Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

62vetteefp

What is scaring you about the Enclave?

A Tahoe with more room in the back and a 3rd seat is called a Suburban!!

carnutpa

I must say that I am really liking the Enclave so far. My biggest concern is the ride. I would be trading in a Cadillac DeVille so I am used to, and prefer, the "cushy" ride a Cadillac gives. Every SUV I ever rode in has a stiff truck-like ride. I realize the Enclave is a crossover. Has anyone ridden in one yet or know someone who has? Any insights on this. Will a cadillac owner be happy with a switch to the Enclave?

arumage

It would be great if you love sitting on the floor. The lack of independent rear suspension puts that 3rd row in the Tahoe/Suburban really close to the floor.

arumage

Since all the new crossovers are equipped with independent rear suspension and ride on modified car-based frames, they should be pretty nice. I don't know if they'll be a cushy as a DeVille, but I guess you'd have to decide if the extra room and versatility makes a crossover a fair trade.

62vetteefp

I have been told by those who know that the ride is simply amazing. Very car like.

I doubt it will be as "cushy" as a DeVille because that type of ride has been labeled "not like the imports" and therefore it must be bad. Sorry to say that but that is what has happened. The media has convinced the public, and therefore the domestics, that tight handling is more important than a plush ride.

That being said I would imagine that of all the CUV/SUV's out there the Enclave will be closest to what you are looking for in ride characteristics. It will not be cushy like a DeVille but will be closest to a great ride out there.

62vetteefp

3rd row in most trucks are only good for kids which is alright for 90% of buyers since they are buying them for kid transportation or not transporting anyone in the 3rd row.

Yuu are right and the Enclave, being based on a platform like a minivan, will have a nice flat load floor and hig seat cushions.

arumage

Personally, I'm really looking for that minivan-like versatility because, on occasion, it's nice to be able to transport a larger group of adults somewhere without taking two vehicles to save on gas and for convenience. That being said, the main reason for the purchase is kid related anyway, but these new crossovers seem to be able to do it all... in style. Since I don't really tow anything over 3500lbs. or feel the urge to go to far off the beaten path, a truck based SUV would be completely unnecessary and relatively uncomfortable.

jd14

You're being generous by saying that the 3rd row in most trucks are only good for kids. Have any of you ever tried to sit in the third row of an Escalade/Yukon/Tahoe? I tried the third row in an 06 Escalade and had trouble getting out(my knees were jammed into the back of the second row seats extremely tightly and my back was plastered to the seat cushion). And arumage, you're exactly right about practically sitting on the floor. Then again, the floor is probably softer than those third row seats...

arumage

My in-laws have a 2003 Tahoe, which they love, but they just removed their 3rd row seat because it is useless. They also have a 2002 Explorer. If we ever need to seat 7, we just take it. Despite it being smaller overall, the independent rear suspension allow the floor to drop so my legs aren't stuck up by my chest.

hardhawk

I need to be able to tow 5000#, so wish the Enclave or Acadia had just a tad more towing ability. My Envoy has worked great for 5 years, but has no 3rd row. I don't want a Suburban or Yukon XL due to the size, but the standard Tahoe and Yukon 3rd seats are useless. I realize that a unibody vehicle does not have the frame to tow big weight, but I wish it did. If there would tow 5000# they would be perfect for my family. Saw the Enclave concept at the 2006 Chicago Auto show and it was just stunning. I like the new Mercedes GL SUV, which will tow enough and has a good 3rd row seat, but the price and mileage are not as competitive as the Enclave and Acadia. Maybe I just need to find a good used crew cab pickup to tow and get the Enclave or Acadia for daily use.

wlbrown9

I have yet to see or ride in the Enclave/Acadia. But we have a 2004 Envoy XL. It is a truck based SUV and has a really cushy ride. So, if they can get that to ride really good, I would expect the crossovers to be even better.

62vetteefp

Only the press has driven the triplets and they are under rules to not say anything yet. They will drive (ride and handling) like cars, not like the Envoy.

62vetteefp

Sure you cannot get away with 4500#? Probably get away with it if you are close.

hardhawk

My Envoy is rated at 6000# and I would not want to be towing any more than the 5000# with it. So, there is no way I would go with the 4500# to pull my boat. Nice thought though! Maybe when they bring out the V8 Enclave a year later that will be able to tow what I need.

albook

-okay Lambdas may weigh more but that's what you may have to comprimise for 118 cubic feet of space- which is humongous!- and a real third row. there's no way CX-9's is as spacious. The only other way to go for these numbers is suburban, expedition, or the m word- minivan! and doing the # crunching, weight to power isn't that bad. about 18 pounds per hores power (pilot-17, pacifica-19)though could use 15 more. What i want to know is when can I get one? just read car and driver saying This Month? My guess- before next year.

62vetteefp

In the dealers mid to late November.

arumage

The only thing I could recommend for third seat room and your towing is a V8 Explorer. Since it has independent rear suspension, the third row is not bad at all, and I believe it will tow over 7,000lbs. I doubt a V8 Enclave will bring much more to the table. Towing is more about the transmission and frame than the engine.

arumage

The CX-9 has a little over 100 cubic feet of space. It is a little over an inch shorter and two inches narrower. Most of the space gain comes from the longer wheelbase of the Lambdas (113 vs. 118). The CX-9 also comes in at just over 16 pounds per horsepower even though it has four less horsepower than the Lambdas. I guess I just haven't gotten over my experience with GM products (1995 Oldmsobile Cutlass Supreme) even though these do look pretty good on paper. They are beating Mazda to the table though. It won't be available until January.

hardhawk

"Towing is more about the transmission and frame than the engine."

Very true. My 340 HP Dodge Magnum has the engine to tow my boat, but not the frame. The Explorer would do it, but it pales in comparison to the Enclave or Acadia in the style department. I am thinking a used crew cab pickup for towing use only might be the answer. If the towing need is out of the picture, then a lot more options open up.

pig

Did your buddies tell you which one(s) would be a mid-late
November ETA or is this for all three Lambdas. Mostly interested in the Outlook/Acadia arrivals myself.

Kirstie_H

A reporter from a large local newspaper seeks speak to new Saturn buyers and why they purchased the Saturn vehicle. Please provide your daytime contact info to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, September 28, 2006.

62vetteefp

Outlook/Acadia. Enclave is next year.

arumage

Most heavier haulers have a pretty beefy frame, which would add a lot more weight to the Lambda's. They also have features to cool the transmission and fairly low gear ratios.

That's definitely true about the Explorer's style. Ford is looking to move the Explorer in a different direction very soon. When their new 3-row crossover comes out (2008?), the Explorer is supposed to become more off-road oriented, possibly like a bigger version Toyota's FJ.

wlbrown9

Yep. I think the Lambada WITHOUT the tow package is only rated at 2000 lbs or so, with the tow package it goes up to 4500 lbs. That probably included a trany cooler, not sure what else besides the light hookups and receiver.

albook

Quick question- does any one know if third row seats recline in lamdas? This would be nice considering all the room being 3rd row!!- but no one else does it. :confuse:

albook

I think that I would rather go for a Chrysler Aspen, then the benz because though it ain't no mercedes (not as nice ride) it has more space, looks nice and tows nearly 9000 pounds. And I bet it matches benz feature for feature and everyone says it does ride nice. it has a hemi w/ as much power. And it offers captains chairs- my favorite!

arumage

That Hemi in the Aspen costs you to the tune of 14/19mpg. The 2007 Ford Expedition is cheaper and can tow up to 9200lbs. properly equipped, but gas mileage is rated the same. It's also faster (not that it matters in a vehicle like this). The 6-speed auto has done wonders for the 5.4L V8.

albook

Actually, the Aspen gets 15/20 in the rwd and 14/20 in the awd- which isn't bad for this size vehicle. The expedition is cheaper but you don't get as much as in chrysler, and that thing is humongous. gas in ford is like 12 and 16 realworld, and horsepower is 35 less. i wouldn't think it's faster either, considering (this is estimation) 400 pounds heavier.

07xle

Actually, the Aspen gets 15/20 in the rwd and 14/20 in the awd- which isn't bad for this size vehicle.

No, the Aspen Limited 4x2 gets 14/19 and the 4x4 gets 14/18 according to the Chrysler Aspen site.

pig

So...if Chrysler Aspen site says "14/19", then that must really mean 12/17mpg in normal driving...at best.

dtd07

use the like below.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/29/video-buick-enclave-in-the-wild/

:shades:

albook

No, the Aspen Limited 4x2 gets 14/19 and the 4x4 gets 14/18 according to the Chrysler Aspen site
- actually 4x2 gets 14 and 20, and 4x4 gets 14 and 19

07xle

Depends on the engine.

There is no 14/20!!!!!

4.7-Liter SOHC V 8 Engine
4x2 235 hp 14 city /19 hwy

4x4 210 hp 14 city /18 hwy

5.7L HEMI® Magnum® V8
4x2 335 hp 15 city / 20 hwy

4x4 335 hp 14 city / 19 hwy

Case closed!!!!

pig

Let's not raise our blood pressures over eroneous/BS mpg figures presented by manufacturers/EPA. Get your figures from Auto Consumer Guide or else where as realistic tests (normal driving)almost always indicates mpg 2-4 mpgs less.

So...there's really no 'actually' without actualities.

arumage

Actually, Motor trend recorded 18mpg real world (mixed driving) in the Expedition EL while only recording 15mpg in a Suburban. And according to 0-60 numbers it is 1 tenth quicker. The extra gear (6-speed vs. 5-speed) in the transmission helps alot. Motor Trend recorded a 0-60 time of 8.4 seconds for an Expedition EL. The only time for the Aspen I could find was 8.5 seconds despite it's 400lb. weight advantage. The Expedition is also longer (4 in.) and wider (2.5 in.). Gas mileage for the Chrysler looks like it's 14/20 rwd and 14/19 awd.

albook

15 and 20? 14 and 19? that's exactly what I just said!!! And I will give it to expedition for good numbers. But I want to see what MT will get in an Aspen. Saw commercial today. Truck looks Awesome! IMnotsoHO (just kidding). does anyone know if 3rd row in Acadia reclines? Guesses?

arumage

Not 15/20, 14/20. I'll give you that the Aspen is a bit better looking and plenty capable, but the Expendition is bigger, cheaper, and just as capable if not more so. Anyway, it's not really important to this thread.

It would be awesome if any of the Lambda's had a recling 3rd row. I think that would be a first in the class.

62vetteefp

I guess I wonder why anyone would offer reclining 3rd row? Just seems like the only ones who would ever use it would be kids and most parents would not pay for that feature just for kids! I know I sure wouldn't.

arumage

I would probably be using more for adults than kids, atleast until they got old enough to really go back there. It would be for short trips only anyway. It just seems like a cool feature to have. I guess its the same reason people are impressed by 17 cup holders even though you would never need more cup holders than you have seats.

pig

Wow! Looks like this forum is running out of material to discuss...with the intense debate on the Aspen and fantisizing about reclining 3rd row seats...I certainly can't wait for GMs new puppies to show up so there can be some real experiences/information to digest and evaluate.

62vetteefp

Actually I like two cup holders for me when traveling. One for the full one and one for the empty!

Which adults would be sitting back there when you were carrying kids? I guess grandma and grandpa? Even then it would probably not be that often?

62vetteefp

Well, Buick is supposed to have a major appearance at the SEMA show. (Specialties Equipment Manufacturers Association) Probably be a LaCrosse and Lucerne Super and a "show car" Enclave or two. Perhaps even a Enclave Super.

dmathews3

go over to the 07 Camry site they are crying bucket fulls of tears. Looks like Toyota is getting to big for its britches and going to do what GM did way back in the 80' when they couldn't build them fast enough. Let the customer be the inspector and get it fixed on his time. :P

redshoe9

Will the 2nd row seats be captains chairs- some pictures show them as such but then some don't. I prefer captains chairs vs bench.

What current CUV's or SUV's (midsize) have 2nd row captains chairs? :confuse:

62vetteefp

Will the 2nd row seats be captains chairs- some pictures show them as such but then some don't. I prefer captains chairs vs bench.

available both ways.

albook

You guys seriously need to stop.15/20,14/20,14/19(I've said all 3!) It's somewhere in those numbers. You guys don''t seem to be agreeing, so lets just go to the chrysler site and leave it at that. And I still don't think with what you get for the price expidition is better buy than Aspen. After driving durango and expidition I found Durango to have better handling too. But like you said-doesn't really matter. Today I was crunching #'s and found Acadia to have about 17pounds per horsepower (about the same as an acura MDX of '06. what I really love about this truck- It's the only crossover in segment to offer 2nd row captains captains chairs. When traveling, this is an A+. Those who do say Why do these things have third rows? should be looking at RX330. These are family vehicles.

pig

Enclave Super...new term for me. When said, "show up", I really meant at the dealerships. But the SEMA exhibit could at least give us some new 'forum fuel' for the meantime and help this group get back on track until dealer arrivals.
When is SEMA?

62vetteefp

It used to be somewhere the little guys went to show off their wares (wheel cover spinners, dice, etc.) that has turned into a huge show that shows off everything car related. HUGE!!

Now many OEM's bring their cars "blinged", "hopped", whatever the term is to show off something.

The Supers are the performance versions of Buick.

avery1

Hope GM includes this.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6278/

arumage

The Acadia is not the only one with 2nd row captain's chairs. The Pacifica also offers captain's chairs in the 2nd row with a center console. The Pacifica seems a bit smaller for being nearly 200 inches long though, and the current engine doesn't have enough low end torque to really get all that weight going.