plastic body panels are soon to be gone. too many issues. Because of plastic expansion large gaps are needed between panels which is just not acceptable in todays cars.
Hey- give Suzuki a chance. They are coming up- like Huyndai. And I think I would buy new XL-7 before the Vera Cruz. but of course I kinda like the Pontiac Torrent (except for the little engine). So I guess all that stuff about a Chevy Lamda was just Motortrend crap. Theyed be better off with a reworked (not rebadged! no more pontiac G5!) XL7. Pontiac probably needs something of the sort too. that Montna thing isn't working. But hopefully there will be a Saab lambda. I really think that would look great!
No Pontiac Lamda or Montana in the future!! Probably not a Pontiac Torrent either. With GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealerships look to see more rationalization. Probably will not see a replacement Enclave 5 years from now unless it really sells well. The have the GMC Acadia in the same dealership. then again if the Enclave sells well they may drop hte GMC crossover Acadia and let GMC only build "real" trucks on frames.
If GMC sticks with "real" trucks then perhaps the next Torrent will be much more performance orinted?
I'm not bashing the Suzuki. I actually like the look alot. It's just that they haven't ironed out most of their quality issues quite yet. They are still ranking pretty low. Hyundai is #3 in initial quality. I'd still buy the Veracruz unless it just wasn't in the budget, but Hyundai is moving way upmarket with this crossover. You should see some of the options that are available for the Korean model. It's pretty Lexus like.
Since the Veracruz was brought up, here are some initial specs. The body related things won't change, but they may still change some of these hp/torque numbers by the time of US release.
Saw MB R500 commercial today. Said it has some system to keep dirt out of cabin. Now wondering will Lamdas get crazy feats. like this too? I know it will have sound deadening technology. But hopefully there's much more. I need to know this is a step over old car. I can't wait. one bad thing is that i know these things will sell hot from the factory, so I'll probably end up paying nearly full price. But that's what comes with the family car of yor dreams. And i really can't wait till like march. :sick:
Some of those crazy features keep Mercedes below the norm in dependability studies. I think you might be better off letting Mercedes get all the bugs out before you put it in one of the Lamda's.
I'd say getting a good deal will all depend on the volume of your dealer. A dealer that sells a larger volume of cars will probably give you a better deal because he/she (being politically correct ) is more likely to get more of them. Smaller dealers in a smaller city may hold out for closer to MSRP because he/she knows you will have to go out of your way to get a better deal.
Most GM vehicles have a particle filter system. Some can filter out small enough particles to keep out allergans. Been around a long time. Not sure what MB is touting.
In My local paper, both Audi Q7 and Acura MDX were in spotlight in same weekend. The guy loved Q7 but wasn't the most enthusiastic about MDX. What do you guys think. I say theres' no competition!!! MDX has bolder styling- styling no one has on the streets (yet) and more luxury, better performance, and better interior space. Since it's nearly a foot shorter, it fits much better into parking spaces. And above all price is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy better! He tested loaded Q7 at 67 g's. MDX was nearly 20 grand less at 48 loaded. tell me what you guys think.
Careful: you have to compare apples to apples: the MDX is a 6-cylinder SUV, while the Q7 can come in a 8-cylinder variation. For $67k, as you mention, you are looking at the Premium 8 cylinder version of the Q7, so you're not comparing the two correctly.
Anyhow, the base price for the Q7 (with 6 cylinders) is $39k, which is the same as the MDX. Once you start loading that one up, you get to the same prices as the MDX, maybe even a little less.
One advantage of the Q7 is the fact that you get to choose from numerous options, vs. the MDX that forces you to get a rear DVD system if you want a power liftgate, for example. Dumb. A big disadvantage of the Q7 is reliability...but then again, with all the new technology in the MDX, we'll have to see if that starts breaking too!
Just went and checked out both the Q7 3.6 6cyl & the MDX. After getting some options on the Q7, it came to 56K, which seemed like a lot of money compared to other vehicles. Anyone interested in a Q7 may want to check closely into how the front seat is set up. I am 6' and in positioning the seat as I would find comfortable I found the seat track caught my shoe as I tried to get out. The seat is built up on a platform. I think this would be even worse if I were dressed for work & my pantsleg would get snagged on something like this. Some may find this trivial but all it takes is one time. I would highly suggest checking on this prior to purchase. We currently have a Lexus RX where I do not have this problem, but in looking for another vehicle this problem seems to be in most European vehicles, i.e., the X3, X5, Cayenne, and now the Q7. So as a reminder, from experience, how you are dressed when test driving and how you are dressed 90% of the time when actually driving needs to be taken into consideration.
You must have been looking at the 3.6L "Premium", which commands a starting price of about $45k, if I recall. Not sure what differences are between the base and premium trims.
The Audi is way too heavy, imo. You probably need the 8-cylinder just to keep up with the rest of the SUVs out there. That's why I'm waiting for the Acadia/Enclave to come out...you don't have to pay the premium price just to have Audi or Acura stamped on the hood, while getting all the same ammenities as the so-called premium SUVs.
Thanx for your view on the Suzuki/XL7...It is way down the totem pole and only a remote contingency if the Lambdas keep coming out with continued declining news concerning it's real value per/$. Though the value may not be terrible...it keeps moving father away from the info given months ago on what you were going to be able to purchase in the mid $20s.
The XL-7 is not down the list due to reliability however, as it is a stretched GM design and read that it was built in the Torrent/Eclipes plant in Canada.
Have no recall of dicussing MDXs...However, very courious about what Audi has 144cu/ft of cargo area. Is it a delivery truck, as I am racking my brain on a passenger Audi that may even have 144 cu/ft of interior space, though I'm not overly familiar with Audis. Is it something very new?
That figure for the Q7 is for the entire cabin space. There is only 88 cu. ft. behind the first row. Still, the Acura is a bit smaller.
The Q7 is also a fatty at nearly 5000 lbs (nearly 5300lbs with the V8). The Acura has 20 more hp at the base model and weighs about 500lbs less. It also gets 2 mpg better (Audi V6 16/20 V8 14/19). The Q7 is pretty sweet looking though.
Both of these make any of the Lamdas look very well priced and huge by comparison.
I agree. I think the host here is off sleeping somewhere. I made a couple comments on the Cammry board and got a email from the host saying to only discuss Camry. :mad:
THe Mdx and Q7 are so competitors. It's just a matter of comparing V6 to V6. And since there only 50 hp apart (300 vs 350) why not? everything else applies. Was looking at Acadia today. All that boby cladding is giving me a wierd feeling. I was liking tha abscense of it on the Saturn. Then again, I've seen neither in person.
Hey- don't bash Acura's packaging. For those who want everything, it's great. first of all, youre paying way less than competitors, and secondly, why would you want a power lift gate so bad? that's just extra.
They might be competitors but some of the emails here are not talking about these cars in a competitive tone against the GM group offerings. Some users (please do not take any offence) are just prattling on about these vehicles with not a single mention of the Enclave, Outlook or Acadia.
I do not mind mention of competitor cars, but when you do, please weigh the discussion towards pros and cons against the GM trio.
I for one own a Freestyle - a decent enough vehicle in what it does - and I could wittle on about why people do not consider this car, but I won't for now. I will be keen to compare it against the Acadia when I can finally get to see one. But I will keep that discussion to a later date...
Not sure where I read it, but it's supposed to be announced sometime tomorrow. My guess is that it will be about two to three thousand cheaper than the Acadia on all levels. After tomorrow, we've got two down and one more to go. Information on the Enclave pricing will most likely be announced around the time of the LA autoshow, late November.
What I like about the Lambdas is that it appears that you will get a wide range of options, not just 3 bundled packages that force you to spend more than you want. Example: in the MDX, you can't get the rear DVD system by itself...nope, you have to get the tech or sports package along with it.
This is why I'm holding off until I see the production Enclave, which, by the way, should be "way less" than the MDX for similar luxury (and the Q7 base V6 is actually the same price as the MDX).
Thats one of the reasons I plan on buying the Acadia, because it offers a power lift gate. If you ever had to carry allot of stuff and needed to open a trunk or lift gate you can really appreciate the feature. You would be crazy to speak bad of this feature.
This seems to be a must have option on all the new crossovers, especially if you have young kids. I guess that's why all the new models are going to have it (Lamdas, CX-9, Veracruz).
Chill out. We don't monitor the discussions 24/7. You're right... we DO sleep sometimes as we're not auto-bots.
Let's stick to the vehicles in the discussion title - if you want to open a comparisons topic, then by all means, do so! We'd certianly welcome it.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Similarly we have remote start on our Freestyle (you can start it up to 500 feet away. A truely great feature and once you have had it you'd wonder how you managed without it.
I hope that the Acadia has remote start as an option (or even standard).
You realize you can get minvians and other suvs with this option. I still don't think it's that great. If it comes with the package, that's nice. But no way I'd pay more for it. just one more thing to get repaired when it get's stuck. What's so hard about pulling door up?
This Forum is like the hottest one on edmunds right now. It grows so much everyday!
Was actually thinking about a Saturn SUV. I for one don't like the idea of them of tagging the Saturn with the GMC and Buick. It's so unoriginal. It's as bad as when I was at the car show looking at a Saturn Relay a few years ago. I thought it was cool. But I mistakely thought it had the plastic doors which I liked very much on the Saturns. But the Sales person said oh they dropped those because it cost to much for Saturn. That was so lame I never looked at another Saturn. It's one thing to get rid of something because it doesn't work right. It's another to get rid of something because it "COST TO MUCH". Thats what made Saturn Unique.
They did not get rid of the plastic because "COST TOO MUCH". Plastic panels do not make it in this quality age because it expands and contracts with temperature and humidity. Wide gaps are needed to make sure panels do not interfere. Wide gaps make a car look like bad quality.
I think this pretty much settles it for me - if I go with a Lambda, it will be the Acadia. Prices look pretty similar between the Acadia and Outlook, but you can use GM Card earnings and negotiate on the Acadia. Too bad, because I like the look of the Outlook a little better (but not that much better )
According to the post that had options pricing, my fully loaded Outlook came in at a solid $42k. The Enclave will probably be close to this price too since you can haggle with the dealer and get cash back incentives. Although 40k+ seems like a lot of money for a vehicle, it's a steal compared to some of the competition (GL450, R500, Escalade, QX56, etc.)
Another issue with the plastic panels is that they cannot be painted along with the metal body of the vehicle: temperatures are just too hot, so they are painted separately in a cooler oven.
I'm not sure the whole expansion/contraction thing is absolutely correct: bumpers are made of plastic, and gaps are very, very small between them and the metal body.
Here goes GM once more. Same product three badges. Why have three products? When will GM design a product and make it exclusive to one division? The product looks great, I just wish there it wasn't spread over three divisions. Maybe GM actually believes their own slogan. "Because we can."
Personally, I can't see why this bad. The Enclave is clearly in a different league than the other two, with a much more upscale interior and completely different exterior look. The other two are fairly similar, but what's wrong with being given a choice between two looks?
Bumpers are super flexible and stretch to the shape needed. they are bolted to the next panel and flex to the edge. They are also made of a different type of plastic.
Here goes GM once more. Same product three badges. Why have three products? When will GM design a product and make it exclusive to one division? The product looks great, I just wish there it wasn't spread over three divisions. Maybe GM actually believes their own slogan. "Because we can."
It's called Sales and Marketing 101.
and Profits if they can cover their cost of production.
They have 3 products to maximize profit and support their huge dealership network. GM still sells the most vehicles in the US and one big reason is because they have multiple divisions. The issue they have had until recently is that their car products were not that great. Niche marketing is the future and GM is ready for it. Now that the car products are better they will kick up a storm.
These are not the old GM style rebadges. These 3 crossovers have distinctive body kits now. It's a good thing that it's the same platform. It saves GM a lot of money.
Honda and Toyota share platforms amongst their very different looking models very profitably. Nissan and Volkswagen do it somewhat less profitably.
Back to the cars--I think the Enclave shown at the auto show was gorgeous. I will go to my dealer's lot and look at one when they are available.
There was a message that compared a loaded Acadia/Outlook to a Tahoe and said why buy the Lamda when the Tahoe is the same price. ( I think it was deleted)
Has anyone done a real content comparison between the two? With a quick perusal it looks like you can put a bunch more content/features on a Lamda and is one reason why the price can get so high.
200 posts, but I have not seen anyone ask this (or, I am just illiterate and can't see the forest for the Lambdas)...
I am trying to visualize the size of the Acadia...I like the size of the Explorer as the ideal midsize SUV, yet I see comparisons with Tahoe, which, to me, is quite large, and also with Veracruz whcih, I believe, is smaller than Explorer...
Can anyone give me an equivalent so I can imagine the size, and, I am kinda asking to compare it in features (briefly) and size to the Explorer...I can see that a 270 HP V6 would probably compete with Ford's 292 HP V8 in the Expy, unless the Acadia weighs 1000 pounds more...
It is about the size of the 5 passenger Tahoe with 8 passenger capability. Much more efficient interior space usage though. Acadia is a large vehicle! Do not know the length of the Veracruz but it will be smaller.
The Acadia is big. It is about 8-9 inches longer than an Explorer. It is heavy for a crossover but lighter than the Explorer, mostly because the Explorer is a body-on-frame vehicle. It gets 3/5mpg better than the explorer but tows about 2,700 lbs less. Performance numbers are probably negligible. Price is also negligible for a V8 equipped Explorer with similar options to a base Acadia.
I would say that if you need a people mover and need light duty towing the Acadia is what you want. If you need something a bit heavier duty for heavier towing and "real" offroading, the Explorer may be a better choice.
Comments
I have a GMC dealer just a 100 yards from where I work. I'll walk down and I will take a look as soon as they come out...
If GMC sticks with "real" trucks then perhaps the next Torrent will be much more performance orinted?
Max. Horsepower, international/metric HP RPM (3.8): 260/264 6000
Max. Torque, lb.-ft. RPM (3.8): 257 4500
Height, with/without roof rack (in.): 71.1/68.9
Overhang, front/rear (in.): 38.0/42.1
Wheelbase (in.): 110.4
Overall Length (in.): 190.6
Width (in.): 77.6
Track, front/rear (in.): 65.7/65.7
Curb Weight, 3.8 2WD/4WD (lbs.): 4162/NL
Turning Diameter (ft.): 36.7
Drag Coefficient (cd): 0.35
Ground Clearance (in.): 8.1
Approach Angle (degrees): 24.8
Departure Angle (degrees): 22.7
Ramp Breakover Angle (degrees): 17.9
SAE Cargo Volume, 2nd row seats up/folded (cu.ft): 40.0/86.8
I'd say getting a good deal will all depend on the volume of your dealer. A dealer that sells a larger volume of cars will probably give you a better deal because he/she (being politically correct
Anyhow, the base price for the Q7 (with 6 cylinders) is $39k, which is the same as the MDX. Once you start loading that one up, you get to the same prices as the MDX, maybe even a little less.
One advantage of the Q7 is the fact that you get to choose from numerous options, vs. the MDX that forces you to get a rear DVD system if you want a power liftgate, for example. Dumb. A big disadvantage of the Q7 is reliability...but then again, with all the new technology in the MDX, we'll have to see if that starts breaking too!
Some may find this trivial but all it takes is one time. I would highly suggest checking on this prior to purchase. We currently have a Lexus RX where I do not have this problem, but in looking for another vehicle this problem seems to be in most European vehicles, i.e., the X3, X5, Cayenne, and now the Q7. So as a reminder, from experience, how you are dressed when test driving and how you are dressed 90% of the time when actually driving needs to be taken into consideration.
The Audi is way too heavy, imo. You probably need the 8-cylinder just to keep up with the rest of the SUVs out there. That's why I'm waiting for the Acadia/Enclave to come out...you don't have to pay the premium price just to have Audi or Acura stamped on the hood, while getting all the same ammenities as the so-called premium SUVs.
in the mid $20s.
The XL-7 is not down the list due to reliability however,
as it is a stretched GM design and read that it was built in the Torrent/Eclipes plant in Canada.
about what Audi has 144cu/ft of cargo area. Is it a delivery truck, as I am racking my brain on a passenger Audi that may even have 144 cu/ft of interior space, though I'm not overly familiar with Audis. Is it something very new?
If you want to talk about MDXs, Q7s and the like please take it to those forums.
Thank you.
The Q7 is also a fatty at nearly 5000 lbs (nearly 5300lbs with the V8). The Acura has 20 more hp at the base model and weighs about 500lbs less. It also gets 2 mpg better (Audi V6 16/20 V8 14/19). The Q7 is pretty sweet looking though.
Both of these make any of the Lamdas look very well priced and huge by comparison.
Hey- don't bash Acura's packaging. For those who want everything, it's great. first of all, youre paying way less than competitors, and secondly, why would you want a power lift gate so bad? that's just extra.
I do not mind mention of competitor cars, but when you do, please weigh the discussion towards pros and cons against the GM trio.
I for one own a Freestyle - a decent enough vehicle in what it does - and I could wittle on about why people do not consider this car, but I won't for now. I will be keen to compare it against the Acadia when I can finally get to see one. But I will keep that discussion to a later date...
around. So, don't hold your breath.
However, comparing similar 'new',or even like existing
SUVs/CUVs, tooo theee Lambdas is legit for this Forum
This is why I'm holding off until I see the production Enclave, which, by the way, should be "way less" than the MDX for similar luxury (and the Q7 base V6 is actually the same price as the MDX).
Let's stick to the vehicles in the discussion title - if you want to open a comparisons topic, then by all means, do so! We'd certianly welcome it.
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Review your vehicle
I hope that the Acadia has remote start as an option (or even standard).
On the Outlook it is available on all models.
This Forum is like the hottest one on edmunds right now. It grows so much everyday!
I'm not sure the whole expansion/contraction thing is absolutely correct: bumpers are made of plastic, and gaps are very, very small between them and the metal body.
It's called Sales and Marketing 101.
and Profits if they can cover their cost of production.
Lets keep to the subject at hand!
Honda and Toyota share platforms amongst their very different looking models very profitably. Nissan and Volkswagen do it somewhat less profitably.
Back to the cars--I think the Enclave shown at the auto show was gorgeous. I will go to my dealer's lot and look at one when they are available.
Has anyone done a real content comparison between the two? With a quick perusal it looks like you can put a bunch more content/features on a Lamda and is one reason why the price can get so high.
I am trying to visualize the size of the Acadia...I like the size of the Explorer as the ideal midsize SUV, yet I see comparisons with Tahoe, which, to me, is quite large, and also with Veracruz whcih, I believe, is smaller than Explorer...
Can anyone give me an equivalent so I can imagine the size, and, I am kinda asking to compare it in features (briefly) and size to the Explorer...I can see that a 270 HP V6 would probably compete with Ford's 292 HP V8 in the Expy, unless the Acadia weighs 1000 pounds more...
Thanks...
..........Acadia.....Tahoe.....Explorer...Santa Fe...MDX
Length......201......198.8......193.3......184.1....190.7
Height......72.8......76.7.......72.8.......67.9.....65.9
Width.......78.9......78.8.......73.7.......74.4.....78.5
I would say that if you need a people mover and need light duty towing the Acadia is what you want. If you need something a bit heavier duty for heavier towing and "real" offroading, the Explorer may be a better choice.
To add to 62vetteefp's comparison list:
-----------CX-9----Veracruz----Pilot
Length-199.8---190.7-------188
Height-68.1-----68.9--------70.1
Width--76.2-----77.6--------77.5