Is there a moderator? Host? Should someone screen posts for appropriateness? Yup, but we're not around 24 hours a day, and we hope for some self-regulation (or an e-mail alert if needed). Some inappropriate post have been removed - let's stick to talking about the vehicles mentioned in the discussion title, and definitely veer away from talking about each other.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Freestyle has more 2nd row legroom (36.9" vs 40.2") and about the same cargo space behind the 3rd row. Outlook's seat should be adjustable for more second row leg room. And I don't really think there's 19 cu. ft. of cargo space behing freestyle third row. And Third row leg room is a little bit less (like inch in a half). But that's because Freestyle is a station wagon (not tall). Ford should buld an extended edge of CX9 platform (it allready is but make it mazda lenth) to accomidate third row. This would look nice and sell way better than Freestyle ( which as many say is "style free"). On another note- Sema show already? usually not till right before THanksgiving. THis one's really early.
Look on any website and you'll find third row legroom for the Freestyle to be 33.3" and the Acadia 33.2" The Acadia is 700lbs heavier and 4" taller and 3" wider than the Freestyle. To me, that's an SUV, not a crossover.
SUV is Sports Utility Vehicle. That means off road/towing capacity. It means body on frame. Nothing to do with size. The smaller Trailblazer is also an SUV.
crossover is a hybrid of car and SUV in this case. Unibody with SUV styling. If anything it is a cross between a minivan and SUV.
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet."
If I recall correctly (and I do), all minivans used to be body on frame and RWD as well. BTW, the Trailblazer is a unibody vehicle so it really doesn't meat your criteria as an SUV.
Just like the minivan, the term SUV has been and will continue to be defined and redefined.
Agreed...sounds like someone out there is trying to salvage a mistake they made by buying a Freestyle and there is not much to salvage. My heart goes out to them. As I've said before...I can drive ugly if I really have to...I've driven ugly for 10 years now and I'm tired of driving ugly; plus no one is going talk me into driving ugly and I'm not going to drive ugly anymore!
That's not exactly what I was saying. I don't think that they Freestyle is ugly at all. It's just not exciting. It's good, reliable, fuel efficient transportation for 7. It's also alot cheaper and safer than the Acadia, but without the impressive exterior or powertrain, it doesn't attract alot of buyers.
What I was really saying is that nobody really knows what an SUV is defined as because it keeps changing, dropping super offroad power for towing and size. I think the word crossover was created for those who feel subconcious about driving an SUV.
All of this off-topic discussion is going to make hondaford very mad!
I think I was mistaken about the Trailblazer being unibody, maybe that's the reason it sucks down gas like Kobayashi eats hotdogs. The Honda Ridgeline combines a ladder frame with unibody.
1988 Ford Aerostar based on the Ford Ranger chassis (My first vehicle when I turned 16). The Chevy Astro of that time was also based on a truck frame.
The term crossover is for those who don't want the stigma (or need) of driving a minivan, nor the stigma (or need) of driving a huge SUV. I guess in those terms, a vehicle like the Acadia/Outlook would count, because they're not designed for the heavy towing or offroading of an SUV, nor do they have the passenger space of a minivan, but they're somewhere in between.
In the meantime, I'll continue to drive my "ugly" :P Freestyle, which so far has over 40,000 trouble free miles, gets 26mpg on the highway, is very quiet inside, has all the power I need, has great legroom for all three rows and good cargo space, tri-level climate control, outstanding safety ratings, a driving position that isn't too high that you need a ladder, but isn't too low like a standard car, and had all this two years prior to this new group of crossovers (CX-9, Acadia, Outlook, etc) that are just now, and I only paid $24,000 for mine. I consider the Freestyle a crossover just because when you look at it, you never know what to call it...big station wagon car or SUV or even minivan without sliding doors...hence a crossover.
By the way, I'm sorry you've been driving an ugly vehicle for 10 years. But soon you can buy the Acadia and after 10 years, instead of complaining of how you've been driving an ugly car, you can complain about how you've been driving an attractive by unreliable GM :P Just kidding, I'm sure this will be a very reliable vehicle, and I drive a Freestyle so what do I know, right! But so far zero problems. And I've never heard the Freestyle called "ugly" before...plain, but not ugly, but plain is okay to me, since on my list of car priorities, trendy exterior styling is low on my list.
The Trailblazer has a FULL frame under it and always has. One of the reasons it is going away in a couple years since the crossovers have become more popular and I'm guessing a little liter, plus ride better.
The Astro was never considered a "minivan" in the auto world. They were real work vans downsized but with full capability of the huge work horse. When minivans came to be they slowly went away because contractors would rather have a full size van no matter what the fuel savings.
the Lamdas are prety darn close if not the same in inside hauling capability.
Thanx for you indepth analysis, considering you just found out what a Lambda vehicle was, just this week while working it over. I may not even go for a Lambda choice, but presently prefer it over most others. It appears there is room for guestion on comfort in your stationwagon vs an Outlook and the CUVs don't have issues of climbing in and out like an SUV...unless you happen to be 5'3". I did get into a Freestyle 2 years ago, when I was thinking about getting rid of my 'Ugly', and it did feel very stationwagony and I needed a bit more than the 200hp than was offered, plus prefered a larger cargo bay . And I think Muranos/Vues/and the Highlanders would question some of your takes on Crossovers...Now the Pilot does fill your billing/interpretation very well however.
I'm sorry you paid 24k for that...but if your happy, your happy. I'm just going to be much happier driving an Outlook or a Veracruz for a very few $1000 more. And spread out over 10 years...that works for me. Annnd I hope no car would give anyone trouble in the 1st 40,000 miles. My Ugly had only a headgasket change/repair job in it's 120,000 mile career so far. So enjoy your Freestyle and lets please move on to for something fresh and positive...like Lambda crossovers and real comparables.
That's not true. The Astro was sold from 1988 to 2005. The APV was not offered until 1990. This was Chevy's first minivan. Ford sold the Aerostar until 1997. The Windstar came along in 1995. It's not that they were never considered a minivan. It's just that the definition of a minivan changed during the time each of these vans were produced. Minivans then were more like the SUVs; whereas, minivans now are more like crossovers.
The Astro was still capable of towing 6,000lbs when properly equipped, but that 3rd row was not a fun place to ride, unless you liked to be bounced.
The Freestyle, Pacifica, and SRX are more like tall wagons to me. Why exactly are you sorry for someone being happy? The Freestyle has the same room available as the Veracruz, is just as safe if not safer, and has most if not all of the same options. So the engine is smaller, oh well, it gets better gas mileage. It really is in the same class as the Lambda's and "real" comparables... and he paid alot less. Styling is a very subjective thing. It depends on how much you think styling is worth.
Agree...But I wonder if vehicle A is 4" taller than vehicle B and they both have the same headroom, then unless the roof is really thick, then I'd think that vehicle A's seat is almost 4" higher than vehicle B. That's what I meant by high step-in height. Plus it's funny when people look strictly at horsepower figures and in their ignornace just assume that hp alone determines real-world available power when driving. The Freestyle is not good for heavy towing, no question there. But if you don't need to tow a lot and you don't need space for 8 passengers, then the Freestyle is a CUV option. On the other hand, if you really need space for 8 adults, then you'd want to go with a Sienna anyway, which has a lot more interior space than any of these CUVs and comes in AWD. I don't imagine everyone looking at buying an Outlook I wonder what the "Ugly" vehicle really was?
I'm liking alot about the Acadia......BUT...just as most car manufacturers have realized that NAV is a good option, they have also realized that "bluetooth" is a good idea as well.....What about bluetooth on the Acadia...where is it.....Most everyone else has it......What happened?
Could be...maybe the seats are about 8" thick, but I was just making a comment that a 72" high vehicle probably means you're climbing up to get in. Maybe they should stick a running board on the side of the Acadia?
Looking at downsizing = have had three full load subs = 95/99/03 and thinking the Enclave "best" potential "cross over" out there for 2007 upgrade? Living in Canada requires occasional four wheel traction; still have two kids at home with buds that require occasional 7 passenger seating in "luxury" - last two subs have had buckets and we have 20 hour drive each way to summer home; plus need to launch boat at start/end of summer = wonder if Buick [non-permissible content removed] end high enough to get boat onto trailer out of water?
Hoping that Enclave is early launch 2008 model year. Lost $12,000/year in depreciation on present 03 sub = ouch. Test drove Hylander Hybrid Limited as well as Honda Pilot = looking for slow down in depreciation - nice drive but both, understandably, offered me sweat f.a. for Suburban. Chevy guys hopefully will eat a bit more to see me in their newest product offering (wish me luck).
hard to justify $60,000 purchase price and four years later be offered $12,000 - better off putting $'s into pension plan. . unfortunately 35,000 km/year driving equates to "must do"
I've never been "sorry for someone being happy" in my life..., but I can be sorry for someone who's obviously not happy with what they have and who persistantly tries to push their decision, of a couple of years ago(40,000mi),as a better than or even equal product to this next generation CUVs...which is absolute non-sense. It may get a little better gas milage(1-2mpg), but the Outlook weighs less than 20% more...yet the Outlook has 30%+ more hp for better towing utility, I'm sure...Outlook is 4-5"s wider for more comfort, I'm sure...need I go on and on?
Probably most of us have test driven one of these fords and that is why we are focusing on "this" forum, as Stylefree has been out for a couple of years. Again this Ford has occupied "much" more time on this forum than it ever desirved and we can go to the Freestyle Forum if we want to see how "happy" their owners are, who keep telling each other how happy they are, with all the happy benifits they have equal to or greater than new 2007 CUVs. So, if your happy, your happy and move on to the Forum that wants this continueing happy clammer on the Happy Ford wagon...
I'm sure that will help you in justifying the more the 10-15% difference in price (also the higher cost of operating it). BTW, do you have anything to tow over 2500lbs? If you don't, it's a moot point.
We could go on and on about this so let's just call it quits. I agree the Lambda's are better vehicles overall, but the Freestyle is still a valid competitor even though their looks are rather utilitarian. I think that's what bob is getting at.
Hey Arumage, there are people like him in every forum...sad but true. Funny how defensive some people get just because someone looks at something from a different view. Funny...I never said my Freestyle is better, but I was just pointing out what it had to offer as a smaller CUV that is designed for 7, not 8 passengers, and definitely not for towing. Some people don't necessarily want a vehicle as wide or as tall as the Acadia/Outlook and maybe never do any towing. One vehicle doesn't have to be better or worse than another, only different for different needs. Just like extra hp isn't always better, nor is extra width. You didn't mention the extra height. If someone needs AWD and towing, and 8 passenger capability, then the Outlook might be a good choice. But it's the the "best" CUV in the world.
By the way, you still haven't mentioned what is your "ugly" vehicle you're driving. And if you're so tired of Freestyle being mentioned on this forum, let me point out that I initially was only going to make the single post. But if you want to continue responding with your childish remarks then I'll guess I'll respond. Up to you, but the whole idea of these forums is to give people the opportunity to look at different options, and that's all I'm doing.
That's the problem with subjective opinions like appearance; both sides can argue all day (and in this case all week), with no capitulation.
I agree that it is more than fair to bring up a car like the Freestyle to compare to the Lambdas: they do fall in the same market as alternatives to standard SUVs. It's also fair to bring up questions about styling (after all this is what typically makes or breaks a vehicle) but there also has to be some sensitivity and tact when you start calling other cars "ugly", etc.
I'll say one thing about the Freestyle: if it's anything like the Ford 500, which I have rode in numerous times, then that's not a bad CUV at all. I think the 500 (and Freestyle) are underrated, but then again it's probably Ford's fault for not advertising enough. In fact, I see quite a few Freestyles in my neighborhood (but no 500s...I think those cars have been relegated to the rental /company car market, which it too bad because interior quality is nice, and it rides well).
Agreed...sounds like someone out there is trying to salvage a mistake they made by buying a Freestyle and there is not much to salvage. My heart goes out to them. As I've said before...I can drive ugly if I really have to...I've driven ugly for 10 years now and I'm tired of driving ugly; plus no one is going talk me into driving ugly and I'm not going to drive ugly anymore!
Hey! I own a Freestyle (a loaded Limited AWD) and when we bought it in 2005 is simply was the best vehicle out there at the time for what we wanted: six (true adult sized) person utility, easy to drive, safe, spacious (it passed our stroller test), dual seat memory, tri-zone a/c, remote start and so on. It also was not a minivan which my wife refused to drive, and not a hulking big SUV which we also refused to own. I was a little concerned on the styling at the time but now it has grown on me, it really is not that bad and I can think of a feel modern vehicles with worse styling. I also think its styling will "age" better. So style is in the eye of the beholder. Is it fault free - the perfect vehicle? No, but no vehicle is. Incidentally we tested Pacifica, Pilot, MDX, Outbacks, Highlanders and all other varieties of "cross over" at the time and the Freestyle was simply the best (in May 2005).
Is it still the best? No. The competition has caught up. If I was to buy now I would be actively looking at the Acadia. But that still does not mean the Freestyle is bad. It is still a competitor to these Lambda trio and will only get stronger in 2008 with its restyle and 3.5l engine.
The Freestyle - the most under-rated vehicle on the road today.
I went to an Acura dealer yesterday and sat inside multiple 2007 MDXs. The dealer was closing when I got there though, so I wasn't able to drive one. The salesman assured me that it was far superior to the old model in driving dynamics though, with its new 300hp V-6 that gets 17/22 and its standard SH-AWD. The interior was also great for quality, and the first and second row had adequate legroom. I don't know what got into me...but I tried to sit in the third row for a second to see what could fit back there. BIG MISTAKE! My legs were stuck into the second row seat backs and it took me 3 minutes to get out. I wish they didn't have the third row and just increased the cargo capacity or slid the second row seats farther back...what a shame. Seats felt very comfortable, and I didn't even try the upgraded sport seats with perforated leather. Looks like the Enclave's going to be my next vehicle since its the same price, but has way more room and the adjustable second row buckets-NICE!
jd14, you are so very right. This is the thing that gets me when people mention some of these other "6/7 person" crossovers as being competitors to these lamdba based vehicles. Have they actually sat in them? I suspect not in many cases.
If someone is after a crossover (not a minivan) and wants true 6 or more person seating there really are not many choices. Even the Pacifica, while better than many, is not that great at using the third row. That and the lack of space behind the rear seats is what made us choice the Freestyle over the Pacifica. Now I can not comment on what the new Tahoes and like are like, but that is moving up to the SUV category with all the disadvantages that they have.
This is what will make 2007 interesting. We will finally be getting new vehicles specifically engineered to hold 6 to 8 people on a car based platform to compete with the Pacifica and Freestyle which I would say have led this field unchallenged for the last 2 to 3 years.
Roll on the Outlook, Acadia, Enclave, Veracruz et al...
Agreed...I have been very insensitive to bobw3 and do apologize for being overly zealous to him about my feelings ...exercizing little tolerance and patients. I let the Demon, within, out this week...It happens every once and a while.
Has anyone on this forum driven an Audi Q7 recently? I know it has an adjustable second row seat and I was wondering how varied the second row legroom can get. If someone could tell me how much room there is with the second row pushed all the way back I would greatly appreciate it. Third row legroom doesn't matter much to me.
I'm a single soccer mom who is considering moving from my van to a crossover and have been looking for the past year. I found this forum after looking on other forums that mentioned the arcadia and the outlook. I have test driven the pacifica, highlander, freestyle, and the pilot. I just found out about the cx-7, cx-9, arcadia and the veracruz. cx-7 test drive also was nice, but to small. When arriving on this forum this week, I found a lot of the message titles on the freestyle for 3 pages and the previous page and a half monopolized by pilot message titles. I don't feel other forums have this much distraction though there seems to be some of course. And the last couple of days of scwabbling reminded me of my 2 children yesterday when the 8 year old brought her barbie in to her older brothers room for the umteenth time to show him her doll's new dress, while he was on the computer. He yelled at her and then I yelled at him and then he yelled at me and so on. It pretty much ruined our day. All he had to do was humor her a few times and she would have eventually gone away and this would'nt have ruined a perfectly beautiful day. So, now having to filter through all this mess to try to locate the forums topic information. Is someone in charge? Now I see someone asking a question on an audi q7 and would it not make sense for someone to try to answer the question and also redirect them to an appropriate audi forum where they can get better and more knowledgable info to avoid another 4 1/2 pages dominated by pilot and freestyle stuff. That is my 2 cents worth.
I think it's more useful to talk about a vehicle in comparison to other vehicles, so when someone is looking for a CUV, it seems more useful to say things like "the Acadia tows more than a Freestyle" or "the CX-7 drives like a sports car compared to the Veracruz" or "the Highland is great but the 3rd row is just for kids" or "the Freestyle has more legroom than the Outlook, but the Outlook is wider and has more hiproom and space for 8" and so on.
It's like when you read car reviews in magazines or online. When you're reading a single review, the vehicle they're reviewing always sounds pretty good. But when you're reading a comparison review, that's you really learn something about a vehicle. And just because the reviewer may rate the car #1 for certain reasons, you might like the #3 choice because you're more interested in reliability and saftey, and aren't as concerned about towing and 3rd row passenger space, or you're more interested in performance and handling, while someone else is more concerned with off-road capability. So that's why it's good to hear how the different vehicles compare to each other.
Look, lady... we have posted all the information available on the net for these vehicles. Now, we are comparing similar vehicles to decide the strenghts and weaknesses of the various crossovers. We will continue to compare them with each other because it is beneficial for those looking to find which car would best fit their needs. Additionaly, no new information will come out on any of these vehicles until around Nov. 28th, when the Enclave production model will be publicly introduced at the L.A. autoshow. I'm sorry you feel that the discussion on this board is off topic, but it seems like it's pretty on schedule to me. That is MY 2 cents worth.
I understand comparing vehicles as that would be a primary purpose, but would'nt you gentlemen agree that 4 1/2 pages dominated by pilot/freestyle titled messages could be concidered a little over the top? When I came in, there was so much freestyle information that I had to check which forum I was in. I'm hear to learn about the arcadia, the outlook and also checking out other forums on the other new crossovers. I guess I'm less familiar with the enclave. I was just commenting that there was a bit more clutter between the primary topic and the dominance of info on vehicles that have already been around for a while. I guess you gentlemen have been around for a while, but think about being a new comer comming in very excited to get connected and finding all of this muckity-muck. Also I did'nt know it was quite this intense over here and will keep my thoughts to my self from now on, as my son said those guys really pile on. Farewell-
First fact to learn- GMC version is called the Acadia, not Arcadia. I've already mentioned this to many others on this forum that often make that mistake. This particular forum is centered on the Lambdas, which are a group of three CUVs, the GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook, and Buick Enclave. The Buick is the most expensive, but also the most upscale as far as interior amentities and exterior appearence. I'm sorry you feel that we attacked you, but it is frusturating to see someone new come into this forum and say the quality of the posts is low when they haven't been closely following the discussion. I do understand you're position as a newcomer though, and I think it's sad that you have already decided to never post here again.
FWIW, my $0.02 is that maybe things get off topic a bit because the vehicles are not available yet. You can only rehash speculation so many times. I think on topic discussions will pick up once we see and drive the vehicles. But then again, maybe not.
I understand your frustration. I have been following this board from day 1 and recently I got very fed up with all the talk about the Pilot and so I moaned at the group. Now we are talking about the Freestyle and what do I do? I added a message to the board about the Freestyle!
Why did I do this? Because I actually own one and I believe it to be an actual competitor to the Lambda trio - well the GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook at least.
In the end it all comes down to the fact that as someone else mentioned above, we have discussed and dissected every single piece of information we know about these vehicles. Done it to death! So now we are talking about potential competitors, essentially guessing how they might stack up. The bottom line is that no one REALLY knows how these new cars will drive, what their true mileage per gallon will be, or just how good (or bad) the quality of the interior will be. It is all hearsay for now.
There is a lot of anticipation right now for these vehicles but little hard facts. Things will pick up again as the auto show season opens and these start to hit dealer lots around the end of December or early January.
Part of the problem is that newcomers will likely not go through 30 pages of discussions, and thus judge content by the last few pages or so. When you do read all the pages from the beginning, there is a logical progression in discussion and comparisions, actually.
I'm also guilty of talking about other vehicles that compare to the Lambdas, however that's because I haven't quite made up my mind yet. It was decided between the Lambdas and CX-9, but then Arumage goes and mentions the Veracruz, and now I've added that one to the list since my wife likes it (see, I'm doing it again!)
I did a search and could not find an answer to this question. My main concern with new vehicles is powertrain issues. Other things I can deal with.
What other vehicles, if any, have the same engine and/or transmission as the Acadia and Outlook? I am looking to see if either has any history (good or bad) yet.
I think that on balance, over the 600+ posts, we've stayed pretty close to on-topic - which I appreciate, btw.
However, since there's a lot of interest in and conversation about these vehicles, it would be helpful if members would start separate discussions for comparisons, and just reserve this one for talking about the features, and test drives when they're available.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
The 3.6 is used in the CTS, LaCrosse and many other GM vehicles world wide. It is all aluminum and has all hte latest hi tech goodies such as VVT on intake and exhaust valves. The 6 speed is new and is in the Aura XR among others. It was developed/shared with Ford.
Comments
FWD XR: $30,290 AWD XR: $32,290
Yup, but we're not around 24 hours a day, and we hope for some self-regulation (or an e-mail alert if needed). Some inappropriate post have been removed - let's stick to talking about the vehicles mentioned in the discussion title, and definitely veer away from talking about each other.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Yup, the base version is the cheapest of the new crossovers unless it gets undercut by the Veracruz.
Option Packages
Preferred: Six-way power driver’s seat and roof rails - $505(XE) std(XR)
Convenience (XE): Remote vehicle start, 115V power outlet and heated windshield washer fluid - $450
Convenience (XR): Rear parking assist, power liftgate, remote vehicle start, 115V power outlet
and heated windshield washer fluid — $1,045
Advanced Audio: Six-disc, in-dash CD/MP3 player with 10 speakers (including subwoofer) and
rear seat audio (XE includes dual-zone auto HVAC: Standard on XR models) $880(XE) $805(XR)
Premium Trim: Leather-appointed first- and second-row seats, heated front seats — Not Avail(XE) $1,275(XR)
Enhanced Convenience: Driver’s seat memory, heated power folding outside rearview mirrors
with memory, four-way power passenger seat with power lumber, express-up driver’s window,
express-down passenger window (requires Convenience and Premium Trim packages) - Not Avail(XE) $690(XR)
Touring: 19" polished aluminum wheels, P255/60/R19 touring tires and dual outlet
chrome-plated exhaust tips — Not Avail(XE) $895(XR)
Trailering: Heavy-duty engine cooling system and trailer hitch - $425(XE) $425(XR)
Optional Equipment
Power sunroof with rear seat fixed glass panel skylight - $1,300(XE) $1,300(XR)
DVD entertainment system (requires Advanced Audio Package) - $1,295(XE) $1,295(XR)
XM® Satellite Radio (includes three months of service) - $199(XE) $199(XR)
Navigation system (requires Advanced Audio Package) - Not Avail(XE) $2,145(XR)
Second-row captain’s chairs with Smart Slide (requires Premium Trim Package) — Not Avail(XE) $495(XR)
High-intensity discharge headlamps — Not Avail(XE) $500(XR)
Engine block heater - $50(XE) $50(XR)
Premium Paint
Red Jewel Tint Coat - $395(XE) $395(XR)
White Diamond Tri-coat — Not Avail(XE) $745(XR)
Outlook's seat should be adjustable for more second row leg room. And I don't really think there's 19 cu. ft. of cargo space behing freestyle third row. And Third row leg room is a little bit less (like inch in a half). But that's because Freestyle is a station wagon (not tall). Ford should buld an extended edge of CX9 platform (it allready is but make it mazda lenth) to accomidate third row. This would look nice and sell way better than Freestyle ( which as many say is "style free").
On another note- Sema show already? usually not till right before THanksgiving. THis one's really early.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/01/03/313054.html
22.5CuFt
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/ford/freestyle/100570660/specs.html
17.6CuFt
Look on any website and you'll find third row legroom for the Freestyle to be 33.3" and the Acadia 33.2" The Acadia is 700lbs heavier and 4" taller and 3" wider than the Freestyle. To me, that's an SUV, not a crossover.
SUV is Sports Utility Vehicle. That means off road/towing capacity. It means body on frame. Nothing to do with size. The smaller Trailblazer is also an SUV.
crossover is a hybrid of car and SUV in this case. Unibody with SUV styling. If anything it is a cross between a minivan and SUV.
By any other word would smell as sweet."
If I recall correctly (and I do), all minivans used to be body on frame and RWD as well. BTW, the Trailblazer is a unibody vehicle so it really doesn't meat your criteria as an SUV.
Just like the minivan, the term SUV has been and will continue to be defined and redefined.
a mistake they made by buying a Freestyle and there is not much to salvage. My heart goes out to them. As I've said before...I can drive ugly if I really have to...I've driven ugly for 10 years now and I'm tired of driving ugly; plus no one is going talk me into driving ugly and I'm not going to drive ugly anymore!
You almost had me there. I checked in my garage and there is a pretty hefty frame under my Trailblazer. Perhaps you have a Trailblazer light?
Minivans have never been on a frame. At least not the ones I have bought.
What I was really saying is that nobody really knows what an SUV is defined as because it keeps changing, dropping super offroad power for towing and size. I think the word crossover was created for those who feel subconcious about driving an SUV.
All of this off-topic discussion is going to make hondaford very mad!
1988 Ford Aerostar based on the Ford Ranger chassis (My first vehicle when I turned 16). The Chevy Astro of that time was also based on a truck frame.
In the meantime, I'll continue to drive my "ugly" :P Freestyle, which so far has over 40,000 trouble free miles, gets 26mpg on the highway, is very quiet inside, has all the power I need, has great legroom for all three rows and good cargo space, tri-level climate control, outstanding safety ratings, a driving position that isn't too high that you need a ladder, but isn't too low like a standard car, and had all this two years prior to this new group of crossovers (CX-9, Acadia, Outlook, etc) that are just now, and I only paid $24,000 for mine. I consider the Freestyle a crossover just because when you look at it, you never know what to call it...big station wagon car or SUV or even minivan without sliding doors...hence a crossover.
By the way, I'm sorry you've been driving an ugly vehicle for 10 years. But soon you can buy the Acadia and after 10 years, instead of complaining of how you've been driving an ugly car, you can complain about how you've been driving an attractive by unreliable GM :P Just kidding, I'm sure this will be a very reliable vehicle, and I drive a Freestyle so what do I know, right! But so far zero problems. And I've never heard the Freestyle called "ugly" before...plain, but not ugly, but plain is okay to me, since on my list of car priorities, trendy exterior styling is low on my list.
the Lamdas are prety darn close if not the same in inside hauling capability.
out what a Lambda vehicle was, just this week while working it over. I may not even go for a Lambda choice, but presently prefer it over most others. It appears there is room for guestion on comfort in your stationwagon vs an Outlook and the CUVs don't have issues of climbing in and out like an SUV...unless you happen to be 5'3". I did get into a Freestyle 2 years ago, when I was thinking about getting rid of my 'Ugly', and it did feel very stationwagony and I needed a bit more than the 200hp than was offered, plus prefered a larger cargo bay . And I think Muranos/Vues/and the Highlanders would question some of your takes on Crossovers...Now the Pilot does fill your billing/interpretation very well however.
I'm sorry you paid 24k for that...but if your happy, your happy. I'm just going to be much happier driving an Outlook
or a Veracruz for a very few $1000 more. And spread out over 10 years...that works for me. Annnd I hope no car would give anyone trouble in the 1st 40,000 miles. My Ugly had only a headgasket change/repair job in it's 120,000 mile career so far. So enjoy your Freestyle and lets please move on to for something fresh and positive...like Lambda crossovers and real comparables.
The Astro was still capable of towing 6,000lbs when properly equipped, but that 3rd row was not a fun place to ride, unless you liked to be bounced.
Looking at downsizing = have had three full load subs = 95/99/03 and thinking the Enclave "best" potential "cross over" out there for 2007 upgrade? Living in Canada requires occasional four wheel traction; still have two kids at home with buds that require occasional 7 passenger seating in "luxury" - last two subs have had buckets and we have 20 hour drive each way to summer home; plus need to launch boat at start/end of summer = wonder if Buick [non-permissible content removed] end high enough to get boat onto trailer out of water?
Hoping that Enclave is early launch 2008 model year. Lost $12,000/year in depreciation on present 03 sub = ouch. Test drove Hylander Hybrid Limited as well as Honda Pilot = looking for slow down in depreciation - nice drive but both, understandably, offered me sweat f.a. for Suburban. Chevy guys hopefully will eat a bit more to see me in their newest product offering (wish me luck).
hard to justify $60,000 purchase price and four years later be offered $12,000 - better off putting $'s into pension plan. . unfortunately 35,000 km/year driving equates to "must do"
kootenay
Probably most of us have test driven one of these fords and that is why we are focusing on "this" forum, as Stylefree has been out for a couple of years. Again this Ford has occupied "much" more time on this forum than it ever desirved and we can go to the Freestyle Forum if we want to see how "happy" their owners are, who keep telling each other how happy they are, with all the happy benifits they have equal to or greater than new 2007 CUVs. So, if your happy, your happy and move on to the Forum that wants this continueing happy clammer on the Happy Ford wagon...
We could go on and on about this so let's just call it quits. I agree the Lambda's are better vehicles overall, but the Freestyle is still a valid competitor even though their looks are rather utilitarian. I think that's what bob is getting at.
By the way, you still haven't mentioned what is your "ugly" vehicle you're driving. And if you're so tired of Freestyle being mentioned on this forum, let me point out that I initially was only going to make the single post. But if you want to continue responding with your childish remarks then I'll guess I'll respond. Up to you, but the whole idea of these forums is to give people the opportunity to look at different options, and that's all I'm doing.
I agree that it is more than fair to bring up a car like the Freestyle to compare to the Lambdas: they do fall in the same market as alternatives to standard SUVs. It's also fair to bring up questions about styling (after all this is what typically makes or breaks a vehicle) but there also has to be some sensitivity and tact when you start calling other cars "ugly", etc.
I'll say one thing about the Freestyle: if it's anything like the Ford 500, which I have rode in numerous times, then that's not a bad CUV at all. I think the 500 (and Freestyle) are underrated, but then again it's probably Ford's fault for not advertising enough. In fact, I see quite a few Freestyles in my neighborhood (but no 500s...I think those cars have been relegated to the rental /company car market, which it too bad because interior quality is nice, and it rides well).
a mistake they made by buying a Freestyle and there is not much to salvage. My heart goes out to them. As I've said before...I can drive ugly if I really have to...I've driven ugly for 10 years now and I'm tired of driving ugly; plus no one is going talk me into driving ugly and I'm not going to drive ugly anymore!
Hey! I own a Freestyle (a loaded Limited AWD) and when we bought it in 2005 is simply was the best vehicle out there at the time for what we wanted: six (true adult sized) person utility, easy to drive, safe, spacious (it passed our stroller test), dual seat memory, tri-zone a/c, remote start and so on. It also was not a minivan which my wife refused to drive, and not a hulking big SUV which we also refused to own. I was a little concerned on the styling at the time but now it has grown on me, it really is not that bad and I can think of a feel modern vehicles with worse styling. I also think its styling will "age" better. So style is in the eye of the beholder. Is it fault free - the perfect vehicle? No, but no vehicle is. Incidentally we tested Pacifica, Pilot, MDX, Outbacks, Highlanders and all other varieties of "cross over" at the time and the Freestyle was simply the best (in May 2005).
Is it still the best? No. The competition has caught up. If I was to buy now I would be actively looking at the Acadia. But that still does not mean the Freestyle is bad. It is still a competitor to these Lambda trio and will only get stronger in 2008 with its restyle and 3.5l engine.
The Freestyle - the most under-rated vehicle on the road today.
If someone is after a crossover (not a minivan) and wants true 6 or more person seating there really are not many choices. Even the Pacifica, while better than many, is not that great at using the third row. That and the lack of space behind the rear seats is what made us choice the Freestyle over the Pacifica. Now I can not comment on what the new Tahoes and like are like, but that is moving up to the SUV category with all the disadvantages that they have.
This is what will make 2007 interesting. We will finally be getting new vehicles specifically engineered to hold 6 to 8 people on a car based platform to compete with the Pacifica and Freestyle which I would say have led this field unchallenged for the last 2 to 3 years.
Roll on the Outlook, Acadia, Enclave, Veracruz et al...
...exercizing little tolerance and patients. I let the Demon, within, out this week...It happens every once and
a while.
found out about the cx-7, cx-9, arcadia and the veracruz. cx-7 test drive also was nice, but to small.
When arriving on this forum this week, I found a lot of the message titles on the freestyle for 3 pages and the previous
page and a half monopolized by pilot message titles. I don't feel other forums have this much distraction though there seems to be some of course. And the last couple of days of scwabbling reminded me of my 2 children yesterday when the 8 year old brought her barbie in to her older brothers room for the umteenth time to show him her doll's new dress, while he was on the computer. He yelled at her and then I yelled at him and then he yelled at me and so on. It pretty much ruined our day. All he had to do was humor her a few times and she would have eventually gone away and this would'nt have ruined a perfectly beautiful day.
So, now having to filter through all this mess to try to locate the forums topic information. Is someone in charge?
Now I see someone asking a question on an audi q7 and would it not make sense for someone to try to answer the question and also redirect them to an appropriate audi forum where they can get better and more knowledgable info to avoid another 4 1/2 pages dominated by pilot and freestyle stuff.
That is my 2 cents worth.
It's like when you read car reviews in magazines or online. When you're reading a single review, the vehicle they're reviewing always sounds pretty good. But when you're reading a comparison review, that's you really learn something about a vehicle. And just because the reviewer may rate the car #1 for certain reasons, you might like the #3 choice because you're more interested in reliability and saftey, and aren't as concerned about towing and 3rd row passenger space, or you're more interested in performance and handling, while someone else is more concerned with off-road capability. So that's why it's good to hear how the different vehicles compare to each other.
That is MY 2 cents worth.
you gentlemen have been around for a while, but think about being a new comer comming in very excited to get connected
and finding all of this muckity-muck. Also I did'nt know it was quite this intense over here and will keep my thoughts to my self from now on, as my son said those guys really pile on. Farewell-
Karl
Why did I do this? Because I actually own one and I believe it to be an actual competitor to the Lambda trio - well the GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook at least.
In the end it all comes down to the fact that as someone else mentioned above, we have discussed and dissected every single piece of information we know about these vehicles. Done it to death! So now we are talking about potential competitors, essentially guessing how they might stack up. The bottom line is that no one REALLY knows how these new cars will drive, what their true mileage per gallon will be, or just how good (or bad) the quality of the interior will be. It is all hearsay for now.
There is a lot of anticipation right now for these vehicles but little hard facts. Things will pick up again as the auto show season opens and these start to hit dealer lots around the end of December or early January.
I'm also guilty of talking about other vehicles that compare to the Lambdas, however that's because I haven't quite made up my mind yet. It was decided between the Lambdas and CX-9, but then Arumage goes and mentions the Veracruz, and now I've added that one to the list since my wife likes it (see, I'm doing it again!)
What other vehicles, if any, have the same engine and/or transmission as the Acadia and Outlook? I am looking to see if either has any history (good or bad) yet.
Thanks.
Karl
However, since there's a lot of interest in and conversation about these vehicles, it would be helpful if members would start separate discussions for comparisons, and just reserve this one for talking about the features, and test drives when they're available.
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