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Comments
Maybe Gary was talking about the LandCruiser?
Even if he was, Toyota isn't offering 0% for it (20854 zip code).
Just looked back and that's also way, way off.
It's actually $2,635.15 at 5%,
You're off by nearly 100%.
I will cut you some slack and say either your calculator is on the fritz or you are using the wrong formula in Excel.
Use the PMT() function.
The formula is:
PMT(rate, # of periods, present value)
So for your sample it's:
PMT(5%/12, 48, 25000) = $575.73 payment
Change 5% to 0%, and it's $520.83. Over 60 months you end up with the $2635 savings.
***
FYI - Sienna and all Scions are also excluded from the 0% for 60 months.
Here are the rates from Alaska USA FCU, one of the largest CU in the USA. I can guarantee you will not get the 4.950% unless you got a lot of money in there. Banks are higher than that. Most now are paying double digit rates under 775 credit score. My guess is most of the 71% were below 775 score.
https://www.alaskausa.org/current/rates/ConsumerLoanRates.asp#OtherSecured
On Edmund's TCO the 2010 Corolla has an $2906 financing over 5 years, a Camry $4596 over 5 yrs.
National Averages: Low - 3.24% Average - 5.42% High - 10.99%
Look at that average - right about where I was saying.
Rates are much, much lower than you think right now.
And once again, the only people that qualify for 0% for 60 months from Toyota have great credit, and those are the ones getting 3.24%.
OF COURSE you will. Have you ever not?
Not very many people have credit scores 775 and up. Less than 20% of Americans.
Except that's NOT normal.
Normal is the 5.42% average I quoted from MSN (vs a random high number you pulled out of the blue).
To qualify for 0% you have to be at least average, don't you agree?
Payment at the NORMAL 5.42% is $310.88.
Incentive is $2346 rounding up, which is less than the $2910 average.
Your assumptions are still off. You're using high rates and high prices (64 grand, seriously?).
compare that to a 35k silverado, there is a lot more room for incentives and to still make something when you sell one.
you can put some big incentives on a Tundra and it doesn't move the average much, because they don't sell in large volume.
basic math..
I suppose you could be in between???? :P
I don't think that's proof of anything other than confirming reports that GM is known to make better cars and trucks in China than they do for the American market. I've read and heard reports that GM actually cares about quality in China and doesn't decontent their vehicles inside and out until they all look like Geo Metro's inside.
I also heard that some of the GM Chinese interiors are actually quite nice, but that the same quality never makes it over here for whatever reason. My theory is that they have a reputation to uphold in China, whereas they have no reputation to keep up in the US, so why even try? :P
This is current to today.
Mission Federal (one of the largest in SD County) Starting at 4.49 % for new cars. (Goes up as your credit gets worse). You'd have to be insane to pay over 5% for a car loan right now (or know deep inside your credit sucks and you'll never pay for the car anyway or pay it back in full for that matter). When you know you'll probably default the rate doesn't really matter at all now does it?
At California Coast Credit Union you start at 3.98, some at 4.98. You have to be someone with bad credit to pay 5% or more as I said before.
compare that to a 35k silverado, there is a lot more room for incentives and to still make something when you sell one.
you can put some big incentives on a Tundra and it doesn't move the average much, because they don't sell in large volume.
basic math..
Ah, but then there is the down payment.
Remember, we assumed the LOAN was over $16,000. Everybody's gotta put something down, 10 or 20% cash, or a trade that is worth at least a few thousand.
So even on a $21k MSRP Corolla, you deal down to, say $19k, trade in a $5,000 vehicle, and so the loan is $14k, so the incentive is even less than we thought.
We should compare Corolla to Cobalt, Silverado to Tundra, etc. To keep a level playing field.
The math has been done for us, the top 4 in incentives per vehicle are GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Nissan.
Sure, Silverado costs more than Corolla, but is the average GM transaction price HIGHER than Toyota? I sort of doubt that. Anyone know and have a source?
Hurting less than GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Nissan. That much we know.
Yet another thing that you overlooked is the fact that many models have 0% only for 36 months. Not 60 months.
That makes a big difference when calculating the cost of the incentive.
For the RAV4, for instance, the 0% is only for 36 months. Rates are lower for shorter-term loans, so shop around and you'll find 2.9% pretty easily.
For a 20k loan, assuming you trade in 5k or so.
The huge incentive? Want to guess?
Less than $907.
Whoop-de-doo. That brings the average way down.
Same for the Prius. 25k car, say about 5k down, you borrow 20k, the 0% has the same value of $907.
Same for Highlander. Let's say it's 30k so you borrow 25k. The "huge" incentive? $1133.
$20,000? Pure fantasy. That was assuming a $65,000 loan amount at an 11.5% interest rate.
if you figure in a 7k discount/trade that makes the comparison even worse.
21 minus 7 = 14, 35 minus 7 = 28.
not only that, chevy sells just as many silverado's as toyota sells corolla's.
probably more.
how about tahoe's compared to sequoia's?
you still don't get it? sorry, but i am confounded by this.
The average Chevy costs more than the average Toyota? I don't know, that why I asked. How is that complete crap?
I can't defend myself because I don't even understand what you are attacking.
Yes, GM sells more trucks. Lexus sells more than Cadillac. My guess is it evens out.
But Lexus prices go well beyond Cadillac, plus they do more volume. Hybrids are also expensive and carry big margins, and noone sells more of those than Toyota.
If that's what you meant, just come out and say it, first of all. And yes, it is, but it's still far less than the $3000 cash on the Cobalt.
The RAV4, Prius, and Highlander all have small incentives, and many models have no 0% offers at all.
Look at GM. $1500 cash for the Aveo, an even cheaper car. $3000 cash for the Cobalt, well more than the Corolla, and it's less expensive to boot.
Chevy boasts "$3793 average finance savings" for the HHR.
"$4151 average finance savings" for Malibu.
Avalon will have bigger incentives than Corolla simply because of the higher price, but what about the Impala? They have 0% for 72 months, 6 years! Chevy says "$5034 average finance savings".
This is straight from Chevrolet.com. I think those numbers are inflated, but they show that Toyota's 0% for 60 months on Corolla/Camry/Avalon are right in line with GM, maybe even a little low for the Avalon.
If that's what you meant, just come out and say it, first of all. And yes, it is, but it's still far less than the $3000 cash on the Cobalt.
This can be misleading also. The current Corolla is a rather new vehicle while the Cobalt is old enough that its tooling may already be paid for. In that case the larger incentive may actually impact profitablity less than on the Corolla.
Again, the danger of top line only analysis.
Having said that, GM and Ford were first to strike, trying to gain conquest sales with extra rebates for import owners.
Toyota responded in March. Incentives were similar on the volume models (Corolla, Camry), but still less on most others.
i will just leave it at that.
I doubt GM ever made a penny on the Cobalt. They probably lost money. $3000 cash back? Transactions prics are at Yaris levels. That's crazy.
Good news for GM is the Cruze has gotten great early feedback. It may actually be competitive, like the Malibu is in the mid-size class. GM *needs* for the Cruze to be a good car. Cruze owners may become future Buick/Cadillac owners.
Your posts lack punctuation/white space and can be difficult to read.
Trucks have big incentives, that brings up GM's incentives average? Is that your theory?
The $3000 on the hood of the Cobalt contradicts that. So do the amounts Chevy says you'll save by financing an Impala, Malibu, or HHR. All of those have above average incentives for below average prices.
21 minus 7 = 14, 35 minus 7 = 28.
I don't think you'll find that many people trading in a 7K car for a 21K one. For a 35K one yes, but not 21K.
Car prices are rising after years of staying flat (MSNBC)
I feel bad for Honda - they're in the spot light now. One small slip and the media will be all over them.
Hyundai is in a good position because they're rising up, but still seen as a bit of an underdog. If they slip up the media won't make as big of a deal.
Transmission problems for years. VCM problems on V6s. Brake wear problems. CRv AC compressor problems. Other problems specific to certain models. All those haven't affected them much, although people do post that now they'd had it with their Honda here on Edmunds. It used to be they would be attacked by the faithful for posting such heresy with claims they must not actually own a Honda and are just posting to undercut the good vehicles.
Oh wait. That does sound like the way it was with toyota-lexus for years. Maybe Honda does need to watch out.
Have they been having runaway acceleration?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess the "halo" is a blessing and a curse. It helps sell cars, sure.
But then you're under the microscope. Perhaps Honda was in Toyota's shadow recently, and got away with it? I'm not sure.
Personally, I think every make has its flaws. When they rely too much on reputation, they risk falling off the pedestal and on their face.
That is exactly right. They all have had their flaws through the decades.
Those who self-righteously ridiculed other brand's problems through the last many years need only to look at the real history of their own favorite brands happening here and now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
From the article cited.
Guess toyota-lexus IS climbing back to the top of the heap!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Almost makes you want to take the bus.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Who knew that Evil Kneivel drove a Camry when he wasn't on his bike?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
First off, a few caveats - I'm an Engineer, and have approached this in a typical engineering fashion. I'm not an automotive engineer, but I did do quit a bit of MechE studies and earn my living as a Software Engineer, and I've got a pretty good handle on both the mechanical and electrical diagnostics. In addition to the Prius, which my daughter drives, we've got a VW Bora, an Audi Q7 and a Porsche 996, and I'm constantly tinkering with all of our cars to find out what makes them tick and how to make them tick better.
On Saturday, 24 April 2010, my daughter was driving over Hwy 17 to Santa Cruz, CA when she rounded a corner and executed a panic brake due to completely stopped traffic. She was able to keep the car under control and avoid collision. ABS likely was engaged. It's likely that the Stroke Sensor failed at this point. One or more calipers continued to be engaged after she stopped stepping on the brake pedal. She drove another several miles in this state, and experienced brake fade when she tried to come to a stop at a traffic light. When she finally pressed fully on the brake pedal, secondary braking was engaged and the wheels locked. She fishtailed, but was able to maintain control of the vehicle and avoid collision. She immediately parked and called me. Vehicle was towed to nearest Toyota dealer. Diagnostics indicated a DTC C1247 Stroke Sensor Malfunction, but upon electrical reset all mechanical functions resumed normally.
Brake failures are pretty frightening, especially when it's your inexperienced teenage kid behind the wheel. However, I suspect that failures of this nature are fairly endemic to all regenerative braking systems. No extent of mechanical controls would be capable of balancing the engine and brakes, so you've got to trust these things to a computer. And I can guarantee you that all software has bugs, especially around edge conditions. It's simply impossible to test for everything, all you can do is document and learn from your field data.
That being said, I would certainly hope that these situations have been heeded and improved by Toyota. I'm reading stuff here that's five years old, which what appear to be ample field reports. Toyota needs to step up to the plate and take immediate action on this stuff, and stop dismissing it as Edmunds/GM propoganda.
Or maybe the Camry reversed?