Toyota on the mend?

lemko

If you recall, those Tundra ads actually had Ford F-150s at the sites where they built the contraptions to demonstrate the "capabilities" of the Tundra - an embarrassing blunder on behalf of Toyota and its ad agency.

andres3

Never noticed the Fords in Toyota's commercials touting the Tundra's "awesomeness." I guess I was too busy enjoying the spectacle of those commercials.

anythngbutgm

According to Cars.com

Movers
2011 Toyota Avalon: 6 days
2011 Ford F-250: 7 days
2010 Hyundai Tucson: 10 days
2011 Honda Pilot: 12 days
2010 Toyota Highlander: 12 days
2010 Toyota RAV4: 12 days
2010 GMC Terrain: 13 days
2010 Subaru Outback: 13 days
2011 Hyundai Sonata: 14 days
2010 Chevy Equinox: 14 days
2010 Audi Q7: 15 days
2010 Lexus LS 460: 15 days
2010 Toyota 4Runner: 15 days
2010 Mercedes-Benz E550: 16 days
2010 Mercedes-Benz GL550: 16 days
2010 Acura MDX: 18 days
2010 Land Rover LR4: 18 days
2010 Mercedes-Benz GL450: 18 days
2010 VW Jetta SportWagen: 18 days
2011 Toyota Sienna: 19 days

Losers

2010 Jaguar XFR: 192 days
2010 Suzuki SX4 Sportback: 286 days
2010 Mitsubishi Eclipse coupe: 173 days
2010 Volvo C30: 166 days
2010 Hyundai Sonata: 156 days
2010 Volvo C70: 128 days
2010 Toyota Tundra: 128 days
2010 Ford F-450: 127 days
2010 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder: 123 days
2010 Dodge Ram 1500: 114 days

link title

obyone

LOL!! Tundra listed under the Losers @ 128 days.

explorerx4

that pretty much fits. :P

ateixeira

little pickups they started out with in the 70's and 80's

When I was a little kid, my brother decided to toss a Tonka truck to me, and it hit me square in the forehead. My mom didn't have a driver's license at the time, and we were in the middle of that snow storm, 1979 I think it was?

Any how, my next door neighbor, Dave, took me to the hospital in his Toyota pickup. I'll never forget that truck.

8 stitches, but I was OK. My brother on the other hand.... grrr.

ateixeira

those Tundra ads actually had Ford F-150s at the sites

You sure?

I saw some HD pickups, F-250s, maybe even F-350s.

Those are segments Toyota doesn't compete in. It's also one reason they'll never match the volume of the Big 3.

When we see "F series" sales keep in mind they are counting 250s, 350s, 450s, or probably about 17,543 variations of trucks. Tundra is one truck.

Same way "Camry" sales include the Solara and Accord sales include the Crosstour, Taurus X for Taurus, etc. Those are really more than one model.

It's a tough nut to crack. The full-size pickup segment is the Final Frontier, if you will, it's pretty much the only segment the import brands have not penetrated. They're trying to sell an import mostly to states that used to fly the Confederate flag. I'm surprised they survive at all.

Tundra came the closest - look at Titan (Nissan asked Dodge to build trucks for them) and Ridgeline (mid, but not really compact). Compared to its peers, Tundra *IS* the successful one.

gagrice

To get the numbers sold by the Domestics Tundra will have to crack the fleet market. Where I worked in the Arctic, Ford was king. There was 3 Ford warranty shops to service the truck fleet. Very few GM trucks and NO Dodge or Toyota. If you have a failure with anything but a Ford you fix it yourself at your expense or load it on a flatbed to Fairbanks for warranty service. With all the oil in TX you would think some of those companies would consider Tundra for their light duty trucks.

nippononly

ateixeira

Good points.

deltheking

Toyota posted $1b profit in 2009.. 2010 would be crucial though.. But they are on their way back.You can bet that they will be back with a bang even more harder as they will be smarting from the recalls. All the good for buyers like me !! I am enjoying my recently purchased 09 Camry XLE :P :shades:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/10/2894501.htm?section=justin

ateixeira

Plus Consumer Reports removed their do not buy stamp.

imidazol97

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/05/toyota_waited_months_to_issu- e.html

An Associated Press investigation has found that Toyota waited nearly a year to issue a U.S. recall in 2005 over defective steering rods in trucks and SUVs, despite a similar recall in Japan and dozens of reports from American motorists about rods that snapped without warning.

gagrice

So why didn't this fellow get his 1991 Toyota fixed if the recall was in 2005? The accident was not until 2007. I am not excusing Toyota on fiddling around. Some responsibility lies with the vehicle owner to get the recall taken care of. When Ford sent me a letter on my 99 Ranger having a possible fire hazard, I took it right in for the recall. I don't think they have a case.

Yet it was not until September 2005 -- 11 months after the Japanese recall began -- that Toyota issued a recall in the U.S. for nearly 1 million 4Runners and Toyota trucks from model years 1989 to 1995 and T100s from model years 1993 to 1998 to repair steering rods.

berri

Maybe he has a post office like mine!

explorerx4

'Good Taste' did not.

gagrice

I was very surprised when I got the recall. I was the second owner and never used Ford for service. They get the info from the DMV. It would be a real coincidence for the PO to not deliver the recall. Though Toyota is pretty screwed up on all the current recalls. I got called from my dealer and my Sequoia did not have any recalls. Unless it is one of those secret TSBs.

nippononly

I got my recall notice from Toyota for the very recall being discussed here (steering tie rods on '89-'95 Tacomas and 4Runners) despite being the third owner of my Runner. Had that recall performed with my truck's odo reading 220,000 miles. Wow, thanks Toyota! ;-)

lemko

Maybe it's a double-secret TSB! :P

ateixeira

Toyota forecasts higher full-year profit as U.S. sales recover

That's a headline from Automotive News.

Bottom line: people care a lot more about the price they pay than they do about anything else.

The Almighty Dollar.

robsis

I respectfully disagree. I think people care about quality at a fair price and are willing to pay for it.......but there is a point where price trumps quality, which IMHO is the only reason Chrysler is still around.

ateixeira

My point remains - everyone here though the latest news would doom Toyota for sure, first in sales (nope) then in profits with the incentives (nope again).

obyone

Makes you wonder what would happen if one of those $2K Chinese cars could pass the crash test. I'd venture to say it would outsell Toyotas in a hartbeat.

nippononly

I know everybody here thinks Toyota's name has been completely ruined by this whole thing, but I think that exaggerates the reality of it. If the Chinese got here tomorrow and sold midsize sedans for $10K, Toyota would still plenty of Camrys, I'm convinced.

They have lots of bad press, but they also have about 18 million customers in the last decade, of which probably about 17.9 million had no trouble they didn't consider normal with the vehicle they bought. And if the numbers are to be believed, a solid 2/3 would be interested in buying another Toyota if Toyota has the right product for them when that time comes. That's a large existing customer base, something the Chinese can't shake a stick at.

robsis

I don't think most of us here believe that Toyota's name has been completely ruined..

When you look at the facts, your premise is correct...that is, most previous Toyota owners, even in today's environment, are inclined to look to Toyota first based upon past experience. Every Toyota I've ever owned has been an excellent vehicle and they are always on my short list of manufacturers when I seek to buy. Most of my friends, neighbors, etc are the same. The press and internet have blown this waaaay out of proportion (just like everything these days, unfortunately) and there is no doubt that Toyota has a black eye from it....but I believe that they will emerge from this stronger and with even better products......That, in the end, is a win win for all of us.

In the meantime, other manufacturers are learning from this situation and hopefully we will have a better, more competitive world automotive market....again, a win for us consumers.

The Chinese? Not sure they can get past their corruption to truly produce a competitive, first class product in this area. Personally, I would NOT consider a Chinese automobile, no matter what the price point. I think they would need a much longer curve than the Koreans to get my foot in their door, especially with their reputation. Hyundai finally got my attention in the last few years...and I think most would agree that they've earned it....not sure the Chinese even know how to do that.

Toyota? IMHO, only the fringe buyer has walked away from them and, again, your point about their large built-in customer base is largely correct.

chuck1919

I have said this many times, there are SO MANY Camry, Corollas, and Prius on the roads in Southern California, that if you believed how the media reports about how wide spread the problem is, I could stand on any given busy intersection and I should see dozens running in to each other (yes there are that many).

But guess what?

That is not happening.

ateixeira

if one of those $2K Chinese cars could pass the crash test

Let's be realistic...

I tell you, though, the Tata Nano (from India, of course) doesn't compete with Toyotas, it competes with bicycles and donkeys.

ateixeira

Toyota? IMHO, only the fringe buyer has walked away from them

And they're just as likely to pick up fringe buyers with incentive pricing.

That's not surprising. The surprising part is that their profits are up.

obyone

The surprising part is that their profits are up.

It's not that surprising.

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_58411.shtml

avucarguy

I am surprised Toyota's profit is up with all the incentives they are giving out. It is not easy to keep a good company like Toyota down . I would love to see Toyota offer a warranty like Hyundai 5yrs/60,000mi bumper to bumper + 10yrs/100,000 mi power train warranty.
As for the cheap cars from India and China, I would not buy any of these cars when they come over until they are proven safe and reliable. What good is a really cheap car that breaks down on you all the time, or is unsafe to drive. :lemon:

berri

I know people have different experiences and opinions, but when I get a higher mileage rental, the Camry seems newer than the others. It just seems to wear better. I don't expect Toyota will be hurting either. I think it will take a lot more before people leave Toyota in large numbers despite the bashers.

beachfish2

"I would love to see Toyota offer a warranty like Hyundai"

Speaking of Hyundai, I read an article yesterday in a recent issue of Fortune. Great article on Hyundai's history, methods, etc.

The founder valued quantity. Gave the company to his son who valued quality. Then the son was arrested for skimming 100 MILLION dollars into a political slush fund. They locked him up for 2 months and eventually convicted him and gave him a 3-year sentence.

Okay, maybe this is old news to everybody but me.

The punch line to the story was the appeals court's decision that he was too important to the country's economy and let him go.

John

explorerx4

it's old news to me, can't speak for anyone else.

obyone

Ditto

ateixeira

This is just the type of distraction Toyota needed:

Toyota's 'Swagger Wagon' scores high on weekly viral media chart

NEW YORK -- Two significant new video campaigns battled it out for the top slot on Advertising Age's weekly viral video chart: Google's "Chrome Speed Tests" and Toyota's "Swagger Wagon."

Both got some blog coverage last week; Google because its Chrome browser is taking share in the web browser market from Firefox and Microsoft's Internet Explorer; and Toyota because, well, since when do you use YouTube to sell a minivan? Each video gathered a bit more than 1.8 million views last week.


http://www.autonews.com/

And in case anyone's been living in a turtle shell all month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql-N3F1FhW4

I like the part when the dad squeezes the nipple on the giant baby bottle to the beat of the music.

tsu670

"I am surprised Toyota's profit is up with all the incentives they are giving out."

This just validates what many of us who drank Toyota's Kool-Aid have suspected for a long, long time... Toyota vehicles have been, and still are, over priced.

ateixeira

It's not that, it's economies of scale.

It costs tons of money to make the first car. The 2nd car is cheaper to produce, and so on.

When sales volumes are up, they can make bigger profits even with smaller margins per vehicle.

obyone

Also helps when you utilize third world labor.

ateixeira

Which Toyotas sold here are made in the 3rd world?

Most are made in the USA, a few in Japan.

gagrice

It has been well documented on Toyota's use of 3rd world workers. Paying them substandard wages. Working them long hours and taking their documentation so they cannot leave Japan. I would imagine if they do that right in their own country, the working conditions in factories elsewhere are much worse. I am not saying Toyota is the only auto maker using slave labor. It just happens to be a fact and this is a thread about Toyota. I would be interested in the working conditions in their Denso factories in India??

obyone

In case my last link wasn't to your liking, perhaps this one will do better.

Toyota again

imidazol97

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/14/AR2010051405390.- - html

"Toyota officials sought to develop a public relations campaign to attack the credibility of key witnesses who have testified before Congress about acceleration problems with the company's cars, according to documents provided to the House committee investigating the automaker.

"Political candidates and companies often use polling to test the weaknesses of their critics or opponents. Benenson's survey, titled the "Kane/Gilbert Debunking Message Test," directed pollsters to read several negative statements about Gilbert and Kane. The survey noted that a study Kane had commissioned from Gilbert was "nothing more than a manufactured stunt -- a parlor trick that would affect nearly all cars the same way, not just Toyotas." Having heard that, respondents were asked to say whether that changed their opinion of Kane's and Gilbert's credibility."

"The company says it never produced advertisements based on the polling. Still, plans for the campaign have drawn the ire of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which, upon learning of them, told the automaker to hand over all related documents. "

Toyota's in trouble for trying to manipulate the process once again--only this time it's not the NHTSA.

robsis

I truly believe that all of those who believe that Toyota will just fall off the face of the planet are smoking somthing strange. This company is strong, builds strong products, and will survive this bad publicity....and will emerge as a stronger company for this.

Heck, Bush survived to win a second time... :P

JMHO

ateixeira

How does that relate at all to profits being up this year vs. last? Unless this is a new practice, which I doubt.

ateixeira

Anyone catch the new special on CNBC?

I was gonna DVR the one on Sunday but had scheduling conflicts.

I'm curious as to how good/thorough the coverage was. Any new information?

'Total Recall: The Toyota Story' This documentary will be broadcast on CNBC Saturday, May 15, 7 p.m. ET, and Sunday, May 16, 10 p.m. ET. BBC documentary explores Toyota's history in light of the unintended acceleration troubles. Automotive News Publisher Peter Brown is one of the experts

obyone

How does that relate at all to profits being up this year vs. last? Unless this is a new practice, which I doubt.

This is about to change. By April 2008, the Wall Street Journal was reporting that “Toyota Motor Company is now pushing to lower labor costs in the U.S., say people familiar with the matter….Toyota has stopped pegging its wages to UAW rates when it builds new plants, company executives said. It won't cut wages of current workers, but new hires will be paid no more than 50 percent above the prevailing manufacturing wage in the area where a plant is located, they said.”

In fact, months earlier, in September 2007, an internal memo was leaked at Toyota’s giant Georgetown, Kentucky plant laying out management’s plans to cut $300 million in labor costs across Toyota’s North American operations over the next three years. Not only would new hires come in at lower wages—no longer comparable to U.S. union wages—but benefits would also be cut, including reduced health coverage. (New York Times, September 4, 2007)

The point being that this is an ongoing process which pays less and less every year. At $14 and hour plus reduced medical benefits we're talking about the same level as a WalMart clerk. I'm sure if Toyota thought they could get away with it they would pay the same wages as McD's.

So after they attain the $300 million cut where's next? Why be concerned about rebates when your workers are paying the price for it by working OT for free?

gagrice

Why be concerned about rebates when your workers are paying the price for it by working OT for free?

OT is by Federal Law 1.5 times regular pay when you work over 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week. $14 per hour for an entry level manufacturing job is great pay. If a person wants a job he or she will jump on that pay scale. We have a lot of people in CA that would love a job like that. Problem is no company with any plans to make money will build in CA. The Industry code word is ABC, Anyplace, But, California. The days of 5% unemployment in the USA are history. Thankfully Toyota is offering some jobs in the USA.

PS
I realize that Toyota is using slave labor in much of the 3rd world and at home.

nippononly

TOYOTA CITY, Japan -- Struggling to fix its quality problems, Toyota is reassigning top engineers and executives to new safety-related duties -- a move that could slow product development and curb the company's breakneck expansion.

Since its global recall crisis erupted in January, Toyota has added layers of bureaucracy, including task forces, rapid-response teams, a business reform committee, even a new division -- all to improve safety and prevent a relapse.

Now, as the world's biggest automaker shifts workers and resources from other programs, it is forced to re-evaluate some projects.

"We are trying to find the engineering man-hours for these quality issues," Seigo Kuzumaki, project general manager for vehicle safety, told Automotive News last week. The surging demand for engineers in safety is forcing Toyota to rebalance resources in product development while trying to keep products on schedule, he said. In some cases, that may result in slowed product development, but the company is trying to avoid this, Kuzumaki said.

......Toyota's new balancing act is highlighted by this month's creation of a Design Quality Innovation Division, led by Managing Officer Kiyotaka Ise. Ise adds the new division to his portfolio, which already included duties overseeing sports vehicles, product development and Lexus development.

The new unit has a staff of 50 and is charged with channeling customer feedback into product development, Kuzumaki said.

That step follows several other organizations created since January to beef up quality:

-- The Special Committee for Global Quality.

-- A North American Quality Task Force headed by Steve St. Angelo, a top North American manufacturing executive.

-- Six new Swift Market Analysis Response Teams for the United States.

-- A corporate Business Reform Committee to improve internal communication.

-- An independent North American Quality Advisory Panel.

Even before the recall crisis hit last autumn, Toyota's human resources were stretched to the limit. President Akio Toyoda has said repeatedly that the problems stem partly from the inability of human resource development to keep pace with Toyota's explosive international growth.

The company's global employee head count has shot up to 321,000 from 183,000 a decade ago.

......Kuzumaki said shifting resources to safety was the right compromise at the right time. Toyota needs to move faster to respond to customer needs, he said.

The recent recall of the Lexus GX 460 SUV because of inadequate stability control software -- deemed a "safety risk" by Consumer Reports magazine -- underscored how Toyota's own standards were out of line with customer expectations, Kuzumaki noted.

"One lesson we learned is that customer expectations are higher than what we thought they were," he said, adding that if overhauling safety meant slowing product, so be it.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100517/OEM01/305179966/1424- -

So, we have yet MORE mea culpas from this monster of a company, even as they are saying in one breath that they need to shift more resources to safety testing and planning but they refuse to let that slow down product development. ??? Seems self-contradictory to say the least. And did they really think that customer expectations wouldn't include their $50,000 SUV staying right side up when they go into a turn a little hot? What does that last remark mean?

I'm afraid this company still has an EPIDEMIC case of GM-speak, but I hope the next few years prove me wrong. Seems like many of these new committees and teams exist solely to control the PR better next time something like this happens, and keep the North Americans appeased. I'd rather they engineer the cars RIGHT than appease me.....

imidazol97

>this company still has an EPIDEMIC case of GM-speak,

No need to color GM with the toyota-lexus type of disdain for customers and safety and NHSTA rules. GM suffered their fate, and deserves to be treated reasonably without prejudice.

Why not coin a new term for toyota's lack of respect: "arrogance" morphed into "toyotagance."

gagrice

The recent recall of the Lexus GX 460 SUV because of inadequate stability control software -- deemed a "safety risk" by Consumer Reports magazine -- underscored how Toyota's own standards were out of line with customer expectations, Kuzumaki noted.

I don't think ToyLex would have done anything if not for CR detecting the fault for them. They only seem to react to high profile cases. The little guy having problems is still going to be treated like a loser. If Toyota spent as much on customer relations to listen to the complaints as they have on high powered PR groups, they may not have had this firestorm to deal with.