Toyota on the mend?

ateixeira

Yep, and an inverter turns almost any car with enough amps in to a generator, but the difference is a hybrid could use the residual power remaining in its batteries.

I'm sure they have far more capacity than a lead-acid 12v battery.

Too bad it's JDM models only...liability reasons perhaps. Lawyers win again.

gagrice

If you are plugged into the AC on the Prius and the batteries get low does the engine start up and charge them? On my 2005 GMC Hybrid there was two 20 Amp circuits available in the bed of the truck. I could hook up a power saw and after running a bit the engine would automatically start and recharge the batteries and carry the load. Probably one of the best features on the PU. It was called the contractors PU in some of the ads.

ateixeira

I think that's how it works, not sure to be honest.

ateixeira

No surprise about Subaru, the Outback is hot and the JDM built models are short on supply.

VW has simply been doing well.

Hyundai/Kia also.

fintail will argue Mercedes can afford them, but I guess I just beat him to it. LOL

WTOP radio had a BMW lease on a 3 series for $359 so I'm not surprised to see BMW way up on the list, either.

Look at Audi compared to its competitors, though. Wow.

fintail

Making the numbers relative to average transaction prices or even breaking them down by model and then relating them to transaction prices would probably make the chart more useful, yeah.

But anyway, a 60K car can afford more of a discount than a 20K car.

ateixeira

I'd also like to see by brand, i.e. list Toyota and Lexus separately.

fintail

I agree. I wonder what is gained in the combination.

ateixeira

We might be surprised - Lexus has more models built in Japan, so those likely have smaller incentives than US-built Toyotas.

I'm still impressed with Audi's low numbers.

motorcity6

Camrys are $4000 off MSRP, probably 75 in stock..Tradein auto is low booked..Have a 2002 XLE in the garage, 84k miles, 4banger, and it is a very dependable car..However the fun part of visiting the dealer for a simple oil change is the luxury of receiving a full mechanical inspection..The last bargain oil change they came up $850 worth of needed repairs..You have to accept that Venice is a senior community which makes their job easier..

Probable cause of the inspection is the fact that Camry is a very reliable car and their service dept needs the work..Not my car but I pay the bills..

Never owned one or any Asian car, only 51 Big 3s and 2 Porsches..But Camry is good transportation..spent 35 yrs selling and supplying parts to the Big3..

fintail

In percentage of MSRP terms maybe, in raw dollars, I don't know. And of course, who knows what is really an incentive and how much a dealer can take off the sticker when asked. Can't be easily selling a GS these days.

Audi is very trendy with the conspicuous consumption set right now. Nice interiors, flashy lines, LED jewelry.

anythngbutgm

I saw one of those new A7 "S-lines" in triple black last night and damn that thing has presence... Only knock on it would be the back end looks like it was sized for a smaller car, lol.

Still, :surprise: Wow.

fintail

I have seen one on the road (driver ditched a Q7 for it) and one at the dealer - sticker was racing up for 70K, so it's not exactly cheap anyway. Nice look though. Audi's rise to stardom might make it that much harder for Lexus to gain some sparkle when it finally starts to update its aging and beige passenger car fleet.

ateixeira

Upsell, upsell, upsell.

Every time I go to a dealer I get that. That's why I like to do as much as I can myself.

Recently a dealer (not Toyota) pushed a full fuel system service - at 15k miles. The thing's not even broken in, sheesh.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/20/2012-scion-iq-first-drive-review/

They've gone mad. I was expecting $13-14k or so.

The new Accent is under $12.5k and gets better highway MPG.

Sales volumes will be as small as the car itself.

motorcity6

My neighbor has a 2003 Camry, elderly lady, and car is in mint condition, had the engine belts replaced around 35k and the rear speaker plastic grills replaced due to cracking from sun, cost was $400..Car is garaged every night.

The last visit for an oil change on the Camry under my care was a shopping list of: replace drive belt--135, replace valve cover gasket 155 and replace leaking water pump & coolant 480..I didn't find any leaks..That was back in March 2011..I keep a white rug under all 3 cars, no oil and no coolant leaks..

One has to keep in mind that it costs big bucks to open the dealership door every business day and if it happens to be the day you are there, then somehow money will be extracted from your wallet..Having had 53 cars to date, I have had lots of dealer exposure, some good and others not so great...

I tried to buy a Camry SE w/sunroof back in Jan 2011, took my oldest car in for appraisal and left to make a trip to the airport some 70 miles away..Prior to contacting the dealer again, I went on an Edmunds website cover tranny glitches on the 2011 models, and that stopped all further action on my part. Knowingly facing grief before taking possession is not too swift, so I informed the sales mgr and of course they had never heard of a problem..End of story..

Can't fault the Camry in my garage for it serves it's owner very well..Waiting for my 5.0 Mustang GT, my kind of auto, every senior citizen should have one..The big expensive stuff is easy to buy, comfy to sit in, but doesn't offer any real driving satisfaction..V-8, 6 on the floor, tight suspension, and a little noise..will miss the sunroof, big time..

ateixeira

keep in mind that it costs big bucks to open the dealership door every business day

Yep, and it's not like dealers are making big profits from new car sales, with below invoice sales predominant nowadays.

They make money in the service bays.

Waiting for my 5.0 Mustang GT

You getting one with Sync? Wondering if you've sampled that, paired your phone, etc. An IT buddy has one and can stream Pandora, but controls do seem a bit complex.

gagrice

Crash Victims' Family Rejects Car Dealer's Settlement Offer
Saylor Family Attorney Says Bob Baker Lexus Offered $6M To Settle Aug. 2009 Crash

The Saylor family is suing Bob Baker Lexus, the dealership that provided the loaner car, for $14 million.

However, Bob Baker Lexus responded with an offer to settle the case for $6 million, according to John Gomez, the attorney for the Saylor family.

The family determined that the amount was not enough.

"In our mind, Bob Baker was more responsible than Toyota. That is, they had more blame and so it just seemed fair and right that they should pay more," said Gomez.

Toyota paid the family $10 million, but the company did not admit or deny liability in a settlement.

Gomez said the Saylor family wants to move forward with a trial, and he told 10News his office will start to depose Bob Baker's employees within 30 days.

Meanwhile, the Bob Baker Lexus dealership was sold to TAG Automotive Group in late June.

Gomez said the sale of the dealership should not affect the case.

cannon3

Toyota will mend over time. They have been shaken by its quality issues over the last few years. Toyota will loose market share because of this. Its reputation has been tarnished no doubt. But hey, look at Audi. I remember the Audi's of the 70's/80's and they were absolute junk. Now, everyone seems to have forgoten and forgiven those days. Who would have thought Ford/GM quality would improve so much also?? Oh, the way the pedulm swings back and forth...

ateixeira

I don't think any of us should be surprised. I've been saying all along the dealer is more at fault than anyone.

I hope the family takes Bob Barker Baker to the cleaners.

Edit: yup, I called it here:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efda853/10574#MSG10574

gagrice

There is no doubt at least a couple people at Baker Lexus dropped the ball big time. The person that did not report the first incident with the floor mats and whoever used the wrong mat to start with. I am not a fan of over the top awards in lawsuits. However if Toyota settled for $10 million, Bob Baker is far more responsible. I still say the newer throttle pedal design is POOR.

ateixeira

Agreed, they want more than $10 million, even if it's just symbolic, i.e. more than what Toyota settled for.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/25/toyota-gives-wheelchair-van-as-wedding-gift-t- o-amazing-bride/

obyone

Better hope that former president and now Vice Chairman Katsuaki Watanabe doesn't get wind of this one.

gagrice

Toyota and Braun will get a ton of free advertising from that gift. Probably have a hard time filling orders for the special vans. Smart move.

ateixeira

They got the one with the ramp conversion.

Toyota also offers one for a disabled passenger to ride in the middle row seat. It powers out to the curb, and they sit in the seat, which power back in to the van. Kinda neat.

For our recent vacation we had a passenger in a wheel chair and I would have positively KILLED for that feature. Ingress/egress was the hardest part. Storing the wheel chair was cumbersome, too. The Braun conversion actually cinches down the chair, while they stay in it.

Not sure which is better.

ateixeira

Here is the Braun conversion:



URL if you can't see image above:

http://www.braunability.com/products/minivans/rampvan-xt/images/toyota-rampvan-x- t-cutaway-w-360.jpg

Here is Toyota's OEM offering with the seat that powers out of the car:



URL if you can't see 2nd image:

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.1699876.1263413507!/image/2279557303.jpg_ge- n/derivatives/feature_416/2279557303.jpg

I would have picked the latter because you can still seat 7 passengers. With the Braun you can only seat 5 total because the 2nd row is removed.

Our needs were only short-term, though.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/27/2012-lexus-gs-quick-spin-review/

Reminds me of Audi's Dynamic suspension settings.

The difference in pace around those cones between old and new is startling.

fintail

The new one is better than the (very) old one? Woo hoo! That's ...ummm...different looking, too. Seeing as the current one is 6 model years old with virtually no updates and virtually no sales volume, something had to be done - competition walks all over it. Don't know if the big mouth bass look will work 7 years after Audi did it though, so will it look like an Audi or a Mitsu? Looks will determine success for this thing more than any handling improvements.

ateixeira

Not all new models are better than the ones they replace. The 5 series got less sporty, for instance.

The news is how much better it is (will be?).

fintail

Less sporty, but much better looking and likely better equipped across most trim levels - I bet it sells better too. We both know that's what it's all about. Sport buyers will be able to get their M5 either way. The normal ones are still sportier than the competition, too.

GS will be better for sure - doesn't have to try hard to hit that goal. Whether or not it will steal any thunder from the competition is another matter.

ateixeira

For sure it will sell better, but they keep catering less and less to enthusiasts, which is a shame.

I laughed when Consumer Reports ran it in their slalom and the 5er was slower than a Genesis.

That's not supposed to happen...it waters down the meaning of the brand. They can only coast on previous brand cachet for so long.

Any how, it'll be interesting to see if Lexus lets the F division loose on that new, better platform.

fintail

Lexus might have a risk with the F division - alienating the typical vanilla ice milk Lexus enthusiast who would faint if someone sneezed too loud. Probably going to be baby steps from that side of the fence.

That CR test amuses me. I would like to know the exact equipment on each car, and if anyone else could replicate it. Could a V8 Genesis beat a barebones 528i? Doesn't sound impossible to me. As you know, a base model BMW is very base and the brand cachet is as strong as ever. I don't think it can evaporate in the manner it did for Caddy - as it is a global ideal.

GS will need less blandness, and to survive outside of this market, more engine and transmission options. I have read a diesel is finally being considered...offer that here and they'd sell.

ateixeira

What they can do is keep the base models soft for the manicure set, then offer an F-Sport package, and make it clear that it's not just cosmetic.

Is it tougher, though, because customers have a certain expectation. And they may not conquest BMW buyers even if the GS *is* sporty. They've gotta get people to look first.

Then you've got price pressures - local M-B dealers offering $4000 cash if you trade any competitor, at least locally. Couldn't believe it until I heard the ad on the radio for a 2nd time on WTOP. They exclude only the SLS and the Sprinter.

The means a C-class costs peanuts, if you have a competitor to trade-in. Even the E-class comes in range for a lot of folks, especially if you're leasing. I guess the GS will be compared to that.

Where's the C250 diesel? $4k on that would have impact.

fintail

Yep, just like what everyone else does. Having all models being a varying degree of iso-tank only gets you so far. When everyone knows that's what you are, some won't look. And cachet outside of this market helps, too.

I am not seeing that conquest rebate advertised here, only some sweetheart end of model year finance deals. Base MSRP on a C is just over 30, E is just under 50...with a little negotiation and that rebate they can be very competitive - but remember, a base car is pretty base. Germans do a lot of ala carte options, so you can easily have option loads that are 40%++ of base MSRP, and that's excluding tuned models.

C250 diesel will base in low 30s, easily getting into 20s with that rebate (if it applies to the 2012s and not leftover 2011s). Haven't heard many specifics about the C diesel yet, but it will find buyers - I have seen a few W212 bluetec on the road.

But Lexus has traditionally undercut the Germans, especially spec for spec, so maybe the pricing won't be such an issue.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/28/vilner-takes-on-scion-iq-tries-to-outdo-aston- - -martin-cygnet/

Given the high starting price they should all come like that!

fintail

I saw a couple of those dorky things on the road in Germany. To be fair though, no more dorky than a Smart.

The Aston Martin one will be hilarious, I hope we get it.

ateixeira

What I don't get is the price. $16 grand, while a Yaris is $13,155.

You lost a lot of space for that $3 grand premium, too.

They'll sell a few of them, but once the novelty wears off these will join the ForTwo in the "consumer repellant" aisle.

anythngbutgm

2012 Camry hybrid

Not much changes over the current model but I like the sheet metal a little more. Funny, there is an advertisement on the page for the new Mazda 6 which I think is probably the best looking car in it's class (the Altima SEV6 and Accord EXV6 are close IMO) but the comparing side by side, it's funny how Camry-esque the 6 looks to me now.

Still, I will be curious about the interior redo and the efficiency. With the Sonata selling briskly and competition from the Accord (new for 2013) the Altima (2012?) the Fusion and the Kia Optima the Camry really needs to be on top of its game to maintain its best selling status.

ateixeira

Nice catch.

Reminds me of what Cadillac did with the STS a generation or so ago - send it to the dry cleaners for a little more starch.

Translation - they creased all the edges.

I don't like the front bumper and grille, hopefully it looks better from different angles. The profile and especially the C-pillar are nice improvements, though.

stever

Toyota Profit Plunges 99 Percent (AutoObserver)

(Of course, they still made a profit. :-))

gagrice

I see Lexus down 18% for the month and 18% for the year. What happens to people with a Lexus lease that is up this year and the dealers do not have anything in stock they want. Will they give them another year at a reduced rate to keep them as customers until they get the supply to the dealers? I would think many would just turn the Lexus in and lease a German luxury vehicle.

ateixeira

I'm sure some get lease extensions, others buy something else. I don't think that client is the most patient of customers.

Despite the quarterly loss, they're recovering faster than expected and they actually raised their profit outlook for the full year:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110802/COPY01/308029851/149- 0

Very informative article, BTW, all the numbers that matter are in there. Basically production will actually increase this year vs. 2010, Hyundai is enemy #1 due to lower costs, and the strong Yen is hurting them pretty bad. I'm surprised the quake didn't devalue the currency.

What they really need is for people to like that new Camry we just saw. Recent models with those bulging headlights have actually outsold their predecessors, but the mid-size sedan segment is very conservative, so let's see how it's received.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/04/toyota-shows-next-avalon-to-dealers-rumors-su- ggest-it-looks-lik/

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/04/lexus-teases-2012-gs-350-ahead-of-pebble-beac- h-debut/

The concept was a hybrid, though, and a lot of times a hybrid model doesn't look as good. Too much "dressing" is common.

I see Audi influence in the LEDs and grille.

anythngbutgm

Really curious what the next GS is going to do in the marketplace. Seems the last one wasn't nearly as popular as the gen before it...

Now, a real SC replacement would be welcome next

ateixeira

They're supposed to do a coupe.

The IS will also be based on a shortened version of this platform, so it's an important one.

I remember the last GS came out the same time the Infiniti M was launched, and all the reviews I read preferred the M.

This time Lexus waited, the new M is out, so no excuses.

fintail

Audi is the up and comer, trying to ride some coattails, no doubt. And really, it can't be more boring than the old GS, nothing in that category is.

Fanboys will declare it the best thing in the world, of course.

tjc78

I never quite understood the GS in Lexus's lineup. The IS is the sporty car, the ES/LS is the pillow soft isolated luxury car. The GS kind of fits in the middle and does neither the sport nor the "lux" barge type thing well. The interior is fairly tight, the ride is firm but doesn't handle as well as the competition. I like Lexus alot, but the GS is too much of a "tweener" to me. Its trying too much to be a Lexus and a BMW/Infiniti at the same time. Do one thing and do it well.

By the way Lexus really copied BMWs interior center stack with the shots that were posted of the upcoming model.

fintail

In 1998, the GS was pretty nice, decent engines, you could even get a manual. But they dolloped on the iso-tank image, and the very overdue replacement was just a boring and expensive mid-range highline blandbox. As you say, no sport, no special lux, it just kind of exists. I can't think of a single reason one would be chosen over the competition, other than cheaper longterm maintenance. When it comes to driving, it offers nothing more.

Audi front and BMW guts...I know Lexus dearly wants more presence in Europe...I guess if you can't beat em...

ateixeira

Giugiaro designed the first one, aka Toyota Aristo overseas. After that CALTY took over, Toyota's California design studios, and I agree they've never lived up to that first one.

I think Lexus was trying to please those who wanted a cushy car while pretending to be sporty. So the car ended up pleasing neither target customer. If I wanted something like that, I'd just get a Genesis and save $20 grand. Who needs the label?

I feel the opposite way from fintail, though. He says fanboys will love it no matter what. I feel like the market is very reluctant to accept a sporty Lexus, i.e. it has a significant handicap.

Look at the IS-F. It matches the M3 on the track, yet German fanboys will never accept it because it lacks a manual. Never mind that AMGs don't have one, either.

I don't see the fanboy-free-pass that fintail refers to. I see a strong resistance to accept Lexus.

So if the GS is merely par it will still fail in the market.