Toyota on the mend?

gagrice

Personally the 2002 Camry was more aesthetically appealing. Then I don't like all that crap hanging down to get knocked off on the concrete bumpers in the parking lots. Just another good reason to own PU trucks and SUVs.

andys120

Is the Toyota commercial over? :P

ateixeira

I'd go back further - one generation back. Camry was the first in that class to upsize, and that's when sales took off.

Is that photo a production model? It almost looks like a hybrid concept.

I never liked that protruding schnoz. It looked like they had to do it to meet Euro pedestrian crash standards, yet this Camry is not sold in Europe, so it never understood it.

The new hood has a more normal shape, no such protrusion.

gagrice

Wasn't the HS250h a flop? It got 35 MPG. Why do you think the 2012 GS hybrid will sell any better? If it is off the HS chassis as I just read it seems like a non starter.

gagrice

You can take your pick. I don't see a lot of change from the last gen.

http://www.google.com/search?q=2012+camry+photos&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=dsH&r- ls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnsu&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=kC9V- TqFb6q2wAuPomJUH&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=865

gagrice

I could probably like this if I had solar panels. It would make a fun around town rig.

ateixeira

Let me correct myself - the Camry I was thinking of was actually 2 generations before the photo you showed.

Any how...

Was the HS a flop? Well, it didn't meet Lexus' expectations, but it still outsold its closest competitor (MKZ hybrid) 2 to 1. So it depends on whether you see the glass half empty, or half full.

GS is not related to the HS. The HS is basically a european Toyota (Avensis IIRC) platform with a Camry hybrid powertrain. The CT has a Prius powertrain, but it's not based on the Prius, see them side by side and the CT seems a foot lower for instance.

The GS isn't related to either, it's a new RWD platform that will underpin the next IS. The others are FWD platforms.

It's not like the A8 hybrid will do any volume, FWIW. It could end up being the most expensive 4 banger in the world. Audi should have done a TDI Hybrid, now *THAT* would have been interesting. A4 or A6 based, too.

ateixeira

I haven't seen a Scion iQ up close yet. Auto show season is a few months away...

They priced it too high IMHO. The EV would compete with the iMiev, most likely, but that's gonna bomb because Mitsubishi priced it WAY too high.

fintail

I have to wonder what is holding back the diesel hybrid. The Germans could do some amazing stuff with that ideal...but they don't.

hpmctorque

I understand your comment, but in case you're wondering I don't work for Toyota, and never have. In fact, I've never worked in the auto industry, and have never even owned a Toyota. My comments are wholly based on what I've read, and I'm impressed with the improvements on the '12 Camry. With so may Camry owners, I thought it'd be interesting to hear other peoples' views.

ateixeira

I've always felt a diesel hybrid could be EPIC, the one to bring down the Prius.

Think about it - diesels are great on the highway, electric for the city...

Start/Stop diesels come close...but that's like a mild hybrid. Consumers want full-blown, no excuses hybrids. That's why the Civic and Insight have watched Prius sales run away from them.

So let's see a full hybrid TDI.

hpmctorque

Cost is one deterrent. Also, the percentage improvement in fuel economy for a diesel hybrid is less than for a gasoline hybrid. These factors don't rule diesel hybrids out, but they are headwinds.

bobw3

from cars.com http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimCompare.jsp?acodes=USC10TOC161A0,USC10TOC021B- 0 you can get a Prius for about the same as the Camry. The Prius has more cargo space, slightly more front legroom, slightly less rear legroom, and a few inches less hip/shoulder room. So to me, if you're mostly only having 2 in the rear seat (where the extra hip/should room only matter) than the Prius would be the better choice, but if you regularly need to carry 3 in the back, then get the Camry. The price is about the same for a Camry or Prius, but the MPG is much better with the Prius

kduell

I AM GETTING CODES P0125, P2440 AND B2799. MY QUESTION: IS CODE B2799 ENGINE IMOBILIVER SYSTEM CAUSING THE OTHER CODES AND DO I NEED TO TAKE IT TO THE DEALER TO CLEAR CODES.

tlong

I AM GETTING CODES P0125, P2440 AND B2799. MY QUESTION: IS CODE B2799 ENGINE IMOBILIVER SYSTEM CAUSING THE OTHER CODES AND DO I NEED TO TAKE IT TO THE DEALER TO CLEAR CODES.

I WOULD BE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ENGINE IMOBILIVER AND WOULD ASK THE DEALER FOR ASSISTANCE.

explorerx4

You did cut and paste from another source without giving credit, so it was right to call you out on that.
Not at all a Toyota fan, but I think they did a smart job allocating their reduced resources to improve the Camry.
Ford has used this strategy for a while, upgrade everything but the power train, then upgrade that a year or 2 later.

ateixeira

It would not be cheap, true, but think about the bragging rights if it could claim the best hybrid MPG.

Also, Audi is a premium brand so the cost would be a smaller % of the total purchase.

ateixeira

It's sedan vs. 5 door, basically.

ateixeira

We talked about this before, here's the judgement:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/24/kyle-busch-reportedly-loses-license-for-45-da- ys-for-speeding-in/

Glad to see the racer didn't get special treatment.

ateixeira

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCN76p9P4DI&feature=player_embedded

I'm surprised they found the hybrid peppy. They liked that one and the SE.

One mistake - the LE is actually $200 less, but as mentioned in this thread they deleted the power driver's seat.

gagrice

I think the fine was too small for the crime. Out on some wide open highway maybe, not in a 45 MPH zone. I'd have given him jail time to make him lose points in the Sprint Cup circuit.

ateixeira

Better yet, make him serve time DURING the season.

I agree 100%...

ateixeira

A bit more conservative, I think. The headlights are flat at the bottom:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/25/toyota-ukraine-reveals-new-camry-for-other-pa- rts-of-the-world/

The hood seems to bulge up, I wonder if that's necessary to meet pedestrian crash standards in that region?

ateixeira

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q3/2012_toyota_camry-first_drive_revie- - w

Coming from Csaba that is high praise. He's hated Toyota for decades.

I think while he was Editor-in-Chief there wasn't a single Toyota on their 10Best list. In fact once Toyota pulled advertising from the mag.

Per the article the hybrid battery does not give up capacity, yet they squeezed more room out of the trunk now. It lost more weight, too, and it's quicker than the old hybrid and also quicker than the base 4 banger. I bet the hybrid sells well.

He still complains about numb steering.

I could not agree more with this:

Mercifully, this bestseller reverses the trend toward budget materials that we’ve seen on many recent Toyotas

I've said before, the new Sienna's interior took a significant step down from my '07. Hopefully they learned their lesson.

In a bizarre twist, the recent troubles may be the best thing that ever happened to them.

fintail

Kind of Lexus-ish to me. I can't imagine the Russian sphere has pedestrian regulations.

ateixeira

I saw Lexus-ness in it as well. A cleaner, sharper nose, basically.

Is Lexus sold in Ukraine? If not Camry can be pitched as more upscale.

ateixeira

Another racer caught misbehaving:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/26/will-power-fined-30-000-for-flipping-off-indy- car-officials-in-n/

gagrice

I'm sure I will donate a buck to the Penske bums. :confuse:

fintail

I was actually going to say I like it more than our version, but using "like" and "Camry" in the same sentence is difficult :shades:

Lexus is offered pretty much everywhere in the European/Russian sphere now, note I say offered and not sold. Camry was once sold in Europe too, pretty much identical to ours - but touted as a bizarro world parallel universe full sized kind of utilitarian car like a Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis or maybe more like Taurus/Impala. Camry there will just be a step up in size and content from Avensis or equivalent, not really any prestige.

ateixeira

Heard a rumor this Camry will be sold in China too, the Ukraine version.

robr2

That was my impression as well - this was ROW offering.

ateixeira

I heard it will supposedly only be 3700 lbs. That's a nice reversal from the bloat that has infected this class of sedan. Many competitors are over 2 tons, FWIW.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/30/toyota-smashes-electric-vehicle-record-with-7- -47-79-nurburgring/#continued

explorerx4

He's getting desperate. Now is hyping the 80's Buick Grand National.
I always wanted one of those, but I don't think he did.

ateixeira

Hindsight is 20/20, right?

Csaba was a vocal critic of the FWD GM10s that came after the GNX, so that's where he's coming from.

I agree, though, he wasn't a fan at the time, despite the RWD and plentiful power.

ateixeira

Toyota US was down 12.7%:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/toyota-reports-august-2011-sales-1288937- 68.html

Lexus cars up 6.2%, mainly due to the CT.

Check this out - the CT outsold the HS by more than 7 to 1! :surprise:

Imagine when they get the supply of CT models sorted out. That's gonna be a hit...

fintail

Around here I think the HS only sells when the dealer freshens up the loaner fleet. The insane lease deals they could be had for didn't even move many. Some things are too dull and beige even for the slanted L.

That being said, the CT might be their most appealing product - dull old and cramped IS, ES Supercamry, boring GS that nobody buys about to be replaced with a slightly more posh boring version, numb isotank LS, a gaggle of mall cruising SUVs for the nonworking demographic, the CT looks downright exciting, and surely what I would choose over a Prius.

explorerx4

'Lexus Cars', bad try at 'spin'. Total sales down over 12%.

berri

Lexus used to be a value leader in lux. However, today they offer little for the prices. I saw an ad today for a 36 month lease on an ES for $379, but read the fine print and the money down adds another $100 per month, so almost $500/month for a glammed up Camry - what a deal! At least they didn't resort to the lease ad trickery GM does by requiring a 39 month lease in the fine print.

fintail

Lexus still offers some value, especially in the LS and some SUVs, but the entire lineup is far from perfect, indeed. However, as the global market proves, the higher end isn't shopping only for value.

I think I remember some sweetheart HS leases at the end of last year for like $299, not bad.

ateixeira

Selective attention?

I believe I opened with:

Toyota US was down 12.7%

Which rounds to 13%, if you want to learn how to spin properly.

ateixeira

today they offer little for the prices

That's true, but the higher prices are to balance supply and demand. Incentives are way down.

They don't have as many cars to sell, may as well charge more for the few they do have to sell.

Automotive News just reported they pulled the Camry launch ahead by a couple of weeks. It was due in October, now it will launch in mid September.

I guess they were happy with public response to the Camry reveal.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/02/lexus-lfa-nurburgring-package-smashes-nordsch- liefe-production-re/

That means in one week they took both the production car and electric car records.

But it has no soul, right guys? LOL

fintail

The "if true" line in the article says something. I'd love to see a video...

ateixeira

Oh I'm sure we'll see a teaser image, followed by more, followed by spy pics, followed by spy vids, followed by a press release, followed by official photos, then vids, then Germany declaring war on Japan.

Something like that.

gagrice

I don't think that is an official time. I would expect a car that costs $200k more to be more than just 4 second faster. I would take the Porsche and keep the cash for gas.

The Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package costs an additional $70,000 on top of the already exorbitant $375,000 sticker of the regular LFA. It adds a host of aero aids, 10 more horsepower, and faster gearbox programming.

Still a Twitter rumor

I'll take the Porsche:

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/911/2011/2011-porsche-911-gt2-rs-first-drive.h- tml

ateixeira

I'll take neither. That's a beach condo price, not car.

Nice as the gt2 is, it still looks like your neighbors sub-$100k 911.

Can't use either to its full extent in this country anyway.

ateixeira

Where's xlu now? I guess there's silence when things get back to normal.

Camry: 30,185
Altima: 23,016
Sonata: 20,682
Accord: 18,439
Fusion: 17,925
Malibu: 17,840
Optima: 6,157
Legacy: 3,271
Passat: 314

fintail

Well, it's just a lap time, not a new product...I can't see why it would be kept secret. They need to hype it up asap, while they can, as it will only encourage someone to beat it. 10 years gestation needs to be milked for all it can, as it can be forgotten fast when displaced.

Interesting comment here re: Gumpert and Radical and age

explorerx4

you pointed out a minor success, but ignored the important info.
RAV4 and RX are way down. That's some of their bread and butter.
Maybe it's supply issues.