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Comments
Seen the Tundra ad with all the Fords in the background? Guess what working folks buy when they want a truck?
The dream continues....
I guess an improved marketing scheme is not in the cards. :sick:
DrFill
A few months back, some fellow was arguing that a shorter warranty was better than a longer warranty. I think he was also from Bizarro World.
They also had a shortage of 4 cylinder Sonatas. We have seen that time and again from all car makers including Toyota & Lexus.
Is that what you're tellin' me? :confuse:
And then you're TRYING to compare this to Tundra, where they didn't start making CrewMax until late April.
Then Toyota set a Tundra record in May. :surprise:
You are kidding me, right?
DrFill
By the way, autospies is the worst place to go to but I'll save that for another day.
Do us a favor.
Look up how many Veracruz were actually sold in June.
I'm breathless with anticipation. :surprise:
DrFill
Is that what you're tellin' me?
And then you're TRYING to compare this to Tundra, where they didn't start making CrewMax until late April.
Then Toyota set a Tundra record in May.
You are kidding me, right?
Again, let's go over this, as we have a thousand times already.
Sonata had a purposeful program to send its Sonata to the fleet in 2006. This is why you are seeing a decrease this year. The comparison year of year (YOY) is much skewed.
Yes, the Sonata shortage on I4s due to higher demand.
Yes, the Tundra is up, they better be for a new vehicle.
So now two sites have it wrong? :confuse:
DrFill
They need to stop smokin' that bud, and get to work, and leave Lexus alone.
You guys will fall for anything. Now they're trying to sell YOU on the fact that they can't keep up with demand, and they're not building cars, and not selling cars.
Can they even reach a sales goal before they start with the theatrics?
This is a much better joke than them selling out on Sonatas.
Is this the marketing firm of Haggen and Daaz?
DrFill
Talk about marketing - they got started in the Bronx and chose the name to make Americans think the "Scandinavian" brand was worth a premium.
Gotta be careful relying just on a brand name. :shades:
They need to stop smokin' that bud, and get to work, and leave Lexus alone.
You guys will fall for anything. Now they're trying to sell YOU on the fact that they can't keep up with demand, and they're not building cars, and not selling cars.
Can they even reach a sales goal before they start with the theatrics?
This is a much better joke than them selling out on Sonatas.
Is this the marketing firm of Haggen and Daaz?
Do you even read what you post? Keep in mind this is much of an unknown model - how many people actually knew of the Veracruz existence? Too few. So I would think 1,100 without much marketing is good starting point for a brand new model. This month we will likely see an increase again, and the same trend ongoing should follow, as more people get to know the Veracruz, which is on the same level as the RX, for good measure.
Geesh, you act like anything not on Toyota/Lexus level (sales-wise) is a failure.
Do you even know Hyundai's sale goal for a particular vehicle? Start doing that research first before saying something like, "Can they even reach a sales goal".
I am not even going to respond to your comments about "Hyundai should get back to work and leave Lexus alone", or "you guys fall for anything", before you prove to the forum you are able to state facts about Hyundai and not just unproven theories you had been trying to deceive others.
Just think, we could be closing in on Toyota Fearing Hyundai? Part IV by now, lol.
It clearly states 1400-1500 a month. They're not even there yet, and they're making public declarations!
What kind of crap is that? :lemon:
That'll be the day that you can speak for the forum. :sick:
I'm not gonna let you try to fool these people, and say Hyundai is doing a good job selling 1100 crossover SUVs. That is a joke!
If you bring Lexus into the converstaion, all bets are off! Hyundai is way out of line here. They can't sell what they've got, and now they want a piece of the best company to come along in 20 years?
Last I checked, I'm the one who is linking information that YOU didn't know. I have substantiated every post I have made.
The only one throwing stuff off the wall is you. Remember that.
DrFill
Only a true moron would cross-shop a Lexus RX and a Veracruz.
All I see from Hyundai is desperation, not competition. If their products are so great, start a line, and prove yourself. Earn your way.
They know they can't get that done. They can hardly sell what they've got!
Hyundai sets a meager goal of 500k this year. Where will they get 50k sales from? :confuse:
DrFill
Yes, Toyota WAS GIVEN LIMITS on how much horsepower, torque, and towing capacity they could build into their new trucks. Wonder why the new T100 sucked against Chevy and Ford? Toyota had no choice when it began production.
"The only thing that was going on at that time were import tariffs that made it cost prohibited for certain vehicles. That is why they started building here." That's your quote. But that's not all to the story. The high tariffs wasn't the only reason why Toyota built plants in the US. Evidentally you should obtain some learning on how it works in Washington. There were political reasons and economical reasons: it was an opportunity to increase the gross domestic product (no economic lesson here, don't have the time).
After years of daytrading and investing I've learned that there's more to a story than what you hear on the news. A lot that went on behind closed doors in Washington concerning foreign auto companies in the US market was spread through the daytrading community. We knew the reasons why the new line of Toyota trucks were being killed by Chevy and Ford back in the 90's. We knew what was going on with the auto makers and their lobbyists. One cool bonus of being a daytrader is that you learn stuff most others don't know cuz of "connections."
I agree with you that there are obstacles in Japan in preventing foreign companies in moving production to Japan. However, Ford was allowed to sell cars in Japan back in the 90's which ended up in disaster. The locals stopped buying Ford cuz of the bad quality.
The US auto makers have gained significant grounds in quality. Still the overall quality is behind Toyota and Honda. For some reason, Ford and Chevy and the others would rather be a follower than a leader in the quality area. And someone wanted to argue with me that GM has introduced new models lately, yeah, I agree. But introducing a new model doesn't automatically qualify it as a high-quality vehicle.
Back to the original point, it's not about saying who is right or wrong. But it's about letting you and others know that there is MUCH more to a story than what you think.
Tonight I stopped by a Toyota dealership to eye the trucks and suvs. I want a 4runner, but don't want to deal with a Toyota dealer. Toyota dealerships have one of the worst reputations when dealing with people. It may just be a Pathfinder. I love the bells & whistles on the Path. Didn't like the Highlander looks. But I'll keep reading and test driving.
Why is it that we all love to go look at the new cars but have a feeling of dread when we exit the street into the dealership? haha
No. the Accord last outsold the Camry in 2001 not just a couple years of ago like you are saying.
Yes alot of people do buy cars by word of mouth and what other people(their friends or family buy.) I wish people would do their reaserch on buying a car a little more carefully.
"That business model has worked on the upswing. But now that there have been several potholes in the reliability image for Toyotas, we'll see if selling the sizzle still works for knowledgeable buyers or not."
Thats true Toyota has hit a few potholes of late in terms of their great image for reliability so we will see if the few potholes that they have hit of late will catch up with them and put a dent in their sales numbers in the next few years.
I agree the Domestic are still the leaders in the pick-up segment and I do agree with your opinion above about the Tundra.
"I guess an improved marketing scheme is not in the cards."
Regarding the Veracruz vs Lexus RX, this is definately a marketing campaign. Hyundai is still trying to change perception of their brand. They are probably having some success with these commercials and they are going for it. They have nothing to lose from their stand point. Remember when Hyundai was approaching $20,000 for a car and a lot of people said they would never pay more than that for a Korean car. It may not be as well built as the Lexus, but they will find buyers for it.
You may want to try buying online or go to Carmax.
Nissan still builds a good car performance wise but the reliability numbers since the Carl Ghosn era have slipped. I mean look at Consumer Reports I mean Nissan's reliability is way down the charts whith Chrysler in the last issue of consumer Reports. I mean the only car from Nissan(not factoring in Infinti's reliability numbers) that has great reliability is the Altima V6(02-06 model.) Nissan's reliability in the 80's and 90's was very close to Toyota and Honda but not in the 00's. I trust a Mazda more than a Nissan nowadays mostly. Even Hyundai's fleet more reliable than Nissan's fleet of cars in the past couple of years. The only car I would at look from Nissan(not factoring in Infinti) is the Altima nowadays. The Altima Coupe looks interesting to me. The Pathfinder used to be pretty reliable but has slipped to average reliabilty. I used to like the late 90's Pathfinder.
Infinti is still pretty reliable on Cr's charts.
I am a little shocked that Hyundai would try to sell the Veracruz as a Hyundai and not sell the Veracuz under a new luxury nameplate but I guess Hyundai has such momentum right now that they are willing to take a shot to sell a car like the Veracruz in their line-up.
One of the things that I thought of when I first learned Hyundai was going to sell a car like the Veracruz was uh-oh Mazda Millenia all over again(good product but no prestige to back-up the product in order for it too sell.)
I don;t know the Toyota dealership by where I live I think is alright and they are pared with a Mazda dealer and yes I have bought a Mazda there before and the negotiatons for the Mazda went ok but of course the salesman that I purchased the car from only sold Mazda's.
Nissan is in trouble again, but maybe not as bad as Mitsubishi.
Nissan isn;t in big trouble in terms of company that is going to go under soon but their reliability is just not there like it used to be. I remember back in 1998-1999 or maybe 2000 even Nissan's reliability was up there Honda and Toyota but not anymore.
Mitsu-I think they are out of the woods for their departure out of the US market for the moment anyway because of the new Lancer and new Outlander.
The same might be said of Lexus in Japan. It took them 18 years to get up the courage to sell a luxury brand in their own market. They were afraid to compete against the superior reputation of MB & BMW. I think Hyundai is courageous to offer a luxury car under the Hyundai name. It may or may not work. If the Veracruz is good and keeps beating the RX350 in head to head match-ups, it will be a winner for them. Has me curious being in the market for a luxury SUV. I would not buy a new Lexus SUV. I would consider a year old LX470 after the huge depreciation hit.
You keep snearing at the sales numbers for Hyundai. Do you feel the same way about the Lexus models that are not selling in big numbers? Check out the sales figures for the Lexus LX, GX, GS, IS. Not very impressive, Eh? Now check out the Hyundai Sante Fe. Almost double last year to date. It is no small coincidence that the Sante Fe and Sonata are built in the same factory with an overall maximum capacity. Which would you push sales on?
What's this "beat" nonsense? Don't you think there will be another comparo, somewhere, where the Veracruz finished last? I do.
Do believe everything you read? Or just selective items.
BTW, average reliability nowadays should be considered good.
You can make a thousand cases for a non-luxury car being a "better buy" than a luxury car.
A $22k Mazda3 Grand touring will make you really think it's a $37k 328i. It's performance isn't far off, and it's interior is better.
Is anyone going to cross-shop a Mazda 3 and a BMW?
I've lost a lot of respect for MT. They've obviously fell into a trap set by Hyundai, and have sold out their credibility in the process. :sick:
Santa Fe is fine. Nothing for Honda or Toyota to worry about. Many crossovers, including CR-V and Rav4 ( the two best-selling SUVs in America) are benefiting from high gas prices, and people are trading in EXplorers and Tahoes or smaller CUVs.
Hyundai needs to sell some Soantas and Elantras. Since Camry was redesigned, Sonata sales have tanked. And Elantra hasn't exactly taken off since it's redesign. It looks like an lemon driving down the road. :lemon:
DrFill
Santa Fe is fine. Nothing for Honda or Toyota to worry about. Many crossovers, including CR-V and Rav4 ( the two best-selling SUVs in America)
Just think, this week we will have the June figures to spin into a winner for whomever we choose. See you at the races.
Again, sales numbers aren't total indication of success.
Ford sells close to a million units of F-150 every year, and Tundra sells _____ . So using your theory, then the Tundra is a failure too, right? You are way into the numbers and not the real story behind the numbers.
The bottom line, Hyundai Veracruz is selling extremely well, it sits on the lot in single-digit days. End of story.
If you bring Lexus into the converstaion, all bets are off! Hyundai is way out of line here.
Tell those to former Lexus owners who are now Hyundai owners.
I have substantiated every post I have made.
Right, is that like the time where you stated the next generation pickups will defn. benchmark the Tundra? Or, is it like the time where you claim consumers are not cross-compare/shop with Toyota/Hyundai products. You have proof of those, right?
You know it takes time, right? Not everything can be done overnight like you claim it is possible.
Bottom line, the Veracruz can compete with the RX. That is not a speculation on any stretch of the imagination.
Only a true moron would cross-shop a Lexus RX and a Veracruz.
Well, then I guess you just called a lot of people morons, as there have been a lot of cross-shop between the RX and the Veracruz. Further, a lot of former RX owners are now Veracruz owners.
Fair enough. I agree Hyundai has come a long way, and Toyota's anesthesia on American consumers will wear off some, but elevating the Veracruz to superiority based on a review is folly.
I don't think the Veracruz will really compete with the Lexus. People buy the Lexus for the badge, not because of its specs. It remains to be seen if the country club set with embrace Hyundai.
Why? Because they don't share your view?
Santa Fe is fine. Nothing for Honda or Toyota to worry about.
I personally know of one Rav4 and two CR-V's that weren't sold because the potential buyers bought a Santa Fe.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What? The Santa Fe is not something for Honda and Toyota to worry about? Well I think it is. I sat in a Santa Fe and was very impressed by it at an autoshow late last year that I attended.
"Hyundai needs to sell some Soantas and Elantras."
True Hyundai needs to sell some Elantra's and Sonata's because they are Hyundai's bread and butter products along with the Santa Fe.
"Since Camry was redesigned, Sonata sales have tanked."
While I am not a really big fan of the Sonata's styling Sonata sales have dropped off because of delined fleet sales. Last year at this time rental fleets accounted for 50% of Sonata's sales while this year up to May 2007 sales Sonata's rental fleet sales have accounted for 27.6% of sales so that marks a 22.4% drop in rental fleets sales so thus thats why Sonata sales so far this year have declined so heavily.
"nd Elantra hasn't exactly taken off since it's redesign. It looks like an lemon driving down the road."
Elantra sales are ok but but like you I don;t care for the styling of it.
Exactly!
If you are ready to tell me the 2009 Ford and Dodge will have less power than the 381HP in the Tundra, plus won't have Traction contols, side airbags, side curtains, limited slip, or VSC, than you have a point.
I'm trying to throw you a bone on Hyundai, and I'm allowing that Hyundai is reselling current customers, as they sure aren't picking up new customers.
All I've been hearing here is how the Sonata is just as good as Camry, but sales have accelerated for Toyota, and Sonata sales have skidded since the camry came out.
Maybe you're right, and people are putting both on their test drive list, and are driving home in Toyotas. :surprise:
I see your point.
My mistake.
DrFill
Sales of Escape are going down this year (-3%), and Rav4 is up (16%).
Tomorrow will show the Rav4 ahead again. Rav4 was 2nd at the end of April.
Rav4 will beat Escape this year, no problem.
DrFill
Logically that makes little sense. Just because the 2009 Dodge and Ford Pickups will have that doesn't mean that they benchmarked the Tundra. Maybe the Tundra benchmarked the Dodge and the Ford.
I'm trying to throw you a bone on Hyundai, and I'm allowing that Hyundai is reselling current customers, as they sure aren't picking up new customers.
They sure are attracting new customers. Just recently I mentioned the fact that the Santa Fe took away three customers from Toyota/Honda, I am sure there are plenty more.
All I've been hearing here is how the Sonata is just as good as Camry, but sales have accelerated for Toyota, and Sonata sales have skidded since the camry came out.
Again very poor logic, better sales does not mean a better product. Never has, never will.
Secondly Sales haven't skidded like you want people top believe. Sure sales last may were over 17K but as pointed out 50% were to fleets meaning that there were 8,518 sold in may of '06. May of '07 there were just over 12K in sales but as pointed out 27.6% were to fleets giving us a non fleet sales of 8,795 a 3.25% increase in non fleet sales. So much for Sonata sales skidding.
Maybe you're right, and people are putting both on their test drive list, and are driving home in Toyotas.
Not to sure about that I know several people that have test driven both and none of them bought the Toyota.
You still haven't given me a compelling reason to buy a Camry over a Sonata.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This is why I respect Toyota, they understand the market and more importantly, its rivals, contrary to your realm of understanding and refusal to acknowledge the existence of the rest of the league, much less the level of their game.
I'm not here to blow sunshine up anybody's skirt.
Again, my views do not reflect those of Toyota.
DrFill
The we found out that wasn't true.
Then Hyundais sales go down.
And that's because they are giving fewer away.
And Toyota Camry sales keep rising.
But that doesn't mean people want the car, or even like the car. Sales are just numbers, right? :surprise:
Exactly when should I get impressed with Hyundai Sonata, or Hyundai in general?
So if Hyundai sales don't go up, does that mean anything? Hyundai execs have no problem putting sales targets out there, and competing with Lexus for sales. Sending me Lexus comparisons on my Tivo!
So if Hyundai meets sales targets (Yeah, right! Over 10%!), does that mean nothing too?
When exactly does Hyundai mean something? They've improved quality, while taking two steps back in marketing. All-new line-up, but sales haven't changed.
So where do you go from here? :confuse:
DrFill
You have a lot to learn in this industry.
Again, my views do not reflect those of Toyota.
The first right thing you have posted. I wonder what would have happened if Toyota found out the things you are saying here...
That's like Hyundai comparing themselves to Lexus, ok?
I don't need to go to class to learn that.
DrFill
First of all I never said anything about Toyota selling anything to fleets.
Secondly show where it was proven false.
But that doesn't mean people want the car, or even like the car. Sales are just numbers, right?
Yep sales are just numbers, they show whats popular and nothing else. If sales were an indicator of what is better than McDonalds would have the best food around. We all know it doesn't.
Exactly when should I get impressed with Hyundai Sonata, or Hyundai in general?
Not sure about you but I got impressed when I drove them and when mine went 120k+ miles trouble. Now about you I don't think you will ever be impressed with them, or at least admit it.
So where do you go from here?
Lets drop sales and look at the two cars in an unbiased way if you are capable of doing so. Both cars are well built and will go well over 200K miles if well taken car of. Both are safe and get basically the same gas mileage. So now we go on price and what you can get for a set dollar amount. That is where Hyundai pulls a head of Toyota, overall I can get more for less.
So lets drop the Toyota is better just look at the sales crap and lets compare the two cars head to head.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D