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Comments
Pretty well describes me too.
Somehow, driving a popular or "prestige" badge doesn't make me feel any better about myself. I'm not one to say "Hey! Look at me! Look how successful and important I am!". That's why I like the Sonata, Camry, Accord, Fusion, Mazda6, etc. I once bought an upscale car just to treat myself, and felt like a fool. I could have bought a Camry or Accord and kept more duckies in the bank. :sick:
What I'm sayin' is comparing a Supra to a Ferrari was not seriously done then. It made as much sense as a Hyundai to a Lexus today. Or an Azera to a LS460. It's foolish to even bring up.
Hyundai, and it's backers, are grasping at straws, as it has shown the want to do.
Same with Ford and the Edge. Everybody wants a piece of The Rock! :confuse:
Seems Hyundai and Ford have more in common than Hyundai and 'Yota.
DrFill
One of the best vehicles Toyota has, or will, ever produced.
I'm developing Seperation Anxiety. It's a touchy situation! :mad:
DrFill
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
To each his own. Not everybody needs to pinch pennies when buying a car. I don't feel foolish at all driving a "prestige" car. Its OK to appreciate the finer things in life. Sure - the margin of separation between prestige and darn good is smaller than it used to be, but its still there.
People these days (at least around here) have more money, so to save 10 grand and put it in the bank to not feel foolish just doesn't compute to me.
Cars to many (men?) are one of the few things that bring a smile to one's face going out to the garage at 7am Monday morning on the way to work and seeing a nice ride there, waiting for your commands. I guess looking at the extra few dollars in your account you saved does it for you. Not me.
I guess Hyundai appeals to folks like yourself. It would appeal to me when they get on with this RWD V8 Genesis.
Sounds like my dad. After many years of saving and scimping, saving and scimping, he's amassed a fortune. But its just money sitting in accounts. He's now too old to enjoy all this money. Doesn't really want to go anywhere, do anything, or see anything.
I told him to buy a nice car - he went out and bought a used Cadillac. To each his own.
I'm all for saving but you only live once, and splurging here and there is good for my soul. And cars are a great place to do it. I'm intrigued by the Genesis as well.
Again, you are taking those 'Smart' ads way too literal. If you think "it's foolish to even bring up", then don't bring up the topic
And there you go with your "everything that's not a Toyota" bashing. What's wrong with the Edge? Sure it's got its flaws (as are every other vehicle), but it's also a great vehicle which excels in more areas than one.
MT needs to get to work on that! Vaildate my impending purchase.
Then I'll renew my subscription.
DrFill
Would you do me a favor and press "Reply" instead of creating non-threaded replies? That way, I can follow your glorious posts more easily, and won't have to scratch my head to figure out who you are replying to.
Thanks!
Now put it up against the tC and the Eclipse, and I wonder who would be the winner. It is such a shame that Toyota dumped the Celica for the totallyCrap.
What Hyundai should do is develop a 300 hp sport coupe off the new rear-drive chassis to sell at around $25K. They could shame the 350Z, the Mustang, and the upcoming Supra all at once. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think they are, and it's called the next generation Tib. It will be moved to RWD, which is the same platform underpins the upcoming BH luxury sedan.
There are also strong hints the Veloster concept sports coupe might slot in the current Tib spot, as far as price ranges are concerned.
If I have something to add, I will call you by name, and reference your most recent entry. Fair enough?
I gotta be me.
And I broke that Benoit story to CNN, now the biggest story at ESPN and CNN, right after my post here yesterday, and I got no credit (Contributing to the story...). I made the iReport to CNN.com at 4:30. AP didn't have it for another 2 hours. CNN didn't put it up until almost 8PM, and at the bottom of the page.
DrFill
If that 400HP hybrid does see the light of day, they can't call it Supra.
I don't know what to call it, but not that. :confuse:
DrFill
I think they are doing it right now.
http://www.bobaedream.co.kr/board/bbs/news_view.php?code=nnews&No=23045&Answer=29&page=1&select=Subject&content=BK">
You can click on REPLY and still change the title. (as above)
I reported that Benoit story to FoxNews at 3:30, and they already had it.
What is that? Tibby spy shot?
I am all for splurging occasionally. However, life is full of balancing acts. Very few of us have inherited a fortune, and most of us have to earn our keep. So, there is a limit on how much we have to spend. Personally, I need to balance between mortgage payment, utilities, saving for retirement and kids' college, eating at good restaurants, enjoying a vacation in Hawaii, going to concerts and sports events, ... , paying for the car and related expenses.
I like cars, but they are pretty low in my list of priorities. I am past the age to impress women with flashy cars, and not old enough to have a car as a projection of my personality. When I wanted that BMW, I could not afford it. Now I do not want it. As the other poster said, I set my budget and then go around to find the best in that range. Yes, the range is flexible, but I want to know what I am paying for, and its value to me. I am not an impulse buyer, and track record is important for reliability. This is where Toyota shines, as of today.
Back to the topic- May be Hyundai makes great cars, even better than Toyota. But an average buyer like myself will look at their long term reliability - 12-15 years. Until then, they have to rely on buyers with a lot of money and willing to experiment with newcomers. So, IMO, Toyota needs to keep an eye on Hyundai (and other competitions), and at least maintain the lead it currently has.
I am going to do a little splurging soon - from Xenon headlights (halogens are good enough) to AT (I can drive a stick), more directed towards comfort and luxury as opposed to burning rubber kind of driving thrills. I guess most buyers are like that, keeping Camry/Accord at the top of the best seller list. If you think that is not car quality but good marketing, they are successful at it. They have proved their point in balancing the mpg, HP, comfort and reliability.
OK, I'll step off the pedestal now. Best wishes, - MS.
These are exciting times.
It doesn't surprise me that Fox had it first, but they have a record of not looking before they leap (2000 Election). :sick:
DrFill
although the Xb was aimed at the young adults, that it ended up that lots of middle-aged adults were buying them. I wish I could recall where I read that. Anyway, I did see the new generation Xb on the road the other day. It does look better on the exterior than the previous model.
Getting back to the forum, I now understand DrFill's "understated" attitude and allegiance to Toyota - he's a New Yorker, maybe from the borough of Queens (given the reference to Northern Blvd. (25A)?? This says it all!
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/10/spy-shots-hyundais-rwd-coupe/
If they had released it head-to-head with the played-out Mustang 2-3 years ago, they could've gained some market share. The Eclipse was heading into the abyss. And the Mustang awaits it's beheading at the hands of the Next Camaro.
It won't get a sniff of the market once the Camaro hits. :sick:
A new name is in order, and a $25k price tag, loaded $28k. It's not a G37. Keep your head out of your pants!
DrFill
Considering the 1 series BMW is also coming next year (under 3000 lbs, RWD, 230 hp, for upper 20s) I'd have to agree.
This new Gen xB will reach a wider audience I think.
far more powerful engine but worse FE
PW, PL, PM, cruise ctrl
Pioneer sound system
better seating and wider wheelbase
Stability Control & Traction Control
ABS/BA
Side and curtain airbags
Under $18000 !!!! That's about a $6000 discount from where it should be wrt other Toyota models.
Since we are in this forum too. When the Scions were first launched and explained to the retail stores. There were three goals given for the Scion experiment...
..attract a younger clientele;
..experiment on a new method of retailing vehicles;
..keep buyers from defecting to Hyundai!!
Yet, when it comes to the Japanese market, Hyundai is not even a minor player."
Cover Story: Japan next (asahi.com)
HHR isn't exactly Mt Everest. Who died and made HHR an icon?
DrFill
..attract a younger clientele;
..experiment on a new method of retailing vehicles;
..keep buyers from defecting to Hyundai!! "
If this is true, and did come down from the corporate level, then it would prove that on some level, Toyota does fear Hyundai.
I find it amazing that the good doctor cant find anything good to say about Hyundai.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think it's human nature. Lots of folks get ideas stuck in their head, and when the facts change, they can't or won't adjust to them. That's a real problem for the car industry, because it negates some really great innovation.
I find it amazing that the good doctor cant find anything good to say about Hyundai.
The 1 series is a coupe - like the Tiburon. Probably will be bigger than a Tiburon.
I find it amazing that the snake can't find anything bad to say about Hyundai.
although the Xb was aimed at the young adults, that it ended up that lots of middle-aged adults were buying them. I wish I could recall where I read that. Anyway, I did see the new generation Xb on the road the other day. It does look better on the exterior than the previous model."
I too saw a report on the Scians that the average age was 42-years-old. Toyota didn't accept or recognize this because it was not what they are trying to market. In my opinion I think that whole line-up is mediocre at best. The price, mileage, and style, are not good when compared to the competition
Here's the problem I see with Scions...They are just too "quirky" (Tc excluded). You get a lot for your money, along with the Toyota reliability, BUT, a lot of folks have a hard time getting past the styling.
To keep this post on track (Hyundai vs Toyota), when it comes to Hyundai, you also get a lot for your money, but you get bland styling versus the Scion's quirky styling. A lot of buyers will choose bland styling versus quirky styling, because it is "safe".
The Tc is a nice looking vehicle. I actually considered one for my last vehicle purchase, but after reading all the complaints about interior rattles, and looking at the amount of plastic on the inside of that thing, I was turned off. I think the Civic coupe is a better built vehicle than the Tc (Just my opinion).
Would you like to try again?
1er exposed shots:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499
Everything's bigger than a Hyundai, then when the the official measurements are in, Hyundai always seem to be one class higher than its competition.
What impressed me about the Acura salesman we talked with is his intimate knowledge of all the competing vehicles. I don't get that impression here from you. Nor have I from any of the Toyota, Honda, Mercedes or BMW sales people I have visited.
I think you are afraid to take an Azera or Veracruz for a good test drive. You would probably like them so well you could not be an effective Toyota salesman. That was the case with my friend that sold Buick and switched to Toyota. He lasted about a year and went back to Buick sales. It is hard to sell something you do not believe in unless you are totally jaded.
Hyundai is fine, and obviously their vehicles have made quantum leaps, in quality and function, but I don't know how much of a compliment that is.
As I've said before, Ford and GM have made major improvements too. Why should Hyundai get extra credit?
Building a good vehicle is actually the easy part. You have control over that. Hyundai has taken control of that for what, 3 years? Tell me when I'm supposed to be impressed.
Toyota, and Honda, are leaders because they not only made quantum leaps within their abilities, but within the entire industry.
Hyundai is fine. Better than Ford? Ford just won like 5 segment quality awards. :surprise:
I don't have a problem with Hyundai. They build good cars.
My thing is that's not enough anymore. 10-15 years ago, yeah.
My problem is everybody here wants to give Hyundai credit for doing things they should've been doing for the last 15 years, and they're just getting around to it.
Mazda makes excellent vehicles. Should Toyota fear them? In style and function I'd buy 2 Mazda3s before I look at an Elantra. Same with the CX-7 over a Santa Fe.
The Hyundai name is a devalued piece of property, that is in rehabilitation, in a poor neighborhood. It looks nice on the outside, but it'll be a while before market value improves. It still has a lemon stench. Well-earned, BTW. :lemon:
Hyundai wants credit fast-food style, and they have to get in line.
I'll invest in companies that ALWAYS get the job done. Not when they feel like it. That goes for Ford, Chrysler and alike.
Hyundai is just another company, and the market agrees.
Drive a Hyundai? For what? For what?
I'd like to drive a Mazda. At least they're fun!
Building a good car is step one, not the end of the journey to credibility. :surprise:
And regarding what I know, or don't, I know Hyundai hasn't climbed any mountains. They are at some base camp, getting ready for the next leg of the trip upwards.
This is chess, not checkers. You don't go to the front of the line with a couple of good surveys. Ask Ford. Ask GM.
I know more about Hyundai than I really care to. Mazda makes more impressive cars, by far, but they have their own flaws.
Hyundai needs to get out of the Mazda class before I give them more credit.
DrFill
I'd like to drive a Mazda. At least they're fun!"
See - I feel the same as you. Nothing in the Hyundai line up at the moment evokes any "passsion" with me. There is just nothing that strikes me as being fun to drive.
However, I think the same can be said for Toyota. The Camry, Corolla, Avalon, Solara, Yaris, Prius don't strike me as being fun to drive either. About the only thing in the Toyota line up that really calls out to me is the FJ Cruiser, but from what I have read about it, the lack of visibility, and requirement for premium fuel would cause me to remove it from my shopping list. Toyotas are awesome cars from a reliability standpoint, but they also lack the "fun factor" that Nissan and Mazda have been able to capture.
Actually, if you think Hyundai is a niche, then you'd certainly be surprised how many people in the US knows about the Mazda brand (or lackthere of), despite the popularity of the MX-5. There is some market research you likely hadn't known.
You say everyone gives too much credit to Hyundai because they should have done it already 15 years ago? Just a short while ago, I think you said 20-25 years behind. Anyway, hello, WAKE UP!! Hyundai only came to the US some 20 years ago. How long did it take for Toyota to become where they are today?
Perhaps you've given Toyota too much credit
but not with your view on Toyota reliability. They are not a standout any longer, the gap has been closed.
I agree with you on the FJ. The visibility is a downfall, you can run them on regular with perhaps a slight drop in performance. They are a "special" use vehicle in my mind.
For what the FJ is capable of (very good off-road), they would be not at all practical for 99% of the population.
As far as I'm concerned though, they are Toyota's best looking vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they are substantially better than everyone else, I am just saying that their reputation for reliability is one of the biggest, if not the biggest attribute (selling points) to their products.
I think Honda is able to play the reliability card as well, however, they also incorporate that "fun factor" into some of their vehicles. This is where my preference for Honda comes in - they have a lot of vehicles that actually appeal to "enthusiasts".
One thing I will give Toyota for, is the Tacoma. I don't think there is a better pick up currently offered in that segment.
May I step in to this discussion? :shades:
Two things I see - Hyundai is a major underdog, and some people just love an underdog. They've made the greatest strides lately.
The other is value. Sure GM and Ford have great prices, but Hyundai was smart - they made safety features like curtain air bags and stability control standard on many models just as GM was deleting stability control from some models to try to remain cost competitive. And the first year Fusion didn't have those things standard, either.
That is why I think Hyundai is getting extra credit.
If you disagree, look at the van segment. GM bailed out, they just couldn't do it. The Uplander just wasn't up to par, while the Entourage is. The Freestar is just trucky, and also uncompetitive.
I sat in a Spectra the day I test drove a Kia Sedona and I swear it was much nicer inside then the HHR I had just seen at the Chevy dealer.
So MAYBE its gonna be a little bigger than the 1. Who knows? We don't know anything about the Tiburon so I'm not sure what I'm trying again.
Shoot, Toyota MIGHT do a RWD coupe....but so might 5 other companies.
Maybe? it's called confirmed. RWD. I4 Tubro 220+ & V6 - 300 horses. Yeah Hyundai just likes to do testings of upcoming vehicles for fun.
The fact you don't know anything about it doesn't mean others don't...
1 series
Personally I love Bimmers (was a 5er owner) but the 1er I posted is ugly as a sin, IMHO. If they do drop the twin turbo, then I am inclined to be entertained.
Just FYI, the 3er is way to small, for me at least, unless BMW reconfigures the dimensions somehow, I'd probably not be impressed by the interior space of the 1er.
Toyota isn't here to compete with Hyundai, or Mazda. Toyota can make sporty cars like Mazda, but, as we've seen, the market doesn't want sporty Toyotas. So Toyota invest in their brand, which is not a sporty brand.
Hyundai needs to sweat Hyundai. Nissan slid down that mountain, trying to out-Toyota Toyota. Hyundai needs it's own identity.
Mazda's job is to build the cars it knows how to build, sporty cars. They do that very well. They are true to their identity. But it is a niche.
I don't "sell down" Hyundais. I sell Toyotas.
And selling the brand is just as important, maybe more, than selling the car.
Hyundai needs to build a brand, and this will take a good while to do, properly. No way around it.
If Toyota, or Honda, continues doing their thing, Hyundai is not an issue. A non-factor.
Build cars that build trust. This takes time.
Hyundai will do this no better, or faster, than anyone else. the market will tell you when you have arrived.
Hyundai needs a '92 Camry. :shades:
If this Genesis were the start of a new brand, then I'd say they could be onto something, but I don't see a business plan. The car needs a plan. Where is it?
I see a company that has potential, but thinks they know everything. And they are throwing spaghetti.
Learn from history. Be humble. Show patience. Sell one car at a time.
I don't have a problem with Hyundai. They just need to grow up. They're like a 13-year-old that wants to be treated like an adult. :confuse:
DrFill
All kiddings aside, and with all due respect, I don't think Hyundai is as "inmature" as you chalked it up. The tremendous growth Hyundai has experienced, I think they would know how to continue and run its operation better than anyone else. You, me, and everyone else here included.
Question, do you have this much time to be on here? Didn't you say the dealership where you work is always flocked with customers. Time to deal!!
Just curious - I remember early in 2006 you were asking for advice on how to be a good internet sales guy for a position you had accepted at a Dodge dealership (wasn't that you)? How long have you been selling Toyotas now?