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Comments
That sucking noise you hear is your loss of sales as the buying public wises up.
I know you didn't just put Hyundai and a sucking noise in the same sentence. Oh no you didn't! :sick:
How could you let her daughter buy a Camry? Didn't you tell her about the dozens of people who would get one over a Camry? :P
Couldn't sell her daughter either, huh? Well, who could blame ya.....
You have conveniently glossed over the fact that Toyota dumped the Cressida in favor of the ES250 that was not even close to the Cressida. They hoped the LS400 would carry the fancy Camry rebadge ES250.
Yeah, Lexus totally botched that. They went right down the tubes! What was that all about? :confuse:
You should work for Lexus, and get their game straight.
DrFill
Let me understand this clearly, what you are saying, Hyundai owners keep their cars too long, so their sales are lagging. Wow, that makes so much sense.
This is your camp's train of thought I've been forced to follow for too long now. You were trying to make a point and got lost, and I tried to crystallize it, but probably also fell into your Twilight Zone. :confuse:
I just regurgitated what I'm hearing.
Garbage in, garbage out. Makes we want to....regurgitate. :sick:
DrFill
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109710/pageNumber=10
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/06/01/050199.html
$2k on the hood, and all your friends buyin' it, and you still can't move that sled?
Anyone else hear a toilet flush?
DrFill
15 years ain't happenin' with Toyotas! The warranty is only 5 years!
My man Jim wouldn't say that.
Better not let the CEO of Toyota hear that, or your man Jim will be looking for a job.
Give Toyota some credit. There are some very smart people running that organization.
I will respond even though most of your posts are unintelligible. My aunt was going to trade her Cressida in on a new Camry. When she drove the Camry she could not believe how much Toyota had gone down hill in the last 16 years. She loves her new Sonata. Not going to be an uncommon occurance. :sick:
I thought that was up to you. You laid out a plan for Hyundai's success in an earlier post.
Hey Fill, do you remember why Toyota made a spinoff brand name? I don't know all the reasons, but the widely accepted perception was that Toyota's name wouldn't be accepted on expensive near-luxury models. People would say "I ain't spending that much money on a TOYOTA, for goshsakes". I think Hyundai will need a lot fewer years to shake their brand stigma than Toyota.
Do not misread me. This is not Toyota bashing. They have a great company, and make wonderful cars. You just need to accept the reality that not everything about the company and the cars are perfect. You need to accept the reality that other, less expensive cars can equal or better Toyota at some things. Not in 25 years, but today.
If I said Hyundai cars were better in every way then Toyota cars, my credibility would drop to zero, and deservedly so. How about you? Maybe a little introspection is in order.
I just regurgitated what I'm hearing.
Garbage in, garbage out. Makes we want to....regurgitate.
When someone's asking for clarification, they are not trying to make a point but rather the person is (I was) only looking to gain an understanding and clarify what you were trying to say. Let's not get defensive and start personal attacks here.
To recap, you said,
I guess that's why Hyundai sales don't go up. Owners are waiting 15 years to get their value.
And I asked,
Sales are lagging b/c owners keep their cars too long? I just wanted to put the logic together, that was all
RE: V6 family comparison. I assume you read the entire review and the second opinion from the editors, right? I am also assuming you read the comparison earlier to this between the Accord, Camry, and Sonata, right?
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109710/pageNumber=6
RE: Hyundai May sales - ??? I am just as confused as the comparison links the reasons you posted.
Bottom line? I'll take the $25,000 Hyundai with its more-than-adequate content and gets-the-job-done performance. Pile on its 100,000-mile powertrain and five-year roadside assistance warranties, and it's probably the smartest buy of the bunch.
Its on page 6.
A little hint, if you are going to reference an article to promote Toyota make sure it doesn't say that the Sonata is the smartest buy in the bunch.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It's as if your punches get weaker, and weaker......
Maybe next week you will be more challenging.
Not holding my breath of anything.....
DrFill
Maybe you guys need more friends.....
To convince.
Still only need 5....10 years? Right.
DrFill
Have a nice weekend!
DrFill
Edmunds can't wait to disagree.
As good as the last Camry, maybe.
I was hoping to have a better leap frog partner.
Toyota will have to slow down a little bit.
Or a lotta bit.
Or choose a better partner (Honda?).
DrFill
Edmunds can't wait to disagree
Again let me repeat what edmunds said:
"Bottom line? I'll take the $25,000 Hyundai with its more-than-adequate content and gets-the-job-done performance. Pile on its 100,000-mile powertrain and five-year roadside assistance warranties, and it's probably the smartest buy of the bunch."
There right in black and white Sonata being the smartest buy in the bunch. Sounds like Edmunds agrees with me at least and not with you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Maybe a smart buy for the few that are buying them.
Hyundai's gotta be disappointed with those sales numbers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You post a random link and expect someone to know from your confusing post in the first place what you were trying to say...geesh...did you even take the time to do a little research before posting?
See the following post for the Sonata; as for the Camry, for a new car, and a new variant - hybrid, and increased fleet sales, I would be surprised if the raw number lost traction vs. last year's.
Actually I'd have to throw you a big no on that speculation. Based on my meetings with people within Hyundai, they are quite satisfied with the way the Sonata has performed so far. You could argue the Sonata is the car which put Hyundai on the map; the Sonata is driving perspective buyers into the showroom, which also gives them a chance to preview other products as well. FWIW, Sonata's sale has improved quite a bit over the previous generation.
This so called sales dip is going to last throughout this year when compared to last year (YOY), as expected. Explained previously, Hyundai ran a purposeful program to get "as many butts into the Sonata as possible", in other words, to gain presence in the heavily contested mid-size class, as well as promote its brand name. The comparison between this year and last year is quite skewed but as said, the Sonata pitches more than just sales success over past generation, but also gaining traction for the brand.
Believe it or not, the major increase of the Santa Fe actually puts Hyundai at a better position. Hyundai is offering I4s and V6s across the Sonata trims for the 2008 model year, among other changes, which gives more choices for the consumers.
Let me be they first to toast Hyundai's success (ding)! :shades:
Don't you hear that rumbling noise? Is that an earthquake? No! It's a stampede! To see the Hyundai Sonata!
Not to buy it, just to see it. Oh yeah, I was there, man!
I think I read that in a Ford Sales press release somewhere. Now THAT is marketing at it's best.
Not that Hyundai would use a domestic sales pitch or anything.
No.
DrFill
I'm sorta with you on the Altima back end(well the 07 anyway) its kinda weird looking. I actally do like the 02-06 exterior look better than than the 07 model. The 02-06 Altima was a looker while the new one(07 Altima) just doesn;t do anything for me in terms of looks.
"Last generation Camry was not a beauty, though it was not ugly. The last generation Camry had better rear headroom also."
Last generation Canry was boring looking, the new one is alot better looking although the front grille look could use some work. I acttually do like the new generation amount of headroom: its a perfect amount of interior room for me overall.
Your right the Cressida did have alot of brand equity brand name wise.
"Dropping that to build the ES250 was the beginning of a long down hill slide."
I agree sort of because the Es250 wasn't exactly a big seller. However with that being said when Toyota renamed the the ES250 the ES300 and the ES 300*(or the ES Series as a whole) did sell well for the Lexus banner so Toyota just learned their mistakes that they made with the ES250 and thus thats why the ES 300(Well now ES350) became a good selling car.
"As that reputation is eroded by cheap interiors, rattles, squeaks and failing transmissions, what is left?"
Your talking about the 07 Canry quality well why would somebody buy a first year car of a new bodystyle because a a generation of car(5-6 year modelcyle) for the most part is going to have more problems in its first year of bodystyle than any other year of its model cycle.
"A company that looks a lot like GM did a few years ago."
GM was a discount automaker that sold cars at heavy
discounts a few years ago, Toyota is not that right now. However GM looks to becoming back a bit with their Saturn Line in paricular: the Aura is a good product even though styling is not for me, the the Saturn Outlook looks to follow in the Aura's suit in being a being a solid product.
"If Hyundai keeps their nose to the grindstone and does not get too carried away with numbers as Toyota has, they will be in a good position to pick up disgruntled ToyLex customers".
Tue, If people don;t have a good experience with a Toyota(or any other automaker for that matter) a customer most of the time will switch car brands.
I do think Toyota has been a much better run company than GM since at least the late 80's. However, I do think GM;s management has wiseend up since 2002-2003 and especially in the last couple of years particularly.
I agree with you that the Camry is new car(in it being redesigned) and the Camry having a hybrid variant has led to led robust sales for the Camry in the past year but do you have any proof of Toyota increasing fleet sales of rthe Camry from say like 2 years ago? I mean the new Camry was only out for 3 months time last year in it being released n March 2006 I think so Toyota couldn't have dumped that many 07 Camry's to fleets last year so of course the Camry has been on the market for awhile now so of course fleet sales would be increased from last years period.
I do agree though I wouldn;t be surprised for the Camrys sales to lose traction pretty soon due to the fact the 07 Camry was a brand new car last year and the new car novelty will wear off eventually especially with a new Accord and new Mazda 6 coming out pretty soon.
I think Ford is wiseing up now too.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The increase in sales? From weak (4500 cars)to disappointing (11,000 cars)? And that's satisfying?
You're obviously not in a sales position now. With those kind of results you'd be long gone - bumped for the next guy that doesn't have excuses, just results.
The car business isn't about building traction.
Depends on what you mean by "traction". If it means to build nice cars with outstanding price, quality, warranty, and a top-notch ad campaign, then I disagree. That's the way to get your product noticed. Even Toyota's massive feeding frenzy started with a nibble.
I expect sales to come back down to a more normal 425-435k for the rest of the generation, starting next year.
The '09 Corolla may also have an effect.
DrFill
The response (1995) is telling. No telling if the feeling will be the same in 1 year or 3 or 5 years....
I have no ties with any automaker. I work for a PR firm with a good number of our clients in the auto industry. If you've followed the auto industry long enough, you would not necessarily have to be in certain (sales) position to know sales are not the sole indication of success. Yes sales are important, but a lot goes into the success of a product, of a company. Having raw sales figures, even at gains, do not tell the whole story - there are more areas than one to consider here. But, what do I know, I've only been in marketing positions pretty much all of my life...
The car business isn't about building traction? Right, success to you are granted overnight, right?
Sidenote: the Veracruz is one sweet CUV. Never have been a CUV/SUV fan but the likes of the GM Lambda triplets and Veracruz has got me looking around...
Toyota, Nissan, and Honda continue to build high-quality cars. US car makers just don't get it. They think they can keep selling the same pos for years and suckers will go for it. Wonder why Mercedes is dropping Chrysler? Mercedes has made the move to go far away from Chrysler? Why, Mercedes sells good stuff and Chrysler sells crap.
I read a post in this topic about how GM has turned things around? Really? Like turned things around 360 degrees? GM is losing market share to Toyota. The only good thing GM has going for it is the company is diversified in other holdings such as broadcasting, lending & other financial services, etc.
GM hasn't turned things around. The Camry is killing them. Go look at GM's financials in their auto division for the past 10 years.
Now that Toyota is allowed by the US govt to produce trucks with the same engine size as the US makers, then Toyota will serious headway into the truck market.
Yes, you heard me right. Back in the 80's and 90's Toyota was prohibited of selling trucks in the US that exceeded certain horsepower and cargo capacity. Back then Chevy and Ford kept making fun of Toyota in their commercials. But at that time Toyota had no choice in the matter.
Now they do. Now we'll see if Chevy, Ford, and Dodge will actually step up to the plate and build some decent quality into their vehicles. My take is they won't cuz they never have.
Which vehicle would you rather take all the way around the world?
2005 Dodge Caravan with 30,000 miles
2002 Ford Wrangler with 50,000 miles
2007 Hyundai with 1,000 miles
1990 Toyota 4Runner with 150,000 miles
I'll take the Toyota.
Ummm, they sold the Cressida in the U.S. well into the 90s, and as you know the ES250 was one of the first two models Lexus launched with in 1990.
Don't let the Doc get your dander up, he's just cheerleading in the hopes of making more sales! ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Sorry, I don't know where you have been, but GM has turned things around with their very nice line up and way of doing business. They have several class leading models and the build quality actually has been there for several years if not since at least the mid-1990's. Have you ever heard of North American truck and car of the year honors? This was in 2007! They have been voted North America's most efficient assembly plant more times in the last 7 years than I can recall for any auto company. So many awards and now they are finally getting the recognition they deserve.
You haven't read all the posts have you? Toyotas head honcho has public ally stated that position.
Toyota, Nissan, and Honda continue to build high-quality cars.
So does just about every other car manufacturer around. The difference between the highest quality and the lowest is practically null.
GM is losing market share to Toyota.
Remember market share is not a determination of who is best.
Which vehicle would you rather take all the way around the world?
Personally I wouldn't try that in any vehicle with 150k miles. I would take the 2007 Hyundai, they are much better built than a 1990 Toyota.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What are you talking about. The U.S. government preventing Toyota from producing an engine? That's crazy. Toyota is lucky and privaledged to be able to produce auto's in the U.S. The reverse is more of the truth. If there was a market for U.S. cars in Japan, the U.S. auto manufactures could not build over there because there are tremendous obstacles for American companies in Japan. Japan doesn't take to kindly to foreign investment especially American companies. Remember we bombed them several times.
"Yes, you heard me right. Back in the 80's and 90's Toyota was prohibited of selling trucks in the US that exceeded certain horsepower and cargo capacity. Back then Chevy and Ford kept making fun of Toyota in their commercials. But at that time Toyota had no choice in the matter."
The only thing that was going on at that time were import tariffs that made it cost prohibited for certain vehicles. That is why they started building here.
Seriously Eagle, in today's competitive market, there isn't much separating the best from the worst. The new Sonata, Veracruz, Azera, and Santa Fe are not the worst. Nobody's bashing Toyota here. Some of their current models may indeed be the best buy, but not by a large margin. It's not wise to think any make is the best there ever was and the best there ever will be. In today's competitive situation, the lead can change so fast, buyers that aren't paying attention can get left behind.
Which vehicle would you rather take all the way around the world?
2005 Dodge Caravan with 30,000 miles
2002 Ford Wrangler with 50,000 miles
2007 Hyundai with 1,000 miles
1990 Toyota 4Runner with 150,000 miles
Which Hyundai model? Since you didn't specify, here's 1 that can haul a fleet of Toyota's around the world:
click for pic :P
MY 2007 Auto Fleet Sales
Dodge Avenger at close to 80%. That's a brand-new model.
Why is the Sonata listed as a compact car? Also - 28% of its sales are to fleet? Ew.
And the Azera 23% fleet? Another Ew.
Fleet sales damage resale value.
I keep cars about 4 years max. Resale value is big to me. This pay less up front reasoning doesn't wash with me. I think you still get hammered in the end even if you did pay less up front.
I've got my eye on the upcoming Genesis and am wary of taking a big hit 3-4 years down the road. Lease? Maybe.
But it is true that Toyota is aware of Hyundai's recent success in addressing quality issues and increase of sale.
So much so that Toyota's CEO publicly praised Hyundai for its great quality, which Hyundai established in such a short period of time. I used to own 1986 Hyundai Excel. It was a junk. But ever since mid-1990s, I have not seen or heard anyone I know who owned Hyundai complain about reliability issue. Hyundai stilled looked and drove cheap. But at least it did not require repair. Now Hyundai came out with line up that look premium and drive premium with industry's near top quality and best warranty. Toyota is aware, I think, very much so. Especially, when Hyundai's target is mostly Toyota.
It is the situation that benefits us, customers.
Toyota will make better vehicle to increase the quality gap between them and Hyundai. (I said Hyundai, because this forum is about Hyundai)
Hyundai will try to match Toyota in terms of quality, design and refinement and undercut Toyota in price.
Very good news to us. :shades: