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Nobody has ever said that Toyota fears Hyundai's present sales, have they?
Toyota is fearing Hyundai's quality, styling, and excellent warranty. That can can generate future sales, can it not?
I trust you can do better than a Burgers vs. Camrys argument, right?
Lets drop sales and look at the two cars in an unbiased way if you are capable of doing so. Both cars are well built and will go well over 200K miles if well taken car of. Both are safe and get basically the same gas mileage. So now we go on price and what you can get for a set dollar amount. That is where Hyundai pulls a head of Toyota, overall I can get more for less.
Fortunately, most people don't fall for the Hyundai School of Arithmetic. Track record, resale, and desirability are major factors in any car purchase.
The market decides what is important. Washing away 20 years of good, or bad, history is not so easy, is it?
DrFill
Genesis will further help Hyundai's image when it is released. The continued good reviews and good reliability reports that favor Hyundai will further add momentum to Hyundai's success.
It would be downright stupid and arrogant for Toyota to ignore Hyundai. And we all know what arrogance does to any manufacturer in the long run. It is one of the ingredients for decline.
TagMan
Fancy meeting you here. :surprise:
DrFill
They all make cars and SUVs, right? So what seperates one from the other?
You have $25k. Who you givin' it to? Why?
DrFill
I'm not the average buyer, so for my $25K I'm buying the Toyota FJ Cruiser. And in real-life, I'll spend a little more and equip the heck out of it.
For a family SUV, someone on a budget looking for value, add just a little more money and it's a Veracruz without a doubt.
TagMan
You're a "tru playa"! You know how to do it.
Before we go hog wild on the Veracruz, can we at least see if it can hunt within it's division (2008 Highlander), before we give this vehicle the keys to the place?
DrFill
So either you are really dense, stupid or will just say anything to promote Toyota. The whole ideal about bringing up McDonalds is to show you that sales is no indication that one product is better than another. One of your themes seems to be that Toyota id better than Hyundai and their sales prove that. That is not true as there are many examples of an inferior product outselling a better one, McDonalds is just an example of such. It disproves all your posts about Hyundais sales figures.
Fortunately, most people don't fall for the Hyundai School of Arithmetic. Track record, resale, and desirability are major factors in any car purchase.
Or should that be unfortunately. As for track record hyundai has presented a very good track record for the last 10+ years.
As for resale, thats overblown. Yes it is important if all other things are considered and the prices are the same but in many cases thats not the case. In most cases the resale value is negated by a higher original purchase cost and that is rarely recouped in the resale price. Secondly resale value is totally meaningless if it is in the car that you don't like or doesn't fit your needs.
And for desirability, thats personal taste but many people once they experience a Hyundai do desire one. Hey wants not to like about a car thats just as good as the other one gives you more options and costs less?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Might hurt your feelings.
I must have missed the comparison where Sonata was considered the superior product over the Camry. :confuse:
DrFill
Thanks.
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I thought Toyota was overpriced and arrogant? Which is it exactly? :confuse:
Of course with Hyundai, budget pricing and big warranties doesn't equal success, or value, to most buyers. :sick:
You like to call Toyotas inferior, but this website, again, called the Sonata, and Santa Fe, third rate, not Toyota.
We won't even mention the sales difference. Buyers aren't impressed either.
DrFill
If that doesn't work, then we might have to place a call to Jim Press and let him have a chat with Drfill.
When I was talking to Toyota officials at the auto show circuit, they were certainly acknowledging the competition; they are fully aware you can't always ride on brand loyalty, short-term, yes, but long-term, nope...ask the domestics how that turned out; they understand perfectly its rivals (yes Hyundai was included in the conversation) have upped their game and they'd have continue to do the same.
This is why I respect Toyota, they understand the market and more importantly, its rivals, contrary to your realm of understanding and refusal to acknowledge the existence of the rest of the league, much less the level of their game.
Link?
Start at Edmunds.com, go to Car Reviews.....
You'll find information on the 6....7 other comparisons Toyota has won.
I don't have a problem with Hyundai vehicles. But this competing with Lexus/BMW stuff is crossing the line in a huge way. Hyundai management will be under heavy scrutiny. From me.
They better not make a false move. You'd rather have 60 Minutes on your case!
DrFill
Has less power, towing, safety features, cargo room, options, and of course, resale than an '08 Highlander.
But, these days, it'll you from A to B.
For Steve:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=116618/pageNumber=4
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109710/pageNumber=10
DrFill
Actually, you gave us two great reviews of the Sonata/Santa Fe. Sidenote: you did see on the recommendation page of the V6 comparo where both of the editors recommended the Sonata over the competition, right?
Nice try but you need to find better sources.
Good luck.
I'll take being better. Or the best. Thanks, doh.
Taking pride....in last place. Priceless.
DrFill
Moving along....
I gave 16.6K to Hyudai and kept the change. It's like free gas, oil changes, and wash jobs for 10 years. No regrets!
Gee everyone I know with 5-10 year old Hyundais have no more issues than those with 5-10 year old Toyotas. So I guess Toyotas are POS's too.
I must have missed the comparison where Sonata was considered the superior product over the Camry.
That comment was just plain nonsense since I never made that claim.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Edmunds seems impressed.
DrFill
I cannot imagine why Hyundai would care if you scrutinized them. I just did an Edmund's comparison. The Veracruz has several big advantages over the RX350. The least of which is less expensive to operate. More room inside, shorter turning radius, more headroom for us tall guys, more legroom front and back. 7 passenger vs 5 for the RX. And to top it off the owners reviewing both like the Veracruz more than the owners of the RX350. Looks to me like Hyundai is going for the luxury market and will be successful. Kind of reminds me of 1989 when fledgling little Toyota took on Mercedes with the LS400 and cut into their profits.
Just to correct your false statement. They are all rated at 3500 lbs towing capacity. Comparing the Highlander to the Veracruz is very funny. You better work on getting your customers happy with that one. The Highlander does not get very glowing reviews.
2007 Hyundai Veracruz Limited 4dr SUV AWD (3.8L 6cyl 6A)
Review
Compared to Honda Pilot, Mazda CX9, GMC Acadia and a couple of others. Hands down this is the best overall value. Limited package makes this ride similar to the Lexus RX. My brother in law has one - very nice car... but pushing $50,000? That's crazy. This one is so close to it in power, looks, toys, and build quality that it's a no brainer. Just found out that Motor Trend confirmed what I think! (See July, 2007 - Comparo Shock! Hyundai BEATS Lexus) Only had it a week, but wow. This crossover is the perfect soccer mom car (and I get to drive it on the weekend family trips - it's a cool rig).
Favorite Features
Limited Package (the value in this is unreal); near perfect balance of power and fuel economy; power lift gate - not really a necessity... but it's cool; chiller box - good for bottled water; styling - chickish, but not overly so; quietness - wow, is this a Hyundai?
Toyota certainly takes competition and the recent quality issues seriously. For instance, they shut down all external visits to their Lexus Plant in Tahara last year after the quality issues started surfacing, and only restarted them last week (which means that they are getting their arms around this problem).
For those who are interested, here is the plant visit report from the Japan Times
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20070630a1.html
And how do the assembly line workers keep themselves fit to meet the quality/productivity challenge?
"They do situps and work out on cycling machines to stay in shape to do the job right, said Takahiro Iwase, who heads the Tahara plant."
What? No beer and buffalo wings??
The '08 Highlander, the vehicle I was referencing, tows 5k, much more than the veracruz, or the '07 HL, which you are mistakenly talking about.
The 2008 Highlander has many other advantages over the Veracruz, not the least of which is Hybrid economy.
Sane people aren't cross-shopping a Veracruz with lexus, so that's not even worth mentioning. The Next RX will be out in a year, as will the Next Honda Pilot, so you better blow up now, because sales will be hard to come by.
The superior Highlander arrives in 2 months.
Are we now using the won-ton postings of a miscellaneuos owner to garner respect for the Veracruz? What does that prove?
Hyundai can impress the hell out of me and get some new buyers. Getting some word-of-mouth. This is how we keep score, you know.
The Veracruz may suffer the same fate the Sonata has. It's hard to go lower than 1100 sales though. It will take hard work, and dedication, to drop below that.
The '08 HL will take care of Veracruz, and the '09 Pilot will finish it off. No sweat.
DrFill
Toyota can use Hyundai to fight complacency. Like Holyfield uses a sparring partner. Hyundai is good for something.
Except new business.
Toyota shows respect, but doesn't feed into Hyundai's desperate Vince McMahon-level promotions. Say a kind word, and then attend to real business.
They have the situation well in hand. :shades:
DrFill
It should spec out OK, but it's sure butt ugly. They ruined it from an appearance standpoint... downright nasty looking.
TagMan
Sane people are cross-shopping a Veracruz with Lexus. Stop telling people what to post, especially facts.
The Veracruz, as well as many other products are garnering respect across the industry, because they deserve respect. Simple as that.
The superior Highlander
Pump all you'd like, but it's not superior. The Highlander excels in certain areas, the same goes for the Veracruz.
Toyota can use Hyundai to fight complacency.
It sounds to me like your only beef with Hyundai is mental and intangible. You don't like them treading on your turf, marking your territory. You don't like them making comparisons with the cars on which your livelihood depends.
This may come as a shock, but a LOT of people make physical comparisons. They drive the vehicles. They compare the specs, features, styling, quality, warranty, and price. The way you talk, we are all idiots for making real-world comparisons. Just buy Toyota, because they sell. Yea, right.
I admire your loyalty to Toyota. But these days, loyalty is passe. The manufacturers do not build great cars because they are loyal to you. They build great cars because it is the only way to get your money. In today's world market with computer designed, precision robot manufactured cars, nobody has the market cornered on quality and reliability.
Many savvy car buyers simply can not justify paying 20% more for a Camry (for example) that cost the same to manufacture as a Sonata (for example). When smart buyers make comparisons, I don't think they give much weight to the fact that Hyundai's commercials are insulting to Toyota salesmen.
I hope Toyota does use Hyundai to fight complacency. Next time I choose a car, Toyota may win out. Know what? I don't even care. I will always buy the most quality and value on the market, regardless of the badge. It's what's between the badges that counts.
I believe his loyalty is very shallow. If Toyota sales slow, he will move on to greener pastures, the diatribe will then be focused at Toyota vehicles. And he will know first hand all the problems they are having. I doubt that he even owns a Toyota. Car sales people wander from dealer to dealer looking for the $greenest$ field to harvest. Who knows next year he may be selling Hyundai. Driving an RX beating Veracruz.
Do a "physical comparison", take out Toyota's inherent advantages, on the Veracruz vs. the '08 Highlnader.
It should be enlightening.
DrFill
It's not exactly an Infiniti FX itself. :sick:
DrFill
Market a Hyundai against a Lexus? It’s certainly a gamble, but it’s paying off for Hyundai’s new Veracruz. Sales of the most expensive version of the premium crossover have far exceeded Hyundai’s expectations.
The Veracruz, aimed at the Lexus RX 350, is part of Hyundai’s bid to be seen by consumers as more than a discount carmaker. Veracruz prices start just below $27,000 but run up to $38,000 for the Limited version.
Vercruz a winner
It has to give you a warm fuzzy feeling!!
Ar e we really a salesperson? They usually post erratically because of demands on their time.
The interesting thing I notice around here is that many of the Camry/Corolla/Avalons are driven by elderly people. The Sonatas, Azeras, and Hyundai models are driven by people in their 40s and 50s who will be buying cars for a long time. Toyo seems to have ridden their past reputation from the mid90s (best car style for Camrys)
and buy just because others say they should buy this and that. The 40s and 50s people, and 30s are driving Sonatas, 350s, and seems very happy with their ride. They'll be buying new ones when they tire of them after 8-10 years. The older buyers of Camrys will be selling their purchase off for nursing home money. That leaves fewer people to rebuy a Camry if they haven't been alienated--I can link several discussions here with such posts.--drkeith
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Supra was, more or less, an SC on steriods. Both used the in-line six. One had turbos. :surprise:
Regarding Hyundai, what I would do, is get this Veracruz, the coupe that they are building, and the Genesis, and make a brand out of those, starting around $25-6k. The Genesis could base in the Mid-30's.
Make the Santa Fe a little bigger, and redesign the Tucson to trake the Santa Fe's spot in the lineup.
If Hyundai wants to be taken seriously, that's what they would do.
I'm not taking Hyundai seriously until they pony up the cash. If they want some of Lexus, they know what they have to do.
Have a real "competitive nature"? Show and prove.
DrFill
The Supra TT was a breed apart.
DrFill
You don't have to. But the rest of the world is taking them pretty darned seriously. Consider where they are in such a short time. It is nothing short of amazing. And consider that they are just in the early stages of their success story. Stay tuned... there will be much more to come from Hyundai.
TagMan
Beyond that, the Z was always a better looking car... by a country mile. It was an icon. The Supra was not.
TagMan
Ever heard of the Movie "The Fast and The Furious"?
I didn't see any scenes built around any 300Z. A Maxima made the cut in that before the played-out Z.
I remeber the movie quote about the Supra: "This will decimate all!"
History repeated itself. The movie basically was built around the legend that was Supra.
Don't even get me started!
DrFill
As nice as the Supra might have been, and as much as you love it, the Z was the more successful car in every respect... in sales units sold, and on the track.
Nothing threatening to you here, Doc... just some facts.
TagMan
And being a movie star is sweet. Wooooo! :shades:
DrFill