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Jeep Liberty Diesel Maintenance and Repair

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Comments

  • tbbttbbt Posts: 6
    You may have not been able to notice a decrease in torque based on your "seat of the pants" dyno, but a decrease most likely occurred. DCX would not have disclosed a "small reduction in engine torque" unless 1) there was a small reduction in torque and 2) they had to.
  • tbbttbbt Posts: 6
    The only way anybody is likely to find out what impact this recall had on torque is to do before and after dyno runs.

    I agree that they should fix the tranny problems without gutting the enginee performance. You paid for a vehicle that delivers 295 lb-ft of torque @ 1800 rpm and that is exactly what you should get.
  • vtdogvtdog Posts: 163
    I got a call from my dealer yesterday in regards to the f37. He said that they were not even allowed to order the tc until AFTER an appt. was scheduled for the tc repair. Then only AFTER the tear down were they allowed to order pump, if needed. SM said that DC told the dealers that only a small percent of cars will need pumps. They are supposed to check by looking for metal filings, etc. He said the CRD done the day before he called me did not need new pump, but it only has about half my 40k miles.
    He would not let me schedule repair till next week as it took 5 working days to get tc for repair to other CRD. They will give me car under 70k extended warranty and will call region rep if repair goes over 5 day limit due to pump order. He did say that it would be almost impossible to get any parts from dc during week between xmas and new year due to short staffing at distribution center.

    I have not had the shudder problem and would not have made an appt. if the guy had not called me. He was pretty insistent about getting it done which is unusual for a recall. The SM said to forget the 5 hr repair time and to expect the car to be in shop at least overnight as only their tranny tech will be doing fix.
  • I called my dealer on Thursday afternoon and they made the f37 appointment for the following Monday. I was there at 7:30 am and I had my vehicle back at 5 pm. There was no mention on pump replacement but I only have less than 16k miles on it. Try calling another dealer and see if they tell you the same thing.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    jbarbee: Welcome to the forum. The K&N filter has been discussed at a very long length. The end results was the K&N filter has brought fuel mileage down, and because of the oil caused other problems. Many were solid K&N fans and were very upset at the poor results.
    Having rented a Dodge Magnum last week,if this vehicle is the kind of quality DCX is putting in their vehicles, DCX is in seriouc trouble! The hatd cheap plastic dash and pannels, not only looked cheap, it made the old Yugo's insides look fancy! If you look at the Caliber, Compass, there interior is just as cheap as the Magnum! I am not a Ford or GM fan but they have better quality materials than DCX has. These "Low Rider, Hood-mobiles" will just about send DCX down the tubes, that's my opinion anyway. However the Nitro did have a better materials and much better cloth seats. Our seats need to be cleaned so often because even a raindrop makes a stain! I too have a love hate feelings about our CRD, but it's more love than hate. Actually is is the Customer care line and Star that makes me very frustrated, as no one knows anything! And they are "sorry for any inconvience.". That just outright sucks! I will never buy a brand new model or new engine type again. This being a "TEST MARKET". However I am in hopes the new Jeep Liberty will have a better looking front end than the Nitro has.

    Farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Farout,

    Your comments concerning the K&N filter are unfounded. I have a K&N filter in my CRD and have not experienced any loss in fuel economy nor has any oil come off of the filter. I have had the filter in my CRD for about 1500 miles now and have not found any oil or film emanating from the filter. The only way this could happen is if the filter was dripping with oil.

    I have used other oiled filters in the past and have never experienced any oil coming off of the filter.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    I get my CRD back tomorrow. so far the EGR valve, a sensor and some gaskets have been replaced. The PCM was not replaced but reprogrammed.

    The torque converter has been replaced along with other parts. Front pump is still original. Once I get it back tomorrow I will give more details.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    If you guys haven't been there yet you may interested in the K&N Air Filters, bolt-on power? discussion.

    tidester, host
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Tidester: Thanks for your excellent recall! I remember that several had either had no noticeable change in hp or torque, and some like xtec has issues.
    From what I have seen and heard DCX is very hard noised about buy backs and customers changing anything that could even remotely related to emissions. Even small things DCX looks for to bring anything into question, that devalues a persons defence in why something failed. I have had three dealers tell me that the oil is a critical issue that DCX does not budge on. Using 15-40w or 5-30w is trouble. They expect 0-40 or 5-40 and that is pretty narrow and rather explicit as to what DCX will accept and nothing else. I think the CRD is a good engine, it's the added emissions that make it a very technical, computer controlled vehicle. One should expect some reflashes or other recall items, but I do feel this CRD has had more recalls that I expected. I hope being a "test market" for DCX means we are getting all the bugs worked out so it will last longer than the payments. Merry Christma2s.

    Farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    As to your comments concerning xtec, if a few people have problems with a product, it does not mean that the product is a failure or problem prone for everyone as you seem to imply. I have used K&N filters (not their kits) with results that more than adequately resolve certain issues like turbo lag. I have had emissions testing done with the stock filter and then the K&N and the K&N filtered version was a touch cleaner.

    As to the oil issue, the use of a synthetic 15W-40 is fine. It meets DCX's specs based on what they recommend. DCX would have to prove that the oil caused a problem/failure. Remember, the owners manual uses the word recommended, not must when it comes to motor oil.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    From my side of the pond, K&N products have always been associated to build quality and performance of gas engines.

    Several people in the EU reported they had no 'sensible' improvement when used with common rail diesels, but this does not alter in any way the quality of the product. Few (younger) people complained because they had no return on their investment when used on diesel engines.

    People with limited budget buy diesels here but they can't dissimulate social standing behind accessories. I've noticed greater differences between two fillings from a same station than by using my K&N versus the original. Turbo lag is reduced on my engine, but the converter locking sequence eats the extra performance :cry:

    Since there is practically no dust in the air between late fall and spring, I use the K&N about 5 months in the year. It's great to know what it's worth and to have one on the shelf.
  • My CRD goes in tomorrow for a new TC and the torque robbing engine reprogramming, and I am not happy about it. I find solace in some of the postings where other victims claim that the power loss is negligible, but the fact that adult, educated engineers would conclude that diesel owners would willingly sacrifice torque amazes me.

    I didn’t buy a diesel because I like the smell, or the joy of being extra careful during refueling to ensure that good clothes aren’t ruined by the fuel that averages at least 25 cents a gallon more than gasoline, or because I wanted the opportunity to pay one hundred bucks for what would have been a thirty dollar oil change. I bought the diesel because it had torque, lots of torque, and because I hoped that I could get a couple hundred thousand miles out of the vehicle. I’m now very concerned by the thought of keeping this car after the 70k mile warranty runs out.

    My love/hate relationship with this car continues, but I have to say that Mrs. Parkenfarker’s 5th grade science class could have done a better job of engineering a dependable drive train than the nattering nabobs and nincompoops that seem to occupy the engineering department at DC. Everyone that I share my recall letter with is amazed that the corporate solution is to gut the engine rather than fix the problem.

    I can only hope that the loss truly is minimal, and that the new TC will solve my intermittent, low-speed shudder problem that occurs about once every three weeks. It only happens when I have pulled out of my heated and air-conditioned garage and driven to the first intersection, which is about 150 feet from my home. I’m glad that my speed is under 10 m.p.h., because it sounds and feels like the entire drive train is falling out.
  • I bought the Liberty CRD last month and I noticed the TC recall sticker under the hood. Having no experience without the TC tuning upgrade I can't compaire the new tuning to it but I have been really happy with the performance of the CRD to date. I have 3 miles of non maintained dirt road I have to do twice a day and then hit the freeway and have to merge at a 7% grade in to traffic doing 75. My 97 4Runner feels like the underpowered beast it is doing this but the Liberty doesn't even break a sweat, even towing 1000 pounds.
    I predict that those of you worried about this TC tuning will be generally happy and after awhile will forget what all the fuss is about.

    On another note. Does anyone else have the problem of the transmission dip stick poping up a couple of inches after freeway driving? Maybe this is related to the TC tuning?? I have a wine cork holding it in place now but that seems a bit rigged.

    Matt
  • I will check my intake for oil residue. My experience has with K & N products in other cars has been favorable. With my CRD, I don't seem to have as much turbo-lag as a friend of mine---he doesn't run a K & N on that car, and my fuel economy is superb. I get about 27 mpg at 75 mph and 29 at 65, so I feel like I am doing a bit better than most.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    I got my Jeep back last Friday and wanted to drive it for several days before I commented on the how the recall impacted on drivability. Also had the EGR valve replaced.

    First think I noticed was the fact that the Jeep does not lunge the way it did before when starting out from a stop. Pickup is smoother and easier to modulate. Never had the "shuddering" issue as others have had. From 50 - 80 MPH, performance in top gear is the same, namely very fast acceleration. Shift quality is improved in my view being a bit firmer and a bit quicker. Would prefer it to be firmer but it is better than it was. FE is unchanged. Do not have any hills here in Florida to try hill climbing power tests but when I get back to Maryland next month, I will test there.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Winter, I'm glad to read your transmission performs well. I think it's time to define the way the shifting is felt when everything is OK because this can help others compare to what they have or suspect. We all tend to forget how we feel things when we don't write down the details.
    Remember last year or was it two years ago I said that after disconnecting my EGR I could shift gears just by moving one toe! Well, my tranny is still working like this after many many miles.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Winter2: Please excuse me if I offended you in any way! I honestly would not know a K&N filter if it was on a shelf next to a regular filter. All I was attempting to say was to read what others have said about K&N filters. So if it came out different than I intended to.......ooooh I Seek humble pardons.
    On the issue of 15-45w oil, I have asked several service managers how would DCX know what oil you are using? The dealership I used for over a year insisted it was not hard at all. The Dodge dealer Service Manager whom I just talked to said there is no way anyone could tell. So now you can see why I changed who services my Jeep!
    Winter2 I am no expert, and my mechanical skills are limited by choice (I hate to get as mad, and look like a hot head, as I do when I do mechanical repair) I am sure there a few others like me. At least on our road I have seen a few others like me. But what ever I say it comes from watching and asking questions. That and I get about 4 auto magazines. I read stuff that the dealers haven't heard of sometimes.
    Again i never intended to ruffle your tail feathers, ok?

    Farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    No feathers were ruffled. As you explained what you wanted to say did not come out the way you had intended to say it. What gets me mad is when someone quotes a single instance of a problem and then makes it seem as if the product is junk when it is not the case.

    As to the oil issue, DCX would have to prove the oil caused the problem. There is also Moss-Magnuson act too. Go to the websites of the respective oil manufacturers and write down the specs you find. Evaluate the oils based on the specs that are common to all of them and see for yourself.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Caribou,

    I still wish it shifted more firmly. Way back in the 60's and early 70's Chrysler had a three speed automatic called the Torqueflite 727. It was a wonderful automatic. Shifts were quick and firm. The transmission was very strong too and could handle just about anything you threw at it. It is a shame you never got to drive a car with one.

    As to disconnecting the EGR valve. No thanks. The idea of stiff fines is no particularly appealing. Now that we finally have ULSD, the EGR valve should be well behaved for a long time to come.
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Hi Farout and everybody.... I pick my CRD last friday from the recall and I drove it for the weekend to see how would it work. DC send me a letter telling me to have it done and the dealer call me two days later ask in me to bring it and do both recall. To begin I never had any issue with the trans but i took it because the dealer told me that if i didn't the warranty will no longer be on.
    The CRD do not run the same way, i think that DCX do not make a good trans for the CRD, they better use a mercedes trans next time.
    When i start it in the morning i always go slow, the engine rpm on first is higher, the shifting is more positive and now i do have at 55 some shudder witch i didn't have before. My wife told me to take back but i will run it longer to see if it will fix itself. They use 8 quart of oil and didn't replace the pump, they didn't even took the pan off. The front joint look to me the same as the one it had before but the CRD seems to be a bit higher.
    Well that is all will see what happen next.

    nescosmo.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Winter, I drove my first mile behind the steering of a 1965 Chrysler 300. It had the Torqueflite 727 on the console. From what I remember, our little diesel engine cannot pull as hard as that old V8, but do you remember the fuel efficiency gage that ranged between ~5 to 25 mpg?

    The CRD couldn't use that one either ;)
  • On another web site I found what is said to be the F37 recall - it indicates that it applies to production up to November 3,2005.

    Assuming that this is accurate, this implies that there was some sort of running production change in the CRD transmissions.

    It would be interesting to know what that was.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    About your shudder. Before taking it back to the dealer bleed any air trapped in your fuel filter. It's easy to do. Get a rag and small wrench that fits the bleeder fitting on the fuel filter housing. With the engine off. Pump the primer pump by hand till you feel resistance then open the bleeder fitting with the wrench while holding the rag to catch the fuel that escapes. As soon as the flow stops, close the the fitting. Repeat the proccess until the fuel stream is solid fuel with no air spitting out. Any air that gets into this system will be trapped in the fuel filter. Air getting in the fuel lines will give you a shudder. This problem is common to all diesels. You would feel it most under heavy acceleration or just after. Hope this helps.
  • "On another note. Does anyone else have the problem of the transmission dip stick poping up a couple of inches after freeway driving? Maybe this is related to the TC tuning?? I have a wine cork holding it in place now but that seems a bit rigged."

    I found that my transmission dip stick was way out when I changed the air filter. I was going to blame the dealer's mechanic, but since you've mentioned it, I'll need to open the hood at each fuel fill up, and check that everythng is in place.
  • I'm taking mine in next week to replace bad window tracks. I'll ask them about the dip stick thing. Don't want to get any mouse turds down the pipe.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    thomasw: I was lucky and my dealer gave me the 36 page recall notice the dealers got. The date was Nov. 2 2006. I am thinking for what ever reason DCX made ate least one CRD on that date. Maybe for a crash test, who knows.

    Merry Christmas.

    Farout
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Goodcrd... But i never had the shudder before could it be bad diesel i always use the same pump station; I will do that tomorrow to see if it help. Note: i do have about 7k should i replaced the fuel filter. Thanks

    Nescosmo.
  • I just got my 05 liberty crd back.
    First impression was were did all the power in the first cm of pedal go? I can get over it if that is what it is supposed to do but I really got worried when the Overdrive button did not turn on or off, nothing. Going back to dealer.
  • I had the "fix," done to mine two days ago. The transmission shifts better---faster and more precise shifts, and engine power seems to be about the same. There may be a little less, but I'm not sure that my judgment is fair because I'm looking for less and that perception may drive my assessment.

    We don't think that my shudder is fuel related. It only happens when the engine is cold----within the first 100 feet of my heated garage, and it only happens once. When I stop and start again the problem is over and it won't return for about three weeks, and then the event will be the same.

    Reference the wine cork fix for the dipstick. Perhaps we can get DCX to prescribe a wine cork as an official solution. That way we could carry a bottle of Merlot around with us at all times. I'm already under doctors instructions to have one glass per day for cholesterol, so how about an entire bottle for the car??
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    Jbarbee.... If you move the cover over the deep stick it will cure the problem i do that on mine and that what the tech recommend.

    Nescosmo.
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