Weak dollar is determining the oil price, there is plenty of oil, however our dollar is not healthy..Nobody wants the dollar so it is discounted and you get shafted at the pump...Simple economics....
Follow the money---follow how we counter the problem---govt subsidized ethanol industry---our first entry into Nationalizing the "BIG OIL"..Your tax dollars at work...$6.00 gas in our future.
I wonder if Japan is growing corn on the tiny island---maybe they will give us $7.00 a bushel and we can export our corn----we gave them our electronics industry and our automotive market and we now have a chance to let them "Run the Farm".
We can't drill for oil, so how do we propel our existing 250,000,000 plus cars until they wearout..
Life changes are slow, for changes are done in dribbles, not noticeable until we are boxed in, now we find out that lack of oil and refineries will change our lives forever with drastic measures about to be set in place...Replay of Europe in the mid-1930s..
I used to pay$0.13/gal for gas at the PX gas station in Germany while on duty during the time frame 1958-1959. If I wanted premium fuel it was $0.25..My Porsche liked the premium grade.
I didn't mention Politics in this posting so I will let you fill in the blanks..Please bear in mind that the wealthy folks will pay the price at the pump and chuckle when they also buy your $300,000 house in foreclosure for maybe $75,000..
"Change" is on our doorstep, you had better "Hope" that it misses.
Buy whatever car that fits your taste and budget. Sad commentary, Lexus sales are off 25% on the high end models.
I ask the local Lexus dealer to quote me a price for 08 IS350, no optional equipment, for it is nicely equipped as a base offering, and their reply was "nothing ordered as base car for stock", however as a "special Order" there is a 4-6 mos time frame wait.. They offer big discounts up front.. They tried to get me in an IS250 which is underpowered and really a sad setup..I think the Lexus is 100% foreign content.. The Mustang is looking better even though it is not a "refined" car with proper "fit & finish" as praised by our Honda and Camary drivers..
Please watch out for "Change" and Let's "HOPE" life doesn't take that nasty turn..
Thanks again for advise on cheaper wheels--I will be on I-75 for about 250 miles so we shall know whether the existing wheel should be replaced--my last tank of gas yielded 19.23mpgs, so it is mandatory to make sure whatever is choking the engine is blown out the tailpipe, too much town driving is not good for the inerds..I shall have a large "Carbon Footprint" today. Maybe I should buy some "offsets"???
I just read the April CR - no surprises there in terms of auto-reliability.
An interesting survey ranked all of the major automakers based on reliability, drive, fit and finish, etc. etc.
Not surprisingly, Honda and Toyota came out top. However, the real shocker was that Ford's reliability shot up quite a bit! They still can't compete against Honda due to their inferior fit and finish, but at least they are making some headway.
GM and Chrysler fell relative to reliability (surprise, surprise).
Here's hoping that at least ONE American car company can make a go at redeeming itself.
Warranty Week has crunched a bunch of Ford's SEC filings and concluded that Ford's warranty costs are way down too. That usually indicates better quality coming off the factory floor and they don't think all of it can be attributed to getting Jag and Land Rover off the books. (link)
Ford hasn't gotten rid of Jag and Land Rover yet though so a lot of their warranty costs are still in their financial. I guess potential future warranty claims can be discontinued but I know from personal experience that Land Rover's warranty claims are way, way down compared to a few years ago. I know from speaking with jag dealers that Jags warranty costs are way down too.
For purposes of figuring out the warranty costs, they were off the books.
"In Ford's annual report, the company reclassified Jaguar and Land Rover as "Held-for-Sale Operations," which means they weren't yet completely discontinued operations, but they were headed in that direction."
Jaguar and Land Rover haven't been officially been reclassified as "Discontinued Operations" but Warranty Week made estimates based on them being completely off the books. If the estimates hold up with "real" numbers, Ford is doing good on quality.
I just finished reading the whole article and that is some fancy accounting there. Ford still owns LR/Jag so they are still paying the warranty costs no matter what but I understand what they are doing from an accounting perspective.
By the government's accounting, Social Security is only "off budget" when it makes payments to retirees. It's always "on budget" when it collects money from income earners.
This 'wink and nod' accounting sounds similar to what Ford is doing -- saying 'sure, these divisions lose money, but they're for sale, so don't count it against our bottom line.'
Someone described accounting this way:
"Its whole object is to prove that two plus two equals four ..... but you'd be surprised at the number of people who try to stretch it to five." .
Sales were up 17.6 percent world wide and 3 point something percent in the US. Jag's sales are in near free fall but Land Rover more then makes up for it. Jag will have double digit sales increases once the XF is on all the dealer's lots. You might not see the big increase in March but you will see it in April through the summer.
This 'wink and nod' accounting sounds similar to what Ford is doing -- saying 'sure, these divisions lose money, but they're for sale, so don't count it against our bottom line.'
Depending on which source you want to use Jag/LR combined made between 1 billion and 1.5 billion dollars on 2007.
Annual Auto Issue---Top ten Picks---All foreign except the Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab...Hyundai scores big---American cars I guess are pure JUNK!!!!
The STOCK MARKET will get panned today----just keep buying those foreign cars and we shall relive the 1930s pretty darn quick....No oil, might be a good day to sell your gold watch you inherited..
He picked up Jag,LR, and an auto repair chain in England. He got canned and Ford lost $2 billion on the sale of auto repair chain and BMW was the previous owner of LR.
Nasser loved to spend money, big opera fan in Detroit and squandered millions of Ford bucks on his pleasure items..
I remember going to the "3 Tenors" event in 1999, still have the T-shirt...
Maybe he had a hand in the Volvo deal???
The Motor City was a fun place in the good old days before the politicians got involved in industry matters which they only understand if someone greased their palm with money..
Remember Jimmy Carter and his rant against the three "Martini Lunch".. 55 mph, and dial down the heat...Was't that a fine time-18% mortagage rates.. Well the entertainment just keeps going on---we stopped at 2 for lunch..
Jag and LR was another ego trip that has caused Ford to bleed--too bad for it was money spent in the wrong direction..Young Ford is somewhat liberal-moved from Grosse Pointe to ultra-liberal Ann Arbor some seven yrs ago..He should have stayed away from the Glass House and become a jet-setter..
Detroit might have been a good city, but the election of Coleman Young was the beginning of the downslide...his inherent racism made Jackson/Sharpton sound like innocent children...now the current mayor make Young sound competent...
wELL SAID!!!!!!! Kilpatrick does make old Mayor Young look great..The left is at it again, the esteemed politician Mr Dingell wants the 50cent/gallon gas tax, they love the Detroit Auto Indusrty!!!!!!! His buddies Levin and Conyers have done their fair share to kill this country and its industry....
My last gas purchase was great, Shell premium $3.579/gal., had traveled 310 miles and figured I needed at least 14 gals however I could only stuff 10.127 gals in the tank, averaging 30.61mpgs...pretty good deal and I shall use that pump in the future...No Supercharged V-6 of Pontiac hertiage gets that kind of mileage, normally does the 19-20 range..
In fact I may fill-up daily to take advantage of the gas "Fire Sale"..
The Michigan situation is serious and my land investments in the Detroit suburbs was a fatal mistake---big time loss, however my attorney seems jovial..Florida sucks also, except for the climate for most losses are in the 30% range and sinking..
No Supercharged V-6 of Pontiac hertiage gets that kind of mileage, normally does the 19-20 range..
Umm... If you had ASKED any of us who OWN a supercharged 3800, you would know that for the size of the car (4000+lbs) they get Exceptional gas mileage. I get about 23 mpg in 50/50 mixed driving, and 31-33 doing about 60-65 in strictly highway. My uncle's '97 Ultra got a steady 29 mpg to and from Florida doing 75-80. Now I will admit, in strictly in town driving, the gas mileage sucks (about16-17).
get about 23 mpg in 50/50 mixed driving, and 31-33 doing about 60-65 in strictly highway. My uncle's '97 Ultra got a steady 29 mpg to and from Florida doing 75-80.
I find that hard to believe unless the S/C versions of the 3800 get better fuel efficiency than the N/A version.
My wife has an 07 GP 3800 for a company car. It's never gotten over 25mpg in hwy driving and averages 22 or so in mixed. Horrible car though, I wouldn't use my own money for one. No room, uncomfortable and marginal performance. The G8 can't come soon enough.
Also, I drove my dad's '00 Park Ave n/a from Florida to Indiana and averaged around 25mpg with cruise set at 80 most of the way with just me in the car.
Can't remember the last time I saw a new Big 3 dealership, however the city of Venice, Fla has been blessed??? with a large new Honda across the street from an existing Toyota dealer which doubled in size at the same time..The Nissan and Dodge dealer is next to the Toyota guys..
My son is down from Detroit and hunting a car to replace his 02 Seville which ended up with cracked block after 160k mi., his fault, too busy pushing real estate deals in the depressed Mich area to have the water pump replaced. His tenth Caddy, and really no complaints. Worst buy was the 1993 Allante, a toy, had 42k miles when purchased--sold six yrs later with 55k, summer car only..Will get another Big 3 car--drove a new Dodge R/T Hemi, Dodge Charger SXT, GMC Acadia, GMC Envoy I-6 and a Caddy SRX V-6..The whole gamut no decision yet, since he likes to work the numbers, but he will return to Detroit next and beat up his favorite Caddy dealer for the best deal..He knows nothing about cars and despises the process of changing cars..It will be a Motor City car!!!!!!!
He would buy a Lexus----but he knows my rabid opinion of being loyal to the system that helped make this a great country.. The other guys make a great cars, but we tend to support the guys that supported us throughout the years..
I just bought a new 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance last November. I traded a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS with 68K on it. Still, 160K isn't bad, but I would've taken the time to replace the water pump despite the inconvenience. I wish him luck in his pursuit of a new Caddy! I bought my new car from the same guy at the same dealership as my last car. Too bad your son isn't in Philly so I could refer him. Would he be willing to settle for a Buick? The Lucerne CXS is a sweet ride and one heck of a bargain! My girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse is still going strong and defect-free.
Hey, I go by the trip computer, and the gallons I pump is never more than 2 or3/10ths of a gallon off, and it jives w/ the trip mileage. This week, I averaged 22.6 going back and forth to work, though it has dropped off to 21.2 after idling for 1/2 hr and some city driving this afternoon.
I rented an '03 Lesabre in '03 and got 34 mpg going from Anaheim to San Diego. While in SD, it quickly dropped into the low 20's. As I said, I find them to be EXTREMELY thirsty in stop and go. My tach only reads 2000 rpm at 70 mph, and 1150 at 45, so my figures are achieveable.
Big 3 are not supporting the US they are moving assembly to mexico and china/asia, friend of mine was going to buy a 09 ford fusion, till he found out it will be made in china, now he doesn't know what he will buy.
You have to wonder if the Big 3's plan to wave the flag while moving jobs out of the country represents part of the reason that their cars are selling so poorly here.
The companies blame everyone but themselves.
Those million-dollar-a-month executives never dreamed that U.S. consumers would feel no more loyalty to an American badge on a foreign-built car than we do to a foreign badge on an American-built car (Honda, Toyota).
Even a million dollars a month doesn't buy common sense. .
You have to wonder if the Big 3's plan to wave the flag while moving jobs out of the country represents part of the reason that their cars are selling so poorly here.
Amazing!!!!! :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
The Big 3 STILL employ more people here, STILL build more cars here, and you think they're waving the white flag?????? You people think that by moving plants out of the country the Big 3 will lose customers, yet when I surmise the same thing would happen to the [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 if they moved production back home (as Honda is doing w/ their motorcycles). You guys refuse to believe it.
I really don't know if you guys will ever understand this. The American companies have moved some factories out of the U.S., and the Japanese have moved a few into the U.S., but that doesn't mean that that movement is proportional. I work at a Toyota dealership, and about 80% of all the car models have a 100% Japanese parts content, with the final assembly in Japan. Compare that to General Motors which has an average U.S. parts content of 80% per vehicle. That's also ignoring the wage issue. When GM entered its most recent talks with the UAW, it wanted to lower wages to what Toyota was paying its employees to stay competitive, but the UAW threw a fit, and GM was criticized all over the press. For some reason though people don't criticize Toyota's wages, and instead praise them for building a couple factories in the U.S.
UAW wages are out of line for the quality of product that they put out and quality of work, put it simple they are paid too damn much. Most union people are paid more than they are worth, know a longshoreman that works 2 days a week and makes 6 figure income, guy is a total idiot, laughs about shipping containers that they drop, and damage that they do unloading ships.
Both Buicks deliver great fuel economy for rather large cars. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue will deliver 29 MPG highway as will her 2005 LaCrosse - and on regular fuel no less. I'm not sure what her car's city economy is like, but my Park Ave is about 19 - 21 depending on the time of year. Lately, the Park Ave's fuel economy seems to have dropped. I don't know if that has something to do with the car's age or the winter fuel blend. Maybe both. Needless to say, the Buicks are driven the most these days.
know a longshoreman that works 2 days a week and makes 6 figure income, guy is a total idiot, laughs about shipping containers that they drop, and damage that they do unloading ships.
It's a shame they laugh about the damage they cause, and the lack of caring that comes along w/it (ever open a box that's damaged and have the product you bought damaged along w/ it???). However, how many hours a day does he work??(2, 24 hr shifts??). If you think they are overpaid, try doing their job for a month, and see if you think they are. I'll bet most of us would shut our mouths and accept what "OTHERS" make if we did.
As a worker on a union assembly line you have the ability to make a six figure income. That is damn good for an unskilled worker tightening bolts, and definitely more than they deserve for the amount of work they do.
...why is everybody worried about a guy on an assembly line being overpaid? I'm sure the job really isn't that easy and most of you would be exhausted after a day of assembly line work. I don't begrudge a man for trying to make a living! Would you rather have the man starve on a Wal~Mart wage? I'd rather that man make an honest living than having to steal or deal drugs to make up for the shortfall in his income. Would you rather some company pay him or you pay him in the form of government assistance or for keeping him in prison?
...why is everybody worried about a guy on an assembly line being overpaid? I'm sure the job really isn't that easy and most of you would be exhausted after a day of assembly line work.
Would be interested in seeing some statistics on American assembly line workers with 30-35 years service in terms of hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder/back health. Do they have more incidence of carpal tunnel, arthritis, etc? How would this compare to 30-35 year desk jockey clerks, accountants, engineeers.
Seeing more mechanization and robotics on assembly lines in recent years, perhaps the younger generation of American assembly workers will have less body damage than their older bretheren.
IMO, it's not whether UAW employees are overpaid, but can GM, Ford, and Chrysler afford to pay those wages. If they can't, then they are overpaid.
I keep hearing the Walmart wage being brought up and quite frankly, their are many who work for Walmart and other retail companies that make far more than UAW wages.
Actually, retail is still one of the few industries where a kid can go to work straight out of HS and work his/her way up. I know many in retail management w/o a degree making good money. My dad has worked for the same grocery chain for 38 years. Has never been laid of, didn't go to college and has worked his way up to an over 100k salary and a good retirement nest egg.
My wife has worked for the same retail chain since she was 17. She's 36 now and her employer paid for her to go to college. She started as a cashier and is now a DM. I won't say what she makes, but only it it's several times that of UAW wages.
The point is most companies pay the prevailing wage for a given job. WalMart in CA employees start around $8.50 to $9 per hour. If GM is trying to compete with Toyota and has to pay more per hour something has to give.
The point is most companies pay the prevailing wage for a given job. WalMart in CA employees start around $8.50 to $9 per hour. If GM is trying to compete with Toyota and has to pay more per hour something has to give.
Exactly.
Ironically I drove by the Laborer's Union Local 703 hall the other day and well over half of the vehicles in the parking lot were Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's, and even a few Lexus'. I was shocked at the lack of domestics parked in their lot.
I don't work on an assembly line. I work in tight, musty, wet, stinky manholes ( :surprise: :surprise: Hey, not THOSE manholes ) maintaining the air pressure on telephone cables. You may or may not consider it "skilled", as the Phone company trains it's own employees (there is a novel idea), and I suppose I could hit $100k. You may consider THAT overpaid, but again, come do it for a month and lets see you [non-permissible content removed] about me being overpaid.
The point is most companies pay the prevailing wage for a given job.
The flaw in the argument is that Wal-Mart can't get away with paying $6.50/hr in California by arguing that Target pays $6.25/ hr in Mississsppi, because Wal-Mart NEEDS employees in California to make money there. They can't pay an employee in Miss. to cash out a customer in Cal.
Car companies that are new to America can cherry pick where they want to open a new factory to "manipulate" the wage market to their advantage.
What I would find interesting would be if GM built a factory right next door to Toyota's Georgetown, Ky. factory, and paid the union wages, what that would do to Toyota.
Yes, Toyota has been dealing w/ the UAW in Freemont. But I would also say that this is one reason that Toyota never expanded there (among other reasons).
I don't think I was trying to take this to the UAW topic, but just trying to make a point that, while the UAW may manipulate the prevailing wage up north with the threat of strikes and getting union friendly labor laws, companies like Toyota or Hyundai manipulate the market by going to places that are company friendly and have significantly lower costs of living. Now, in my scenario, GM would never just bring the union with them, because I believe Rick Wagoner would want to rid GM of unions as much as Watanabe wants to keep them out. But, what would happen if GM moved next door to Toyota in Kentucky or next to Hyundai in Alabama and paid them wages and benefits the same as their union counterparts up north??? I think that toyota and Hyundai would have a big headache on their hands just trying to keep their current employees, let alone keeping them from unionizing.
And, to weave this into this thread (no pun), if the Foreign automakers were to pull out because of that, I believe that there would be backlash over the loss of jobs, and the fact that these cars are no longer "American Made"
next to Toyota in Kentucky, and if that made the Toyota workers even THINK of the word "union", it would be in Toyota's best interest to simply close the plant and disassemble it, just to make a point...
They would not tolerate the union, IMO, simply because of the restrictive work rules, and they would let the workers know that while they have the RIGHT to vote on a union, they do NOT have the right to a job...Toy would simply take the loss and leave the area, letting the workers be unionized but unemployed...
All it would take is ONE plant, and when import workers in other plants learn of their "brethren" losing their well paying jobs (compared to what most folks make) by joining a union, watch the union movement die an even faster death...
That is what I would do...losing a few hundred million $$$ on one plant would save them hundreds of BILLIONS in the future, plus throw a C4 explosive into the union movement in the South...
The Asians chased the cheaper labor markets when they invaded the USA..They stayed away Michigan and any heavy unionized area..They paid a big wage for any area where they constructed a plant in comparsion to the ongoing level of the customary hourly rate for that localilty..
The Big 3 was plagued with their supply chain-internally and externally being heavily unionized, with crazy work rules, high wages, and benefits galore. On the flip side the Asians bought their own suppliers over, invading small towns close to their assembly operations and started out with a clean sheet of paper, no past obligations, no retirement packages, no big health insurance packages, and the little towns and state govts used our taxpaper's dollars to entice the Asians--sweetheart deals. Screwed the Big 3 from day one..
I have been there---watched it and done it..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Fremont plant is an assembly plant operation, joint operation with Asians and using mostly Asian supplied parts on cars sporting a GM badge..I believe mostly compact type cars are produced at this location.. It's a "feel good" operation for California.. GM has another joint venture in Ingersol, Ontario, Canada...Isuzu I believe..
I spent 32 years on the supply side of the game and I watched many auto suppliers slowly bleed into bankruptcy..Last Dec one of my principals in Ontario, Canada, a "Hot Forging Operation" started in 1989, high sales of approx 20 mil/yr went down the tube owing 5mil..Volume mostly forged suspension parts for Big 3..The weakening US dollar and the strong Canadian dollar was a big factor in their demise along with liberal Canadian work rules. Non union shop also..
If Honda is moving their motorcycle back to Japan--many reasons, too much competition here?, factory space better utuilized producing parts for Honda cars, and probably the growing world market is better served from Japan..
Let's say the days of the $100k paychecks of the UAW workers is over, and I know alot of people are happy, and it will have a trickle-down effect.
It's Tough to have it both ways..$100k/yr building Big3 cars and driving a foreign car to save a buck...The result--Surprise---NO JOB!!!!!! Ain't difficult to see the outcome of a simple economic lesson. Our schools and politicans really need a good dose of common sense....
I didn't miss those posts...I believe that NUMMI is an exception...it was a good number of years ago, IIRC, that GM approached Toyota and requested a joint venture, where GM supplied everything but wanted to "learn" how the Japanese do it so well (assuming that GM would ever change some of its arthritic hierarchy)...
In an attempt to get their foot in the door, Toy agreed to the venture with GM, knowing they would be working with the union in California...frankly, I consider Toy's attitude as patronizing, looking down on GM, and consenting to work with GM for some American goodwill...yes, they make cars there with the Toy badge, but I believe it is some of Toy's cheapest models...
If Toy learned anything, it was to avoid the UAW at all costs for all their other plants...I would bet that Toy got much more out of the deal than GM...
But, yes, in the strictest sense of the word, Toy works with the UAW...but on such a small scale, and it taught them so much about union work rules and the union worker attitude, Toy got more from the deal than GM, IMO...
Bob, my point was that if GM did this, the first consequence might be disgruntled, experienced Toyota employees jumping ship for "greener pastures", as at the very least you would be creating competition for the workforce.
The second consequence would be unionization of the Toyota plant.
The third, your scenario, would, in my estimation cause a backlash of bad publicity, making Toyota look like sore losers, taking their toys and going home. Some indifferent customers may look to other companies for their autos just so they can say they bought "American", even if they went to Honda or Hyundai, and not the Big 3.
Having said that, I'll reiterate what I said in my original post: I never see this happening, beacuse I see GM wanting the deal Toyota has w/ it's employees, and not wanting to impose the UAW work rules on Toyota.
Anyhow, the whole point was to show how competition between companies for employees can affect one another. The other unintended consequence of GM moving to Georgetown would be that they would create a higher demand for what is probably a limited number of people in the work pool, thus giving employees somewhat of an upper hand when negotiating their own wages at hiring time.
I guess I question whether disgruntled Toy employees would ever jump ship to GM...assuming I understand your point (and I may be missing your point by a mile) I might see Toy folks jumping 20 years ago, before the Japanese had many plants over here, and they simply did not know the American labor landscape...
But now, with UAW folks disappearing every day, and Big 3 market share dwindling daily, and still some folks who will never buy Big 3 because of quality problems of the past and their long memories, I really question whether ANYBODY would leave a growing company like Toy for a shrinking company like GM/Ford/Chrysler...
Even if GM set up next door and paid $5 more per hour, with all the animosity that is still directed at the UAW (and not just on these boards), Toy/Hon/Nissan employees will not jump ship due to the "job insecurity" that will permeate the Big 3 for a long, long time...
I have also been known to be very wrong in some of my opinions, thoughts, and conclusions...:):):)
Bob, I think my point had less to do with union vs. non-union and more to do with the issue of companies competing for employees as opposed to customers. Again, for the sake of argument, lets take the union out of the equation.
Say GM built a sprawling plant next to Toyota in Ky. This plant will build the next generation pickup/SUV. GM's truck lineup has a solid enough reputation industrywide to disspell quality issues. To try to disspell job insecurity, lets say this new plant will be GM's ONLY plant in NA to build trucks and SUV's. All consolidated in 1 plant.
The first issue at hand would be if the area has enough qualified workers to fill this plant. If there are, then my competition argument somewhat goes away. If it's tight, then maybe GM HAS to offer $5/hr more just to entice people.
Next, after any disgruntled Toyota employees are lured away, then you get to indifferent employees who may just look at it as hey, it's $5/hr more, so see ya!!!
Then, as both plants grow, they will compete for new hires.
Remember, I'm not even taking the union into account. If the GM plant unionized, it probably would put pressure on the Toyota plant, especially if things seem rosier at GM. But I feel that the competition alone would keep both companies on their toes. Think of it; any discrepancy between the 2 ( say safety, for example) like % of OTJ injuries will probably get play in the local media. Again, the people who would benefit most would be the workforce, union or no union.
yes, they make cars there with the Toy badge, but I believe it is some of Toy's cheapest models...
NUMMI produces Toyota Corollas and Toyota Tundras. These were, when NUMMI started production of them, among Toyota's most important products. They still remain key models in the Toyota lineup. GM has only sourced one vehicle at a time from this plant (Chevrolet Nova, GEO Prizm, Chevrolet Prizm, Pontiac Vibe), and in the past 20 years, the plant has been an important plant for Toyota but not as much for GM...even though GM still owns half of it.
Big 3 are not supporting the US they are moving assembly to mexico and china/asia, friend of mine was going to buy a 09 ford fusion, till he found out it will be made in china, now he doesn't know what he will buy.
Any production of the Fusion in China (which is not related to the US-market Fusion, by the way) will be for the Chinese market. All American-market Fusions are made in Mexico.
Comments
Follow the money---follow how we counter the problem---govt subsidized ethanol industry---our first entry into Nationalizing the "BIG OIL"..Your tax dollars at work...$6.00 gas in our future.
I wonder if Japan is growing corn on the tiny island---maybe they will give us $7.00 a bushel and we can export our corn----we gave them our electronics industry and our automotive market and we now have a chance to let them "Run the Farm".
We can't drill for oil, so how do we propel our existing 250,000,000 plus cars until they wearout..
Life changes are slow, for changes are done in dribbles, not noticeable until we are boxed in, now we find out that lack of oil and refineries will change our lives forever with drastic measures about to be set in place...Replay of Europe in the mid-1930s..
I used to pay$0.13/gal for gas at the PX gas station in Germany while on duty during the time frame 1958-1959. If I wanted premium fuel it was $0.25..My Porsche liked the premium grade.
I didn't mention Politics in this posting so I will let you fill in the blanks..Please bear in mind that the wealthy folks will pay the price at the pump and chuckle when they also buy your $300,000 house in foreclosure for maybe $75,000..
"Change" is on our doorstep, you had better "Hope" that it misses.
Buy whatever car that fits your taste and budget. Sad commentary, Lexus sales are off 25% on the high end models.
I ask the local Lexus dealer to quote me a price for 08 IS350, no optional equipment, for it is nicely equipped as a base offering, and their reply was "nothing ordered as base car for stock", however as a "special Order" there is a 4-6 mos time frame wait.. They offer big discounts up front.. They tried to get me in an IS250 which is underpowered and really a sad setup..I think the Lexus is 100% foreign content.. The Mustang is looking better even though it is not a "refined" car with proper "fit & finish" as praised by our Honda and Camary drivers..
Please watch out for "Change" and Let's "HOPE" life doesn't take that nasty turn..
Thanks again for advise on cheaper wheels--I will be on I-75 for about 250 miles so we shall know whether the existing wheel should be replaced--my last tank of gas yielded 19.23mpgs, so it is mandatory to make sure whatever is choking the engine is blown out the tailpipe, too much town driving is not good for the inerds..I shall have a large "Carbon Footprint" today. Maybe I should buy some "offsets"???
Don't tell Al, baby!!!!!
An interesting survey ranked all of the major automakers based on reliability, drive, fit and finish, etc. etc.
Not surprisingly, Honda and Toyota came out top. However, the real shocker was that Ford's reliability shot up quite a bit! They still can't compete against Honda due to their inferior fit and finish, but at least they are making some headway.
GM and Chrysler fell relative to reliability (surprise, surprise).
Here's hoping that at least ONE American car company can make a go at redeeming itself.
"In Ford's annual report, the company reclassified Jaguar and Land Rover as "Held-for-Sale Operations," which means they weren't yet completely discontinued operations, but they were headed in that direction."
Jaguar and Land Rover haven't been officially been reclassified as "Discontinued Operations" but Warranty Week made estimates based on them being completely off the books. If the estimates hold up with "real" numbers, Ford is doing good on quality.
By the government's accounting, Social Security is only "off budget" when it makes payments to retirees. It's always "on budget" when it collects money from income earners.
This 'wink and nod' accounting sounds similar to what Ford is doing -- saying 'sure, these divisions lose money, but they're for sale, so don't count it against our bottom line.'
Someone described accounting this way:
"Its whole object is to prove that two plus two equals four ..... but you'd be surprised at the number of people who try to stretch it to five."
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Land Rover has had record breaking sales for the past three years.
http://pcql.com/2007/01/25/sales-record-achieved-by-land-rover%E2%80%A6-again/
http://www.automotoportal.com/article/land-rovers-hat-trick-of-sales-success
Sales were up 17.6 percent world wide and 3 point something percent in the US. Jag's sales are in near free fall but Land Rover more then makes up for it. Jag will have double digit sales increases once the XF is on all the dealer's lots. You might not see the big increase in March but you will see it in April through the summer.
This 'wink and nod' accounting sounds similar to what Ford is doing -- saying 'sure, these divisions lose money, but they're for sale, so don't count it against our bottom line.'
Depending on which source you want to use Jag/LR combined made between 1 billion and 1.5 billion dollars on 2007.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080304/AUTO01/803040472/1148- - /rss25
http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-jaguar-and-land-rover-now-profitable.html
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/jag-and-land-rover-turned-the-corner/- -
Even TTAC reported on it and they are typically the most clueless of all the automotive blogs
The STOCK MARKET will get panned today----just keep buying those foreign cars and we shall relive the 1930s pretty darn quick....No oil, might be a good day to sell your gold watch you inherited..
Personally I like the older GM PU trucks pre 1998. Much more solidly built.
Nasser loved to spend money, big opera fan in Detroit and squandered millions of Ford bucks on his pleasure items..
I remember going to the "3 Tenors" event in 1999, still have the T-shirt...
Maybe he had a hand in the Volvo deal???
The Motor City was a fun place in the good old days before the politicians got involved in industry matters which they only understand if someone greased their palm with money..
Remember Jimmy Carter and his rant against the three "Martini Lunch".. 55 mph, and dial down the heat...Was't that a fine time-18% mortagage rates.. Well the entertainment just keeps going on---we stopped at 2 for lunch..
Jag and LR was another ego trip that has caused Ford to bleed--too bad for it was money spent in the wrong direction..Young Ford is somewhat liberal-moved from Grosse Pointe to ultra-liberal Ann Arbor some seven yrs ago..He should have stayed away from the Glass House and become a jet-setter..
My last gas purchase was great, Shell premium $3.579/gal., had traveled 310 miles and figured I needed at least 14 gals however I could only stuff 10.127 gals in the tank, averaging 30.61mpgs...pretty good deal and I shall use that pump in the future...No Supercharged V-6 of Pontiac hertiage gets that kind of mileage, normally does the 19-20 range..
In fact I may fill-up daily to take advantage of the gas "Fire Sale"..
The Michigan situation is serious and my land investments in the Detroit suburbs was a fatal mistake---big time loss, however my attorney seems jovial..Florida sucks also, except for the climate for most losses are in the 30% range and sinking..
Umm... If you had ASKED any of us who OWN a supercharged 3800, you would know that for the size of the car (4000+lbs) they get Exceptional gas mileage.
I get about 23 mpg in 50/50 mixed driving, and 31-33 doing about 60-65 in strictly highway. My uncle's '97 Ultra got a steady 29 mpg to and from Florida doing 75-80.
Now I will admit, in strictly in town driving, the gas mileage sucks (about16-17).
I find that hard to believe unless the S/C versions of the 3800 get better fuel efficiency than the N/A version.
My wife has an 07 GP 3800 for a company car. It's never gotten over 25mpg in hwy driving and averages 22 or so in mixed. Horrible car though, I wouldn't use my own money for one. No room, uncomfortable and marginal performance. The G8 can't come soon enough.
Also, I drove my dad's '00 Park Ave n/a from Florida to Indiana and averaged around 25mpg with cruise set at 80 most of the way with just me in the car.
My son is down from Detroit and hunting a car to replace his 02 Seville which ended up with cracked block after 160k mi., his fault, too busy pushing real estate deals in the depressed Mich area to have the water pump replaced. His tenth Caddy, and really no complaints. Worst buy was the 1993 Allante, a toy, had 42k miles when purchased--sold six yrs later with 55k, summer car only..Will get another Big 3 car--drove a new Dodge R/T Hemi, Dodge Charger SXT, GMC Acadia, GMC Envoy I-6 and a Caddy SRX V-6..The whole gamut no decision yet, since he likes to work the numbers, but he will return to Detroit next and beat up his favorite Caddy dealer for the best deal..He knows nothing about cars and despises the process of changing cars..It will be a Motor City car!!!!!!!
He would buy a Lexus----but he knows my rabid opinion of being loyal to the system that helped make this a great country.. The other guys make a great cars, but we tend to support the guys that supported us throughout the years..
I rented an '03 Lesabre in '03 and got 34 mpg going from Anaheim to San Diego. While in SD, it quickly dropped into the low 20's. As I said, I find them to be EXTREMELY thirsty in stop and go. My tach only reads 2000 rpm at 70 mph, and 1150 at 45, so my figures are achieveable.
The companies blame everyone but themselves.
Those million-dollar-a-month executives never dreamed that U.S. consumers would feel no more loyalty to an American badge on a foreign-built car than we do to a foreign badge on an American-built car (Honda, Toyota).
Even a million dollars a month doesn't buy common sense.
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Amazing!!!!! :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
The Big 3 STILL employ more people here, STILL build more cars here, and you think they're waving the white flag?????? You people think that by moving plants out of the country the Big 3 will lose customers, yet when I surmise the same thing would happen to the [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 if they moved production back home (as Honda is doing w/ their motorcycles). You guys refuse to believe it.
Most union people are paid more than they are worth, know a longshoreman that works 2 days a week and makes 6 figure income, guy is a total idiot, laughs about shipping containers that they drop, and damage that they do unloading ships.
My guess is ETHANOL laced gas. I lose about 1-2 MPG on my Sequoia with gas diluted with ethanol.
It's a shame they laugh about the damage they cause, and the lack of caring that comes along w/it (ever open a box that's damaged and have the product you bought damaged along w/ it???).
However, how many hours a day does he work??(2, 24 hr shifts??). If you think they are overpaid, try doing their job for a month, and see if you think they are. I'll bet most of us would shut our mouths and accept what "OTHERS" make if we did.
Would be interested in seeing some statistics on American assembly line workers with 30-35 years service in terms of hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder/back health. Do they have more incidence of carpal tunnel, arthritis, etc? How would this compare to 30-35 year desk jockey clerks, accountants, engineeers.
Seeing more mechanization and robotics on assembly lines in recent years, perhaps the younger generation of American assembly workers will have less body damage than their older bretheren.
I keep hearing the Walmart wage being brought up and quite frankly, their are many who work for Walmart and other retail companies that make far more than UAW wages.
Actually, retail is still one of the few industries where a kid can go to work straight out of HS and work his/her way up. I know many in retail management w/o a degree making good money. My dad has worked for the same grocery chain for 38 years. Has never been laid of, didn't go to college and has worked his way up to an over 100k salary and a good retirement nest egg.
My wife has worked for the same retail chain since she was 17. She's 36 now and her employer paid for her to go to college. She started as a cashier and is now a DM. I won't say what she makes, but only it it's several times that of UAW wages.
Exactly.
Ironically I drove by the Laborer's Union Local 703 hall the other day and well over half of the vehicles in the parking lot were Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's, and even a few Lexus'. I was shocked at the lack of domestics parked in their lot.
The flaw in the argument is that Wal-Mart can't get away with paying $6.50/hr in California by arguing that Target pays $6.25/ hr in Mississsppi, because Wal-Mart NEEDS employees in California to make money there. They can't pay an employee in Miss. to cash out a customer in Cal.
Car companies that are new to America can cherry pick where they want to open a new factory to "manipulate" the wage market to their advantage.
What I would find interesting would be if GM built a factory right next door to Toyota's Georgetown, Ky. factory, and paid the union wages, what that would do to Toyota.
Not exactly on topic, but there's a union vote coming up in a Toyota factory up in Ontario this week (link) that could also answer your question.
I don't think I was trying to take this to the UAW topic, but just trying to make a point that, while the UAW may manipulate the prevailing wage up north with the threat of strikes and getting union friendly labor laws, companies like Toyota or Hyundai manipulate the market by going to places that are company friendly and have significantly lower costs of living. Now, in my scenario, GM would never just bring the union with them, because I believe Rick Wagoner would want to rid GM of unions as much as Watanabe wants to keep them out. But, what would happen if GM moved next door to Toyota in Kentucky or next to Hyundai in Alabama and paid them wages and benefits the same as their union counterparts up north??? I think that toyota and Hyundai would have a big headache on their hands just trying to keep their current employees, let alone keeping them from unionizing.
And, to weave this into this thread (no pun), if the Foreign automakers were to pull out because of that, I believe that there would be backlash over the loss of jobs, and the fact that these cars are no longer "American Made"
They would not tolerate the union, IMO, simply because of the restrictive work rules, and they would let the workers know that while they have the RIGHT to vote on a union, they do NOT have the right to a job...Toy would simply take the loss and leave the area, letting the workers be unionized but unemployed...
All it would take is ONE plant, and when import workers in other plants learn of their "brethren" losing their well paying jobs (compared to what most folks make) by joining a union, watch the union movement die an even faster death...
That is what I would do...losing a few hundred million $$$ on one plant would save them hundreds of BILLIONS in the future, plus throw a C4 explosive into the union movement in the South...
The Big 3 was plagued with their supply chain-internally and externally being heavily unionized, with crazy work rules, high wages, and benefits galore. On the flip side the Asians bought their own suppliers over, invading small towns close to their assembly operations and started out with a clean sheet of paper, no past obligations, no retirement packages, no big health insurance packages, and the little towns and state govts used our taxpaper's dollars to entice the Asians--sweetheart deals. Screwed the Big 3 from day one..
I have been there---watched it and done it..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Fremont plant is an assembly plant operation, joint operation with Asians and using mostly Asian supplied parts on cars sporting a GM badge..I believe mostly compact type cars are produced at this location.. It's a "feel good" operation for California.. GM has another joint venture in Ingersol, Ontario, Canada...Isuzu I believe..
I spent 32 years on the supply side of the game and I watched many auto suppliers slowly bleed into bankruptcy..Last Dec one of my principals in Ontario, Canada, a "Hot Forging Operation" started in 1989, high sales of approx 20 mil/yr went down the tube owing 5mil..Volume mostly forged suspension parts for Big 3..The weakening US dollar and the strong Canadian dollar was a big factor in their demise along with liberal Canadian work rules. Non union shop also..
If Honda is moving their motorcycle back to Japan--many reasons, too much competition here?, factory space better utuilized producing parts for Honda cars, and probably the growing world market is better served from Japan..
Let's say the days of the $100k paychecks of the UAW workers is over, and I know alot of people are happy, and it will have a trickle-down effect.
It's Tough to have it both ways..$100k/yr building Big3 cars and driving a foreign car to save a buck...The result--Surprise---NO JOB!!!!!! Ain't difficult to see the outcome of a simple economic lesson. Our schools and politicans really need a good dose of common sense....
In an attempt to get their foot in the door, Toy agreed to the venture with GM, knowing they would be working with the union in California...frankly, I consider Toy's attitude as patronizing, looking down on GM, and consenting to work with GM for some American goodwill...yes, they make cars there with the Toy badge, but I believe it is some of Toy's cheapest models...
If Toy learned anything, it was to avoid the UAW at all costs for all their other plants...I would bet that Toy got much more out of the deal than GM...
But, yes, in the strictest sense of the word, Toy works with the UAW...but on such a small scale, and it taught them so much about union work rules and the union worker attitude, Toy got more from the deal than GM, IMO...
I may also be wrong............:):):):):)
The second consequence would be unionization of the Toyota plant.
The third, your scenario, would, in my estimation cause a backlash of bad publicity, making Toyota look like sore losers, taking their toys and going home. Some indifferent customers may look to other companies for their autos just so they can say they bought "American", even if they went to Honda or Hyundai, and not the Big 3.
Having said that, I'll reiterate what I said in my original post: I never see this happening, beacuse I see GM wanting the deal Toyota has w/ it's employees, and not wanting to impose the UAW work rules on Toyota.
Anyhow, the whole point was to show how competition between companies for employees can affect one another. The other unintended consequence of GM moving to Georgetown would be that they would create a higher demand for what is probably a limited number of people in the work pool, thus giving employees somewhat of an upper hand when negotiating their own wages at hiring time.
But now, with UAW folks disappearing every day, and Big 3 market share dwindling daily, and still some folks who will never buy Big 3 because of quality problems of the past and their long memories, I really question whether ANYBODY would leave a growing company like Toy for a shrinking company like GM/Ford/Chrysler...
Even if GM set up next door and paid $5 more per hour, with all the animosity that is still directed at the UAW (and not just on these boards), Toy/Hon/Nissan employees will not jump ship due to the "job insecurity" that will permeate the Big 3 for a long, long time...
I have also been known to be very wrong in some of my opinions, thoughts, and conclusions...:):):)
Say GM built a sprawling plant next to Toyota in Ky. This plant will build the next generation pickup/SUV. GM's truck lineup has a solid enough reputation industrywide to disspell quality issues. To try to disspell job insecurity, lets say this new plant will be GM's ONLY plant in NA to build trucks and SUV's. All consolidated in 1 plant.
The first issue at hand would be if the area has enough qualified workers to fill this plant. If there are, then my competition argument somewhat goes away. If it's tight, then maybe GM HAS to offer $5/hr more just to entice people.
Next, after any disgruntled Toyota employees are lured away, then you get to indifferent employees who may just look at it as hey, it's $5/hr more, so see ya!!!
Then, as both plants grow, they will compete for new hires.
Remember, I'm not even taking the union into account. If the GM plant unionized, it probably would put pressure on the Toyota plant, especially if things seem rosier at GM. But I feel that the competition alone would keep both companies on their toes.
Think of it; any discrepancy between the 2 ( say safety, for example) like % of OTJ injuries will probably get play in the local media. Again, the people who would benefit most would be the workforce, union or no union.
NUMMI produces Toyota Corollas and Toyota Tundras. These were, when NUMMI started production of them, among Toyota's most important products. They still remain key models in the Toyota lineup. GM has only sourced one vehicle at a time from this plant (Chevrolet Nova, GEO Prizm, Chevrolet Prizm, Pontiac Vibe), and in the past 20 years, the plant has been an important plant for Toyota but not as much for GM...even though GM still owns half of it.
Any production of the Fusion in China (which is not related to the US-market Fusion, by the way) will be for the Chinese market. All American-market Fusions are made in Mexico.
And this is an improvement how, exactly?