Now why would the Detroit auto guys build new plants when they can't utilize their existing structures..Maybe when they start building golf carts the dream could come true..The monies spent assembling cars is small compared to the sum of the outside purchased parts and assemlies..The pricing of all the items for an Asian car is substantially less than the Big 3 pays..
That's why the Big 3 is forced to buy more foreign made components for their production..The traditional Big 3 supplier is too expensive in this Asian dominated world..The Asians will use some old-line suppliers if they can run the show and the company is on the threshold of bankruptcy...It is not a pretty picture with them involved, no fun, no money slopped around for the good life..
I enjoyed my self-employed years as a commissioned agent and did no business with the Asians for they like a long-extended get acquainted period with a series of plant visits over 18-24 months and meetings galore, then the pricing is another matter..I spent two years running the sales of a [non-permissible content removed] transplant, and believe me there are much easier ways to make money..
On the positive side, my son is buying a new Caddy CTS to replace his Caddy SLS with 160k miles and the cracked block..It will be another long bout of high mileage..Florida dealers are not discounting the car, but his Michigan dealer did the deal for $35,264 versus MSRP $40,190. Tradein of the SLS will be deducted from the $35,264 when they decide its worth..Leather seating, 306hp V-6, Luxury Collection Pkg, and Sun roof.. The Mich dealer sold 48 CTSs so far during March..
Another sale for the Big 3, good decision, for he steered away from the Asians, his 11th Caddy and really no complaints, some years better than others, but his loyality is to Detroit..I sure he will miss the FWD in the winter, but it is only a short time of the year--drive slower or stay in..
cooter: I believe I see your point, and if you remove the union factor (altho I fail to see how you could in a real life example) your point is well taken, and I think I agree with you...
hudson: while Corollas are still on the low end, I was unaware that the plant also made Tundras...but, aside from that plant, which is obviously unionized, does Toy have unions at any other plants???
While you make a strong point, and Toy has obviously maintained their working relationship at NUMMI, I still think that if their own plants threatened to unionize, Toy would never permit it, they would shut down and move the plant, despite the expense, leaving those workers jobless...I think NUMMI just proves that they did stick with a plant that they knew was unionized the day they walked into it, as they were partnering with GM...if not for the GM side, I think they would avoid the union like the plague...
Bob, someone in this thread provided a link to a story of a Toyota plant in Cambridge, Ontario(??) that was voting on unionization last week. No info as to the results. I would have to say if they are that unhappy with the working conditions that they would call for a union vote, and could potentially lose their jobs to a plant in the US that's not unionized, if Toyota decided to one up them, then well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
In other news, this op-ed piece is floating around:
Compensation per worker at insourcing companies (like Tata, now of Land Rover/Jaguar fame) was $66,042 in 2005 -- 31.8% above the average for the rest of the private sector of $50,124. Insourcing companies employed nearly 5.1 million Americans, 4.4% of the private-sector labor force in '05.
Congratulations to your son on his new Cadillac CTS! He's had eleven Cadillacs? Wow! What were they? I'm currently on my fifth Cadillac. My previous Cadillacs were:
hudson: while Corollas are still on the low end, I was unaware that the plant also made Tundras...but, aside from that plant, which is obviously unionized, does Toy have unions at any other plants???
My error...it is the TACOMA, not the Tundra that is produced at NUMMI. I typed faster than my brain was working.
No, Toyota doesn't have any other unionized plants in North America. The UAW has tried, and failed, to unionize Georgetown.
And Toyota can't be all that bad of an employer without the union. When they announced the opening of the San Antonio plant (this one is the second of the Tundra, not Tacoma, plants), they had about 100,000 applicants for something like 3,000 jobs.
On the positive side, my son is buying a new Caddy CTS to replace his Caddy SLS with 160k miles and the cracked block..It will be another long bout of high mileage...
Is 160,000 "high mileage?" A cracked block at 160,000 (unless bad maintenence is involved) in a modern car is absurd. I would expect just about any modern car to top 200,000 without a major problem.
a cracked block with that kind of mileage would reduce your caddy to the value of scrap metal, which wasn't high to start with. How much was it brand new?
Before you all start screaming, checkout the TMV prices of used caddys. Just don't shoot the messenger.
s 160,000 "high mileage?" A cracked block at 160,000 (unless bad maintenance is involved) in a modern car is absurd. I would expect just about any modern car to top 200,000 without a major problem.
I'd say that's a bit of a stretch, but with proper maintenance most probably could if one could tolerate all the little issues and squeaks and rattles that develop along the way. I personally don't know to many that have gone past 200k miles. My dad did get 230k w/o anything major going wrong with a '92 crown vic other than a couple of fuel pumps and starters. Granted it was pretty much shot when he got rid of it. His current 2000 Taurus is at 165k w/o any major issues. The key for him is when something starts to go wrong he gets it fixed pronto and performs all needed maintenance.
On the GM side my family just hasn't had much luck. I've got 105k on my '00 Suburban and I'm on transmission #2 and A/C compressor #2 among may other parts, not to mention trans #2 is starting to slip on occasion. My parent's inherited a '00 Park Ave that was a disaster, blown head gasket by 80k miles, bad intake manifold, my dad gave it to my sister to finish college and she finally trade the POS on a Honda a few months ago, because at 120k it spewed oil out of the rear main and nothing electrical hardly worked.
I have to disagree. If you had said that your car reached 160,000 miles thirty years ago, I think many would have been impressed. Today, a car easily reaches 100,000 miles without major problems (some companies even offer warranties to that point)...and beyond.
My numbers are based partially on my experiences with people throughout the industry and partially based on my personal car. When I bought it, it was ranked as the second LOWEST quality brand sold in the US. Now, 16 years later, the car still runs like a top and sports 160,000 miles on the clock.
I would expect a Cadillac to top 160,000 miles without a cracked block (unless the maintanence hadn't been done regularly). I would expect that same car to run relatively trouble-free past 200,000 miles. I've seen used car lots around here with Toyota Camrys with 200+K on them and various other cars with over 300k on them...all in reasonably good conditions.
I also expect most cars to go 100k w/o major issues. But I've also had several that have had expensive repairs long before 100k and know many others that have had trans failures well before 100k. For example, I put close to $5k into my Suburban between 45k miles and 100k on such repairs.
I'd bet many times something expensive like a transmission will fail around 150k and the owner will dump the car for a new one tell those around them that it died. The car then sold at action cheap and the buyer throws in a new trans and the car is good for another 50-100k.
In my experience, by the time most vehicles get to the 100k-150k range they develop lots of little irritants that drive me nuts. My Suburban is getting to that point at a 105k. Rattles and electrical gremlins that nickel and dime me to death and drive me nuts at the same time. I have no doubt the 5.3 in my Suburban should go 200k plus, it's the rest of the vehicle that I have my doubts.
Yes a Northstar v8 should crack a block at 160k and most probably don't, no doubt some will.
"My error...it is the TACOMA, not the Tundra that is produced at NUMMI. I typed faster than my brain was working"
Hey, that's OK...if you only knew how many times I write something just prior to going to sleep, only to find that I went to sleep 10 minutes ago, sat at my computer, typed what I thought was an intelligent post, and then stumbled off to bed...
I think I read in today's USA Today that the sale of Land Rover and Jag to Tata has been completed...Ford sold them for 2.3 billion $$$, much less than what they paid for them...
Didn't Mercedes pay about 35 Billion $$$ for Chrysler, only to sell it to Cerberus for 7 Billion $$$...???...if true, M-B took one heck of a bath on that one...
"Hey, that's OK...if you only knew how many times I write something just prior to going to sleep, only to find that I went to sleep 10 minutes ago, sat at my computer, typed what I thought was an intelligent post, and then stumbled off to bed..."
Been there. Done that.
Oh, yeah. Daimler took an absolute bath on Chrysler and pretty much destroyed any long term future for Chrysler while they were at it. I am still of the opinion that at one point Cerberus is just going to sell off the profitable pieces and dump it. I'm just happy that they seem to be trying to make a go of it in the meantime. I've seen the first sing here of the dealer consolidation around here. The long time Chrysler dealership is gone, apparenty to give the Jeep dealership that one.
Meanwhile, on long term cars, my 00 Accord will turn 150K this week. Worst thing I had to do was replace the tail light lens because someone hit it. There've been a couple of brake jobs but that's about it other than routine maintenance. I expect at least 200K out of it. Likely more.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
My 1989 Cadillac Brougham has 157K miles and a friend of mine has a 1988 Cadillac Brougham with 283K miles. The only things I can think of that might crack a block are freezing or overheating. I imagine engines still use soft plugs in the event of a frozen block.
Oh, I see plenty of Camries with 200K miles but none of them are in very good condition by any stretch of the imagination. A co-worker has a black 1992 Camry with 212K miles but it looks like it was in a war. The paint is shot, he can't open the left rear door. The decklid is difficult to open, and a constellation of idiot lights constantly glow on the dashboard. Another guy has a 1999 Camry and it is a rusted-out paint peeling mess. I guess they did get their money out of them, but I usually ditch a car before it looks like these examples. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue doesn't look so hot these days, but it's a concours classic compared to these two.
My daughter has a 99 Camry with 108K or so. It's not nearly in the shape that my Accord is but she has the disadvantage of an unknown previous owner. Ugh. The Accord I've had since it was a pup.
While we have two Hondas and a Toyota all were built here more or less. The Accord in Ohio, the Ody in Alabama and the Camry in Kentucky.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Toyota and Honda were having banner years, the Big 3 was selling cars also, but bleeding to death and losing gobs of money..The Big 3 started buyouts of employees and closing plants, downsizing and ordering their major suppliers to construct plants in Mexico on new contracts starting back in 2000..
Since many of the major component suppliers are unionized with heavy burdens of debt to keep modernizing their facilities and trying to offset pricing decreases by the Big 3 purchasing depts, they just went out of business. I personally know of several cases where the supplier was told---all new contracts are to come out of .the Mexician facility--not the Ohio plant. Since the Ohio plant was unionized they were instructed to not switch current production items to Mexico for it would upset the union. Outcome --- the Ohio plant bleeds slowly, and is gone in a few years..
There is a tremendous trickle down effect and soon all parts suppliers are in foreign countries and America has no industrial base..We go to recession, then slowly head to a depression.
In our industrial base, the Asians don't count, for their monies go back home--after they pay their reduced tax rates stateside and a few employees..Our heavy industry is gone mainly due to our Government imposed rules and regulations involving pollution,health and safety, high taxation, and all the feel good laws.
Do you think the Chinese or the Mexician authorities worry about all these American standards???? Workmans Comp? Pollution? Health&Safety?? If you get hurt---BYE-BYE...Follow the tennis shoe manufacturing base..and they will be doing Auto seats next..The forging and casting industry is almost a dead deal..
How many posters on this site are driving Asian cars????? sounds like quite few..
Finally a bright spot in our dismal marketplace----The CTS Caddy is in short supply and eating up Bimmers, Audis, and M-Bs, maybe a few Asians. My son was informed that his CTS wasn't available for a least four weeks and then he found out his real estate signs wouldn't fit in the car, so he is still on the hunt..The STS is too expensive, and the DTS is too big.. Told him to go buy a loaded Impala LTZ and get on with life..He sold his cracked block 160k mi Caddy for $2000.. Should be able to get $5000 off MRSP on a new Chevy. Admittedly it is not hi-tech transportation and he will not like the car..but it will allow him some wheels to move our depressed Michigan real estate holdings..
Yes the cracked block was probably a oversight on his part, for the oil was changed every 3-4,000 miles, never could figure out how he went that long since the Northstars sucked dealership Mobil oil about a qt/1500 mi..The cast iron Chevy block should be more forgiving on maintenance..
I had a 85 Eldo-company car, inherited from the company ex-president--dumped it after two months. My wife had the Caddies-1991 Deville Touring Sedan, 1996 Sedan Deville, and a 2003 STS..Decent cars and I only drove them for service or the Mich-Fla bouts..They loved the straight open road-rock and roll, pedal to the metal. GM put a new 4.9 liter engine in the 91 Touring Sedan @59kmiles..Piston slap, replaced several pistons earlier..all free. put 150 miles on the new engine, stuck the car in our garage, bought her a 96 Sedan Deville and left for Fla.. Babied it from Detroit to Cinncinati for it's breakin period and then let her rip. Sold the 96er at about 90k miles..Sold the 91 sedan to a private party...gave it away..The STS was a short affair due to my wife's pending illness and I am not a Caddy lover, they are somewhat needy, but very comfortable..I prefer the medium size, tight suspension, and the best wheel balance job I can find, I will pay big.. Nothing like calm steering wheel at speed..
My Mustang GT isn't too far away...Old tech, but who cares...It's all American!!!!!!!!
Well, at least most the car will have the American hertiage...You Think???
I've owned one asian vehicle and that was a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, which had great reliability, refinement, and fit and finish.
Well, maybe I've owned two. In college I had a Mercury Tracer that was basically a Mazda 323 and was made in Mexico.
Wife has a '07 GrandPrix for a company car and I currently have a 2000 Suburban which also was made in Mexico and the build quality shows it.
I wonder what percentage of GM's fullsize SUVs are made in Mexico. I was looking at a 3/4 ton GMC Yukon XL that also was made south of the border.
By far most of the vehicles I've owned have been from the domestics, but unfortunately the most rewarding vehicles I've owned have been asian or german.
...have always been Buicks. My first car was a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe that was still running in 1992. My second car was a 1979 Buick Park Avenue with the 403 V-8 that was trouble-free and would probably still be with me if I didn't wreck it. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue still has a lot of life in it despite it's cruddy appearance, and my girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to go in for any unscheduled maintenance.
The last two of Nasser's blunders are wiped from the books, it may slow down the bleeding from Dearborn..but Ford will have new owners by years end for the family is somewhat tired of the watching their fortunes dwindle..Chrysler will have new owners soon.
If the Asians are suppying 40% of the domestic sales, then how come Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and Tennesse are experiencing recessions, plant closings, and hard times.It's the "sucking sound" from Mexico,Japan, China, and Europe pulling the greenbacks out of the USofA....
My daughter's father-in-law sold his company to a Canadian auto supplier back in 1995, foreseeing slimmer growth ahead and foreign invasion. The company was 90 yrs old with plants in 10 states, Mexico and a joint venture in China..It was an excellent decision for it is easier to work with a pile of money than to try and manage a company through a mine field..During the last 10 days we golfed,broke bread, and contemplated the future..discussed the past.. My daughter lives on Venice island about 6 miles from me..Her father-in-law still lives in Michigan and does the Fla trip three times a yr, taking in the Masters Tourement on the Spring time trip..After the long winter it's important to get the golf game pre-tuned for the long summer up north..
Having been in the auto supplier business for decades and manufacturing products used in all vehicles his decision to sell was a wise one based on the knowledge of his extensive Asian and worldwide travels, that the global market was a new challenge requiring lots of capital{money} to stay in the game..
Buicks are OK., had a few..new 73 Lesabre 4dr w/455 ci V-8, had rod clatter, was short-blocked by Buick,, got rid of it,, got into a series of Pontiac Grand Prixs,, LJ models,74,76,77, big block V-8s,lthr,and sunroofs--all went to 90k miles and were absolutely the greatest..no problems.
Next Buick was a new 81 Riviera V-8 gone after 20k miles.Bought wife a new 87 Electra T-Type, gone after 35k miles. next one 92 Regal GS-gone after 95k miles and the last one was a 94 LeSabre gone after 110k..
The worst part of a Buick is the suspension, even the ones with the sport suspension ???? soft, long stroke, like riding in a rocking chair..Cupped tires and shimmy prone..I had new struts, Monore HD put on the 94 around 50k mi. and cured the problem. Drivetrain--no problems with any of them, A/C no problem at all.
The 3.8 engine always ran well, replaced a water pump on the Regal otherwise oil changes every 5k and filters, air filters every 25k..Lots of tires, lots of free tires from Goodyear, and Firestone. The rear tires would flat spot/cup..
Buicks suspension was not made for the high speed interstate travel .
They are good reliable everyday cars and will be better when GM installs the 3.6 V-6 w/6spd auto and firms up the suspension..
My son had this car dilema whereas his 2002 Caddy Seville with 160k was terminal, and the CTS waiting period was min. of 4wks..He shopped for a day and got a 2008 300C w/Hemi, leather&sunroof. Got $4000 for the Caddy plus another $7000 in discounts and rebates..
Not my favorite pick, but it's mostly American, motor is a Mexico item and car is assembled in Canada..
Any dealer willing to give $4K for a dead Caddy and an additional $7K discount really tells you how urgent they need to sell the car OR the actual value of that car.
My son had this car dilema whereas his 2002 Caddy Seville with 160k was terminal, and the CTS waiting period was min. of 4wks..He shopped for a day and got a 2008 300C w/Hemi, leather&sunroof. Got $4000 for the Caddy plus another $7000 in discounts and rebates..
Not my favorite pick, but it's mostly American, motor is a Mexico item and car is assembled in Canada..
So he bought a German car built in Canada with a Mexican engine? Yup, paint that thing red white and blue all over.
He wrote the check, and it's what he wanted...He is aware that it depreciates like a brick in water, and loves gasoline..What's another few bucks a month for gas. At least he stayed away from the Lexus..After all he makes a living selling real estate in the Detroit burbs, so it shows some hometown effort..
I agree the Hemi is a tough sell, but he has several close friends who have the Hemis, and they love them.. One also has a Vette..Sells steel to the auto suppliers, tough racket these days..
The 3.5 V-6 engine is not an ecomony champ either and a loaded V-6 Chrysler 300 is in the same price range as his Hemi..The V-6 does not have the auto-temp control feature or at least one should have that on a $37k car..
Shell Oil gas in Fla has now picked up on the 10% ethanol in the three blends and cut my mileage by 12% on the thristy SC Pontiac.
Buying and selling foreclosed properties is the upscale profession in Michigan...It will hit the East Coast....be patient..
I foreclosed on high-flying developer on 2/1/08 involving 60 acres on an Interstate exchange north of Detroit, zoned commerical, can't wait to get it back..I was the high bidder at the Sheriffs sale..The developer has 180 days to redeem the land by paying me all monies owed..Deficiency judgements have also been filed..
It's a whole new world out there, just keep plenty of cash around to weather the upcoming storm..
Meanwhile, buy Big 3 car or truck to get the country rolling again..
Besides the CTS being an "hot item", the lowly Malibu 3.6 LTZ is being gobbled up at record numbers, no discounts, no rebates and no inventory..
It's a whole new world out there, just keep plenty of cash around to weather the upcoming storm..
Meanwhile, buy Big 3 car or truck to get the country rolling again..
So far, (knock on fake wood grain) I'm in good shape with my mortgage. Unfortunately, I'm a couple years away from needing a new car. My only question is a shiny new Buick, or a Volt.
Buick will pick up the 3.6 and a decent automatic trans, and they will come back..
The Volt is not on my list, just another attempt to appease the Left Coast..Carbon Footprints ala Gore is an extortation racket---Mafia style..Global warning chatter has made him a rich man.
I don't want to get on the political side of this issue..There is an active volcano in Hawaii and it is spewing all the bad things into the atmosphere, maybe the lefties could shut it down or sic the enviro-whackos on it, or pass legislation outlawing volcanoes...Now that would be real power!!!!!!
Alot of people got filthy rich on the tobacco settlement/extortation...and they.. contributed a high percentage back to the left. Climate change is the next earmark..
The UAW is all but dead, nobody gets unionized during a depression, people will work to put food on the table..After the Michigan politicans realized that their sweetheart UAW was beaten at Asian transplants, they threw the Detroit Big 3 under the bus..Just follow the money, UAW was out of money and didn't have the clout for their membership has been halved, with starting wages shaved by 50% and production switched to other countries
Alternative energy does not lower the price of oil----remember the 250,000,000 autos on our highways---they love old-fashioned gas, ethanol is a pipe-dream, sun, solar, and hydrogen are decades away if ever..Lots of sweetheart contracts being issued in the name of Alternative Energy..Our tax dollars..
I dunno, I just thought for the right price the Volt might be a good commuter car, not a family car. When my wife wants to trade her Rainier in, then we'll get a family car. I'm not into enviromental craziness, but I do like to do what I can to conserve. Personally, I like to keep my cars 8-10 years (problem is, I'm always on the troll for one).
Besides the CTS being an "hot item", the lowly Malibu 3.6 LTZ is being gobbled up at record numbers, no discounts, no rebates and no inventory..
OH wow, you mean when a domestic manufacturer makes a competitive product, people buy it? Thats crazy talk. Honestly, the CTS looks pretty bada** if you ask me, although I think it is a hermaphrodite. They did all these commercials to make it look masculine and apply to men, and then they show all these women driving it around because they want to be manly. The Malibu is a midsize family sedan. There is nothing sexy about that entire group. Pick the bloby rounded body you like from your country of origin of choice, pick your payment plan and start sucking gasoline. That said, I think it as as good an entry as anything else in the class. I spent some time in an Aura with the 3.6 and I think it sounds fantastic when you are on the gas. Its not a car for me because I like a more interactive driving experience and GM doesn't have any manual transmissions, but for like my mom or something, great car.
The CTS is available with a 6spd manual, and yes? both sexes can drive the car..At my age a manual shift or oar would be good for a couple weeks and then give me the automatic.
Having coffee, smoking, cell phoning gets somewhat confusing/dangerous if I have to manually find the next gear, thought process is a little slow at my age..I could spill the coffee--bad stain--ruin a Ralph Lauren white polo shirt--or burn a hole in something--open sunroof gets rid of the smoke...yep I run the a/c with the sunroof open when it gets in the high 80s-100..
Visited my favorite Shell station this morning and my favorite pump returned the with a bonus..6.418 gals of prem gas =28.04mpg. Digital readout on dash showed average gas mpg to be 20.4 which is using 2 mpgs high., so I saved about $12.30, Love Big Oil!!!!
OPEC says lots of crude in pipeline so they will not increase production, next meeting in Sept 2008. Here comes the $4.00 gal gas, refineries switching to summer blend formulations, lower production levels and the added expense of meeting our Govt. imposed "feel good" enviro laws..
Opec says high price of crude is based on: weak US dollar compared to other currencies-namely the Euro, lack of refining capacity in the USA, and Political chaos in various govts..US Congress..
We know "Climate Change" is continuously happening and when was the last time a Caribou, Polar Bear, or Turtle did anything for your paycheck..We are now sending our tax dollars to promote their welfare, not our well-being.
Congress ranted for years on Auto safety, now they want us to drive golf carts to save the planet..Follow the MONEY----Carbon credits----GReen living----Ethanol subsidies to pollute our enviroment....
Somewhere I have read that we scrap about 7,000,000 cars/yr, build about 16,000,000/yr, and have about 250,000,000 on the road at this time..Do the math on your alternate energy to keep the fleet running and the country rolling on oil..
Maybe Toyota and Oprah can band together, distributing Priuses to anyone forced to drive a 10-15 yr gas gushling junker to save the planet..
Our American car dilemna is strictly political, our govt has just performed some big bailouts of our financial markets, however they despise our Big 3..why? no money left. The Asians are generous in their contributions to the party of the left coast.
What's coming after the Nov election will not be pretty...
Keep your job, keep paying your SS and Medicare taxes for I am enjoying that little extra money every month, after all they now say Social Security will be broke by 2012 and Medicare by 2020 or maybe visa-versa..We have a good health care system and I sure don't want to pay your health care costs via universal health care which equals no health care..Democrats can't figure out how to run their own primary elections---how could they coup with universal health care.?????
Buy a Big 3 car or truck for we are about to lose own industry that has so dearly contributed to our FREEDOM..Without freedom, we have nothing...
The Asians are generous in their contributions to the party of the left coast.
Ah, so that's why Toyota,Hyundai, etc. keep building their new factories in the red states of the Deep South instead of Michigan.
"In 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004, Toyota Motor Sales USA gave a respective 82 percent, 60 percent, 99 percent and 61 percent of its political contributions to Republican causes, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. That is roughly in line with the two-thirds Republican breakdown of contributions from the Big Three." boston.com
Now that the Dems are in, the contributions in the last year has shifted to them. Meanwhile I'm reminded of Will Roger's famous organized political party quote.
If times really get bad, we can just nationalize all those foreign owned auto factories on our shores, eh?
The CTS is really hot! When I bought my DTS Performance, the dealership sold out of their CTS's. As I was closing the deal on my ride, a woman came in and asked the salesman if they had any CTS's. This woman really looked as if she would've bought one then and there if they had one. Heck, I would've bought one too, but I got such a deal on the DTS, I couldn't pass it up. Besides, but the time I got a CTS spec'd up to the level of the DTS I bought, I probably would've paid more.
Steve; Thanks for bringing that to my attention about the left coast and the Asians uniting on the global warming issue. Honda and Toyota both know that the Big 3 fights incresed mileage edicts for the major money makers for Detroit is the pickup and SUV segment.. The Asians put their weight behind the left hand knowing that Detroit would fight any increase in mileage stds and the Asians didn't make a ripple, in fact they smiled for the left was doing their dirty work for them..Ah-So!!!
The Dems have their hand out for anything to advance their cause..If it means killing the Big 3---so be it!!!
The right-hand helped advance the early cause for the Asians and expand the industrial base in America, and the Asians love the Left coasts stance on Warming.. The right hand loves business and the left hand casts business as mean and greedy---really a shake down for campaign funds.. . The red southern states are close to the Mexico supply of Asian part suppliers that have been in Mexico for years..Besides our NASCAR buddies need a daytime job...
Idaho is really removed from any part of our Midwest problems..
Did I mention that the Asians stayed away from Michigan so as to avoid the UAW and upsetting their global plan..Jefferson Ave , Motown is the UAWs dwindling stance..
The left hand doesn't have to nationalize the automotive, Japan has saved them the trouble..The Asian guys have been operating under that shield since day 1..
The DTS is a great car, does all things well and subject to current discounting along with great rebates. The CTS is not being discounted and the loaded ones are in the high 40s..
I would buy the cheapo CTS with the big V-6, FE2 suspension, leatherette interior, and sunroof..No frills...Maybe they would throw in a roadmap in lieu of nav..
I stopped buying the Deville Caddies when they changed body style in 2000..I drove several dealer loaners and noticed high noise levels w/o sunroofs option..I am sure that has been corrected over the years..
I like to stay under $ 30k on my car buying..new and under 20k on used ones..Restrictions of retirement living, since all income is from investments..Cds are in the toilet now, and I short the S&P for any gains..
Comments
That's why the Big 3 is forced to buy more foreign made components for their production..The traditional Big 3 supplier is too expensive in this Asian dominated world..The Asians will use some old-line suppliers if they can run the show and the company is on the threshold of bankruptcy...It is not a pretty picture with them involved, no fun, no money slopped around for the good life..
I enjoyed my self-employed years as a commissioned agent and did no business with the Asians for they like a long-extended get acquainted period with a series of plant visits over 18-24 months and meetings galore, then the pricing is another matter..I spent two years running the sales of a [non-permissible content removed] transplant, and believe me there are much easier ways to make money..
On the positive side, my son is buying a new Caddy CTS to replace his Caddy SLS with 160k miles and the cracked block..It will be another long bout of high mileage..Florida dealers are not discounting the car, but his Michigan dealer did the deal for $35,264 versus MSRP $40,190. Tradein of the SLS will be deducted from the $35,264 when they decide its worth..Leather seating, 306hp V-6, Luxury Collection Pkg, and Sun roof.. The Mich dealer sold 48 CTSs so far during March..
Another sale for the Big 3, good decision, for he steered away from the Asians, his 11th Caddy and really no complaints, some years better than others, but his loyality is to Detroit..I sure he will miss the FWD in the winter, but it is only a short time of the year--drive slower or stay in..
hudson: while Corollas are still on the low end, I was unaware that the plant also made Tundras...but, aside from that plant, which is obviously unionized, does Toy have unions at any other plants???
While you make a strong point, and Toy has obviously maintained their working relationship at NUMMI, I still think that if their own plants threatened to unionize, Toy would never permit it, they would shut down and move the plant, despite the expense, leaving those workers jobless...I think NUMMI just proves that they did stick with a plant that they knew was unionized the day they walked into it, as they were partnering with GM...if not for the GM side, I think they would avoid the union like the plague...
Bob, someone in this thread provided a link to a story of a Toyota plant in Cambridge, Ontario(??) that was voting on unionization last week. No info as to the results.
I would have to say if they are that unhappy with the working conditions that they would call for a union vote, and could potentially lose their jobs to a plant in the US that's not unionized, if Toyota decided to one up them, then well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Toyota has union workers at home in Japan, but I don't know if you can really compare Japanese labor unions to the UAW.
I suspect Toyota has union experience in their other locations too though.
NUMMI is a bit unique too in that it's the only car factory in the state of California.
The Cambridge vote is off for the time being:
Machinists Call Off Toyota Union Vote in Canada. The union needs to gather more membership cards to hit the magic number of 40% of the workforce.
In other news, this op-ed piece is floating around:
Compensation per worker at insourcing companies (like Tata, now of Land Rover/Jaguar fame) was $66,042 in 2005 -- 31.8% above the average for the rest of the private sector of $50,124. Insourcing companies employed nearly 5.1 million Americans, 4.4% of the private-sector labor force in '05.
What Tata Tells Us About Insourcing and FDI
1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille four-door hardtop.
1989 Cadillac Brougham
1994 Cadillac DeVille
2002 Cadillac Seville STS
I still have the 1989 Cadillac Brougham and recently purchased a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.
A young girl at work just bought a new 2008 Dodge Charger R/T Hemi.
My error...it is the TACOMA, not the Tundra that is produced at NUMMI. I typed faster than my brain was working.
No, Toyota doesn't have any other unionized plants in North America. The UAW has tried, and failed, to unionize Georgetown.
And Toyota can't be all that bad of an employer without the union. When they announced the opening of the San Antonio plant (this one is the second of the Tundra, not Tacoma, plants), they had about 100,000 applicants for something like 3,000 jobs.
Is 160,000 "high mileage?" A cracked block at 160,000 (unless bad maintenence is involved) in a modern car is absurd. I would expect just about any modern car to top 200,000 without a major problem.
Before you all start screaming, checkout the TMV prices of used caddys. Just don't shoot the messenger.
I'd say that's a bit of a stretch, but with proper maintenance most probably could if one could tolerate all the little issues and squeaks and rattles that develop along the way. I personally don't know to many that have gone past 200k miles. My dad did get 230k w/o anything major going wrong with a '92 crown vic other than a couple of fuel pumps and starters. Granted it was pretty much shot when he got rid of it. His current 2000 Taurus is at 165k w/o any major issues. The key for him is when something starts to go wrong he gets it fixed pronto and performs all needed maintenance.
On the GM side my family just hasn't had much luck. I've got 105k on my '00 Suburban and I'm on transmission #2 and A/C compressor #2 among may other parts, not to mention trans #2 is starting to slip on occasion. My parent's inherited a '00 Park Ave that was a disaster, blown head gasket by 80k miles, bad intake manifold, my dad gave it to my sister to finish college and she finally trade the POS on a Honda a few months ago, because at 120k it spewed oil out of the rear main and nothing electrical hardly worked.
I have to disagree. If you had said that your car reached 160,000 miles thirty years ago, I think many would have been impressed. Today, a car easily reaches 100,000 miles without major problems (some companies even offer warranties to that point)...and beyond.
My numbers are based partially on my experiences with people throughout the industry and partially based on my personal car. When I bought it, it was ranked as the second LOWEST quality brand sold in the US. Now, 16 years later, the car still runs like a top and sports 160,000 miles on the clock.
I would expect a Cadillac to top 160,000 miles without a cracked block (unless the maintanence hadn't been done regularly). I would expect that same car to run relatively trouble-free past 200,000 miles. I've seen used car lots around here with Toyota Camrys with 200+K on them and various other cars with over 300k on them...all in reasonably good conditions.
I'd bet many times something expensive like a transmission will fail around 150k and the owner will dump the car for a new one tell those around them that it died. The car then sold at action cheap and the buyer throws in a new trans and the car is good for another 50-100k.
In my experience, by the time most vehicles get to the 100k-150k range they develop lots of little irritants that drive me nuts. My Suburban is getting to that point at a 105k. Rattles and electrical gremlins that nickel and dime me to death and drive me nuts at the same time. I have no doubt the 5.3 in my Suburban should go 200k plus, it's the rest of the vehicle that I have my doubts.
Yes a Northstar v8 should crack a block at 160k and most probably don't, no doubt some will.
Hey, that's OK...if you only knew how many times I write something just prior to going to sleep, only to find that I went to sleep 10 minutes ago, sat at my computer, typed what I thought was an intelligent post, and then stumbled off to bed...
I think I read in today's USA Today that the sale of Land Rover and Jag to Tata has been completed...Ford sold them for 2.3 billion $$$, much less than what they paid for them...
Didn't Mercedes pay about 35 Billion $$$ for Chrysler, only to sell it to Cerberus for 7 Billion $$$...???...if true, M-B took one heck of a bath on that one...
Been there. Done that.
Oh, yeah. Daimler took an absolute bath on Chrysler and pretty much destroyed any long term future for Chrysler while they were at it. I am still of the opinion that at one point Cerberus is just going to sell off the profitable pieces and dump it. I'm just happy that they seem to be trying to make a go of it in the meantime. I've seen the first sing here of the dealer consolidation around here. The long time Chrysler dealership is gone, apparenty to give the Jeep dealership that one.
Meanwhile, on long term cars, my 00 Accord will turn 150K this week. Worst thing I had to do was replace the tail light lens because someone hit it. There've been a couple of brake jobs but that's about it other than routine maintenance. I expect at least 200K out of it. Likely more.
Oh, I see plenty of Camries with 200K miles but none of them are in very good condition by any stretch of the imagination. A co-worker has a black 1992 Camry with 212K miles but it looks like it was in a war. The paint is shot, he can't open the left rear door. The decklid is difficult to open, and a constellation of idiot lights constantly glow on the dashboard. Another guy has a 1999 Camry and it is a rusted-out paint peeling mess. I guess they did get their money out of them, but I usually ditch a car before it looks like these examples. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue doesn't look so hot these days, but it's a concours classic compared to these two.
While we have two Hondas and a Toyota all were built here more or less. The Accord in Ohio, the Ody in Alabama and the Camry in Kentucky.
Since many of the major component suppliers are unionized with heavy burdens of debt to keep modernizing their facilities and trying to offset pricing decreases by the Big 3 purchasing depts, they just went out of business. I personally know of several cases where the supplier was told---all new contracts are to come out of .the Mexician facility--not the Ohio plant. Since the Ohio plant was unionized they were instructed to not switch current production items to Mexico for it would upset the union. Outcome --- the Ohio plant bleeds slowly, and is gone in a few years..
There is a tremendous trickle down effect and soon all parts suppliers are in foreign countries and America has no industrial base..We go to recession, then slowly head to a depression.
In our industrial base, the Asians don't count, for their monies go back home--after they pay their reduced tax rates stateside and a few employees..Our heavy industry is gone mainly due to our Government imposed rules and regulations involving pollution,health and safety, high taxation, and all the feel good laws.
Do you think the Chinese or the Mexician authorities worry about all these American standards???? Workmans Comp? Pollution? Health&Safety?? If you get hurt---BYE-BYE...Follow the tennis shoe manufacturing base..and they will be doing Auto seats next..The forging and casting industry is almost a dead deal..
How many posters on this site are driving Asian cars????? sounds like quite few..
Finally a bright spot in our dismal marketplace----The CTS Caddy is in short supply and eating up Bimmers, Audis, and M-Bs, maybe a few Asians. My son was informed that his CTS wasn't available for a least four weeks and then he found out his real estate signs wouldn't fit in the car, so he is still on the hunt..The STS is too expensive, and the DTS is too big.. Told him to go buy a loaded Impala LTZ and get on with life..He sold his cracked block 160k mi Caddy for $2000.. Should be able to get $5000 off MRSP on a new Chevy. Admittedly it is not hi-tech transportation and he will not like the car..but it will allow him some wheels to move our depressed Michigan real estate holdings..
Yes the cracked block was probably a oversight on his part, for the oil was changed every 3-4,000 miles, never could figure out how he went that long since the Northstars sucked dealership Mobil oil about a qt/1500 mi..The cast iron Chevy block should be more forgiving on maintenance..
I had a 85 Eldo-company car, inherited from the company ex-president--dumped it after two months. My wife had the Caddies-1991 Deville Touring Sedan, 1996 Sedan Deville, and a 2003 STS..Decent cars and I only drove them for service or the Mich-Fla bouts..They loved the straight open road-rock and roll, pedal to the metal. GM put a new 4.9 liter engine in the 91 Touring Sedan @59kmiles..Piston slap, replaced several pistons earlier..all free. put 150 miles on the new engine, stuck the car in our garage, bought her a 96 Sedan Deville and left for Fla.. Babied it from Detroit to Cinncinati for it's breakin period and then let her rip. Sold the 96er at about 90k miles..Sold the 91 sedan to a private party...gave it away..The STS was a short affair due to my wife's pending illness and I am not a Caddy lover, they are somewhat needy, but very comfortable..I prefer the medium size, tight suspension, and the best wheel balance job I can find, I will pay big.. Nothing like calm steering wheel at speed..
My Mustang GT isn't too far away...Old tech, but who cares...It's all American!!!!!!!!
Well, at least most the car will have the American hertiage...You Think???
Well, maybe I've owned two. In college I had a Mercury Tracer that was basically a Mazda 323 and was made in Mexico.
Wife has a '07 GrandPrix for a company car and I currently have a 2000 Suburban which also was made in Mexico and the build quality shows it.
I wonder what percentage of GM's fullsize SUVs are made in Mexico. I was looking at a 3/4 ton GMC Yukon XL that also was made south of the border.
By far most of the vehicles I've owned have been from the domestics, but unfortunately the most rewarding vehicles I've owned have been asian or german.
If the Asians are suppying 40% of the domestic sales, then how come Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and Tennesse are experiencing recessions, plant closings, and hard times.It's the "sucking sound" from Mexico,Japan, China, and Europe pulling the greenbacks out of the USofA....
My daughter's father-in-law sold his company to a Canadian auto supplier back in 1995, foreseeing slimmer growth ahead and foreign invasion. The company was 90 yrs old with plants in 10 states, Mexico and a joint venture in China..It was an excellent decision for it is easier to work with a pile of money than to try and manage a company through a mine field..During the last 10 days we golfed,broke bread, and contemplated the future..discussed the past.. My daughter lives on Venice island about 6 miles from me..Her father-in-law still lives in Michigan and does the Fla trip three times a yr, taking in the Masters Tourement on the Spring time trip..After the long winter it's important to get the golf game pre-tuned for the long summer up north..
Having been in the auto supplier business for decades and manufacturing products used in all vehicles his decision to sell was a wise one based on the knowledge of his extensive Asian and worldwide travels, that the global market was a new challenge requiring lots of capital{money} to stay in the game..
In hindsight---
Next Buick was a new 81 Riviera V-8 gone after 20k miles.Bought wife a new 87 Electra T-Type, gone after 35k miles. next one 92 Regal GS-gone after 95k miles and the last one was a 94 LeSabre gone after 110k..
The worst part of a Buick is the suspension, even the ones with the sport suspension ???? soft, long stroke, like riding in a rocking chair..Cupped tires and shimmy prone..I had new struts, Monore HD put on the 94 around 50k mi. and cured the problem. Drivetrain--no problems with any of them, A/C no problem at all.
The 3.8 engine always ran well, replaced a water pump on the Regal otherwise oil changes every 5k and filters, air filters every 25k..Lots of tires, lots of free tires from Goodyear, and Firestone. The rear tires would flat spot/cup..
Buicks suspension was not made for the high speed interstate travel .
They are good reliable everyday cars and will be better when GM installs the 3.6 V-6 w/6spd auto and firms up the suspension..
You'll have a lot less illegal immigrants flooding the borders? :surprise:
Not my favorite pick, but it's mostly American, motor is a Mexico item and car is assembled in Canada..
Not my favorite pick, but it's mostly American, motor is a Mexico item and car is assembled in Canada..
So he bought a German car built in Canada with a Mexican engine? Yup, paint that thing red white and blue all over.
OHHH, that is just wrong!!!!!!! :P :P :P
The 3.5 V-6 engine is not an ecomony champ either and a loaded V-6 Chrysler 300 is in the same price range as his Hemi..The V-6 does not have the auto-temp control feature or at least one should have that on a $37k car..
Shell Oil gas in Fla has now picked up on the 10% ethanol in the three blends and cut my mileage by 12% on the thristy SC Pontiac.
I foreclosed on high-flying developer on 2/1/08 involving 60 acres on an Interstate exchange north of Detroit, zoned commerical, can't wait to get it back..I was the high bidder at the Sheriffs sale..The developer has 180 days to redeem the land by paying me all monies owed..Deficiency judgements have also been filed..
It's a whole new world out there, just keep plenty of cash around to weather the upcoming storm..
Meanwhile, buy Big 3 car or truck to get the country rolling again..
Besides the CTS being an "hot item", the lowly Malibu 3.6 LTZ is being gobbled up at record numbers, no discounts, no rebates and no inventory..
Bright spots!!!!!!
Meanwhile, buy Big 3 car or truck to get the country rolling again..
So far, (knock on fake wood grain) I'm in good shape with my mortgage.
Unfortunately, I'm a couple years away from needing a new car. My only question is a shiny new Buick, or a Volt.
The Volt is not on my list, just another attempt to appease the Left Coast..Carbon Footprints ala Gore is an extortation racket---Mafia style..Global warning chatter has made him a rich man.
I don't want to get on the political side of this issue..There is an active volcano in Hawaii and it is spewing all the bad things into the atmosphere, maybe the lefties could shut it down or sic the enviro-whackos on it, or pass legislation outlawing volcanoes...Now that would be real power!!!!!!
Alot of people got filthy rich on the tobacco settlement/extortation...and they.. contributed a high percentage back to the left. Climate change is the next earmark..
The UAW is all but dead, nobody gets unionized during a depression, people will work to put food on the table..After the Michigan politicans realized that their sweetheart UAW was beaten at Asian transplants, they threw the Detroit Big 3 under the bus..Just follow the money, UAW was out of money and didn't have the clout for their membership has been halved, with starting wages shaved by 50% and production switched to other countries
Alternative energy does not lower the price of oil----remember the 250,000,000 autos on our highways---they love old-fashioned gas, ethanol is a pipe-dream, sun, solar, and hydrogen are decades away if ever..Lots of sweetheart contracts being issued in the name of Alternative Energy..Our tax dollars..
Go for oil...The earth is loaded with it...
OH wow, you mean when a domestic manufacturer makes a competitive product, people buy it? Thats crazy talk.
Honestly, the CTS looks pretty bada** if you ask me, although I think it is a hermaphrodite. They did all these commercials to make it look masculine and apply to men, and then they show all these women driving it around because they want to be manly.
The Malibu is a midsize family sedan. There is nothing sexy about that entire group. Pick the bloby rounded body you like from your country of origin of choice, pick your payment plan and start sucking gasoline. That said, I think it as as good an entry as anything else in the class.
I spent some time in an Aura with the 3.6 and I think it sounds fantastic when you are on the gas. Its not a car for me because I like a more interactive driving experience and GM doesn't have any manual transmissions, but for like my mom or something, great car.
Having coffee, smoking, cell phoning gets somewhat confusing/dangerous if I have to manually find the next gear, thought process is a little slow at my age..I could spill the coffee--bad stain--ruin a Ralph Lauren white polo shirt--or burn a hole in something--open sunroof gets rid of the smoke...yep I run the a/c with the sunroof open when it gets in the high 80s-100..
Visited my favorite Shell station this morning and my favorite pump returned the with a bonus..6.418 gals of prem gas =28.04mpg. Digital readout on dash showed average gas mpg to be 20.4 which is using 2 mpgs high., so I saved about $12.30, Love Big Oil!!!!
Opec says high price of crude is based on: weak US dollar compared to other currencies-namely the Euro, lack of refining capacity in the USA, and Political chaos in various govts..US Congress..
We know "Climate Change" is continuously happening and when was the last time a Caribou, Polar Bear, or Turtle did anything for your paycheck..We are now sending our tax dollars to promote their welfare, not our well-being.
Congress ranted for years on Auto safety, now they want us to drive golf carts to save the planet..Follow the MONEY----Carbon credits----GReen living----Ethanol subsidies to pollute our enviroment....
Somewhere I have read that we scrap about 7,000,000 cars/yr, build about 16,000,000/yr, and have about 250,000,000 on the road at this time..Do the math on your alternate energy to keep the fleet running and the country rolling on oil..
Maybe Toyota and Oprah can band together, distributing Priuses to anyone forced to drive a 10-15 yr gas gushling junker to save the planet..
Our American car dilemna is strictly political, our govt has just performed some big bailouts of our financial markets, however they despise our Big 3..why? no money left. The Asians are generous in their contributions to the party of the left coast.
What's coming after the Nov election will not be pretty...
Keep your job, keep paying your SS and Medicare taxes for I am enjoying that little extra money every month, after all they now say Social Security will be broke by 2012 and Medicare by 2020 or maybe visa-versa..We have a good health care system and I sure don't want to pay your health care costs via universal health care which equals no health care..Democrats can't figure out how to run their own primary elections---how could they coup with universal health care.?????
Buy a Big 3 car or truck for we are about to lose own industry that has so dearly contributed to our FREEDOM..Without freedom, we have nothing...
Ah, so that's why Toyota,Hyundai, etc. keep building their new factories in the red states of the Deep South instead of Michigan.
"In 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004, Toyota Motor Sales USA gave a respective 82 percent, 60 percent, 99 percent and 61 percent of its political contributions to Republican causes, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. That is roughly in line with the two-thirds Republican breakdown of contributions from the Big Three." boston.com
Now that the Dems are in, the contributions in the last year has shifted to them. Meanwhile I'm reminded of Will Roger's famous organized political party quote.
If times really get bad, we can just nationalize all those foreign owned auto factories on our shores, eh?
Friend bought a V-10 diesel he can't afford to drive it now, with plow on he gets 6mpg on highway.
The Dems have their hand out for anything to advance their cause..If it means killing the Big 3---so be it!!!
The right-hand helped advance the early cause for the Asians and expand the industrial base in America, and the Asians love the Left coasts stance on Warming.. The right hand loves business and the left hand casts business as mean and greedy---really a shake down for campaign funds..
.
The red southern states are close to the Mexico supply of Asian part suppliers that have been in Mexico for years..Besides our NASCAR buddies need a daytime job...
Idaho is really removed from any part of our Midwest problems..
Did I mention that the Asians stayed away from Michigan so as to avoid the UAW and upsetting their global plan..Jefferson Ave , Motown is the UAWs dwindling stance..
The left hand doesn't have to nationalize the automotive, Japan has saved them the trouble..The Asian guys have been operating under that shield since day 1..
hmmmm what truck did he buy that has a V-10 diesel? nobody offers one as far as I know
I would buy the cheapo CTS with the big V-6, FE2 suspension, leatherette interior, and sunroof..No frills...Maybe they would throw in a roadmap in lieu of nav..
I stopped buying the Deville Caddies when they changed body style in 2000..I drove several dealer loaners and noticed high noise levels w/o sunroofs option..I am sure that has been corrected over the years..
I like to stay under $ 30k on my car buying..new and under 20k on used ones..Restrictions of retirement living, since all income is from investments..Cds are in the toilet now, and I short the S&P for any gains..
We are in a recession, aren't we????