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Comments
And if shoddy dealings were criminal, we'd have a whole class of "leaders" on Wall St who'd deserve a one way visit to a gallows.
Mercedes-Benz To Invest $2 Billion in Alabama Ahead of 2014 C-Class (Inside Line)
Maybe a hedge banking on continuing worthless dollars,though.
I suppose those automakers could stick to building factories in Canada and Mexico if people don't like having them stateside. Something Ford, GM and Chrysler have done over the years.
When these companies close up shop in foreign countries that support THEIR work force, let me know. I'll be waiting....
Regards,
OW
Buy a Chinese Buick...Support GM-USA. See? :shades:
Regards,
OW
I struggle to see a big difference between buying Mexican Fusions, Canadian Camaros, or U.S. Hondas or BMWs, etc. Lots of US makes are built foreign, and lots of "foreign" makes are made in the USA. I say buy the best vehicle for your application.
Why is ti good when GM expands into Mexico but it's bad when Mercedes expands and invests in a plant in the USA???...aren't you being a little closed-minded or guilty of faulty reasoning???
And if you are a U.S. Taxpayer, you already own part of GM! And if the stock price goes up a bunch you might get closer to breaking even!
Why is GM getting all the flack?
I'm no economist, but I strongly suspect that the foreign nameplate plant in the U.S. produces much more economic value than the U.S. nameplate plant in another country. Many (most?) U.S. multinationals keep the money earned out of country in their foreign subsidiaries to avoid U.S. taxes.
Regards,
OW
Why is GM getting all the flack?
Well, it remains to be seen how things play out in the long term, but so far, I think Chrysler has made an amazing turnaround. They started cheapening their interiors back in the early '00's, but with the current crop of cars, it's like a night and day difference from just a year or two ago. They've made a vast improvement in many of their engines, as well. Plus, Chrysler is a lot smaller than GM, and has had less of that "too big to fail" arrogance in the past.
With GM, it's sort of like a sinking ship analogy. Not the Titanic, necessarily, but more like the Andrea Doria. Maybe the starboard list has stabilized and at least half of the lifeboats are working, but at this point we really don't know how it will fare in the morning after.
Don't get me wrong here once again. There is economic value to these transplants. You must weigh the economic value compared to a fully built American product or service far out ways a product or service partially built here in the U.S.
There is a much bigger picture here than cars folks. This car forum is just a piece of the big picture of the economic stability/viability of this nation.
I wonder if the amortization of fixed costs like this are reflected in the US content sticker? Probably not. I think you need to go by the US content sticker more than place of final assembly since in today's supply chain world a good part of the manufacturing content in vendor derived.
But I think it is ironic that the "American" brands are working hard to make their product anywhere but here, and it is the "imports" that seem to be bring more and more production here, which, no matter how you look at it, brings decent-paying assembly jobs and all those support businesses that build up around the import plant...
One thing unmentioned is that most of the transplants are moving to non-union, right-to-work states, unmentioned because no one wants to point out that the unionized states are the ones destroying their own jobs by mandating, thru their union-only rules, work rules, regulations, and severe overpayment of workers (no skilled, union-wage) that drives business out of the country...
If we had a national right to work law, and bankrupt companies could (and should) VOID their union contracts and pensions, then Big 3 might stay here and dump the unionized workers with a welfare entitlement mentality, start over with new workers who actually CARE (rocky excepted) about a good product instead on only the union, yada, yada, yada...
Maybe you should direct your posts to the Democrats who want to fight right-to-work, as they are throwing the jobs away, while arguing they fight for the working man, they really fight to destroy the working man's job...
I believe in right to work laws. Unions should have more competitive pressure on them. They are also advantaged versus companies in negotiations (e.g. a company can generally only lock out after contract expiration, while a union can often trump up an issue and walk out while still under contract. Unions can target a single company in an industry for leverage, but if the companies try to work together in defense its generally antitrust).). Companies and unions should be subject to simple secret ballot, majority wins just like political elections. This idea of no votes favor the union is ridiculous, a person not voting should not be counted, period.
Your interest in voiding pensions may be over the top though. The government is already struggling with Social Security and other entitlements. Such an action would overwhelm the Pension Guarantee funds.
On the flipside, I never hear those pro-GM'ers squack about the loss of jobs and revenue if Chrysler went down completely. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Only how destructive the loss of GM would be and the
millions upon millions68,500 employees would be left fighting in drug infested, warzones like Philly? and how the US will turn into some zombie land if it did. :lemon:Like it or not, one factor (among many) is that much of the work was unskilled but union demands simply made them cost too much...there are other factors, for sure, but, to use my shopworn example, floorsweepers were NEVER worth $25-35/hour, plus benefits...they are barely NOW worth minimum wage...c'mon, it's floorsweeping!!!...yes, good honest work, but for floorsweepers and bathroom cleaners to be paid the exorbitant wages demanded by the UAW or any other union is absurd...
So, who is at fault for losing the base???...I blame a good part on the workers themselves, who were too damn stupid (and still are, for the most part) to realize they were pricing themselves out of the market...
When you can make a product overseas and add the shipping costs, and STILL make it cheaper than you would here, that needs to be addressed...the days of unskilled labor controlling the market are finally going away...the UAW should have been stopped in the 80s, but they weren't...so you now have a few generations of militants who believe in their ENTITLEMENT to make $50/hour or more (includes benefits) for tightening lug nuts on a wheel.
I hesitate to add that the quality of OUR workmanship suffered severely, as imports were made better...so, we had unskilled workers who cost too much, but that might have been absorbed if the product was superior in quality, but it wasn't...oh, your cars were well made, but the millions of buyers who deserted the Big 3 did not do so at gunpoint, whether you like it or not, they found a product THEY thought was better...so, when we competed in the marketplace, we simply lost...overpaid unskilled workers who made crap, and you wonder where our industrial base went???
It is NOT patriotic to buy junk just because it was made by an American car company...while you and I argue it here as "car mavens" the average buyer just knows where the ignition key goes, and he took his money, WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION, and took it to Honda & Toyota, because HE felt that he could find a better product...and he did...
Did the UAW step up to the plate and make it better, CARING about the product and the guy who bought it...NO...he went on strike because floorsweepers were not making $50/hour...in Fremont, Calif, the UAW shut down the Nummi plant, and they lost their jobs, BUT THEY DIDN'T GIVE IN TO THE MAN...and you want to know where our industrial base went???
I'll tell you...they paid the unskilled like skilled workers, and, just like in a fairy tale, they began to believe they were entitled to it...didn't matter if they made junk, but they had the Jobs Bank to pay them for sitting on their collective unskilled a**es...
When the unskilled realize what they are worth and get paid accordingly, that might help bring back industry to the USA...but while assembly workers get overpaid simply for turning screws and sweeping floors, we will lose the base, but it is the fault of the workers themselves...they need to look in the mirror...
fintail: yeah, some of our costs ARE possibly on the low side...:):):)
"Well, there was work for us, and how could we resist? I mean, free transportation, room, board. Chains!" (Sammy Davis Junior, on All in the Family.)
All the biscuits and sausage gravy you can eat, fresh bacon, eggs from the chicken coop...think about it...
Sound like you guys are fattening up the workforce for slaughter! Either that, or it's time to invest some money in companies that make cholesterol meds...
Gas here still hovering around $3.64. I filled up the Jeep Monday, got 21 mpg. 2,008 on the clock. Gas tank is pretty large, I think it holds 24 1/2 gals.
Here's one explanation for you.
When Company A produces garbage product, and Customer A buys it, they have a terrible ownership experience, and waste a lot of disposable income keeping Car A running. when they go to sell it/get rid of it, they take a bath with extreme depreciation because by then, everyone knows cars from Company A are horrible. By customer A buying from Company B in Germany or Japan, they give Company A an incentive to improve their product to regain past lost customers, and/or they go out of business, which means were only left with competent companies in our country. Buying the competitor's product forces competition. It forces company A to learn and adjust, or die. This is good for America.
It's a great system if the government could avoid helping the incompetent failures with bailouts while hurting the good companies in the process.
Don't German cars usually finish low in reliability? Seems to me many get lots of black dots in CR and often fall low in JD Powers. Heck, it was the German ownership where Chrysler started tanking even faster. I will give you that the Germans have good suspensions and nice interiors, but someone like Audi/VW teaching reliable ,long term quality I'm not sure I'm buying that!
When I buy a product that issue is a secondary concern- if that. I buy the product that best meets my needs and budget. If it is made here, so much the better.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well, right off the bat, they are wrong wheel drive...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just out of curiosity, how do most VWs and Audis perform, compared to Benzes and BMW's? They're wrong-wheel drive for the most part as well, aren't they? Or is AWD pretty common in the Audis these days?
And because of that, I think Acura tends be be viewed as a notch below the likes of Lexus and Infiniti, both of which have a mix of FWD and RWD cars. Another thing that tends to hurt Acura is lack of a V-8, although with the way the market is trending, that might not be such a stigma for too much longer.
Subaru is the Japanese Audi, with a good AWD system as well.
Most AWD/Quattro lovers dislike WWD only equally to disliking 2WD in general. In fact, I saw once recent quattro equipped Audi with the License plate "Hate2WD."
That being said, NO ONE does FWD better than Audi or Acura. They make FWD or WWD as sporty and as superior handling as possible. You just have to know how to drive WWD differently than Wrong Number Drive RWD vehicles :P