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Oh come on, that front fender/bumper alignment was terrible. You'd really overlook that? Might explain why you buy Big 3 product.
Those pictures remind me of a TYPICAL Ford from my experience. I rented an '08 Mustang with very little miles and the gas cover sheet metal looked like it was about 1/4" off in more ways then one. I wouldn't assume it was in an accident, just typical Big 3 fit and finish.
That front bumper alignment picture you shared of the Taurus would bother me a whole lot. Funny thing is, my back bumper's been hit in my Audi, and I pointed out to the body shop that the gap with the sheet metal of the car is about 1 to 2 mm (very minimal) wider on one side than the other (and there was no gap on either side pre-accident). He said that it was unfixable as the clips and bumper fit like they fit, and go where they go. So whoever said bumper alignment is "easily fixable" I'd like to be referred to your body shop! Maybe he just felt I was being too picky.
In all my experiences with body shops (4 different times at four different shops), I've only found one that did really good work that was up to my standards, but that was on my Dodge, so maybe it's harder to notice flaws on a Big 3 car, hey, that's an advantage!
Agreed 100%. The top of the door stand out even in the pics, no need to see it in person.
You should take pictures of the Fusion to show us what good quality looks like, or better yet, your Father's Accord.
Mazda was corrupted and infected by Ford.
Not sure what Nissan's excuse is, but they are really hit or miss.
Didn't the French get involved with Nissan a few years back, and cause some problems when it came to quality?
Now that's a typical UAW type response, fit and finish issues are for the dealer to worry about, just get it out the door.
But, that's not the point. It shouldn't leave the factory like that! The Taurus is not a $12k Kia. It's Ford's top of the line car and it looks like it was slapped together with slave labor.
See, I knew those carriage roofs were good for something!
That might actually be a saving grace, too. Ford had a habit of not getting enough paint and primer down in that seam which, on those cars, thankfully was only at the C-pillar. Over time they would start to show rust. My buddy's '95 Grand Marquis GS was rusting a bit by 2004 when he traded it, and his '04 Crown Vic is showing a slight sign of rust there, as well.
$26.40/day is what they pay. That is right on average for salaries in Mexico. On par with firefighters and carpenters.
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IMO, Nissan's aren't built like they used to be. My 01 Pathfinder was built vault tight. I've looked at newer models and IMO they don't seem built nearly as well.
I will say, I like my brother's Fusion Sport better than our dad's Accord Ex-l v6. Though both are nice cars. The Fusion is just more up to date on the bells and whistles and I do prefer how it drives. Though I wish Ford's 3.5 v6 was as smooth as Honda's.
They all live several hours away, so I won't have a pic opportunity for a while. The last time my brother was here, his Fusion was parked next to the Taurus. We looked over the cars and we both shook our heads at the fact that the domestically built car was sloppily built compared to the Mexican built car.
The bad domestics always end up in my driveway and the good ones are in Lemko's;)
Agreed, I don't like that seam on the roof at all.
Thankfully, Audi didn't include one on my A3 roof (and I'm without any glass on the roof, so it's important not to have unnecessary seams/trim). Just one big solid piece of Ocean Blue Pearl painted sheetmetal.
I have a 07 Chrysler Pacifica AWD Touring. This car was made in Windsor with parts made in the US, it is quality all the way.
Look at the Korean or Japan cars, most are all made here. They look very well made, although I dont care for them. Cars made here can be very well made, it all depends on what the quality control is stressed by those in management. I am very impressed on the paint jobs being done these days. In the 50's 60's, 70's orange peel was not unique on some place on cars.
I have noticed the first Fusion we rented was cheap inside and power was not exciting, and fuel mpg was less then 20. It was black in color and the air cond. did not keep the car more than just acceptable. This was three or four years ago, and a rental car so maybe they got a really low price. I have hears the 4cyc Fusion gets much better now.
Actually, I notice orange peel more on newer cars than on older cars. I think part of it might be that the paint jobs are thicker these days, and with clearcoats, maybe it simply exaggerates the orange peel? Another possibility is that with an older car, if it's on its original paintjob, maybe the orange peel has been smoothed out over the years?
I have a midnight blue 1979 Chrysler New Yorker, and I remember one day pulilng in next to a midnight blue '06 or '07 Honda Accord, and the Accord was definitely showing more orange peel!
Absolutely;)
The Fusion went under a fairly substantial update in 2010 and is a much nicer car than the pre '10 models.
Cars made here can be very well made, it all depends on what the quality control is stressed by those in management.
I don't disagree, I'm sure some plants are better than others. I have been disappointed in the Taurus because it just went through a redesign and QC is an area Ford has supposedly improved on.
The Focus seems very good. I've read mixed views on the twin clutch auto, but the car overall seems to be top notch.
But, in the past few years, they have been getting sloppier.
Strangely enough, the last time I went to an auto show, the DC show in 2010, some of the best paint finishes were on the Chrysler products! :confuse: And I'm NOT saying that because I'm a Mopar fan...I was actually shocked at it! I have a suspicion that the cars they had on display might have been specially prepped, buffed out and smoothed, or something. Those lights they have at the convention centers are very unforgiving, and will show every little flaw, yet these Mopars were smooth as could be!
Might have? You mean for CERTAIN! Why do you think it is that other sources outside of CR seem so much more forgiving to Chrysler when it comes to anything than is Consumer Reports? CR buys their cars just like a regular customer, while those other sources perhaps get the "special one" used for review purposes only! I'm certain this happens.
You could guess the simple answer I would offer...they sent the cars out to non-UAW shops so some sembance of quality might appear...then, when you are impressed, you may not notice the real paint jobs in the showroom...
Frankly, I don't give the UAW a break on ANYTHING, since they have been the most destructive force in the USA for the last 40 years, coming right behind tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes, and floods...
Depends upon which Infiniti. The QX is made in Mississippi.
Did you know that this year more foreign-branded cars will be made in the U.S. than from the D3?
Is Your Car Made in America?
I prefer to drive a domestic car from a domestic company. But when they keep freaking breaking it makes it hard to continue throwing good money after bad.
Damn drivers side window in my Expedition is jacked up again. I paid $400 six months ago to fix it the first time. Back to shop again. It's only 4 years old, this type of BS shouldn't happen.
Unfortunately, my experience with domestics means you have to be willing to set aside thousands for repairs. So your right, that certainly is stimulative to the economy.
To tlong about the number of cars being built by foreign makes will exceed U.S. makes, I ask the question (and I truly don't know the definitive answer): Who employs the most Americans, the D3 or the foreign companies? And who utilizes the most suppliers in the U.S.? Just askin'.
Unfortunately my previous Suburban was even worse.
I just found the receipt for the repair on the power drivers side window. It was fixed in February of this year. The motor and regulator assembly were replaced costing $487. Now it's acting up again, something has come apart in the track. Quality stuff.
I suspect more are employed by the D3. But the problem is (much more so in the past than now) that the D3 are a lot less efficient. So we can complain about the foreign makes employing fewer people (if true), but no industry is going to stay competitive if they can't stay efficient. And the D3 were nowhere near efficient. Largely due to the unions and ridiculous work rules, inefficiency was almost a requirement. And we can see that in the end all that did was cause huge financial problems for the D3. The job banks were one good example. That kind of "employment" is not sustainable.
Years ago, my mechanic told me that, among domestics at least, GM had the best power windows, Ford had the worst, and Mopar was in the middle. I wonder if there's still some truth to that?
Still, for something that's only 4 years old, you shouldn't have the same part fail twice! My '85 Silverado lost its driver's side power window twice, but at least at fairly long intervals. First time was in 1991, when my grandmother still owned it after Granddad's passing. I drove it to college one day, and went out with some friends for lunch, and the sucker failed on me. I remember Grandmom getting mad at ME for it!
Second time was in late 2008. So, I guess I shouldn't fault GM for that too much. I don't think they expect people to hold onto their products for that long!
Between my two '79 New Yorkers, I currently have three dead power windows. At least Mopar made them fairly easy to replace though, and I can do it myself...when I find the ambition. I remember trying to replace the window motor on the Silverado when it failed the second time, figuring how hard can it be? Well, part of the process involved actually taking the window out of the door, removing part of the lift mechanism, and when I gave up and finally read a bit deeper into the repair manual, it said to drill a hole in some spot to release tension, to avoid the possibility of serious bodily injury. That was the point that I stopped and gave up!
With the Chryslers, you just take the interior door panels off, unplug the motor, remove three bolts, and it comes right out. No need to mess with the window, track, or the actual lift mechanism. Of course, I'm sure the newer ones are more complex.
I don't know if it's the same part or not. When it originally failed, the window stopped half way up.
Now, when it's up and press the button for it to go down, the motor is running but the window delays going down, then it drops about 4" and continues to go down. Plus it makes it's share of nasty noises.
I'll call the dealer sometime today to see when they can look at it. I have no idea how what kind of warranty the dealer offers and I certainly wouldn't be surprised that it will be something different that failed.
Years ago, my mechanic told me that, among domestics at least, GM had the best power windows, Ford had the worst, and Mopar was in the middle. I wonder if there's still some truth to that?
I wouldn't be surprised.
If that's the case, the replacement regulator only lasted 6 months:(
Damn drivers side window in my Expedition is jacked up again. I paid $400 six months ago to fix it the first time. Back to shop again. It's only 4 years old, this type of BS shouldn't happen"
That's right...that could be what drove (no pun intended) so many buyers to the imports in the last 2 decades...why can't anybody see that???...spend $400 and have to spedn it again 6 months later, and you call that quality???...is that how you see the American you support, that we make junk but we should buy it anyway???...when do the pro-union folks start jumping down the throats of the unions and ask them to make a better product, or yell at the management for using a plastic instead of a steel piece???...why not avoid it all and buy an import???...maybe we SHOULD lose a few jobs and a few companies before they wake up abd start selling us the quality the ADVERTISE...
cannon: I am totally against teacher's unions, as the quality of education has dropped in direct proportion to the rise and strength of the teachers unions...same with state and federal employees...NO PERSON WHO WORKS FOR ANY GOVT SHOULD BE ABLE TO UNIONIZE, AS THEY ARE BASICALLY ORGANIZING AGAINST THE TAXPAYERS...period...
I don't know the UAW member who built my Expedition, but I sure know my service adviser well. His name is Don and by now I should be on his Christmas list, because it seems each year I make it a merrier one:(
I will never try to dissuade you from buying a USA product. But recognize when quality is better on the other side. Might not be 50% better any more but it remains better to some extent even today as GM feverishly tries to improve despite the lingering business issues that remain intrenched in Detroit Automotive.
Regards,
OW
Gotta love the bias.
Friends had a 2000 Jetta, IIRC, and it had windows dropping down into the doors because of poor parts. Known, widely known problem.
The check engine light stayed on so much at first, the selling dealer had the car for weeks and loaned them a Villager to drive instead of their new Jetta.
So much for the perfection of the foreign cars.
Lutz very clearly described it in his book. The buyer loves the foreign car and wants to feel his car and his choice were perfect. When a windshield wiper breaks, he rationalizes it as someone just not tightening a bolt on the assembly line and the car company shouldn't be penalized with a negative report to CR for same. Who wants to admit they bought a less than perfect foreign brand car???
But when the part is on the US brand vehicle, the report goes in without prejudice.
Of course the foreign car makers had $4000 extra per car due to the improper valuing of the YEN to spend on replacing parts in hidden recalls, warranty, out-of-warranty replacements for goodwille, etc., in the past.
Go to Honda Odyssey forum here for transmissions and see how folks like their $5000 repairs on their out-of-warranty transmissions. And there are other foreign car discussions where things go wrong and the owners aren't being given freebies now; they don't like it.
Nothing has been more interesting than since about 2003 watching the main players have problems in their discussions. The complainers are usually shouted down and made to go away. Then there are the Civic forums and when someone complained about a problem, the response is that "Oh, that's a known problem," and this is in one of the "perfect" cars.
It's been interesting to watch the dynamics.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not true...foreign cars have their major screwups, too...but, it just seems like when the Big 3 get it wrong, so many cars are affected and the number of the imports just does not seem to be as large...maybe my feeble imagination, I guess...
But one must remember that Big 3 was almost all you could get here from the 50s to the 80s (British imports never really amounted to much back in the 60s and 70s, and British Leyland had more problems than we did) and, when their arrogance (you WILL buy what me make and you will like it) resulted in more and more junk being sold, it was only natural that buyers would seek the next logical alternative...
And, like it or not, that alternative was the Japanese cars...and, while they made junk in the 70s, by the mid-80s they were starting to get their act together just about the time our quality (and design) was going down the tubes...like Obama being in the right place at the right time, when a Democrat could not lose because we were tired of Bush, the Japanese cars were offering a quality car when we were getting fed up with UAW crap and the arrogance of the UAW and American carmakers...
So, it was only a matter of time before we saw Big 3 cars abandoned in great numbers for Japanese cars that seemed to satidfy many American buyers as they went back and bought their 2nd, or 3rd Japanese car...
By the time of their 3rd japanese car, once must assume they were satisfied with their purchase...now the Big 3 found themselves in quicksand, because they were advertising to a group of folks who were quite happy deserting American brands for a "better" product, and really did not car if some guy in Detroit lost his job because someone bought an Accord...
After all, how many UAW in Detroit worried about all the laid off oil workers in Texas, LA and OK when oil dropped to under $20/bbl and the American oil wells were shut down due to lack of profitability???
So, the imports still have the mystique of being better, probably because their recalls, I assume, have been fewer than Big 3...
Whatever it is, one cannot argue that the Big 3 PUSHED buyers away by their arrogance and decreasing quality over the years...the only cream puff cars made in those years were ALL bought by lemko, yes, every single one!!!...
What I see in that is simply that people were willing to shell out MORE of their hard-earned money to buy what they believed was a superior product overall, and while Big 3 had rebates galore for many years over $5K, for quite some time, Toy and Hin had end-of-year sales where the rebates were $500 or $1000...
So, if people are WILLING to pay more for something, we can only assume THEY thought they were buying a better product, reagrdless of any other point one might make...that they literally paid thousands $$$ more than buy the cheaper Big 3 product...that tells me they were REALLY fed up with American cars, whether UAW poor quality or management bad design, but to spend more money on an "equivalent" product does tell us soemthing about the American car buyer...they were avoiding Big 3 products like the plague, and they bought the alternative for a reason...
Maybe it was just something as simple as what impressed me sitting in my first 1985 Prelude...the dash seemed so ergonomic, every switch was in the right place, the gauges were easy to read, and when the salesman closed the door I felt like I was closed into a vault...at that moment, I felt I was sitting in a car made well, and when I left the dealer and got back in my 83 Grand Marquis, the door rattled as I closed it and, like it or not, that Honda felt like somebody took the time to design a car that fit ME, the most important car buyer I know...now multiply that by millions of buyers, who went on to buy their 2nd and 3rd import, and you have an inkling why our auto industry simply "did not get it" and neither did the UAW...something that exists to this day, I would bet, simply by that UAW woman quoted at the closing of the NUMMI Fremont plant, "At least we didn't give in to the Man"...
The attitude she exhibits is probably the same for ALL of them, so now you know whay I have zero respect for the unskilled workers that make up the UAW...they are simply idiots...'nuff said... :shades:
Yeah they were expensive back than, but they were great cars and probably not for everyone. A friend in college had a late 80's Prelude SI. I thought it was awesome (I always asked him to let me drive it). GM certainly didn't have any type of fwd car that competed with it. Sweet revving 4cyl, a light clutch, and a accurate shift linkage was a foreign idea to the D3 back then. Sure, I wouldn't want to ride in the back seat, but that goes for most sporty type coupes.