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What amazes me is that we can pay the poor for everything, we can socialize health care, we can invade and police all sorts of conflicts all over the world, we can denounce science and evolution and global warming regardless of any evidence shown -- yet we have no energy policy (which arguably is more important to our security than those banana republics), we have no strategy on technology development or how to retain certain technological capabilities.
It takes guts to lead.
Regards,
OW
I would change that to read:
What amazes me is that we can pay the RICH for everything, cut taxes, lower capital gains, corporate welfare, bailout the biggest and richest companies with overpaid CEO's, ensure bonuses are kept ridiculously high for the wealthy by bailing out those companies multiple times, steal from taxpayers and choose winners in industry that are related to me or benefit me someway as a politician.
Oh yeah, and more bailouts to the most poorly ran businesses so the rich can stay in power and continue on with the status quo.
Basically the middle and upper-middle class are being bent over to support the bottom 48% and the top 1%.
Oh, OK... you goaded me into it:
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Think, GM, Ford and Chrysler! Reduce prices or reduce jobs??
Think!
Regards,
OW
New Toyota Camry
Kia is making my car in the USA now. That's called buying American. Like it or not. Just like Honda, Toyota, who build 'em here...This is NOW.
Then, even building them off shore tore GM a NEW ONE as they forgot to make good cars and even their trucks were not top quality 'cause the competition did not build trucks at the time, they had a captured market. Now, GM scrambles to compete. Had to import the good cars! HA! Except your Malibu, of course!
GM is a long way from healthy. Still on live support. UAW will keep profits in check. Stock at $22 shows investors are staying far, far away. Lost a boatload of customers and hard to get 'em back.
Regards,
OW
Remember, sme of the pro-union types still think floorsweeping is classified as "skilled labor"...
The UAW goes on strikes and continues to demand more from hurting car companies. They have work rules that tremendously limit the flexibility of the U.S. manufacturing plants. As a results the U.S. makers are putting more and more manufacturing offshore, including Ford's most automated plant in Brazil.
THINK PEOPLE...
Until there's a natural disaster in one of their home countries, as with the awful tsunami, and then we saw even U.S. production of Japanese makes dwindle. Why?
Also, recall when Toyota had its recall issues last year, and the President of North American Toyota looked like a complete deer-in-the-headlights when asked about recall decisions. It was crystal-clear to anyone who wanted to admit it, that big decisions were still being made by those working and living in Japan.
Because some components are still made in Japan. But it also affected almost every automaker around the world.
To show how global the auto industry is: Ford had to stop selling Tuxedo Black Explorers made in Chicago due to damage to a Japanese pigment plant owned by Merck Chemical of Germany.
We saw production slowed/halted on a lot of U.S. makes, too.
Nearly all cars have Japanese parts and components in them. All cars assembled in this country also have U.S. parts and components in them.
Also, recall when Toyota had its recall issues last year, and the President of North American Toyota looked like a complete deer-in-the-headlights when asked about recall decisions. It was crystal-clear to anyone who wanted to admit it, that big decisions were still being made by those working and living in Japan.
Yup, Toyota really screwed up.
For any global company, the biggest decisions are carried out at corporate HQ.
Not only is it hard, it is nearly impossible because other companies don't peddle crap like the Big 3 did.
That being said, they could get customers back by adding 9XX9 BILLION to the bailout, to fund a REFUND to all customers who were sold some lemon in the past by the big 3 :lemon: .
Lost opportunity cost, interest, time-use of the money would be discounted for the
pleasureuse of the car, albeit an unsatisfactory use and experience. A simple refund of the price paid in 1994 would be given to all customers (or whatever your year(s) are) would be paid back to the customers in full in 2011. Heck, even a purchase price "credit" towards a future purchase would be acceptable to me (as long as I was still able to negotiate my price first, and tell them about the credit later) so as to not alter the negotiation for a good price.Now that would be a bail out worth doing, as it would win back customers like me! At least for ONE more vehicle.
It was all part of the GM strategy of the early 00's, thought up by the best brains who earned tens of millions of dollars. They certainly earned their money as those of us in these boards couldn't be so smart:
1 - Cars don't matter, people buy trucks and SUVs
2 - Hybrids are a joke (Lutz)
3 - Gas prices won't ever go up enough to threaten sales of our most profitable vehicles
4 - The economy will always keep growing, so our financial future is assured
5 - Ooooh! Chrysler has the PT Cruiser and it's been successful, let's try the HHR to copy the idea
6 - Ooooh! Ford has the new Mustang and it's been successful, let's resurrect the Camaro to copy the idea
7 - Let's keep advertising based upon patriotism to keep our sales up
8 - Let's keep making tons of cheap vehicles for fleets to keep our sales up
I know a lot of people like to say "but the profits go to Japan, Germany, Korea, or whatever" But is that really so important? Once you factor in every single component of an automobile, what percentage would be profit, anyway? Heck, in General Motors' case, for a few years, "profit" would actually ding them, since they were losing money!
If a car is majority-sourced in the US, I'd imagine that most of the money stays in the US, regardless of where the final profit goes. About the biggest difference is that it makes some German, Japanese, or Korean big-wigs richer instead of some American big-wigs who probably don't give a damn about the working man anyway.
Profits are way less than 10% of the MSRP, so not many profits going out of the country. And only when the parent company is profitable.
Fact is, most of the money stays to support the United States economy.
It's not laziness, it's business. Diversify your manufacturing so that you have the flexibility to migrate more to any location. Political problems, taxation changes, natural disasters, labor issues - flexibility is a good thing.
GM makes a bunch of stuff in Mexico, too - not to mention China.
"It's business", however, is a driving force behind an endless amount of problems we face today.
I got out of Toyota stock just as that unintended acceleration was hitting the fan. I knew it was going to hurt them, so I got out while I was still at a profit. I had planned on buying back in when the price dropped enough, but got distracted and bought Apple or Google or something like that when it was on a dip, and ended up making out better.
My brother's '10 Fusion has much better fit and finish than my wife's US built '11 Taurus.
I've had 3 vehicles built in Mexico, 2 were good (Mecury Tracer, VW Jetta) and one was bad (suburban).
I have no doubt at all that great products come out of Mexico. I just hate it as a business decision--sleazy.
GM does build some (not all) trucks there. I'm not aware of any GM cars built there.
History repeats itself.
Regards,
OW
Not at all. I have many union friends and family. I don't always agree with union rules/tactics etc (many companies don't conduct themselves well either).
I'll try to post some pictures of my wife's taurus (though I'm guessing it will hard to show with a pic). The panel gaps/trim gaps are noticeably inconsistent. The doors don't line up right etc. I'm a Ford fan, so I'm certainly not biased against Ford. I don't know if it has anything to do with the workers or where it's built. I simply noticed the difference between the Taurus and Fusion the last time my brother visited. The panel alignment was far more consistent on his Fusion to the point it rivals my dad's Accord.
I mean, anymore, don't they design the cars so that fit-and-finish is almost a non-issue these days?
I'm sure they do, but that doesn't mean they get built that way. I notice gap inconsistencies on various makes from time to time, so it still happens. My wife's GP looked like it could use braces it was so bad. The Taurus isn't much better, but the way the car is designed makes these issues stand out even more.
LOL, maybe the teamster who delivered it drove it off the transport trailer sans ramp;)
My wife picked it up with less than 15 miles on it. I noticed most of the issues while she was signing the papers. If it would have been our money, it would have never left the lot.
Please report to your nearest mental health department.
I was intrigued by getting a 5-speed 4-cyl. HHR before I bought my Cobalt, but the made in Mexico thing is the sole thing that kept me from doing it. Why reward them for building in Mexico? Especially when the chassis is Cobalt. Had they built it alongside the Cobalt at Lordstown, I wouldn't have had a second thought about it.
No, it doesn't cause any issues with the car itself. But a Taurus can easily be loaded up to $40k, maybe I'm just particular, but I appreciate tight and uniform panel gaps and to me it's a sign of quality or the lack thereof.
That's pretty much how I am. I remember several years ago when my grandpa bought his new Park Ave. I walked around and noticed 4 or 5 significant panel alignment and other fit-n-finish issues. His response to me was "you can find something wrong with anything." Well, I guess I can.
Life would be so much simpler if I didn't notice these things. I would drive GM and Ford products and simply be satisfied and I'd wonder what the is wrong with anyone who aspires to own anything else.
Like you mentioned Fin, the inconsistency really drives me nuts. I mentioned taking it back to the dealer over these issues and my wife looked at like I was nuts. She said, "it runs doesn't it?" (she's the ideal D3 customer;) In reality, it would be a major hassle for her not to have a car for a day or two, so we'll just live with it:(
To a degree that's true...look hard enough and you'll spot flaws in just about anything, no matter how well it's put together. However, there's a big difference between going over something with a fine-toothed comb to find a flaw, and seeing something so glaringly obvious that it makes you flinch!
If you take a car back to the dealer because of fit and finish issues, will they actually fix it? Or would you have to really complain and raise a ruckus? I could see the dealer trying to back out, unless it was something really severe, such as a door that couldn't close, was leaking, or rubbing paint off, etc.
No, it's the front bumper that's off a bit and a plastic panel that is in front of the rear wheel and is separate from the rear bumper. Plus the alignment issues aren't on the same sides of the car. It's random from front to back and side to side.
All but one of the pics I posted are from the passenger side. The plastic piece in front of the rear tire is from the drivers side.
The paint looks okay, so I haven't noticed any paint issues. It's possible it's been wrecked, a fleet sale would be the perfect place to dump it.
In my dealings with Ford on other issues, I'd expect them to look at me like I had 3 eyes.
Sometimes the fix is worse than the original problem When I bought my '98 SVT Contour new, the panel over the air bag was misaligned. The dealer said the only way to repair it was to replace it. They ordered a new panel and the color of the replacement didn't exactly match the color of the rest of the dash. It was slightly darker, but even more noticeable than the original misalignment.
So with my luck, having them attempt to fix the problems would probably lead to something worse;)
Please report to your nearest mental health department.
I will if the GM, Ford and Chrysler management report first. And then, only after UAW management!
Why do you think the jobs go off shore??????????
Ain't 'cause I said so!
Regards,
OW
Skilled labor, my a**...
I would hope not. OTOH, I have a BIL that's in sales for a tool and die supplier to the D3 and the transplants from Toy/hon/nissan. He still claims that Toy/Honda demand tighter tolerances with the tooling and dies he supplies them vs the D3. If that's the case I'd expect more variation with a Ford or Chevy.