By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Actually, the State of California taxes my Honda and Audi exactly at the same rate they would have a Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler piece of garbage.
So the taxes paid are the same in regards to all the fees, sales taxes, DMW costs, registration, licensing, and such.
Yeah, those taxes are going to be the same, but I think cannon3 was referring to other tax dollars that are still leaving the country. For instance, the workers who put that Subaru together are paying income tax to their home country, whereas if they were US workers, they'd be paying income tax to the US, plus their home state.
And, any profit the manufacturer (rather than the dealer) made on that car went to a foreign manufacturer, rather than a domestic (who might figure out how to pull a GE stunt and not pay any US taxes on it, anyway :P )
In the end though, my attitude is buy what you like. Personally, I'd prefer to buy a car that's made in the United States, with as much US content as possible. But, if I found a car that I really loved that was made in Japan, Korea, Mexico, or whatever, I wouldn't pass it up to buy something that I didn't like simply because it was made in the US.
Regarding taxes on profits from the manufacturer, you first must MAKE A PROFIT in order for there to be any taxing on profits. For the Big 3, often there was no profit to tax lately.
The problem is the speed at which China has surged as an exporter, overwhelming the normal process of adaptation."
Right now it's stuff like toys and computers. Tomorrow will it be cars?
Tallying the Toll of U.S.-China Trade (WSJ)
Cheap goods made to satiate the consumeristic sheeple are a "help"?
They can simply steal the IP needed for toys and computers - nobody will dare stop them in light of the short term riches a few are unjustly accumulating, their bizarre joint venture agreements our idiotic shortsighted corporate elite sign will eventually let them make some kind of passable car.
Creates competition for US companies to remain competitive
How? unfair competition with the tax breaks given to them both by their home land governments and then the state/city governments here in the U.S? This benefits Americans how?
Does a lot for the manufacturing staff where the product is made (they are SOMEONE)
Low paying menial assembly labor. Most managers/engineers are from the country of origin. Yep, this is the way you want it huh? Americans as labor only.
Promotes economic interdependence. Countries that are interdependent go to war with each other less often.
How does this help our own??? For me I am sick and tired of playing policeman of the world with our sons and daughters, not to include our MONEY!
Foreign car dealer employs staff, mechanics, pays bills, uses utilities, buys supplies locally, generally stimulates the economy
What?? your kidding right with the "supplies locally"? what cups? Employ staff, have you ever talked to a sales person and see how they are paid?
Foreign cars are promoted using US advertising on radio, TV, newspapers
Advertising?? your reaching now for anything. You pay someone one time to make a commercial/or ad. This is once again SHORT TERM Thinking.
Don't forget that foreign makes produce more cars in the US than the D3 do
There is a HUGE difference between MAKE and ASSEMBLE. Once again a short term thinker.
Cannon, in a perfect world I would agree with you...but your blind faith to American products, while admirable, is IMO, one sided...
If buying American meant buying the best products the world has ever seen, you would be 100% right...
But, from what I have observed, groups like the UAW have deceived you and they have not held up THEIR end of the bargain, which is to PROVIDE us with the best products the world has ever seen, because they haven't, and you blindly expect us to buy their products when they allowed, no FORCED, quality to deteriorate over the years...
Yes, I am digging into the past, but the past is what got us here, and you seem to refuse to acknowledge that...
I can only assume that you must be VERY wealthy, since you advocate that we buy products that fall apart, and maybe YOU have the money to buy a new car every year, so, rather than deal with a shoddy product, you just trade it in every 9-12 months...
Most of us, when we get burned on a new car, are SERIOUSLY injured financially when we have to trade it in on another car and take the loss in value, usually by rolling over the negative equity into the next loan, because most of us cannot just write a check for the loss in value, but, apparently you can...
As I have stated previously, Big 3 cars started becoming quite poorly made in the late 70s to early 80s, admittedly about 25-30 years or so ago...a long time, I will admit...
In the 70s, there was no other alternative, so we just complained to each other while the UAW arrogantly did not care one whit, because the quality of their workmanship continued to slide into the 80s...
And they continued to laugh at us, buying their junk, because they simply did not care...but, looming over the horizon was an armada of incoming cars that were made FAR BETTER then anything out of the UAW...they were blindsided by the quality of the Japanese imports, but, in the 80s, the imports were not much of a factor, but they set up beachheads here and began to sell a better product...
The UAW, rather than see this as a sign to get their act together and actually MAKE a superior product, they pulled the old one-two on us and you fell for it back then...they advertised that "your neighbor's job depends on Buying American" but they did NOTHING to change their ways of producing junk...they still showed up drunk on Friday and hung over on Monday, and they still left out parts and hung doors and hoods crooked, but they ADVERTISED that their product was better...it wasn't...
They continued this crap of making boat anchor trash into the 90s, which, for most of us who have bought new cars, is almost "recent" history...again we were bamboozled into thinking they cared about their product and cared about us, the customers...WE WERE WRONG THEN AND YOU ARE WRONG NOW...they cared about their benefits with an attitude that we owe it to them simply because they live and
drink liquorbreathe...Millions of us started buying Japanese cars in the 80s and 90s and apparently found them to be MUCH better, and well worth our money, because we bought more of them and recommended to our kids to buy an import as it was a better car, and we do not have the money to throw away on junk cars the way you seem to be able to do, cannon...
So, here we are, 2011, and, THANKS TO A SUPERIOR COMPETING PRODUCT from the Japanese, our cars are MUCH better...the UAW is 1/3 the size it used to be (give us more time and we will destroy it, one can only hope)...but we come back to my original thought...all those folks burned badly by multiple UAW cars in the last 20-30 years are reluctant to return to the UAW, the boys who cried wolf...they advertised quality all those years but didn;t deliver the quality...
So, cannon, tell me...after you have lost many THOUSANDS of dollars on American cars that were lemons, junk, rattle traps, and just poorly made, and you were happy with your imports, tell me why those burned buyers, who don't have the money you apparently do to gamble on getting ANOTHER lemon, why should they buy American ever again???
Burn me once, shame on me, burn me twice (or 3,4,5 times) shame on you...tell me why ANYONE should trust a product from a company that has promised them quality cars for YEARS, yet burned them over all those years...why should ANYONE trust those carmakers who have screwed them royally for over 30 years???
Tell me why...
Better yet, tell me why you aren't screaming at American carmakers for the last 25 years to MAKE a car that we can be proud of, instead of making excuses for the junk they sold us for decades???...why don't you tell them to make their cars SO enticing that I would never THINK of walking into a Japanese showroom...why do you complain to us buyers, when you ought to be complaining to the UAW to make a better product???...has that EVER crossed your mind???
Rant over...:):):)
I was well into the mid-90s when I fell for the let's try to save a job nonsense and ended up in the dreaded Winstall that cost close to as much in repair as it did for purchase and never did make the 90K mark. I was routinely getting well beyond 150K in Hondas and Nissans at that point.
I learned.
Just being American is not enough...we want superior products and we will buy the outsider if it is better...
Cannon, want to save American industry???...tell them to drop union work rules, pay janitors what they are worth (not $35/hour plus benefits), and make a product so good that I would never consider looking anywhere else...you will draw more flies with honey than with vinegar, and the UAW has made vinegar for the last 30-plus years...
And you will be the SAVIOR of American industry...just for the record, you might save the textile industry if you get shirt folders to understand that folding a shirt is also not worth $25 and hour...
I've never owned an imported brand before, but I pretty much got over the rah-rah-detroit stuff back in the early 90's. In fact, I recommended a '94 Civic to some friends of mine. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a pretty bad car for them.
I mainly bought big, old used cars though, so nothing Japanese was even on my radar. When I bought my 2000 Intrepid, the Japanese didn't make anything big enough for my tastes and comfort. The Accord, Camry, and Altima all felt like tiny little things to me.
This time around though, I'd consider something like an Altima or Accord, although I like the Fusion, too. Gotta confess though, yesterday at Carlisle I saw a REALLY nice 28,000 mile LeSabre coupe with a Buick 350 that really caught my eye. :shades: But, I'm really trying to get out of the 70's. Something ilke that would make a nice fair weather toy, but as a daily driver that would have to endure the elements, it just wouldn't stay looking as nice as it is for long. Plus, while that Buick 350 might be a bit more economical than the Pontiac 350 in my LeMans or the Mopar 360's in my New Yorkers, it's hardly an economy car!
Speaking of auto production workers, the absolute worst vehicle assembly quality I experienced over the past ten years was a Honda Odyssey. Although it didn't have the major reliability and repair problems of the Windstar, it had horrible assembly workmanship like numerous rattles and fit issues, improperly installed sliding door, improperly installed windshield and trim, etc.. It took multiple trips to the dealer to get it all straightened out. And you know what Marsh, it was assembled in Alabama and there ain't no UAW there.
Well, being far from wealthy, my '99 Ultra is purring like a kitten, as is the 2010 Lacrosse. My SIL's 2001 Kia, on the other hand, leaked oil out both ends and had to be JUNKED as it was rotted out. Over the last 5 yrs, OUR auto industry has made great strides in quality.
Nevertheless, over the last 25 years we have spent far too much brainpower and energy in this country trying to make money off of money, instead of goods and services.
But I do draw my conclusions from this...the import share of the market has steadily grown over the last 25 years and that market share was taken from the Big 3 and UAW products...nobody held a gun to their heads, these folks bought imports because something was lacking from the Big 3 product...whether they deserted the Big 3 due to poor UAW workmanship, extra parts in the doors, hoods that would not close, windows that just fell into the doors, or poor styling, they walked into import showrooms looking for something that the Big 3 were not providing...
I generally place more blame on the UAW because if a car looks ugly, you won't even test drive or or certainly won't buy it, so that part was under the designer's control...if, after you bought it, you notice the doors squeak, the windows fall, the dash knobs fall off, or the dashboard is mounted crooked, that comes down the the assembly workers...when you buy the car and it falls apart I would look toward the folks who physically built it...
So, I think the blame lies more with the union workers altho management is certainly not blameless...
My four Hondas were FLAWLESS...lemko's Caddys also appear to be flawless...lemko was lucky...:):):)
First off, I am in no way a union supporter. I don't support any type of unions, state, city, federal, you name it. Unions are only good for those in them. The rest of us pay the price.
I realize this is a car forum. But these economic issues go deep folks. If you can THINK about how you spend your money and have a conscience of how it affects the future of this nation, your fellow American, your future. Then maybe we may be able to pull out of this economic downturn.
As I scan through these posts I notice a lot of rhetoric about how unreliable cars are made from Ford or GM. What rock have you been living under?? Have you not read about all the Honda/Toyota recalls of last 2 years? How Toyota tried to actually buy off people to not report incidents??
Remember that ANY story of one car from ANY maker is just anecdotal. Every make has issues at times. What Bob was saying is that in aggregate, people defected for a reason. And that would be better perceived value from the imports.
I'd also say that recalls are NOT equal to reliability. My Acura's only recall was for the external temp sensor logic, and was done under warranty. Lots of recalls occur where nothing actually goes wrong.
As I scan through these posts I notice a lot of rhetoric about how unreliable cars are made from Ford or GM. What rock have you been living under?? Have you not read about all the Honda/Toyota recalls of last 2 years? How Toyota tried to actually buy off people to not report incidents??"
Yes, I do realize the economics...but, for the many thousands of dollars a car costs, if our people don;t make a quality product, I cannot see blindly giving them our money for an inferior product just because they are American...they still have to earn our business, but in your mind, they apparently do not...we should make the BEST that money can buy, so we will beat the doors down for an American product...that has not happened in the last 30 years, altho maybe things are changing now...
Maybe you have money to waste on junk, but I do not...Americans should be proud to make the best, and no one can say "UAW" and "BEST PRODUCT" in the same sentence...that is the real shame...
I am also assuming that the import problems you described above must not amount to too many people, because that SHOULD send them back to the Big 3 in droves, but it has not...why is that???
There is a lag time for opinions about cars to change. People hold to the old oral reputations of some cars and buy their car , now, based on the history of the car. To wit the people blindly purchasing the toyotas with their runaway problems (since 2002) and the Hondas with bad transmissions and AC units.
Just as it takes time for people to figure out the "old" reputation is gone, the "new" reputations take time to build up as people buy, have a good experience and pass that on.
It's the same with attorney's reputations. E.g., the notorious class action lawyer who has made much money in suits, has been caught in KY.
"Stan Chesley is named in a lawsuit related to the settlement of fen-phen litigation in Kentucky. Former clients have sued Chesley and three other plaintiffs' attorneys for allegedly breaching their duties by diverting most of a $200 million settlement fund to themselves with only one third to the plaintiffs.[4] Judge Joseph F. Bamberger approved the settlement, but resigned when it was revealed that he was paid $5000 a month as a director of a charitable entity funded by the settlement and directed by the attorneys.[4][5] Chesley, who collected a $20.5 million fee for negotiating the settlement, maintains that he was not co-counsel for the plaintiffs and was not aware that the attorneys were deceiving their clients and that he therefore owes no duty to the 440 plaintiffs[2] On February 22, 2011, Kentucky trial commissioner William L. Graham issued an order recommending Chesley be disbarred for his actions."
--from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_M._Chesley
But it will be a while before the reality of that behavior pattern on the part of attorneys becomes settled into people's minds about suits and class action suits. People will eventually realize class action attorneys aren't about making money for their clients.
Just as with an attorney, people learn slowly about cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BTW, I am always glad when dirty laundry is aired...most attorneys cringe when articles like that hit the media, but I welcome it...I want the bad ones to be exposed and caught...
Remember, not all priests are pedophiles, but some of them are...there is bad in every group...
But, about cars, keep in mind that it took over 20 years for the Big 3 to lose their market share and simultaneously for the imports to build their reputation...as long as the imports do not get as bad as the Big 3 were, they may not lose all they have built up over the years, whereas I believe that the Big 3 and UAW just ignored millions of warning signs over the last few decades, and just kept fiddling while Rome burned because they thought that bankruptcy was just "impossible"...they now know different...and they may NEVER bring back all those who deserted them and were fed up with American junk...we're not talking about a few bad apples here, like lawyers or priests, we are talking about MILLIONS of lost cars sales lost to the imports that may NEVER come back to an American car, esp if they were burned with lemons multiple times...
And there aren't enough lemkos to make up that difference...plus, if lemko keeps those cars, then even lemko won't keep the Big 3 alive except by posting here...
I can answer that.
The problem is that the problems people have with imports simply pale in comparsion when you put it in perspective with the problems they had with their domestic product. You can take the import problems, magnify them, blow them up, times them by 10 and they still are a speck on the inconvienience scale compared to the ownership experience of a big 3 product. Was my 2003 Accord perfect? No, far from it. Was it LIGHT YEARS better than the big 3 product I had, yes!
...liking the new SE V6 more and more...
At Honda, from the moment of sale not only does the sales staff reinforce the great purchase decision due to the tremendously high quality of your new Honda, but so does the Service department. They do a good job of cementing the sale by pointing out how reliable your new Honda will be; that you made a wise choice.
Now if and when you have to ever return during warranty, the attitude is that of SURPRISE that you had to come back, embarrassment (dare I say) that something went wrong, and a general desire to fix your problem with as little hassle and inconvenience as possible.
While I heard this from a Service manager at a Dodge dealership "Cars break, parts just break down." I would never in a million years expect someone at a Honda dealership to utter those words when explaining why so many repeated multiple visits were required to keep the car running.
Anyway, my MIL has over 150k on her Camry with a wheel hub at 140k being the only failure. Impressive even if I really don't care for the car. My FIL being a retired iron worker was satisfied that the Camry was assembled in the US even if it wasn't by UAW members.
Poor design and rotten workmanship over 2-3 decades drove American buyers to the competition...while I sympathize with the desires of cannon3 in a perfect world, Americans should NOT buy inferior products, esp when they cost as much as a car...
cannon, you need to write letters to get published in UAW News, or whatever goes to the autoworkers, and tell THEM to shape up and made a superior product, or they will make themselves extinct by making cars no right-minded person wants to buy, lemko excepted...
That is my opposing view to cannon's, that we are employing Americans even tho the product is say, Kia, Honda or Toyota, because they make so much of their product here, plus the usual support businesses that grow up to serve those "foreign" plants here...the cleaners, the restaurants, the parts suppliers, the hardware stores, etc that grow up with 20 miles where an "import" plant is built, that creates jobs for Americans...
It also builds up American manufacturing, and if you own stock in said "import company" you might earn dividends and capital gains, just as if you owned Ford...
And the imports have no UAW, which is Factor #1 in quality control, if you catch my drift... :shades:
The constant comments on bailout of GM also is curious. Someone please explain to me then why it was ok for Toyota to be bailed out? and not GM?
All this talk about quality this and that. Some of you really need to get caught up on the latest news and see how very close quality/reliability has come across the board from ALL brands. Toyota/Honda no longer rule this realm. I have owned Ford products that have lasted me 100,000 - 120,000 with no issues. Oil changes and normal maintenance along the way. PLUS the vehicles were less costly at purchase!
I don't like unions, ANY type of union. I was speaking to friend who is an electrician. In a union of course, he knows how I feel about unions but we are able to remain good friends and joke about it. He doesn't like the union he is forced to belong to. It takes wages he EARNS. So, not everyone who works for a union wants to be in one.
You and I must have different defintions of "bailout". To me that means money is thrown at a company that has FAILED. I don't recall Toyota failing. Perhaps they got a loan instead. Please tell us more about the Toyota BAILOUT!
What I am seeing on quality and reliability is that GM still TRAILS the imports (and Ford).
Too old to shift gears anymore..and the acceleration factor isn't my bag..Handling and braking take the spotlight..The V-6 is not my first choice, but if it can be outfitted as requested then the top speed becomes the next issue, but that can be handled with a few more bucks..
Buy a Big3 car, you will feel better..I owned 51 of them, some were better than others..If it doesn't work right, then have them buy it back..Try that trick with the Asians...
Don't we all have enough foreign-branded products in our households????
Buy a reliable car and you won't need to buy 51 of them... most of us can't afford 51 cars in their lifetimes.... I've had FIVE cars over 38 years.... try that trick with US makes...
If you support American workers, then I assume that includes the ones that work in factories owned by foreign companies that employs American workers...
I, too, believe we should support our own, but I do call for realism in that statement...if an American drill costs $125 and an import drill costs $105, buy American...but if the import costs $75, and the quality is equal (I realize that alone may be a big difference, one's definition of quality) than it is difficult to spend almost twice as much for an American product...
Remember, another American trait is to seek value for one's money...if I use a drill every week, I may want the more expensive American drill if the quality if better...if I use a drill once a year, then the cheaper drill, even if cheaper quality, may be the wise choice...sometimes buying professional quality is simply more than I need, and a cheaper import will save me money...
I think you are saying that is the cheaper import drill was $75 and the American (overpaid union?) made was $300, you would expect me to spend the $300 just because it is made here...maybe the American brand simply charges too much and "supporting" a product that is severely overpriced is not "patriotic" it is foolish...
When comparable, I try to buy American, but to pay 2-3X as much, or more, just because my neighbor made it is silly...maybe my neighbor needs a reality check in terms of pricing his product, but he won;t if folks like you just line up to pay any exorbitant price just because it is American...
And, like someone stated earlier...if a GM product has 50% domestic content, and assembled in Mexico, and the Honda has 75% domestic content and assembled in Ohio, we are supporting more Americans buying the Honda than the GM...
Andm don't forget...while people moan about the "de-industrialization" of America, every time Honda or Kia open a plant, they are the ones RE-INDUSTRIALIZING America, with new plants, new jobs, and the surrounding businesses that support the plant...
Just because GM does not own the plant does not mean we have lost an industry...
That's funny. My Chevy salesperson said to go next door to the Toyota dealer's Service Department and note that they are full-up with Toyota work there. No kidding. This was in 2008.
Those stores with the "perfect" cars were full up last year replacing gas pedals and floor mats as alleged fixes for the runaway problem. Guess karma caught up with them. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But when it somes to paintbrushes, I usually paint something about once every 5 years...so, a cheap, one-use brush that I can throw away and not bother to clean is exactly what I want and need...so, I will buy the one dollar brush and throw it away instead of the professional $10 brush right next to it...same with the paint tray, I buy a one-use cheap plastic for $2 instead of the stainless steel model next to it for $15...
Why do you have a problem with that...or, said another way, why would you, or cannon, force me to buy the American-made professional brush and stainless steel paint tray, spending $25 instead of the $3 which bought me exactly what I NEED...sometimes cheap is the way to go...now, if I was a painter, or I painted something once a week, I would want better stuff, but why do you (and, I assume, cannon) want to force me to buy professional stuff when it is the disposable stuff that I need???
Please tell us again who has called Toyota "perfect" other than you... :P
...so many posters when the unsolved unintended acceleration problems were occuring claiming they just had to be driver error--couldn't be hardware, computer, etc., because the cars were not failure prone. They were so reliable.
Even more interesting than the trailing belief of higher than normal reliability are some facts about what cars are more American. The highly touted toyota Georgetown plant...
"the details behind the Georgetown, Kentucky plant where the Camry is built? Did Cars.com or TheCarConnection.com account for the following facts?
1. The Toyota plant built in Georgetown, Kentucky in 1987 was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company.
2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land.
3. A “special trade zone” was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan.
4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan.
5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.
Now I know that $100 million sounds rather frugal compared to the record $577 million (that’s over half a billion dollars) set by Volkswagen for their first American plant built in Tennessee this year, but we are talking about 1987 when $100 billion was a much bigger sum than it is today.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Case in point is the Toyota Camry itself. You know, the one that seems to have won the “most American vehicle” award we’ve been talking about?
For three years running, Cars.com has ranked it number one in its American-made index. And to add insult to injury, the Camry will debut as the Daytona 500 pace car next year.
But despite all these lavish American awards and distinctions, Toyota isn’t ready to fully design and develop the car in the United States because Toyota doesn’t “have the guarantee that there is the existence of the facility or the know-how in the United States," according to Camry chief engineer Yukihiro Okane.
Excuse me? The Big Three American automakers routinely spend $16 billion annually in the U.S. on research and development alone, and Toyota execs aren’t sure American engineers have “the know-how” to do these same tasks for their company’s supposed “American” vehicles?
When Camry chief engineer Yukihiro Okane was asked if U.S. engineers took part in developing the 2012 Camry, he stared at the ceiling while coming up with a face-saving answer, and eventually said that American engineers helped with color design and local road condition testing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually, I know someone who probably did that, or at least came close...the people I bought my '57 DeSoto from. They bought it used in 1959 from a Pontiac dealer. Then, in 1966, they bought a used '64 Catalina, holding onto the DeSoto as a second car, and then they bought a 1980 or 81 Buick Century (dunno if it was new or used), which was the car that they had when I bought the DeSoto in 1990.
So, that's three cars over the course of 31 years. Guess it's possible that they had no more than five over 38.
Now I should add this disclaimer...the wife didn't work and the husband only worked a few miles from home, so these cars weren't exactly put through the paces. Had any of those cars been subjected to a rougher life, I'm sure they wouldn't have lasted nearly as long. Rust would have claimed the DeSoto, the Pontiac probably would have lost its slim-jim transmission right about the age that it had no book value and wasn't worth fixing, and the Century probably just had the 231 V-6, which in those days was not nearly as durable as 1985+ editions.
I've only been driving for about 25 years, but I've lost track of how many cars I've had. I think 18 or 19. I'd tend to buy 'em old, or get hand-me-downs that family members didn't want anymore. Only new car I ever had was a 2000 Intrepid, but even it lasted 10 years, and a hit-and-run in the parking lot that totaled it was what sent it to its death, rather than any mechanical failure.
You're trying to twist things.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I did a lot of driving on those five cars, too:
66 VW Bug - bought used @63K miles; sold @235K miles
85 VW Jetta - bought new; sold @143K miles
94 Mercury Villager (with Nissan engine and tranny) bought new; sold @225K miles
98 Audi A4 - bought new; sold @88K miles (the least reliable, but most fun car of the bunch)
05 Acura TL - bough new; currently at 113K miles
While none of the above vehicles were perfect, they all did pretty well. The Audi had a few cooling problems which the dealer had trouble finding. The Mercury was the identical vehicle to the Nissan Quest of the time.
China may be good for GM and GE, but I've got my doubts about them and the overall future good of the US.
Jobs are trickling back from China. Some quotes from the article.
WSJ link to part of article. Full article requires subscription
"A few years ago in Hong Kong I met a furniture manufacturer from South Carolina who had outsourced production to China and then been crushed by his Chinese partners, who bumped him aside and started selling directly to the U.S. market.
...
Mr. Cochrane says furniture made in China and sold in the U.S. previously had a price advantage of up to 50%. That's often down to 10% to 15% now, in part because wages in China are soaring—up 15% or more a year in some locales. Shipping costs, he says, have doubled from a few years ago.
...
Among the forces: those ever-rising costs in China; more flexibility from some U.S. unions, resulting in fewer work rules and lower labor costs; more subsidies from some state governments; far higher productivity in the U.S.; and pressure from retailers to shorten turnaround time and cut inventories, prompting more manufacturers to abandon long supply chains to China.
...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,