The Chrysler 300 is far better than the previous version. It is a forceful design that has won many admirers. The availability of a Hemi is just what many folks want. Tricked out they demand attention. The C300 IS what the Lincoln Continental concept would have been: a powerful design which is winning many converts to Chrysler and is selling quite well. If its' sales have tanked, it's certainly news to me. I see LOTs of them on the road.
The Ford 500 and Mercury Montego are capable but B L A N D cars. Recalling the drawings for the Montego, it looked sporty and exciting. The real thing is grandma's car. The drawing of the MKS could lead to the same result. They will have a new engine this year, the 3.5 V6 making 265 or so HP which will certainly be a huge improvement. mpg should make buyers glad it's not a V8 under the hood. The redesign I have not seen, but I seriously doubt Ford will try to or even be able to make these twins anywhere near as distinctive as the 300. They'll still be bland, just in a different way. I think I've seen a total of 1/2 dozen of these twins on the road in the year or more since they've been introduced. I seriously doubt the 500 will ever outsell the 300 unless a miracle occurs.
Now no one but 'chirco...' thinks the Freestyle is a minivan. It's more like an expansive station wagon. But no one is buying the thing either. That's a bit of a puzzle to me since it is a really well designed, functional fairly economical vehicle. Course the weak engine doesn't help but it seems soccer moms would love it. Course it is also bland and Ford has not marketed it worth a darn.
Speaking of, Ford ought to fire their marketers forthwith. They have THE WORST TV advertising in history (remember IMHO). The 'Bold Moves' thing is totally ridiculous. Does it make ANYONE want to buy a Ford???? I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher". BLECH. Dreck. MKCRAP.
One of the posters here (named for a boxer and a kung-fu fighter) is pretty well off the charts in his love for the MKS (and hatred of just about anything else.) I cant fathom what he's so excited about since the MKS is nothing but a drawing and a prototype which is to be redesigned before Job 1 anyway. Anyone who would want a suede dashboard should be ignored in any case! :>)
I've parallel parked, let's see, once, since taking my driver's test. Wait, it was during my driver's test.
But, I really want to see that auto-park in action.
I'm sure I'll walk away saying "cooooool - I want one!" and my wife will just roll her eyes, as usual. This is the woman who reminded me that the $2000 charged for satnav will buy a lot of maps.
I don't understand Dr. Z for these reasons. It's like we as americans since we are dumb, are suppose to over-look those quality issues since we are use to getting junk.. :confuse:
I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products...
When I see that kind of advertising, it tells me the company doesn't believe in its products, or don't have a product worth showing. Maybe that's not the case w/ FoMoCo, but I agree it's a horrible ad idea.
I have two questions for ya, Rocky. Don't you think by the time you're old enough to die, we may have overcome that little problem too?
My god nvbanker, you are quite the conspiracy theorist. I think perhaps for the rich, such as yourself they might be able to over come it. However at that point are we playing god then ?
Not saying anything, just asking your opinion, and I admire your optimism.
Well if your a atheist such as a few of my friends and relatives, then you wouldn't be playing god. Some believe we will be reincarinated so if you believe in that then yes I will get to enjoy the future gadgets. However what good does that do me if I can't remember the past ?
Second question is, and this one is the corker - if they make that MKS in Mexico, would you buy it, no matter how many gadgets it had? I mean even if it has bluetooth, hot and cooled seats, reverse camera, rain sensing wipers, parktronic, distronic cruise, and even what Lexus is introducing next year - auto-park. This gismo is supposed to park the car with sonar, once you get it close to a spot. The driver controls the speed, the car does the steering. Can't wait to see how that works.
I guess that depends on the amount of American content the MKS has in it. It would at that point be a hard decision, but I seriously doubt I would buy one at that point. I'd opt for the Volvo S80 instead. I do have morales, and they are more important than gadgets to me. I'd probably have to say no on that hard question
What's up with all the hard questions ? They are goodens though :P
" I do have morales, and they are more important than gadgets to me."
You have 'morales' but u wont buy a Mexican-made car?
But you would buy a Swedish made car.
Hmmmm.
PS: The MKS, if released as presently shown, would have close to ZERO American content. After all, the entire chassis is Swedish, the engine Japanese, the tranny probably Japanese too though perhaps European, the radio etc Japanese. Perhaps the suede will be American though!
my bad....by freestyle i meant the actual minivan Freestar. The Freestyle is a capable SUV, however too expensive and too bland. ANd you are right, many are extremely overpriced compared to their competition.
Do you really want the answer to that question? Chrysler gave the american car something it hadn't had in decades-a go looking car that made you feel it was proud to be American- not some japenese copying, cheap last attemt to make it in the luxury club. Nothing is different about the style of this car than years ago on the first Taurus! And the 300 will soon have an update. Have you heard of all the new technology in the new Sebring? Suppose that techy stuff as well as a big interior update goes into the mix? THe Mdx-sorry-MKS has less of a chance. And it was already doing pretty bad! THe MKZ looks better than the MKS. And ford's never had teechnology that great. Oh, And whats with the OMG? someone's been doing a little too much IMing! :P
As interesting as this may be, let's try to stay focused on the Lincoln MKS rather than Chrysler vehicles. Thanks!
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The Volvo S80 has 3 settings available allowing the driver to somewhat control the ride firmness. This concept is not new. My old '90 T-Bird had two positions - normal and firm. Firm would automatically come in to play under WOT or harder cornering or you could manually select "firm." The result was a compliant ride around town and, at the flick of a toggle, firmer handling in the twisties. Lincoln had a 3 position control on the Continental - none of which was very good, by the way.
To me, this adjustablility is a great feature and I don't know why we don't see it more. I haven't heard that the MKS will use the Volvo system but I wish they would.
Some of the Marks also had a suspension that lowered at higher speeds. Supposedly more stable at speed than a higher center of gravity. Wonder if anybody uses that any more?
I'd take a V8-RWD "German-American" car over a Mazda made in Mexico (Lincoln MKZ) or a Volvo with a Japanese engine.
Maybe, but those German-American (I'll add Canadian since they're assembled there) cars still have lousy interiors for the money.
Back on topic, the more I look at my computer wallpaper, a pic of the MKS, the more I'm beginning to like the car. I think a lot of my initial disappointment with it was in comparison to the 2002 Continental concept, which I liked.
I think that would be great. However, in the price class that has been bandied about for the MKS, it probably needs a V8 (the lack of one is a constant criticism, for example, of the Aura RL).
True, but the RL only has 300 hp. 350 hp might make up for missing 2 cylinders.
FYI - I've heard from an insider that this is exactly the plan. The 4.4L V8 is too expensive by comparison and the 3.5L TT would yield more power, better handling (because it's lighter) and better fuel economy.
I agree with you totally. And I think the perception that a V6 cannot stand in for a V8 is stupid. However, that perception is there.
Ford better get going to find a V8 (or V10) that can fit in cars like the 500/Montego/MKS/MKX and the Edge. In just a couple seasons, larger cars will have to at least offer 400 hp as an option in order to stay competitive. It wasn't that long ago that 200 hp was seen as more than adequate (and in most cases it still is), but time marches on and the competition never lets up.
Several thoughs this thread has put into this new member's mind:
We bought a '99 Continental with less than 20,000 miles for Bride to drive to work (100 miles/day); liked it better than any sedan either of us ever drove; when it got a bit long in the tooth we traveled over 1200 miles to buy a low-mileage '02 Continental, after looking at and rejecting every other car on the market, new or used, beneath $30,000, including its successor, the LS, and that gawd-awful-looking Zepher with the Walter Middy spaceship dashboard.
Regardless of the horsepower, we baby-boomers have a soft spot for the SOUND of a V-8; and yet, having recently listened to the exhaust note of a Toyota Tundra V-8 when the driver put his foot into it, somehow at least the sound of a Japanese V8 has no more soul than their cars do.
Re cars built in Mexico: I say HURRAH! Every job America creates in Mexico is one less illegal alien we have to pay for up here. Furthermore, the nationality bastardation of American brand-name vehicles is so deep and has been going on so long that it's really a moot point.
Where did the Maurader go? Now, there was a man's car! It went under due to poor sales, is where it went. Have we baby-boomer males conceded car selection so totally to our wives, and have we retreated so completely to buying Harley bikes to get our visceral motoring satisfaction?
"Chrysler gave the american car something it hadn't had in decades-a go looking car that made you feel it was proud to be American- not some japenese copying, cheap last attemt to make it in the luxury club."
You do know that the 300 does not lead the luxury car segment IN AMERICA in sales right? Tell me the logic here. The Japanese are cleaning house with their designs. Lexus seems unstoppable, the are about to introduce the new LS and already have orders for it. The Japanese luxury cars are all almost brand new. The G35, the GS, the IS, the LS, the M45 and the Lincoln looks better than all of them. In a year or so, those cars will not even be close to redesigns, so the Lincoln will shine over them as a better application of their own design. Haven't the Japenese been doing that for oh say a decade now. Have you seen the MKS in person or are you just talking without seeing it. I have seen and inspected it in person and the only thing I could say is "I have to find a way to make enough money to buy one of these". Your feelings on the car, you have a right too, but that doesn't make it a bad design or bad business sense.
"THe Mdx-sorry-MKS has less of a chance. And it was already doing pretty bad! THe MKZ looks better than the MKS."
Or do you mean the CTS, sorry I meant XLR, I mean, STS. Or the MDX, sorry RDX, sorry TL, opps I meant RL. Or maybe the IS, sorry LS, sorry RX, opps GX, I mean GS. Get off the whole naming thing already. Everybody does it and it hasn't hampered their success yet. Go tell the Lexus dealers that are sold out of ISs that people driving them might be confused and think it is a GS. The letter S and C sound similar and I am sure Cadi isn't having a problem with it. And on the looks of the MKZ versus the MKS. Have you seen them in the metal? Go to my carspace page and there are real life pics of the MKS. After you see them, email me so that we can work out how we both are going to save up the money to buy one because in person, it is a very nice ride
On a side note, I showed one of my female co-workers my real life pictures of the MKS to judge what the REAL publics reaction would be and not us car nuts that will complain if there is a screw shared between the MKS and Focus on the undercompartment of the spare tire. "All she could say is wow I want one. That is one of the best looking cars I have ever seen."
You think the japenese automakers are leading this? Chrysler is killing them all!- just kiding! But seriously-everyone's chasing benz and Bmw-beside the point. Now I'm no where near a lexus fan, but the new lexus LS looks ten times better than that Lincoln Monkey see monkey do mess-which I saw in person at the Chicago autoshow! You proved my point of lincoln copying already. Lexus IS/GS. Lincoln MKZ/MKS/MKX-do you see where I'm going here? Oh yeah- and I drove the MKZ. Not so bad. And none of my female friends, co-workers, or relatives have lincolns or took a second look at these Though they did like acura Tls, 300s and STS's .I'm telling you- look in any magazine. Editors don't approve of the copycat styling. Trust me-I would know!
"I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher". BLECH. Dreck. MKCRAP."
Quoting myself here, but I just found an article in adage which 'reviewed' the new Lincoln TV commercial I mentioned here and, boy did they agree with me in spades. You gotta read this. What is WRONG with the people in charge of marketing Ford products. They are truly pathetic. Probably all making 6 figures too. Check it out:
"That's why this "anthem" won't sell any automobiles, or generate showroom traffic, or inspire anyone to do anything -- unless possibly to dismiss Lincoln as a pitiful throwback."
Sounds like here's been reading the posts here on Edmunds.
While FoMoCo cuts production and jobs, they should reassess their advertising and make some changes there. Clean house, cancel contracts as necessary, and find someone new. As ambivalent as I am towards Lexus and Toyota (due to my anti-establishment / counter-trend mentality) they do have some of the best advertising: it shows off the product and at the same time does what Lincoln is trying to do, create an atmosphere and aura.
I actaully really liked the advertisement and so did others that have mentioned it in other forums. You can't have just product ads. That is Marketing 201. You have to make a statement about the brand and a luxury car is much LESS about the CAR and much MORE about the BRAND (I am not yelling, I am trying to be creative, my message is basically Less Car More Brand). Merc had an ad with all of its cars at csome drive up dinner. BMW had an ad that didn't even show its cars. Infiniti had one that went through its whole line up as well. I mean come on, we have to be fare here. First its the naming that everybody harps on that all other brands have done already, now its the commercials that every other brand is doing. I actually was really intrigued by the commercial and liked it a lot. It put a kind of car philosphy to their cars. The audience is supposed to attribute the Lincoln cars with dreams of success. Now, when they roll out the new products and they are actually on the lots, I would be surprised if there weren't more product focused material. Putting the MKX's attributes in a commercial now may lead to buyers going to their Lincoln dealerships and being told to wait 2-3 months. Marketing 101, many buyers won't wait.
"Now this is where the Nike product shot is supposed to show up, or the U.S. Marine scaling a cliff or something worthy of all the hackneyed self-actualization blather. But, no, what shows up is a fleet of luxury cars."
This is an excerpt from the aforementioned article. This also illustrates that just because the guy writes for an Advertising journal doesn't mean he knows squat. The U.S. Marines and Nike have been racking in people by reaching out to their wants not toting a particular product. Remember "I want to be like Mike. I;d like, I;d like to be like Mike." Than Air Jordan Nikes retailed at a record price over $100 and they couldn't even be kept on the shelves. The commercials had little to do with the shoe. Why doesn't Cadi advertise the Escalade that much? Do you think that perhaps all those music videos with rich and high profile celebrities in their Escalades may not be serious marketing with NO product information? Even people who don't watch music videos know the Escalade is a staple of "I have mad it big" mindset.
Another idiotic quote from the article. The guy says the article is:
I'd dare him to ask the next guy he sees in a Mercedes CLS, what praticality he saw in the vehicle or its advertising. It's a luxury vehicle, call me stupid but Rolls Royce = vacuous, pompous, pointless and they are the pinnacle of luxury.
It put a kind of car philosphy to their cars. The audience is supposed to attribute the Lincoln cars with dreams of success. Now, when they roll out the new products and they are actually on the lots, I would be surprised if there weren't more product focused material.
I'll concede you have a good point there. This campaign could be effective if followed up, soon, with product-oriented material, but not without. As a marketing major, many years ago, I do seem to recall Marketing 101 also saying something about advertising to the product. A bad ad is one where everyone is talking about this great ad they saw but forgetting what it was for.
Have u ever taken marketing 101 or 201? Apparently the writer of the review has. He gets paid to review advertisements. No, doesn't mean he's infallible, but it is his job.
So you and 'others in other forums' (what other forums BTW?) 'really liked it'? To each his own. I recall when the LS was introduced, an ad showing an LS negotiating the twisties on a road following a coastline. Occasionally, the camera would flash to the driver shifting gears manually. This wasn't a great ad, but it was good and it sucked me in. It showed the PRODUCT, not some vacuous yuppies talking about their success.
And the naming is STILL stupid. It's going to be a laughing stock, MK my words. It's already started in the MK Z first drive here where the reviewer tells the reader to pronounce it "Mark Z". Well, that's SOOO last week.
George - I agree on the ad - it sucks. But I don't agree that just because you get paid for something you're good at it.
A few years ago when Chris Wardlaw was the editor here at Edmunds he chastised Ford saying it couldn't make up its mind whether the AJ V8 was 3.9L (LS) or 4.0L (S-type). I sent him an email and told him the displacement really was different because the LS had a 1 mm shorter stroke. His reply? "I don't understand what the stroke would have to do with the displacement of the engine." Which is sort of like saying "why would a tall glass hold more water than a short glass of the same diameter?". I rest my case!
You have 'morales' but u wont buy a Mexican-made car?
That is correct, I buy products as often as I can that are made by people that make a decent wage to support their family's. This is something Sweden does and Mexico doesn't enforce. I think that decribes/explains my "morale character" :P
We aren't sure yet if the MKS, won't be assembled in the U.S. Why do you think it will be made in Sweden, along side of the new Volvo S80 ?
I have a minor in marketing along with a Bachelor of Science in Finance and a specialization in personal finance and a job analyzing corporations' operations as far as management, financing, and marketing. If you must know.
Any how I saw a commercial for Cadillac today where the ENTIRE commercial was this metal welder producing the Cadilac symbol. NOT ONE CAR IN IT. As I said, it is very common in the luxury industry. Do you disagree with that or not? If you agree, than move on to the next topic. If not than you don't watch enough TV.
BTW we are not supposed to mention other forums from other sites in these forums. If you'd really like to know please email me and I will provide the link.
I have a minor in aluminum can recycling and majored in windshield washing. My graduate thesis was about preparing "will work for food" signs, If you must know. (actually, come to think of it, no one asked to see anyone's resume) I think Ford's ads all stink. But I suppose some people's opinion is more valid than mine.
"George - I agree on the ad - it sucks. But I don't agree that just because you get paid for something you're good at it. "
Allen - I said: 'He gets paid to review advertisements. No, doesn't mean he's infallible, but it is his job.' Ths ad sucks. It's MK CRAP. It won't sell a single car. I said that, he said that and you seem to agree. SO maybe he DOES know what he's talking about.
As for Wardlaw, that's pretty sad that an automotive reviewer has no clue about the relationship of stroke (and bore perhaps?) to engine displacement. But I'm not surprised. I'll bet 80-90% of these Edmund's "reviewers" would fail a test on basic automotive mechanics. I also remember all the screw-ups in the LS review and how Edmunds sorta stuck to their guns even when presented with facts. As usual, you gotta consider the source.
With a minor in marketing, you're less dangerous at least than most of those I've met as an engineer who actually majored in 'marketing'.
Haven't seen the Caddy commercial, but I can state based on your description it's far better and says more than the vacuous "I have a dream " ad from Lincoln. (Say, wonder when they'll bring MLK into it? Initials sorta fit too!.) Why? Because the worker is creating a well-known symbol for Cadillac. THat would be the point.
And please, don't tell me what to do. You don't like the topic? DON'T RESPOND TO IT.
"I have a minor in aluminum can recycling and majored in windshield washing. My graduate thesis was about preparing "will work for food" signs, If you must know. (actually, come to think of it, no one asked to see anyone's resume)"
Really? Here is the first sentence forom post 399:
"Haven't seen the Caddy commercial, but I can state based on your description it's far better and says more than the vacuous "I have a dream " ad from Lincoln."
You're ORIGINAL complaint about the Lincoln ad was that it did not have PRODUCT information on it. All I said is that that advertising is common in the luzury segment. My question to you was is what I am saying true or not? Which you still haven't answered because it would defeat your entire statement. Here is a quote from you on the what you thought the problem with the Lincoln commercial was in care you forgot.
"I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher""
Again I challenge you to answer the question of doesn't the Cadi ad with no cars at all, the BMW ads with no cars at all, the Merc ad with all of its cars at an old dinner, do exactly the same thing. That being, have no information on the actually products and just highlight the brands' message.
How many years has the Cadillac crest been associated with Cadillac? 50? 100? Just guessing. How many years has "Reach Higher" and "I want the corner office" been associated with Lincoln? 1/300 th? Just guessing.
The Lincoln marketers come up with a new LAME marketing campaign every year or two. They haven't had a good one since "What an American ... should be." which was when they WERE selling the best and most AMerican luxury cars. They are flailing and floundering with both product and marketing for 6 or more years.
There is some truth to what you are saying, if I understand you correctly thru all your grammatical errors and misspellings. However, this does not defeat my argument, not that I give a rip. I'm referring to a specific ad which was ripped by an "expert" at ad age for being vacuous. I agree with him. That's all I said.
heyjewel is right..that's all he said and it is hardly grounds for anyone to take offense.
I think that Lincoln has to do the "original Infiniti ad campaign, bomb-type thing" at the moment, because there is no use touting the Town Car (sad old thing about to die), the Zephyr is about to become the MKZ (but hasn't yet), the questionable Navi update hasn't been released yet, Aviator is dead and MKX is not here yet for several months, and the LS is no longer being built. What do they have to crow about this month? Nothing, but the blue sky value of the Lincoln name. So I say, better they put out such a lame ad than just close up shop for awhile. Lookee here. Some folks even like it.
"I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher""
Your point about the Lincoln ad was that it had no product information. You capitalize the word "nothing" when you wrote it. All I asked you was don't other luxury makes do the same exact thing and focus on the brand? A question you have yet to answer. Then I gave you examples of other makes doing the same marketing. The fact that Cadi's crest has been around longer than Lincoln's current marketing campaign means nothing, SINCE YOUR ORIGINAL POINT WAS ABOUT PRODUCT INFORMATION BEING SHOWN IN THE COMMERCIAL. (Caps only added for emphasis since it seems like we go every which way but straight in this discussion)
On discussion boards, no body really cares about misspellings. This isn't peoples job, this is their hobby. I at least don't care and through hundreds of posts, people have still gotten the point.
I just saw a new Cadi ad where they show a couple guys building an engine and are saying XYZ is connected to ABC which is connected to DEF. Then they show the engine complete and sitting in an XLR. The screen flashes to the XLR driving up a mountain road. Then the screen reads how Cadi hand builds their engines and their new Pursuit of Liberty or whatever the new tagline is flashes on the screen. Again ABSOLUTE NO INDIVIDUAL PRODUCT INFORMATION. The ad is to promote the brand. You must hate that one too, or do you just have something against Lincoln? Maybe you should just say that you don't like Brand based advertising and like Product based ads better. That is a fair and resonable opinion that I can respect.
On your comments that the journalist for the advertising journal looks at advertising for a living. He is writing based on HIS opinion. I am sure the marketing studio Lincoln hired to do its advertising HAVE PEOPLE WITH SEVERAL MASTERS AND BACHELORS in marketing as well as years of experience and also use clinics aka focus groups to judge the ads affects on its target market. Just something to think about.
Comments
The Chrysler 300 is far better than the previous version. It is a forceful design that has won many admirers. The availability of a Hemi is just what many folks want. Tricked out they demand attention. The C300 IS what the Lincoln Continental concept would have been: a powerful design which is winning many converts to Chrysler and is selling quite well. If its' sales have tanked, it's certainly news to me. I see LOTs of them on the road.
The Ford 500 and Mercury Montego are capable but B L A N D cars. Recalling the drawings for the Montego, it looked sporty and exciting. The real thing is grandma's car. The drawing of the MKS could lead to the same result. They will have a new engine this year, the 3.5 V6 making 265 or so HP which will certainly be a huge improvement. mpg should make buyers glad it's not a V8 under the hood. The redesign I have not seen, but I seriously doubt Ford will try to or even be able to make these twins anywhere near as distinctive as the 300. They'll still be bland, just in a different way. I think I've seen a total of 1/2 dozen of these twins on the road in the year or more since they've been introduced. I seriously doubt the 500 will ever outsell the 300 unless a miracle occurs.
Now no one but 'chirco...' thinks the Freestyle is a minivan. It's more like an expansive station wagon. But no one is buying the thing either. That's a bit of a puzzle to me since it is a really well designed, functional fairly economical vehicle. Course the weak engine doesn't help but it seems soccer moms would love it. Course it is also bland and Ford has not marketed it worth a darn.
Speaking of, Ford ought to fire their marketers forthwith. They have THE WORST TV advertising in history (remember IMHO). The 'Bold Moves' thing is totally ridiculous. Does it make ANYONE want to buy a Ford???? I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher". BLECH. Dreck. MKCRAP.
One of the posters here (named for a boxer and a kung-fu fighter) is pretty well off the charts in his love for the MKS (and hatred of just about anything else.) I cant fathom what he's so excited about since the MKS is nothing but a drawing and a prototype which is to be redesigned before Job 1 anyway. Anyone who would want a suede dashboard should be ignored in any case! :>)
But, I really want to see that auto-park in action.
I'm sure I'll walk away saying "cooooool - I want one!" and my wife will just roll her eyes, as usual. This is the woman who reminded me that the $2000 charged for satnav will buy a lot of maps.
Maybe I'm suppose to ? :surprise:
Rocky
When I see that kind of advertising, it tells me the company doesn't believe in its products, or don't have a product worth showing. Maybe that's not the case w/ FoMoCo, but I agree it's a horrible ad idea.
I do like a couple of the Mustang ads I've seen.
My god nvbanker, you are quite the conspiracy theorist. I think perhaps for the rich, such as yourself they might be able to over come it. However at that point are we playing god then ?
Not saying anything, just asking your opinion, and I admire your optimism.
Well if your a atheist such as a few of my friends and relatives, then you wouldn't be playing god. Some believe we will be reincarinated so if you believe in that then yes I will get to enjoy the future gadgets.
Second question is, and this one is the corker - if they make that MKS in Mexico, would you buy it, no matter how many gadgets it had? I mean even if it has bluetooth, hot and cooled seats, reverse camera, rain sensing wipers, parktronic, distronic cruise, and even what Lexus is introducing next year - auto-park. This gismo is supposed to park the car with sonar, once you get it close to a spot. The driver controls the speed, the car does the steering. Can't wait to see how that works.
I guess that depends on the amount of American content the MKS has in it. It would at that point be a hard decision, but I seriously doubt I would buy one at that point. I'd opt for the Volvo S80 instead. I do have morales, and they are more important than gadgets to me. I'd probably have to say no on that hard question
What's up with all the hard questions ? They are goodens though :P
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
You have 'morales' but u wont buy a Mexican-made car?
But you would buy a Swedish made car.
Hmmmm.
PS: The MKS, if released as presently shown, would have close to ZERO American content. After all, the entire chassis is Swedish, the engine Japanese, the tranny probably Japanese too though perhaps European, the radio etc Japanese. Perhaps the suede will be American though!
Uh, German-American, I think! :P
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Review your vehicle
Since the Chrysler 300 is a direct competetor for the MKS (aka Volvo with a Yamaha engine) we are indeed focused on the topic on hand.
To me, this adjustablility is a great feature and I don't know why we don't see it more. I haven't heard that the MKS will use the Volvo system but I wish they would.
Comments?
Maybe, but those German-American (I'll add Canadian since they're assembled there) cars still have lousy interiors for the money.
Back on topic, the more I look at my computer wallpaper, a pic of the MKS, the more I'm beginning to like the car. I think a lot of my initial disappointment with it was in comparison to the 2002 Continental concept, which I liked.
FYI - I've heard from an insider that this is exactly the plan. The 4.4L V8 is too expensive by comparison and the 3.5L TT would yield more power, better handling (because it's lighter) and better fuel economy.
Ford better get going to find a V8 (or V10) that can fit in cars like the 500/Montego/MKS/MKX and the Edge. In just a couple seasons, larger cars will have to at least offer 400 hp as an option in order to stay competitive. It wasn't that long ago that 200 hp was seen as more than adequate (and in most cases it still is), but time marches on and the competition never lets up.
We bought a '99 Continental with less than 20,000 miles for Bride to drive to work (100 miles/day); liked it better than any sedan either of us ever drove; when it got a bit long in the tooth we traveled over 1200 miles to buy a low-mileage '02 Continental, after looking at and rejecting every other car on the market, new or used, beneath $30,000, including its successor, the LS, and that gawd-awful-looking Zepher with the Walter Middy spaceship dashboard.
Regardless of the horsepower, we baby-boomers have a soft spot for the SOUND of a V-8; and yet, having recently listened to the exhaust note of a Toyota Tundra V-8 when the driver put his foot into it, somehow at least the sound of a Japanese V8 has no more soul than their cars do.
Re cars built in Mexico: I say HURRAH! Every job America creates in Mexico is one less illegal alien we have to pay for up here. Furthermore, the nationality bastardation of American brand-name vehicles is so deep and has been going on so long that it's really a moot point.
Where did the Maurader go? Now, there was a man's car! It went under due to poor sales, is where it went. Have we baby-boomer males conceded car selection so totally to our wives, and have we retreated so completely to buying Harley bikes to get our visceral motoring satisfaction?
You do know that the 300 does not lead the luxury car segment IN AMERICA in sales right? Tell me the logic here. The Japanese are cleaning house with their designs. Lexus seems unstoppable, the are about to introduce the new LS and already have orders for it. The Japanese luxury cars are all almost brand new. The G35, the GS, the IS, the LS, the M45 and the Lincoln looks better than all of them. In a year or so, those cars will not even be close to redesigns, so the Lincoln will shine over them as a better application of their own design. Haven't the Japenese been doing that for oh say a decade now. Have you seen the MKS in person or are you just talking without seeing it. I have seen and inspected it in person and the only thing I could say is "I have to find a way to make enough money to buy one of these". Your feelings on the car, you have a right too, but that doesn't make it a bad design or bad business sense.
"THe Mdx-sorry-MKS has less of a chance. And it was already doing pretty bad! THe MKZ looks better than the MKS."
Or do you mean the CTS, sorry I meant XLR, I mean, STS. Or the MDX, sorry RDX, sorry TL, opps I meant RL. Or maybe the IS, sorry LS, sorry RX, opps GX, I mean GS. Get off the whole naming thing already. Everybody does it and it hasn't hampered their success yet. Go tell the Lexus dealers that are sold out of ISs that people driving them might be confused and think it is a GS. The letter S and C sound similar and I am sure Cadi isn't having a problem with it. And on the looks of the MKZ versus the MKS. Have you seen them in the metal? Go to my carspace page and there are real life pics of the MKS. After you see them, email me so that we can work out how we both are going to save up the money to buy one because in person, it is a very nice ride
On a side note, I showed one of my female co-workers my real life pictures of the MKS to judge what the REAL publics reaction would be and not us car nuts that will complain if there is a screw shared between the MKS and Focus on the undercompartment of the spare tire. "All she could say is wow I want one. That is one of the best looking cars I have ever seen."
Quoting myself here, but I just found an article in adage which 'reviewed' the new Lincoln TV commercial I mentioned here and, boy did they agree with me in spades. You gotta read this. What is WRONG with the people in charge of marketing Ford products. They are truly pathetic. Probably all making 6 figures too. Check it out:
http://adage.com/columns/article?article_id=111127
"That's why this "anthem" won't sell any automobiles, or generate showroom traffic, or inspire anyone to do anything -- unless possibly to dismiss Lincoln as a pitiful throwback."
Sounds like here's been reading the posts here on Edmunds.
This is an excerpt from the aforementioned article. This also illustrates that just because the guy writes for an Advertising journal doesn't mean he knows squat. The U.S. Marines and Nike have been racking in people by reaching out to their wants not toting a particular product. Remember "I want to be like Mike. I;d like, I;d like to be like Mike." Than Air Jordan Nikes retailed at a record price over $100 and they couldn't even be kept on the shelves. The commercials had little to do with the shoe. Why doesn't Cadi advertise the Escalade that much? Do you think that perhaps all those music videos with rich and high profile celebrities in their Escalades may not be serious marketing with NO product information? Even people who don't watch music videos know the Escalade is a staple of "I have mad it big" mindset.
Another idiotic quote from the article. The guy says the article is:
"Perfectly vacuous. Perfectly pompous. Perfectly pointless."
I'd dare him to ask the next guy he sees in a Mercedes CLS, what praticality he saw in the vehicle or its advertising. It's a luxury vehicle, call me stupid but Rolls Royce = vacuous, pompous, pointless and they are the pinnacle of luxury.
I'll concede you have a good point there. This campaign could be effective if followed up, soon, with product-oriented material, but not without. As a marketing major, many years ago, I do seem to recall Marketing 101 also saying something about advertising to the product. A bad ad is one where everyone is talking about this great ad they saw but forgetting what it was for.
Have u ever taken marketing 101 or 201? Apparently the writer of the review has. He gets paid to review advertisements. No, doesn't mean he's infallible, but it is his job.
So you and 'others in other forums' (what other forums BTW?) 'really liked it'? To each his own. I recall when the LS was introduced, an ad showing an LS negotiating the twisties on a road following a coastline. Occasionally, the camera would flash to the driver shifting gears manually. This wasn't a great ad, but it was good and it sucked me in. It showed the PRODUCT, not some vacuous yuppies talking about their success.
And the naming is STILL stupid. It's going to be a laughing stock, MK my words. It's already started in the MK Z first drive here where the reviewer tells the reader to pronounce it "Mark Z". Well, that's SOOO last week.
A few years ago when Chris Wardlaw was the editor here at Edmunds he chastised Ford saying it couldn't make up its mind whether the AJ V8 was 3.9L (LS) or 4.0L (S-type). I sent him an email and told him the displacement really was different because the LS had a 1 mm shorter stroke. His reply? "I don't understand what the stroke would have to do with the displacement of the engine." Which is sort of like saying "why would a tall glass hold more water than a short glass of the same diameter?". I rest my case!
That is correct, I buy products as often as I can that are made by people that make a decent wage to support their family's. This is something Sweden does and Mexico doesn't enforce.
"morale character" :P
We aren't sure yet if the MKS, won't be assembled in the U.S. Why do you think it will be made in Sweden, along side of the new Volvo S80 ?
The S80, is something I am considering also.
Rocky
I might have morals, but want to know: Will they offer it with a Manuel transmission?
Any how I saw a commercial for Cadillac today where the ENTIRE commercial was this metal welder producing the Cadilac symbol. NOT ONE CAR IN IT. As I said, it is very common in the luxury industry. Do you disagree with that or not? If you agree, than move on to the next topic. If not than you don't watch enough TV.
BTW we are not supposed to mention other forums from other sites in these forums. If you'd really like to know please email me and I will provide the link.
(actually, come to think of it, no one asked to see anyone's resume)
I think Ford's ads all stink. But I suppose some people's opinion is more valid than mine.
I might have morals, but want to know: Will they offer it with a Manuel transmission? "
ROFLMAO.
Thanks, Scooter, for seeing the humor. It went right over young rocky's head. And Manuel transmission, boohahahah good follow.
Allen - I said: 'He gets paid to review advertisements. No, doesn't mean he's infallible, but it is his job.' Ths ad sucks. It's MK CRAP. It won't sell a single car. I said that, he said that and you seem to agree. SO maybe he DOES know what he's talking about.
As for Wardlaw, that's pretty sad that an automotive reviewer has no clue about the relationship of stroke (and bore perhaps?) to engine displacement. But I'm not surprised. I'll bet 80-90% of these Edmund's "reviewers" would fail a test on basic automotive mechanics. I also remember all the screw-ups in the LS review and how Edmunds sorta stuck to their guns even when presented with facts. As usual, you gotta consider the source.
Haven't seen the Caddy commercial, but I can state based on your description it's far better and says more than the vacuous "I have a dream " ad from Lincoln. (Say, wonder when they'll bring MLK into it? Initials sorta fit too!.) Why? Because the worker is creating a well-known symbol for Cadillac. THat would be the point.
And please, don't tell me what to do. You don't like the topic? DON'T RESPOND TO IT.
(actually, come to think of it, no one asked to see anyone's resume)"
Really? Here is the first sentence forom post 399:
"Have u ever taken marketing 101 or 201?"
You're ORIGINAL complaint about the Lincoln ad was that it did not have PRODUCT information on it. All I said is that that advertising is common in the luzury segment. My question to you was is what I am saying true or not? Which you still haven't answered because it would defeat your entire statement. Here is a quote from you on the what you thought the problem with the Lincoln commercial was in care you forgot.
"I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher""
Again I challenge you to answer the question of doesn't the Cadi ad with no cars at all, the BMW ads with no cars at all, the Merc ad with all of its cars at an old dinner, do exactly the same thing. That being, have no information on the actually products and just highlight the brands' message.
The Lincoln marketers come up with a new LAME marketing campaign every year or two. They haven't had a good one since "What an American ... should be." which was when they WERE selling the best and most AMerican luxury cars. They are flailing and floundering with both product and marketing for 6 or more years.
There is some truth to what you are saying, if I understand you correctly thru all your grammatical errors and misspellings. However, this does not defeat my argument, not that I give a rip. I'm referring to a specific ad which was ripped by an "expert" at ad age for being vacuous. I agree with him. That's all I said.
I think that Lincoln has to do the "original Infiniti ad campaign, bomb-type thing" at the moment, because there is no use touting the Town Car (sad old thing about to die), the Zephyr is about to become the MKZ (but hasn't yet), the questionable Navi update hasn't been released yet, Aviator is dead and MKX is not here yet for several months, and the LS is no longer being built. What do they have to crow about this month? Nothing, but the blue sky value of the Lincoln name. So I say, better they put out such a lame ad than just close up shop for awhile. Lookee here. Some folks even like it.
"I just saw a new ad for Lincoln which says NOTHING about Lincoln's products but rather pits lifestyles (I want a good job, I wanna relax at the beach) against one another with the tag line "Reach Higher""
Your point about the Lincoln ad was that it had no product information. You capitalize the word "nothing" when you wrote it. All I asked you was don't other luxury makes do the same exact thing and focus on the brand? A question you have yet to answer. Then I gave you examples of other makes doing the same marketing. The fact that Cadi's crest has been around longer than Lincoln's current marketing campaign means nothing, SINCE YOUR ORIGINAL POINT WAS ABOUT PRODUCT INFORMATION BEING SHOWN IN THE COMMERCIAL. (Caps only added for emphasis since it seems like we go every which way but straight in this discussion)
On discussion boards, no body really cares about misspellings. This isn't peoples job, this is their hobby. I at least don't care and through hundreds of posts, people have still gotten the point.
On your comments that the journalist for the advertising journal looks at advertising for a living. He is writing based on HIS opinion. I am sure the marketing studio Lincoln hired to do its advertising HAVE PEOPLE WITH SEVERAL MASTERS AND BACHELORS in marketing as well as years of experience and also use clinics aka focus groups to judge the ads affects on its target market. Just something to think about.