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Comments
Rocky
It's not that difficult to convert an engine from NS to EW. Anything is possible, just depends upon the resources. The main issue is packaging allowing for AWD.
Does anyone know if the MKS will also have the adaptable headlights as on the show car? It's too bad that Lincoln made a big deal of that technology, but Lexus beat them to market. Lincoln will look like a Johnny-come-lately.
The MKS headlights uses side mounted LEDs to illuminate the curve while the normal headlights remain fixed. This is different than the current adaptive headlight systems that swivel the main lights like Lexus and the new MKX.
If the MKS has what the concept had then they will be breaking new ground.
That's what the show car used, I just wondered if anyone knew anything about the upcoming production car's specs.
Regardless of the difference between what was shown on the MKS and what is being offered on the Lexus, Lexus is here now advertising "adaptive headlights." Given Ford's marketing to date, I doubt they'll do a very good job of saying they showed it off first, and what the differences are. Unfortunatly, the public and probably the press will see Lexus as the technology leader.
Lincoln offered both HIDs AND Adaptive Headlights on the 1995 Mark VIII. So I don't see how Lexus or anyone else can claim first to market. Fact is many mfrs are offering it now including the 2007 MKX that goes on sale in a few months.
"We at Lincoln introduced adapative headlights in 1995.
Of course, we stopped making that car many years ago.
Wanna buy this fancy Mazda? It's made in Mexico and includes the finest D-L shifter and hood prop rod we could engineer.
Or maybe 5000 pounds of Volvo with a Yamaha engine will be more to your liking. We also have the Navigator which only gives up 100 horse power to the Escalade but also has worse fuel economy. If you want a truck we have the Mark LT which is a Ford F-150 with more chrome cleverly disguised and re-engineered to be an F-150 with more chrome"
I think they would be wise to avoid the engineering peeing contest.
The MKS will sell and will have some good attributes, but it is limited to AWD and the extra weight that means in order to get around the FWD bias. And its styling is current near luxury cliche...not groundbreaking or innovative or polarizing. Like it or not (and many people don't), the Chrysler 300, even as common as they are now, still naturally draws the eye when it passes. Even Town Cars, as old and worn as the design has become, still draws attention from Joe non-enthusiast public that an Acura RL or Infiniti M cannot.
Lincoln isn't in Toyota's position where the reputation of the car and resale can allow for more bland styling. And even Toyota, within its ongoing plethora of new products and updates, is beginning to add some pizzaz to its sedans. Put a 2007 Camry next to a Fusion, and the Fusion still looks OK, but the Camry looks drawn with more finesse. Never thought that would happen!
You must be kidding! The 2007 Camry looks like a Mazda6. I'll give Toyota credit for putting the 3.5 and lots of goodies in the 07 Camry but not for style or exterior design. And it looks like Toyota is losing it's rock solid reputation.
Of course, we stopped making that car many years ago.
Wanna buy this fancy Mazda? It's made in Mexico and includes the finest D-L shifter and hood prop rod we could engineer."
Scooter, this time I have to agree with ya. As loyal as I have been to Lincoln in the past, for 15 years, in fact, This Zephyr has really pissed me off. And you just explained why very well.
I remember when the Mark VIII first came out. I was good friends with the LIncoln dealer by then, and he threw me the keys to one one day that hadn't even been prepped yet, and asked me to drive it and give him my opinion. Now, Larry had been known for driving Marks, always white, for years. And here was his new one.
I kicked that baby down from 4th gear going 40mph, and it downshifted directly to first, snapping my neck. For such a big sled, I was way impressed! I also loved the style of it. When the HIDs first came out, again he had me drive one. Of course, those had to be recalled, as they caught fire a time or two, but still, the Mark was awesome. I still maintain that 97 was the high water mark at Lincoln. The Town Car was awesome and drop dead reliable. The Continental had been mostly fixed and gave the gals the car they wanted. The Mark was there for the 'old sport'. Those were the days.
It is taking FoMoCo longer than most to discover that you can't return to success by eliminating and delaying new models. Going back a few years, they discontinued the T-bird in 1997, because sales had dropped--even though it was still making numbers that other companies might have seen as good for a 2 door coupe in that era of lower coupe sales. The problem, if there was one, was they were still selling the 1989 T-bird, and if any segment needs frequent updating to keep sales rolling, it is 2 door coupes. Then they dithered around until bringing out the ill-conceived 2002. It also made good sales for a $40,000 2 seater--but Ford was looking for better sales than that market could provide. Withe some styling changes, it could have been a Lincoln and might still be around.
And another thing (lobbing in the kitchen sink): Make a damn car off the Panther platform or import one from Australia. Keep all the planned models, but get at least one rear driver in the lineup. Give it some pizazz. Call it the MK Town Car if you want...everyone knows a Town Car is a Lincoln.
If ford doesn't cost cut the interior and keeps & adds to the gadgets of this vehicle, this could be very well the best Lincoln ever.
Rocky
As for grills and such looking alike, it happens, and doesn't bother me much. Acura and Mazda had almost the same grill just a few years back on the TL and the Millenia. And variations on that grin-shaped grill have been used by others too. It is the overall shape and presence of the car that makes it (or doesn't) for me--not the front end. Witness the Explorer. They completely changed the front clip and altered the grill completely, but it still looks like the same old design to me (and apparently to a lot of the buyig public).
That'd be the MKTC. Easy.... :P
Yes I have and they were as ugly then as they are now. My reference is also to the ugly 4-door current convertible Chrysler 300. Dude it doesn't even look right to have a 4 door convertible.
Your lack of historical perspective is startling.
I agree my historical perspective when it comes to cars isn't great. The old cars made in the 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's were not much different technology wise than the
Model-T. Sure in the 50's the radio was put into mass production cars-Whoopie ! 60's all they did was make powerful engines for back then, that most couldn't out run the common Toyota Camry made today. My father and I got into it over this. I told him I can go get a Cadillac CTS-V and beat every factory production car made in the 1960's muscle car era.
My point isn't to totally trash the past cars, but just to point out more has be done technology wise in the last 16 years than from the period of 1900-1989.
The new Lincoln MKS, represents perfectly my point.
Rocky
I'm also happy with the MKS name
Rocky
Glad that you do though...Lincoln needs your business. As for it being the best American car ever, well, it is hampered by ho-hum styling, weight, AWD to avoid being FWD, one engine choice, and no visual ties to the rest of the Lincoln line-up. But I'd be thrilled to see it take off and sell like Christmas.
BTW, any 2007 car is light years ahead of a 1960s car technologically. Heck, a run of the mill current Chevy sedan is light years ahead of a 1963 Corvette Stingray or 1965 Mustang. I think any car has to be judged in the context of its time, and the impact it had there.
I cannot see the MKS stand out that much in a field of stellar sedan choices whether from the US, Germany, Scandinavia or Japan. But again, I'd love to buy you dinner as soon as I am shown to be wrong. Cuz I love Lincoln. Always have. But I don't see much there now that would draw me over the competition.
Rocky
Time will tell.
Rocky
Model-T."
Rocky, I love ya, but I can't let you get away with that. Because the same could be said about today's Impala - it's not much different than those cars of the 70's either. Other than an antique fuel injection system, the pushrods are still there. :P
"My father and I got into it over this. I told him I can go get a Cadillac CTS-V and beat every factory production car made in the 1960's muscle car era. I said I'd BET you everything I own and don't have to worry about losing it."
I'm on your father's side on this one. Have YOU ever ridden in a Pontiac Judge? A Challenger 440 six pack? Or a Galaxie 500 XL Interceptor? They were all scary fast.... and, now where near as stable as the CTS either, so the scary worked both ways.
I'm very glad the car speaks to the 20 and 30 somethings, but how many in that age bracket will be able to afford the car? Perhaps it'll translate into sales, and I really hope it does, by giving that age group something to aspire to and bring them into the showroom and into an MKZ, planning one day to get into the MKS. But for this buyer from a demographic who can afford one now, I'll have to like it better in person than I do based on the pictures.
However, I'll still strongly consider it if it's made here in the USA.
The instrument panel is very ordinary, in fact it's a typical dumb-down panel with idiot lights galore rather than guages. The center stack area looks nice, but it will probably change too. EXCEPT for the shifter - has anyone else counted the number of detents for the shifter? Guess what? Looks like another Ford vehicle with the "D-L" driver-no-control transmission gear shift. Who would buy a vehicle with so little driver control except a blue-hair? Why would a 'young' enthusuiast want such a car?
I do like the front styling, and the sides are OK. I've always wanted a car with a little Lincoln-star shaped "vent" that opens and closes on my front fenders (Not). The rear would be nice if it hadn't already been done before - several times. As it is, there are so many more possibilities that it is nothing short of disappointing what they are doing.
And if it's priced at $50K, you may be the only buyer for the thing. It should come in closer to $40K. That's a bit higher than the AWD S-80 it's based on.
And u can trash the early 60s Continental all u want. Not a single other auto enthusiast (I would venture to say) would agree with you. Those vehicles were ground-breaking at release. They remain perhaps the classiest hunks of metal ever to roll on 4 assembly-line-built wheels. The MKS in contrast is an Aurora/Acura clone built on the body of a Volvo. Not exactly ground-breaking.
0-60 for the Judge was 6.5 seconds. I can take a Toyota Camry and get those kind of numbers. To the best of my knowledge the fastest car back then from the factory
was a GT 500 Shelby and it ran 0-60 in 4.8-4.9 secs. I don't know if that counts as a production car or not. The only reason why y'all old tymers jock that era was because you guys jacked up the rear ends and put big tires on the back end. Hit the gas and smoke em' doesn't equal the #'s ya'll claim to get. :P I stand by my claim that today is much better than yesterday when it comes to technology and performance.
Rocky
Sure Ford, can still ruin this car but I'm being optomistic they won't.
Rocky
You may not like it. My mom doesn't care for it, however many of my friends young, middle, old, like the new modern styling. I agree they could ruin a nearly perfect interior. I personally like the suede, but wouldn't mind black leather dash coverings.
Rocky
The 60's Continentals are seen by most as understated but elegant, in both an eyecatching and tasteful way. Of course not everyone went for that look or goes for it now, but it certainly was a radical direction change for Lincoln and American sedans on the whole. The look wouldn't work for today without a lot of reinterpretation...perhaps sort of like how the 2009 Camaro relates to the 1969 without being retro (like the Challenger).
Although you like the MKS (a good thing), I think it is boring, like the styling of the Infiniti M is boring: pleasant enough, current, with even a few original flourishes, but nothing that will be seen around the world as a watershed model (either from a styling or engineering standpoint). BTW, I like the new S80 too.
If you define success as flash in the pan designs that are popular today and forgotten tomorrow, then yes they are successful. The 300 will sell good at first then fall off as people tire of the in-your-face styling and they'll have to start over with something totally new. Meanwhile, the 500 will soldier on with steady sales for years to come with just a few tweaks. When they freshen up the front of the 500 and add the 3.5L V6 I bet it easily outsells the 300.
Remember that there is an update scheduled soon for the 300 too. Chrysler, like Toyota, is not going to sit and let a successful design shrink on the vine for lack of updating. Ford has lost too much market share with their policy of "soldiering on" with the same design, tweaked or not. Doesn't matter if it is "in your face" or understated styling. In this marketplace, it needs to be changed on a regular cycle or people go elsewhere.
Rocky
Maybe you will like it better in person or perhaps the final production car will be more to your liking ? I just hope Lincoln doesn't ruin it for me. I'd buy it the way it is. I do beg for even more gadgets, because in my book the more the merrier.
Well on a better note I am looking forward to the Volvo S80, but feel this Lincoln, could be a better alternative though. The advantage for the S80, is I absolutely love the interior and think it's the best of any car under $150K. The Lexus LS runs a close second but I would never beable to afford one of those new. The MKS interior is something different and I like it alot also. It reminds me of a modern past, if that makes any since ?
Rocky
Most of us are hoping they'll abandon this silly scheme soon because it's confusing everyone. Even one of the engineers that worked on the MKZ and MKX got confused when I asked about the steering on the MKZ - he gave me the MKX answer then realized his mistake a few minutes later.
I like state of the art electronics too. Been buying PCs since 1988, so the computer age ain't exactly new to me. For Lincoln to offer a car without stability control--at the very least as an option--when Hyundai makes it standard equipment on lesser cars, is a grave omission. I had it on one of my vehicles almost 10 years ago, so I won't to go to fewer features now. And living in WI, I insist on ABS, traction control, auto brake force dist., and stability control on a new car. You can of course drive safely without any of these, but any little advantage when it is slippery--especially when the majority of drivers around you have no driving skills--is worth it to me.
Rocky
I've seen cars I didn't like in pictures, but when you see them in person I was like oh wow that looks much nicer in person, than in the pics.
Time will tell if Ford, keeps this thing a winner or ruins it. I'm hoping they won't ruin the whole car by letting the bean counters close to it. :sick: I'm optomistic enough that Ford won't let em' near it.
Rocky
The MKS will only sell if its priced within the competition. If its over 40K, they wont be selling many at all. Who really wants to drive a mediocre Lincoln anyways?
Rocky
As blah as I am about the MKS, I like its looks much more than that of the 300. I really hope the build and materials quality are better than the 300's.
I have two questions for ya, Rocky. Don't you think by the time you're old enough to die, we may have overcome that little problem too? Not saying anything, just asking your opinion, and I admire your optimism.
Second question is, and this one is the corker - if they make that MKS in Mexico, would you buy it, no matter how many gadgets it had? I mean even if it has bluetooth, hot and cooled seats, reverse camera, rain sensing wipers, parktronic, distronic cruise, and even what Lexus is introducing next year - auto-park. This gismo is supposed to park the car with sonar, once you get it close to a spot. The driver controls the speed, the car does the steering. Can't wait to see how that works.
Would you?