. . .plan one big thing for yourself very shortly after retirement. . .
Very interesting & helpful -- I'm getting close to retirement myself & found your post intriguing.
. . .does this mean there are almost NO actual salespeople in this forum anymore?
Another excellent point. IR44 & boomcheck are heard from regularly, but many of the old timers are no longer active. This is a one of the best boards on Edmunds, but it's pretty much been hijacked by many of us who are NOT salespeople -- nteresting that a board started to allow those who know the inside scoop attracted such a variety of folks.
Conjoined twins walk into a pub in Toronto and park themselves on a bar stool. One of them says to the bartender, "Don't mind us, we"re joined at the hip. I'm John, he's Jim. Two Molson Canadian beers please."
The bartender, feeling slightly awkward, tries to make polite conversation while pouring the beers. "Been on holiday yet, lads?"
"Off to England next month," says John. "We go to England every year, hire a car, and drive for miles, don't we, Jim?" Jim agrees.
"Ah, England!" says the bartender. "Wonderful Country ... the history,the beer, the culture..."
"Nah, we don't like that British crap," says John. "Hamburgers & Molson's beer, that's us, eh, Jim? And we can't stand the English; they're so arrogant and rude, not civil and polite like us Canadians."
"So why keep going to England?" asks the bartender.
special projects = super sized grinders. how long have you been considering retirement? in addition to geocaching, maybe you could do a little curb stoning after taking some detailing lessons from jmonroe or start up a little BHPH business.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Congratulations on the retirement ... I sincerely hope you enjoy it! I'm sure there are customers you will miss, and more that you won't.
I agree with the advice given above .. do something really nice for yourself.
When my dad retired 20 years ago, he walked away from his profession completely, even though there was ample opportunity to "consult" and make some serious $$$. He played a lot of golf - so much so that he ended up working at the local course so his rounds were free.
Anyway, I certainly hope that you stick around here and post from time to time, and I'm looking forward to some of the stories that you weren't able to share with us when you were working.
Was that the BMW wagon that couldn't even make it up a grass hill while the Range Rover went up right next to it?
verdugo....that's the one. Clarkson went on to say it rode poorly. You couldn't explore it's handling capabilities because it was so tall. He tried it in snow (this is an AWD GT, afterall) and couldn't get it to go. He railed against iDrive. I can't think of one good thing he said about it.
Craig....just curious about the dealer trade deal. Why did the couple want to negotiate another $500 or dealer add-ins just because it was a dealer trade? I've heard of people who think that they should get some $$$ because it will have a 100 miles or so on the dealer trade in transit. But, I'm wondering what their reasoning was.
I abhor grinding.....whether it's on the dealer's end, or not. In your case, if a deal is struck (with a handshake), then that should seal it.
Frankly, we all want to work with a dealer who's upfront about everything. But, as I'm sure you've seen over the years, when it comes time to ask the same from the customer, seems like it turns into a one way street.
This is the exact reason I have a preferred set of dealers (or dealership groups) I will do business with. The dealers who want to grind, I stay away from. The ones who spring the old "we forgot to add in this or that" when the deal has already been struck, irritate me even more.
We've seen a lot of sales people come and go around here over the years. Glad that LR and boom are still around. I guess "greenpea" went to his dealership's service dept. "Madmanmoo"....last I heard he was selling Porsche, but haven't heard a peep out of him in a good long while. Then, there was the dearly departed "mack".
I think I'd be willing to buy from any of the folks I've interfaced with here. All of you are the types of people I'd truly enjoy doing business with.
I agree GG. All does not seem right in this situation. To be intellectually challenged, I'm surprised that she took the initiative the check with other dealers. Perhaps another relative did this for her.
The most surprising thing to me is that she got through the credit report---subsidized housing and unemployed? It reminds me of the subprime mess that got this country in trouble. A finance company, rather than a bank, must have picked up this deal.
The salesman, and most certainly the general manager, had to know what they were doing here. It is one thing to take advantage of a normal customer, but this is unethical beyond all limits. I, too, agree that all must suffer in the blame. This situation is tragic for the customer and tragic for the dealership because it smacks at all decent car salesmen who try to assist customers and the customers perception of a car salesman.
Here is some new information from the local TV station. If you watch the video clip at the bottom (wait for the ad for Jersey Boys to finish), you will see how the customer looks like she is on heavy medication, and the car doesn't even have wheel discs.
A woman who claims she was confused and on medication when she was pressured into buying a car at an unfair price has earned a measure of justice after two employees were charged and fired for allegedly persuading her to make the dubious purchase.
"I felt cheated, and lied to and manipulated and conned and pressured," said Madeline Leonard, who walked into the Orangeville Mazda dealership to get her transmission fixed, and ended up signing papers for a 2010 Mazda 6.
Leonard has a number of health issues, including fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, depression and anxiety. She also has difficulty concentrating and says she was heavily medicated and in poor condition last December when she visited the dealership.
Before she knew it, she had signed off on a new car.
"He started pointing here and said initial this, initial that, sign here...I was on a lot of medication..."
By the time she left the lot she had agreed to a $45,000 list price, thousands in extras, plus an 8-year loan at 7.4% for a grand total of $66,000.
"It's killing me financially, it's bi-weekly payments, $319 every two weeks," she stresses.
Leonard is on disability and says she has an income of just over $1800/month.
The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council (OMVIC) is the body that regulates new and used registered car dealers. After an investigation they determined Leonard was overcharged for the car, which they determined is worth closer to $40,000.
They also found that it wasn't new, although the salesperson said it was. The OMVIC has since laid charges under the Consumer Protection Act against the dealership and two employees --- the salesman and the business manager.
"We felt that the circumstances were quite outrageous, the fees and things...and that's not something we are going to tolerate," said Laura Halbert, Director of Compliance, OMVIC.
The owner of the dealership, Sunny Bains, maintains he has taken measures to right the situation.
"They have both been fired," he said, referring to the salesman and business manager. "She has been contacted, and we are going to take the car back and pay her the money, whatever she paid."
Despite that action the charges are still in place, with the those implicated facing fines of up to $250,000 and even possible jail time.
I tuned in late today and find it difficult to add to the wonderful sentiments posted by our "family members". I'm going to be a little mushy, so don't get embarrassed. You don't know it, but I'm your biggest fan here. You gave me a lot of advice in the beginning---blunt with sincerity and respect. I knew pretty quickly that you had a big heart with a brain that made good sense. You have always had my highest respect and admiration. You and Mack were my heros. I've learned so much and I'm appreciative for it. Though I had no right to actually even be on this thread, you and the other salesmen have been so nice to tolerate me.
Never look back with any adverse feelings toward a few people. Always remember those that you helped, those who came back again and again, and those co-workers who loved you for the person that you are. Also, don't question your decision to retire. Someone told me years ago that I would know when it was time to retiree. One day I knew. I don't regret it and you won't either.
I agree with the others. Do one big thing now for yourself---a trip, a nice purchase, etc. Give yourself a reward for having worked hard. You so deserve it. Just one piece of advice: As you settle in to retirement, have a purpose for each day. Have a general outline for the upcoming week but leave time for relaxation and enjoyment. After five years, I even gave up my consulting work. It was a nice transition for me. Still, I am busy each day. I enjoy retirement.
Finally, keep your name here and post often. Your experience is invaluable to so many of us. Be happy and enjoy yourself. I was going to email you personally, but decided that I wanted to brag on you in public. You're a great guy.
In looking at the video it looks like this woman was looped out on her meds. Still, if she knows she becomes "confused" and "can't concentrate" on meds, you'd think she'd know better than going out in public. Dealership definitely took advantage though. Can't help but think the owner didn't know of such practices, surely not a first time.
The video said she had come into the dealership because of a bad transmission, not because of bad tires. I guess coming in for new tires and leaving with a new car makes for better press.
Also, the reporter says, "Mase-da": instead of "Maz-da". That's just plain "Kwazy". :lemon:
Thanks for the video. One thing struck me. Listening to her and watching her walk around, I would be concerned that this lady is on the highway with other drivers. If she can't concentrate and is on heavy medications, she is a danger to herself and others. I would hope that her family members would intervene.
Like you, I wonder what happened to the wheel discs. It's hard to believe that the dealership would have sold her the car without them. Perhaps they have been stolen since she purchased the car. All in all, it's a tragic situation.
Yeah, several things made me pause there. I can't imagine this woman being in shape to buy a car and not really to drive one either. This comes from someone who has a lot of common issues with her diagnoses.
The other thing is that poor car seems to be aging in dog years.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Back in the late 60's I was a teenager working in a gas station part time.
We had a custoemr who had an Edsel. It was green and withe and in excellent condition. He would bring it in for oil changes etc.
One day, I noticed he had a For Sale sign on it and I asked him what he wanted for it. 200.00! He lived by the high school and I would see it parked in his driveway with the For Sale sign for sevral months after that. I liked the car but I already had a car or two and, besides, it was an EDSEL!
This was in my hometown of San Pedro Californai.
Well, does anyone remember the movie American Grafitti?
My best friend's cousin and his wife wrote that movie. Willard Huych (sp?) and his wife Gloria Katz wrote that movie. If you "google" that name you'll see he worked with Geopge Lucas on some of his movies.
The Edsel that Cindy Williams drove was the Edsel from San Pedro!
Congratulations on your retirement. I have tried to think of something meaningful to say to add to what others have said. You may find that after a stressful job, you will do a lot of recovering for a few months, naps, lazy days, etc. Just enjoy what you're doing and do what you want. I don't recommend golf, because I found it very stressful--it's like a job in itself trying to become good at it. Look at what it did to Tiger. Well, maybe there would be some side benefits if someone is really good.
If you find you need a part time job to keep you busy, go for it. Or find another interesting occupation and earn a second retirement there for a few years.
Doh! I would have loved that Edsel. I have some unnatural fascination with the things. Came close to buying a 59 in the mid 70s. Had it been a 58 I'd have done it.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
verdugo....that's the one. Clarkson went on to say it rode poorly. You couldn't explore it's handling capabilities because it was so tall. He tried it in snow (this is an AWD GT, afterall) and couldn't get it to go. He railed against iDrive. I can't think of one good thing he said about it.
Yes, I saw the segment. For those of you who didn't watch it, Clarkson tried to find something goo to say about it. It was bad in crappy roads in England, let's go to Spain where they have better roads ... still bad. It's bad in the Northern hemisphere, let's go to the Souther Hemisphere. Nope, still bad. Bad on road, let's try off road, nope still bad. Let's try on snow, nope.
Edsel that Cindy Williams drove was the Edsel from San Pedro!
I don't know what is more amazing, Cindy Williams driving that Edsel or that you could have bought it for $200!
What I remember is every year when the new cars came out...all of them in September and October, our family would go to look at the new models. That was when the new cars changed every year. I remember seeing the Edsel in the showroom, and I really liked it. I wonder if it would have sold better if it had a different name? I guess the jokes about it looking like it was sucking a lemon didn't help.
When I was a kid, I could stand on a corner and tell you the make, year and model of almost every car that passed. Not now. They usually build them in five year cycles and because of safety requirements, they all look pretty much alike.
This "gentleman" was the type who would sell out a store for 25.00. This had nothing to do with the fact it was a dealer trade car. This guy was a cheap, sneaky mooch and nothing more.
They had agreed on a deal. It would have been a VERY skinny deal but we wanted to move a car. He had already spent hours in another store wasting the time of a salesperson driving cars etc before they told him they couldn't get a five speed.
Not all stores will do dealer trades. They are a PITA.
So, in a casual way, as they were walking to the Finance Office, he asked out of curosity where the car was coming from and the stuip salesperson told him.
I would have said..." I didn't ask" Which would have been a true statement. I wouldn't have had to ask because I knew!
As soon as he blew out of finance, we immediatly picked up his cellphone and called the other store. Te manager at the other store called up to make sure we had a deal. They were still going to let us have the car they had promised us.
Now, we COULD have screwed the buyer up by telling the other store that, yes, we needed the car.
At thiat point, we were so tired of this creep that we declined. We did let the other store know what they would be dealing with.
I just hope for their sake he took a shower and used some dedorant before he went there. He had horrible B.O.!
Anytine I find myself missing my job I know all I'll have to do is revisit the Prices Paid Forums here!
I had some of the BEST customers in the world and I had to deal with some of the worst too.
The would have had to do "in house" financing. No bank would over advance on a car like that. That's probably a 20-25,000 car and they sold it for 20K more than that? With her income??
That's probably a 20-25,000 car and they sold it for 20K more than that? With her income??
And that's probably why they are still going after that dealership regardless of their late effort to make things right. It could be that the authorities were just waiting for something that they could go after this dealership with because they probably have a file on them but were just 'safe enough' with other shady deals that they couldn't be prosecuted. Surely not the kind of store that any of us would deal with.
Now it sounds like the sales guys that were fired are in for more trouble. Not that they don't deserve it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
. . .plan one big thing for yourself very shortly after retirement. . .
Very interesting & helpful -- I'm getting close to retirement myself & found your post intriguing.
This was something that was mentioned in my pre-retirement classes (I retired at just shy of age 55, a bit more than 5 years ago.)
Work gives most people a reason to get up in the morning. Once you're retired, it's fine to sleep in a bit later, but small-scale, you still need a reason to structure your day somewhat, and large-scale, you need to find a purpose or activity that will engage you mentally and physically in order to disengage from your working life.
In my case, we began building our vacation home in North Carolina, and that took a lot of mental and physical energy and engagement. By the time it was finished, we were so looking forward to spending our summer there, the thought of work was far, far distant from my mind.
My mom did much the same thing when she retired from teaching. She knew that September would be tough, not seeing the new crop of little faces eager to learn. So she signed up to go on a group tour of Greece. This was sponsored by the local hospital, so it was all people from our home town, including several of her close friends.
By the time she got back in October, she was "over the hump" of missing seeing the new class, and was thinking about getting the house ready to have all the extended family over in November for Thanksgiving dinner, and so forth and so on. Easy segue to retired life, by having that one trip at the right time.
The key is you want to stay looking forward, not looking back. Stay engaged, try something new, temporarily change your surroundings in some way. It's a new phase of your life; make sure you fill it with some new activities. ------------- Lrguy, my apologies for not mentioning you as one of the salespeople still remaining! Sorry 'bout that.
Whatever happened to the other land rover guy? And to "cliffie," who sold Toyotas in Northern Virginia? I never met him, but we corresponded briefly when I was thinking about buying a Camry 10 years ago. (Bought my just recently disposed of Maxima at that time instead.) And to the couple who "met" here on edmunds and ended up getting married and having a baby? She had a Toyota Echo, if I'm remembering correctly, or some other small Toyota.
And "bigvwgirl,?" Anyone know what happened with her? I always enjoyed her posts.
Craig, you might find that link interesting. It popped up in yahoo when I went to open my mail; it's all about certain expenses that should shrink in retirement. A lot of that depends on your planning of course, like if you have your house paid off or not.
Jeep Jamboree is a thing that Chrysler Corporate puts on and cost money. It is like the Land Rover experience weekends that are held in Monterrey, Moab, Ashville and Montreal. Our cars, our trainers and a 5 star hotel to boot. I was talking about free dealership events that all dealers put on once per quarter. In addition, Denver is the home to the largest Land Rover club in the US. They offroad every weekend and have trips to Moab and other great places. Besides, I would much rather off road a Rover - more capability and comfort.
Some unexpected things happen when you retire. When working I used to hate getting up in the mornings, etc. I have been retired for about 5 years now and it is very difficult to sleep past 5 AM and it is not unusual to get up ever earlier. I love the early morning and coffee with the wife and our menagerie of pets.
Craig....I'm with you. There are just some people I won't do business with. Some of my former sales people used to brow beat me into trying to do business with companies and people who I just didn't trust. Yeah....we could do a deal. But, they always wanted to extend our payment terms, or look for the minutest loopholes in our contract to "stick it to us".
I still believe that any business transaction....even buying a car, is best when it's a "win-win" scenario. The buyer is happy. The seller is happy.
I've made no bones that I try to do skinny deals. But, if I have to go through all sorts of gyrations to get it, I'd rather just walk out of the dealership and look elsewhere.
One of my favorite sayings...."time heals all wounds, or time wounds all heels."
driver.....again, I don't absolve the dealership in your post. If they've got some sort of "sub prime" lender willing to take a risk on someone with a fixed income, it must be something they do with at least a bit of regularity.
However, I don't care how many meds you're on, at some point you know you're buying a new car. She had the wherewithal to drive to the dealership to get her transmission checked, but didn't have the sense to know she was signing papers for a new car? Somewhere along the line I can't wrap my arms around the fact that someone doesn't know that a "transmission check", or buying new tires equates to buying a new car, without the buyer knowing what's going on.
Is it possible that someone told this woman that she was actually getting her transmission fixed, and that's what she was signing papers for? But, it was actually to buy a new car? If so, that's despicable and at the very least fraudulent.
Or, was she taken with the idea of getting a new car. And, once the payment book was delivered, realized she really couldn't afford one?
I do have to wonder how these "sub prime" lenders out there actually make any money, however.....loaning money to people who can't afford the note. The repo rate has to be extremely high. Even at higher interest rates, what do those matter if the person doesn't pay?
Congrats on your retirement Craig. Your posts even seem a bit more upbeat. By the way, stay away from Vegas -- you'll never get ahead on the penny slots. :P
We’ve all seen someone do something like this.
Awhile back I commented about the young ladies at our place that drive up scale cars. This tale is about one of the many that drive a BMW. This young lady in particular drives a 328i and used to always park her car at an angle that took up more than one parking spot. This is very annoying in the company parking lot since they have hired many new employees lately and parking spaces are at a premium right now (there are plans to increase the lot size very soon). Anyway, this young lady has been told not to do this and now she parks her car at a steep angle within the parking lines and because of this people don’t want to park on either side of her because they don’t want to get their car hit if she can’t navigate too well while trying to get her car out. In effect, she has now “legally” parked her car accomplishing what she wanted anyway.
Last Friday two guys that work in the shop area that drive trucks (one is an old farm vehicle, the other is just a 10 year old beat-up pickup truck) decided to park very close to each line in the spots on each side of this young ladies car. They were just inches away from the lines in their parking spots. You guessed it; she leaves early (about 2:15 to get an early start for the week end) and she can’t get out. She goes back into the building and has them announce over the PA system a message requesting that the drivers of these vehicles please remove them because they are parked “illegally” :surprise: and are blocking another employees car.
I don’t know what the reaction was in other parts of the building but in the area where I am there was a lot of laughter. Many comments too like, “it’s about time who does she think she is did she think she could get away with this forever?” etc. etc. The guys that had the trucks ignored the plea. As the story goes, about an hour later the second level manager for these two guys said something like, “I don’t blame you for what you did. We’d all like to have done it but now the General Manager has asked me to talk to you guys about moving your trucks. The guard in the lobby is tired of hearing her crying (literally) about wanting to get her car out”.
Like I said, this was on Friday so we’ll all have to see what happens tomorrow.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Kind of a segue into what we've been talking about.....this happened when I was really young. But, it still sticks into my memory.
I've mentioned in these threads before that my late Father's family was straight off the boat from the southern part of Italy. One of the requirements to be able to come to the U.S. at the time was they had to be sponsored by another family to gain entrance into the country. That meant that the ones trying to gain entrance to the U.S. had to have a place to live (usually with family members already here). And, that they had to have proof that they had employment lined up.
Some of my grandfather's family were already here. They secured jobs with the B&O railroad, and had secured a job for my grandfather there. My grandmother was a seamstress and actually made men's suits out of the house they shared with another relative. So, they had a place to live, and employment.
Anyway, I also mentioned that my late Father (as well as his family) eventually became U.S. citizens. His older brother worked at B&O for awhile, but secured a job at a local GM plant (now defunct Fisher Body plant). He worked there for 40 years as a machine repairman until he retired back in the '70s.
Having fled fascism in Italy, ahaving lived through the Great Depression, living in cramped houses, in the poorest of places with other family members, my Father and my Uncle were extremely frugal. They eventually made a great life for themselves and their families (me included). But, they never forgot the very lean years.
My Father threw a big party for my Uncle upon his retirement. Plenty of wine (home made, of course), plenty of Italian delicacies and food. I even remember my Father hired an Italian band (with the requisite accordion player as part of it). It was a great time. And, I'd say there were plenty of hangovers the next day.
My sisters and I were helping to clean up from the party the next day when my Uncle burst into the house. He said he was in BIG TROUBLE. As my Father usually did, he sat my uncle down at our kitchen table (which was where all family business was discussed, good and bad).
Apparently, my Uncle had continued his partying well after the party we had for him was over. At some point the next day, still drunk, he thought it would be a good idea that he reward himself with a new car.....a Buick Electra 225 (which was the very top of the line Buick you could buy in those days). Understand that given the family's frugality, my Uncle had never bought anything but the cheapest base Chevy up until that point. At the time, I think he had a Chevy II with no options.
Well, upon finally making it home, after all the partying, and after wards, being out all night carousing, and buying a car that probably cost 3x what he ever spent on any car before, his wife (my Aunt) was livid. She kicked him out of the house. And, he drove that new Buick to our house to see if my Father could smooth things over.
It wasn't that my Uncle couldn't afford the Buick....he could have afforded a top line Cadillac if he wanted. It wasn't in keeping with the frugality that he had embedded upon his family for decades. It was viewed as an over the top extravagance.
This was one of those family feuds that a young person like me didn't want to miss. I don't think I had ever seen my Father laugh as heartily as he did upon my Uncle telling him what had happened. But, as a good brother, he said he's try to help. I still remember my Father telling my Mother and my Sisters...."this should be fun", as he walked out the door with my Uncle to be the peace maker. Ordinarily, this would be an encounter only adults would witness, but for some reason I ran out to look at this new Buick (I remember it being leather lined, chrome laden, "arrest me red") and jumped in the back seat. My Father let me tag along for the ride. He grabbed the keys from my Uncle (who absolutely reeked, and looked even worse).
We drove to my Uncle's house. My Uncle tried to unlock the door, but my Aunt had propped something against it so he still couldn't get in. All the while, Italian curse words emanated from the house, loud enough that they could be heard from the back seat of that Buick, where I was secure. My Father, in fluent Italian, still laughing, tried to reason with my Aunt, to no avail.
Failing that, we headed to the dealership where my Uncle had bought the car. My Father tried to reason with whomever was in charge. I recall how the protests about my Uncle being drunk when he bought it, how they "took" him on his trade, etc. But, the "man-in-charge" (which is what my Father called him) said a deal was a deal. He showed my Father my Uncle's signature on the paperwork. My Father even protested that there's no way it was my Uncle's signature (as it was drunkenly illegible). No go.
We drove back to our house. My Uncle spent the night there, while my Mother finally got my Aunt to calm down via a long phone call.
Things settled down. My Uncle eventually sobered up. I remember him sleeping in our basement for what seemed like 24 hours straight.
My Uncle kept that car for what seemed like a decade. Every time I saw it, it reminded me of that retirement fiasco. What seemed like a tragedy eventually became a story that was told over and over again over the years at family get-togethers that delighted me every time it was told.
I am a little late to the party here--but first- Good luck on your retirement.. And thanks a lot for contributing to these forums. I have been here since 2008 but you have been here before 2000 and have contributed so much. It`s all the more amazing that you have been a very successful car salesperson for such a long time in an industry with such a high turnover and I really respect you for that. The days of long car salesmen appear to be over. Hence all the more reason to always stick to the long time salesperson with whom you have contact. A longtime car salesman is like a real gem nowadays :shades:
What I like about your posts is that they all are true hard real world facts and no candy coating. You say it as it is and dont mince the facts. And even though some buyers may not like the bad news-you still said it as that was the fact.. :P
But my enduring image of you will always be an incident that occurred in this thread. I think a year back, Tidester or Kirstie asked for help in this sales frontlines thread from car salesfolks for a guy in the Car leasing forum who was having a serious problem on his lease. And your one line reply showed your very helpful nature -- " I`ll be right there ". That 1 line said a lot about you . :shades:
Thanks and no excuse this time for not posting all your sales stories you have had over the years. We are all waiting for those !!!
and now she parks her car at a steep angle within the parking lines
Whenever I see people park like that I always wish I could drive a big beatup old pickup truck and park it 2 inches away from the drivers door on their car....so they have to crawl in from the right hand side.
And usually, there are much better cars around, so I don't know why these people think they are so special.
Maybe putting a note on their windshield would help, "I am looking for a beater to use as a 2nd car. Will give you $500 cash for your car. Call ---------------."
that a "transmission check", or buying new tires equates to buying a new car, without the buyer knowing what's going on.
GG, I agree with your principles of selling. The sale should be good for both parties. I don't think you would have taken advantage of a lady who doesn't really seem to be entirely with it.
These extraordinary steps were taken: competition bureau became involved the salesmen were fined $100k each, the manager of the dealership fired the salesmen the dealer will take back the car the dealer has had several bad complaints before and is on the bad list with the BBB
These steps would only be taken if there was really something wrong. Most people would not get a refund if this happened, so it must be obvious these guys really took advantage of this woman.
del - isell goes back further than that. When I first came on here in 1996 or 97 he was already here! They changed the software in 2000 so that's as far back as anyone goes but some of us really date further back.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Comments
Very interesting & helpful -- I'm getting close to retirement myself & found your post intriguing.
. . .does this mean there are almost NO actual salespeople in this forum anymore?
Another excellent point. IR44 & boomcheck are heard from regularly, but many of the old timers are no longer active. This is a one of the best boards on Edmunds, but it's pretty much been hijacked by many of us who are NOT salespeople -- nteresting that a board started to allow those who know the inside scoop attracted such a variety of folks.
Had I known the stock market was about to dump I probably would have stayed longer.
They will probably call on me for special projects from time to time and that will probably be a good thing.
Conjoined twins walk into a pub in Toronto and park themselves on a bar
stool. One of them says to the bartender, "Don't mind us, we"re joined at
the hip. I'm John, he's Jim. Two Molson Canadian beers please."
The bartender, feeling slightly awkward, tries to make polite conversation
while pouring the beers. "Been on holiday yet, lads?"
"Off to England next month," says John. "We go to England every year, hire
a car, and drive for miles, don't we, Jim?" Jim agrees.
"Ah, England!" says the bartender. "Wonderful Country ... the history,the
beer, the culture..."
"Nah, we don't like that British crap," says John. "Hamburgers & Molson's
beer, that's us, eh, Jim? And we can't stand the English; they're so
arrogant and rude, not civil and polite like us Canadians."
"So why keep going to England?" asks the bartender.
"It's the only chance Jim gets to drive..
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
how long have you been considering retirement?
in addition to geocaching, maybe you could do a little curb stoning after taking some detailing lessons from jmonroe or start up a little BHPH business.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
First Edsel TV Commercial
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree with the advice given above .. do something really nice for yourself.
When my dad retired 20 years ago, he walked away from his profession completely, even though there was ample opportunity to "consult" and make some serious $$$. He played a lot of golf - so much so that he ended up working at the local course so his rounds were free.
Anyway, I certainly hope that you stick around here and post from time to time, and I'm looking forward to some of the stories that you weren't able to share with us when you were working.
verdugo....that's the one. Clarkson went on to say it rode poorly. You couldn't explore it's handling capabilities because it was so tall. He tried it in snow (this is an AWD GT, afterall) and couldn't get it to go. He railed against iDrive. I can't think of one good thing he said about it.
I abhor grinding.....whether it's on the dealer's end, or not. In your case, if a deal is struck (with a handshake), then that should seal it.
Frankly, we all want to work with a dealer who's upfront about everything. But, as I'm sure you've seen over the years, when it comes time to ask the same from the customer, seems like it turns into a one way street.
This is the exact reason I have a preferred set of dealers (or dealership groups) I will do business with. The dealers who want to grind, I stay away from. The ones who spring the old "we forgot to add in this or that" when the deal has already been struck, irritate me even more.
We've seen a lot of sales people come and go around here over the years. Glad that LR and boom are still around. I guess "greenpea" went to his dealership's service dept. "Madmanmoo"....last I heard he was selling Porsche, but haven't heard a peep out of him in a good long while. Then, there was the dearly departed "mack".
I think I'd be willing to buy from any of the folks I've interfaced with here. All of you are the types of people I'd truly enjoy doing business with.
The most surprising thing to me is that she got through the credit report---subsidized housing and unemployed? It reminds me of the subprime mess that got this country in trouble. A finance company, rather than a bank, must have picked up this deal.
The salesman, and most certainly the general manager, had to know what they were doing here. It is one thing to take advantage of a normal customer, but this is unethical beyond all limits. I, too, agree that all must suffer in the blame. This situation is tragic for the customer and tragic for the dealership because it smacks at all decent car salesmen who try to assist customers and the customers perception of a car salesman.
Richard
A woman who claims she was confused and on medication when she was pressured into buying a car at an unfair price has earned a measure of justice after two employees were charged and fired for allegedly persuading her to make the dubious purchase.
"I felt cheated, and lied to and manipulated and conned and pressured," said Madeline Leonard, who walked into the Orangeville Mazda dealership to get her transmission fixed, and ended up signing papers for a 2010 Mazda 6.
Leonard has a number of health issues, including fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, depression and anxiety. She also has difficulty concentrating and says she was heavily medicated and in poor condition last December when she visited the dealership.
Before she knew it, she had signed off on a new car.
"He started pointing here and said initial this, initial that, sign here...I was on a lot of medication..."
By the time she left the lot she had agreed to a $45,000 list price, thousands in extras, plus an 8-year loan at 7.4% for a grand total of $66,000.
"It's killing me financially, it's bi-weekly payments, $319 every two weeks," she stresses.
Leonard is on disability and says she has an income of just over $1800/month.
The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council (OMVIC) is the body that regulates new and used registered car dealers. After an investigation they determined Leonard was overcharged for the car, which they determined is worth closer to $40,000.
They also found that it wasn't new, although the salesperson said it was. The OMVIC has since laid charges under the Consumer Protection Act against the dealership and two employees --- the salesman and the business manager.
"We felt that the circumstances were quite outrageous, the fees and things...and that's not something we are going to tolerate," said Laura Halbert, Director of Compliance, OMVIC.
The owner of the dealership, Sunny Bains, maintains he has taken measures to right the situation.
"They have both been fired," he said, referring to the salesman and business manager. "She has been contacted, and we are going to take the car back and pay her the money, whatever she paid."
Despite that action the charges are still in place, with the those implicated facing fines of up to $250,000 and even possible jail time.
Woman hi-pressured into buying Mazda
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Never look back with any adverse feelings toward a few people. Always remember those that you helped, those who came back again and again, and those co-workers who loved you for the person that you are. Also, don't question your decision to retire. Someone told me years ago that I would know when it was time to retiree. One day I knew. I don't regret it and you won't either.
I agree with the others. Do one big thing now for yourself---a trip, a nice purchase, etc. Give yourself a reward for having worked hard. You so deserve it. Just one piece of advice: As you settle in to retirement, have a purpose for each day. Have a general outline for the upcoming week but leave time for relaxation and enjoyment. After five years, I even gave up my consulting work. It was a nice transition for me. Still, I am busy each day. I enjoy retirement.
Finally, keep your name here and post often. Your experience is invaluable to so many of us. Be happy and enjoy yourself. I was going to email you personally, but decided that I wanted to brag on you in public. You're a great guy.
Best,
Richard
They brought me in to close the tough deals and I was good at it but seriously, I wanted to take a shower after dealing with some of these people.
The video said she had come into the dealership because of a bad transmission, not because of bad tires. I guess coming in for new tires and leaving with a new car makes for better press.
Also, the reporter says, "Mase-da": instead of "Maz-da". That's just plain "Kwazy". :lemon:
We should all meet in Las Vegas!
Like you, I wonder what happened to the wheel discs. It's hard to believe that the dealership would have sold her the car without them. Perhaps they have been stolen since she purchased the car. All in all, it's a tragic situation.
Richard
The last car I sold was a used 2003 Honda Pilot to a family I had sold cars to before.
The other thing is that poor car seems to be aging in dog years.
Back in the late 60's I was a teenager working in a gas station part time.
We had a custoemr who had an Edsel. It was green and withe and in excellent condition. He would bring it in for oil changes etc.
One day, I noticed he had a For Sale sign on it and I asked him what he wanted for it. 200.00! He lived by the high school and I would see it parked in his driveway with the For Sale sign for sevral months after that. I liked the car but I already had a car or two and, besides, it was an EDSEL!
This was in my hometown of San Pedro Californai.
Well, does anyone remember the movie American Grafitti?
My best friend's cousin and his wife wrote that movie. Willard Huych (sp?) and his wife Gloria Katz wrote that movie. If you "google" that name you'll see he worked with Geopge Lucas on some of his movies.
The Edsel that Cindy Williams drove was the Edsel from San Pedro!
If you find you need a part time job to keep you busy, go for it. Or find another interesting occupation and earn a second retirement there for a few years.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You don't have to pay a lot for that. Just google Jeep Jamboree.
Yes, I saw the segment. For those of you who didn't watch it, Clarkson tried to find something goo to say about it. It was bad in crappy roads in England, let's go to Spain where they have better roads ... still bad. It's bad in the Northern hemisphere, let's go to the Souther Hemisphere. Nope, still bad. Bad on road, let's try off road, nope still bad. Let's try on snow, nope.
It was very funny.
Not only that, but she is *driving*? She should have her license revoked before she causes an accident. (or what Richard and Fezo said)
Richard
As bad shape as she is in, I have seen a lot worse drivers getting out of their cars in Florida!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't know what is more amazing, Cindy Williams driving that Edsel or that you could have bought it for $200!
What I remember is every year when the new cars came out...all of them in September and October, our family would go to look at the new models. That was when the new cars changed every year. I remember seeing the Edsel in the showroom, and I really liked it. I wonder if it would have sold better if it had a different name? I guess the jokes about it looking like it was sucking a lemon didn't help.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This "gentleman" was the type who would sell out a store for 25.00. This had nothing to do with the fact it was a dealer trade car. This guy was a cheap, sneaky mooch and nothing more.
They had agreed on a deal. It would have been a VERY skinny deal but we wanted to move a car. He had already spent hours in another store wasting the time of a salesperson driving cars etc before they told him they couldn't get a five speed.
Not all stores will do dealer trades. They are a PITA.
So, in a casual way, as they were walking to the Finance Office, he asked out of curosity where the car was coming from and the stuip salesperson told him.
I would have said..." I didn't ask" Which would have been a true statement. I wouldn't have had to ask because I knew!
As soon as he blew out of finance, we immediatly picked up his cellphone and called the other store. Te manager at the other store called up to make sure we had a deal. They were still going to let us have the car they had promised us.
Now, we COULD have screwed the buyer up by telling the other store that, yes, we needed the car.
At thiat point, we were so tired of this creep that we declined. We did let the other store know what they would be dealing with.
I just hope for their sake he took a shower and used some dedorant before he went there. He had horrible B.O.!
Anytine I find myself missing my job I know all I'll have to do is revisit the Prices Paid Forums here!
I had some of the BEST customers in the world and I had to deal with some of the worst too.
Pretty bad!
And that's probably why they are still going after that dealership regardless of their late effort to make things right. It could be that the authorities were just waiting for something that they could go after this dealership with because they probably have a file on them but were just 'safe enough' with other shady deals that they couldn't be prosecuted. Surely not the kind of store that any of us would deal with.
Now it sounds like the sales guys that were fired are in for more trouble. Not that they don't deserve it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Very interesting & helpful -- I'm getting close to retirement myself & found your post intriguing.
This was something that was mentioned in my pre-retirement classes (I retired at just shy of age 55, a bit more than 5 years ago.)
Work gives most people a reason to get up in the morning. Once you're retired, it's fine to sleep in a bit later, but small-scale, you still need a reason to structure your day somewhat, and large-scale, you need to find a purpose or activity that will engage you mentally and physically in order to disengage from your working life.
In my case, we began building our vacation home in North Carolina, and that took a lot of mental and physical energy and engagement. By the time it was finished, we were so looking forward to spending our summer there, the thought of work was far, far distant from my mind.
My mom did much the same thing when she retired from teaching. She knew that September would be tough, not seeing the new crop of little faces eager to learn. So she signed up to go on a group tour of Greece. This was sponsored by the local hospital, so it was all people from our home town, including several of her close friends.
By the time she got back in October, she was "over the hump" of missing seeing the new class, and was thinking about getting the house ready to have all the extended family over in November for Thanksgiving dinner, and so forth and so on. Easy segue to retired life, by having that one trip at the right time.
The key is you want to stay looking forward, not looking back. Stay engaged, try something new, temporarily change your surroundings in some way. It's a new phase of your life; make sure you fill it with some new activities.
-------------
Lrguy, my apologies for not mentioning you as one of the salespeople still remaining! Sorry 'bout that.
Whatever happened to the other land rover guy? And to "cliffie," who sold Toyotas in Northern Virginia? I never met him, but we corresponded briefly when I was thinking about buying a Camry 10 years ago. (Bought my just recently disposed of Maxima at that time instead.) And to the couple who "met" here on edmunds and ended up getting married and having a baby? She had a Toyota Echo, if I'm remembering correctly, or some other small Toyota.
And "bigvwgirl,?" Anyone know what happened with her? I always enjoyed her posts.
Time does move on, doesn't it.
Forgot to mention:
"http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-109474-5132-5-7-expenses-you-ca- n-ditch-in-retirement?ywaad=ad0035"
Craig, you might find that link interesting. It popped up in yahoo when I went to open my mail; it's all about certain expenses that should shrink in retirement. A lot of that depends on your planning of course, like if you have your house paid off or not.
Jeep Jamboree is a thing that Chrysler Corporate puts on and cost money. It is like the Land Rover experience weekends that are held in Monterrey, Moab, Ashville and Montreal. Our cars, our trainers and a 5 star hotel to boot. I was talking about free dealership events that all dealers put on once per quarter. In addition, Denver is the home to the largest Land Rover club in the US. They offroad every weekend and have trips to Moab and other great places. Besides, I would much rather off road a Rover - more capability and comfort.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Hard to believe that some of the best ideas and greatest support has come from my friends on this forum.
I will heed your advise. Looking back seems to be a problem for me.
I still believe that any business transaction....even buying a car, is best when it's a "win-win" scenario. The buyer is happy. The seller is happy.
I've made no bones that I try to do skinny deals. But, if I have to go through all sorts of gyrations to get it, I'd rather just walk out of the dealership and look elsewhere.
One of my favorite sayings...."time heals all wounds, or time wounds all heels."
driver.....again, I don't absolve the dealership in your post. If they've got some sort of "sub prime" lender willing to take a risk on someone with a fixed income, it must be something they do with at least a bit of regularity.
However, I don't care how many meds you're on, at some point you know you're buying a new car. She had the wherewithal to drive to the dealership to get her transmission checked, but didn't have the sense to know she was signing papers for a new car? Somewhere along the line I can't wrap my arms around the fact that someone doesn't know that a "transmission check", or buying new tires equates to buying a new car, without the buyer knowing what's going on.
Is it possible that someone told this woman that she was actually getting her transmission fixed, and that's what she was signing papers for? But, it was actually to buy a new car? If so, that's despicable and at the very least fraudulent.
Or, was she taken with the idea of getting a new car. And, once the payment book was delivered, realized she really couldn't afford one?
I do have to wonder how these "sub prime" lenders out there actually make any money, however.....loaning money to people who can't afford the note. The repo rate has to be extremely high. Even at higher interest rates, what do those matter if the person doesn't pay?
Awhile back I commented about the young ladies at our place that drive up scale cars. This tale is about one of the many that drive a BMW. This young lady in particular drives a 328i and used to always park her car at an angle that took up more than one parking spot. This is very annoying in the company parking lot since they have hired many new employees lately and parking spaces are at a premium right now (there are plans to increase the lot size very soon). Anyway, this young lady has been told not to do this and now she parks her car at a steep angle within the parking lines and because of this people don’t want to park on either side of her because they don’t want to get their car hit if she can’t navigate too well while trying to get her car out. In effect, she has now “legally” parked her car accomplishing what she wanted anyway.
Last Friday two guys that work in the shop area that drive trucks (one is an old farm vehicle, the other is just a 10 year old beat-up pickup truck) decided to park very close to each line in the spots on each side of this young ladies car. They were just inches away from the lines in their parking spots. You guessed it; she leaves early (about 2:15 to get an early start for the week end) and she can’t get out. She goes back into the building and has them announce over the PA system a message requesting that the drivers of these vehicles please remove them because they are parked “illegally” :surprise: and are blocking another employees car.
I don’t know what the reaction was in other parts of the building but in the area where I am there was a lot of laughter. Many comments too like, “it’s about time who does she think she is did she think she could get away with this forever?” etc. etc. The guys that had the trucks ignored the plea. As the story goes, about an hour later the second level manager for these two guys said something like, “I don’t blame you for what you did. We’d all like to have done it but now the General Manager has asked me to talk to you guys about moving your trucks. The guard in the lobby is tired of hearing her crying (literally) about wanting to get her car out”.
Like I said, this was on Friday so we’ll all have to see what happens tomorrow.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I hope someone has told her to park her car correctly or it will be "towed." :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've mentioned in these threads before that my late Father's family was straight off the boat from the southern part of Italy. One of the requirements to be able to come to the U.S. at the time was they had to be sponsored by another family to gain entrance into the country. That meant that the ones trying to gain entrance to the U.S. had to have a place to live (usually with family members already here). And, that they had to have proof that they had employment lined up.
Some of my grandfather's family were already here. They secured jobs with the B&O railroad, and had secured a job for my grandfather there. My grandmother was a seamstress and actually made men's suits out of the house they shared with another relative. So, they had a place to live, and employment.
Anyway, I also mentioned that my late Father (as well as his family) eventually became U.S. citizens. His older brother worked at B&O for awhile, but secured a job at a local GM plant (now defunct Fisher Body plant). He worked there for 40 years as a machine repairman until he retired back in the '70s.
Having fled fascism in Italy, ahaving lived through the Great Depression, living in cramped houses, in the poorest of places with other family members, my Father and my Uncle were extremely frugal. They eventually made a great life for themselves and their families (me included). But, they never forgot the very lean years.
My Father threw a big party for my Uncle upon his retirement. Plenty of wine (home made, of course), plenty of Italian delicacies and food. I even remember my Father hired an Italian band (with the requisite accordion player as part of it). It was a great time. And, I'd say there were plenty of hangovers the next day.
My sisters and I were helping to clean up from the party the next day when my Uncle burst into the house. He said he was in BIG TROUBLE. As my Father usually did, he sat my uncle down at our kitchen table (which was where all family business was discussed, good and bad).
Apparently, my Uncle had continued his partying well after the party we had for him was over. At some point the next day, still drunk, he thought it would be a good idea that he reward himself with a new car.....a Buick Electra 225 (which was the very top of the line Buick you could buy in those days). Understand that given the family's frugality, my Uncle had never bought anything but the cheapest base Chevy up until that point. At the time, I think he had a Chevy II with no options.
Well, upon finally making it home, after all the partying, and after wards, being out all night carousing, and buying a car that probably cost 3x what he ever spent on any car before, his wife (my Aunt) was livid. She kicked him out of the house. And, he drove that new Buick to our house to see if my Father could smooth things over.
It wasn't that my Uncle couldn't afford the Buick....he could have afforded a top line Cadillac if he wanted. It wasn't in keeping with the frugality that he had embedded upon his family for decades. It was viewed as an over the top extravagance.
This was one of those family feuds that a young person like me didn't want to miss. I don't think I had ever seen my Father laugh as heartily as he did upon my Uncle telling him what had happened. But, as a good brother, he said he's try to help. I still remember my Father telling my Mother and my Sisters...."this should be fun", as he walked out the door with my Uncle to be the peace maker. Ordinarily, this would be an encounter only adults would witness, but for some reason I ran out to look at this new Buick (I remember it being leather lined, chrome laden, "arrest me red") and jumped in the back seat. My Father let me tag along for the ride. He grabbed the keys from my Uncle (who absolutely reeked, and looked even worse).
We drove to my Uncle's house. My Uncle tried to unlock the door, but my Aunt had propped something against it so he still couldn't get in. All the while, Italian curse words emanated from the house, loud enough that they could be heard from the back seat of that Buick, where I was secure. My Father, in fluent Italian, still laughing, tried to reason with my Aunt, to no avail.
Failing that, we headed to the dealership where my Uncle had bought the car. My Father tried to reason with whomever was in charge. I recall how the protests about my Uncle being drunk when he bought it, how they "took" him on his trade, etc. But, the "man-in-charge" (which is what my Father called him) said a deal was a deal. He showed my Father my Uncle's signature on the paperwork. My Father even protested that there's no way it was my Uncle's signature (as it was drunkenly illegible). No go.
We drove back to our house. My Uncle spent the night there, while my Mother finally got my Aunt to calm down via a long phone call.
Things settled down. My Uncle eventually sobered up. I remember him sleeping in our basement for what seemed like 24 hours straight.
My Uncle kept that car for what seemed like a decade. Every time I saw it, it reminded me of that retirement fiasco. What seemed like a tragedy eventually became a story that was told over and over again over the years at family get-togethers that delighted me every time it was told.
I'll def. give you the comfort, but not the capability. A Wrangler Rubicon is just as/more capable than a Land Rover. :shades:
Richard
Richard
What I like about your posts is that they all are true hard real world facts and no candy coating. You say it as it is and dont mince the facts. And even though some buyers may not like the bad news-you still said it as that was the fact.. :P
But my enduring image of you will always be an incident that occurred in this thread. I think a year back, Tidester or Kirstie asked for help in this sales frontlines thread from car salesfolks for a guy in the Car leasing forum who was having a serious problem on his lease. And your one line reply showed your very helpful nature -- " I`ll be right there ". That 1 line said a lot about you . :shades:
Thanks and no excuse this time for not posting all your sales stories you have had over the years. We are all waiting for those !!!
Whenever I see people park like that I always wish I could drive a big beatup old pickup truck and park it 2 inches away from the drivers door on their car....so they have to crawl in from the right hand side.
And usually, there are much better cars around, so I don't know why these people think they are so special.
Maybe putting a note on their windshield would help, "I am looking for a beater to use as a 2nd car. Will give you $500 cash for your car. Call ---------------."
Can't wait to hear chapter 2.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG, I agree with your principles of selling. The sale should be good for both parties. I don't think you would have taken advantage of a lady who doesn't really seem to be entirely with it.
These extraordinary steps were taken:
competition bureau became involved
the salesmen were fined $100k each,
the manager of the dealership fired the salesmen
the dealer will take back the car
the dealer has had several bad complaints before and is on the bad list with the BBB
These steps would only be taken if there was really something wrong. Most people would not get a refund if this happened, so it must be obvious these guys really took advantage of this woman.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250