If you read the articles, the ONLY supplier went out of business. Apparently this was a GM specific design with one vendor. Compared to the cost, minimal importance of the feature to most people, and the fact it really was not installed on a large percentage of vehicles and the small failure rate it really is not a bad decision.
So with the recalls the past few weeks (if recalls are an issue) that would leave at least GM, Ford, Honda and Toyota out of the equation. I am sure there are others.
a few years back (when I had my Quest) we were up in the great white north (well, to me. Up past albany) at Christmas. Happened to be a particularly cold snap, even for there. Pretty sure it went below 0 overnight.
Well, I had left a full can (unopened) of soda (probably diet Dr. P) in the cup holder. Know what happens if that gets too cold? Yup. Kaboomy. Had soda slush all over the dash, and up on the headliner.
The only thing that saved us is I found it early the next day, before the sun really started to heat up the car. So, I was able to take the still frozen slush and scrape the bulk of it out. Pretty sure there were not even any stains left.
If that car had sat for a couple of hours in the sun, I am sure it would have thawed, and I would have had stains that may never have some out.
I had the easiest car deal ever yesterday. Customer called up - wanted a special edition Sport and said he would not pay over MSRP. This car is a MSRP car but he moved from California where MSRP +++ is not an obstacle. I said we do not charge above, did clear bra at cost and delivered the car. Exciting, no?
Ever heard of the book "Don't sweat the small stuff"?
Being in the book business I have heard of that book.
Ever heard of the book, "If you can't get the Small Things Right, Good Luck with the Bigger Things". I haven't either, but GM could learn a valuable lesson from it.
One of our employees was saying he had about a 1990 Pontiac that rusted out after one year. GM wouldn't help him. A friend had a Nova that got a trunk full of water whenever it rained. GM said, "Well, how often does it rain?" Both have never bought a GM since. All I am saying is, I think you have to perform better than expected in today's competitive marketplace. It's a small item, not usefull to many, but the incident just doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the manufacturer.
If you want to know how much trouble this problem caused GM see this article from Motortrend: * * * * *
The Curse of the Heated Windshield Washer -- it's not a B horror flick, though it probably feels like one over at GM HQ. Nearly two years ago, the company recalled close to one million vehicles to repair the system and now it's recalling them again as even repaired vehicles begin to catch fire.
It all began with a faulty circuit board, one of dozens or even hundreds that can be found on any new vehicle. This one had a penchant for short-circuiting and overloading the ground wire, causing the wire's insulation to melt and expose the bare wire, which could then ignite any flammable material nearby. Engine compartment fires eventually led to the recall of 31 GM models, most of them SUVs.
GM's solution to this crisis? Install a new wiring harness for the "HotShot" heated windshield washer fluid system that contained an in-line fuse that would, ideally, blow in the event of a short-circuit and prevent the ground wire from overloading and causing a fire. Unfortunately, that didn't address the root problem of the faulty circuit board, nor did it prove a faultless repair.
I had that happen with a can of Coke, but on a hot summer day. It was in my Corsica which had a cup holder that came out of the dash (upper part) between the driver and passenger. Well we left an unopen can of Coke there with the windows rolled up in the sun on a day that hit around 100 (maybe more). Came back and it burst and had sprayed the windshield (wipers didn't work for that) and covered the dashboard. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are beating this to death. I get your message!
I am just trying to give you some reading material since you are now retired, and don't have enough to do.
I won't say any more about faulty windshield washers, and that the top automotive experts in North America can't find a way to keep the liquid warm without causing a fuse to blow, or a fire to start. The End Finis, el final
I said we do not charge above (MSRP), did clear bra at cost and delivered the car. Exciting, no?
No, that wasn't exciting. But, you do get a point for being on topic.
Not that I ever nit pick, but was telling the customer you never charge over MSRP a good idea? I would think most buyers, after hearing that, would try to get the car for a lower price. I probably would have said something like," okay, well it's a hot selling car, but I think we might be able to do that for you sir." That way it seems you are doing him a favor................ you got a spot for me on your sales team?
Jip, You got the Reader's Digest version. The customer was fully aware it was a MSRP vehicle but had just moved from a city where they were adding $5-$10k addendums for this car. He did not expect anything lower. When he said he would not pay anything over MSRP I said something like "Sir, you will be pleased to learn that our dealership's policy is that we shall not sell over MSRP". I did throw in the clear bra at cost and informed him that even though LR had dropped free scheduled services in 2009, as a dealership we are picking up the tab for the first 45k miles - a $1200 value. He is a happy camper.
"Power steering was standard equipment in Buick Electras in 1962."
Not on my mother's car it wasn't. I distinctly remember that white Electra with rose colored interior. Dad bought it for her because dusty rose was her favorite color. Come on. Prove me wrong. I D-Double-Dog Dare You. Be careful. I'm going to "advise" you with these words of "advice": If you prove me wrong, I'll put a grammatical whipping on you like you never imagined. :P
Your grammar for the next week had better be flawless. There is pay back for that Gone With The Wind remark.
I kind of lean towards "kristie's" post about the GM recall. It's not that something went sideways with a GM vehicle. It's just another of a long string of incidences where GM didn't quite get the details right.
I loved my Tahoe when I had it. But, there were things that absolutely confounded me with it. It had nice rear power captains chairs. They were perfect for hauling people on long distance cruises. People liked their comfort and the room.
However, when you wanted to haul something, you were supposed to hit a button and they'd electronically fold up...allegedly. Here's where the attention to detail comes in. They'd fold half way through the routine, and then plop against the front seats with their momentum the rest of the way. Problem there was, they'd hit the back of the front seats so hard, that they'd sometimes throw the front seats off their tracks. I
n engineering them, it seems either the "bean counters" thought it would cost too much to have some sort of servo which would gently fold the seats. Or, that the engineering team didn't think about the front seats getting a constant banging when the rear seats folded up.
Now, I took it back to the dealership whenever the front seats were moved "off track" (causing them to be totally unadjustable). They'd put them back on track. But, they had no permanent fix. Just poor engineering, poor quality focus and/or poor execution.
Another case in point, when I was car shopping a few months ago, the Cadillac CTS mildly interested me (no more than mild interest given another GM incident with a Caddy my parents had). I think they look good. They drive nicely. Still, with the nice interior, there was still evidence of cost cutting in the small things.....rough edges on the power window switches, for example. Controls had more play in them than the cars which the CTS competes with.
Look at the new Camaro's interior, and compare it to the Mustang's. Night and day difference. Looks cheap in the Camaro (in a car that isn't all that cheap to begin with). It's those small things that I guess GM felt that it wasn't worth putting in an extra $25-$50 worth of effort that would go a long way to changing the perception they own.
I want them to succeed. I think we all want them to succeed. The American public has a vested interest in their success. Sweating the details would be a great first step.
Snake, no offense, but firing 1/3 of their accounting staff would probably be a good thing for GM, too.
Power steering was standard equipment on the '59 Buick Electra (see 1959 Buick Electra specs), so there's no reason to believe that it wasn't standard on the '62 as well.
According to Google, power steering had been standard equipment on the Electra's predecessor, the Roadmaster, at least as far back as 1955. (1955 Buick ad brochure)
Could it be that the car in question was not an Electra?
It's just another of a long string of incidences where GM didn't quite get the details right.
GG, I said I wouldn't comment on the windshield washer fiasco again, but you explained my real point perfectly. If cost control is your overiding factor, if you skip the details, you won't be successful.
So, you bought a color TV in 1963 to watch a 1939 movie that came out in black and white?
Try as I may, I can't seem to find anything that shows what came standard equipment on 1962 Buicks but I'll keep looking.
I am 99.9% sure that all Electras came with power steering in 1962. 1952 was the first year power steering could be ordered and it was a very rare option.
Back in those days GM would special order just about any oddball car a customer wanted to special order so it's possible that car was ordered as a "delete power steering" car but I doubt it.
I was about to ask one of the guys in the Buick Club that I used to belong to.
OK, now I'm 100% sure all 1962 Electras had power steering unless, by some odd change it was somehow possible for a customer to special order one with a delete option that specified no power steering.
Could it have been a Buick Special? PS wasn't standard equipment on those.
If someone had asked a trivia question..." What year did power steering become standard equipment on Buick Roadmasters?" I would have said 1955 and it looks like I would have been correct.
Yet thousands are being sold every day and have been for years. Compare the weight of a 2002 to a 1 Series & see what 30 years of "development" has wrought. The air bags and door beams (or equivalent) are part of it, but a relatively small part.
>another GM incident with a Caddy my parents had).
Was that the battery-draining incidents? I believe I read later GM found some circuit boards weren't "going to sleep" under certain conditions, and that drained batteries.
A few years ago, I took a phone call from a crabby older woman on a used Accord he had advertised.
She really didn't ask the usual questions and made an appointment for 10:00 the next morning. She lived about 100 miles away so I figured if she was coming that far,I probably had a deal.
One thing I learned in the car business was the fact that the older the customer they more apt they were to show up on time for their appointments and in her case, he walked in the door at 10:05.
She was a stern llking old biddy in her early seventies.. Let's call her Mrs. Smith.
To the receptionist.." I'm here to see Craig. Where is he?"m I get paged.
I say to her " Hi, I'm Craig, you must be Mrs Smith"
" Yes, I am! Where is that car?"
At that point I asked her to follow me and we head out to the lot.
" So, how was your drive down here?"
" That doesn't matter! Where is the car!"
" Right here"
So, she walks around it once, opens the door, pokes her head in and says " I'll take it!. Let's get the paperwork done!"
" Don't you want to drive it"?
" Why in the &%^$ wold I want to drive it? I'm driving it home aren't I?..It's just a car and I'm sure it runs well"
So, we get the paperwork done and off she go's. Never a smile.
A couple of months later, it's Christmas time, and she sends me a nice card with a very nice note thanking me for all of the help I provided. I think she referred three or four of her friends to me.
I guess older people were raised with the ethic that if you say you are going to do something or be somewhere you do it.
The younger the customer the least apt they are to keep an appointment or be on time. They have no regard to a person's time.
It got to the point where if I had an appointment for 7:00 and 7:15 rolled around, I was gone unless they called to say they weren't coming or would be late.
Yes, this cost me a few half deals but it helped stall the burn out that happens to everyone in this business sooner of later.
As an example, I recently set a 4:00 appointment with a young guy who works for a WELL known software company in our area. I was off at 3:00 but I told him I would be happy to stick around for him He knew I would be waiting for him and I told him to call me if something came up.
Maybe in the country he came from, appointments aren't meant to be kept and I knew he could likely be a no show.
By 4:30 he hadn't showed up so I called him. Got his ans. machine and left a message. I waited until 5:00 and left.
Well, as it turns out, he showed up with two of his buddies fifteen minutes before we closed at 8:45. Seems some internet "expert" had reccommended that tactic for the "best deal".
A rookie salesperson ended up with them. He had an International Driver's License which normally means, they really can't drive.
Not knowing this, the rookie (in the back seat) let them on the freeway in the pouring rain and she quickly feared for her life.
As I understand it, once they got back to the store at 9:15, they encircled her desk and made a riduculous offer on a new Civic. They ended up leaving without a car at 10:00.
I find out about this the next day and I informed the rookie sales gal that not only would I help but she would have the whole deal.
Long story short...they got thrown out of several stores and finally returned to us.
I wasn't as nice to them as the rookie was but I made the deal for her.
Similar thing happened to me. I do all of the household grocery shopping, and sometimes if I'm in a hurry, I leave non-urgently needed items that don't spoil in the car for another trip to the car - dog food and soda often get left behind since they're heavy, and I buy ahead. Left a 12-pack of soda in the trunk overnight as I'd forgotten it was there (opening the trunk of my car is FULL of potential for surprise). A couple of the cans froze & burst, but like you, I was able to get it while it was slushy. Now I at least try to get it on the garage floor, which hoses off a lot more easily than the trunk.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
driver100 is anyting but a troll. He is a good guy who for whatever reason got wound up in this "washer nozzle" issue.
Thank you isell, I am greatful you knew this.
I over did it about the nozel thing, but it was a slow day on the site and although I believe there is a some truth in my point...I was just having some fun with it too.
Nice little story Craig. Maybe you have a story along these lines.
I saw an old friend I have only seen twice since high school. We both happened to have the same model cars. This guy is pretty successful and he said he didn't buy his BMW at the nearest BMW store because he was completely ignored when he went in to get a price.
Though he is pretty well off, and although he was in the clothing business, and loved nice clothes....these days he dresses like a slob. I am exaggerating, he wares faded jeans and a t-shirt, he is retired. After being ignored, he went to another dealer where they treated him like royalty, even though he was wearing the same kind of clothes.
So, my question is, what goes through your mind when you see someone dressed in clothes, or even dressed up? Do clothes matter? I think if I am too well dressed (say I had on a jacket and tie because I was at a meeting), I might end up paying more - do you think that is true?
I was watching my favorite program, Judge Judy and this guy was sueing his ex-girlfriend because she took this old Malibu they were sharing. He wanted the money for the cost of the fancy wheels he put on the car, just before she left him. The cost of the wheels was $1500. Judge Judy thought those were pretty expensive wheels for a guy that looked like a moran so she asked him if he made good money. He said he made a lot of money, $16 an hour. She asked to see the receipt for the wheels. He presented it and Bert took it over to Judge Judy.
She looked at the invoice and it turns out he was actually leasing the wheels with an option to buy after 1 year.
Clothes really didn't matter at all to me but after awhile I learned to avoid certain "types" of customers.
Body language is important too.
If I saw a couple af young guys in their early twenties, with baggy pants and backwards baseball caps looking at a used S-2000 and then a Mini Cooper and then a BMW, I was out of there!
The rookies would end up with these types and the results were seldom worthwhile.
I didn't realize that wheel leases were even available. Seems like too much potential for damage, but I guess there's an inflated lease price that covers that possibility.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
All I can tell you is the contract for the wheels was a lease to own deal. Bert and Judy laughed their heads off at that.........and the fact they had this old Malibu which had these brand new $1500 wheels.
I read the paper while I am watching this but I am pretty sure he said he bought these wheels as a Christmas present for his girlfriend, but it was really a present for him.
The guys not the brightest...it's not a good idea to buy fancy wheels for your spouse as a gift. Nothing that plugs in, and no car parts is what I have learned.
kirstie.....that guy in the pic is wearing a St Louis Cardinal t-shirt (dreaded enemies of my beloved Cincinnati Reds). He's sporting a "mullet" under a bandanna, and has a porn star mustache. That pretty much explains everything.
lrguy....no insult intended, but I didn't know any Land Rover could hold MSRP. Is it because they're so scarce? I know the LR dealer in my town (there's only one) doesn't advertise, at all. Not sure I've seen much in the way of new stock on his showroom whenever I've passed, either.
isell....like you, punctuality is something I'm a stickler for. If someone keeps me waiting (without a phone call), I'm not buying from them. Nor, am I selling anything to anyone who can't keep an appointment.
As such, I'll never be late for an appointment to look at a car without a phone call unless there are some extenuating circumstances.
That's too funny driver. That's why the poor stay poor because of stupid financial decision like this and messed up priorities. I wonder if he leased his bling jewellery and cubic zirconia studs in his ear too (not sure if that's what he wore, I'm just assuming)
Great story Isell. My first year in the car biz I was working from 9-8 daily because I was hoping someone might come back and ask for me or to stay for appointments. I quickly leanred that you need time off and the more time you have for yourself, the better you do at work.
I totally agree about young people these days. It seems that many don't return calls, keep appointments, or respect others' time. Not sure where this comes from but I think it's rude as hell.
I like Al Pacino's quote in Scarface and I think everyone should live by it: "All I have in this world is my word and my ba**s, and I don't break them for nobody"
What irked me the most (before we had multiple vehicle photos online), was when someone emailed to request multiple photos of a vehicle, and I'd go out and actually took time to take them, upload them and email them, and then hear nothing back. Not even "thanks, but I bought something else". What was worst is that one such person even blocked me after I sent them the photos because any subsequent emails from me bounced back. :confuse:
On a similiar note, I'm sure doctors and dentists deal with appointment no shows as well, I'm just curious what the percentage is.
no insult intended, but I didn't know any Land Rover could hold MSRP
No offense, but it is obvious you have not driven one - at least in the last 3-4 years. LR is small, this year North America will be about 20-25% of total sales and will hit about 30,000 cars. We are, for the most part, small dealers. Currently the LR4, Range Rover Sport (both HSE and S/C) and the S/C Range Rover are in a situation whee supply cannot meet demand. I can discount the LR2 and Range Rover HSE. The car I sold the other day was a special edition (Autobiography) where only 250 units reached North America. Drive one sometime - it will surprise you.
Comments
It is for driver. Like it's something monumental that will forever stop him from buying anything GM.
Ever heard of the book "Don't sweat the small stuff"?
This is, indeed, "small stuff"!
a few years back (when I had my Quest) we were up in the great white north (well, to me. Up past albany) at Christmas. Happened to be a particularly cold snap, even for there. Pretty sure it went below 0 overnight.
Well, I had left a full can (unopened) of soda (probably diet Dr. P) in the cup holder. Know what happens if that gets too cold? Yup. Kaboomy. Had soda slush all over the dash, and up on the headliner.
The only thing that saved us is I found it early the next day, before the sun really started to heat up the car. So, I was able to take the still frozen slush and scrape the bulk of it out. Pretty sure there were not even any stains left.
If that car had sat for a couple of hours in the sun, I am sure it would have thawed, and I would have had stains that may never have some out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Being in the book business I have heard of that book.
Ever heard of the book, "If you can't get the Small Things Right, Good Luck with the Bigger Things". I haven't either, but GM could learn a valuable lesson from it.
One of our employees was saying he had about a 1990 Pontiac that rusted out after one year. GM wouldn't help him. A friend had a Nova that got a trunk full of water whenever it rained. GM said, "Well, how often does it rain?" Both have never bought a GM since. All I am saying is, I think you have to perform better than expected in today's competitive marketplace. It's a small item, not usefull to many, but the incident just doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the manufacturer.
If you want to know how much trouble this problem caused GM see this article from Motortrend:
* * * * *
The Curse of the Heated Windshield Washer -- it's not a B horror flick, though it probably feels like one over at GM HQ. Nearly two years ago, the company recalled close to one million vehicles to repair the system and now it's recalling them again as even repaired vehicles begin to catch fire.
It all began with a faulty circuit board, one of dozens or even hundreds that can be found on any new vehicle. This one had a penchant for short-circuiting and overloading the ground wire, causing the wire's insulation to melt and expose the bare wire, which could then ignite any flammable material nearby. Engine compartment fires eventually led to the recall of 31 GM models, most of them SUVs.
GM's solution to this crisis? Install a new wiring harness for the "HotShot" heated windshield washer fluid system that contained an in-line fuse that would, ideally, blow in the event of a short-circuit and prevent the ground wire from overloading and causing a fire. Unfortunately, that didn't address the root problem of the faulty circuit board, nor did it prove a faultless repair.
* * * *
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yehhhhh. A car sales story and not a mooch!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My mother was a soda jerk when she was young. We used to make cherry Coke, mint Coke, vanilla Coke, lemon Coke, chocolate Coke etc.
FWIW there is a place called Johnny Rockets (not sure how many there are or what areas they are at) that will make you those flavored Cokes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I want my car deals and my flights to be boring. :shades:
A windshield nozzle heater that gets unhooked is not...sorry.
You are beating this to death. I get your message!
Not defending GM here. Their recent offerings are a big disappointment to me.
I am just trying to give you some reading material since you are now retired, and don't have enough to do.
I won't say any more about faulty windshield washers, and that the top automotive experts in North America can't find a way to keep the liquid warm without causing a fuse to blow, or a fire to start.
The End
Finis,
el final
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No, that wasn't exciting. But, you do get a point for being on topic.
Not that I ever nit pick, but was telling the customer you never charge over MSRP a good idea? I would think most buyers, after hearing that, would try to get the car for a lower price. I probably would have said something like," okay, well it's a hot selling car, but I think we might be able to do that for you sir." That way it seems you are doing him a favor................ you got a spot for me on your sales team?
Isell,
I've learned not to feed the trolls. Just ignore and move on when the discusion has reached its end.
Not on my mother's car it wasn't. I distinctly remember that white Electra with rose colored interior. Dad bought it for her because dusty rose was her favorite color. Come on. Prove me wrong. I D-Double-Dog Dare You. Be careful. I'm going to "advise" you with these words of "advice": If you prove me wrong, I'll put a grammatical whipping on you like you never imagined. :P
Your grammar for the next week had better be flawless. There is pay back for that Gone With The Wind remark.
Richard
Richard
Richard
Richard
That is why so many of their recent cars are overweight blimps.
2.5tons for a compact x5? And forget about stuff like the GT.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Not on my mother's car it wasn't.
Maybe GM offered power steering but since it didn't work properly they just sent a check out for $100.
Ok, Ok, let's not get all excited...just joking. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I loved my Tahoe when I had it. But, there were things that absolutely confounded me with it. It had nice rear power captains chairs. They were perfect for hauling people on long distance cruises. People liked their comfort and the room.
However, when you wanted to haul something, you were supposed to hit a button and they'd electronically fold up...allegedly. Here's where the attention to detail comes in. They'd fold half way through the routine, and then plop against the front seats with their momentum the rest of the way. Problem there was, they'd hit the back of the front seats so hard, that they'd sometimes throw the front seats off their tracks. I
n engineering them, it seems either the "bean counters" thought it would cost too much to have some sort of servo which would gently fold the seats. Or, that the engineering team didn't think about the front seats getting a constant banging when the rear seats folded up.
Now, I took it back to the dealership whenever the front seats were moved "off track" (causing them to be totally unadjustable). They'd put them back on track. But, they had no permanent fix. Just poor engineering, poor quality focus and/or poor execution.
Another case in point, when I was car shopping a few months ago, the Cadillac CTS mildly interested me (no more than mild interest given another GM incident with a Caddy my parents had). I think they look good. They drive nicely. Still, with the nice interior, there was still evidence of cost cutting in the small things.....rough edges on the power window switches, for example. Controls had more play in them than the cars which the CTS competes with.
Look at the new Camaro's interior, and compare it to the Mustang's. Night and day difference. Looks cheap in the Camaro (in a car that isn't all that cheap to begin with). It's those small things that I guess GM felt that it wasn't worth putting in an extra $25-$50 worth of effort that would go a long way to changing the perception they own.
I want them to succeed. I think we all want them to succeed. The American public has a vested interest in their success. Sweating the details would be a great first step.
Snake, no offense, but firing 1/3 of their accounting staff would probably be a good thing for GM, too.
(off my soap box)
According to Google, power steering had been standard equipment on the Electra's predecessor, the Roadmaster, at least as far back as 1955. (1955 Buick ad brochure)
Could it be that the car in question was not an Electra?
GG, I said I wouldn't comment on the windshield washer fiasco again, but you explained my real point perfectly. If cost control is your overiding factor, if you skip the details, you won't be successful.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Try as I may, I can't seem to find anything that shows what came standard equipment on 1962 Buicks but I'll keep looking.
I am 99.9% sure that all Electras came with power steering in 1962. 1952 was the first year power steering could be ordered and it was a very rare option.
Back in those days GM would special order just about any oddball car a customer wanted to special order so it's possible that car was ordered as a "delete power steering" car but I doubt it.
Andre, where are you?
I'll keep looking...
I was about to ask one of the guys in the Buick Club that I used to belong to.
OK, now I'm 100% sure all 1962 Electras had power steering unless, by some odd change it was somehow possible for a customer to special order one with a delete option that specified no power steering.
Could it have been a Buick Special? PS wasn't standard equipment on those.
If someone had asked a trivia question..." What year did power steering become standard equipment on Buick Roadmasters?" I would have said 1955 and it looks like I would have been correct.
I'm a Buick guy from way back!
well... alright then. I guess this means I won't be joining your sales team after all. Back to the salt mines for the ole jipster.
Perhaps Richard will jump in and explain the difference between incidents and incidence. :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thank you for the buying story. It's a refreshing change! This is a serious comment.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Indeed.
Yet thousands are being sold every day and have been for years. Compare the weight of a 2002 to a 1 Series & see what 30 years of "development" has wrought. The air bags and door beams (or equivalent) are part of it, but a relatively small part.
Was that the battery-draining incidents? I believe I read later GM found some circuit boards weren't "going to sleep" under certain conditions, and that drained batteries.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A few years ago, I took a phone call from a crabby older woman on a used Accord he had advertised.
She really didn't ask the usual questions and made an appointment for 10:00 the next morning. She lived about 100 miles away so I figured if she was coming that far,I probably had a deal.
One thing I learned in the car business was the fact that the older the customer they more apt they were to show up on time for their appointments and in her case, he walked in the door at 10:05.
She was a stern llking old biddy in her early seventies.. Let's call her Mrs. Smith.
To the receptionist.." I'm here to see Craig. Where is he?"m I get paged.
I say to her " Hi, I'm Craig, you must be Mrs Smith"
" Yes, I am! Where is that car?"
At that point I asked her to follow me and we head out to the lot.
" So, how was your drive down here?"
" That doesn't matter! Where is the car!"
" Right here"
So, she walks around it once, opens the door, pokes her head in and says " I'll take it!. Let's get the paperwork done!"
" Don't you want to drive it"?
" Why in the &%^$ wold I want to drive it? I'm driving it home aren't I?..It's just a car and I'm sure it runs well"
So, we get the paperwork done and off she go's. Never a smile.
A couple of months later, it's Christmas time, and she sends me a nice card with a very nice note thanking me for all of the help I provided. I think she referred three or four of her friends to me.
The younger the customer the least apt they are to keep an appointment or be on time. They have no regard to a person's time.
It got to the point where if I had an appointment for 7:00 and 7:15 rolled around, I was gone unless they called to say they weren't coming or would be late.
Yes, this cost me a few half deals but it helped stall the burn out that happens to everyone in this business sooner of later.
As an example, I recently set a 4:00 appointment with a young guy who works for a WELL known software company in our area. I was off at 3:00 but I told him I would be happy to stick around for him He knew I would be waiting for him and I told him to call me if something came up.
Maybe in the country he came from, appointments aren't meant to be kept and I knew he could likely be a no show.
By 4:30 he hadn't showed up so I called him. Got his ans. machine and left a message. I waited until 5:00 and left.
Well, as it turns out, he showed up with two of his buddies fifteen minutes before we closed at 8:45. Seems some internet "expert" had reccommended that tactic for the "best deal".
A rookie salesperson ended up with them. He had an International Driver's License which normally means, they really can't drive.
Not knowing this, the rookie (in the back seat) let them on the freeway in the pouring rain and she quickly feared for her life.
As I understand it, once they got back to the store at 9:15, they encircled her desk and made a riduculous offer on a new Civic. They ended up leaving without a car at 10:00.
I find out about this the next day and I informed the rookie sales gal that not only would I help but she would have the whole deal.
Long story short...they got thrown out of several stores and finally returned to us.
I wasn't as nice to them as the rookie was but I made the deal for her.
A mini deal of course after hours of pain.
So much for my "appointment"
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Thank you isell, I am greatful you knew this.
I over did it about the nozel thing, but it was a slow day on the site and although I believe there is a some truth in my point...I was just having some fun with it too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nice little story Craig. Maybe you have a story along these lines.
I saw an old friend I have only seen twice since high school. We both happened to have the same model cars. This guy is pretty successful and he said he didn't buy his BMW at the nearest BMW store because he was completely ignored when he went in to get a price.
Though he is pretty well off, and although he was in the clothing business, and loved nice clothes....these days he dresses like a slob. I am exaggerating, he wares faded jeans and a t-shirt, he is retired. After being ignored, he went to another dealer where they treated him like royalty, even though he was wearing the same kind of clothes.
So, my question is, what goes through your mind when you see someone dressed in clothes, or even dressed up? Do clothes matter? I think if I am too well dressed (say I had on a jacket and tie because I was at a meeting), I might end up paying more - do you think that is true?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
She looked at the invoice and it turns out he was actually leasing the wheels with an option to buy after 1 year.
You guessed it...he lost, case dismissed.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Body language is important too.
If I saw a couple af young guys in their early twenties, with baggy pants and backwards baseball caps looking at a used S-2000 and then a Mini Cooper and then a BMW, I was out of there!
The rookies would end up with these types and the results were seldom worthwhile.
I didn't realize that wheel leases were even available. Seems like too much potential for damage, but I guess there's an inflated lease price that covers that possibility.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Some people have no sense whatever.
Leasing wheels?!!!!!!!! I've never heard of such a thing.
Maybe that's how so many of the urban cars around this area have those $2000 wheels on them. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is too funny.
All I can tell you is the contract for the wheels was a lease to own deal. Bert and Judy laughed their heads off at that.........and the fact they had this old Malibu which had these brand new $1500 wheels.
I read the paper while I am watching this but I am pretty sure he said he bought these wheels as a Christmas present for his girlfriend, but it was really a present for him.
The guys not the brightest...it's not a good idea to buy fancy wheels for your spouse as a gift. Nothing that plugs in, and no car parts is what I have learned.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lrguy....no insult intended, but I didn't know any Land Rover could hold MSRP. Is it because they're so scarce? I know the LR dealer in my town (there's only one) doesn't advertise, at all. Not sure I've seen much in the way of new stock on his showroom whenever I've passed, either.
isell....like you, punctuality is something I'm a stickler for. If someone keeps me waiting (without a phone call), I'm not buying from them. Nor, am I selling anything to anyone who can't keep an appointment.
As such, I'll never be late for an appointment to look at a car without a phone call unless there are some extenuating circumstances.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I totally agree about young people these days. It seems that many don't return calls, keep appointments, or respect others' time. Not sure where this comes from but I think it's rude as hell.
I like Al Pacino's quote in Scarface and I think everyone should live by it: "All I have in this world is my word and my ba**s, and I don't break them for nobody"
What irked me the most (before we had multiple vehicle photos online), was when someone emailed to request multiple photos of a vehicle, and I'd go out and actually took time to take them, upload them and email them, and then hear nothing back. Not even "thanks, but I bought something else". What was worst is that one such person even blocked me after I sent them the photos because any subsequent emails from me bounced back. :confuse:
On a similiar note, I'm sure doctors and dentists deal with appointment no shows as well, I'm just curious what the percentage is.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
No offense, but it is obvious you have not driven one - at least in the last 3-4 years. LR is small, this year North America will be about 20-25% of total sales and will hit about 30,000 cars. We are, for the most part, small dealers. Currently the LR4, Range Rover Sport (both HSE and S/C) and the S/C Range Rover are in a situation whee supply cannot meet demand. I can discount the LR2 and Range Rover HSE. The car I sold the other day was a special edition (Autobiography) where only 250 units reached North America.
Drive one sometime - it will surprise you.