Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jimbres

Just out of curiosity, do you have special tax benefits if you invest in dividend paying stocks?

Yes, although these benefits will end after this year unless Congress acts to extend them.

"Qualified dividends", which are defined in the Internal Revenue Code as dividends paid by a U.S. corporation or by a foreign corporation headquartered in a country with which the U.S. has a tax treaty (Canada, for example), are taxed at a maximum rate of 15%, even for taxpayers in higher tax brackets. Taxpayers in the 10% & 15% brackets aren't taxed at all on these dividends.

m6vx

Just to much traffic with two many streets crisscrossing with varying speed limits.

Snake,

It looks like you're oh fer too on this one. ;-)

gogiboy

" But to echo your point, I do this for the sake of my health, not to "protect the environment" - whatever that means."

I suppose most of the folks who pass me while I bicycle to and from work probably think of me as some kind of rabid environmentalist, but I actually like to bike and it gets some of my weekly exercising out of the way. Besides, whatever tiny amount less gas that I am using is negated by the state law in OK that stipulates that anyone born or raised in the state must drive a full size pickup or SUV.

As for gas prices I--like the rest of you--roll with the punches although our cars are fairly efficient. I do, however, refuse to buy any car that requires premium gas because I think it's a communist plot like fluoridated water. I remember when unleaded fuel came along in the 70s my father observed that when he was younger they charged to put lead in gasoline now the refiners charge to remove it. That's why I won't buy diet colas. Why should I pay just as much for a soda that has the sugar (high fructose corn syrup) removed? Isn't that the whole point of soft drinks and by God it's my right as an American to kill myself by whatever means necessary--and I choose sugar.

Gee, no fluoridation and maximum sugar intake...Tidester, where's the emotorcon choice that has only one tooth?

Gogiboy

snakeweasel

As interest rates start to rise, people start unloading bonds, prices drop.

Not exactly correct. Bonds have a stated interest rate which is based on the face value of the bond and is usually paid quarterly. When interest rates increase the interest rate on the bond also increases. However bond doesn't pay more money quarterly but reduces in value so that monetary payment represents a higher interest yield.

Because of this as the bond approaches its maturity date the less it's value will influenced by changes in interest rates.

kiawah

That's the tax rates up thru this year. Congress will be voting after the elections whether to extend these tax cut rates, or more likely.... raise income, capital gains, and estate tax rates back up.

sterlingdog

In 2000, I lost $23K in the "dot com" crash because I listened to a broker and fund manager who kept telling me to "Just hang on". One Saturday morning I woke up and told myself, "Fool, get out!" If I hadn't, I would have lost even more. As I explained to my wife, we had worked too hard in education to lose that kind of money. We have a six figure check coming in the first of December from a land sale. I don't intend for it to go any where near Wall Street or Washington. The IRS will get enough of it. I counted pennies for too many years to risk losing security and peace of mind.

Richard

sterlingdog

Jim answered your question for me, much better than I could have explained it.

Richard

sterlingdog

I've purchased three cars during the last three years at three different dealerships. I never saw any paper work until I reached the F & I office. The only piece of paper that I saw prior to F & I was the sheet from the salesman with the agreed price of the new purchase and the offer for the trade.

As for the doc fee, I never worry about it because I consider that in my mind as I negotiate the trade and the purchase.

Richard

stickguy

I cleaned out our lock box today (the one where we keep all our vital important family papers). Apparently to me that includes all the paperwork from the cars I bought in 2005. Even the window stickers were in there! Wills, bonds, window stickers. Pretty much the same!

at least I got to reminisce about buying them. And the doc fee on the Odyssey (purchased 12/04) was $139, and the Accord (purchase 12/05) was $159, but they were at different dealers.

Also, I had a trade on the Accord deal, and remember that we ended up dealing on the difference at the end (like Terry said, "the only difference is the difference!)

That must have been a good deal, since I was lowballing (almost christmas, and it was a leftover stick shift. You would have low balled too). And oddly, I was trading in a 2005 stick shift car, that I had owned for about 17 months! Good thing the Scion tC was still hot stuff at that point.

back to the lowball. I was being stubborn, since I really did not "need" a car at that point. So, I told them my bottom line, they acted like I had kicked their dogs, so I left. When they let me go, I figured I went too far.

But, by the time I got home (must have been about 6 by then?), I had a call asking if I still wanted to do the deal. So, I said yes (not sure though if I ground anything else at that point, or I got nice and came up $100 or so). I do remember that I mentioned coming up the next day to finish the deal and get the car, but they insisted I had to come back that night, or the deal was off. That part made little sense, but I went. ended up being their doing the prep and switch until about 10, so an hour after the dealership closed.

and on the sales order, they showed full price for the Accord, and an over allowance for the Scion. Actually they added about $130 to MSRP for the Accord, and showed that they gave me a full 1K more for the Scion than I paid new!

Got 14K for the Scion. Only paid about 16.5. Would have had to private sale for over 15K to get the same net after the tax break, and that wasn't about to happen.

stickguy

I got the Odyssey when the new style was freshly out, supplies were low and demand was high. So, I considered that a challenge.

happened to find something online (might have been here, or on an Odyssey forum) about a dealer in Mass. that sold everything for some set $ over invoice ($200? something low). Well, they got hammered on the odys, but I happened to call just before they shut down the list on them. And it was just getting on the list at that point, with delivery 2-3 months out. No problem, we had a car, and a nice drive the the Berkshires in late winter sounded nice!

But, a few weeks later, we saw a couple of different colors, and my wife decided the one we reserved was not what she wanted. so, off to the local dealer to see the other options. Turns out they had original choice in showroom. Yuck. But, new favorite sitting outside, literally just off the truck. Wife likes it. So, we sit at the desk to discuss.

get the usual (and probably true at that point) about hot stuff, not dealing, etc. So, I tell them that I have an order that I can wait on (not mentioning the color difference!) and the price (about 2.2K off MSRP.) sales guy looks shocked, but wanders off to the tower. Comes back saying it sounds impossible, but they will do it with some minor bump ($200 or so). If, or course, I sign the papers right now. Heck yeah I think, but of course just give them a casual OK. Worth the $200 to save the travel.

That one I think we went back the next day for, since it still had all the transport crap on it, and we had two little kids!

And before I get reamed about reneging on a deal and my word, I don't think I even left a deposit (although I might have), but there was no actual car involved. Just the privilege of putting my name on the list. And I have no idea if they would have gone with changing color choice! And when I called to tell them I decided not to wait, they actually were happy, since by then they were selling for a whole lot more money!

My favorite part though was the dealer actually made me promise not to tell anyone how cheap I got it for! 2K off sticker at that time was a heck of a deal.

ken117

Have purchased many cars in many states (Mass, Ariz, Colo, Texas, Maryland, Maine). Never once have I signed a single document before the final adventure in the F&I office. There is no legal requirement and why should anyone sign anything until every aspect of the deal is established? For fun, every time I enter the F&I office I like to play dumb. At least half of the time, the usually smug F&I guy tries to pull something. I enjoy watching their reaction when I confront them with facts. Recently helped my college graduate daughter purchase a vehicle in Mass. I didn't say much in the F&I office until the guy, with a straight face, informed my daughter she had great credit and offered a "great" interest rate of 7 percent. I guess the guy figured I was rather uninformed and my daugther a bit green about such matters. Ah, my time had come, what about the special manufacturer's financing since the girl had "great credit." We finally settled on 1.9 percent. In my opinion, most F&I people really want customers to not understand the pricing. That way they have a much better opportunity to increase the dealer's profit, which after all, is their purpose in life. As often discussed on Edmunds, the F&I office is where every customer must be vigilant.

sterlingdog

Since they were happy when you called to cancel the order, did they refund your deposit? About how much deposit would you have made---$500?

Richard

sterlingdog

"...the F&I office is where every customer must be vigilant."

I always view the car buying experience as three separate adventures---one with the salesman, one with the sales manager, and one with the F&I guy. You have to be vigilant with each one.

BTW, welcome to our little corner of the world. Hope you become a regular.

Richard

jmonroe

Besides, whatever tiny amount less gas that I am using is negated by the state law in OK that stipulates that anyone born or raised in the state must drive a full size pickup or SUV.

That reminds me of when I moved to SC in 1992. I almost bought a truck just for self defense. All depends when I pull into the parking lot here at work, sometimes I have flash backs of those SC days. :confuse:

On a similar note, when I go to watch my grandsons play baseball/soccer/hockey I feel like they are just putting up with me driving a car. Talk about soccer-mom-vans; I can show you several little jock parking lots like that.

jmonroe

graphicguy

Old sales story coming up, but first.....

Timing devices for red lights do exist based on traffic flow. Now, here's the kicker. The company who makes them is pretty much about out of business since no municipalities are interested. That, while the company who makes "red light cameras" (a foreign company, no less) is doing extremely well financially. So, our local gov'ts obviously don't care about saving energy and in the process keeping traffic flowing, but do care about the extra revenue they derive from red light cameras.

Enough of that.....this is back when I was a relatively newlywed....mid-80s. Wife fell absolutely in LOVE with a Firebird. I think the body style was relatively new (maybe 3 years into the life cycle). She had to have the tarted up "Trans-Am" version. Now, aside from the fact that a Firebird is NOT a 4 seasons car. Nor, was it the pinnacle of reliability and build quality from GM during that period. Add to that, she was going to use it to go back and forth to class (as she was getting her MBA at the time) driving on a hilly campus. None of that mattered as I pointed out to her the downfalls of her choice in vehicles. She wanted the Firebird.

Well, any of you who remember when those first came out, they were fairly hot sellers. Plus, pricing was, at best a guess (you knew that MSRP could be negotiated, but had no idea how much "wiggle room" there was).

I went to my bank to ask what loan values were for new ones, and what their interest rate was on it (even then, I rarely financed at the dealership). So, I had loan value, and I had the dealer's MSRP. Hoping to end up somewhere in-between.

She wanted "black-on-black". Not a tough combo to find. First dealer had a bunch of them. Pick anyone you want. Price is MSRP. Not even a test drive without a deposit. I balked. We walked.

2nd dealer really didn't have much difference regarding models, colors, options, except he had one that had, for lack of a better descriptor, "gold trimmed" wheels. Of course, my "then" wife loved it. She wanted a test drive since this one had a V8 (trans-am) and we were thinking more along the lines of a V6. Anyone remembers those "wedge shaped" firebirds also has to remember that they made more noise than power. Trying to recall, but I think the V8 made somewhere in the neighborhood of 160-170 HP....something any decent 4 cyl would do today.

She loved it. We sit at the negotiation table. MSRP is the price. We aren't buying at that and I tell the sales person that. I hear all the excuses...."hot car.....wife seems to love it......you both look good in it....etc." No dice. We get up to leave and the sales person asks if we can wait to talk to the SM (amazing how somethings do not change 25 years later). "Sure, but only if he can authorize less than MSRP. Note, I did not have the confidence to offer loan value back then. I did start the very beginnings of offering and then walking if rejected.

SM comes over...."you're a nice looking couple who would look very nice in that car.....we can't keep these on the lot.....you buying today?".......etc.

I don't recall what loan value was from my bank, but it was somewhere about $1,500-$2,000 less than MSRP.

I inform him we were buyers. I also inform him that my bank says they'll loan $xxxxx on the car. And, that's where I want to be. He whisks us off immediately to their F&I guy. That person promptly hooks us up with another financial institution (I don't even recall it being a local place) who would loan OVER MSRP for the car.

That's all the wife needed to hear. She was hooked. No sense in negotiating, talking interest rates, payments, etc. She (we) found a source to finance the car.

IIRC I had about $500 on me to close a deal. Didn't make much difference. I know the interest rate was north of 10% at the time.

In short, we (me) got hosed.

Add insult to injury, the first snow that hit, the car was immovable. Snow tires, sandbags in the hatch, none of that helped. The good news, the T-Tops didn't leak. It always started. And everything worked in the car.

She tired of it relatively quickly. I got into, and out of, that car as quickly as I could.....at a substantial loss on my end.

mako1a

Never once have I signed a single document before the final adventure in the F&I office.

I have been asked to initial an offer/acceptance draft, but never a signature.
But maybe that's just me. I'm cash (check) for agreed upon price difference (trade to new) using OTD method, so figures on the paper mean something to them, but not to me. Trade, tax, fees, all irrelevant. Just the bottom line price difference all inclusive

I have to add my .02 here as you guys are still talking paper assets and trying to make money on money. You should all be out of those by now. Stocks, Bonds, Mutual Funds...not a good place to be. Look to preserve assets, not parlay them.

ETFs only if you must invest. Upcoming countries like Brazil or China. Reverse ETFs if you keep your money in the USA. The house of cards is wavering. Gold, guns and grub are your best investment. Not to sound all tea party, but I've been doing this for years. Disregard the Dow, look at S&P to fall below 900, or Yen below 72. Then oil to 150 and interest rates to catch fire while stocks get snuffed.

sterlingdog

"...and I choose sugar."

Not long ago, my wife reminded me that I have gone from a 28 inch waist to a 40 inch waist since we were married. My reply was, "Yes, I do realize it and it was a wonderful trip." I didn't remind her that she has gone from a size 8 to a 14 in the same length of time. After 43 years of marriage, there are times when you learn to keep your mouth shut. On our wedding day, I weighed 129 pounds. Now I weigh 190. That's 61 pounds of sugar which averages 1.4 pounds per year. That's 1.6 ounces per month. I can live with that.

Richard

jmonroe

I do remember that I mentioned coming up the next day to finish the deal and get the car, but they insisted I had to come back that night, or the deal was off. That part made little sense, but I went. ended up being their doing the prep and switch until about 10, so an hour after the dealership closed.

C’mon now, you know exactly why they “insisted” that you come in right then and there. They didn’t want you to sleep on it or find a better deal. The guys in the biz can tell you plenty of horror stories about people who don’t come back right away. I have one myself.

When I bought in ’05 the dealership couldn’t deliver the car that night because they couldn’t find the paperwork for it. They were the ones that told me they couldn’t let me take it that night even though they asked if they met my price that night “would I buy that night”. As it turned out, that was a good thing for me, real good.

When I got home I sent an email to the dealer across town, that I had gotten an email price from, to let them know that I bought a car at the local dealer that night and would be picking it up the next day. First thing in the morning I get a call saying that if I didn’t take delivery of the car, “then it wasn’t a done deal” and they wanted to know what I was paying. I told them and they said let me get back to you. I said, “I wasn’t going to play around over a couple of bucks”. He said, “don’t do anything until I get back to you”. He calls back, almost before I hung up, and beats the guy by $800 dollars and said, “I don’t call that playing around”. To make a long story short (because I told this tale a few years ago on one of these forums), the first guy matched the second dealers offer and I bought from the first guy.

jmonroe

mako1a

Wow, GG. That Trans-Am story was exactly how it was pre-internet.

I went to my bank to ask what loan values were for new ones

I did exactly the same thing, used to go to my bank and beg for a look at the (yellow) blue book to see if my target vehicle was even close to reasonable.

I had to have a T/A in 77 after Burt and Sally looked so good in theirs. Got hit with the numbers. Left the showroom, only to return the next day and buy with a minimum of confidence. Thank goodness cars were 4 figures back then (not 5).

Bookstores sold Edmunds like books, but the figures were always from 6 months ago.

jimbres

As often discussed on Edmunds, the F&I office is where every customer must be vigilant.

Quite right.

If you want to see an F&I guy cry, refuse to buy the extended warranty.

driver100

She tired of it relatively quickly. I got into, and out of, that car as quickly as I could

Like I said, "You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes". At least you were both young and could recover, and learn never to make that mistake again.

I do think it would be a good idea to teach a little bit about financing in school. Maybe a course in how to deal with unscrupulous F&I guys would be helpful too.

driver100

That's 61 pounds of sugar which averages 1.4 pounds per year. That's 1.6 ounces per month. I can live with that

Ah, the Driver method of averaging over a long period of time, so nothing looks too bad, and you can justify almost anything.

driver100

RE "Qualified dividends", taxed at a maximum rate of 15%, even for taxpayers in higher tax brackets.

Thanks for the explanation. What concerns me is if you get 1.5% interest, and it is taxed then it is even less, and inflation is running at 2 or 3%, you are losing ground. That is why I would think dividend paying stocks are worth considering.

I only throw that out there to think about, I am not good at investing. We lost money with a mutual fund guy when we saw he was investing in funds that would make him the most commission. Then I did it myself and we lost in the tech wreck. Now I leave it to experts....the good news was we learned valuable lessons when there wasn't as much at stake.

driver100

Disregard the Dow, look at S&P to fall below 900, or Yen below 72. Then oil to 150 and interest rates to catch fire while stocks get snuffed.

I sincerely hope you are wrong this time!

tjc78

Really, no kidding and a recent one at that!

So, I get the call a few weeks ago from my Mother-in-law to be that her Altima came off lease and she needs a new car. This time she is buying and wants exactly what she had except a 4cyl this time instead of a six. Her previous Altima was fully decked out with nav/backup camera, the works.

I tell her that IMO it would be better to find a 2010 because Nissan has some nice rebate money on them. She will be keeping this one for a long time, so buying a leftover isn't really a big deal.

There were only a few in a 50 mile radius equipped the way she wanted. She was fairly flexible on color (Silver/Black, Grey/Black, Black/Black). Long story short, I find one at a dealer about 20 miles from home that I had never stepped foot in before.

I call up and ask if the car is still on the lot by giving the salesman the stock #. The salesman says "I see its here, but let me see if the keys are in the machine" I figured that was straight up and if the key was there they actually have it. After a short on hold period, he says that there were no keys and they must have sold it.

“No biggie, I’ll keep looking”

“Well, what are you looking for?”

“2010 Altima fully loaded w/NAV 4cyl in Silver/black…..”

“Well we don’t have any but I can try and find you one”

“Sure, my phone # is…”

Twenty minutes later I get a phone call from an ecstatic salesman:

“We still have that car! One of the sales managers is using it, and it has a little over 2K miles”

“So it’s a demo”

“Yes, you could call it that, my sales manager says you could have it for XXX”

I explain that the offer he just gave is MSRP minus Nissan rebates and that would never fly on a demo. He starts to say that was a good deal, etc. I stop him at that point and explain that I will be in with my MIL tomorrow night around 6. He says great I’m here until nine.

Part 2 coming in a bit.

isellhondas

As the experts say..." The bulls make money and the bears make money but the pigs get slaughtered"

Trying to time the market or jumping on whatever is red hot at a given time is the fastest way to lose! I tried that one myself during the tech bubble.

isellhondas

Question...why doesn't your MIL simply buy out her lease for the residual?

It's probably a good buy at that number and she knows the history of the car and how it was cared for.

oldfarmer50

"...Utilities and FARM CO-OPS... are the best bet..."

A farmer friend of mine whispered to me once: I can guarantee a way that if you farm for 20 years you'll wind up with a million dollars."

I said: "Really? Tell me how!"

He smiled and said: "Start with TWO million"

oldfarmer50

"...We have a six figure check coming...I don't intend for it to go any where near Wall Street of Washington..."

I have a really big back yard and many coffee cans that I can make available for a small fee.

tjc78

she knows the history of the car and how it was cared for.

Well this was one instance where I thought it made sense to give it back. The car was rear ended really hard and needed over 12K of body work. It was fixed and looked perfect but she didn't want to keep it. The maintenance wasn't done as often as it should have been either. In other words, it wasn't cared for.

sterlingdog

"Start with two million."

He was probably exactly right.

Richard

sterlingdog

You'll need those coffee cans when you finally decide to sell to that big developer. What are you waiting for---a better price? We wanted $22K per acre, but finally caved in for $18K. Now we just need someone to come along and buy some more at that price. Still, we have to pay Alabama taxes, North Carolina taxes, federal taxes, and commission. Then we have to split it with my sorry [non-permissible content removed] BIL. Since it was a gift, we don't complain. We just consider our blessings.

Richard

driver100

He smiled and said: "Start with TWO million"
I have a really big back yard and many coffee cans that I can make available for a small fee

Missed those smart-_ _ _ comments for all those months when you were lost in the back 40.

driver100

I explain that the offer he just gave is MSRP minus Nissan rebates and that would never fly on a demo

Good story tjc,
The bad news is you have to watch this sales guy, he wasn't honest about giving you a good price.

The good news is you don't have to feel any loyalty to him since he wasn't that up front in the beginning........if you don't like his deal you can walk out without feeling he has been 100% fair from the beginning.

driver100

Trying to time the market or jumping on whatever is red hot at a given time is the fastest way to lose!

That is very true, and that is why I would never be good at investing. I don't like to sell the winners because they were good to me, and I get frustrated with losers and get rid of them too soon. To win, you have to be like my BIL, he can sell when they are up and hang on until they go up...completely detached.

Selling your car is similar, you should sell before the repairs get too costly, and don't fix a major repair then think the car will last another 10 years. (thought I should relate it to the topic somehow).

isellhondas

This is a good example of a benefit of leasing.

She can just walk away and leave the car with a massive accident history and a dirty Car Fax. As long as it's fixed and it looks perfect she's in the clear.

Were she to just turn it in, there is little doubt that it's value would be adversly impacted especially since it was so much money. The car was probably fixed properly but people will simply pass on it and buy a different car.

Skimping on maintenance is another thing some people do with leased cars and get away with it. Unless something breaks that can be attributed to lack of maintenance she can just walk away.

Some people won't buy lease turn ins just for this reason.

isellhondas

" The bad news is you have to watch this sales guy, he wasn't honest about giving you a good price"

Honesty has nothing to do with this. He was simply trying to make a decent profit.

When he was shopped in order to save a sale, he settled for taking much less and probably a "nothing" deal.

Had he started out with a lower number, that number probably would have been shopped too!

roadburner

I had to get the Mazdaspeed serviced so I took it back to Kings in Cincinnati. The Kings Auto Mall has almost every brand short of BMW, Mercedes, and SAAB. It was a nice day, so I decided to prowl the other lots while my car was in the shop. FWIW, I was wearing a golf shirt and new jeans. Here's what happened:

Chevrolet: While looking at a Camaro SS a sullen young guy asks me if I need any help. Told him I was killing time while my car was being serviced. He turns around and goes back into the showroom without another word. He seemed kind of annoyed- like I had wasted his time.

Buick/GMC: Ignored

Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep: Ignored

Ford: Met a nice guy walking across the lot. Friendly- not at all phony or pushy. Gave me a card and said call him if I had any questions. I later heard him talking to a couple looking at an Escape. He was polite and knowledgeable. If I was interested in a Mustang I'd look him up.

Honda: Attractive lady asks me if I need help while I'm checking out a CR-Z. I told her I was waiting on my Mazda. She smiled and told me that if I wanted to test drive anything to let her know.

Infiniti: Ignored

Lexus: Nothing they make interests me, so I skipped that lot.

Lincoln Mercury: Ignored

Mitsubishi/KIA: Ignored

Nissan: Ignored

Porsche: Ignored. And I was actually a bit interested in a couple of cars.

Toyota: One sales guy asked me if I'd been helped. I said I was fine; he smiled and walked on.

So, make of this what you will.

isellhondas

" He seemed kind of annoyed like I had wasted his time"

You may have. A lot of stores (not ours) work on an "up" system where they take turns waiting on customers. If a customer walks on the lot that becomes that person's "up" He may have waited for two hours. No excuse for being sullen but when he saw you looking at a Camaro SS which is a " Stroke Magnet", he probably had a pretty good idea he would be going to the back of the "up" line.

The Porsche guys deal with strokes constantly and I'm sure they knew if you were serious that you would have asked for help.

The stores that "ignored" you probably sized you up as a person who was just killing time and figured that if you were serious or had any questions you wouls ask for help. A lot of shoppers appreciate being left alone and not being pounced on.

Right or wrong a good saalesperson is pretty adapt at reading body language.

driver100

bad news is you have to watch this sales guy, he wasn't honest about giving you a good price"
Honesty has nothing to do with this. He was simply trying to make a decent profit

I think a more honest answer would be, we have special incentives right now that would bring the price down to XXXX on a new model. I am sure we can go from there on a company car (demonstrator) which has 2000 miles on it.

By giving a price that was the same as on a new model I wouldn't trust the guy. I know from the salesman's side of the fence what he said sounds honest, but from my perspective, I wouldn't trust him.

I know, you can't blame a guy for trying, but I don't buy that philosophy of thinking either...I know enough to know when I am being played (as Judge Judy would say)..

stickguy

as a customer (shopper, looker, whatever), it should not be my problem that a business has a dumb system for helping people and/or paying their employees.

The cars are there for a reason. And the business (owners) specifically encourages people to come on down and look around. And especially with cars, since they are often an emotional purchase, that is important. Lots of lookers end up finding something and becoming buyers.

So, if you set up a system that discourages looking (and where the sales people are going to end up driving potential buyers away), that is a problem.

Of course it is a fine line between giving people space to look and pouncing on them like a hungry lion. But at minimum, anyone that comes in should be greeted and asked if they need help. And sure, many people wandering around the lot (especially if they walked up) are killing time, but who knows, a car in teh shop might = a buyer to be!

RB seems to have stayed outside, so that is a little different story, especially if you are in a far corner of a giant automall lot. But getting ignored after walking into a showroom? That drives me nuts. Especially when I am standing there, obviously looking for someone. Should not be up to me to chase after someone in that environment.

isellhondas

The incentive money belongs to the dealer and it CAN be used to make a deal happen.

Also a 2000 mile manager's demo isn't worth much less than a brand new car.
It's still sold and registered as a new car.

Let me ask you a friendly question. I've asked this same question several other times over the yearsin these forums and nobody has ever really answered me.

Suppose you had a nice uesd car for sale. You price it at, say 12,000 hoping to get 10,500-11,000 for it. At 12,000 it's still priced fairly but knowing how people like to haggle you leave yourself some room.

Ad comes out and your phone starts ringing.

First peoson to see it loves it and says..." OK, here is your 12,000"

At this point, would you say..." Well don't you want to offer less"?

Or..." Wait a minute....that was only my ASKING price!"

Or would you shake his hand and take the 12,000?

By taking your asking price are you being "dishonest". Would you be someone who needed to be watched?

Just curious....?

isellhondas

I totally agree with you. I was simply giving RB my opinion of how he was probably perceived.

Yes, he did stay outside. Had he walked inside he should have been greeted immediatly. Actually, he should have been greeted on the lot but he probably wasn't for the reasons I mentioned.

I couldn't have worked in a store with an "up" system!

graphicguy

burner....even though Kings is about 20-25 miles away from me, that's where I always start looking initially when I'm in the market for the same reasons you state...they have just about everything.

That Honda store is relatively new (6 months?). I think they're either owned by, or at least affiliated with, the Performance Group since they use the little smiley face logo that Performance uses (same folks who own the Lexus dealership).

Surprised about being ignored at that Nissan dealership as they've always been all over me like a cheap suit (and also employs the "script" type of sales).

That Infiniti place is the only one in the general area. Overall, they've always been very nice to me, too. They just don't like doing skinny deals, so we've never come together on a vehicle (even though I've tried 2-3 times). Same goes for the Lexus store.

Toyota store is one of the "one price" places. And, their one price is pretty aggressive when I've shopped them.

The Chevy place is the 2nd location that I bought my Tahoe from. Haven't really been to see their new digs over there.

I have been over to the Porsche/SMART store. They've pretty much left me be. They don't hover. And, were always happy to answer questions if/when I asked them, however. GM actually offered to let me take a new Boxter home over the weekend that I had hovered over for 20 minutes or so the last time I was there (I declined because I was worried that I'd like it too much and would buy it).

Great area to kick tires and look through the windows.

mako....I remember those old Edmunds and NADA books. You're right. They were AT LEAST 6 months behind in their facts and figures. My banker always had current figures, for used cars, loan values on both used and new, etc. IIRC, he said he got his "book" every week or every month with the updated figures.

Now, we can get them at the stroke of our fingers.

25-30 years ago, I was too timid to do a "here's the price I'm offering.....you in, or are you out?" Further, I assumed that the dealership was infallible when it came to taxes, fees, etc. I accepted what they told me.

Today, I wouldn't do it any other way than researching, and offering my own price, inclusive of everything.

oldfarmer50

"...I decided to prowl the lots..."

I've done that too while waiting for service and was glad that a salesman wasn't popping up every 10 seconds trying to make a sale. The last time I did the lot prowl a few salesmen said "hello" as they walked past which would have given me the opportunity to ask questions. I assume they were experienced enough to keep walking if I didn't have any. This may be the new low-key style that salespeople have these days.

What say the sales folks. Am I right that when you see a person wandering around the lot you just walk by and say hello to see if the guy is a customer or a stroke? If I were a salesman that's the way I'd do it.

imidazol97

I suspect at some stores they saw you walking from lot to lot and that influenced not bothering you as you browsed. If you had driven onto the store's lot and gotten out and started looking you probably would have been approached at a reasonable time.

I appreciate just being left to browse the window stickers. If I start looking toward the store like I'm looking to see if there are salespeople around, then someone might want to approach me. I do not like the local toyota store where someone opens your door when you park on the lot. Actually they don't open the door, but they stand right next to your car. I want to browse the various offerings and they won't leave once they greet you. I go on Sunday morning if I want to see toyota's price stickers (they're open on Sundays).

jmonroe

I haven’t seen very many Smart cars and today I saw two on the PA Turnpike as I drove to work early this morning, in the dark. The first one came from behind me on a very level stretch of road (kind of rare in Southwestern PA) as I’m doing just a hair over 60 with the cruise on (the speed limit is 55 because of some construction). It took the guy forever to pass me but I didn’t know it was a Smart car until he did. This guy rode the left lane for about a mile until he came to a hill. He finally pulls over into the right lane and would you believe it he pulls in behind another Smart car that is chugging up the hill behind several 18 wheelers.

I just don’t get it. If I had a Smart car I wouldn’t want to be out on an Interstate going up a hill and seemingly being all in at something less than 60 MPH. :sick:

jmonroe

isellhondas

Not far from here is a Screamer Ad, high turnover Ford store. Waht a miserable place that would be to work.

The salespeople stand outside under a pagoda taking turns with "ups". They are not allowed into the store itself unless they have a customer.

Typical liner-closer store that turns over a third of their staff every month.

fezo

We have a six figure check coming in the first of December from a land sale. I don't intend for it to go any where near Wall Street or Washington.

I'm a safe distance from both. Just sayin.....

old farmer - awfully glad to have you active in here again. Love your almanac.

OK, here is today's challenge. I'm renting a car at the Tampa airport (TPA) on Sunday for 8 days. So far my best deal on an Intermediate (CamCord size) is $206.84 or $273.74 with all the taxes and lovely fees that keep Florida from having to have a state income tax. Can anyone beat that? Rules of the game - it has to be an in-airport rental place and must assume two drivers in the price (Alamo strikes out on both counts). Have at it!

mako1a

Let me ask you a friendly question.

Here's your answer, Isell. If I advertise for $12k, that is what I intend to get.
If I wanted $10,500 I would have advertised for that. I'm not a dealer and I don't play games or discount for a thin wallet or a pretty face. You want it from me, pay what I'm asking or go elsewhere. $11,990 is still not $12,000. It's ten bucks short.