Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jayrider

First and foremost--is it the car you want. Equipment and color. Whether it has miles or has been titled shouldn't be your first concern. If it's everything you want, then see if it is a better deal because of the miles.
If you go onto the lot and ask "What low mileage rides to you have that you can sell me at a super price -- I'll take anything -any color-any equipment?" That is an entirely different approach -- would anyone buy like that?

snakeweasel

Take an apple, seeds and all and cut it up.

Did you know that apple seeds are poisonous?

Not really enough in an apple to do any real harm, but they do contain cyanide. And grinding up the seeds does tend to release more of the cyanide.

snakeweasel

We bought a demo once, had far more than 2K miles on it though. Got a good price and ran well for many years.

oldfarmer50

"...because it was a manager's demo..."

Somewhere in the back of the customer's mind there has to be a little voice saying: " ...and he drove it 2000 miles in the manager's demo derby". The emotional nature of car buying lends itself to flights of paranoia when thinking about what someone else was doing with your "baby". It's the same fear a buyer has when looking at a rental car or a lease return. In fact, it's the same fear a buyer has with any used car. The difference is that for all the other used cars there is a discount in price relative to the chance for abuse. To not expect a customer to want a proportional discount on a demo ignores human nature.

You are correct in saying that if you can't stand the mileage you should buy a brand new one.

imidazol97

Almonds are recommended because they too have a small amount of cyanide.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/magic-bu- llet-of-cyanide-could-kill-cancer-cells-698577.html

oldfarmer50

"...after a heated discussion with her husband in their native tongue..."

A while ago at the market I was selling tomatoes at $3.50 a box when everyone else was charging $5.00. A lady who barely spoke english kept trying to get them for $3.00. It didn't matter that the next table was charging $5 because in her culture your price was just the "sticker" price and subject to negotiation.

We went round and round and finally she bought at my posted price but didn't look happy. I guess I wasn't playing the game the way she wanted.

I'd probably be a terrible car salesman, the customers would hate me because I wouldn't dicker and the boss would would fire me for giving the inventory away too cheap. :sick:

verdugo

I'll second that.

A little late to the party here, but add me to those who agree that it's not quite a new car. The price should be discounted a bit. The sticky point is how much "a bit" should be.

kyfdx

(insert polygamous religious sect here) must spawn a lot of Dealership General Managers, as every demo I've ever been shown has been driven by the manager's wife...

They must be making a lot of money on them, because how else could a guy afford thirty wives? :surprise:

isellhondas

Snake you just love to argue but that's OK.

It can't be sold as a "new" car if it has more than 6000 miles on it.

So, turning this around, would you consider it "used" if it has 200 miles?

I'll tell you the same thing I told someone else...I understand!

It's not for you so don't buy it! The next person probably won't care!

isellhondas

Oh that's pure garbage!

Nobody ever abused our demos because we were with them when they wre driven.

Our service rental cars were sold as used cars after a year and they were always in great shape. We only rented them to service customers.

But, again, if you are nervous about buying a demo than don't buy one!

We have owned two Hertz cars in the past and they were jsut fine. Most people don't abuse cars!

isellhondas

It's probably more like 5% and that's fine. As I keep saying, if they are that paranoid they should jut buy a brand new car instead!

jimbres

I never realized what a pain stiff collars and ties were until the last couple of years while retired. Probably would have enjoyed life much more without them.

I hear you, brother, but I will throw out this observation.

I learned from my Dad, who was in the shirt biz, that if a man finds wearing a tie to be uncomfortable, it's probably because he's wearing cheap dress shirts. The solution is to get your neck & sleeve length accurately measured & then buy your shirts from a source that sells exactly that size.

Most department stores & discounters don't sell exact sizes. Instead, they compromise by combining 2 sizes into 1 shirt - a 17 neck & a 34/35 sleeve. But I'm a 17 in the neck & a 34 in the sleeve, & that's what I want to wear. So I spend a couple of dollars extra & buy from Lands' End (or a comparable retailer) & I get precisely that size. Believe me - that makes a big difference. As a result, I never minded wearing a tie, although now that I'm retired, I don't miss 'em.

jwilliams2

Well, I agree, and always wore nice custom shirts or better grades from Nordstrom's or Brooks Brothers. And I bought them or had them made a bit loose in the collar. I must just have an aversion to things around my neck.

Now I usually wear a nice colored T type shirt, as I don't even like the feel of golf type shirts with collars (unbuttoned, of course) unless I need to dress up.

Sandman6472

My folks bought a few demos with the tag line being, "the owners wife was driven around in this car". They all ended up being great cars but they did discount the price each time. Was a win/win situation for all involved. As for me, not sure if I'd want a demo but I'd expect some sort of price reduction though. From reading posts here, think most folks feel the same. But I've never been offered a demo in real life. Maybe with my next purchase...I will?

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

driver100

It's not for you so don't buy it! The next person probably won't care!

Excuse me, but I think this started when one slimy bottom feeding unscrupulous salesperson tried selling a demo (or management driven) car that had 2000 miles on it for full MSRP. I don't think Snake, jimbres, verdugo or I would have a problem buying a car with 2000 miles on it, but we would expect to be told the dealer is going to give us a reasonable discount over MSRP.

We can buy it or not, but the salesman should tell us up front the car has been used, and will be discounted accordingly. Not that he is doing us a favor by selling a car with 2000 miles on it for full price.

snakeweasel

I do expect a new car to have some miles on it. 200 miles might be pushing that a bit. Not sure about this but I don't think I have ever bought a new car with over 75 miles on the clock.

As I said I don't mind buying a car with 2000 miles, but I am not going to pay new car prices for it.

imidazol97

When I picked up one of my Fords, it had a note that it had been selected for testing at the factory and had been driven there as part of the checks. I don't recall that it had over 20 miles on the odometer when I got it.

verdugo

What is the world coming to? I'm agreeing with driver

sterlingdog

Goodness. I go away for the day and have to catch up on 120 posts. You guys have been busy bees. Here's my two cents on new vs. used cars. I'm not here to debate what constitutes new or used. I just want to say that I have owned new cars, rental cars, lease cars, demo cars, and privately owned used cars. Three of my new cars, 10 miles or less, were disasters---Cadillac DeVille, Buick Skylark, and Ford Granada. One used car was a disaster---MGB. Out of 25 cars, that's 4 bad cars. The demos, off-lease, rentals, used, and other new cars were fine. That's about an 85% success rate. None of this is either here or there.

Each car was purchased because I wanted that particular car. It was the make, model, color, design, etc. that attracted me. I often bought slightly used for the simple reason that I liked the car. I could have purchased a new car each time had it been what I wanted. I did make one rule for myself in purchasing a car. I never wanted a car with more than 20K miles. That was just an idiosyncrasy with me.

Take our latest purchase. I was prepared to buy new---Flex, SRX, Lincoln, Explorer, or Grand Cherokee. My wife wanted an SRX but neither of us liked the new design with less space. She wanted the '08 or '09. She got it. We're very pleased after the first month of ownership. Most people do the best that they can to check out a car before purchase. I don't put much faith in a test drive, but a good mechanic is worth the money. No matter how hard you try, it's all risk involvement. Thankfully, the majority of cars are in good shape. Most people are satisfied with what they drive. If most people were dissatisfied, car companies wouldn't stay in business very long.

In conclusion, it is what it is because it's the car that you want. If you don't like it, or if something worries you about it---mileage, price, condition, or design, then don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

Richard

mako1a

Why not use $1 per mile on "new" cars? 2,000 miles on a "new" demo and buyer might look to get a $2,000 discount.

I once bought a "new" car and upon closer examination found a french fry on the floor along side the drivers seat. They call that New?

I wish there was a way to own a car without titling it as that seems to be where the big money drain begins. New with 2000 miles vs Used (titled) with 2000 miles has a vast money difference.

jmonroe

Try leaving out the apple--adding a tsp of chicken boullion and a slice of bread.

That sounds like a Kosher drink.

Heat it up in the microwave for a nice light soup. My mom used to make that with 2% milk as the liquid.

My Mom had to put in a few French fries; otherwise I wouldn’t go near the stuff. Still waiting for the pill version.

jmonroe

driver100

my Fords, it had a note that it had been selected for testing at the factory and had been driven there as part of the checks

Nice of Ford, using your car as a test vehicle. They should have paid you for doing that. Hope they didn't take it out on the test track.

driver100

What is the world coming to? I'm agreeing with driver

Where would you like me to send the $20 I said I would send you if you would agree with me?

graphicguy

Quasi "the one that got away" sales story.

By the time I had decided to buy my current Acura TL, after I had already done all the sniffing around the Benzs, Audis, Infinitis, BMWs, Jaguars, etc, I decided to visit the only two Acura dealerships in the city. I liked the people and the attitude at both.

The one furthest away from me had a TL identical to what I wanted, except it was the General Manager's car. I inquired about it with my sales person. He said it had only been in service for a couple of months and didn't know how many miles were on it. When I asked if it was for sale, the GM didn't hesitate...."every car here is for sale, regardless".

Long and short of it, the car had a little less than 2,000 miles on it. GM said he only drove it back and forth from home to the dealership, which was around 10 miles. He said he never red-lined it (hard not to do in these cars). Never smoked in. Never a squeak, nor rattle in it.

He said his demo would be $1,200 less than one with no miles on it.

I test drove it. It was exactly as he said. The floor mats were still in the trunk, brand new. They used some cheaper ones in it to keep the carpet clean. There wasn't even a paint chip on it. It was pristine.

Thought very seriously about pulling the trigger. Except, it was an '09. The '10s had been out for 2-3 months by this time. And, my closer dealer accepted my skinny offer on a '10 (at $900 more than the GM's car at the further dealership).

While they were for the most part, identical cars, right down to the color. Looking further down the road, I knew that the model year would make a sizable difference come time when I would sell or trade it.

So, I bought the new one.

snakeweasel

I wish there was a way to own a car without titling it as that seems to be where the big money drain begins.

That sounds like a great ideal, I will see if a dealership will let me drive a car for 4 or 5 years as an extended test drive for a small monthly fee. Then they can sell the car for a real high price since it was never titled.

driver100

if something worries you about it---mileage, price, condition, or design, then don't buy it. It's as simple as that

Richard, i don't think any one would disagree with you. I think what people are disagreeing with, was a salesman who offered a company car with 2000 miles on it and said over the phone the cost of the car would be full MSRP. He didn't even let the perspective buyer know that there were discounts available. The problem is the salesman didn't say the car was "used" (maybe a bit much), or a "company car" (reasonable), or a car driven carefully by a manager (that at least would be truthful).
He didn't acknowledge this car was any different from a new car.

Isell (I will try my best to interpret) kind of thinks this is reasonable because the car wasn't actuallicensed before, but I think he does believe the salesman should be up front that the car has been driven, there should probably be a discount. He doesn't necessarily believe the car qualifies for a discount because it might have been a dealer discount and not a company wide discount, though I find that hard to believe....that a dealer wouldn't offer a few $1000 off on a car that is one year old.

I think I have explained it. Nobody said there was a problem wwith a used or slightly used car. They said the car should be presented as such, and there should be an appropriate discount applied. That's all.

tjc78

I test drove it. It was exactly as he said. The floor mats were still in the trunk, brand new. They used some cheaper ones in it to keep the carpet clean. There wasn't even a paint chip on it. It was pristine.

This is an exact description to the demo my MIL (to be) bought (they used heavy duty rubber mats with the carpeted factory ones in the trunk). It looked great upon first look and even better than that when we picked it up.

If I had the same situation I would have spent 900 more for a year newer and no miles. In this case the Altima would have been about $2500 - 3000 more for a 2011. The 2010s w/nav were in short supply and there wasn't a rebate on the 2011. I think in my/her case it was a no brainer. She is going to keep this one for a long time and the model year/mileage difference will be very small in 8-10 years.

driver100

. Looking further down the road, I knew that the model year would make a sizable difference come time when I would sell or trade it

Smart. If you might be trading in within 5 years you might as well buy new, because of that one years extra depreciation. Also, sometimes the new car actually has more free options or actually comes down in price. This year the Jetta is larger and costs $5000 less. When we got our first bmw 3 Series there was a huge drop in price for the 3 Series. Usually it costs less to lease the newer car because of the depreciation already discounted on the one year old model.

Over 5 years how much more could it be to drive a one year newer car? Not much.
If keeping for 5+ years it becomes more beneficial to go with the one year old car.

One more thought. What do they charge for mileage if you go over on a lease these days? Probably about $1 a mile. That is what they should take off the company car.

Now I am off to work for the day.

crkyolfrt

"He said he never red-lined it (hard not to do in these cars). Never smoked in. Never a squeak, nor rattle in it. "

Graphic, this is actually not a good thing. A car with that many miles without having had it's legs stretched (engine wound out) starts to create a scored path that the pistons travel within their cylinder bore. So one day after much 'gentle' use a driver redlines the engine, then con rod stretch can allow that piston's rings to reach a newer, longer stroke, thereby being forced to 'jump over' that old scored ridge within the cyl bore. Naturally this rips off some aluminum bore, and scores the rings (has been known to even crack and break a ring) which of course lowers compression/hp and increases oil use considerably....and of course a premature repair eventually.

In most cases, gently driven from new raises my caution flags big time.

And for what it's worth, I am on the side of the fence that supports that a 2000 mi 'demo' with a no-charge floor french fry, demands a serious discount. What's good for the dealer-goose, is good for the customer-gander.

jayrider

If the french fry was about 4 inches long and a bit brown on the ends, it was mine.
Sorry about that. I was careful about the ketchup so no harm no foul.

fezo

Goodness. I go away for the day and have to catch up on 120 posts.

So don't go out. You have a job here..... :P

fezo

I once bought a "new" car and upon closer examination found a french fry on the floor along side the drivers seat. They call that New?

A french fry? Wait'll Isell sees that one!

houdini1

You did good, your only option really.

What would you have done if the manager's car had been the '10 and the brand new one was the '09 and they were priced the same? I would have still taken the '10. The model year difference would mean more to me than the 2000 miles.

crkyolfrt

" I was careful about the ketchup so no harm no foul."

lol, don't be so sure...have you ever seen the grease that leaches off a FF?

crkyolfrt

Thank you for this info Richard. Blood pressure still too high and right hand still screwed but am trying acupuncture. Last ditch effort, not sure what I'm gonna do if this doesn't work. Can't even cut it off cuz then I would still have phantom pain.

Sometimes life deals you tough stuff eh?

Glad to see you and the Mrs are enjoying the new Caddie

tjc78

One more thought. What do they charge for mileage if you go over on a lease these days? Probably about $1 a mile

Most leasing companies are in the .20 - .25 range.

lemko

A similar scam is Primerica which is the "Amway of Financial Services" with its overpriced life insurance and loaded mutual funds. I got suckered into such a presentation and left in disgust.

lemko

I drive a Cadillac and am not a Tea Party member.

jmonroe

It's a demo.

This is not really worth all this discussion, as 99.9% of all buyers understand this.

That’s dealer slang for a used car as far as I’m concerned. So I guess that puts me in the 0.1% bracket. From what I’ve heard on this subject right here, that bracket seems to be pretty big for 0.1%.

I’m not anti “demo” and I even helped my Mom buy an ’89 Bonneville demo with a couple clicks over 5K miles but there should be a recognizable discount because of this. I told this tale a few years ago when we were on this same subject.

My brother knew one of the sales managers (this guy even said they were friends when we showed up) at a local mega dealership. He turned us over to a greenpea after the test drive. Greenpea walks into the room and says to my brother, “man, you must be very good friends with Frank. You’re getting a great deal”. He proceeds to insult us with a ridiculous price (damn near MSRP). My brother jumps up and is ready to leave. My calm demeanor convinced him that we should stay and hammer out a deal because we’d be in the same boat, at another dealership the following night, and Mom might not like the car as well. Mom had to have power seats to get herself comfortable so he agreed to stay “for a little while”.

We finally get the deal we wanted and my brother said to his friend (?), “why couldn’t you have given us this deal an hour ago”? His friend says, “most people don’t think they’re getting a good deal until they get our third price”. :sick: I’m sure if we bit on the first price he wouldn’t have said, “hey, we were just joshing with ya. Here, you can have it for this price”.

I always thought that you’d have to have a parent in the car biz to not be taken advantage of and that episode proved it to me. I know, there are exceptions but I’m willing to bet my first born on that and I’m also willing to bet that my percentage number would be better than the one you mentioned.

jmonroe

crkyolfrt

Thanks again for the info. Thought I would let you know I chose an Omron HEM790ITCAN Couldn't find any of those others you listed in Canada. Some could be had but were over 6 hours drive.

This one seems to work ok. Has a form fitting type cuff which is a real improvement when trying to put it on by yourself. Except I need to train it to offer up a lot lower numbers on me than it's doing.

isellhondas

This whole topic has gotten sidetracked into several different directions.

My fault, no doubt for speed reading the first post.

The salesperson in question should have pointed out that the 2000 mile car was, indeed, a demo and should have offered a discounted price. No question about that.

What I am about to say, comes from the experiences of almost 14 years in the car business. You can choose to believe me or not believe me or totally disagree with me. I really don't care.

As a perk for being a manager, most stores provide their managers with a demo. They are requred to take exceptional care of them and keep them clean. These demos are typically not used as family cars but are used mainly to drive back and forth to work.

The store I worked at required the managers to exchange them after no more than 5000.00 miles. If a customer wanted, say a blue NAVI Pilot and the only one was being used as a demo, we could and often would sell it even though it may have only been a demo for a few days.

Now, on, say a 5000 mile demo, we would offer them at very attractive prices. We would NOT lose money on them and we would sell them cosmetically "as is". We would tell prospective buyers that there was a possibility that there could be a rock chip or a scuff somewhere. Some didn't care and others would microscopically examine every square inch of the car looking for a flyspeck in the paint.

I get the feeling from some of the posts here that a demo is a very risky thing to buy and if bought should be sold for many thousands of dollars below what a dealer paid for it. Others seem to fear that "somthing" sinister may be lurking or that the demo has been drag raced every day.

I understand this. I would hear of these fears from a small, VERY small percentage of my customers. I would never try to talk them out of buying a demo. Instead I would steer them toward a new car instead.

It was funny when five years later, they would trade in the new Honda that I sold them for another and the trade would be just TRASHED inside and out.

What one person will stick their nose up at will often represent a great deal for many other people. I just think that some posters here just can't grasp that.

A person has to buy what they feel comfortable with and not what someone else thinks they should buy!

fezo

I got caught in a Primerica presentation once. Ugh.

I should have mentioned you as the other candidate for the "wait'll he sees the post with the french fry." I would assume lemkomobiles don't go within two blocks of a french fry.

verdugo

Where would you like me to send the $20 I said I would send you if you would agree with me?

Since I don't plan to make a habit of it, you can keep the $20 :P

verdugo

Most leasing companies are in the .20 - .25 range.

My company reimburses them at .5

mako1a

I'd like to stay on topic, but have to insert here due to recent findings.

Gout. I get it and it hurts (a lot). Usually in feet and big toe joint. Haven't had it in 6 months as I discovered that keeping feet moist (damp socks, moisturizer, etc) fixes it...then my wrist gets to hurting real bad. Wife looks it up and finds gout can be in your wrist. Sure enough, I take indomethacin (green capsules that make you sleep and have wierd dreams) and wrist pain subsides. Gout of the wrist...who would have thought. Maybe this will help someone here.

lemko

No food, no drinks, no smokes!

driver100

Most leasing companies are in the .20 - .25 range.
My company reimburses them at .5

Not sure where that leaves us but it has to be about 50 cents a mile these days, that is the cost per mile over the lease limit. Now, those are miles on a 3 year old car with over 36000 miles and no more warranty. The 2000 miles are on a new car which has a lot more value, so would be worth at least 2X as much, so probably 80 cents to $1 per mile over a new car.

driver100

they would trade in the new Honda that I sold them for another and the trade would be just TRASHED inside and out.

LOL, that was good. I think we are all on the same page, except I don't think any one here is really against buying used or a demo over a new car. We just want to pay a fair price for a demo...and the salesman should call it what it is (I am sure you are ok with that from hat you have said).

sterlingdog

"So don't go out."

Look who's talking. You go to Tampa and leave me with all of this.

Richard

driver100

I drive a Cadillac and am not a Tea Party member

If it is used it was owned by a Tea Party member.