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Comments
haha I went back and tweaked it a few times so it would make more sense in places....there are a few more that should be done too, but just too sore now.
It was a LONG eight weeks!
Guess Chicago and NY learned from the same pages, lol..
You could maintain that but you would be wrong. Traffic congestion is due to having more vehicles than the road can hold at a particular speed. The faster you go the longer the distance you need between cars which means fewer cars can be on a particular mile. Add more cars traffic starts to slow. Its not "people acting like sheep" but rather way to many people trying to get someplace all at the same time.
back to fuel economy........ but only because most manuals are not driven correctly in those same conditions.
Actually I think the real reason many automatics get better gas mileage is that manuals tend to be tuned to be more performance orientated due to thats what most manual drivers want.
Let me also add that I do think the average driver is more competent than you make them out to be.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When I drive I don't shave, put on makeup, text, eat breakfast, drink coffee, read the paper, brush my hair, etc. All my limbs work properly. So I really don't need an automatic. If I break a leg or arm, driving would be the least of my issues.
Unlike Snake, I prefer a stick in heavy traffic for a variety of reasons.
I have no data to back it up (other than my own mileage numbers) but I believe that if one takes advantage of all that a manual has to offer in the real world one can't help but have better gas mileage than an automatic. The only exception might be strict highway-only driving because manufacturers make the gearing different in them. Many manual cars rev higher in their top gear. I'm told that's because car makers worry about manual drivers not downshifting if they use cruise control. :confuse:
And don't get me started on longevity, lower sticker costs, and cheaper maintenance (not only the tranny but tires and brakes too.) Did I mention the "fun" element?
Finally, I always get a chuckle out of those stories about thieves who can't figure out how to drive a stick so they leave it alone.
Again, I don't care if others drive an automatic... I would just like to have the option for those of us who do. :shades:
I thought for sure you were going to tell us you passed your test the next time because the next time you wore a mini-skirt.
That would have made an even more interesting story.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And yes, most autos do have a taller final drive in their tranny. A 2006 Honda CRV is a perfect example of this. Both trannys are 5 speeds, yet the manual in 5th at same hwy speed is hundred's of rpms higher. Imagine how much better the manuals average fuel mileage would be if they used identical final drive ratios as their auto cousins? The fact that now there are a majority showing better figures (but only just edging out in most cases) for autos than manuals, proves this. And all without the complexity of turning fuel supply off and on. There are still cars though, that this is not the case. Just last night i was looking at specs of a 2011 Jetta. Compare the mileage for the manual vs the auto and you will see the manual still uses less fuel in both city and highway. And the comparo is consistent whether the 2 litre or 2.5 litre engine is used.
I think that an astute person should also realize that mgfrs also like to promote autos for wty reasons. Because they tend to allow gentler use on the car, there are fewer claims that have to be negotiated.
True...that article did say 38% of Mini Coopers are still sold as standards, so you might have to buy one of those next time, though I don't know how you feel about that, tallman. Or are you one of the tall people who always ends up with a small car?
One employee of ours is 6ft 4 in and he used to have a 3 cylinder Firefly. He said it actually had lots of room inside, though that was the only good thing about that car.
My friend who surprised me by trading in his beautiful BMW hardtop convertible for an enormous 7 Series is about 5 ft 4 in. Go figure?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I also was going to mention the 'lugging thing' but have had to quit typing so much, but I believe that to be true.
You have explained the auto/manual situation very well, but I just want to be clear on this point, because it is interesting to me if I am reading it correctly, especiallly because I am mechanically challenged.
Are you saying the manufacturers dummy down the automatics (don't get as many rpms at faster speeds), in order to get better gas mileage, and I suppose get better fleet averages?
Also, while we are on this topic, a thought occurred to me that you might have some thoughts on. A few hundred posts ago someone said they wouldn't buy a car that used premium fuel because of the higher cost. As I was filling up my car with premium fuel, I was thinking, maybe I pay 10% more for using it......but is it possible you could be getting 10% or more better gas mileage because your car has a more efficient engine?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
edit - checked online about this... I shouldn't have said " premium gas actually has fewer btu's in it than regular." But what I said about premium being able to have a more controlled or 'delay timed' burn is correct. Since the higher the compression ratio, the more readily the gas will ignite, you want a gas that is slower to burn under those higher pressures. This allows an advanced timing still which helps to maintain better fuel economy. But a lot of cars requiring premium gas, are still not really mileage champs cuz they are tuned for performance first and foremost. That's why they use higher CR's.
partial quote from Wikipedia:
"Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel (see heating value). It is only a measure of the fuel's tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner. Where octane is raised by blending in ethanol, energy content per volume is reduced."
But it depends on the car. Most modern cars (and some higher end motorcycles with FI, but not all) use knock sensors that can read the octane of the fuel. If you have a car that requires hi-test and you fuel it with 87, it will still run ok because the electronics have retarded the timing to prevent ping and knock. But in so doing you often will get poorer fuel mileage cuz the car was designed to be run on the hi-test stuff. Trying to nut-shell it for ya here, but there is a lot to it.
I'm also 6'4" and I used to like small cars although I let that go when kids entered the picture. Head room is always an issue. Before I even can consider a car, I have to sit in it to see if I fit. The Mini does well in that department, IIRC.
It is surprising how some small cars have more headroom than those that are larger.
Yes, I could go on and on about the advantages I see but why bore all these fine folks.
FWIW, if you find yourself needing a bigger vehicle and you decide to trust American, I have a friend who is 6'6" and a lot of that is in his upper torso and still finds good comfort in his Buick Enclave. Seat backs are always reclined no matter what he drives. If you don't like American, his warranty-hungry Mercedes ML350 that he traded on the Buick, was also very roomy.
With either of those, you'd have to give up the std tranny tho..
Glad y'all mentioned the Mini, as I had forgotten about it. And since my next car will be my last one, it's time to finally get a "fun" car without $ constraints...but within reason! Not crazy about German makes, but the C class I tested a few months back was "really cool"...even a pre-owned CPO would fit the bill nicely! The salesguy probably figured that I wasn't the Mercedes type, so the test drive was rather short & he was very cold. Left a bad impression actually! Not sure about VW's reliability issues...cheaper but doesn't have the "cool factor" that a MB does.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Amateurs. I've bought 4 cars since 2008 with an assist on a 5th. I've purchased so many cars and told so many stories that I don't even have to pay the membership dues any more. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Great little car too with a nice drivers chair...one where I can slide right over instead of falling into it, but alas, that power option is still missing, so it's off my short list. But did like my salesperson & will give him a shot down the road when I'm ready.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Amateurs. I've bought 4 cars since 2008 with an assist on a 5th. I've purchased so many cars and told so many stories that I don't even have to pay the membership dues any more.
Let's see ... we've bought 4 cars since 2005. The '05 VUE, the '06 ION, the '08 VUE and the '10 MINI. So, my dues are up to date as well. Perhaps I've not shared the gory details here in the forums, but, for the most part, the sales were all straightforward and not a lot of looking or negotiating took place.
sandman - I drove my daughter's MINI today (for all of 4 miles!) and can comment favorably on the seats. She's got an automatic Cooper (not S) and, while not terribly fast, it does handle like it's on rails. Great car for 1 or 2 occupants.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Thanks for your answer...if you think of more on this topic just write it out when you feel up to it. I like the way you explain complicated mechanical things, in laymans (as Stan Frieberg used to say "clotheads) terms.
Took awhile for me to catch up, had to go with my wife to see The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was reading two reviews in the newspaper today that you might want to look up. Since you mentioned VW the new Jetta got a good review. It is larger than before, so that might be a problem, but they said the interior was tops in its class. They make a big deal about reliability and my neighbor has an 11 year old Jetta dieselwith over 200000 miles on it and no problems.
Another car they looked at was the Nissan Juke if you like something really different. They liked it quite a bit in the review I saw.
The Mini is a good one to try too. I just am tossing these out there for the fun of it.....
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Those darn women drivers are really a pain !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
When driving I have my seat much higher than he does even though I am 3 inches taller.
Then there was the quote from one of Mickey Rooney's wives. She was rather tall and someone asked if the height difference caused any marital problems. She said no, men are all the same height in bed.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
She must really be enjoying that Benz test drive. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Actually, I prefixed it with "Not to say that women are less capable"
then I (unfortunately...haha) said: "but they tend to be more lazy at learning driving".
and I should have added at the end 'and their cars'. Many women resist knowing things about their cars. Oh man....here is me shutting up now... I fear I'm in deeper than before. Obviously it wasn't my intention to imply that any women on a car forum were in that category. :blink:
GSTduckin' & hidin'Geez, that figure seems awfully high to me. Are you referring to the U.S. market? I've had no luck googling for historic data, but I would doubt that manual transmissions accounted for much more than 8 or 9 percent of total sales even then.
Once reliable automatic transmissions hit the U.S. market in the 50s, they caught on very quickly. By 1960, the overwhelming majority of new cars were automatics.
My father's last MT car was a '53 Chevy. He replaced that with a '55 Bel Air equipped with Powerglide.
Now I know what you did with the $20 that I told you to keep :P
These are total light vehicle sales (in millions of units) of domestic
and import car and trucks broken down by automatic and manual
transmissions:
Year Automatic % Manual % Total
1985 10,021,482 77.6% 2,887,171 22.4% 12,908,653
1990 10,141,794 78.7% 2,752,150 21.3% 12,893,944
1995 12,816,559 83.1% 2,602,211 16.9% 15,418,770
2000 15,995,874 90.0% 1,785,377 10.0% 17,781,251
2001 14,898,961 90.6% 1,540,618 9.4% 16,439,579
2003 16,752,979 92.6% 1,335,531 7.3% 18,088,510
I guess we should keep in mind the oil crisis around 84 when people were buying more small cars many with standard trans.
I don't know, like Richard says, I just try to report the facts. :confuse: (Question marks)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There seems to be a movement to make cars as ugly as possible. I guess it is a contest to see who's car will make a bigger impression. The Cube and Scion are possible contenders for the ugly prize as well.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yup, and he did it for just $10.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm not a big fan of the whole "cubism" thing....or the ugly mug look. However, I did drive a rental Kia Soul for a week while I was working out of town. Gotta say, that's an impressive driving little vehicle. Comfy. Handled well. Then, I see ads in the newspaper stating that the sell for under $15K....impressive.
An acquaintance of mine has a Mini. Interesting vehicles, except that all the controls are, at best, confounding to understand and to use.
unless it is a home market trend, and they are just extending it to the US?
At least these freak mobiles tend to have a great utility quotient per $/size!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
After over 30 years driving in the congestion of the metropolitan Chicago area I can attest that that is not the case. Trucks get caught up in the congestion as much as a car.
Again the majority of the congestion is far more traffic using the road than the road can effectively handle at posted speed limits. FWIW your example is proven invalid by the simple fact that expressways with no traffic lights or stop signs experience stop and go traffic. A single lane of highway can only have about 25 cars per mile on it and maintain proper following distance. Thats not a lot when you have a few million people trying to get to and from work all within a couple of hours of each other.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Look at their clothes.
Look at their hair.
Listen to their music.
Your question will be answered.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wonder who can live with these cars too,...is it an "up yours" attitude, I am driving this ugly car but you have to look at it? Or is it trying to be different? Is it supposed to be like those big ugly radios that are supposed to look like they were made on another planet? It would be interesting to get a psychiatrists opinion.
They were discussing the fact that in a study done in Europe, BMW drivers are perceived to be the angriest, followed by Rover, Audi and MB. Some of the callers attribute it to the fact the cars handle better so you can go faster without noticing it. Some said owners of these cars are higher income people and have businesses and time matters so they drive more aggressively. One young lady said her father drove a BMW and he was the kindest man she knew and none of this was true.
It would be interesting to get a profile of why people buy what they do in the USA.
I remember in about 1959 reading that Pontiacs were for house wifes and slow drivers...they seemed to change their image after that, maybe because of that article.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now this an extreme of disciplined driving and lane discipline, but I'm using it as one last ditch attempt that I might get you to grasp my theory. My point is, is that with enough competence and discipline behind the wheel, very high numbers of traffic can share a roadway with far better flow characteristics than we witness in this 'me-first' world of cellphones glued to the ear and others applying makeup at the same time, who only follow each other like sheep, if they all are in better tune with the cars around each other (anticipating idiotic moves) but especially the car in front and to a much lesser degree, the one behind you. Each one not being able to grasp 'flow'. And the odd one that attempts flow thinking, just has the gap in front they create, filled in by one of the me-first selfish 'drivers'. This is another example of where lane discipline comes into play. Even in that scenario, backing out of it and still trying to maintain, let's say a tightened-up space a little, still allows for better flow than the constant stop and go and all the reaction time each of those, multiplied by those thousands of vehicles.
This is what 'good' truckers do, everyday of their lives as they find themselves in the middle of a rush hour going through any major city. But understand at least one thing ok? The discipline of backing out of it in the effort to maintain flow, does NOT mean they are going in reverse! They still have forward motion, but without the reaction time of each stop and go. No one can rightly argue that, flow, even if at reduced speeds, is slower than stop and go spurts. (which really aren't spurts at all in those times) Technically, yes, I admit the scenario is filled with grey if someone wants to go on endlessly debating the parameters and what-ifs, especially when attempting to support one's point on email.
Perhaps in that case, consider what can be accomplished on a crowded race track of disciplined and competent drivers. Dumb down the scale and still realize the point I'm trying to make. If you don't get it/agree, fine I'll drop it here.
But only because of rubber-necking, road-raging, nonexistent lane disciplined, me-first attitudes.
FYI, I do not live in the city any more. I used to truck down there and all up and down the eastern seaboard of the USA (altho never made it to Chicago, but got close one day) I've been in the very scenarios I have been describing. And recently and occasionally I find myself down in the city in the thick of things still to this day only in a car now. But I have noticed I am not the only one practicing 'flow'. There is a distinct greater number of motorists that have caught onto it. Some are trying to save fuel, others have been rear-ended and suffer whiplash every day of their lives and are trying to avoid it again, and others still have figured out that it is a less stressful, safer, and faster way to commute. If only more drivers could get onboard sooner rather than later. But like I say, the numbers of these deserved drivers practicing flow styles, are on the increase.
And that's a good thing.
I thought the Pacer was kind of cool for the time. AMC was desperate and was trying some pretty radical styles in hopes of attracting buyers. I still remember the Pacer commercial where two guys were making a giant submarine sandwich in the back seat as a way to demonstrate how roomy the car was.
Ford later came out with it's own big sandwich commercial. Very funny.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Being from Virginia Beach and 3 hour rush hours every day we find this location a breath of fresh air.
I once saw 4 cars at our red light. Commented to my wife "look, honey a traffic jam"
We both got a good laugh from that.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
That sounds like typical rush hour traffic where I live, except there is no computer controlling things and people are yacking on the phone, putting on makeup and eating while they do it. As often as not someone applies their brakes and the train derails with a bunch of mangled fenders.
I just have to shake my head as these tailgaters stand by the side of the road with traffic backed up for miles around them and no doubt complain about all the "bad drivers" who caused the mess. :sick:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I have to agree, that if more drivers used good driving techniques, traffic would move faster. On my way home on Friday, I was on a highway with 3 lanes in each direction. There was a traffic jam and we moved slowly - stop n go for about 4 miles. When we got to the obstruction there was a police car with his lights flashing and a new Caddie pulled over on the side of the road (it wasn't Richard's).
I really try to ignore whatever has happened in these situations. But, human nature being what it is, everyone has to look. And, I think people feel entitled, since they waited they will make others wait.
Before any one says, well I slowed down to look, I really didn't. I could see it but I just kept moving like it wasn't there, I discipline myself to do that because I don't like gawkers, so I don't want to be one.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As usual he is right and the rest of us are wrong....
Yes I do tire of your posts....
Just don't stop to close to any wooded areas....he is in Deliverance Country. Be very careful if you see some guys with banjos!
(I know, they are closer to Richard's neck of the woods but You are in a secluded area. We lived out on a farm (not a real farm but a tree farm - 100 acres), and I find I prefer to be in the city, traffic jams and all.
At least I see some people every day, and I think there is something to that thing about safety in numbers. In the country it would be a 20 minute ride just to get to civilization...which meant you had to drive 20 minutes every day just to go somewhere, and if you had to go back into town another trip...that's 40 minutes X 2 total. Then, if you have to run out to the store to get something because you find out someone is coming over....and don't get me started on how you have to plan it right if you want to bring back some ice cream or frozen foods.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now, now! Let's play nice. Just remember that you're not obligated to read anything you don't want to read.
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