Stories from the Sales Frontlines

snakeweasel

Now this an extreme of disciplined driving and lane discipline

But it is a poor example since as soon as the first vehicle sees the hazard every vehicle "sees" it and is reacting to it. It's what? A millisecond between the first vehicle seeing the hazard and the last vehicle reacting. So unless all the drivers on the road are psychically attached and can react instantly then you will never see anything anywhere near that regardless of how well every driver drives.

but I'm using it as one last ditch attempt that I might get you to grasp my theory

Oh I grasph your theory, I just think that the majority of your theory is wrong.

I think your theory is insulting

I think your theory is elitist.

I think your theory is demeaning.

Your original post on this stated that since people don't learn to drive a stick they are either lazy and/or stupid drivers. And that is the reason we get things like traffic jams. Let me tell you this, I could probably drive circles around you and I drive an auto (Although I do know how to drive a stick) and I know one person who can drive circles around me and he cannot drive a stick. I have know people who drive sticks exclusive that didn't know much about the actual dynamics of driving.

I am getting tired about the attitude some people seem to have here. Stuff like if you don't like the feel of the road (read a rougher ride) or if you think a car can have to much horse power that your not a true car enthusiast. And of course how drivers who drive an auto don't know how to drive. All these simply are not true

Now back to your "theory" congestion comes mostly from to many in to small a space. Next time you are at a party with a large number of people try an experiment. Have everyone in a room and have one or two people go through a door to another room. It's quick and easy. Now have everyone go through that door ate the same time. Not so quick and easy. Same thing with roads, why do you think you get traffic slowing down when lanes end?

This is not to say that peoples driving skills don't need improvement but 1.) the best driving by everyone will not keep congestion away if you cram more cars on the road and 2.) peoples driving skills are not as bad as you portray.

Perhaps in that case, consider what can be accomplished on a crowded race track of disciplined and competent drivers.

Yeah its hard to get through one race without some type of accident.

snakeweasel

There is a distinct greater number of motorists that have caught onto it.

I don't think that there really was anything that people needed to catch on to. You are most likely talking where traffic is heavy but still moves along. I am talking where traffic is much heavier and you are lucky when a 4 lane limited access highway goes over 25 MPH.

Tell you what, come to Chicago someday and we will go downtown, then at 3 or 4 on a weekday afternoon we can take the Stevenson expressway to the Southwest Suburbs. That little 30 mile trip often takes well over an hour (right now on Sunday afternoon its about 24 minutes).

snakeweasel

On my way home on Friday, I was on a highway with 3 lanes in each direction. There was a traffic jam and we moved slowly - stop n go for about 4 miles

I face that every day going to work in the morning. Only there are no accidents or construction or anything like that causing it. Just a whole lot of cars trying to use it at one time.

snakeweasel

I never said the rest of you are wrong, until you chimed in only gimmestdtranny stated that I was wrong. I would suspect that some would agree with gimmestdtranny, but others would agree with me.

crkyolfrt

I'm not going to entertain you further. For one thing, your comment about racers having crashes is nothing short of ridiculous.

But one thing really stands out in your posts. You insert words (and your own mis-directed meanings/interpretations) in other's mouths. Do you really get a sense of satisfaction debating that way? It seems so weak and ultimately unfulfilling. IMO

snakeweasel

For one thing, your comment about racers having crashes is nothing short of ridiculous.

No, you used racers as an example to support your claim, I was just showing how ridiculous that example was.

You insert words (and your own mis-directed meanings/interpretations) in other's mouths.

Like?

isellhondas

Before another forum gets shut down.

Some people just can't back off!

Sandman6472

I guess we should agree to disagree and move on. I, personally, prefer an auto tranny and like the ease of driving. Others prefer a stick. Good for them. Maybe we should just agree to disagree & move on here.

It's Halloween folks...Happy Halloween!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

isellhondas

Or start a " Sticks Only" forum!

oldfarmer50

I don't check my e-mail very often since I don't use the computer for much more than research. Imagine my shock when I found no fewer than SIX messages from our host of hosts Karens telling me about changes to the Edmunds site. They all said the same thing over and over all within the space of about 20 minutes.

I don't know how to handle this, I've never had a stalker before.

Maybe Karens has been talking to Mrs. Farmer who says that she has to tell me a thing a half-dozen times before I'll listen.

crkyolfrt

I too laughed right out loud about your traffic jam comment. I would love to check out Virginia...especially on the bike. The last time I was down there it was at the business-end of a steering wheel with a flatbed load of precast concrete going to a big office complex. Some town...started with an R i think...many years and miles ago. back in 79 or 80

Beautiful country. A bike racers dream place to ride.

Although...driver's comment about Deliverance gave me a pause or two, hahaha

Driver, I'll stay take the country over the city. If we go for walk while the bears are out and about, I just take my little limbing saw (chainsaw) it's light to carry and they don't like the sharp loud noise of it. Beats having to carry a 9mm on the streets of Chicago, lol

imidazol97

>start a " Sticks Only" forum!

We could call it "Stick it!"

oldfarmer50

I think a few of us have gotten into the Halloween candy a little too heavy. :sick:

gogiboy

" A few hundred posts ago someone said they wouldn't buy a car that used premium fuel because of the higher cost."

Driver--

It was me that said that I wouldn't buy a car that required premium fuel, but I was being facetious, which can be hard to convey while writing. I think I compared premium fuel to fluoridated water and said it was another communist plot. I most often see premium gas on performance cars, but am guessing that the buyers of those cars are willing to make the trade-off.

I'm one of those less-than-10% drivers who drives manuals. Both of my current cars have sticks and my previous daily driver was also a stick. I used to argue it was for improved mileage, but now use the justification that the sticks make me a more engaged driver--at least in city and suburban driving. Plus I'm cheap, but prefer the term parsimonious because it sounds more dignified.

Oh, for what it's worth, all five of my bicycles have manual transmissions and, yes, there are some prototype automatics out there. Now if I could just upgrade the bicycles' engine to include more horsepower, but that will require performance enhancing drugs.

Gogiboy

sterlingdog

Let's not be too hard on people who live in rural or secluded areas. I am your prime example of one who lives that 20 minutes from town. Our village consists of about 900 homes surrounded by eight lakes and thousands of pine trees. Street lights are strictly forbidden. Residents here enjoy viewing the night sky. You are correct about the shopping. We do have to plan our grocery list carefully. We can't just run to the store at the drop of a hat. It is true that we have to buy the ice cream and frozen foods at our last stop of the day. If we do run out of butter, sugar, or eggs, we just ask a neighbor to loan us some until we go to town. We don't even have a post office. We share our zip code with the nearest town.

My wife and I chose this setting for several reasons: (1) It's quiet. (2) There is little traffic. If a car comes by our house, they either live on the street or a neighbor is about to have a visitor. (3) You can drive your golf cart throughout the village---to the lakes, parks, country club, village hall, boat docks, golf courses, etc. (4) Crime rate---0.1% because a villager borrowed a bicycle without asking which resulted in a call to the police. We have a very nice fire department and a police force of 8 officers. With no street lights, you would expect crime. Not so. It's too dark for a burglar to find the houses very easily. I do have 8 flood lights installed on the house, large lanterns at the bottom of the drive, and electrical walk way lights from the drive to the front door. Unless we expect company, we never use any of them. When we drive in at night, the garage lights come on as we approach the house. I tell people to call before they come out at night. It's hard to find the house in the dark. We only use our security system if we leave for an over night stay.

After 40 years of commuting, working, and rushing around, we like this new style. It is a definite "stop and smell the roses" environment.

Richard

snakeweasel

There is a forum titled something like "The future of the manual transmission".

gogiboy

Driver--

It appears that the AMC Pacer was way ahead of its time and would be a worth competitor to the Nissan Cube and the yellow Scion blobbette (or whatever it's called). Too bad that AMC's out of business. To be a 2011 contender the Pacer needs larger wheels, however. One of my friends in college had one. Riding inside was akin to being in a fishbowl minus the water--unless it rained.

I much prefer the Aston Martin DB5 from the movie Goldfinger that just sold at auction for $4.1 million. I would need to reconnect the machine guns and ejector seat to satisfy my bouts of road rage.

Gogiboy

snakeweasel

Now if I could just upgrade the bicycles' engine to include more horsepower, but that will require performance enhancing drugs.

No, just a good training plan.

I tell you its great riding up a hill passing kids less than half your age walking their bikes up.

gogiboy

I'm not a big fan of the whole "cubism" thing....or the ugly mug look."

GG--

Me either. My wife flatly refused to even sit in a Honda Element when we were looking at cars back in 2004 saying that she couldn't been seen in such a car. Fast forward to 2010 where we need a replacement for her Rav4 that I crashed. Her choice: The boxy Scion xB. Ours is not to reason why!

I will say that although the car is not attractive it has a ton of pep for a 4 cylinder and has a deceptively cavernous interior space that is bigger than some much larger cars and SUVs and backseat riders have a ton of leg and headroom--I would say it compares favorably with many full size sedans. The flip side is that it does have a cheap looking (and feeling) interior and doesn't get very good gas mileage for a small vehicle.

Not really my cup of tea, but most of us have a long list of stuff we wouldn't want to own or even be seen it. When her students ask her what she drives she tells them "A Pink Hummer", which is the height of iconoclasm to the testosterone-heavy, OK truck crowd

Gogiboy

driver100

I don't know how to handle this, I've never had a stalker before

Don't get too excited, I got 6 coies too. Guess it is just for people with thick skulls.

sterlingdog

I got six of those messages as well! Karens really means for us to understand the changes on December 9th. Just think. If it turns out like the emotorcons, we may never "see" one another again. We had better prepare our farewell addresses for December 9th just in case.

Richard

gogiboy

"No, just a good training plan.

I tell you its great riding up a hill passing kids less than half your age walking their bikes up."

Yes, that is satisfying, Snake, and does happen with some frequency, but I'm never sure whether I should really feel superior or if the folks I am passing are so pathetically out of shape that they will be soon be assisted by paramedics.

Last year I passed a guy on a hill who was riding with (I guess) his girlfriend. He was on an expensive road bike and I was on my fairly heavy commuter special with a rack and at least 15 lbs of extra gear in the rear cargo bag. Boy was he pissed. He catches and passes me on the downhill; then I pass him again on the next hill so he furiously pedals and finally passes me at the crest near the intersection where we both have to stop. By this time his girlfriend is a mere speck in the distance behind us. He must have figured he was in hot water and pulled a 180 to rejoin her having proved his obvious superiority. You know, I was just riding at my normal speed on my usual commute home, but he apparently saw it as some kind of affront to his cycling prowess or manhood. Road rage?

Gogiboy

driver100

I remember one of the big problems with the Pacer was it was supposed to be a small economy car, but, they forgot to cut out some of the weight...those huge windows really added to the overall weight.

Here is a Aston Martin DB5 dream car


Unfortunately the Aston Martin Lagonda also made the Top 20 ugly list.

crkyolfrt

"By this time his girlfriend is a mere speck in the distance behind us"

another outloud belly laugh....testosterone, gotta love it

driver100

. We had better prepare our farewell addresses for December 9th just in case.

Good idea! We should have an action plan. Maybe go to Facebook and look up;
"Anything but Stories from the Salesfrontlines"

snakeweasel

I had a situation on my bike like that. We kept passing each other and one time he passed me he mentioned something about us drafting each other.

The reality of the situation was that he was passing me on the flats and downhill and I was passing him on the upgrades and the couple of times we started off from a stoplight. In short he was better at the flats and downhill and I was better at the uphills and starts. This other guy seemed to realize this too.

sterlingdog

In my greeting, I should have warned you that things can get a bit sticky at times on this thread. You have to be thick skinned to survive. As I said, Snake gives his distinct views and lets the chips fall where they fall. He's really a nice guy---has to be because he drives a convertible just like mine except for the color.

Actually, I found both views very interesting. I realize that a trucker would possibly have a different perspective on traffic and driving. I can understand that they probably see a lot of mistakes by those who drive cars. On the other hand, I can appreciate Snake's view on driving in a city the size of Chicago. It's not something that I would find easy or pleasurable to do each day.

Happy Halloween to all! The ghosts and goblins will be here in a couple of hours.

Richard

driver100

but he apparently saw it as some kind of affront to his cycling prowess or manhood. Road rage?

I have heard a lot about "Road Rage". That is the first time I have heard of "Bike Rage". I thought bikes were for peace loving people.

sterlingdog

I can beat that one. We even have "golf cart" rage. Not long ago, a woman driving her golf cart ran her husband in the ditch while he was driving his own golf cart. It turns out that the old fool was flirting with the club waitress after a golf game. His wife, coming in the club from her own game, saw him and planned her revenge. We all howled when we heard the story.

Richard

jayrider

Learned to drive a stick in Western Pa. Lovely stop lights on steep grades with traffic behind you. Some of the roads were still brick which was even more fun when they were wet. Lots of sticks back in 1960 -- no syncromesh and heavy clutches. Kind of a rite of passage -- all the guys I hung out with could handle them after many a stall. Learned to double clutch my Dad's 27 Cadillac Coupe. Hadn't driven one since 2002 -- helped my sister move her Mini around the back of the house in August. Smooth as silk. Took it for a spin --- still have it but won't be buying another. If someone gave me a 6 speed tsx though, I'd love to putter around for a while. Not in a traffic jam thank you. Be 65 soon and need no unnecessary distractions. Set it and forget it.
Bought my son his first car. 1985 toyota celica gt with a 6 speed. Took him to a big parking lot on a sunday . Sat in a lawn chair in the shade and let him have at it. Learned quick --- youth and motivation is a nice combo.

stickguy

reminds me of where I grew up (in new york). there was one hill in town that was like the graduate school course. If you could master that one, you could drive a stick.

it was where a road came to a tee, and where you had to stop was extremely steep, as in you were kind of looking at the sky. really needed some footwork to keep from rolling back on that one.

Pretty sure my sister (we all learned on a stick, the only car in the family) just drove out of her way for years to avoid that intersection!

even today, 30 years later (oh geez, 32!) that corner still get the adrenalin pumping. and especially fun in the snow or rain.

houdini1

Shoot, I thought the world was not supposed to end until Dec. of 2012.

houdini1

Richard, thanks for analyzing my writing style. I have been trying to figure it out for years.

By the way, from your post that I am replying to (and many others) I would have to say that your style is "diplomacy" !! Sort of the opposite of our friend Snake !!

driver100

We even have "golf cart" rage. Not long ago, a woman driving her golf cart ran her husband in the ditch

That's too funny. Any one got a walker rage story?

crkyolfrt

Not to stress or be concerned in the least, Richard. (although I appreciate your kindness...you are such a decent chap) This forum is one of the most rewarding ones (in it's own way) I have ever joined. I appreciate the humour, knowledge, opinions, insight, and even some of the controversy to a certain extent. In 8.5 years of internet (yes I'm a late comer) I think one of the most common things we do with each other on a forum is to too quickly size up each other and our individual capabilities/knowledge. More often than not we can get it very wrong because we don't invest enough time to see if we prejudged incorrectly. We are all very human and display the most human of traits, be them good or testy at times. I only wish I could sit down with every single one of you guys next Sunday and share a few laughs over a beer and shot. Or a coffee or a spring water. It's all good. Due to geography, likely driver100 will be the first one I'll be able to do this with. Maybe next summer I'll jump on the bike and head south for a visit.

My thoughts about std trannies got derailed somehow onto traffic flow in congested areas. Not sure how it happened. I'm passionate about both topics. It'll likely happen again, so ya'll have been warned, haha..

Regarding your cold bug you and the Mrs are fighting. Me too, but I have had total success by jamming the vitamin C to it big time. Use non time release pills. Best is 250 mg each or break up higher content ones and take 'em every 30 minutes or so with lots of water. When I realized I picked a bug up, I hammered myself with 8000 milligrams/day to start, then as it worked it's magic, tapered off to 4000, and today I think (2 weeks later) I am down to 3500. (you don't drop big dose Vit C quickly due to scurvy potential, altho fairly rare in todays varied diets. If you suspect a kidney weakness as your doc first about those doses.

crkyolfrt

same here when I read that, lol
that little woman was a force to be reckoned with, heeheehee

there might be a walking/bicycle sidewalk story in store for us. Surely one of us has one of those?

I have heard of bike rage tho...we even had a full blown incident involving the courts with a gvt guy and a pedestrian/bicyclist last year. car and a bike...car driver (gvt guy) peeled the biker off the side of his car with a paperbox. That musta hurt, eh?

jipster

Though the Mazda minivan is not a chick magnet, it is a metallic one it seems. Tire was flat yesterday morning. Took it to Big O Tires... again. The manager was reluctant to look at it saying since it had a staple in it last time, it probably just didn't hold, saying they aren't suppose to try repairing that type of puncture. Too small to plug. I commented that the Goodyear Tripletred was a expensive tire. He priced it, looked at used, then said he would look at it just in case it had a nail. Good news he says, he has a nail. They repaired the tire. I checked the tire pressure this morning, and it was about 6 lbs over max recommended. Still, it was repaired free, so I'm happy.

sterlingdog

If the world ends here in December, I still know how to find you until 2012. (Wink)

Richard

sterlingdog

Can't do the Vitamin C doses because my urologist limits my intake due to trouble with calcium kidney stones. Zinc is very good as a preventative, but I had been slack on my daily dose of it. We're both feeling better now. Glad that you are recovering nicely.

Richard

sterlingdog

I see that the Jipster Method also works well when dealing with the tire industry.

Richard

imidazol97

>If the world ends here in December

What's happening in December? I didn't get any emails...

houdini1

Ten Four good buddy. Any of you guys still remember all the fun we had with CB radios before cell phones came along !!

I used to travel the state of Oklahoma back in the 70's and I used to laugh myself silly listening to all the gabble and jawing back and forth with the truckers. My "handle" back then....the one, the only, the world famous...Houdini !!

houdini1

I didn't get any emails either but apparently big changes are on the way. I think Kirstie and Tidester are taking over the entire Edmund's operation and this will be the only forum they keep.

fezo

reminds me of where I grew up (in new york). there was one hill in town that was like the graduate school course. If you could master that one, you could drive a stick.

I lived on that hill - in northern NJ.

Hi, folks. Down here at Orange Lake just up the road from Disney. Am in a rental G6 which looks better than many of the cars recently discussed here and is living proof that it's really difficult to get a car that sucks anymore. Kind of ironic that I get a Pontiac on the day that the brand officially died. Technically there were still Pontiac dealers through today even though it's been a year since one was made. I was good. I told the rental agent "they don't exist anymore! What's next? An Edsel?" This was lost on him.

The car isn't exactly what I would design but it's perfectly fine in a car with no personality in it. Pretty quiet, kind of average handling and an interior that looked like it was kind of out of the Reagan administration but it does the job.

Had the 9 year old trick or treating in Downtown Disney. One friendly word to any of you with kids young enough for that - DON'T DO IT!!

Will check in when I can.

crkyolfrt

"DON'T DO IT"

begs the question why not?

I did the reverse trick or treat tonight. Because I live in the bush, I walked out to my two closest neighbours with kids. I had just finished cuttin' a bit of wood and brought 1 load out before the snow hits. Haven't been able to do any of that for weeks but took it real easy. Had my old overalls and my stupid looking but comfy hat on. Can't find one like it anymore, the liner has long ago disintegrated, but it still has some fake fur on the ear flaps, and the ear muffs fit well with it and my safety gklasses. And it's gettin' cold now with some scattering of snow flakes so it helps keep some heat in where my lack of hair leaves off.

So I show up (first Halloween ever cuz there are new little gappers this year moved into area) and must have looked a sight. I told them "reverse trick or treat and no this isn't my costume" even tho i'm sure it must have looked like one.
They said it's the first time candy ever came to them. lol
Ya, I never have beat to a drum that's familiar to the masses..
I got the best welcome from the dogs. And they can't have chocolate. I was wishing I had brought some dog bones I had in the freezer.

But like Christmas or Hanukkah, Halloween is for the kids. And they didn't just get kisses, they got the real deal....mini Coffee Crisps, Snickers, M&M's etc.

fezo

Sounds like I should live in your neighborhood. Yum!

Downtown Disney was packed like sardines and any place that was doing trick or treat had a big line for candy most of us would be embarrassed to give out at Halloween. That said the kids had a good time with it and they and I will both be better off without the usual Halloween haul.

Watching the World Series down here. Tomorrow will be a pool and such day with Tuesday being teh first day of the real Disney assault.

Richard - loved the description of where you live. Years ago in a previous house the neighbor talked the town into putting a streetlight by our driveway and told me about it proudly. I told him I wished he hadn't. Night is supposed to be dark!

tidester

There is a forum titled something like "The future of the manual transmission".

You can find that discussion here: The Future Of The Manual Transmission

It would be a REALLY good place to continue the discussion.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester

I got six of those messages as well!

If I am not mistaken, the number of letters that went out were in proportion to the number of grammatical errors each member catches in a month. :P

The other category had something to do with the ratio of on topic to off topic postings but I don't think that one kicked in.

JUST KIDDING!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

mako1a

If the world ends here in December
What's happening in December? I didn't get any emails...

According to the Mayan Calendar, 21 December, 2012 is the end of time keeping
as a new planetary alignment will usher in major changes to earth.

ps I got the 6 in 1 email also as it went out to carspace subscribers.

tidester

I hammered myself with 8000 milligrams/day to start, then as it worked it's magic, tapered off to 4000, and today I think (2 weeks later) I am down to 3500.

If you have already contracted a bug or a cold then it's too late to start taking vitamin C. Incidentally, colds and bugs typically run their course all on their own within 10 days to 2 weeks so I don't think any "magic" happened.

If I recall correctly, the first major proponent of using vitamin C to ward off colds was Linus Pauling who recommended taking high doses of it every day - forever.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper