Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Good advice on the shoes. I've gotten to where I only wear New Balance cross trainers. Supportive and comfortable. The only time I'm wearing anything else (other than sandals or moccasins) is at funerals and weddings. Even there I have Rockports that are built like an athletic shoe but styled like a dress shoe on top.

    Those cortisone shots can be great. I've had a few of those. Hurt like the dickens going in but provide immediate relief. As stated earlier they can only be given in intervals of maybe six weeks. Too much cortisone is a bad thing.

    Have they checked your spine for herniated discs and such? I've had that in my neck and it radiated down my right arm. Physical therapy did wonders.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    you posting and you seeing your post but no one else does until your ability to edit for about 30 minutes after posting, expires

    Are all posts delayed or only when editing? It seems to me I usually do a post, and somebody has replied pretty quickly....especially when they shoot me down. :cry: (cry).

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    biz guys here at Edmunds knew all along that a demo is not a new car and therefore, it is used.

    Don't say "used", it is "previously owned". And, while we are on the topic, don't say "salesman", it is "sales consultant". Next thing you know, it will be your "car buddy".

    "Just a minute sir, and I will see that you will be served by your car buddy Marvin".

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, you mean the sales adviser! "I'd advise you to buy this car. My best advice is to pay sticker. You should absolutely get all the mop and glow> I'd advice you to get an extended warranty.".....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm glad you found this forum, Sandman but you've been around in other forums for so many years I gues I thought you were always here too.

    Heck, I've "known" you back before you put all of those numbers behind your username!
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Heck, I've "known" you back before you put all of those numbers behind your username!

    Are all those numbers because there are "underscore 6471" other sandmen?(sandman_6472]

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,657
    And sir, I have to respect your screen name!

    use the watch function. That way, when you click read new posts, if anything posted while you were typing in a post, it will automatically take you up to see the unread posts that popped in before yours.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    "Are all posts delayed or only when editing? "

    That's right, driver, thanks.

    Sandman, I hope you see driver's post here, cuz I think he hit nail on head and I mighta given you not totally correct advice. The missed posts can happen if an edit is involved. Likely immediate if no edit.

    (I realized later that I recognized your screen name from your other posts on Edmunds. Always enjoyed them...so you likely know about the potential delay anyway).
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    ha ha , I like yours too! Wish I'd thought of it.

    You know, I acknowledge that they are making autos better and better (in theory/performance/economy potential) but to do so they are using a pile of electronics, which require good wire connections even in salty climates, the right software installs (that 'stick' and not 'get lost' when batteries get undone etc etc etc), and a host of other criteria that can all go in the toilet at any given time.

    Standard trannys though, are lighter, cost less, usually last waaay longer (including the clutch if you learn good habits from the start) and you always know what you got. How could any car, no matter how sophisticated, actually know what gear I want better than me at any given time??
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Good point, but pretty big line-ups for the MRI machines.

    I'm noticing the acupuncture (he had voltage going through the needles on last visit, apparently arm was twitching a fair bit) seems to be bringing the electrical charges/with pain most times I feel in my hand and lower back, to the surface. I have even noticed it spread to my left arm and left upper leg depending on how I move. I still think problem is in lower back but the experts say neck so...
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Thats odd as Nikon came out with a model number 4 several years ago.

    That's right. Nikon's F series was/is the professional 35mm standard. They started with the F and went through F6 (still available), not skipping the F4.

    Maybe Nikon is really a Norwegian company. ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There's an episode of "King of Queens" where Doug gets suckered into a "water filtration" MLM by his flaky neighbor. When it doesn't work out, he goes over to his neighbor's house to get his investment back and the house is empty except for a few water filter boxes.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Does anybody ever have dreams about driving certain cars? I have some really weird ones. The other night I had a dream I had both an old blue Toyota Cressida and a beige 1979 Mercury Marquis! Other times it was a red mid-80s Ford F-150 pickup truck and a 1960 Chrysler convertible. One time it was a 1947 International panel truck!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2010
    Ah...you can get professional help for that you know. ;)

    I don't dream about cars but about once a year I have thie eerie dream that I'm back in high school. I'm walking down the halls and I recognize the faces of the kids walking in the opposite direction. I walk up to my locker but I can't remember the combination. I'm trying to remember which class I'm heading to.

    It's a strange dream with amazing detail.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,248
    I got locked in the dungeon for awhile after recommending the Aztek as a "used car best bet." Who knew?

    Nah... I've been really busy over in Sedans, so though i read posts here, I don't always get the chance to comment. My comments are mostly reserved for troublemakers at the moment. I've also been busy contemplating my next vehicle purchase - which vehicle, and when to jump.

    Here's the puzzle: I have one payment left on my 2003 Infiniti G35. I really didn't want to spend another bad midwest winter in this vehicle, but since we have a truck as a 3rd vehicle, it's not the end of the world. Plus, the car has given me absolutely zero headaches repair-wise. Not a darn thing has gone wrong with it.

    I'll probably (but not certainly) end up with a small SUV. We need a vehicle that can seat 5 on occasion, and would like it to have (very) light towing ability. My feeling is that doing that trade during the winter would result in a lower trade-in value for my RWD vehicle, and a higher selling price for anything 4WD. I'm also debating on whether to go nearly-new, or go with the no car payment plan for awhile and just buy something older. I'm now putting under 10K / yr on my vehicle, so thinking I might be able to live with the latter.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Gee, in your case dreaming about driving a Toyota must have made you break out in a cold sweat......
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2010
    No real good advise but not having a car payment is always a nice feeling and if you can get by using your truck that might be the way to go.

    Investing in a nice set of winter tires might be a good thing to do too.

    No troublemakers here for you to get after. Not since I reformed.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,248
    Well, there are two scenarios under which I wouldn't have a car payment - the first entails keeping my G35, and the second entails selling it and purchasing a used vehicle for what I've got in cash.

    I probably just need to bite the bullet and set my feet on some lots to see what's out there. I'm in a rural area outside a larger city, and there's an abundance of BHPH lots right near my house. The side of the city I'm on is largely blue collar, and sadly a lot of folks have been hit by declines in construction & manufacturing. A lot of repos to be had. I don't mind buying from a BHPH lot as long as I'm not financing there, and the vehicle checks out OK, but those lots seem chock full o' cars, so I *might* be able to get a decent deal.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    I hope you see driver's post here, cuz I think he hit nail on head and I mighta given you not totally correct advice.

    gimme, please pass this post on to verdugo, he always thinks I am wrong about everything. (ha ha)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    . I'm also debating on whether to go nearly-new

    There's another good phrase to avoid using the word "used". I guess dealers could be more creative, like that car with 2000 miles could have been "nicely broken in". If they used that phrase they probably could have charged extra over MSRP for it.

    Kirstie, have you considered an Aztek? You can get one for a really good price.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,154
    kirstie...I think I've mentioned, I have a friend who owns a BHPH lot. While most of what he has is geared towards 6 month ownership averages (before he repos it), he's always at the auctions.

    If you get close to one of those BHPH owners, tell him/her what your looking for. I'm sure they run across nice AWD vehicles all the time. On top of that, I'm sure your G would make a nice crowning jewel sitting in the front row of tha BHPH lot.

    Good luck
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,251
    Thanks for the nice welcome...I've been in Edmunds for years but had some login problems a while back...thus the tweaking of my name. The "6472" is our house number, I'm not that creative! But yes, cars are my passion since I could stand and come here daily and now since I've just retired, got more time to read & post.

    Like some of y'all, I've got major spinal issues due to an on the job injury back in 2005. Walking is difficult so I use a cane/walker depending on the day. Started to walk a little bit more, as the pain doc said to get out & move more. I do take heavy meds, morphine & a couple others, just to be able to move. Chronic pain is a [non-permissible content removed] and those who have it know what I'm talking about.

    On the "demos" discussion, my folks used to buy these in the late '70's & '80's and were always told up front about them & the mileage and always got a discount off the price since they were not "new" vehicles. They went into the transaction knowing exactly the cars status. They were into Pontiac's & finally Grand Marquis. Grew up with Cadillacs every 2 years but the family business leased them. After the business was sold, they didn't need the fancy cars as it came out of their pockets though they could've still bought the luxo cars with no problem...$ was never an issue for them I guess.

    Have no stories off the top of my head but will go into the memory banks to see what I do remember. Give me some time on this. Am just 2 weeks into my retirement from Uncle Sam and still feeling my way around with all my free time!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2010
    A few years back, one of our sales guys had a young girl turn left directly in front of him on a dark rainy night. His demo happened to be a Ridgeline.

    Yes, he did get hurt and he spent several painful months going to doctors and in for therapy. He says he still suffers sometimes.

    Damage to the Ridgeline was over 15,000.

    We took it to the best shop in town. This is the same shop the local Mercedes dealer uses. It was in the shop for over a month.

    Only factory parts (of course) were used and when the Ridgeline came back it was as perfect as can be. It drove as a new car. Had no rattles pulls or anything else.

    Since this Ridgeline had 10,000 miles and had been registered to the guy who had it on an internal one year lease, it ended up on our used car lot as a used car when the lease ended.

    Because of the accident, we sucked it up and advertised the Ridgeline with full disclosure for about 3000.00 less than it would have been.

    We had a file folder full of receipts, the police report and pictures of the Ridgeline after it was hit.

    A few people were afraid of it and wouldn't buy it. The guy who did buy it said he knew the reputation of the body shop and he was delighted to have bought a nice Ridgeline for far below the market value. He said he planned to drive it ten years and didn't worry about it's diminished value later down the road.

    We had him sign the disclosure and he drove out a very happy man!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Well, you probably don't need a new (to you) car, but so what !! We all get tired of driving the same old car after a while.

    I have always felt that at least half the fun was in the chase when buying a car, (amongst other things) so enjoy the chase and I hope you find something that you just can't live without.

    I saw a nice Rav 4 today and this was the first one I have seen that did not have the spare tire tacked onto the back. Not having the tire there really helped the looks. Maybe it was a 2011. Not sure.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The best reason to buy a demo isn't the price discount but rather it has to be a car you really want -- model-options-color-etc. You don't like the new ones on the lot so whether there is a substantial extra discout is not much of a factor. I'd rather have a car that rings my chimes with a few thousand miles on it than a new one I had to compromise on options/color for a few hundred dollars discount. Now if there is an identicle new one on the lot -- different story.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Standard trannys though, are lighter, cost less, usually last waaay longer

    In all the cars I have owned I have only had one tranny go on me. It was a standard tranny at around 80-85K. I have taken autos to the 200K mark.

    Also try my commute to work some day in a manual, You will think differently.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    edited October 2010
    Does anybody ever have dreams about driving certain cars?

    Nope but one time I couldn't shake a dream that I was driving a car that had an unintended acceleration right into the car in front of me. And this was decades before Toyota had that issue.

    One time it was a 1947 International panel truck!

    My sister had an old International Scout with right hand drive, she loved that truck.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I got locked in the dungeon for awhile after recommending the Aztek as a "used car best bet." Who knew?

    Would that be the same dungeon that they locked the Aztec's designers in?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    edited October 2010
    15 grand in damages is a lot, upwards to 50% or more of the cost of the vehicle. I would be leery of such a car unless the price was really right. While a really good shop will definitely increase your odds that there will be no issues from the accident it is still a gamble.

    Every now and again I will see a relatively new car going down the road slightly off center in its alignment and I always wonder.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,344
    "...my Infinity G35..."

    Ever consider a G35x or a G37x? That AWD might make the winters easier.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    Why do dealerships have demos? it seems like a money
    losing opportunity to have a demo because not only is the car sold for less but insurance would have to be taken into consideration.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I was in a fast food drive-thru in my Z-28 back in the late 70s.
    While reaching for my wallet with feet on clutch and brake,
    my foot slipped off the clutch to a very loud squall of tire
    (especially under the canopy). Car stopped in 3 of the 4 feet
    gap so no damage except for the guy in the 360Z in front of me
    staring fire through his rear view mirror.
    That and getting stuck in rush hour traffic for three hours with
    a heavy clutch and I'm now all A/T. Even my Polaris quad is A/T.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    With Hondas, sticks are less and less popular every year. Very few people want them and a lot of the smaller stores won't even order any.

    As used cars, anything with a stick will sit and sit.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I am not Jewish but I grew up in a neighborhood that had a very large Jewish population. That being the case I did have many Jewish friends. Now having Jewish friends and hanging around their families back in the 60's and 70's I picked up the habit of using some Yiddish phrases. I really didn't realize that I was using them to much until when I was in the service and people thought I was Jewish.

    Those service guys you served time with (I believe you’ve said you were in the Coast Guard) weren’t the most astute of the sailor bunch. Who ever heard of a kosher snake? Chickens and cows, yep. Pigs and snakes, nope.

    If your handle was porky they might have known better. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I was too busy at work today to throw in my 2 cents worth to youz guys.

    As everyone has already said you guys are very welcome here and I’m sure you each have a sales tale or two that we haven’t heard before.

    The biz guys have all but left and as a result, Richard and I have been carrying this place to the point that our backs can’t take it anymore. Between the two of us we have bought 6 cars since 2005.

    FWIW, the two of you are the toughest guys we have here so a tale or two shouldn’t bother either of you, OK.

    Again, welcome to the madness.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,251
    I might have to go that route next time as I insist on a power seat due to spinal issues. So it's either a demo or a CPO unit with some miles on it. At least with CPO, one gets the longer warranty so if any gremlins do appear, they will be covered. My side of the garage also calls for a Civic sized vehicle which could be a difficult find. Did test out the last generation Sonata with the power throne & it met most of my needs. The length might be iffy though. Will be an interesting search.

    Might even have to look for a small size like a Nissan Rogue or something similar. Like the taller seating position & bet they have the power seat option. Probably should've gone with the last generation Mazda 6i with the option value package. It included the power seat option and they were pretty comfy as I recall. Do love the last generation Lexus RX's also and their seats also rock. Have seen '05 & '06 models around the $15k area which could work. And for the amount that I drive, the premium petrol penalty wouldn't hurt that badly. Will probably get down to like 4k/year.

    The wife hates used cars but I might not have a choice as my spinal issues will only get worse. But since we finance our own transportation, it's ultimately my decision.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If I were living in a rural area with more open roads and less traffic I might be driving a stick. But I am living in a large urban area with 9 million people within an hour or so drive from me which means heavy traffic with not a lot of distance between stops. So I will be using an auto for the time being.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well snakeweasel is a family nickname I have had since I was grass high to a kneehopper. When I was in the service I got the nickname "Tall". That was because I reported to my first duty station with another guy from my boot camp company, he needed a ladder to measure 5 feet tall and I was over 6 foot 2. Hence he was called "Small" and I was called "Tall".

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Those service guys you served time with ...

    I don't mean to get into minor nuance but the expression "serve time with" ordinarily means something like "serving time in prison." I believe the expression you're looking for is to "serve with" which includes the more noble and honorable activity of working together in service for the country. Thoughts, Richard?

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Hence he was called "Small" and I was called "Tall".

    Hmmm. I was given the short-lived nickname of "Snake" in college. I was the Disciplinary Board Chairman for my dorm and the first several cases were for smoking marijuana. Some guys on my floor decided it might be fun to scrawl graffiti all over the place giving me the name "Snake" and calling me a narc. lol

    And I happen to fall into the tall category. Please tell me that's all we have in common! ;)

    Wait... I love manuals, even in traffic!! :)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,711
    My wife has had lower back problems like you and also has multiple pain injections several times per year. We found our leSabres have been very comfortable. The latest has leather seats with 10-way power including a power lumbar adjustment. We can drive to Nashville from Dayton for 6.5 - 7.0 hours with one stop for lunch at Bob Evans. I don't know if you're going to find that strong support in a smaller car.

    Maybe the new Regal or the CRUZE may have put the effort into the seat support. My plopping into other cars for real support doesn't bode well. Many cars have seats where I can feel the cross bars or something. Or the seats are just too stiff.

    Our seats in the Cobalt are not leather but the driver does have a manual lumbar support. And the seats are not power adjustable. However, I don't think I'll drive it to Nashville without making more than one stop.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,251
    I was called this in college & I guess the name stuck. The last 30 years at work, everyone called me the same name. It's such a part of me now that I answer when I get called by that name. The kids all had a belly laugh when they heard others addressing me in that manner!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Member Posts: 194
    edited October 2010
    How could any car, no matter how sophisticated, actually know what gear I want better than me at any given time??

    They are so sophisticated that they know what you NEED and don't care what you WANT! :P :surprise: (only semi-facetious)

    Also, McLaren has developed a new supercar to replace their old F1. They went with a SMG instead of a stick. The CEO was quoted that even in supercars the number of owners that want a stick is down to 9% and dropping.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I don't mean to get into minor nuance but the expression "serve time with" ordinarily means something like "serving time in prison." I believe the expression you're looking for is to "serve with"…

    Nah…I said it right. I too was in the service (Navy, Airdale) and as much fun as I had while serving, there were times when it felt like a sentence. I also felt that way about going to night school after my Navy days. It seems like almost everyone when they speak to others, especially those that went to the same school as they did, when they say, “I went to that school too, when did you get out”? :confuse:

    Thoughts, Richard?

    Let’s just leave him out of this. I don’t thing he served any time, at least none that he’d admit to. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "I don't mean to get into minor nuance...."

    Like you, my first thoughts were of orange jump suits and zebra stripes. The expression "served with" does seem more in keeping with military terms of service. We never want to infer the negative when our intent is to accentuate the positive. He could have said: "The guys in service with you...", "The guys who served a hitch with you in the service...", "Your fellow servicemen...", etc.

    Each poster here has an interesting writing style. Jmonroe writes as if he is sitting across from you at a table having a casual conversation. It's comfortable reading. Isellhondas writes from a teacher's perspective. He is an informative writer with a touch of authenticity which makes the reader believe his every word. Driver is a debater. He is always willing to support his beliefs with as many facts and proofs as possible. Graphicguy is a novelist. He tells good stories while imparting valuable information. Houdini is a humanist writer. He has an understanding of how people find themselves in certain situations. He is "reader supportive". Fezo is forever the humorist writer. He offers flare and spirit to the reader. Verdugo is the "direct' writer. He sees people and things as they are, not as what they appear to be. Snake is the "opinion" writer. He gives his views and lets the chips fall where they will. Stickguy is the editorial writer. He rarely addresses a poster directly. He reads posts and then addresses the issues within those posts. I used to think of Mackabee as the "savior" writer. He told wonderful stories which usually had a solution that helped another person with a car problem. Oldfarmer is the "sage" writer. He offers practicality with a twist of wisdom and wit. Joel was the "helpful" writer. He gave good advice but always kept it within his own realm of experience. That ability is a unique trait. There are others, but I'll stop here.

    You can see why I enjoy this thread. It's not just the car talk. It's the colorful, factual, and imaginative ways in which these guys express themselves. The blending of these styles makes this forum rich and unique. BTW, you're my analytical writer. The nice part is that you do it with sensitivity, not arrogance.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    "Let's just leave him out of this. I don't think he served any time, at least none that he'd admit to."

    Well, I tried but they wouldn't take guys with only one eye. As for jail time, I discovered that they would take me for one night at the "Myrtle Beach Hilton". I'll leave the offense to your imagination. :shades:

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited October 2010
    Each poster here has an interesting writing style.

    I found your analysis of writing styles very interesting, and right on. You said that I back up my posts with back up information. I was going to reply to the posts about driving a manual compared to an automatic but first I wanted to find out how many cars are manuals these days. I do remember in school we couldn't just make a statement without it being backed up.

    I think the other posters were accurately depicted and it made for fascinating reading.

    Here is what I found out about manuals;
    * * * *

    . Back in 1980, more than 35 percent of all cars were sold with a stick. Because they cost less and boosted fuel mileage, manuals were more popular when gas prices went up or the economy went down, according to Mike Omotoso, powertrain analyst for J.D. Power and Associates.

    Then the SUV appeared, which often came automatic-only. By 2005 only 6 percent of all buyers bothered with a stick. Skyrocketing fuel prices and more choices in small cars brought a mild uptick to 7.7 percent last year, but the trend is clear
    * * * *

    I also found out that automatics are usually more fuel efficient, can go faster from stopped (e.g. 0 to 60), are better at selecting the correct gear. Personally, I still like a stick....it gives me my exercise for the day.
    For more about manuals, this is interesting: The end of manual labor

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,154
    . also found out that automatics are usually more fuel efficient, can go faster from stopped (e.g. 0 to 60), are better at selecting the correct gear. Personally, I still like a stick

    driver....nice find. Not surprising, either. I know more recent automatics (say in the last 10 years or so) really do get better fuel economy and offer performance advantages over their manual counterparts.

    isell....my Acura dealer says Acura forces them to take a certain number of manual trans models. He said if he never had to have another one on the lot, he'd be happy as they're hard to move given most people don't even know how to drive a manual trans car.

    My friend who owns the Cobra I keep bringing up from time-to-time (and keep trying to buy from him) says his Ford dealer won't even put a manual trans Mustang on his lot as all he gets is joy riders who want seat time in them. The only way a manual trans car hits his lot is if it's special ordered by the customer.

    Me personally, I know my Acura's trans is really, really good. Using the shift paddles it upshifts and downshifts in less than the blink of an eye.

    Still, if I end up with my friend's Cobra 'vert or another sports/muscle car some day, I'd prefer a manual. In a lux/sports car? I doubt I'd ever even look at a manual trans (even if offered).
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited October 2010
    I just knew I was going to have to defend my manual preference in these so-called modern times. But cuz of pain I'm going to have to shortform, and hope you can read between the lines a bit.

    "Then the SUV appeared," etc - well with SUV we also have more women out working to help pay our exorbitant taxation strain. Not to say that women are less capable, but they tend to be more lazy at learning driving. That is also why there are fewer women racers. (racing and real driving is where a manual shines) Someone here mentioned an auto knows what gear I need. Well that tranny cannot see the pothole in mid corner that I just spotted or the impeding traffic/conditions around me, so I simply won't buy that. But of course with many lazy drivers on our roads, we do have incompetent drivers too (ones who couldn't manage getting their licence unless the test car was an automatic...is this really someone you want to share the road with on a dark, ice slick two lane road as they go by you in their 2.8 ton 4x4 Suburban with you in your 1.3 ton Civic? And they are so clueless those are the ones that actually see the stability control idiot light on the dash flash often on wet and slippery roads). Now.... those are the ones whose intelligence and skills actually are inferior to a tranny picking the gear for them.

    As for potential fuel savings, again, this is usually not as optimistic in real world conditions as the city-like dyno tests that simulate the conditions that the fuel mileage rating results in the booklets, would suggest. And autos can do better in congested city stop and go driving, --------huge bracketed paragraph coming.> (and because of the stats you cite, this is certainly partially due to society's busy lifestyle and road real estate constraints, and I admit, autos are more enjoyable in those stop and go scenes....but I also maintain even the traffic congestion we have is made worse by incompetence behind the wheel...people acting like sheep rather than pacing their distance between each other which creates the "stop-and-go" in the first place. On the gas up the rear of each other, then on the brakes, and the cycle continues. Fender benders adding huge to these congested conditions and again...all because autos have helped people be on the road that really shouldn't be! Not everyone can be a doctor or a teacher or an engineer. And not everyone can actually drive. They just think they can and the infamous automatic transmission is a tool that can camouflage their limitations better than almost any other vehicle component) - back to fuel economy........ but only because most manuals are not driven correctly in those same conditions. In order to get those numbers as high as they are we have GM techs (and others) shutting off fuel to the injectors as it reads (mis-information from wrong software parameter signals coming from the too-sophisticated autos and their torque convertors, and when they don't do it right you get tons of grief like they are getting from Equinox owners with engines trying to stall at lights and very abrupt and rough downshifting etc etc etc etc all which is moot with a manual. VW and many others (including Yamaha's FJR1300 electro shift motorcycle) all share these drivability issues. Let's not forget that there is still no computer on earth better able to compute than our own brain. Assuming we give it legs to exercise. Automatic transmissions are just one more way we have attempted to idiot proof our vehicles. And because they have made cars so much easier to drive, the technology goes on out of necessity basically, (in order to help keep us safer) to give us airbags, ABS, stability control and on and on and on with all the techno crap. Geez we even have cars that can parallel park themselves! Is this really what we want on our roads? Remember that dark stormy night two-lane road scenario again? And that decreasing radius turn coming up where that opposing Sub's driver is in way over their head and are about to grab a ridge of slush which pulls them head-on into you and your family? And remember that all the techno stuff in the world can not make up for gross incompetence behind the wheel and basic laws of physics. So I ask again...is this really the type of driver we want to share the road with? Not me. I'd much prefer a driver who got their licence during a test with a manual tranny, forced to do a parallel park on a steep hill in a tight space without burning a clutch. Or a not as steep a hill with some snow so that they MUST feel the limited available traction as torque is applied to the road. If you can get the tires to grip prior to spinning with a manual, then you really do know the relationship of traction to the road under your butt. There is no cheating then. Autos let you cheat....in a big big way.

    Ok, it sure was not shortformed. I couldn't do it. I am just way too passionate about this topic as I'm sure you can really tell.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Automatic transmissions are just one more way we have attempted to idiot proof our vehicles

    Beautifully written essay on why we all should have manual transmissions. Richard will have to categorize your writing style.
    You have convinced me, though I was a fan of manuals before. I guess you reinforced the reasons I like standard trannies...besides it keeps your brain active and so less chance of losing your marbles down the road.

    People in Englandare much better drivers. The roads are narrower, and many more cars are manuals....even taxis a lot of times (but not the London cabs).

    I still love my 6 speed manual, but I just hope I don't break an arm or a leg, or I won't be able to drive at all.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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