Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog

Keep hanging in there. I know it's tough, but there is a solution out there. I caved in and finally went to a chiropractor after trying an orthopedic surgeon and a neurologist. Believe it or not, the chiropractor has really helped with the hip and leg pain. We just have to keep trying various avenues. I'll be thinking about you. Keep us posted.

Richard

driver100

Since I don't plan to make a habit of it, you can keep the $20

Good move, it was going to be a Canadian $20 bill any way.

crkyolfrt

Thank you for this info. I will keep it in mind. They 'think' it is a pinched nerve. I have incredible burning pain (that used to be numbness) in my right fingers. Had for 2 months now. In early stages I could get relief by standing. i.e. no sleep...for weeks on end If i did drift off from exhaustion for 30 minutes I would pay dearly when I awoke from dreaming my hand was on fire. This went on for weeks. And during all this, out of pure necessity I was trying to get my firewood cut and split for this winter as I didn't have enough. If you have ever worked a hardwood bush, you'll know how grueling that can be. And I know that work was compounding the pinched nerve and assumed inflammation.

Then it got so that even standing beside the bed didn't help very much. I am using an inversion machine (that hangs you on varying degrees up to entirely upside down. (haven't tried that extreme position yet) and getting acupuncture. I am able to sleep longer spells now without having such extreme pain when i awake. I don't mind saying that for a while there I was trying to will myself to death. I live with chronic back pain and I guess over the years it has worn me down. This though upped the anti so much I was feeling beat right down.

As for going off topic, I guess since I have seen this thread go way off at times, when I was a lurker and before I decided to post, I thought it was acceptable. I'll try not to make a habit of it though. There is a vast amount of knowledge that can be shared by a group of guys such as us on here.

Thanks, I'll read up on the gout in wrist. You never know what is associated with what so I try to not assume anything. Typing and mousing the PC has always messed with my wrist and arm but think this is due to something else in my neck or back. Tomorrow is another day tho right?

driver100

. Blood pressure still too high and right hand still screwed but am trying acupuncture.

Good luck gimme...I give you a lot of credit. When I am incapacitated I am miserable, and you soldiering on. I hope you stay with us, your posts are inspiring.

P.S. I assume PS Ont is Parry Sound.

jmonroe

That was just an idiosyncrasy with me.

If I called you that a while back you’d have never talked to me again !!! :P

jmonroe

sterlingdog

"If it's used it was owned by a Tea Party member."

If it's a used BMW, it was owned by a stubborn, fast talking book salesman.

Richard

sterlingdog

"...you'd have never talked to me again!!!"

Yes, I would. It's just that we both would have been a few years older.

Richard

sterlingdog

"A person has to buy what they feel comfortable with and not what someone else thinks they should buy.!"

I understand your opinion and agree with it 100%!

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks for the tip. I'll be on guard when I see that one coming.

Richard

tjc78

The salesperson in question should have pointed out that the 2000 mile car was, indeed, a demo and should have offered a discounted price. No question about that.

He did. The whole demo thing was revealed when he couldn't find it on the lot or the keys in the machiine.

I don't know why everyone is so nuts about the first offer. He did EXACTLY what I would have done. He had 2K to discount (via rebate) without taking a penny off MSRP. This was all over the phone, he had no idea whether I would show up or not.

When we got to the dealership I had no problem striking an under invoice deal before rebates. This IMO is the way it works. I don't think any dealer is gonna come up with a huge discount right off the bat, especially when a customer is set on a car that is in limited supply and they are the only ones in a geographic area that has what you want.

tjc78

Not sure where that leaves us but it has to be about 50 cents a mile these days, that is the cost per mile over the lease limit. Now, those are miles on a 3 year old car with over 36000 miles and no more warranty. The 2000 miles are on a new car which has a lot more value, so would be worth at least 2X as much, so probably 80 cents to $1 per mile over a new car.

Find me a leasing company that charges that much overage per mile. I have leased 4 in a row and it is always in the 20 - 25 cent range.

Do you really believe that demo mileage is worth $1.00? That means you would expect a $5000.00 discount on a typical 5000 mile demo? That is not gonna happen (unless we are talking about a 60K+ car that has a large spread between invoice and MSRP). This is obviously keeping factory rebates out of the discussion.

sterlingdog

I read with interest your experience with the window and siding salesman. First, let me say that the story was well written and really held my attention. Secondly, you have the patience of a patron saint. I should be as tolerant. The one thing that burned me up was when he asked if you were Jewish. Perhaps it is because I was a personnel director, but I find such questions to be offensive, unethical, unprofessional, and, in the business world, illegal. You simply don't ask questions regarding religious faiths, marriage, pregnancy, sexual orientation, number of children, ethnicity, etc. His nauseatingly slick presentation was bad enough. He also added insult to injury by not providing the estimate when you asked him to cut to the chase. When you walked to the car and gave him his walking papers, you did the world a favor. This young man has a great deal to learn.

The Jewish question reminds me of an experience that I had many years ago. We were newly married and had just moved to a new town. Several ministers visited us to entice us to join their churches. One minister stands out particularly. Upon his arrival at our door, he begins by asking my wife about her family---where they live, what they do for a living, where she went to school, etc. My wife politely answers all of his questions. He then turns to me and asks, "Now how about YOUR people?" The question went through my body like a hot poker. After a long intentional pause, I answered by saying, "MY people are the ones who would not be happy in your church." After a few minutes of sharing what his church had to offer, he departed. My wife looked at me and grinned and said, "Only you!" I said, "No. Only MY people."

Richard

sterlingdog

I'm running behind on reading all of the posts, but I wanted to congratulate you on a job well done. Keeping your future MIL happy and getting a good deal at the same time, is just short of a miracle. I thought that you handled it all very well. I didn't feel that you left much on the table and yet all parties were happy campers. Great story and great job.

Richard

sterlingdog

I just had a thought. Years ago, I had a terrible burning pain in my third and fourth fingers on the right hand. It went on for several days. When I went to my doctor, he gave me a cortisone shot. The pain was gone within hours. It could be worth a try. Stop chopping that wood. It's only going to aggravate your condition. We have to realize at some point in time we must give up doing certain things. I miss the hiking trails, but I just can't do it any longer. I still try to take short walks of about a half mile. It just makes me feel better all over. You're a good soldier.

Richard

graphicguy

lemko....reminds me of my son coming home from the mall a few months ago. He was all excited about someone wanting him to come in for an interview. Apparently, he was in a mall store visiting a friend bemoaning the lack of interviews from all the resumes he'd sent out. Someone in the store over heard his plight.

I figured since he was close to graduation, one of the stores actually wanted him to come in for a low level "manager trainee" position.

He said it was a financial services company looking for "managers". I thought that odd, buy hey....all "honest" work is good work.

Forgetting for a moment that my opinions about so called financial services companies have hovered somewhere significantly south of lawyers that last couple of years, I was happy to hear that the job market may be loosening up a bit for recent graduates.

He was to meet with this "company" the next day. I thought the worst thing that happened would be they'd train him for awhile and he'd at least get a brokerage license out of it. Who knows, he could end up doing quite well.

Well, he went out, bought a new suit, shoes, etc. He badgered the suit place to get the alterations done quickly so he'd have the suit for the interview the following day.

He went. Came home a couple of hours later, dejected. He said he was one of about 4 people in a group interview. And, it wasn't so much an interview, as it was a high pressure sales pitch as what sounded to him like a financial pyramid scheme.

You guessed it....it was Prime America. I hadn't heard of them before but I guess they touted themselves as part of a HUGE financial empire. Doing a little internet research, apparently this company has been preying on folks during the recent financial downturn. None of what I read was complimentary in the least.

As I told my son, he learned something. First, anyone who doesn't know you from Adam, and approaches you with the "chance of a lifetime", is probably full of bovine excrement. 2nd, it was a relative certainty that this "job" was going to cost him money, not make him any money. He was wise to recognize that immediately.

However, he did get a needed new suit....one he's using over and over again.

Separate topic.....what have you guys done with "kirstie"? Haven't seen her around in forever. Did you lock her up somewhere?

fezo

BTW - I will have my laptop with me in Florida so I'll at least be checking in. Remember that next time you go away for a day.

We're actually going to Kissimmee but it was way cheaper to fly to Tampa.

crkyolfrt

Yes, Parry Sound, not really there in town but is nearest big body of water that my friends to the south might identify if they look at a map. Georgian Bay is usually big enough most have it

Thank you for your kind words and concern.

sterlingdog

Bring me some Florida oranges on your way back home. We have the worst cold and cough in recent history. We were trying to decide who the best abled was to go to the grocery store. Guess who won the draw.

Richard

fezo

Ah, so in the Parry Sound greater metropolitan area....

I've been up there a couple of time years ago - very pretty.

fezo

Did she at least let yo drive the Caddy? :sick:

crkyolfrt

Thank you Richard. I am glad to know the chiro has been able to help you. I went to various ones over the past 20 years, but quit 10 years ago as the relief was so temporary. But then my back was so bad that i decided to go and see one back at beginning of Sept and pretty sure that guy wrecked my back and neck worse. He did a nasty correction (using the term incredibly loosely) on both my back AND neck. Others think he wrecked my neck and is where pinched nerve is. The acupuncture therapist is attempting to turn nerves off and on to allow body to heal itself (in overly simplistic terms) That first guy screwed me in less than 9 minutes, charged me regular fee plus a "re-consultation" fee. And now months later and hundreds and hundreds of dollars later...soon (and will) approach well over a thousand, I am slowly getting my life back. I have never sued anyone in my life but am sorely tempted to pursue a suit on that first chiropractor. (I wonder if anyone has ever done a successful lawsuit like this in the past?) Never thought I would feel so vindictive towards a healthcare 'professional' but severe pain and sleep deprivation messes up everything including your head. His rough, hurried, greedy, incompetent appointment on me, and flippant attitude all contributes to my thoughts on this.

fezo

I always wonder about people like that who go into health care strictly to make a ton of money. Making money is great, but if you aren't in it for the patient you should consider going into finance for a living.

I'm blessed in the chiropractor department. Have one who is also an RN. She's terrific.

nyccarguy

I'm glad you enjoyed my story & that you gave me good marks for it being well written. I aim to please.

The comment he made to me asking if we were Jewish (I'm not one to get offended very easily) offended me on 3 levels.

1. Like you said, it isn't proper to ask the question.
2. My last name cannot be mistaken for anything else, it is extremely common in the Jewish religion.
3. He asked the question as if now we knew he was Jewish too so we can trust him. This is an old school way that many older people think. "Hey, of course you can trust him, he's one of us."

The more I think about the experience, the more it was like having a live infomercial in my own house that I couldn't change the channel.

tjc78

Thanks, Richard.

Sandman6472

Being Jewish also, I've heard similar comments over & over...I hate it but some people actually think it works. Total nitwits & I just move on quickly from them, not worth the time to get upset...guy was just ignorant!

Having severe spinal issues over the years, I'm tired of the daily chronic pain I have to live with. I'm medicated with morphine & a morphine derivative for the break through pain plus an anti-anxiety pill for the sleeplessness that the chronic pain causes. Needless to say, most days are not happy ones. Since I'm now on semi-retirement, I'm so glad that I can come on these forums to read & post...definitely helps to put the pain on the back burner. Am just starting to walk a little bit daily to get my strength back as so much of the muscle in my legs & arms have atrophied at this point.

So I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum...I am "The Sandman".

The Sandman :sick: :shades: :sick: :shades:

isellhondas

In my working carreer, I worked around and with quite a few Jewish and Mormon guys and I noticed that asking one another if they were Jewish or Mormon seemed to be pretty common.

Our company sponsored Kenny Bernstein the race car driver and when one of our Jewish managers met him for the first time, he said..." Bernstein, eh? are you a Lonsman? Kenny replied in the affermative.

I watched several times when Mormon guys would meet someone and after awhile, ask...." Are you LDS?"

I would have never done such a thing but if the people who were asked were offended, they didn't show it.

People hear my last name and sometimes ask if I'm Norwegian and that doesn't bother me. I met a lady at a funeral on Saturday and when she heard my last name, she asked me if I ate Lutefisk.

I told her my mother made me try a bite of it once as a child and that was it!

isellhondas

I volunteer at the local Food Bank once a week and today was the day. That's four hours of running, literally and lifting heavy crates. I sometimes strain my back but at least my pain isn't constant likt you guys are experiencing.

Aleve works wonders for me when this happens.

jwilliams2

So I guess that puts me in the 0.1% bracket.

That's the great thing about the Edmunds forums. If you hang around here long enough, you will surely learn something. Now you know what a demo is, and that it should be discounted. Welcome to the 99 percent!

snakeweasel

I got caught in a Primerica presentation once. Ugh.

So did I once, not good. One time I answered a want ad for a finance position and ended up in an audience for a presentation on some water filtration MLM. Needless to say I wasn't the only one who left within the first few minutes angry as hell thinking I was going to a legitimate job interview.

snakeweasel

My company reimburses them at .5

Your company reimburses you at 50 cents a mile because the IRS has determined that that is the average cost of running a car including depreciation, maintenance, wear and tear, gas, insurance, license and all the other little expenses.

Leasing companies charge you less because all they are doing is charging you for the depreciation and the wear and tear. You still have to pay the gas, insurance and license.

In reality your company can reimburse you whatever they want. If its over 50 cents a mile you have to declare it as income (the over 50 cents a mile portion) and pay taxes on it.

snakeweasel

(green capsules that make you sleep and have wierd dreams

Well tell us, any weird dreams about buying a car?

oldfarmer50

"...what have you guys done with "kirstie?..."

Maybe they gave her a Mercedes SLK at the Albany car introduction and she is still out on the road.

snakeweasel

I am not Jewish but I grew up in a neighborhood that had a very large Jewish population. That being the case I did have many Jewish friends. Now having Jewish friends and hanging around their families back in the 60's and 70's I picked up the habit of using some Yiddish phrases. I really didn't realize that I was using them to much until when I was in the service and people thought I was Jewish.

BTW Hi Sandman.

oldfarmer50

"...People hear my last name and sometimes ask if I'm Norwegian..."

That is soooo ignorant. How could they not know that with a name like Isellhondas you are, of course, Japanese. :P

A farmer friend of mine happens to be an Orthodox Jew and very devout. He married into a wealthy Jewish family from New York City.

One day he was lamenting to me about how "those people" only cared about money. We looked at each other for a few seconds and then both started laughing.

I guess no one is immune to stereotyping.

isellhondas

Then there was that Insurance Company that used to roll through town once in awhile. I want call the A.L. Williams or something like that.

A lot of people really think there is a quick, easy road to wealth.

isellhondas

isellhondas = Japanese?

Now, THAT is funny!

verdugo

I noticed that asking one another if they were Jewish or Mormon seemed to be pretty common.

The difference is that they weren't trying to sell anything. They were just being friendly.

sterlingdog

We are very happy that you have joined us. You are a welcomed addition to our little family. Though we get a little crazy at times, and terribly off topic on ocassion, I know that you will enjoy it here. These folks are really great people. Though we come from different areas of the country and different vocations, we all have one thing in common---we love cars. Happy posting.

Richard

imidazol97

>So I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum...

And you've already realized that sometimes we spend a lot of time and effort on the meaning of the word "is," to paraphrase a past president. But there's a lot to learn about other people's experiences and thinking.

Once in a while someone even has a sales or buying story which is really great. And even there we sometimes dissect the meaning of the word "is" in the transaction.

mako1a

terribly off topic on ocassion,

we all have one thing in common---we love cars

and noting grammar/spelling mistakes. (especially when Richard makes them)

driver100

We're actually going to Kissimmee but it was way cheaper to fly to Tampa.

Tampa airport is much more user friendly than Orlando.....I hope I never have to land in Orlando again.

driver100

So I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum...I am "The Sandman".

Glad you are with us "The Sandman". Love getting your input and views, and if it helps make life better for you, than that is great.

Don't get too upset if I go on and on sometimes, and if I don't think there is any car better than a BMW....just ignore me if you have to.

Hope you continue to enjoy your visit.

bolivar

I have a Canon S3 camera. I was reading a camera forum, or some place online, and someone had written that the new model in that line was out, the S5.

Someone else then queried about what happened to the S4.

And it was explained that the number 4 is an unlucky number to the Japanese. And they would never issue a model number '4'.

bolivar

Any chance you could have carpal tunnel problems in your hands?

The wife is having numbness and tingling in her entire arms after sleeping. Not just the hands, but all her arms and up into the neck.

She now has wrist braces on both hands. And braces on the elbows that keep her arms straight. The very first night after using these, she had a lot of relief.

This was after the electronic tests where sensors are put on various places up and down the arms with electric current put through them. And for the end of the test, actual needles are placed into the arm, wrist and hand with current put through them. This seems to be the defining test for carpal tunnel. Without doing an MRI workup.

These braces can be bought in any pharmacy. At a price probably 1/3 of what you will be charged buying them at a doctors office. Of course, if you've got excellent insurance coverage, it might be better to get them at the doctor's office.

graphicguy

sandman....another hearty welcome.

isell...I remember the A. L. Williams insurance folks. Long time ago, when I was knee deep in buying insurance (around when my son was conceived), I agreed to meet one of their sales people to talk about what I thought was going to be insurance. As we all know, it ended up being a recruiting meeting with the agent's boss (who was really hard sell).

As we spoke, and it became clear that I didn't want to sell insurance, but to actually buy some, they told me of how it worked. Term life and then put the difference in premium between term and whole life, into another investment to grow. I told them it sounded like they were selling whole life, but with a different name. Only their "investment" portion wouldn't guarantee a rate of return like whole life would.

They seemed dumbfounded that somebody figured that out. Not the sharpest knife in the kitchen, those two.

And....driver....you think BMWs are the best cars in the world? Who knew? :shades:

snakeweasel

And it was explained that the number 4 is an unlucky number to the Japanese. And they would never issue a model number '4'.

Thats odd as Nikon came out with a model number 4 several years ago.

fezo

Oooohhh!

I had that carpal tunnel test. Nothing like good old electrical shocks! It does figure out carpal tunnel though. I've got that but can control it pretty well. I also have toxoplasmosis (that thing they always worry about with pregnant women and cats), inflammatory arthritis, fibromyalgia, elevated clotting level in my blood and myleodysplasia (my bone marrow doesn't make blood right).

And yet I'm still here and pleased to be so.

Sandman - great to see you over here.

crkyolfrt

Thank you to all who offered up advice etc on dealing with this pain. I am doing this one post rather than reply to each of you who have had good suggestions. Yesterday's typing set me back so I just have to not use this hand for a while yet.
I appreciate all the comments though and will continue to check in to read up on them.

(Richard, I have those cortisone shots on my list to check into as soon as I can get an appt with the doc)

As a relative newcomer here myself it feels good to now be able to welcome another new poster. I'd like to echo Richard's and fezo's and other welcomes to you Sandman.

I'd like to offer one piece of advice I have discovered about the forum and it catches us all out still at times. It has to do with the delay time between you posting and you seeing your post but no one else does until your ability to edit for about 30 minutes after posting, expires. Sometimes someone is responding to a post you do, while you are replying to someone else's. Depending on the length and whether they or you edit it a few times or not, sometimes you find out there can be almost an entire page worth of assorted posts here and there that you might miss due to this delay time before the post actually shows up on other's PCs. So I suggest going back a couple pages at least to where you think you are caught up to over a few hours or the next day even. You will see new posts that weren't there when you first read that page.

I know you will enjoy this great piece of cyber space and the many great people here.

crkyolfrt

I decided to reply to this also anyway Richard, to make sure you are using the best foot wear money can buy. Experiment too to help zero in on what works best. Usually wide but sturdy soles even if they have air or whatever in them helps support the ankle twist and overall effort to walk. It will help with that half mile and maybe allow you to do more. Sorry to hear you can't do the hiking anymore. Thanks again for the cortisone info.

jmonroe

That's the great thing about the Edmunds forums. If you hang around here long enough, you will surely learn something. Now you know what a demo is, and that it should be discounted. Welcome to the 99 percent!

I’m pretty sure that the regular non biz guys here at Edmunds knew all along that a demo is not a new car and therefore, it is used. Titled or not it is used. The biz guys like to take the middle of the road approach and that’s where the term “demo” surfaces. To what extent the car is used, that is what was being discussed. It sounds like something in the 500 mile range puts it in the used category and the lower the mileage the more it goes towards a new car price. That is what 99 percent of the non biz guys are saying. So I’m not out of step with them and I didn’t have to hang around in here to know that. That is what I brought to this forum when I got here.

Like I said I’m not against buying a demo. There is no reason to consider them abused and more than likely you can get a pretty good deal on a very reliable car if you know how to go about it. I know I did, once.

The interesting thing about this is that, if I were given the choice and the delta bucks is not that much, I would rather pay more for an upscale model that is a demo than I would for a lesser equipped model that is a brand new no miles left over at the end of the year.

jmonroe