Stories from the Sales Frontlines

isellhondas

OK, then. Good answer. I do the same thing except I might drop a couple of hundered dollars just to let the buyer can feel they "won".

I think we are the exception.

nyccarguy

I agree with you about your point about selling a used car. If somebody offers you your asking price, you take the money and run.

About the price of the 2010 Demo Altima with 2000 miles. The salesman was not being dishonest at all, you are 100% right that he is just doing his job by trying to sell the car for the highest possible price, which in this case is MSRP minus incentives. The dealer obviously wants to sell the car, but isn't willing to "drop its pants" on the initial conversation.

It is up to our poster to come up with an aggressive number that his Mother In Law is willing to pay. The way he comes up with that number depends on many factors (as you know): Are the 2011 Altimas on the lots? What time of the month is it? Is the salesman over his quota for the month or does he need to deliver 1 more car to make his quota? How badly does the dealership want to "get the car off the lot?"

Now I know 2000 miles isn't a lot, but to a buyer, it is a demo and should be sold for less than a new car (less than 10 miles on the odometer). If the 2011s are already on the lot, then there should be some kind of depreciation factored in. Invoice minus Incentives minus...

If his Mother In Law were to buy a BRAND NEW 2010 Nissan Altima and say 2-3 months later have buyer's remorse for whatever reason and traded it in with 2000 miles (In Perfect Shape) on it, what would the used car manager say? Well, the 2011s are out already so your car is 1 year old. I see the car is in perfect shape, but it does have 2000 miles on it. I need to sell it for less than a new one and make a profit.

I'm not sure how it works with Nissan, but I have a little experience buying Hondas. Craig, maybe you can attest to this, but in my experience a "leftover" Honda is cheaper to buy than a 1 year old "certified used" Honda. This is due to the fact that "certified used" Hondas hold their value so well.

Whatever happens, it will be intersting to see what he buys the car for.

isellhondas

Yep, the seller wants as much as they can get and the buyer want's to spend as little as possible. Nothing wrong with either approach.

As far as a new Honda vs. a 1 year old Certified?

They prices are going to be nearly the same. Some buyers we call "warranty freaks" are focused on that 100,000 mile 7 year warranty and they will perceive the Certified as the smarter buy.. Not me. I would buy the new one.

Then that 100,000 miles warranty has no doubt sold a lot of Korean cars that people wouldn't have bought otherwise.

nyccarguy

So somebody comes knocking on the door the other day during the afternoon selling windows & siding. Claims he's just finished up a job in the neighborhood and wanted to know if we'd like to set up an appointment for a "free estimate." My wife (I do love her so) takes the bait and sets up an appointment for a salesman to come to our house last night.

So we're eating dinner and she tells me, "oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you...somebody is coming to give us an estimate on windows for the basement tonight." I say, ok fine, whatever, where'd you get the name from? "Somebody doing a job in the neighborhood stopped by on their way out."

So I say to myself, ok fine, the guy will come, introduce himself, take a few measurements, and give me a price.

Guy rings the bell at 6:30. Very polite, maintains perfect eye contact at all times, even shakes the kids hands. Tells us his wife just had a baby 2 weeks ago. So we sit down and he starts his completely rehearsed to perfection presentation complete with lamenated pages in the binder. Tells us about his company's business model, how they are over insured, they have no complaints against them from the BBB, they've been in business for X number of years, they mfr their own products. He asks us a series of questions about our home.

Part of the way through the binder, I say: "Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but can we just skip the presentation, so you can measure and give me a quote."

He still goes through another 3 lamenated pages. Then finally comes down to the basement with me to measure. Tells me how inefficient my single pane windows are and how much money I'm going to save. Asks me who else I've had to quote me on windows. I tell him "Renewal by Anderson." He starts to tell me how his company is superior in every way.

We back upstairs and I think he's going to give me a price. He busts out the display with a heat lamp showing me how energy efficient his windows are vs. other types. This keeps my 18 month old & 4 year old entertained.

Now at this point my patience is wearing thin. I left for work at 6:25 AM and actually got home early (6:05 PM) enough to play with my kids outside for a few minutes before dinner. This guy has been at my house for quite a while. I still have to read stories to my kids and watch my Giants on Monday Night Football. It is getting dangerously close to kickoff.

driver100

I am at an airport computer..to Chicago for 2 days, so can't copy your question.
But, if I expected to get $11,500 for the car, and the guy said he would pay me $12000, I think if he sounded like a real descent person, I would say, tell you what, this was a quick fast sale, lets do it for $11500 and it is a deal.

That isn't what happened in this case though. I like to test people a bit to see how honest they are. I think he should have stated up front the bargain price, and that he would give a discount on top of that.

He hasn't given anything away at that point, he isn't playing any games, he will get a visit and can go from there. What he did I think was not 100% honest. You can try to defend what he did, but it doesn't qualify in my books as meeting my standards for trust. I would be careful, not to say I wouldn't test him further, like i said, he is making it harder on himself because now the line is drawn.

Gotta catch my flight...working trip so no time to tour beautiful Chicago...just a ride in a taxi to see those magnificent buildings. I have the notebook with me, so I'll catch up later.

nyccarguy

So finally the guy crunches some numbers and says he's going to present 3 to me. A good for a year price, a good for 30 day price, and a good for until he leaves price. He also provides "monthly payment options with each one." He goes over the lifetime warranty. He hammers a nail into a 2 x 4 with one of his sample windows.

Has an answer for everything. Very polished. Very smooth. Not annoying or capped teeth phony. Like I said, very professional. It was pressure, but without seeming like pressure.

Good for a year $6800. Good for 30 days $4800. Good for today $3600. Says he can offer the good for a day price because it is part of his company's efficiency model if he doesnt have to come back here.

I tell him I only finance if it is at 0%. I ask the terms of the loan. He tells me 6 years at 12%. I tell him again that I don't finance. What's the cash price?

OK, so we generally charge 2.5% to fill out the application, so I'll knock that off. How about $3500 even including tax. I'll go outside so you can talk it over with your wife.

My wife wants to jump at this and get it done. I tell he what I think of his presentation and that there has to be a catch.

I tell him no thanks. I appreciate his time. Wish him luck on his new child. He then "casually" asks why not.

I tell him I like him and his product and his company's accolades, but I don't like how perfect everything seems. There has to be a catch. The job costs what the job costs. Your labor costs are the same, so there has to be something with the product.

Throws out another number. $2300. Sits down and starts explaining how if we allow professional photographers into our home that we will be eligible for an additional discount and after our tax credit, the net cost will be $2400. Close to the $2300, so do we have a deal?

Then asks us if we are Jewish. My wife says, yes. He says, "me too, Rosenberg." Like now I'm supposed to trust this guy. He then says "Lemme go back out and call my wife while you guys think it over."

At this point it is 9:10 PM and I just want this guy oout of my house. I bring his materials out to his car and thnak him for his time. Finally. Like I said- UGH!

tjc78

Ok, so here we are with an appointment to see the car and a price of MSRP minus rebate money (2K). I have my MIL meet me at my office which is between her house and the car dealer. We are there on time. I seek out our salesman, but he was busy. Instead we are greeted by the sales manager, who immediately had someone go get the car for us to look over. In a few minutes the car is out front and he hands us the keys and says go ahead and take it on a drive (copied our licenses of course).

We drive the car and she is very happy. When we get back the salesman is free and he explains some of the differences from her old car, mainly with the NAV unit.

At this point there is no doubt she wants the car. I had prepared a sheet with all the figures and an OTD #. I knew when preparing the sheet, it may have been a little aggressive, but since it was a demo what did I have to lose?

The salesman brings it up to the sales manager and they talk for a few minutes and he comes back with my original sheet with a few #s changed (sell price and taxes). He explained there was no way he was going to sell me the car at the price I listed. I pleaded my case about it being a demo, etc. I anticipated being bumped up from my original # but not as much as they did. When I looked it over, I noticed part of the reason we were so far apart was that they figured the taxes wrong.

I explained they were charging too much for taxes. They told me “the rebates are taxed” I said you are right and that is why I took them off at the end. After going back and forth a few times they realized the computer was setup at the wrong tax rate. At this point we were $600 apart. I told them split it and you have a deal. Five minutes later all parties where happy and the paperwork was being printed.

The whole deal from test drive to final numbers was only a little over an hour and pickup two days later was smooth as silk as well.

Did I leave money on the table? Maybe a few bucks, however, she is thrilled and claims that I saved her a quite a bit of money, because she would have been happy just to hear how much off MSRP their first offer was.

Now for what everyone wants to know. MSRP was $30,560. The OTD price (including 7% taxes, 4 year reg and doc) was $28,300. Transaction price on the car itself was approx $25,800.

canadiantoyota

You did the correct thing by throwing him out. Come on, the price triples in one year! ($2300 vs. $6800). The company sounds like one we have here in Southwestern Ontario. The salesperson gives you a 3 to 4 hour pitch and just wears you down. Some people buy just to get them out of the house and cancel the sale the next day (in Ontario there is a 10 day cooling off period). I have a window and door company and we don't play those games. Our prices have not increased in over 3 years. You can call us up with your quote from 1 or 2 years ago and I can almost guarantee that the price will be the same. I am always amazed at how weak people can be when the salesperson is sitting in their home. The salesperson relies on this fact as most people are brought up to be kind and not rude, even when someone is invading your personal space.

Well done for throwing the guy out. I would suggest that you get quotes from a couple of competitors. They will likely be closer to the $2300 and you won't have to deal with the pressure.

Randy

tjc78

She can just walk away and leave the car with a massive accident history and a dirty Car Fax. As long as it's fixed and it looks perfect she's in the clear.


Very true, of course that is the chance the banks take as well. I am sure they get every bit as many cream puffs as damaged cars.

FWIW it only had about 20K miles on it and did run perfectly. It did need a serious detail though.

I had a fender replaced on my 06 Avalon due to my Grandfather's neighbor backing into it. When I turned it in, the bank (Hann Financial) asked about accidents and I disclosed it. They wanted the original invoice from the body work for their file. They were also not happy that I didn't report it to them when it happened. I said that I am telling you now and you will be hard pressed to find a cleaner lease return than mine, even with a replaced (brand new Toyota part) fender.

tjc78

he wasn't honest about giving you a good price

This was over the phone. He had no way of knowing if he had a serious buyer. I don't fault him for what he did. I would have done the same thing. As long as we agreed on a price at the end that is all that mattered. Of course, if you read the second part of the story we did.

stickguy

good job. If mom is happy, then you should be too!

any chance this was in Woodbury?

and based on the NJ I know and love, looks like the actual price was about 28K, before applying the rebate. Not too bad of a discount.

But man, you can get a 4 cyl Altima up over 30 large? Making that used Azera look better and better!

nyccarguy

Excellent Job! $5K off sticker looks good in anybody's book. I think you made the right play by going down there, ready to buy. Like you said - everybody's happy & that's all that matters. Good luck with your Mother In Law's Altima.

stickguy

isn't it Craig that always said when asked what the price was, that it was right there on the sticker? Up to the buyer if they want to ask for a discount!

fezo

Well, the price isn't on the sticker. It's on the dealer sticker where they've added thousands of dollars of crap you don't want.

tjc78

Stick,

It was in Mt Holly. They were the only ones in the area with what she wanted. Its a smaller dealer and they were totally no pressure and easy to deal with.

Woodbury only had 2011's in stock (w/nav) and that would have meant giving up the 2K rebate.

This Altima is equipped like a Maxima. NAV, backup cam, heated seats, Bose, etc. A V6 equipped like this is 34K :surprise:

stickguy

Good old classic. I bought my PU from them in 1991. Lived in Burlington at the time. Bought a Quest from Woodbury in 1998 (my neighbor was the GSM at the time).

prices like that make me realize why odds are my next car will be used!

houdini1

The stated interest rate on bonds never increase or decrease relative to the par value of the bond. The price of the bond fluctuates as interest rates go up or down. If you buy at a discount the relative interest rate is more because you paid less than par to buy the bond and obviously the relative interest rate is less if you paid more than the par value.

fezo

This Altima is equipped like a Maxima.

And priced like one,too! :surprise:

Well, not after Mr. Negotiator gets through with them....

nyccarguy

Randy

Thanks for your input. That's the whole thing that I didn't like was the "buy now.". The guy was totally trying to wear me down & I wasn't letting it going to happen, especially in my own home.

Now to his credit, he wasn't arrogant, just very confident. My wife was impressed.

nyccarguy

So I definitely got my parents an excellent deal on their Cayenne. I've been emailing the salesman back and forth. We were originally supposed to take delivery in mid-late November. I was told yesterday that production is scheduled for the 3rd week in November and we should be able to take delivery by the end of the year.

He told me orders being placed now for January production are for full MSRP. So we definitely ordered at the right time and got a fantastic price.

tjc78

FWIW they had a similarly equipped Max for 38K on the showroom floor.

tjc78

I never even knew they were there, of course I have never owned a Nissan either.

If I don't lease, my next one will be used as well. The prices are staggering.

nyccarguy

Besides the fact that both cars are built on the same platform, the Maxima is more $. I built my own Maxima after seeing that commercial where the guy stretches out the Z only to find the sticker price almost $40K. That kind of money buys you an Infiniti G37

graphicguy

tjc...congrats on the new car.

nyc.,,,your "windows guy" reminds me of a few of the car sales people around here. And, definitely of one of the guys who was giving me an estimate on a new HVAC system a couple of months ago. They can't get away from their canned presentation.

You ask for one thing (in your case, the estimate). Yet, they want to give you something else (demonstrations, business background, etc.).

Nice job on your parents' Porsche, too!

isellhondas

Well, I wasn't there to hear the actual conversation. Maybe I would feel differently if I had been.

So, you're really asking 12,000 for your car and someone offers your selling price.

You then would tell him.." Let's do it for 11,500??

Ah...OK. Can't say I would do the same thing especially if my car was fairly priced at 12,000.

tjc78

tjc...congrats on the new car.

Thanks, but was only the "wingman" on this purchase.

nyc,

My girlfriend is absolutely in love with the new Cayenne. If you or your parents are ever near south Jersey how about stopping by and letting her have a test drive. (wink).

jayrider

Suppose you have the 12k on the lot and your brother/sister/mom/dad comes by and sees it. Just what they want. You know it's priced fair at 12k but you know the dealership got it way below auction value at 9.5k. [it happens] How would you handle the sales price ? I figure that would be totally different if it was a stranger interested.
I would figure most sales reps would wait until the customer says something like "Can you do better on the price." Why would anyone selling something make the first move to lower the price? Doesn't make sense. As you said--- buyers and sellers are apples and oranges.
If I sold cars for as long as you have, I'd have contempt for the grinders,pennypinchers and liars as well. Comes with the territory. Your reference to the Ford store shows that scumbags exist on both sides of the fence. Welcome to the human race.

isellhondas

With family and friends that were shopping for used cars, I would go to one of the Sales Managers and simply ask them for a great deal. They would then look up what we had in the car, how long we had it in stock and shoot me a number.

Family and friends wouldn't grind me and they got great deals.

It's true. I've been in the retail business all of my life from entry level to a high level manager who was responsible for obver 200 people and managers and a 30 million dollar P&L. I thought I had seen it all until I got into the car business.

I didn't mind frugal shoppers who were just trying to get a great deal. I had noting but contempt for the people who went over the line. I was sometimes embarrassed for them. People lied to me constantly. The ones I enjoyed the most were the "experts" that tried to outsmart me.

Yes, scumbags are on both side of the fence here and I have say the job jaded me and made me cynical in ways I wouldn't have thought possible.

I worked in a great store and that saved me. In the "typical" places I would have walked out after the first week.

snakeweasel

Also a 2000 mile manager's demo isn't worth much less than a brand new car.

Maybe to you but it's still a year old car with 2K miles on it. Tell me would you pas as much for a day old loaf of bread that had a few slices cut of so the baker could have a sandwich as you would for the nice hot fresh one?

snakeweasel

Well you buy at a discount because the effective interest rate goes up. The actual cash flow from the bond doesn't change.

snakeweasel

They can't get away from their canned presentation.

My first sales job was like that. They trained us in a set presentation and we were supposed to follow it by the book.

First thing I did when I went out on my first call was to forget the "canned" presentation. I tailored my presentation to the person as I saw it. I did two to three presentations for every one my fellow salesmen did. I also had a lot more sales.

kyfdx

The worst deals are the ones where the buyer either has a friend who has a relative at the dealership, or a relative who has a friend at the dealership..

It's like lambs to the slaughter..

(I can't speak for direct relatives or direct friends... might be different).

jipster

The bad news is you have to watch this sales guy, he wasn't honest about giving you a good price

I agree. Unless your definition of "good price" is MSRP, then it was not a "good deal". The NIssan dealership should take something off MSRP, at least $500, to make a statement like that. Otherwise they're just blowing smoke up your tailpipe. :sick:

isellhondas

Some people like yourself feel that way but a lot of others don't.

To them if they can save a few bucks on a like new 2000 mile demo they will percieve it to be a good deal for them. 2000 miles is nothing and a few years later the cars will be worth close to the same money.

People like you should just pay more and buy a fresh car.

It's all perception.

driver100

To them if they can save a few bucks on a like new 2000 mile demo they will percieve it to be a good deal

What if you brought an Altima back to the dealer to trade in and it had 2000 miles on it? All hell would break loose and the dealer would tell you the car is only worth $20,000 by the time they advertise it, guaranty it, detail it, etc.

2000 miles is like two months of driving, the car will depreciate $6000 in one year so 20% should equal at least a $1200 additional discount.

driver100

Good for a year $6800. Good for 30 days $4800. Good for today $3600

Great story, beautifully told....I felt like I was right there.

The difference in price makes this whole sales pitch even worse. Anytime pressure tactics like these are used it is time to be suspicious. What would it matter to hime if you took a week to think it over. The only difference is he knows his chances of closing are a lot better if you sign right there.

We just bought a carpet.....not too exciting. but, I was impressed, if you get it home and you don't like it they will actually pick it up and take it back. They know it can look different when you get it in your house. That is honest and ethical.

driver100

Transaction price on the car itself was approx $25,800.

Excellent story and excellent outcome. Glad everyone is satisfied.

I do still say the salesman would have been much better off by being perfectly honest and up front by saying there are discounts, and they would discount the car because it has 2000 miles on it.

He had little to gain and he probably would have lost me as a potential customer by not telling me about the discounts available. It is lying by ommission. It is an insult to my intelligence to try to sell the car by not telling me there are discounts available.

driver100

Ah...OK. Can't say I would do the same thing especially if my car was fairly priced at 12,000.

what i actually said was if I was expecting to get $11500 and he seemed like a nice person, and said he would pay $12000, i might just say...I was prepared to sell for $11500, so let's do it for that.

When we got our new TV we listed our old one for sale online and I asked $50 for it. I just didn't want to get rid of it at the dump. A single mother came to buy it and she was so excited she would have this TV I told her she could have it for free.
I told her I put a price on it or people wouldn't think it was worth anything.

I saved myself a trip to the dump, and she was thrilled.

snakeweasel

I would think that most people with any money sense would agree with me. When all is said and done you have a one year old used car with 2K miles on it. The fact that it has never been titled doesn't make any real difference.

It should be priced as a one year old used car with 2K miles on it.

isellhondas

Except, it wasn't a DISCOUNT, I don't beleive it was incentive money to the dealer.

They don't have to give that money up but they can if the have to.

tjc78

A single mother came to buy it and she was so excited she would have this TV I told her she could have it for free.

That was nice Driver. I have given items away to people I know could use them, or sold them so cheap it was like giving it away. My main thing is that someone can get use out of it. I hate having things sitting in my basement.

Your story reminds me... A few years ago a guy at work had an old K-car. I can't remember which one, but I would say it was a mid 80s Reliant. It was in nice shape, but basically worth nothing in a trade-in. He knew someone at work was really going through a tough time, so he gave them the car. This guy (who acted so happy and thankful) goes ahead and sells the car for $1000 a week later, and continued to drive the total POS he had. That guy no longer works here, but it still comes up in conversation once in a while.

isellhondas

Oh, I do have money sense. It is NOT a one year old used car. Just because the 2011's are out doesn't make it a USED car!

And, again, it's not the car for YOU. I fully understand that and once you had made a comment like that to me, I would have steered you toward a 2011.

In YOUR opinion it "should" be sold as a used car. It's NOT a used car but I understand your position. It's simply not for YOU!

isellhondas

did the same thing at a recent garage sale we had. We gave some things away to some needy people and were happy to do it.

Then there were a few people I would have rather thrown the stuff in the trash or given it away rather than give them the discounts they demanded.

Some of these people looked familiar!

tjc78

Isell,

I pretty much have accepted as common practice that any car with a factory rebate the first price quoted from the dealer will be MSRP - rebate. I don't have any problem with them trying, however, I know that I want a better price. Heck, with some of the rebates on the big SUVs and trucks an uniformed buyer will think that 3-4K off MSRP is great and sign away. This is not the dealer's fault (for trying to make money), it is the consumer for not being informed.

I don't pretend to ever know more than the dealer, but, I do know that the rebate doesn't come out of their pocket.

As for Demos, I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with a car with some miles on it. This is especially true with a common car that will be kept for 5+ years. Now, OTOH if I was buying something like a Mustang Cobra or a Corvette for a toy car that won't be driven much I want one with no miles.

graphicguy

isell...I don't get nearly as bent about how some people are on the "cheap" (not frugal) side, whether it's at a car dealership, or at a garage sale.

I kind of view them the same way I do when I'm trying to buy a car. If my offer is accepted at my dealership, great. I just bought a car (and the dealership just sold another unit). If not, I walk away no worse off. I doesn't affect me one way or the other. Like you, I do not like to be "grinded" by the dealership, though (which is the reason I just won't participate if they try).

However, I do agree with snake. A car with 2,000 miles on it is not new. A new car is one with "X" lifespan. Your definition is it's a new car with "X" lifespan minus 2,000 miles.

Now, the dealership may not get anything from the manufacturer for those miles. Or, they may try to portray the car as new since it's never been titled. A more apt description of the car should be one that belongs to the dealership, not new, but with super low miles. Trying to sell it as a new car, at a new car price, well.....I have a hard time respecting a dealership that would try to do that. It certainly wouldn't give me the feeling that the dealership was trustworthy.

driver100

This guy (who acted so happy and thankful) goes ahead and sells the car for $1000 a week later,

Amusing story. I have seen that type of thing happen too. I think there is a good reason that guy was having financial troubles. \he only thinks for the moment, he doesn't plan for the future.

I suspect, although maybe not fair, that drugs or alcohol could be part of the problem.

jipster

what i actually said was if I was expecting to get $11500 and he seemed like a nice person, and said he would pay $12000, i might just say...I was prepared to sell for $11500, so let's do it for that

I've actually done that before. I think it's a nice gesture of humanity. Sold the wifes Buick Century roughly 6 years ago to a nice old farmerly type of guy who delivered mail in a rural town of Indiana. He asked me what I needed for it, I said $1,700. He said okay. I then told him I'd let him have it for $1,600... because that's how the jipster likes to roll. He peeled off 16 one hundred dollar bills, everybody leaves happy.

driver100

. A more apt description of the car should be one that belongs to the dealership, not new, but with super low miles.

Yeh isell, I have to agree with GG and Snake on this one. That car is a demonstrator or executive driven car....it falls between new and used. You aren't as sensitive to this as most customers would be....and you see it from the dealers perspective.

It has been driven around for the equivalent of two months...what would you pay to rent a car for 2 months? The dealer got use out of it.

What if it was a clothing store and the owner wore some Jockey underwear for a week. Do you think he could sell the underwear for full MSRP? He has to discount it because it is used, right?

I know, a little silly, but what about a demonstrator TV or computer? Stores don't sell these at full price.

driver100

I then told him I'd let him have it for $1,600... because that's how the jipster likes to roll. He peeled off 16 one hundred dollar bills, everybody leaves happy.

I am not a big one for sayings, but "What goes around comes around" is a good one. Be decsent and fair and you will be happier. Be a miser and try to suck every last penny out of everybody and you will be mean and miserable.

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who would charge me full pop for a car with 2000 miles on it, so I certainly wouldn't trust the guy trying to do it to me.

jipster

However, I do agree with snake

I'll second that. It's (car) being used by someone on a regular basis. It's a used untitled car with low miles.