Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

If you are spending 4 grand on a bicycle you are either a serious competitive bicyclist

Going back to cars, I guess it depends on what values are most important for you when choosing a car.. Do you want a car that gets you from point A to B as cheaply as possible, as comfortable as possible, as reliable as possible, with as much bling as possible, as fast as possible, as much fun as possible etc.?

Personally, the enjoyment factor is #1 for me, and I am willing to pay for that. Some people have a boat, motorcycle, motor home, cottage, a condo in Florida, a TV room, etc., I don't need those, I get enjoyment from just driving a car that is fun to drive.

mako1a

Hey Mako, does this one affect you (Oct. 21 2010)

I've got all the Toyota recalls neatly tucked away in the glove compartment.
The Avalon is in the garage with 7,400 miles on it. Hasn't moved in a month.

I have all but forgotten about it since acquiring the Explorer and installing
all my radios, antennas, police scanner, sound system, etc.

The one I drive is the one with the most toys and for now that's the Explorer.

jmonroe

I would probably agree that 300 hp may not be twice as enjoyable to drive as say 150 hp in most cases.

Why all the talk about 300 HP? Even the anemic Genesis 3.8 V6 has about that. Edmunds specs for the 2011 says 290 HP with regular gas. If you want real HP go with the 2011, 4.6 V8 that (which?) has 385 HP with premium gas.

You’re not thinking high enough. Then again, you’re more concerned with the “feel of the road” thingy. (winky goes here. FWIW, I'm getting tired of this)

jmonroe

tjc78

Even the anemic Genesis 3.8 V6 has about that.

WHOA.... you are less than a half a second faster to 60 there mister :mad:

Edmunds... V6 = 6.3
V8= 5.9

Besides... did you do this in your Genny?

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

jmonroe

WHOA.... you are less than a half a second faster to 60 there mister

You’re talking speed. I was talking HP.

Besides... did you do this in your Genny?

Huh, me do THAT ? I think Mrs. j finally found where to insert the key. I thought I felt a jostling of the bed at 2:00 AM the other day. I hate to admit it but I think ‘jip’ was right about her. Now I'm the one that gets to use the frying pan. :mad: (guess which one goes here)

jmonroe

tjc78

I think Mrs. j finally found where to insert the key

Women drivers...

All joking aside, I hope everyone realizes that picture was snagged from one of the magazines testing the Genny on the Autobahn. I don't want to start a war about speed, and if I did such a thing the last thing I will do is post a picture on the web proving it!

jayrider

I'm more interested in torque than hp. Some of the hp rides need to be running too high on the tach to be of much use for everyday driving. Diesels fit the bill but even the gas engines seem to be tuned to deliver nice torque off the line. Feels faster than it is but perception counts.

driver100

Why all the talk about 300 HP?
You’re not thinking high enough.

Actually, 300 hp is adequate for me. Seems some people are happy with 150.
My cousin has a Chrysler 300 with 425 hp, but he likes to go fast, he won't tell me how many tickets he has had, but I am sure it is a lot.

My 2005 Jeep had 195 hp and it was pretty slow. One friend said he had to get a V8 (260 hp), he liked his Jeep but thought it was under powered.

I could get by with less HPs, but I could eat hamburger instead of steak, if I had to.

You do some highway driving, why not go for the 385 ponies next time?

sterlingdog

"Why all the talk about 300 HP?"

I wondered about that also. Our SRX has 320 HP and goes 0-60 in 7.2 seconds with the V8 engine. I would hope that I would never need it to do that in 7 seconds. If I do, then great. Otherwise, I really don't care. After all, I think that I would look a little foolish at my age scratching off from a traffic signal in an SRX. (Grin )

Richard

houdini1

Richard, time for my daily grammar lesson. I grew up in the South and one thing they say almost all the time is "idn't" in place of isn't. I still have to make a conscious effort not to say "idn't". Have you ever run into that, and if so, where does it come from?

stickguy

just curious, but for these regional oddities like "younz", is it purely a pronunciation issue, or do people actually write that as a word? Or do they spell the word as it is supposed to be spelled?

tidester

Have you ever run into that, and if so, where does it come from?

You can think of it as another dialect of the English language with its own rules.

But can any of you relate this to the sales frontlines? Have "regionalisms" ever caused any problems or interesting situations in buying and selling cars?

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jwilliams2

I think you are correct, it is mostly a pronunciation issue. Probably a result of "Lazy mouth syndrome".

roadburner

After all, I think that I would look a little foolish at my age scratching off from a traffic signal in an SRX.

I love the fact that my Mazdaspeed is a sleeper. Most people think that it is just another small economical wagon. They don't realize it can hit 60 in less than 5.5 seconds. It's always fun to teach young punks and mullet heads to respect their elders- at the Stop Light Grand Prix... :P

jmonroe

You do some highway driving, why not go for the 385 ponies next time?

Man, I thought it was only Mrs. jmonroe and Richard that didn't listen to me now I'll put you on the list too. Where have you been? I have the 4.6 V8 Genny with all the "ponies" and it goes just fine for my PA Turnpike commute; thank you very much. :sick:

jmonroe

driver100

Why all the talk about 300 HP?"
I wondered about that also

I was just reading the cars section of the newspaper and I saw an article about the 2011 Sonata. They like the looks, similar to a $90k+ Mercedes. The Sonata comes with a 198 hp 4 cylinder engine, ahead of it's class in power and economy.
Rather than make a 6 cylinder engine, like their competitors have, they ingeniously went with a 4 cylinder turbo, which has better performance and economy than the competitors 6s. The 274 hp engine can do 0 to 60 in 6.8 seconds.The rest of the article was very positive. I think if I was looking for a car in this market segment, I could live with the 198 hp engine, but 274 horses would be a blast...for around $25k (with the turbo, starts at under $20k)!


Picture supplied by Edmunds....should be good for a free T-Shirt
2011 Sonata

driver100

. If you want real HP go with the 2011, 4.6 V8 that (which?) has 385 HP with premium gas

Gotch, I see what you mean. I thought you had the 6 cyl and that was adequate for you. I forgot, but should have remembered you had a V8. So where have you been when posters like Snake say they don't need extra hp. Just jump right in here and tell him how good those extra horses feel, even if you don't use them all very often.

jmonroe

just curious, but for these regional oddities like "younz", is it purely a pronunciation issue, or do people actually write that as a word?

It is, at least as far as what I have seen, "purely a pronunciation" thing.

Or do they spell the word as it is supposed to be spelled?

To be honest with you I don't really know the proper (???) spelling for the word "younz". I just repeated how I have seen it written the few times I have ever actually seen it written. It is definitely not for formal writing.

To keep this somewhat car related, per our hosts request, it must have a lot of HP because it sure does seem to move around rather quickly. :shades:

jmonroe

driver100

just curious, but for these regional oddities like "younz", is it purely a pronunciation issue, or do people actually write that as a word?

I once had a girlfriend who lived in Michigan, and she said "warsh" instead of "wash", but I am sure she spelled it W-A-S-H.

As in "warsh" a CAR.

snakeweasel

That would all depend on what you call enjoyment. Many people can enjoy a car that doesn't have a lot on unneeded HP.

snakeweasel

You forget I have owned high horsepower cars.

28firefighter

As a Philadelphia transplant in Pittsburgh, the only way I've seen it spelled is "yinz." Unfortunately in several of my internships, I've seen "yinz" make its way into very formal documents but for the most part I'd tend to agree, its just a spoken thing.

jmonroe

I once had a girlfriend who lived in Michigan,

As in "warsh" a CAR.

Now that is what I'd call a sought after woman. Where abouts in Michigan would that be?

jmonroe

jmonroe

As a Philadelphia transplant in Pittsburgh, the only way I've seen it spelled is "yinz."

Except for five years when I lived in SC, I've lived in the Burgh all my life. I've also heard the pronunciation "yinz" but that is from "yin" and "younz" is from the word "you". Either way, it is spoken a lot and it ain't good English so I don't use either of them words.

jmonroe

driver100

Where abouts in Michigan would that be

Originally from Minnesota, so maybe that is where it came from :confuse: (cofuse-question marks)

oldfarmer50

"...I'm more interested in torque than hp..."

I'm with you on that one. The "new" 1993 Caddy has a 4.9L V-8 that only puts out 200hp but has 275 ft/lbs. of torque @ 3000rpm. For such a big car it can move pretty good.

By the same token the new V-6 Mustang has something like 305hp and 290ft/lbs of torque but doesn't get it until about 4500rpm. Edmunds pretty much called it a dog in their reviews.

HP, torque, rpms, and of course, weight all factor in to making a car a dog or a hotrod. Some cars just have the right combination. I wish I knew how to judge what that right combination was better. I end up like everyone else drooling over HP figures and being let down in the actual driving.

Some one on here once said: "Horsepower sells cars but torque wins races".

sterlingdog

"...idn't" in place of "isn't."

Yes, I have often heard it used. To keep Tidester happy: Idn't that a beautiful car?

There have been thousands of articles and hundreds of books written regarding linguistics (language development). Some of the North American research deals with language spoken above the Equator. Some authorities insist that the closer one lives to the Equator, the slower the language pattern. Fellow poster, Jwilliams, calls it the "Lazy Mouth Syndrome". He may have hit the nail on the head. Due to the warmer temperatures as one moves closer to the Equator, the lazier the person's speech may become. Associated with that laziness is the speed of speech, as in the Southern drawl. Speed, however, is a separate study which we will not discuss here.

Match the "warm laziness" with the dialect diversity mentioned by Tidester. The result is a spoken pattern usually not acceptable to the followers of the more formal King James English. Though you might suspect that I would detest such patterns in people's speech, I DO NOT. There is great beauty, rhythm, and cultural heritage associated with such speech patterns. A short example follows.

One of my most prized possessions is a collection of the original Uncle Remus stories. Remember reading as a child about "Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby"? The best oral reading of the story is in the original dialect brought to us by African Americans many years ago. The same is true of "The Lost Colony" which is better read in the Old English dialect. Neither is what we would now consider to be good grammar or well spoken English. To make both examples fit today's proper usage would mean the destruction of something wonderful and beautiful.

Here is the bottom line as I always told my students: When among your friends and family, relax and enjoy the language to which you are accustomed. When you apply for jobs, work in positions of importance, or give talks in a formal setting, use the standard spoken and written English that is expected.

I have a great high school friend who used the worst grammar of any human on this planet. When he attended Wake Forest University to major in English, many of our classmates fell over with laughter. Well, the laugh was on them. After Wake Forest, he earned his MA in English at N.C. State. He then earned his PhD in English from Harvard. As he once told me, "I was 'agoin' to Princeton but decided that Harvard sounded 'mighty purdy'." He retired about ten years ago as head of the English Department at the University of Georgia. He had the ability to slip in and out of English modes at the drop of a hat. His wife taught English Literature;his oldest son teaches Speech Pathology, and his youngest son teaches drama and creative writing. Life can be both strange and wonderful.

BTW, I don't have a clue as to whether or not I answered your question. (Grin )

Richard

sterlingdog

"...Stop Light Grand Prix."

I love that expression. There is a stop light in front of a high school near us. Perhaps one afternoon, I should show those kids what an elderly person can really do. I think that I will drive the convertible. To them, it will look more realistic. (Joke :P )

Richard

sterlingdog

"Man, I thought it was only Mrs. jmonroe and Richard who didn't listen to me."

We do listen. We just interpret what you say differently.(Grin ) FWIW, I am tired of this as well. (See? I do listen.)

Richard

driver100

This article is a little long, but it mentions a new method of car selling...visiting the customers home (good way to check out potential customers) I read an article and they hope to sell 100 in Canada next year....100! No manual, it comes with an i-Pad that contains the manual.

Hyundai Motor Co.’s new ultra-lux sedan, the Equus, will start at $58,000, or roughly $32,000 less than the Mercedes-Benz S550 against which it is intended to compete.

The “base” model, called Signature, has features like a back massager, 385-horsepower V8 and a Harman 17-speaker sound system and suede headliner. The Equus Ultimate costs $64,500 and has even more bells and whistles, including rear back massagers and a refrigerator. Hyundai also gives every owner a new Apple iPad with the owners’ manual installed in it, and there are only these two configurations – rich and really rich.

Hyundai is building a luxury lineup that began with the Genesis and has extended to the Equus in the same way it built its volume products: charging less and jamming more standard features into its cars than its competitors. The new Equus comes standard with five years or 60,000 miles of free maintenance – and the dealer will pick the car up at customers’ homes and give them a loaner to drive in the interim.

Hyundai is only shooting for modest sales of 2,500 to 3,000 vehicles a year in the U.S., but the car serves an important role for the automaker as a halo vehicle. Hyundai also is experimenting with different retailing methods with the car, offering in-home sales pitches and test drives, an idea that could spread to other models. Only about 250 dealers will sell the car and each will have special salesperson to handle the transaction. The car goes on sale in December in the U.S.

snakeweasel

Its a real nice car. There was one at the Chicago auto show and I was really impressed. If I were in the market for a large luxury vehicle this would definitely be on the short list. It has one of the largest rear led room I have experienced outside a limo. Lots of things in it to make riding in it an experience.

I am pretty sure that it won't be a high performance car but it will sure be fun to be in.

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

lemko

I had a 1994 Cadillac DeVille with the 200-hp 4.9 V-8 and the car was hardly a slouch. It would do 100 mph effortlessly.

jmonroe

Hyundai Motor Co.’s new ultra-lux sedan, the Equus, will start at $58,000...

You should have been around when both of my sons asked their mother, awhile back, when their father was going to go look at an Equus. She asked what that was then immediately said, “If that’s a car he’s not buying another one for a long time. That thing in the garage cost enough. We don’t need another car. It’s not even 2 years old yet”.

The Equus Ultimate costs $64,500 and has even more bells and whistles...

That’s the part that really got to her. She remembers what happened when I went to look at the ‘09 Genesis in the fall of 2008 months before I bought one in March 2009. She walked in on a conversation between Son #1 and I when we were talking about the V6 vs. the V8 models. We were discussing their features while looking at a brochure I picked up from my visit earlier that Saturday morning.

The conversation went something like this as best as I can remember:

Me: If I get one I’ll probably get the V6. That model is fine with me.

Son #1: I’ve read quite a bit about them and I’m sure they’re both nice cars but don’t go half way, get the V8”.

In a pleading questioning voice to her Son.

Mom: Why are you talking about this? You know him when he gets going about this kind of stuff. You don’t have to wind him up like that. This isn’t a tool that costs a couple hundred bucks. We don’t need a car, especially one like that.

Like I said, that conversation stuck with her because she knows I don’t usually go half way and I’ve been told lot’s of times by her that “I always get my way”. There are worse things in life. (smiling away)

jmonroe

houdini1

Richard, that was a wonderful answer. I can't believe we think so much alike !!

Many thanks to tidester for letting us veer off topic now and then. I hope the new Equus helps hold down prices for luxury cars the same way the Lexus LS did back in 1990. Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, and BMW could use a good dose of humility !!

Many point out that VW failed in their attempt at luxury with the Phaeton, but the Phaeton cost $80,000 several years ago. Hyundai is starting at the bottom of the price range, not the top. If the Equus turns out to be a really good automobile it will succeed. Best of luck to the Equus.

isellhondas

That kind of money for a Korean car?

I predict a dismal failure.

jwilliams2

I agree. People spending that kind of money do it for the prestige. They don't want imitations. No bragging rights in a Hyundai.

jipster

That kind of money for a Korean car?

(whispering) If you build it they will come. $$$

Not sure why Hyundai doesn't create a luxury division.

Competition is good, so I hope it succeeds, and changes the image of Hyundai as a throwaway car. Hyundai appears on it's way to becoming the next Honda though.

dino001

People were saying exactly the same thing when Lexus and Acura started. Actually, fifty years ago many were lauging at Japanese Hondas and Toyotas.

Mix in right quality, price, product innovation, add something people don't already have with other brands (for basic Japanese brands it was build quality and fuel economy, for Lexus and Acura it was customer treatment and price) and they will come. What could it be with Hyundai? Only time will tell.

Sandman6472

So far, our experience has been outstanding with my kids Hyundai...it's also like the Energizer bunny, as good as our Honda, Nissan & Mazda. Just oil changes & tire rotations...no drama. I agree that Hyundai will become the next Honda in a few years. Also got a good feeling that the new Elantra will make both Toyota & Honda rethink the new Corolla & Civic...they need to start "thinking out of the box" or they could be in trouble in this segment. The Cruze/Focus have raised the proverbial bar so high, everyone else needs to hit a grand slam just to compete!

So glad that we'll be able to benefit from all these new models come 2013.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

isellhondas

" Only time will tell"

True, people have short memories.

I just don't see an expensive Korean car selling well. That market is already overcrowded.

But, I could be wrong...

tjc78

No you are rght. Hyundai even knows that it won't be a volume model.

From Driver's post:

Hyundai is only shooting for modest sales of 2,500 to 3,000 vehicles a year in the U.S.,

driver100

That kind of money for a Korean car?

People said that about Japanese cars in the early years. They even said it about Japanese TV sets when they first came out.

The first Hyundais were pretty crude, and it took a lot to overcome the image those cars created. But now Sonatas have excellent quality and are a good value. Depreciation is a problem for some unknown reason, maybe not enough stories of cars lasting for 300k miles yet.

So far, they are playing the game perfectly, and their sales are growing during these tough times. I think it will take awhile, but there are people who would like to get a car worth $80k for $55 and won't be concerned about the image thing. Hyundai is smart to only aim for a few 1000 in sales the first year.

I get the feeling, Hyundai is much more in touch with the market place than say, GM. Their sales are climbing, because they are putting a lot into their cars, compared to their competition.

tjc78

This was an interesting discussion before it was closed, especially the later threads.
Is there room in the luxury market for Hyundai?

driver100

This was an interesting discussion before it was closed, especially the later threads.

Interesting, especially about the last 12 posts. A very different kind of group over there. More name calling than information.

isellhondas

Yes, the first Hyundais were crude and they didn't have to be. The Japanese had taught them how to build a quality product and they didn't. They also didn't hold up.

We had a neighbor "save" 2000.00 by buying a Hyundai Excel instead of the Civic his wife wanted. It shook and rattled. The A/C never worked well and it threw a rod through the block around 50,000 miles.

But, as I've said before, Hyundai has made huge strides since those early years and I am impressed with what I'm seeing. Pricing has crept up to the point there aren't the huge differences there once was.

And, depreciation is a MAJOR problem. For whatever reason, no matter how nice the ones we took in on trades, just sat and sat. They bomb at the auction too and the wholesalers don't want them.

That's why, I think a two year old one would make a heck of a good buy!

Sandman6472

As current Hyundai owners, this company has come of age, no doubt about it. Though I don't drive it much, it's right up there with our other import cars. Would not hesitate to buy another one!!!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

snakeweasel

Have you seen one? Have you sat in one?

I have and I would suspect that they will sell what they plan to build.

tjc78

This is a sister story to Richard's dirty convertible a few months ago. Since my GF's mother moved into my neighborhood I have been taking my GF's sisters to school in the mornings. This is spirit week at school, so each day there has been some crazy attire. Today, sister #1 (the Senior) has a decorated jacket and face paint on. I didn't give this any thought until I got out of the car at work and noticed the paint (red and bright yellow) was all over my ivory colored leather seats/door panels/seat belts. You could even see the outlines of whatever she wrote on the jacket.

I walk into work like a wild man, raid the janitor's closet for whatever I could find (that wouldn't damage leather) and attempted to clean it. I really thought it would come off easily.... WRONG!!!! Any attempt I made to clean it only made it worse.

I decided to quit while ahead and called a detailer. The work they can do is awesome. I am not sure how in the heck they got it out but they did and all is well. I am sure all you fellow car lovers can imagine seeing your vehicle with paint on the seats. :sick:

sterlingdog

Oh my grandma's bra strap and my grandpa's hat band!!! Paint on leather!!!! My mud and dog poop experiences pale by comparison. You poor thing. They would have had to call 911 for me. I can just envision those ivory colored seats with paint on them. Thank goodness you had an excellent detail guy.

As for your GF's sister, she should pay for every penny of the detail job. How stupid can a person be to wear wet paint on a jacket?! I hate to slam your future sister-in-law, but she caused you much unnecessary stress, plus the loss of funds. I hate to think what your blood pressure must have been upon seeing that paint. The entire episode indicates total irresponsibility and immaturity on her part. I apologize for the rant. It's just that I know how much you appreciate a nice car. I'm so glad that the situation had a positive solution.

Richard

sterlingdog

I predict success to the intended small market. There will always be a small number of people who will purchase any given product. It is the uniqueness and diversity of the consumer that drives the market. Regardless of brand or negative history, it is a pretty vehicle with many options. At that price I wish them success. It will serve to increase the trade-in value of our SRX. (Wink )

Don't tell a soul, but I am falling in love with my wife's SRX.

Richard