Stories from the Sales Frontlines

imidazol97

>natures way of eliminating static,

I had removed all clothes that might produce static easily with movement: I just had barefeet, Wranglers, and a cotton T-shirt. I had a wooden stool and stood on a dampened throw rug. I had never dug into a cell phone and didn't know how easy it was to zap them. Since it was winter and relatively low humidity, I had to fight the static.

The computer guys will appreciate a few years back At home, I was disassembling my CPU chip with cooling fins on my Intel-based PC. It was running hot based on the monitor program. I had new, good thermal cement to glue the cooling fins to the top of the CPU after carefully removing the old stuff from the factory. I had a new copper cooling fin set and new fan for the top.



It was summer and higher humidity that day. But I worked in my underwear with a dampened towel on floor and under the computer case to avoid static. No clothing greatly reduces chance of generating static electricity, right? I still laugh about it. Boxer or briefs? I'll leave it to your imagination.

stickguy

dumb questin, but if you bought a replacement phone, why not just switch over to that one instead? I know that Verizon doesn't charge (at least they did not when I had to do it) for this if you already have the phone.

jipster

Agree, but it can still happen to pretty healthy people, especially if you ""raise a big heavy shovel full of snow over your shoulders".

That's highly ineffecient. You should use the "Jipst Method" of snow removal... the snow shovel never leaves the ground, reducing the risk of heart attack by over 75%. Just start at one side of the driveway and scoop/scrape/push it towards the other end. I'm still kicking! :surprise:

jipster

I had a wooden stool

Sounds like too much fiber in the diet. I'd see a doctor if I were you. :surprise:

graphicguy

verdugo....all I can say is WOW....just WOW!

This Star Nissan store is just a miserable dealership. It's the kind of place that gives all other dealerships a bad name. How anyone would feel comfortable buying from them is beyond me.

However, a couple of lessons. Children have no business in the showroom while dealing. I've heard all sorts of reason why people bring them (need to find out of the kids like it, fit in it, want it, etc. Until it's the childrens' money being spent on the vehicle, they get ZERO say in the vehicle purchase so leave them with a sitter, with a relative, at home...better yet, drop them off at the airport and see if they can both the TSA folks for awhile while you car shop. TSA isn't doing anything worthwhile anyway (and they aren't even good at being incompetent).

Time and time again we preach, "if you don't understand a contract, or the terms, or the numbers, don't sign it." Any supposed language barrier is no excuse.

That said, none of this absolves Star Nissan. Nissan corporate should have suspended the dealership's franchise until they turn over their staff, and/or re-train their employees in the ethical way to conduct business.

sterlingdog

I just sat here by my window and observed the dumbest thing that I have ever seen. My neighbor's wife across the street came out to remove the snow and ice from her car---with a RAKE!!! Her husband will probably shoot her tomorrow. Can you imagine the scratches on that Buick when the sun comes out tomorrow?! What was this poor woman thinking? This makes my yanking on the computer cord pale by comparison. :sick:

Richard

sterlingdog

That was a terrible story. Language and communication techniques were definite barriers. Adding children to the mix made it worse. Though the dealership has major faults, based on its previous track record, Mr. K must assume some responsibilities. His lack of attention, cowing to threats, and failure to ask specific quesitons all fail to identify him as a competent buyer. At the very least, he should have read the one page sales contract with the dollar figures. If he doesn't have a good mastery of the English language, it would have served him well to take along a friend or family member who did. As for the dealer, it is time for the attorney general to act.

Richard

jmonroe

It's amazing that dealers like this stay in business!

I agree. When I purchased my last 3 cars (’05,’06 and ’09) from 3 different dealerships I was pleasantly surprised with how the auto sales industry has turned itself around. Then we read about things like this and it all comes back to us.

I’m sure the good ones are still fighting the stigma from years ago and the “old school” guys that are still around.

jmonroe

imidazol97

>I had a wooden stool

Some of the high fiber cereals I get taste like I'm eating wood.

jmonroe

This makes my yanking on the computer cord pale by comparison.

Nah…not really. Although it does sound like it runs in the neighborhood. :sick:

jmonroe

verdugo

The computer guys will appreciate I worked in my underwear

Those two sentences don't belong together :P

verdugo

I agree with what everybody says. I'm very much a "buyer beware" kind of guy. I'll add a step to my car shopping. In addition to reading car reviews, I'll do a search on the dealer to see if they're "old school."

That way I can save myself some aggravation and time.

jmonroe

It was summer and higher humidity that day. But I worked in my underwear with a dampened towel on floor and under the computer case to avoid static. No clothing greatly reduces chance of generating static electricity, right?

You’re right all right but we were on company property when I had it done and there is a dress code that’s enforced. Furthermore, there is NO WAY that I’m going to stand next to a guy, at work, that is dressed down to his skivvies. Just not gonna happen. The job can wait until he finds his ground strap.

jmonroe

explorerx4

So much for my great plan today. We got twice as much snow as originally forecast.
I never went to work, although I did log in and put in about around 6 hours.
Spent more than that rearranging the snow.
One of my BIL's was supposed to clear my mom's driveway, but he was delayed, so I ended doing it.
Plus, I ended up paying 2 of them each $20 for doing my neighbor's driveway.
It me about an hour to clear enough space for a small car to pull in off the street. It took them over an hour, each using a big snowblower to finish up his driveway.
That's why I paid them, plus it was a 20+ mile trip to get here one way.
I'll just ask for the money back from my neighbor when he returns from his cruise.
The snow is now piled up over 5 feet high in some places in the front of my house.
It did make me think about buying a pickup truck to bring my snowblower over to my mother's to clear her driveway.

isellhondas

Well, what that store did was wrong but the customer definatly was at fault too. I don't swallow the language barrier part either. I used to deal with a LOT of people from India. Microsoft hires them by the boatload and they all spoke English quite well.

And, yes, we used to hate it when people brought kids along. It's not fair to anyone especially the kids.

verdugo

Well, what that store did was wrong but the customer definatly was at fault too.

Agreed. Blame falls on both. The only part that the store seems to be 100% at fault is not refunding him the service contract money.

fezo

Good to know where all our excess snow went. We had maybe 6". Would have been loads more but we're right next to the coast so for the first several hours it was sleet and freezing rain. Maybe I need a rain blower....

explorerx4

My snowblower has replaceable rubber paddles. Great for removing puddles of water!
Not as good dealing with about 2 feet of snow.

snakeweasel

I did say a majority. If you are in good shape with a healthy heart shoveling snow should not be much of an issue. Now mind you I said healthy heart, many times the first sign of a bad heart condition is death.

sterlingdog

"...and they all spoke English quite well."

But do they understand what they are hearing? Ask people who call the "Help Desk".

Richard

driver100

Sounds like too much fiber in the diet. I'd see a doctor if I were you.

Too funny! (no more underline)

jmonroe

Now mind you I said healthy heart, many times the first sign of a bad heart condition is death.

Yes, I heard what you said and since we never know for sure that could mean living in a shell but that is no way to live. Given that shoveling snow has been proven to be very hazardous to people over 45, this should be left to younger people.

Now don't get me wrong about this because I'm not a saint when it comes to this because I have shoveled plenty of snow way past 45 but I do far less of it as I have gotten older. I now favor a blower but when I was younger I looked at those as "wimp machines".

jmonroe

gogiboy

"The only part that the store seems to be 100% at fault is not refunding him the service contract money."

Precisely! At a minimum that is theft and given the amount it should be considered grand larceny. Why isn't the dealer being hauled off to jail? I would think a spending couple of days dressed in an orange jumpsuit while eating jail food might get his attention. As was made clear in the articles, Mr. K's imbroglio was not an isolated incident. Given how many poor dealerships I have researched that at the BBB who have received an "A" rating it must take real criminal talent to sink to the level of "F".

My preferred punishment would be to demand that the dealer wear the jumpsuit in their next TV spot while claiming that "I have a steal of a deal for you at Star Nissan!"

Gogiboy

gogiboy

" I have shoveled plenty of snow way past 45 but I do far less of it as I have gotten older. I now favor a blower but when I was younger I looked at those as "wimp machines".

My 79 year old mother still shovels the driveway for their house in SE MI and they average 40-45" a year. They have a snowblower, but don't seem to use it. At least they finally hired a service, which plows their 60 foot drive, but only when more than 3" fall and they just started the service last year.

My neighbors often laugh at me when I shovel my drive. Their typical comment is: why bother? It will melt off in two or three days. Often true, but not always.

Gogiboy

stickguy

well, I am over 45 (not by much though) and managed to survive shoveling today (all 6' of it). I don't really lift that much, mostly push to the edge then toss it up onto the lawn. But, did have to carry some of the pile at the bottom.

did not seem to be putting undo stress on myself though.

next time, guess I better drag the teenager out of bed to do it! Although I really did want to get some exercise.

as to the heart attacks, gotta figure most of those people were having it soon anyway. Just a matter of where and when.

michaellno

well, I am over 45 (not by much though) and managed to survive shoveling today (all 6' of it). I don't really lift that much, mostly push to the edge then toss it up onto the lawn. But, did have to carry some of the pile at the bottom.

6 feet of snow? :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

I'm guessing you meant 6 inches .. nonetheless, if it's the wet, heavy snow, that can still be a lot to move.

We've been lucky here in CO in that the last couple of storms have dumped probably 6-8" each where I live, but it's the light, fluffy stuff that is easily handled.

Spring storms here tend to bring the wet heavy stuff that can be a pain to shovel. I've got pictures of a storm from March '03 where the piles on either side of my driveway were over 6' (yes, feet) tall!

driver100

I read "The Haggler" on NYTimes.com. It is a consumer advocate column.

Good story and probably our story of the week, since it is the car sales story of the week.

I couldn't see the follow up 2nd article, I had to be a subscriber, so maybe you could copy and paste that.

It is unfortunate when businesses will con people because they are handicapped...in this case by their lack of knowledge about English.

You would hope the dealer wouldn't have taken advantage of them, tjhey could have made a nice profit without totally scamming people.

Some people, like the Bernie Madoffs of the world, do not have a conscience unfortunately.

jmonroe

as to the heart attacks, gotta figure most of those people were having it soon anyway. Just a matter of where and when.

I’m sure everyone here knows I ain’t no doctor but this point has been debated before and most real doctors feel that working out in the cold lifting shovel full’s of snow for even 20/30 minutes can cause problems for people with supposedly healthy hearts. Ergo…the joggers, bicyclists, gym guys that do some pretty heavy lifting that show up in emergency rooms. And yeah, even guys that drink their vegee and fruit concoctions.

Shoveling snow is by no means considered a good exercise. Just spouting off what real doctors have been saying for years.

jmonroe

jwilliams2

Agreed. And being among the over 65 group I have tried to be careful. Of course, not much I could do during the recent 10 years or so I worked for a dealership, when 6 or 7 of us had to dig out 120 or so cars every snow day. At most dealers, the sales staff gets the pleasure of that job. I'm just glad to be fully retired looking at the 22" or so just dumped on us here.

But, at home, I've paid someone to do it for the last 20 years or so.

graphicguy

Now mind you I said healthy heart, many times the first sign of a bad heart condition is death.

Snake....when the Dr told me I was had had a "mild" heart attack, I asked him what constituted being classified "mild". He said, "......you're still living".

Pretty good definition.

gogiboy....I like your suggestion for Star Nissan. A month or so of prison, and a year or two of community service in addition to refunding everyone's "fees" that they took over the last 12 months should do the trick, because what they did was felony theft.

I also like the commercials with the GM and owner in orange or yellow prison stripes.

sterlingdog

You are absolutely correct. I checked with my sister, the doctor, last night. She made several interesting points:

1. The cold temperatures can constrict the blood vessels, putting a bigger strain on the heart while shoveling snow.
2. Using only the arms while standing in an upright position can cause "pooling" of the blood in your legs and feet.
3. Throwing snow over your shoulder adds more strain to your heart muscles.
4. Picking up scoops that are too big adds more strain.
5. Don't eat a big meal before or after you shovel snow, and drink plenty of water.
6. Don't shovel snow for more than about 20 minutes at a time. Go inside and take a rest for about an hour. Then do another 20 minutes.

Don't be foolish guys. This is serious business. My sister said that if you're over 40, you shouldn't even think about doing this yourself.

Richard

isellhondas

I appreciate the advice. I have learned a lot in this forum.

I guess I better be careful doing my weekly volunteer work today at the Foor Bank. A lot of lifting is required there.

fezo

I'm only a little over 40......

verdugo

My preferred punishment would be to demand that the dealer wear the jumpsuit in their next TV spot while claiming that "I have a steal of a deal for you at Star Nissan!"

That would be great!

verdugo

I couldn't see the follow up 2nd article, I had to be a subscriber, so maybe you could copy and paste that.

Driver,

I'll sump it up for you. The reporter got Nissan USA involved. They highly encouraged the dealer to refund all of the money. After stalling for a year, the dealer magically sent the full amount.

The person from Nissan USA also gave his email address so that other customers who had problems with this dealership could email him and get their issue resolved.

Unfortunately, Nissan USA recognized that there wasn't much they could do to make the dealer behave. I'd think that they could revoke their franchise, but I guess they can't.

oldfarmer50

"...You should use the "Jipst method" of snow removal..."

As contrasted to the "Jipst Method" of car buying which involves a lot of shoveling. :P

oldfarmer50

"...too much fiber..."

LMAO! Now that's funny right there!

isellhondas

That dumb dealer brought a lot of bad press on himself when all he had to do was refund the money.

Serves him right!

jmonroe

I guess I better be careful doing my weekly volunteer work today at the Foor Bank. A lot of lifting is required there.

It’s always a good idea to watch what you’re lifting as we get older but it’s the lifting combined with the cold temperature that’s the killer here (literally).

FWIW, I don’t know how much “Foor” weighs so you might be able to lift this all day long without a problem.

jmonroe

canadiantoyota

I saw a similar thing on CNN. Some lady in New York removing the snow from what appeared to be a new car by flipping the metal shovel upside down and proceeding to run it across the hood, roof and trunk. I couldn't believe it, but when it appeared again not 30 minutes later, I had my wife watch. I also instructed her that this was NOT an approved method or tool to remove snow from a car.

As for reading instructions, I don't have to, that is what I have a wife for.
(I can get away with this as my wife does not read this blog!)

oldfarmer50

"...It took them over an hour..."

I hire a guy to plow for me these days so I just do between the cars by hand. We got about 13". Even though school was closed they called me into work to help shovel out the buses. First we have to use these big snow broom to rake the snow off, then we have to move the buses out of the way of the big plows. 200+ buses.

Man, I'm sore. :sick:

michaellno

I'm only a little over 40......

Is 50% considered "a little"?

:P

A belated happy birthday to you, Steve.

driver100

they could revoke their franchise, but I guess they can't.

I would hope most franchisers can expect a certain level of honesty and behavior from a franchisee. After all, it doesn't sound too good for the Nissan name as well. It is probably not easy to prove and although the dealer is exceptionally sleazy on paper there isn't too much real proof of what he did.

Thanks for the run down on the rest of the article though. I like those consumer stories whan they expose these horse thieves. Funny how the dealer has to give back the money to make it right, which he should have done in the first place. For every one caught, I wonder how many we never hear about.

driver100

I'm only a little over 40......

Yes, he's just 1.5X over!

driver100

3. Throwing snow over your shoulder adds more strain to your heart muscles.

Thank you for printing that Richard. It clearly states how dangerous shovelling snow can be. That #3 is a big one, because when you have that much weight up in the air higher than your heart, your heart is straining to get the blood to that area....that is what the doctor down the street told me.

houdini1

Maybe those of us who have attained senior citizen status should just take a big dose of viagra any time we have to work out in the cold. I think it is supposed to relax those constricted blood vessels !!

jmonroe

Maybe those of us who have attained senior citizen status should just take a big dose of viagra any time we have to work out in the cold. I think it is supposed to relax those constricted blood vessels !!

I gotta think about that for awhile…I’d hate like hell to be out there shoveling for 4 hours. :surprise:

jmonroe

fezo

Is 50% considered "a little"?

Sure, as in "Trust me, the final price on this car will be just a little more than that number.".....

sterlingdog

Craig, I'm glad that you mentioned your work at the food bank. Be especially careful about lifting boxes above your head. We also work at our church food bank. If the boxes of cans or jars are pretty heavy, I'll empty some from the box first. Then I put it on the high shelf, or take it down from the high shelf. When we bag the groceries and put them on the cart to take to the pick up area, I don't over load the cart. I have to pull the cart about a half of a block. That can be a strain if it's too heavy. I rathter make two or three trips than over exert myself. We enjoy helping, but we have to be aware of our limitations.

Richard

sterlingdog

Yes, you are a little over 40. In your condition, I don't want to hear that you tried to be a he-man. You, of all people, don't need to be doing manual labor. If you're going to make it to 100, you need to leave the heavy work to the younger generation. You've served your time in the trenches.

Richard