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Most people who have owned VWs say never again. I keep thinking they seem like such well styled and thought out cars they muct have turned the curve on reliability. But, I guess it is just wishful thinking. My brother bought a 2008 Jetta (he said he wouldn't buy one again after his 1980 approx Rabbit that was a disaster) and he had service and mechanical problems. For one thing, the rubber around the doors kept coming off and the dealer wasn't too quick to get it fixed.
So, although it seems like a good buy, probably a 1 or 2 year old Fusion or Sonata would be a better buy for under $20k.
Thanks for bringing me to my senses.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Dated a girl in 1973 that had one. Squareback, no heat in winter.
Drove like crap and first trip to the VW garage came up with a
repair estimate twice what the piece of junk was worth. I got her
into a 70 Olds 442. I had a 71 Cutlass Supreme convertible she liked
driving and we traded cars a lot. Mine was the show cruiser, hers
was the tire burner.
If I had $20k+-V6Mustang
If I had $30k+-V8Mustang
If I had $50k-Buy Gold
If I had $100k-Buy Land.
Cars are a poor investment.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Got it. Feel of the road - not feel of the car.
mako - I like your choices there.
An 80 Rabbit was enough to drive anyone away from VW long term. 32 years and counting for me.
$50K - BMW 335i Sedan. 4 doors, seriously fast with a 6 speed stick, RWD, & sports package. Alpine White/Black Interior (might have to skip leather to keep it's price under $50K). Giddy-up.
$30K - Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. 4 Door, 4WD, Convertible. Let the good times roll.
$20K - Used BMW M3 Coupe (E46). I'll take it in any color EXCEPT for Phoenix Yellow - YUCK! Black Interior, 6-Speed Manual (not SMG), 18" wheels, Xenon Headlights. RWD & a Screaming 333 horsepower, hand-built Inline 6.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
If I had $100k-Buy Land.
Cars are a poor investment
Interesting, after a certain point you would rather invest than put the money into a car. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it is very smart.
But, I have to ask you this, out of curiosity. If you know you have enough savings to live on comfortably for the rest of your life, what is wrong with getting the $50k or $100k car? If your $50k or $100k investment doubles, what will you do with the extra money....buy a $200k Bently?
Isn't there a point when you just say, I wouldn't mind getting the best car I can afford, and I know I have enough income to live on?
I know, some people (friends we have that are multi-millionaires) who get more of a thrill saving a few $1000 on an Uplander - probably drove the poor salesman crazy for over a year asking about it, than they would buying a Bently which they can probably easily afford.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
NYC, you went from the highest price car to the lowest. That must mean something. Maybe, my wife the family therapist can tell me what that means.
I was thinking, for under $30k my 2008 328 hardtop convertible with 38k miles would be a pretty good buy.
I like your $50k choice. Almost what I am getting, white with oyster and black interior (don't know why they had to call it oyster, I don't like oysters) though, and automatic because they don't have 335 sticks in Canada, and AWD because you do need that in Canada.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That will get you almost 2 acres from me. Howdy Neighbor! Can I borrow that Mustang for a while?
Too bad you didn't save that 442. It would be worth some serious money now.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In 73-74 anyone in oil was well off. She told her sister she
needed new rear tires. Car went into the oil company shop
and came out with all new everything at no charge. My
Cutlass was traded for a new 77 Trans Am (think Smokey and
the Bandit) which I didn't like near as much as the Olds.
Mainly because the payment was one dollar more than my
house payment. Then I got three 70 in a 55 tickets putting me
on SR-22 (super high insurance rates) which caused the sale of
the Trans Am for a Toyota Corona (totaled 6 days later in a snow
storm) which became a 68 Mustang. That is why, to this day I
think of vehicles as being temporary property which lose value
in a big hurry.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
is Canadian Thanksgiving Day. Sooo...Happy Turkey Day to ya, eh!
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Sure. I'll run right up...
The 535 seems to be where most of the effort was focused.
It's just very harmonious.
The other 5's have more power or fuel economy, but they are not quite as balanced an experience.
The newer BMW's don't quite have the steering feel of the older versions.
In a big sedan, I don't see it being an issue.
Not sure about something smaller and sportier.
For you Hyundai fans (jmonroe), one time I when I exited the hotel, there were 2 black Genesis sitting side by side in the 'money spots' in the porte-cochere. The lower front areas were somewhat different, so I think one was a v6 and the other a v8.
is Canadian Thanksgiving Day. Sooo...Happy Turkey Day to ya, eh!
That was very nice of you and of her to think of that. How does your wife know it is our Thanksgiving Day?
We like to celebrate both Thanksgiving Days..yours and ours, since we are honorary Americans since we spend part of the year in Florida. Canadians should be able to hold dual citizenship....Canadian and Floridian.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sure. I'll run right up...
Our dollar has slid from $1.06 U.S to about .96 U.S. So, now is a good time for you to buy, you will save 4%, $1200.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's just very harmonious.
I have the same impressions as you do. I considered the 550 but the salesman confirmed my thoughts....why get a slightly faster car that is going to use a fair bit more gas. Also, I think it will be harder to sell when it comes time to trade it in....at least they will use it as a reason to give you less for it. Licence and insurance will probably be more too.
BMW's 6 cylinder engines are their strong point and with the turbo what more could you want? And it is balanced too I am told, in a way you can't balance a V6 or 8. That is what I admire...the engineering.
I am glad you did get to try it and that you could appreciate what makes a BMW special. I agree it isn't quite the same as a 3 Series, it has been modified to be more of a cruiser, but it still has many of the 3 Series characteristics.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
She's Catholic and therefore has a Catholic Calendar which lists
just about every day as some sort of occasion.
It's also Columbus Day here, but the only thing here in Virginia
that is different is banks aren't open. Some US areas have big
celebrations about Columbus and America's discovery.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Or maybe the X1 will finally show up?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Columbus Day - well there is the no mail delivery that comes with it.... Were I still working I'd have to be working today....
It was a beautiful gray color and had the sports package.
I saw one in black, but for some reason it wasn't quite the right color for the body style.
Back driving my 10 year old Explorer. I still like it.
X1s are on sale now. The 4 cylinder is supposed to be amazing. That 4 cyl will be used in 3s and in 5 Series cars, probably in January or February 2012.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yup, once Lee Trevino came to Canada for a golf game. He bought a $2 magazine, put down $10 US, got the magazine and about $12 back as change. He said, is this a great country or what, you buy something and you get more back than what you paid".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
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I remember having that nice getting more change than you paid expreience when we honeymooned in Nova Scotia. I also remember the bit of a shoch when we got back into the states on the 4th of July, got a $28 lunch bill, gave them $40 and that wasn't enough.....
$20K: Hard, most new cars I like exceed 20K threshold (all well-equipped compacts cross this line now), new: Honda Fit, or Hyundai Elantra Touring , slightly used: Mazda3 s 5-door or Subaru Impreza WRX.
$30K: new: Subaru Impreza WRX 5-door or low-end Audi A3, slightly used: Acura TSX, or well-equipped Audi A3
$50K: new: BMW 328i Wagon w/ manual and a few packages (BTW - just did, probably last manual wagon with I-6 they'll ever make - picking it up next week in Munich :shades: ), slightly used: Audi S4 or S6 pref. wagons w/manual,
$100K: new: Cadillac CTS-V wagon w/manual (yes, they make them), used: well who knows.
I think $30-$40 category is missing. Plenty of very competitive entries there: Audi A3 comes in mind.
Why those hatches/wagons? Forward of center pillar they are identical to sedans, behind it they offer versatility without sacrificing anything from the ride and handling. I do care about looks, but only to extent of "not offending" me. I grew up in world of hatcbacks and wagons and I find their two-piece styling as appealing as three-piece sedans.
No, SUVs, even small ones, don't even come close - they are clunky, too big, but not really that spacious (if I wanted so much space, I would get Odyssey); and they don't have manuals (well, those manuals are disappearing anyway, but that's a diiferent story).
Yes, coupes and convertibles do look better and may be fun, but they're only good to me as second/third cars. To me they're like pretty girls that grew up in upper-middle class, so they can't cook, won't clean, daddy bought them Mercedes at age 18, so you should, too. They make you feel good for about 10 minutes and regret you met them for the rest of the day.
The five doors, on the other hand, are still "pretty enough" (some could actually be quite stunning), but grew up in a modest family, which means they know the world better, have reasonable expectations, good financial and relationship habits, and you can grow old with them without worrying.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
A story about Canada - years ago, when I traveled for business, I was sent to Cambridge to teach a class at a customer site. Was stopped at Customs because my company was getting paid to deliver the training; apparently, the officials in Canada would prefer not to have to outsource that type of work to US citizens.
Upshot was, I was fined $200 for a "minor" infraction of NAFTA. A customs agent escorted me to an ATM to withdraw money to pay the fine (no checks, no credit cards).
The good news was that I put the cost of the fine on my expense report and actually made money on the deal because of the exchange rate.
What I would buy (new) for $20K, $30K, $50K and $100K:
$20K - Mazda 3
$30K - Mustang GT
$50K - 335i
$100K - CTS V wagon ($70K) + Mustang GT ($30K)
Some people buy cars through a broker that will obtain the car, modify it for Canada, and import it for a fee. This works for certain brands, but would be a disaster for some brands. If I bought in the US I would not be allowed to get the car serviced in Canada. BMW Canada is completely separate from BMW USA.
If I did that I would have the car made and go to Germany for a tour of the factory. You save 4% which covers the flight, you drive the car for a few weeks in Europe, they will ship it to the USA, and you can negotiate an even better price with the dealer.......the 4% comes off that price. It is smart marketing, people who go to the plant are extra loyal customers.
I could buy a BMW and leave it in Florida to use when we go there. But, if we only use the car for a few months I think I would get a 1 or 2 year old Sonata or Fusion.
Most BMWs are about $10,000 more in Canada. There are higher freight costs, business costs, health care costs, salaries are more....everything costs more here. We only have 10% of your population so there isn't the economies of size savings. Also, you are right, I wouldn't be able to claim it as a tax deduction it's a good plan but there isn't a chance I would come out ahead.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's a good story, and it works going the other way too. I had trouble going to the US when I sold books...it is taking away work a US citizen could be doing. Had to be careful what I said at the border.
$100K - CTS V wagon ($70K) + Mustang GT ($30K)
lol That's a good plan, get 2 cars instead of one.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree with most of your thoughts about cars and women. Though sometimes the old clunker wants to be a Rolls Royce so badly that can make your life miserable too.
Americans just don't buy station wagons or hatchbacks in big numbers. Europeans love them (usually called estate wagons there) and Canadians are in the middle. But the X1 will replace the 3 Series wagons in Canada...it holds more, costs a lot less, is a lot more practical overall.
I would have preferred a manual in the new 535, but it isn't offered in Canada. Not enough buyers for it. Surprised you can get it on a CTS!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Those things were built in New Stanton PA, about 25 miles from where I live. The plant was originally built by Chrysler to build K Cars back in the early 70s but they never finished the plant and it sat dormant until VW finished it and started building the Rabbit there in the late 70s. I had a neighbor up the street that was a line manager there while the plant was building them. It then sat dormant for a long time. Then Sony moved in and did TVs there. In fact, Son #1 worked at the Sony place as bean counting manager. When things were starting to look a little shaky there in 2007 he left. Now that place is an indutrial park.
While that plant sat dormant after VW left they used to do Autocross racing there in the HUGE parking lot. That’s where Son #1 killed his ’91 Grand Prix. I even went there once to watch him help do it one Spring weekend when we came to the Burgh for a visit around ‘94/’95. Just as we were moving back to PA from SC in ’97 both the engine and tranny on that thing died simultaneously.
When he went to work for Sony around 2001 he said he often looked at the parking lot area where they did the Autocross racing and said to himself, “yeah, it was over there that I got my love for racing”. He should have been looking over there and thinking, “yeah, it was over there that I learned that it ain’t good for a cars health to be constantly stomping on the gas then jamming on the brakes in rapid fire order for about a quarter mile twisting run or so”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would have a serious problem with that.
When we bought our first house in ’69 it was new and our payments were just under $200 a month for a $23K house. That set the precedent for car payments for us. I had a ’68 Olds Delta 88 Custom at the time with payments of around $88 a month. I replaced that with a ’75 Grand Prix in ’77 and to save our mental anguish with car payments I put down enough to hold the payment to just under $95 a month. I know, it’s just a mind game but that’s the way we did it.
Since Mrs. j writes all the checks in our house, that’s why when I bought the Genny in ’09 I paid cash for it. Do you really think that I wanted her to have monthly reminders, of any amount, that I bought a new car that she didn’t think we needed? :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
$30K- Z06, STi,
$50K- Boss 302, 1 Series M Coupe, Cayman S
$100K- 911 C2
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
$50K- Boss 302, 1 Series M Coupe, Cayman S$100K- 911 C2
Looks like a list of alphabet soup, not cars! :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have never seen 2 Genny’s side by side anywhere other than in a dealers lot. There aren’t that many around me that’s for sure. However, when I went to visit my brother in Florida a couple of weeks ago (his wife now has her second, an ’11 V6) there were quite a few in all of the parking lots down there. She was the first in her hood to get one in August of ‘09 after test driving my V8 in July of ’09 when they came to the Burgh for a visit. Now there are about 6 in her hood, all V6s I think.
FWIW, one of the ways I can tell a 6 from an 8 is the V8 says 4.6 on the trunk. In ’09 there was also a chrome strip on the lower part of the doors of the V8 and the rims are a little different but going down the pike at 70 I can’t read the rims that well the few times I’ve even seen one on the road. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am pretty sure it even has a 3D view.
That makes my blood boil considering the fact that NAFTA has practically destroyed our country!!! :mad: I have several friends who have lost their businesses because of that treaty. Two of them lost their homes.
Richard
Lucky that never happened to me as I've never used an ATM in my life.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I am pretty sure it even has a 3D view.
Yes, I am getting a NAV system and it shows a view from above the car to show the trajectory you are following. Part of the Executive Package also includes, Automatic trunk (whatever that is?), Rear View Camera, Lumbar support, Voice recognition, SIRIUS, HiFiSound-Professional.
Premium Seating includes ventilated seats, and Nappa leather, and M package, 19inch wheels, M Sport Package, Rear Spoiler.
Not sure about 3D unless that is the camera view from over head.
It will take me a year to learn how to do all this stuff.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hold on there. That might be true, but NAFTA does a lot more good for both countries than harm. We buy lots of books from the USA and US suppliers are happy to have us...we are making up for a lot of the slower sales in the USA.
Today the world has a global economy and you can't live in isolation any longer. If you try to protect your industry you will pay more for goods and you will be taken advantage of. Competition is good. Companies have to be competitive on a global scale. You need things like raw materials including oil from Canada, one day soon you might need water. 1000s of Canadians cross the border every day to shop in the US.
I am sorry your friends lost their business because of NAFTA, but they were dinosaur businesses if they can't compete in the global market place.
You have to adapt to the new realities. Protectionist policies just do not work.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well said dino...right on, good thoughtful insight!
Richard has been away lately, must have had some cool aid at the Tea Party.
Hope he wasn't marching on Wall Street....................
As in life with people, countries thrive when they cooperate for their mutual benefit. By the way, your welcome for our help in Afghanistan, neighbor (neighbour).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Fortunately, it doesn't always turn out that way. I married such a girl. She was reared by a nanny, and never saw a kitchen except to walk through and greet the cook. Her father bought her a Pontiac rather than a Mercedes. See the movie "The Help". Once we were married, she taught herself how to cook. Until recent years, she cleaned her own house and did all of the laundry---as well as being employed for 40 years. I was one of the lucky ones.
Richard
I beg to differ. The textile industry was very efficient at controlling costs while being able to pay good wages to thousands who are now unemployed. They were able to support themselves and make a good profit without any government subsidies.
"...there are scores of people in other places of America that got their jobs or opened their businesses thanks to NAFTA."
I suppose that explains the 10% unemployment rate (higher in some areas) in this country today. If you count those who have given up looking for work, or those who have taken part time jobs, the rate is closer to 15%. If new businesses opened their doors thanks to NAFTA, they certainly aren't able today to hire new or additional employees.
"...consumers everywhere getting less expensive fruits, vegetables, or other products."
And just who pray tell wants these cheaper fruits and vegetables from outside this country? There are warnings every day about dangerous imported foods from outside the U.S.---from China, Mexico, and other Asian countries.
Trace the economic implications since the day that Clinton signed the NAFTA Treaty. Then tell me that America is in better shape than before. I WILL say that the treaty has bolstered the economies of other countries such as Mexico, Columbia, Asian nations and others---whose drug cartels, corrupt leaders, and black market gangs have exploited the workers and made America the laughing stock of the free market world.
Richard
Good question
For $20K or less: Well the wifes sonata is doing goo so I would choose that.
$30K: The Sonata Turbo, I like my ragtop so I might give the Chrysler 200 convertible a try. Maby the Buick LaCross.
$50K: I like the Equuis
$100K: Not sure i would spend that much on a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No, you hold on there. Read my response post to Dino. Furthermore, I take offense at your remark about my drinking the Kool-Aid at the Tea Party. Considering the fact that you are not a U.S. citizen and were not reared here, perhaps you don't quite understand a group that simply supports the framework of the U.S. Constitution and less involvement by government in our daily lives. I won't debate that issue further or make excuses for my involvement in it.
"...we are making up for a lot of the slower sales in the USA."
Had it not been for NAFTA, perhaps we wouldn't have slower sales today.
"Today, the world has a global economy and you can't live in isolation any longer."
That is a given. I'm not saying that we should. I AM saying that other countries should pay for the right to do business with us. Our exports don't leave this country with the same tariffs that we so dearly pay for our imports. That situation is killing our industries and hurting our consumers.
"You need things like raw materials including oil from Canada..."
Give me a break. We are capable of drilling and refining our own oil. Big government and the current oil industries prevent that from happening. Alaska and the Gulf aren't exactly void of oil. Still, if Canada can send us oil at $30 a barrel, then by all means send it on to us.
"...but they were dinosaur businesses if they can't compete in the global market place."
Bull! The textile industries were efficient with the latest in technology equipment. They produced fabrics and clothing of quality....unlike the cheap garments being imported into this country today. At least I could buy a shirt without the buttons falling off or the seams looking crooked or the patterns not being properly aligned.
"Protectionist policies just do not work."
There has to be a balance---a balance that favors the U.S. to the point that the consumer can purchase quality and the companies can make a decent profit. It is becoming more and more difficult to purchase any products that say on the label "Made in America". There is something very wrong with that picture.
Richard
How about an Equuis for you and one for your wife?
Can you actually get a new Sonata for under $20k?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You beat me to it. I was out last night.
The problems that we have today with our food supply never existed before NAFTA. As you said we are warned almost every day about what we are now eating. We never had to give our food supply a second thought but today its with us all the time. Sure, NAFTA helped some people but by far they don’t live in this country.
It wasn’t broke but the politicians had to fix it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl