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On other point, your claim on diminished produce safety due to imports has no standing whatsoever. For every report of poisonous food from evil Mexico, or Guatemala, I can find you a report about e.coli from fields of California, peanut butter from Georgia, or lysteria in cheese from Wisconsin. Moreover, over last fifteen years I have lived here, I am not aware of a SINGLE person who fell to food born desease (don't count stomach ache due to overeating or regular single day absense from work). It's a small sample, but it's just a reverse (equally valid or invalid) of yours with two people who lost their business to NAFTA.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sorry, I was a little over the top as I often am, in remarks....just looking for a reaction to see if you were out there.....hadn't heard from you for a few days.
At least I did what I set out to do.
Just to be clear, I am a prudent Conservative person....as opposed to a Conservative who thinks there is only one side to a story. Some of the ideas you expressed, such as taxing companies that want to do business with the US are straight out of Donald's Trump's campaign book. Ridiculous! Are you going to pay more to buy an inferior product just to support your own country. GM was a health and benefit operation that just happens to make cars as a sideline. They couldn't have survived much longer....that business model doesn't work any more.
You love your country, as you should, but a lot of the rhetoric is really over the top. For example:
Had it not been for NAFTA, perhaps we wouldn't have slower sales today
NAFTA has nothing to do with slower sales. It was a faulty banking system along with corrupt mortgage companies that put your country, and a lot of others in this situation. Don't place blame on others for your countries problems...take responsibility. And, I am not an Obama fan, but it was on George Ws watch that all the problems came about........every one conveniently forgets that. He escaped the fall out, Obama is the one dealing with it (though not very well).
if Canada can send us oil at $30 a barrel, then by all means send it on to us.
You pay $85 a barrel of oil from your enemies but you want to pay $30 a barrel for oil from Canada? That is one reason the US has a bad reputation around the world. You would like to exploit your friends...what do you want to do with your enemies? We get blamed and exploited because of your government regulations? Take responsibility for your own problems, don't blame or try to exploit us poor Canadians.
The textile industries were efficient with the latest in technology equipment. They produced fabrics and clothing of quality..
Our textile industries were 2nd to none too, but they disappeared about 30 years ago. You aren't getting textiles from Canada, and it had nothing to do with NAFTA (NORTH AMERICA free trade agreement). Your friends are bitter, but they are directing their feelings to the wrong country. They are misguided, people don't want to pay more for goods and they don't really care where they are made. Markets change, there are no guarantees, someone found a way to make products that are just about as good - sometimes better, for less money. Your friends didn't see the changes. It's the same with Blockbuster, CD manufacturers, Buggy whip manufacturers, the world changes and some businesses don't survive.
I AM saying that other countries should pay for the right to do business with us.
In a free market system companies go where it is cheaper and more efficient to make the items. Zenith and RCA could still make TVs in the USA. You might pay twice as much to buy them, but it could be done. Probably there are more American companies who make and import goods into the USA than offshore companies doing this. The US thrives on competitive free market business, now you want to make rules? It will put your country into the stone age.
It is becoming more and more difficult to purchase any products that say on the label "Made in America".
It's worse paying an auto worker $80 an hour when you can pay people $30 an hour to do the same thing. You will pay more for an inferior product and have less to spend on other things. Protectionist policies do not work. The free market does. Steve Jobs died last week. Did he sit around wining that Blackberry (Canadian company by the way) had the cell phone market locked up? No, he came up with a better more user friendly phone...that is the free market system in action. That is the way America became great. Not by complaining that life isn't fair because someone found a better way to do it.
. Considering the fact that you are not a U.S. citizen and were not reared here,
We will soon own property in the US. I have relatives who live in the US. Our economy is closely reliant on the US, you being our largest trading partner. I may not have the right to vote, but I have the right to make comments, unless you want to make protectionist policies against free speach.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Beautiful! What a classic line, I wish I had thought of it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Dino, replied to this better than I could. We get wonderful rasberries, blueberries, strawberries all year long, from Chile and other countries in South America....and at the lowest prices I have seen for years.
Seldom a problem. Most of the problem food has been from lettuce, tomatoes, and strawberries from California. Peanuts from the US have been contaminated.
Talk about people not taking responsibility for their own problems...blame it all on NAFTA or other country...couldn't be the USA.
If you travel to Europe, the mid East, China etc wear a Canadian cap or pin. People treat you really well.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When I was a kid, maybe 10 or 11, I didn’t know squat about the economy of this country. All I knew about money was that I had a paper route and it gave me some spending money. One day I ask my father why every label that I read said “Made in the USA”. His quick answer was, “you better hope that you never see one that says it was made somewhere else”. He then gave me a short lesson in economics. Obviously it’s out of control now and has been for a long time.
There is something very wrong with that picture.
Well, there are at least two of us here that agree with that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Seldom a problem. Most of the problem food has been from lettuce, tomatoes, and strawberries from California. Peanuts from the US have been contaminated.
When NAFTA came about that brought about cheaper foods and lower standards for how they are handled. Unfortunately, to compete, our industry did what they had to do to survive.
I’ll say it again, we never had this much of a problem with our food supply until NAFTA was formed and we started the massive importing of food to the US.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So what you see is more global reach that gives you impression of diminished safety, not the import supply. Food is probably safer than it's ever been. I don't know that for a fact, but I'm quite convinced it's true. I bet if you read aggregate of local newspapers from 70s, you will find far more food poisoning stories (in terms of incidents) than today. The difference today, same incident is reported fifty times in twenty channels.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
We had plenty enough news coverage in the 70s that if there was a wide spread problem we would have heard about it.
I’m not a farmer but I’ve talked to a few at the local farmers markets the past few summers and they told me that they have less controls imposed on them today than they did years ago but they still have more on them than the exporting countries do. Of course they say that they still do things the ‘old fashioned way’ because that’s the way they were taught but I’m sure when push comes to shove they’ll cave when they have to.
Maybe our resident ‘old farmer’ can add something to this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Is there a "Made in USA" sticker on the Gennie?
We are in a global economy. GM makes more money in China than they do in the US. I doubt if there is a car made with all parts made in the US.
It's a real stretch to say imported food is the reason there are more food related problems. If you don't take responsibility for what is wrong, and only want to blame "foreigners", then things will not improve.
The US exports lots of things, including junk mortgages....talk about toxic waste, that is the real reason the world including the US is in a deep recession, not because of NAFTA. Geez, blame any one but yourself!!! :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We didn't have about 4 24 hour a day news channels having to fill up air time. Many stories just weren't reported because there wasn't time to report them. Also, look at how many stories are recorded on cell phones or with instant video. In the 70s stories were recorded on film and had to be delivered to the TV station, then the film developed and edited...usually shown the next day.
Today, someone gets stomach cramps from a Burger King hamburger and the story is on the air in minutes, complete with video and the reaction of the other diners in the restaurant, before they have digested their food.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
But but but I thought our country was an over regulated nanny state??? How could there possible be less controls?
I'll agree with dino - 30 years ago we didn't have 24 hour news reporting on every story and we didn't have people calling the news with every stomach ache/consumer issue they had looking for their wrong to be righted.
Imported from Detroit’ car really from Canada, consumer group says
A U.S. consumer lobby group is taking Chrysler to task over advertisements depicting the Chrysler 300 as 'Imported from Detroit.' The luxury sedan is assembled in Brampton, Ont Canada
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Now you’re taking things out of context to make your point. I know you have a propensity to do this but please don’t do it here. I never said that NAFTA was the problem for all of the words ills but it hasn’t helped me as a US citizen; especially with our food supply.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Leave me alone!!! BTW, I still want you to respond to my emergency requests in two minutes, educate my children, provide absolute safety at airport, protect my business from failing, and get me that free hip replacement at age of 105.
Don't interfere with my children!!! But boy, my neighbor's children - just look at them. Somebody should come in and take them away.
My house is my castle!!! Did you look at this guy's grass? Whoa, let's send him a letter saying if he doesn't cut it by next week, we will have his title.
Everybody wants to be left alone and do as they please. Everybody wants to tell their neighbor what to do, how, when, with whom, what to buy, for how much, what color, etc.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm lost
Is this really news? No - it's funny, but it's not news.
And the nanny state came to the rescue. Did they consider the fact that it was a CORN MAZE and they could've walked right out???
I like their commercials too but you have to be able to back it up.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Give 'em Hell guys !! That makes 3 of us.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Didn’t I say that I wasn’t a farmer? I can only go by what a few have told me. I’m not saying that it’s absolutely true but I trust them more than I do the media. I also said that maybe our resident farmer could add something to this.
FWIW, I personally don’t like the perfect look that all of our fruits and veggies have today. They look like they are made in a factory but we’re getting what we like to see.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Nothing wrong with being loyal to your own country, just don't blame the rest of the world when it gets itself into a financial mess.
I am far from a socialist, and I have never said you have to support the rest of the world. I don't think you mind exporting cars to China, exporting iPads and iPods to the entire world, exporting orange juice to Canada....but you don't want to import goods from other countries.
I hold the USA in very high regard, even buying property there, and invest in companies (stock market), but I am beginning to see how people around the world get a very negative picture of the US - with that kind of attitude.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I experienced this in Australia decades ago. People in shops, restaurants, almost anywhere would ask if we were Canadian. One said "You probably get that a lot," to which we said yes, that's true. She explained that the Canadians get annoyed if you ask if they are Americans but Americans don't mind being mistaken for Canadians.
Now I am by no means aligned with Richard (and probably jmonroe) here but when we began cutting deals that resulted in killing our own industries (which pre-dates NAFTA, but that was the one that opened it all up an once) we were making a huge mistake. We are seeing almost everything made to the lowest price point. Heck in government the lowest bid is almost always required to be given the contract. That is how space shuttles explode. It is how roads built to last 60 years are rubble in 30.
Richard's Carolina factories are just like lemko's Philadelphia ones. Botany - gone. The folks that make locomotives - gone. It's not like there is no demand for this stuff. You can only do so much of a service economy. You have to make things and do it in a way that keeps a decent sized blue collar work force employed.
BTW - be it from the Tea Party or anyone else - I refuse to yield defending the Constitution to your side. If all the ills of the country were because we were doing unconstitutional things you could have settled it all out in the Supreme Court. I find most of the issues fall in where the Constitution is silent. That is how it is supposed to be. The founding fathers did not give us a full game plan. They gave us the rules of operation. The rest is up to us.
I certainly don't see U.S. citizens flocking to Canada to buy vacation homes.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You're not looking there are loads of them. I have a few friends - couples - that are one American and one Canadian. Keeps life interesting.
I do have to say that in dealing with international trade we have to admit Canada has its own unique place in our market. This has gone on for generations and I'm not going to get too upset if I buy a Canadian car (though my Windstall was Canadian) vs. an American one.
I don't think the Constitution is silent at all, The tenth amendment clearly states that the powers not given to the federal government are reserved to the states. The problem is that Washington likes one size fits all solutions, it's easier to buy them that way.
I'll never proclaim my country as perfect, or even close. One asset we do offer, and, IMO, better than any other country in the world: You can re-invent yourself at any time. The opportunities are endless - not always easy, but for the truly motivated, they are multitude. If I decided today (at age ~45) that I wanted to be, say, a nurse, I could submit applications to the numerous educational institutes, one of which would no doubt accept me. I could apply for grants and loans if I couldn't pay, the latter of which I would almost certainly be offered.
Many land-grant institutions offer free enrollment (no credit) for senior citizens. If I were age 65, I could take some horticulture classes for free, then pay my $105 to the Secretary of State's office, and have my own gardening business.
It's not without cost or effort - sometimes heavy - and you CAN do it in many other countries, but it is generally a LOT more difficult.
If you ask immigrants why they came here, many of them will still cite something to the effect of the US being the land of opportunity. No, we don't guarantee that you'll succeed, but the options to try, try again are plentiful.
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Well, you have to watch out for blanket statements. I just checked the Bureau of Labor Statistics for Oklahoma and our unemployment rate is 5.6% and has hovered around 5.5% for the last 6 months.
While I won't argue the merits or demerits of NAFTA I will say that OK can't be much better--or worse--than surrounding states or everyone would be moving here. Not all is as bleak as some would have you believe, particularly those numbskulls on talk radio who have sipped their own kool aid for so long they don't realize it's laced with hallucinogens.
Gogiboy
Check the numbers in the Gulf Islands and/or the Okanagan regions of B.C. and you might have a change of heart.
Of course, it all depends on what the meaning of "flocking" is.
I criticize my own country all the time...wasteful spending, too lenient on criminals, high taxes, should put fees on medical service, wasted tax dollars to appease one province etc etc etc. I didn't realize that your country was perfect. Sometimes negative comments lead to answers, but if you don't want to hear anything negative just go on living in your ideal dream world and think everything is OK :sick:
Many Americans have cottages in Canada, and the ones that did buy are doing well....property values have not gone down, and the Canadian dollar has gone up. People don't flock here to buy them up because the prices didn't crash......one thing we do regulate fortunately is our banks.
I don't think I actually criticized your country anyway, what I remember saying is don't blame NAFTA or free trade for your problems, I think if the banks and mortgage companies didn't implode you wouldn't have the problems you do now.....that's not being critical, it's just a statement you agree with or not.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You are a bit bias since you hope to inherit a car or other valuables from one of those two people.
When we travel to Europe people first assume we are American. When we explain we are from Canada they have a warm smile. I am just saying that is the way it is, you can get your own meaning from it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good point....also Northern Ontario....lots of lakes, good fishing and nice temperatures in the summer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pa (20 years), but have lived in Virginia for the last 40 years and consider it home even though Pa people are great and I still have friends there. Taxes will run you out because of all the pork projects and 1/2 of every bid for roadwork/building going to the criminal enterprise system.
Virginia has what I want in a state. Lower taxes (than Pa), relatively stable home prices, good honest hard working people, nice smooth roads with intuitive signage and my favorite as a gun collector/shooter (not a hunter), constitutional gun rights.
I've traveled abroad since 1969 and seen the difference going from "Americans welcome" to the "Americans not so welcome" when in foreign countries. Hope I didn't add to that last notation. That makes me proud to be a Virginian, but ashamed of DC politics and the way Americans are viewed after the Corporations took over this country and spread all their toxic paper worldwide.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
We have similar things here with the community college. If I don't get credit for the classes since they are audited, do they count toward requirements like the horticultural license you mention?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I only mind when we import goods that are inferior to what we can provide for ourselves and make our life more miserable.
BTW, if you don’t want our OJ you can always try squeezing hockey pucks.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've never seen anyone around these parts with a "license" to own a lawn & garden shop, in any case.
My boyfriend's mom is considering taking some photography classes - while she may never try to make any money from it, she might... and doing so would give her some tools she doesn't have now.
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I did NOT make a blanket statement. I also checked the stats. The national average is currently 9.1%---NOT counting those who have given up looking for work or are currently in part time positions. North Carolina is at 10.4%; South Carolina is at 11.1%; Michigan is at 11.2%, etc. Oklahoma may not be the best indicator, along with some other mid-western states. Your state is not densely populated. Also, part of the population has migrated to other areas to seek jobs. I would still maintain that your state's situation is pretty bleak---ghost towns (I saw them in July.), severe poverty among Native American Indians, dried up farm land, and idle oil fields. If that's "blanket", then just cover it up with the Kool-Aid.
Richard
If a balance doesn't favor us at all, then why bother to have competition? It would hardly be worth the effort. While your barbwire fence isn't the answer, some restrictions are needed on these imports. It hurts our industries and citizens not to have some limitations.
"...of yours with two people who lost their business(es) to NAFTA."
I said that two of them lost their HOMES. More than that lost their businesses. Also, I know hundreds who lost their jobs with those businesses. I should. We tried to hold retraining classes for these unemplyed workers at our local community college. Unfortunatley, it doesn't help to be retrained if there are no jobs locally to obtain. Also, a wage earner can't move away if they have no money to live on while seeking a job. There were thousands of such cases in the South. They were the direct victims of NAFTA.
Richard
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
No, you said what you meant. Just let it stand.
"Are you going to pay more to buy an inferior product just to support your own country(?)."
I wasn't aware that products made in the U.S. were "inferior". That's your opinion.
"NAFTA has nothing to do with slower sales."
Really? The unemployed workers who were a result of the NAFTA Treaty don't have the cash to buy books or much else for that matter. Thus, slower sales.
"It was a faulty banking system..."
Yes, and your RBC Bank was one of the major culprits. They tagged on mandatory flood insurance for the American consumer---even when the elevation and dried up creek beds were proven on a topographical map. I saw several vicitms of that selfish profit making scheme.
"...take responsibility."
America has a long history of taking responsibility, and adding yours to it. My only regret is that we always felt that we had to keep up the rest of the world. It is now apparent how grateful other countries are to us.
"George W's watch..."
I never said that George W. Bush wasn't part of the problem. He's been gone three years now. Obama is just now turning his attention to the unemployed---a little slow on the draw I think.
"We get blamed and exploited because of your government regulations."
Well, you're the one defending NAFTA, not me. You got what you asked for.
"...they don't really care where they are made."
How do you know? Did you ask them? I think that many Americans are disgusted with where all of the products are made today.
"It will put your country into the Stone Age."
The outsourcing is putting us in the poor house!
"Steve Jobs died last week."
Yes,and he was another American from whom you benefitted. For someone who appears to be blaming us for all of our mistakes, you've done pretty well by us. Your backside would be frozen if we hadn't allowed you to buy a second home in Florida.
"...but I have the right to make comments..."
I never said that you didn't.
"I may not have the right to vote..."
There is still some justice in this world.
Richard
No, the U.S. is not perfect...but it is the best by a wide margin.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
You're telling an American to wear a Canadian cap or pin?! Man, that takes nerve. I'll wear my American flag pin thank you. In my trips overseas, I have not found that Americans are badly treated. I find that others are particularly nice when you attempt to use their language in the course of conversation.
Richard
Richard
Have you tried the other approach? I hear that everyone speaks English if you yell loud enough......
Well, the comparison had to do with "what the meaning of is, is."
Oh well.
One man's dribble is another's flock, I guess.
The content of your post says differently. I am in complete agreement with all that you said. Good grief. I'm not some radical in the streets preaching the over throw of the American government. Even my TEA Party friends know that I am more moderate than many of them. I believe in following the framework of the U.S. Constitution, keeping government out of our private lives, and having ALL people to follow the laws of our great land. I also believe in the checks and balances among our three branches of government. What American wouldn't believe in those principles? I agree that some TEA Party participants are over the top. Most, however, believe as I do. I just wish that the media would see us in a better light. I will admit that I get upset when people attack America. It's a great country that has tried to help many others over the years. There should be some gratitude for that.
Richard
John, I am in complete agreement. I often get the feeling that Washington bypasses that amendment. The states can solve many of their own problems.
Richard
I disagree. If there is one person here who knows and speaks his own mind, it's Steve.
Richard
Right! I bet a dime to a dollar that there is more traffic heading South than heading North.
Richard
LOL! The only problem is that you're the one who gets arrested if you yell too loudly.
Richard
George W. has been gone for 3 years. The DEMOCRATS have been in charge of the US congress for 5 years. Only the media, who spent 8 years lambasting Bush for trivial things compared to Obama's doings, would think he was responsible.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was thinking you meant a lawn service and design for landscaping service. I was under the impression the chemicals the lawn services use requires some state control.
I had the wrong type of business in mind.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
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