this link that gives a detail sales breakdown by month and year for each model.
That's a really interesting link. I looked up a few different models and found sales were good for this year, even when I checked some Audi and BMW models.
Sometimes we go to a restaurant and it is packed, and I think, is there really a recession going on? This happens in Florida or on the way to and from Florida. I am sure 20 or 25% of the people are affected, but I think 70% or so are probably fine.
I also thought about this the other day...during the Great Depression people probably thought things would never change again. But, certain forces came to be and the world prospered once it was over.
I think we will hit that moment some day, maybe when we don't expect it. Someone will find a new energy source, or will find a cheap way to generate power, or find a way to run cars on a new fuel we don't know about. Or figure out how the banks can restructure.
Only optimistic people move forward. Pessimists can't move forward, they don't look forward to tomorrow.
Someone discovering a new energy source won't solve the foundational issues affecting world-wide economies, unfortunately, *driver! Right now, with natural gas being so very abundant (with known resources sufficient to meet demands for over 100 years), and the hydrogen fuel cell development in its infancy, finding yet another source of energy solves nothing in the next 50-100 years.
The basic problem is lack of consumer demand for manufactured goods. Demand will not increase/improve until people have sufficient amounts of disposal income to spend on goods, services and housing. That won't happen until/unless we have less than 5% unemployment. And that won't happen until demand increases. It is a vicious circle of problems, issues and scarce resources.
The private sector of the economies world-wide is the source of the solution. Government adding hundreds of thousands of jobs creates more problems because of the need for increased taxes to pay for those government jobs. Once the private sector begins to add millions, not thousands of jobs, we will begin to realize a recovery and hopefully a boom. But that won't happen until demand increases substantially.
New energy sources is a bi-product of economic expansion coupled with research and development.
. Demand will not increase/improve until people have sufficient amounts of disposal income to spend on goods, services and housing.
You make excellent points and I agree with them, based on my knowledge of the state of the world right now.
Just a few things to consider....random thoughts: Wouldn't people have said the same things during the Great Depression?
Big discoveries can come at any time. This "god particle" discovery could lead to new inventions.
The world wide webb was first created so scientists could collect knowledge...look at the way it has transformed the world.
Great discoveries quite often come suddenly and from out of nowhere.
There is a good chance we will continue in this state of recession for many more years (I am a realist too), but, things could also change very rapidly for the better. I am cautiously optimistic that things will get better at some point, probably when we don't expect it to happen.
Once the private sector begins to add millions, not thousands of jobs, we will begin to realize a recovery and hopefully a boom.
Who is to blame for the vexing unemployment problem in America? Not Bush and certainly not Obama. So who is the culprit? Technology! and "creative destruction."
The official unemployment rate is 8.2%, but that number is closer to 17%, yet corporate profits are the highest they’ve ever been in American history. And that trend will continue for a while because as corporate America adopt new technology (thanks to the internet revolution), their need for workers decrease, as productivity and profits increase.
The challenge for Obama (and State governments for that matter) is to move away from traditional jobs and shift the emphasis to a knowledge based economy. Unless this structural transformation is addressed, jobs will become even more scarce and the nation will deteriorate into civil unrest--occupy Wall Street--just the beginning. A doomsday scenario? Perhaps. However, it is a predicament that no longer can be ignored.
*bwia, your points are well taken. I cannot argue with your comments because they come from series of sound and glaring impetus's regarding high corporate profits and the reason for those high profits. Information technology is what has created these unprecedented profits during a horrendous recession. Public and private educational institutions have not properly nor adequately prepared our society for this phenomena.
But these high corporate profits have not resulted in high corporate dividends for their stockholders. These corporations are purchasing their own common stock and have been paying off debt like the populous is undertaking now. This reduces negative vulnerabilities and exposure to a negative business climate. The reason for this is the government's maintenance of next to zero interest rates which makes paying off debt the better choice rather than expanding manufacturing capacity in such a recessive economy.
Things will not improve unless and until government stops imposing untenable restrictions and taxes in the form of healthcare and the highest corporate taxation in the free world. Corporations would rather buy up outstanding common stock which frees corporate America to not have to pay absorbitant taxes on consolidation.
We need to reform our income tax structure so that EVERONE pays taxes to provide services and maintain armed forces instead of 49% of the population paying no tax! Do away with all deductions and lower rates so everyone contributes!
The challenge for Obama (and State governments for that matter) is to move away from traditional jobs and shift the emphasis to a knowledge based economy.
Your points are well taken and I agree, the world is changing in the way we work, and the kind of jobs we will have in the future.
Maybe we should pay every one a basic wage of $30K a year, and you can make more if you have the skills and desire to actually work. If you ever get caught breaking the law you lose your government payout and you fend for yourself........hopefully on an island in the Pacific.
Not sure about that, but a lot of those middle management jobs won't exist soon. We don't need sales people any more, we can order everything online.
Once again though, I am sure when the car came along every one thought it was terrible the buggy whip makers would be out of work. Ever seen a movie made in the 50s when the accounting department of large companies had about 100 people doing accounting on adding machines....or secretaries typing away. Those jobs disappeared and new ones replaced them. Maybe work will be more meaningful, but might need different skills.
I sure don't know, but I am just tossing out thoughts. But the world will be different in the near future. I am hoping we will be able to create meaningful interesting work.....but it is impossible to predict how things will unfold.
Right now I have our kitchen sink plugged up. We have poured down a giant bottle of Draino and some other product that smoles when it goes down the drain. Also tried One Second Plumber with the air pressure can. Nothing seems to work, plumber coming tomorrow. You would think in this day and age you could make a drainage pipe that you could easily take apart and clean out!
Ah, $600 does not compute. A full week of work, forty hours, at minimum wage is not close to $600.
Are we to feel sorry for the restaurant owner becuase he was forced to hire two "American boys" or are we to be upset the restaurant owner tried to hire "illegal immigrants?"
Of course, if we provided the "illegal immigrants" a convenient road to citizenship and raised the minimum wage to a livable level, perhaps the "illegal immigrants" would become "American boys."
"...raised the minimum wage to a livable level..."
As someone in the lower end of the 99% I like the sound of that but the sad truth is that you are only worth what the guy in line behind you is willing to work for. Supply and demand is a cruel master and when government starts trying to make things "fair" beyond a certain point, bad things happen. If you increase the cost of inputs to a business, prices rise and then cancel out your gains.
I also like driver's idea to give me a minimum of $30k a year. I could use the raise. :P I'll be waiting for my check, I know you can afford it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
You would think in this day and age you could make a drainage pipe that you could easily take apart and clean out!
They do. It’s called a P-trap here in the US but I’m sure you have the same thing in Canada. It’s very easy to take out. There are large nut that hold it in place; one on each end of the “trap”. Put a bucket under the trap before you put a wrench to the nuts because even if it is clear a small amount of water will come out. Look into the trap to see if it is clear. Also look at the pipe that connects to the top of the trap to be sure it is clear there but it is almost always open because the trap is what is trapping any large debris. I got into this type of stuff years ago because I didn’t want to be inconvenienced by waiting for a plumber nor did I want to pay him to do something simple.
It doesn’t have to be the P-trap, it could be the piping downstream of it, but that is easiest and first place I’d start my wrench work. We have a couple of plumber guys in here that can scare the BMW out of you with what you have to do if the P-trap is not the problem.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But with the economy the way it is, the days could become night!!!
People thought the Great Depression was the end of the world. My Uncle told me many soldiers he knew during WWII thought that war would be the end of the world. I remember when growing up the Russians would take over and people were building bomb shelters. The Cold War was a dangerous time, people thought we were doomed.
Hopefully this is just a normal business cycle, and things will improve in the not too distant future. Americans don't give up fighting for a better future! (I mean North Americans).
It’s called a P-trap here in the US but I’m sure you have the same thing in Canada.
Interesting! We had this problem about 2 years ago. The thief guy who fixed it said that the drainage pipe was unusually long, and not sloped enough, so the solid stuff doesn't flow as well as it should. I have thought about putting Drano stuff down the drain once a week, whether it needs it or not. So far we have used a large bottle of a powerful declogger called Lightening (hardware store guy said this would fix it for sure), one can of Drano, and about 5 shots of One Second Plumber.
Of course, if we provided the "illegal immigrants" a convenient road to citizenship and raised the minimum wage to a livable level, perhaps the "illegal immigrants" would become "American boys."
Why on earth should we reward a person/s for doing something ILLEGAL? This almost sounds like the government mandated school system approach of “no child left behind”.
We know what that approach has done to our schools. The retired school system administrators that we have in here can surely tell it better than I can.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You and I are sharing a similar problem today. Our four commodes and the kitchen sink are at overflow levels. Thank goodness a home warranty package came with the purchase of this old house. The plumber is due here within 24 hours. At first, they said that it would be Monday before they could get here. The plumber told me to call the home warranty company back and have them update us to "emergency status". I did and it worked. As for pouring these commercial products down the drains, i have plumbers to tell me not to do that. They say that these products usually don't work and that they can cause more damage than positive results. I wish you good fortune on getting your problem fixed.
In a way, this relates to the current discussion on the economy. Whether you have a Great Depression like the 1930's or a bad recession like we have recently experienced, there are always people with money. In recent weeks, my carpenter, electrician, roofer, and plumber have all said that they have more work than they can reasonably do. Someone is paying these tradesmen; they aren't working for free. Based on this and the fact that homes are beginnking to sell again, I'm optimistic that things are beginning to improve. It will take time, but things will gradually get better.
The situation will get better because Americans will eventually retool themselves; there will be less government intervention in our lives; and legislation will force the financial institutions to correct themselves. i remain hopeful.
You mentioned the Great Depression as compared to today's situation. I don't think that one can really compare the two because of the difference in times. There was very little technology in the 1930's as compared to today. Recovery was different because the skilled and hands-on jobs were still there and needed in the 1930's. Mike mentioned that our public and private educational institutions have not prepared the new workforce. He is so right. Education in the 1930's was pretty basic---reading. writing, and math. If you didn't go to school or, even if you graduated at 11th grade (no 12th grade then), you could still get a good job working with your hands vs. your brain. This is no longer true. Students must now learn critical thinking skills, decision making skills, and become more technology oriented. These factors are even more complicated by the absence of interest from parents in the education of their children---both academic and morally. New entitlements are an increasing problem that we see in the rearing of children. A definite correction is needed in this area.
Please note that I am not classifying all parents and children into this "spoiled" category. Many parents do care and their children are fine young citizens. My point is that there is a large segment of the population that is hurting themselves in their practices and attitudes.
One reason that we moved back home was that I was offered a job to do leadership training at the college for mid-management and to do team work training for lower level employees. It is all part of trying to retool industry and business to produce more skilled workers who can communicate, get along with employers, and get along with each other. I'm happy about the opportunity and optimistic that things can be made better and more productive.
You know my feelings on "No Child Left Behind". We've had this discussion before. First, the government (both federal and state) provided no funding for the program. Second, the goals were very unrealistic (all children will be proficient in reading and math by 2014). Third, teachers and testing coordinators manipulated testing procedures and scoring practices out of fear for their jobs---and some school administrators looked the other way. Fourth, parents never really bought into the program or even understood it.
Since the 1960's, every president and governor in America has felt the need to institute a "savior" program for education. None of them have worked up to now. The sad part is that we wasted so much time and energy at the local levels trying to make the damn things produce results. Even sadder is the fact that the poor children were the "experimental pigs" during the years of those "new and better" programs. Naturally, the government has NEVER asked the teachers or administrators for their advice on what might work or not work.
I know that I am old school, but here is my bottom line: Teach children how to read, write, and do math. From there, teach them physical education plus music and art appreciation. Those things build the body and teach them how to think critically. Intergrate all of this with skills and knowledge based on student interests and aptitudes. Do all of this in an environment that speaks to discipline, morals, and respect for others. This is not rocket science, but it needs to be a return to values and a return to allowing good teachers and administrators to discipline children and make local decisions. As for incompetent teachers and administrators, the power to fire and dismiss needs to be returned without the constant threat of being sued. As a former personnel director for a large school system (43 schools), I grew very tired of being told to "transfer" an incompetent teacher or administrator to another school. This action just made the poison spread. The school system attitude was that "We will do what it takes to avoid litigation". That prevailing attitude is killing the schools in this country.
The thief guy who fixed it said that the drainage pipe was unusually long, and not sloped enough, so the solid stuff doesn't flow as well as it should.
I'll ask the plumber about a P-trap though.
If it is truly a drain line that is not sloped enough and it isn’t the P-trap and you will have to live with this because you don’t want the expense of digging up and re-sloping the drain line. I had this with the second house we had. I called a plumber because I knew my problem was waaay down the drain line and the baby snake I was using didn’t do the trick for me. The guy said, “oh, I’ve been wondering when I was going to get another call about this because this house was built with a minimal slope in the line. I see you are now the new owners. I’ve been out here about every other year to clean this thing out for about 10 years now”. It turns out the problem was not from the bathroom waste but was coming from greasy food waste thrown down the drain in the kitchen. While the line probably had a minimal slope, what we had was the residual from the previous owner (we were there only 6 months when we had this problem) and once it was cleaned out we never had another problem. Mrs. j knows better than to throw greasy stuff down the disposal.
Interestingly, when we had our house built in SC I noticed that the drain line from the house to the city sewer system in the back of the house was not sloped enough and I told my builder about this before the trench was back filled. He thought I was right and said he would have the plumber slope it more. The plumber gave him some BS about it being OK and to code so I had to go along with that but I said I wanted be around when the line was being inspected by the city inspector before it was back filled. The builder gave me a call the day before the inspection and I was there.
The inspector took one look at the slope and said, “this line has to be re-sloped”. He then proceeds to ask the plumber why he did it like he did because there was nothing whatsoever limiting him from giving the line more slope. He then answered his own question by saying, “I guess you wanted to cheat your way through this by not digging a deeper trench. Now do it right”. As he walked away he said “and don’t call me back here until it’s done right. I understand you were questioned about this and you said it was OK. Well, it’s not OK and you know it”. Most cities blow off these kinds of inspections but this town where I lived was a stickler for this stuff. You should have seen the list of the picky stuff they came up with before the builder was granted an “occupancy permit” so that the house could be turned over to me.
Sometimes these inspections work in your favor.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
>from greasy food waste thrown down the drain in the kitchen.
One helpful thing to do would be to run hot water down the drain for a period of several minutes. Fill the sink with hot, hot water and Dawn detergent strong, and then pull the plug to release the detergent and hot water to try to emulsify some of the oily goop. Follow with more hot, hot water running and then run cold water down to solidify the emulsified suspended greasy stuff and carry it on down the line.
Then I would put in the enzymes they sell to try to digest the grease in the line. Put it in and leave the line unused for hours or a day, such as when leaving.
I do my best not to put cooking grease down the drain if I can avoid it. I try and let it cool and pour it into some sort of container im throwing away.
I'm also very picky about the garage disposal after potato skins clogged my line. Luckily the clog was accessible in the house and I didnt have to call the plumber.
I should send your thoughts to the school board members and educators in my school district. On second thought I won’t send it to one of the senior school board members. You see, I worked with this guy years ago and he is now retired. They are still trying to clean up some of his screw ups around here and he’s been gone about 12 years now.
This action just made the poison spread. The school system attitude was that "We will do what it takes to avoid litigation".
I’m pretty sure they know the answer but the plaintiffs seem to have better lawyers AND the law is on their side. That’s an overwhelming uphill battle.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was a teacher from 1968-1976, and then a public school principal from 1977-1990. During that time, I worked in a district that refused to promote students from one grade to another unless they had mastered 80% of the curriculum/skills of the previous grade. If they had not mastered 80%, they had to attend a summer school program that zeroed in on their deficiencies. If, at the end of that summer program geared especially to that individual student, he/she had not mastered 80% of the math, reading and language objecties/curriculum, they were "retained" in that same grade. They would not be promoted to the next higher grade level.
When a student was recommended for "retention", we did a complete Case Study Evaluation on that student including a complete psychological (WISC-R) to measure intelligence and identify any possible learning disabilities, a complete social worker evaluation of the student and family, achievement and diagnositis testing for knowledge deficiencies, etc. Then, an IEP (Individualized Eduational Program) was developed and routinely monitored during the entire year the student is retained. Monthly staff meetings were held for each of those students to discuss progress or lack of progress and to come up with alternative plans if goals were not being achieved.
Without going into any more detail which would just bore most of you, we had literally placed a GATE at the end of each school year through which a student could pass to the next grade if 80% mastery had occurred. And, in addition, we had instituted all possible assisting programs to help the student succeed during the following year if he/she had not succeeded the year before.
Students had to pass inventory tests at the end of each quarter to make sure the teacher had taught what was supposed to have been taught and the student had learned "most" of what he/she was supposed to have learned. Tests were administered by proctors, not by teachers, to make sure they were not cheating on the scoring or administering of those tests. We had an independent testing administration service compile all the results and date and then issued a "report card" to the school board each quarter as to their findings. Thus, administrators, teachers and students were all held accountable.
In order to become an administrator in our district, you had to have a minimum of a 132 IQ and at least one advanced degree. Prospective principals also had to pass achievement tests in math, science, Language Arts and reading comprehension at the 90th percentile or higher. Then, and only then, would they qualify to be interviewed by school board memebers, district superintendent and asst. superintendents, and a group of parents where the vacancy for the principalship was.
In my school, when preliminary testing showed a deficiency in 2nd grade reading scores, I had to present a plan to the district on how I was going to solve this problem. I reorganized the entire grade level and place my best teacher in with the lowest achieving students and made sure they were taught nothing but reading, writing and 'rithmetic for 5 straight months. They were not exposed to science or social studies curriculum with the approval of each of the student's parents. At the end of the 5 month period, those students showed an average gain of 1 year in reading and language skills, and only in 1/2 of a school year.
I could go on and on, but I will end this expose by stating that there are ways and means to overcome deficits in learning - one just has to develop and implement a specialized program of instruction with the approval of the school board and the parents!!!
If we ran all public schools in our country like we ran our school district back in teh 70's and 80's, we wouldn't have the problems we have today with children being socially promoted for their age, not their academic achievements.
Richard, hope you have some feedback regarding the above, as I hope jmonroe also has!
I sent your post to my daughter-in-law, who's an administrator at a large school district here in the Phoenix area (Kyrene, for fellow desert rats). I've told you about her in the past, as she was able to get rid of a non-performing teacher after going through all the hoops for months and months. I think you and she share opinions on much of what you wrote, but I'll find out for sure shortly.
Mike, you worked in an exceptional school district and, naturally, you were an exceptional school administrator. Your career and mine are vastly different because i worked in the Deep South in a very poor rural area. First, our 43 schools were spread out over the largest county geographically in North Carolina. My office from the most distant school was a good 50 minute drive. Second, we are the only quad-racial county in North Carolina---one fourth Native American, one fourth Hispanic, one fourth Black, and one fourth White. Attracting outside talent was a major problem for two reasons: Poverty and Nepotism. The salaries are lower than other areas across the country and our locals are more concerned with hiring local and racially balanced than hiring who the children need. As for an IQ of at least 132, I know of many of our teachers and administrators who don't reach 100. They graduated from lower standard colleges and universities, and took the NTE (now Praxis) exam numerous times until they reached the minimum scores.
Try training these educators on the merits of an IEP for students, ETT (Effective Teacher Training Program), proper testing and scoring practices, etc. There were only two of us out of 3,000 employees certified to teach the ETT program. We always ranked near the bottom on state and federal testing results. In defense of the students, many succeeded in spite of the quality of education here. Unfortunately, the majority just stay here and recycle themselves into the next generation of unsuccessful students.
In spite of it all, I stayed when other offers came my way. Not to be egotistical, but these children needed the few of us who cared and who wanted to do what was best for children. As a personnel director, I hired quite a bit of talent from the Northeast. Locals complained that I was wasting my time because the recruits didn't stay here but a year or two. My reasoning was that at least the children had a good teacher for a couple of years. It beat the hell out of "cousin Sue" or "nephew Charlie" who was hired regardless of the fact that they were the worst instructor on the planet. As for administrators, forget them. I was NEVER allowed to recruit a principal or assistant principal beyond the county borders. Those positions were saved for the sorry [non-permissible content removed] teachers who managed to go to an ineffective graduate school and get an MA in education.
I won't continue, but you get the picture. I will make reference to one of your other points. You used your best teachers to work with the lowest student levels. I understand why you did that. My principals used to do that to me as a teacher. Though it may be a compliment, it doesn't reward the teacher and it doesn't make teaching easy at all. After years of doing that, I finally took AP (Advanced Placement) and Honors training just to have some classes for enjoyment and to stimulate my brain a little. Don't get me wrong. I loved all of my children, and I would have done the same as you. I had a wonderful 40 year career and I wouldn't change a thing. In fact, I'm looking forward to working two days a week beginning next month.
I'm also very picky about the garage disposal after potato skins clogged my line. Luckily the clog was accessible in the house and I didnt have to call the plumber.
When we were looking at the second house we ended up buying, I saw a 1/2 HP Kitchenaid disposal that was put in after the house was build. I could see the switch under the sink cabinet and it had a reversing feature. When I asked the woman how she liked it she said, “I like it but it won’t chop up potato skins so I don’t do that anymore”. The very first disposal I installed in our first house had the same problem. When I got tired of dropping the P-trap and cleaning out the line in the wall where it was backing up I decided it was time for a more powerful disposal. I went to Sears and got a 3/4 HP disposal and told Mrs. j to give that a try. She said, “do you think this one will work better”? I told her we’d never know until she tried it. That did it so I told her to not worry about it anymore.
When we bought our second house I took the disposal from out first house and put it in the second house and gave the Kitchenaid to a young fellow worker. The first unit that I put in the first house was in the attic so I was going to reinstall it and I told the realtor what I was going to do. She said, as long as I wasn’t making a change after the house was listed that was not a problem. Then she says, “would you mind telling me again what brand you are taking with you because I have that potato skin problem too”. After that I have never owned a disposal other than a Kenmore.
When we had the house built in SC I was given an allowance for a disposal along with all the other plumbing stuff at the plumbing supply where my builder dealt. When I went to pick out all the faucet stuff the guy said, before I left, I should pick out a disposal and he was about to show me what he had. I said, “I’m going to get that myself at Sears”. I thought he was going to wet his pants from laughing and he said “what we carry, In-Sink-Erator, is a lot better than what you’ll find at Sears”. I said, “maybe so but I’m satisfied with Kenmore. Anyway, it’s not like I haven’t spent enough in here. I’m way over my plumbing allowance as it is already and I see your unit is more than the Kenmore”. When we moved back to the Burgh and finally bought a house in ‘98 I did it again with a Kenmore. Then I did it still again with another Kenmore (1 HP) when we did the kitchen redo in January 2010. Mrs. j has never clogged a drain with potato peels since that first house. We even throw banana skins down that thing and that is supposed to be a no-no with disposals. I have cautioned her about not throwing corn husks down that thing because everything has its limit and I’m sure that would do it in.
I told the tale about Mrs. j chopping up a juice glass and all that was left was some white sand and a few glass chips in the disposal when I took it out after hearing all the noise it made. I was sure that thing was going to be a goner within a few months. We were in the house about 4 months when this happened in ’98. I gave that disposal to my niece when hers quit in early 2010 not too long after the kitchen redo and that thing is still chopping away today.
FWIW, the Kenmore is probably built by In-Sink-Erator but I have to believe it’s built to better specs.
I’m sure there must be a better brand of disposals out there somewhere but it’s probably a commercial unit.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well our guy was supposed to be here at 10:30. We called every half hour and every time we called he said he would be here in a half hour. Finally arrived at 1:30. Not off to a good start. But, it is exactly like you said, it means these guys are busy, and they are sure making money......lots of it because my bill will be $1000.
I'll explain in my answer to Monroe.
I am in complete agreement that the revolution in work and jobs makes todays situation very unique. The depression in the 30s is similar only in that people couln't see that it would end....and that is the feeling people can have now. When you are in a recession you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, and you don't think it will ever end.
Education is another matter. How do you train people for careers when most of the jobs people think they want will radically change or nor exist when they graduate? It sounds like it would be an exciting future, but I am glad I came up in the old system.
If it is truly a drain line that is not sloped enough and it isn’t the P-trap and you will have to live with this because you don’t want the expense of digging up and re-sloping the drain line
Briefly, here's what they found out. The pipe that drains from the kitchen to the main line is about 20 to 25 feet long and is only 1 1/2 inch diameter. It is made of flexible plastic and is warped, and isn't on a big enough slope. If he fixes the clog it will just happen again.
He will replace the 25 ft long pipe with a 2 inch diameter one. This one won't be warped like the other one is and he is certain this will fix the problem.
We have about 20 people coming for lunch on Sunday so I don't have time to fool around. Unfortunately, it will cost $1000. Last time it was $400 for a fix that lasted about 18 months, so if this is the end of the problem than we will just bite the bullet and at least it is done....might have to serve the guests hot dogs instead of better food though! :sick:
The house is 6 years old this month, and I would say it was a flaw the builder missed. I asked the plumber and he said probably the part time crew worked on that and didn't know the problems this would cause.
I am sure a handy person could fix this for cost of materials 25 ft of 2 inch diameter pipe, and 2 or 3 hours of time....maybe $300.
Richard, hope you have some feedback regarding the above, as I hope jmonroe also has!
As ‘richard’ said you worked in an “exceptional school district”.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making lite of what you accomplished because I can see where you did some very exceptional things that only a very good school administrator would do but all bets are off when you have the support of the district. Too bad all districts aren’t like the one you worked for and had someone like you steering the ship.
The school district where I live now is the same district that taught my two sons and where I spent 9 th through 12 th grade myself. When Son #2, who is three years younger than his older brother, got to talking to his older brother when he was a senior in high school, he said he could see a big difference in how things were being done than they were when he was a freshman and his older brother was a senior. I knew then and there that this once “one of the top school districts in the State of PA” was on a greasy fast slope downward and this was in ‘90.
It seems like both you and ‘richard’ poured your hearts and soul into your work but you had much more support.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Briefly, here's what they found out. The pipe that drains from the kitchen to the main line is about 20 to 25 feet long and is only 1 1/2 inch diameter. It is made of flexible plastic and is warped, and isn't on a big enough slope. If he fixes the clog it will just happen again.
He will replace the 25 ft long pipe with a 2 inch diameter one. This one won't be warped like the other one is and he is certain this will fix the problem.
I never heard of a main drain line being only 1 1/2 inches here in the states. I have an inch and a half line in my house from all sinks which then goes into a 4 inch line that then goes on to the street as a 4 inch line. If I were paying to have a line redone I’d want a line from the house to the street that was the same size as the hub connection at the street trunk line and I’d want a solid plastic line not a new flexible line of any size other than a small transition piece and then only if that were absolutely necessary.
Also like they did when I lived in SC, I’d want an inspection of the work before it was back filled. If you hear the cry of the plumber like, “oh gee mister, that will only delay me fixing your problem”, I’d be looking for another plumber.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I never heard of a main drain line being only 1 1/2 inches here in the states.
The mainline could be 4 in though it looks like about 3" to me.
He is done and they showed me how the 1 1/2 " pipe was full of white powder stuck to the sides, and it weighed a lot, and that's what made it arch down...so the water had to rise back up.
He said he has been called a lot of times to new houses because of this very problem. They use a small pipe that goes for a distance and it gets plugged up.
He said commercial drain cleaning liquids are only good if the pipe is still working. The new biological ones will actually eat there way through the build up. He suggest using one every few months.
But he tested it and I can see it is running fine now....$1000 later. One hour to get the pipe, which is probably worth $100 max, he did some welding, and he did a very neat job, but he worked for 2 hours. He had a kid helping him so they made after buying the pipe, about $300 an hour, $25 an hour for the kid and $275 for him. And some people think it is a tough economy!
J, I actually have a 3/4 HP Kenmore. It is only a little over a year old. The potato thing I believe to be user error, too much too fast and not enough water. Live and learn.
It is a tough economy. It’s guys like you and I that pay the freight when something needs fixed. And on top of that they have a good union. They aren’t forced by the government to fix stuff just because people don’t have the money to pay their repair bills.
You think there ought to be a law about that? If there is we’ll pay a lot more for their work than we do now.
Look at it like this, you can have that party now and not miss a minute of your time with your guests when Mrs. driver screams “oh no, look what happened, again”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just bought a replacement InSinkeRator 4 weeks ago to replace my many years old InSinkErator 444 model that was 3/4 horsepower. This one is the Evolution series and it's 3/4 horsepower at about $209 Lowes. I can't believe how quiet it is compared to the previous generation. Even while munching garbage, it's quiet with just water flowing in and no cap over the opening.
There were two higher line models above it that were supposed to be even quieter. Things have changed.
when we remodelled, I didn't even want to put our disposal back on, but we had it so my wife insisted. And this is a newer replacement, since out old one died a few years ago.
I would never put anything big or chunky down there. Just put it in the garbage instead. Why does the sewer treatment plant need my kitchen garbage too? Besides, if it never goes down, it can't clog the pipe! rarely some small stuff goes down, then we run it.
I did find a neat gizmo at HD (Drove my car there to buy it!!!) It is a drain stopper that has slots on the edge to let water and little stuff down, but blocks anything big, but you can leave it in when running the disposal. Solid plastic with a rubber blade. Very handy since it keeps silverware, etc. from going down (or potato peels), but you never have to take it out to let water flow.
My wife saves all the cooking grease and mixes it with flour, brown sugar and raisins to make "bird cakes" to attract the birds in winter. They are delicious as I found out when the first time she made them I accidentally ate one. :surprise:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
There are greases and fats from bits of meats and other foods along with the materials rinse from plates that accummulate. Even fats that are suspended in dishwashing water fall out of suspension as they run down the pipe and cool.
Look at it like this, you can have that party now and not miss a minute of your time with your guests when Mrs. driver screams “oh no, look what happened, again”.
I agree, there will be about 20 people for lunch and it is very difficult to do anything without a kitchen sink running properly. Just not being able to operate the dishwasher is enough to cause someone to have a nervous breakdown, let alone not being able to wash fruit and vegetables.
So, using the Driver Method of cost sharing, $1000 is like $10 a week for 2 years! We'll just have to cut back on something to stay within budget...I am feeling better already.
But, I have another rule of finance. Since we saved $16000 buying the Audi instead of a BMW that money will go somewhere else now, something about what the Lord giveth, he taketh away
But, I have another rule of finance. Since we saved $16000 buying the Audi instead of a BMW that money will go somewhere else now, something about what the Lord giveth, he taketh away
You're right and another way to look at this is that you can fix 15 more pipes that have the wrong slope. OK 13...you'll have to upgrade your electrical service before you know it. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
NYC, I know you will appreciate this. In the last week or so, I helped my next door neighbor and friend change a headlight bulb in their BMW and fill up the wife's bike tires. She hadn't ridden it in a while. Yesterday, my neighbor asked me if I wanted to go the Yanks/Sox game tomorrow. I think we are going to be 3 or so rows behind home plate. :shades:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Richard...my immigrant Father, whose entrance into the U.S. took some stump pulling, told me...."hard work, read well, write well, speak well....there's nothing you can't achieve in this country."
Please note that I am not classifying all parents and children into this "spoiled" category. Many parents do care and their children are fine young citizens. My point is that there is a large segment of the population that is hurting themselves in their practices and attitudes.
I agree 100%. I see it all the time in my job; no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Just one example: You would not believe how many people apply for a court appointed attorney yet they own a 2010-2012 car worth over $20,000. Then they complain that they can't afford an attorney and still make their car payments. While dabbing at my eyes with a tissue I explain that I will not use taxpayer dollars to subsidize their standard of living...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
no one wants to take responsibility for their actions
75% of the people on Judge Judy don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
I once saw a JJ program where a guy was hitting a golf ball out on the street. The golf ball sailed through the air and broke the windshield of a car being driven down the street. The guy hitting the golf ball said it wasn't his fault because if the car had been going faster or slower the ball would not have struck the car!
Once a young girl came around a corner in the winter time and her car slid across someone's lawn and took out their garden and bushes. Of course it wasn't her fault, it was the fault of the ice on the road!
I am amazed that there are so many people who just don't take responsibility for their actions.
Comments
That's a really interesting link. I looked up a few different models and found sales were good for this year, even when I checked some Audi and BMW models.
Sometimes we go to a restaurant and it is packed, and I think, is there really a recession going on? This happens in Florida or on the way to and from Florida. I am sure 20 or 25% of the people are affected, but I think 70% or so are probably fine.
I also thought about this the other day...during the Great Depression people probably thought things would never change again. But, certain forces came to be and the world prospered once it was over.
I think we will hit that moment some day, maybe when we don't expect it. Someone will find a new energy source, or will find a cheap way to generate power, or find a way to run cars on a new fuel we don't know about. Or figure out how the banks can restructure.
Only optimistic people move forward. Pessimists can't move forward, they don't look forward to tomorrow.
Always look at the glass as being half full!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Someone discovering a new energy source won't solve the foundational issues affecting world-wide economies, unfortunately, *driver! Right now, with natural gas being so very abundant (with known resources sufficient to meet demands for over 100 years), and the hydrogen fuel cell development in its infancy, finding yet another source of energy solves nothing in the next 50-100 years.
The basic problem is lack of consumer demand for manufactured goods. Demand will not increase/improve until people have sufficient amounts of disposal income to spend on goods, services and housing. That won't happen until/unless we have less than 5% unemployment. And that won't happen until demand increases. It is a vicious circle of problems, issues and scarce resources.
The private sector of the economies world-wide is the source of the solution. Government adding hundreds of thousands of jobs creates more problems because of the need for increased taxes to pay for those government jobs. Once the private sector begins to add millions, not thousands of jobs, we will begin to realize a recovery and hopefully a boom. But that won't happen until demand increases substantially.
New energy sources is a bi-product of economic expansion coupled with research and development.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You make excellent points and I agree with them, based on my knowledge of the state of the world right now.
Just a few things to consider....random thoughts:
Wouldn't people have said the same things during the Great Depression?
Big discoveries can come at any time. This "god particle" discovery could lead to new inventions.
The world wide webb was first created so scientists could collect knowledge...look at the way it has transformed the world.
Great discoveries quite often come suddenly and from out of nowhere.
There is a good chance we will continue in this state of recession for many more years (I am a realist too), but, things could also change very rapidly for the better. I am cautiously optimistic that things will get better at some point, probably when we don't expect it to happen.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Who is to blame for the vexing unemployment problem in America? Not Bush and certainly not Obama. So who is the culprit? Technology! and "creative destruction."
The official unemployment rate is 8.2%, but that number is closer to 17%, yet corporate profits are the highest they’ve ever been in American history. And that trend will continue for a while because as corporate America adopt new technology (thanks to the internet revolution), their need for workers decrease, as productivity and profits increase.
The challenge for Obama (and State governments for that matter) is to move away from traditional jobs and shift the emphasis to a knowledge based economy. Unless this structural transformation is addressed, jobs will become even more scarce and the nation will deteriorate into civil unrest--occupy Wall Street--just the beginning. A doomsday scenario? Perhaps. However, it is a predicament that no longer can be ignored.
*bwia, your points are well taken. I cannot argue with your comments because they come from series of sound and glaring impetus's regarding high corporate profits and the reason for those high profits. Information technology is what has created these unprecedented profits during a horrendous recession. Public and private educational institutions have not properly nor adequately prepared our society for this phenomena.
But these high corporate profits have not resulted in high corporate dividends for their stockholders. These corporations are purchasing their own common stock and have been paying off debt like the populous is undertaking now. This reduces negative vulnerabilities and exposure to a negative business climate. The reason for this is the government's maintenance of next to zero interest rates which makes paying off debt the better choice rather than expanding manufacturing capacity in such a recessive economy.
Things will not improve unless and until government stops imposing untenable restrictions and taxes in the form of healthcare and the highest corporate taxation in the free world. Corporations would rather buy up outstanding common stock which frees corporate America to not have to pay absorbitant taxes on consolidation.
We need to reform our income tax structure so that EVERONE pays taxes to provide services and maintain armed forces instead of 49% of the population paying no tax! Do away with all deductions and lower rates so everyone contributes!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Your points are well taken and I agree, the world is changing in the way we work, and the kind of jobs we will have in the future.
Maybe we should pay every one a basic wage of $30K a year, and you can make more if you have the skills and desire to actually work. If you ever get caught breaking the law you lose your government payout and you fend for yourself........hopefully on an island in the Pacific.
Not sure about that, but a lot of those middle management jobs won't exist soon. We don't need sales people any more, we can order everything online.
Once again though, I am sure when the car came along every one thought it was terrible the buggy whip makers would be out of work. Ever seen a movie made in the 50s when the accounting department of large companies had about 100 people doing accounting on adding machines....or secretaries typing away. Those jobs disappeared and new ones replaced them. Maybe work will be more meaningful, but might need different skills.
I sure don't know, but I am just tossing out thoughts. But the world will be different in the near future. I am hoping we will be able to create meaningful interesting work.....but it is impossible to predict how things will unfold.
Right now I have our kitchen sink plugged up. We have poured down a giant bottle of Draino and some other product that smoles when it goes down the drain. Also tried One Second Plumber with the air pressure can.
Nothing seems to work, plumber coming tomorrow. You would think in this day and age you could make a drainage pipe that you could easily take apart and clean out!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Insightful, NY! But with the economy the way it is, the days could become night!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Perfect!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Are we to feel sorry for the restaurant owner becuase he was forced to hire two "American boys" or are we to be upset the restaurant owner tried to hire "illegal immigrants?"
Of course, if we provided the "illegal immigrants" a convenient road to citizenship and raised the minimum wage to a livable level, perhaps the "illegal immigrants" would become "American boys."
As someone in the lower end of the 99% I like the sound of that but the sad truth is that you are only worth what the guy in line behind you is willing to work for. Supply and demand is a cruel master and when government starts trying to make things "fair" beyond a certain point, bad things happen. If you increase the cost of inputs to a business, prices rise and then cancel out your gains.
I also like driver's idea to give me a minimum of $30k a year. I could use the raise. :P I'll be waiting for my check, I know you can afford it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
They do. It’s called a P-trap here in the US but I’m sure you have the same thing in Canada. It’s very easy to take out. There are large nut that hold it in place; one on each end of the “trap”. Put a bucket under the trap before you put a wrench to the nuts because even if it is clear a small amount of water will come out. Look into the trap to see if it is clear. Also look at the pipe that connects to the top of the trap to be sure it is clear there but it is almost always open because the trap is what is trapping any large debris. I got into this type of stuff years ago because I didn’t want to be inconvenienced by waiting for a plumber nor did I want to pay him to do something simple.
It doesn’t have to be the P-trap, it could be the piping downstream of it, but that is easiest and first place I’d start my wrench work. We have a couple of plumber guys in here that can scare the BMW out of you with what you have to do if the P-trap is not the problem.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
People thought the Great Depression was the end of the world.
My Uncle told me many soldiers he knew during WWII thought that war would be the end of the world.
I remember when growing up the Russians would take over and people were building bomb shelters.
The Cold War was a dangerous time, people thought we were doomed.
Hopefully this is just a normal business cycle, and things will improve in the not too distant future. Americans don't give up fighting for a better future!
(I mean North Americans).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Interesting! We had this problem about 2 years ago. The
thiefguy who fixed it said that the drainage pipe was unusually long, and not sloped enough, so the solid stuff doesn't flow as well as it should. I have thought about putting Drano stuff down the drain once a week, whether it needs it or not. So far we have used a large bottle of a powerful declogger called Lightening (hardware store guy said this would fix it for sure), one can of Drano, and about 5 shots of One Second Plumber.I'll ask the plumber about a P-trap though.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Why on earth should we reward a person/s for doing something ILLEGAL?
This almost sounds like the government mandated school system approach of “no child left behind”.
We know what that approach has done to our schools. The retired school system administrators that we have in here can surely tell it better than I can.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So they and their friends will vote for the party pretending to care about them and give them something including OPM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yea, verily.
The Republicans want cheap labor and the Democrats want voters (but not ones whose identities can be verified via picture I.D. at the polls).
I doubt this will ever get fixed. The 1986 amnesty certainly didn't do it.
In a way, this relates to the current discussion on the economy. Whether you have a Great Depression like the 1930's or a bad recession like we have recently experienced, there are always people with money. In recent weeks, my carpenter, electrician, roofer, and plumber have all said that they have more work than they can reasonably do. Someone is paying these tradesmen; they aren't working for free. Based on this and the fact that homes are beginnking to sell again, I'm optimistic that things are beginning to improve. It will take time, but things will gradually get better.
The situation will get better because Americans will eventually retool themselves; there will be less government intervention in our lives; and legislation will force the financial institutions to correct themselves. i remain hopeful.
You mentioned the Great Depression as compared to today's situation. I don't think that one can really compare the two because of the difference in times. There was very little technology in the 1930's as compared to today. Recovery was different because the skilled and hands-on jobs were still there and needed in the 1930's. Mike mentioned that our public and private educational institutions have not prepared the new workforce. He is so right. Education in the 1930's was pretty basic---reading. writing, and math. If you didn't go to school or, even if you graduated at 11th grade (no 12th grade then), you could still get a good job working with your hands vs. your brain. This is no longer true. Students must now learn critical thinking skills, decision making skills, and become more technology oriented. These factors are even more complicated by the absence of interest from parents in the education of their children---both academic and morally. New entitlements are an increasing problem that we see in the rearing of children. A definite correction is needed in this area.
Please note that I am not classifying all parents and children into this "spoiled" category. Many parents do care and their children are fine young citizens. My point is that there is a large segment of the population that is hurting themselves in their practices and attitudes.
One reason that we moved back home was that I was offered a job to do leadership training at the college for mid-management and to do team work training for lower level employees. It is all part of trying to retool industry and business to produce more skilled workers who can communicate, get along with employers, and get along with each other. I'm happy about the opportunity and optimistic that things can be made better and more productive.
Richard
You know my feelings on "No Child Left Behind". We've had this discussion before. First, the government (both federal and state) provided no funding for the program. Second, the goals were very unrealistic (all children will be proficient in reading and math by 2014). Third, teachers and testing coordinators manipulated testing procedures and scoring practices out of fear for their jobs---and some school administrators looked the other way. Fourth, parents never really bought into the program or even understood it.
Since the 1960's, every president and governor in America has felt the need to institute a "savior" program for education. None of them have worked up to now. The sad part is that we wasted so much time and energy at the local levels trying to make the damn things produce results. Even sadder is the fact that the poor children were the "experimental pigs" during the years of those "new and better" programs. Naturally, the government has NEVER asked the teachers or administrators for their advice on what might work or not work.
I know that I am old school, but here is my bottom line: Teach children how to read, write, and do math. From there, teach them physical education plus music and art appreciation. Those things build the body and teach them how to think critically. Intergrate all of this with skills and knowledge based on student interests and aptitudes. Do all of this in an environment that speaks to discipline, morals, and respect for others. This is not rocket science, but it needs to be a return to values and a return to allowing good teachers and administrators to discipline children and make local decisions. As for incompetent teachers and administrators, the power to fire and dismiss needs to be returned without the constant threat of being sued. As a former personnel director for a large school system (43 schools), I grew very tired of being told to "transfer" an incompetent teacher or administrator to another school. This action just made the poison spread. The school system attitude was that "We will do what it takes to avoid litigation". That prevailing attitude is killing the schools in this country.
End of rant!
Richard
I'll ask the plumber about a P-trap though.
If it is truly a drain line that is not sloped enough and it isn’t the P-trap and you will have to live with this because you don’t want the expense of digging up and re-sloping the drain line. I had this with the second house we had. I called a plumber because I knew my problem was waaay down the drain line and the baby snake I was using didn’t do the trick for me. The guy said, “oh, I’ve been wondering when I was going to get another call about this because this house was built with a minimal slope in the line. I see you are now the new owners. I’ve been out here about every other year to clean this thing out for about 10 years now”. It turns out the problem was not from the bathroom waste but was coming from greasy food waste thrown down the drain in the kitchen. While the line probably had a minimal slope, what we had was the residual from the previous owner (we were there only 6 months when we had this problem) and once it was cleaned out we never had another problem. Mrs. j knows better than to throw greasy stuff down the disposal.
Interestingly, when we had our house built in SC I noticed that the drain line from the house to the city sewer system in the back of the house was not sloped enough and I told my builder about this before the trench was back filled. He thought I was right and said he would have the plumber slope it more. The plumber gave him some BS about it being OK and to code so I had to go along with that but I said I wanted be around when the line was being inspected by the city inspector before it was back filled. The builder gave me a call the day before the inspection and I was there.
The inspector took one look at the slope and said, “this line has to be re-sloped”. He then proceeds to ask the plumber why he did it like he did because there was nothing whatsoever limiting him from giving the line more slope. He then answered his own question by saying, “I guess you wanted to cheat your way through this by not digging a deeper trench. Now do it right”. As he walked away he said “and don’t call me back here until it’s done right. I understand you were questioned about this and you said it was OK. Well, it’s not OK and you know it”. Most cities blow off these kinds of inspections but this town where I lived was a stickler for this stuff. You should have seen the list of the picky stuff they came up with before the builder was granted an “occupancy permit” so that the house could be turned over to me.
Sometimes these inspections work in your favor.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
One helpful thing to do would be to run hot water down the drain for a period of several minutes. Fill the sink with hot, hot water and Dawn detergent strong, and then pull the plug to release the detergent and hot water to try to emulsify some of the oily goop. Follow with more hot, hot water running and then run cold water down to solidify the emulsified suspended greasy stuff and carry it on down the line.
Then I would put in the enzymes they sell to try to digest the grease in the line. Put it in and leave the line unused for hours or a day, such as when leaving.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm also very picky about the garage disposal after potato skins clogged my line. Luckily the clog was accessible in the house and I didnt have to call the plumber.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I should send your thoughts to the school board members and educators in my school district. On second thought I won’t send it to one of the senior school board members. You see, I worked with this guy years ago and he is now retired. They are still trying to clean up some of his screw ups around here and he’s been gone about 12 years now.
This action just made the poison spread. The school system attitude was that "We will do what it takes to avoid litigation".
I’m pretty sure they know the answer but the plaintiffs seem to have better lawyers AND the law is on their side. That’s an overwhelming uphill battle.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was a teacher from 1968-1976, and then a public school principal from 1977-1990. During that time, I worked in a district that refused to promote students from one grade to another unless they had mastered 80% of the curriculum/skills of the previous grade. If they had not mastered 80%, they had to attend a summer school program that zeroed in on their deficiencies. If, at the end of that summer program geared especially to that individual student, he/she had not mastered 80% of the math, reading and language objecties/curriculum, they were "retained" in that same grade. They would not be promoted to the next higher grade level.
When a student was recommended for "retention", we did a complete Case Study Evaluation on that student including a complete psychological (WISC-R) to measure intelligence and identify any possible learning disabilities, a complete social worker evaluation of the student and family, achievement and diagnositis testing for knowledge deficiencies, etc. Then, an IEP (Individualized Eduational Program) was developed and routinely monitored during the entire year the student is retained. Monthly staff meetings were held for each of those students to discuss progress or lack of progress and to come up with alternative plans if goals were not being achieved.
Without going into any more detail which would just bore most of you, we had literally placed a GATE at the end of each school year through which a student could pass to the next grade if 80% mastery had occurred. And, in addition, we had instituted all possible assisting programs to help the student succeed during the following year if he/she had not succeeded the year before.
Students had to pass inventory tests at the end of each quarter to make sure the teacher had taught what was supposed to have been taught and the student had learned "most" of what he/she was supposed to have learned. Tests were administered by proctors, not by teachers, to make sure they were not cheating on the scoring or administering of those tests. We had an independent testing administration service compile all the results and date and then issued a "report card" to the school board each quarter as to their findings. Thus, administrators, teachers and students were all held accountable.
In order to become an administrator in our district, you had to have a minimum of a 132 IQ and at least one advanced degree. Prospective principals also had to pass achievement tests in math, science, Language Arts and reading comprehension at the 90th percentile or higher. Then, and only then, would they qualify to be interviewed by school board memebers, district superintendent and asst. superintendents, and a group of parents where the vacancy for the principalship was.
In my school, when preliminary testing showed a deficiency in 2nd grade reading scores, I had to present a plan to the district on how I was going to solve this problem. I reorganized the entire grade level and place my best teacher in with the lowest achieving students and made sure they were taught nothing but reading, writing and 'rithmetic for 5 straight months. They were not exposed to science or social studies curriculum with the approval of each of the student's parents. At the end of the 5 month period, those students showed an average gain of 1 year in reading and language skills, and only in 1/2 of a school year.
I could go on and on, but I will end this expose by stating that there are ways and means to overcome deficits in learning - one just has to develop and implement a specialized program of instruction with the approval of the school board and the parents!!!
If we ran all public schools in our country like we ran our school district back in teh 70's and 80's, we wouldn't have the problems we have today with children being socially promoted for their age, not their academic achievements.
Richard, hope you have some feedback regarding the above, as I hope jmonroe also has!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I certainly agree with your POV.
Try training these educators on the merits of an IEP for students, ETT (Effective Teacher Training Program), proper testing and scoring practices, etc. There were only two of us out of 3,000 employees certified to teach the ETT program. We always ranked near the bottom on state and federal testing results. In defense of the students, many succeeded in spite of the quality of education here. Unfortunately, the majority just stay here and recycle themselves into the next generation of unsuccessful students.
In spite of it all, I stayed when other offers came my way. Not to be egotistical, but these children needed the few of us who cared and who wanted to do what was best for children. As a personnel director, I hired quite a bit of talent from the Northeast. Locals complained that I was wasting my time because the recruits didn't stay here but a year or two. My reasoning was that at least the children had a good teacher for a couple of years. It beat the hell out of "cousin Sue" or "nephew Charlie" who was hired regardless of the fact that they were the worst instructor on the planet. As for administrators, forget them. I was NEVER allowed to recruit a principal or assistant principal beyond the county borders. Those positions were saved for the sorry [non-permissible content removed] teachers who managed to go to an ineffective graduate school and get an MA in education.
I won't continue, but you get the picture. I will make reference to one of your other points. You used your best teachers to work with the lowest student levels. I understand why you did that. My principals used to do that to me as a teacher. Though it may be a compliment, it doesn't reward the teacher and it doesn't make teaching easy at all. After years of doing that, I finally took AP (Advanced Placement) and Honors training just to have some classes for enjoyment and to stimulate my brain a little. Don't get me wrong. I loved all of my children, and I would have done the same as you. I had a wonderful 40 year career and I wouldn't change a thing. In fact, I'm looking forward to working two days a week beginning next month.
Richard
When we were looking at the second house we ended up buying, I saw a 1/2 HP Kitchenaid disposal that was put in after the house was build. I could see the switch under the sink cabinet and it had a reversing feature. When I asked the woman how she liked it she said, “I like it but it won’t chop up potato skins so I don’t do that anymore”. The very first disposal I installed in our first house had the same problem. When I got tired of dropping the P-trap and cleaning out the line in the wall where it was backing up I decided it was time for a more powerful disposal. I went to Sears and got a 3/4 HP disposal and told Mrs. j to give that a try. She said, “do you think this one will work better”? I told her we’d never know until she tried it. That did it so I told her to not worry about it anymore.
When we bought our second house I took the disposal from out first house and put it in the second house and gave the Kitchenaid to a young fellow worker. The first unit that I put in the first house was in the attic so I was going to reinstall it and I told the realtor what I was going to do. She said, as long as I wasn’t making a change after the house was listed that was not a problem. Then she says, “would you mind telling me again what brand you are taking with you because I have that potato skin problem too”. After that I have never owned a disposal other than a Kenmore.
When we had the house built in SC I was given an allowance for a disposal along with all the other plumbing stuff at the plumbing supply where my builder dealt. When I went to pick out all the faucet stuff the guy said, before I left, I should pick out a disposal and he was about to show me what he had. I said, “I’m going to get that myself at Sears”. I thought he was going to wet his pants from laughing and he said “what we carry, In-Sink-Erator, is a lot better than what you’ll find at Sears”. I said, “maybe so but I’m satisfied with Kenmore. Anyway, it’s not like I haven’t spent enough in here. I’m way over my plumbing allowance as it is already and I see your unit is more than the Kenmore”. When we moved back to the Burgh and finally bought a house in ‘98 I did it again with a Kenmore. Then I did it still again with another Kenmore (1 HP) when we did the kitchen redo in January 2010. Mrs. j has never clogged a drain with potato peels since that first house. We even throw banana skins down that thing and that is supposed to be a no-no with disposals. I have cautioned her about not throwing corn husks down that thing because everything has its limit and I’m sure that would do it in.
I told the tale about Mrs. j chopping up a juice glass and all that was left was some white sand and a few glass chips in the disposal when I took it out after hearing all the noise it made. I was sure that thing was going to be a goner within a few months. We were in the house about 4 months when this happened in ’98. I gave that disposal to my niece when hers quit in early 2010 not too long after the kitchen redo and that thing is still chopping away today.
FWIW, the Kenmore is probably built by In-Sink-Erator but I have to believe it’s built to better specs.
I’m sure there must be a better brand of disposals out there somewhere but it’s probably a commercial unit.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well our guy was supposed to be here at 10:30. We called every half hour and every time we called he said he would be here in a half hour. Finally arrived at 1:30. Not off to a good start. But, it is exactly like you said, it means these guys are busy, and they are sure making money......lots of it because my bill will be $1000.
I'll explain in my answer to Monroe.
I am in complete agreement that the revolution in work and jobs makes todays situation very unique. The depression in the 30s is similar only in that people couln't see that it would end....and that is the feeling people can have now. When you are in a recession you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, and you don't think it will ever end.
Education is another matter. How do you train people for careers when most of the jobs people think they want will radically change or nor exist when they graduate? It sounds like it would be an exciting future, but I am glad I came up in the old system.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Briefly, here's what they found out. The pipe that drains from the kitchen to the main line is about 20 to 25 feet long and is only 1 1/2 inch diameter. It is made of flexible plastic and is warped, and isn't on a big enough slope. If he fixes the clog it will just happen again.
He will replace the 25 ft long pipe with a 2 inch diameter one. This one won't be warped like the other one is and he is certain this will fix the problem.
We have about 20 people coming for lunch on Sunday so I don't have time to fool around. Unfortunately, it will cost $1000. Last time it was $400 for a fix that lasted about 18 months, so if this is the end of the problem than we will just bite the bullet and at least it is done....might have to serve the guests hot dogs instead of better food though! :sick:
The house is 6 years old this month, and I would say it was a flaw the builder missed. I asked the plumber and he said probably the part time crew worked on that and didn't know the problems this would cause.
I am sure a handy person could fix this for cost of materials 25 ft of 2 inch diameter pipe, and 2 or 3 hours of time....maybe $300.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As ‘richard’ said you worked in an “exceptional school district”.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making lite of what you accomplished because I can see where you did some very exceptional things that only a very good school administrator would do but all bets are off when you have the support of the district. Too bad all districts aren’t like the one you worked for and had someone like you steering the ship.
The school district where I live now is the same district that taught my two sons and where I spent 9 th through 12 th grade myself. When Son #2, who is three years younger than his older brother, got to talking to his older brother when he was a senior in high school, he said he could see a big difference in how things were being done than they were when he was a freshman and his older brother was a senior. I knew then and there that this once “one of the top school districts in the State of PA” was on a greasy fast slope downward and this was in ‘90.
It seems like both you and ‘richard’ poured your hearts and soul into your work but you had much more support.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
He will replace the 25 ft long pipe with a 2 inch diameter one. This one won't be warped like the other one is and he is certain this will fix the problem.
I never heard of a main drain line being only 1 1/2 inches here in the states. I have an inch and a half line in my house from all sinks which then goes into a 4 inch line that then goes on to the street as a 4 inch line. If I were paying to have a line redone I’d want a line from the house to the street that was the same size as the hub connection at the street trunk line and I’d want a solid plastic line not a new flexible line of any size other than a small transition piece and then only if that were absolutely necessary.
Also like they did when I lived in SC, I’d want an inspection of the work before it was back filled. If you hear the cry of the plumber like, “oh gee mister, that will only delay me fixing your problem”, I’d be looking for another plumber.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The mainline could be 4 in though it looks like about 3" to me.
He is done and they showed me how the 1 1/2 " pipe was full of white powder stuck to the sides, and it weighed a lot, and that's what made it arch down...so the water had to rise back up.
He said he has been called a lot of times to new houses because of this very problem. They use a small pipe that goes for a distance and it gets plugged up.
He said commercial drain cleaning liquids are only good if the pipe is still working. The new biological ones will actually eat there way through the build up. He suggest using one every few months.
But he tested it and I can see it is running fine now....$1000 later.
One hour to get the pipe, which is probably worth $100 max, he did some welding, and he did a very neat job, but he worked for 2 hours. He had a kid helping him so they made after buying the pipe, about $300 an hour, $25 an hour for the kid and $275 for him. And some people think it is a tough economy!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
It is a tough economy. It’s guys like you and I that pay the freight when something needs fixed. And on top of that they have a good union. They aren’t forced by the government to fix stuff just because people don’t have the money to pay their repair bills.
You think there ought to be a law about that? If there is we’ll pay a lot more for their work than we do now.
Look at it like this, you can have that party now and not miss a minute of your time with your guests when Mrs. driver screams “oh no, look what happened, again”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There were two higher line models above it that were supposed to be even quieter. Things have changed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would never put anything big or chunky down there. Just put it in the garbage instead. Why does the sewer treatment plant need my kitchen garbage too? Besides, if it never goes down, it can't clog the pipe! rarely some small stuff goes down, then we run it.
I did find a neat gizmo at HD (Drove my car there to buy it!!!) It is a drain stopper that has slots on the edge to let water and little stuff down, but blocks anything big, but you can leave it in when running the disposal. Solid plastic with a rubber blade. Very handy since it keeps silverware, etc. from going down (or potato peels), but you never have to take it out to let water flow.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My wife saves all the cooking grease and mixes it with flour, brown sugar and raisins to make "bird cakes" to attract the birds in winter. They are delicious as I found out when the first time she made them I accidentally ate one. :surprise:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
There are greases and fats from bits of meats and other foods along with the materials rinse from plates that accummulate. Even fats that are suspended in dishwashing water fall out of suspension as they run down the pipe and cool.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree, there will be about 20 people for lunch and it is very difficult to do anything without a kitchen sink running properly. Just not being able to operate the dishwasher is enough to cause someone to have a nervous breakdown, let alone not being able to wash fruit and vegetables.
So, using the Driver Method of cost sharing, $1000 is like $10 a week for 2 years! We'll just have to cut back on something to stay within budget...I am feeling better already.
But, I have another rule of finance. Since we saved $16000 buying the Audi instead of a BMW that money will go somewhere else now, something about what the Lord giveth, he taketh away
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You're right and another way to look at this is that you can fix 15 more pipes that have the wrong slope. OK 13...you'll have to upgrade your electrical service before you know it. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I know you will appreciate this.
In the last week or so, I helped my next door neighbor and friend change a headlight bulb in their BMW and fill up the wife's bike tires.
She hadn't ridden it in a while.
Yesterday, my neighbor asked me if I wanted to go the Yanks/Sox game tomorrow.
I think we are going to be 3 or so rows behind home plate. :shades:
He was 100% correct!
I agree 100%. I see it all the time in my job; no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Just one example: You would not believe how many people apply for a court appointed attorney yet they own a 2010-2012 car worth over $20,000. Then they complain that they can't afford an attorney and still make their car payments. While dabbing at my eyes with a tissue I explain that I will not use taxpayer dollars to subsidize their standard of living...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
75% of the people on Judge Judy don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
I once saw a JJ program where a guy was hitting a golf ball out on the street.
The golf ball sailed through the air and broke the windshield of a car being driven down the street. The guy hitting the golf ball said it wasn't his fault because if the car had been going faster or slower the ball would not have struck the car!
Once a young girl came around a corner in the winter time and her car slid across someone's lawn and took out their garden and bushes. Of course it wasn't her fault, it was the fault of the ice on the road!
I am amazed that there are so many people who just don't take responsibility for their actions.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You won't know what kind of dishwasher to buy or what kind of laundry detergent to use......................................... :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think you just ruined that one year record--it's only July.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,