cars get re-listed all the time to change the price. CL is weird in what it will let you do with an open ad.
and the 140K? Probably if you check other round numbers, you will find just as many. Look at say 110K, 120K, etc.
I also think 140 is a point where people that have skimped on maintenance realize that the car is about to come apart at the seams, and want to bail so some other sucker has to deal with it.
or, like my sister, you just got tired of it, and again, mentally you think you are starting to push your luck.
Did you see my later post where I did the same milage search in Tampa and found over a hundred listings with 140,000 miles? Seems to be a very common milage for these old beaters, everywhere. As someone said it could be rounding of milage to an even number or the milage where cars start to fall apart and people dump them.
The human brain is designed to see patterns. Sometimes we see them when they aren't really there like seeing pictures in clouds.
One pattern I see on CL is in the phone numbers that go with the ads. Sometimes I'll feel I've seen a certain number before and sure enough, when I search it, I find some sleazy dealer selling multiple cars as an "owner" so he doesn't have to give a warranty. There are also "title flippers" who buy junk and then flip them for a higher price without ever registering them in their own name. When the car blows up their name was never on the title. :lemon:
It isn't just new car dealers who will say anything to make a sale.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I also think 140 is a point where people that have skimped on maintenance realize that the car is about to come apart at the seams
That is very possible. At 80k miles cars need quite a bit done, and then they are practically rebuilt to go through another life....maybe not another 80k miles but maybe another 60k miles, which would bring them to the 140k mile mark!
I did the same milage search in Tampa and found over a hundred listings with 140,000 miles
Unbelievable! Something is going on. I always say for every problem there has got to be a solution, and for this there is an answer.
I have another few possibilities. These could be cars that are sold at auctions but since regular dealers won't take a car with 140K miles on it, the private guys buy them for next to nothing...a token $1000 bucks or something.
The other thing is unsrupulous auto dealers know they can't sell these cars on their lots so they sell them privately, or sell them off to people (I use the word loosely) who will put them on CL.
I think anything is possible in the used car business. When we were in Florida there were lots of Used Car Road Shows, they set up a big tent in a parking lot and sell the worst used cars possible....fresh from the auction, or cars dealers don't want. They don't even clean them up. And the prices aren't that great. The funny thing is, they seem like pretty decent salespeople. Though, I know they are completely unscrupulous selling junk like that.
I think that is a real find....you should get 60 Minutes to look into it!
Nah! I took stick's suggestion and searched other milages like 130k or 120k and found the same pattern (always listen to an accountant when it comes to numbers).
Looks like I was just seeing pictures in clouds.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
stick's suggestion and searched other milages like 130k or 120k and found the same pattern
Oh, if you did it by mileage then I guess they all would be the same.
If you did it by price, and most seemed to be around $3000, then they are at the low point in their life and would have about that many miles on them.
I looked up Kijiji which is like CL in the U.S. and the first car that had mileage was 140K, but it was kilometers which is only 85K miles. :sick:
I still think there is a conspiracy going on. Someone is collecting cars with 140K miles on them and selling them off to an unsuspecting public....... :shades:
It may be its just the time things start happening to vehicles. Case in point: This weekend the drivers door handle in my HHR came off in my hand ( I wasn't forcing anything, it just broke),,,, milage 139,616. By the time I get to 140k I'll likely be sick of opening the window to get out of it unless I take up the challenge of fixing it before then.
Here is the thing - being approved for a loan does not mean one should take it. While I think the hord of greedy bankers and brokers take a big portion of blame, I still think majority of blame (bar far) lays on the good people of America.
"What do you mean I can't afford it? I'm a good person, I have a good job, my neighbor just got one and I know he makes less than I do. I deserve it."
Yes, people have been conditioned to think like that by marketing, but still again - they are supposed to be adults and know what's good for them. Old Roman rule said there is no harm to the willing. Today people always seem to blame somebody else for their misfortune, even when it is a result of their poor decisions. There is always somebody else at faults - best candidate is somebody with money, or better, an evil faceless corporation that preys on good people. They can pay, nobody will get harmed, cause as we all know, they have all the money. They should know I had no money, so now it's their fault.
btw, a really good book for you to read is Malcom Gladwells "Outliers". It explains why successful people are successful.
I'm interested in that one - I'm currently reading another of his books, "Blink," which talks about how making snap judgments might result in the best, most accurate judgments; i.e., the more info you have sometimes, the more confusing the decision process is to your brain.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I'm currently reading another of his books, "Blink,"
Yes, Gladwell has written a few bestsellers where he takes topics, and finds why certain rules of life happen the way they do.
In the Tipping Point he finds that certain situations come together and create a force that just happens to work...for example in the case of Paul Revere (and note the quotation marks so you know it's a quotation regarding the book);
"Paul Revere was able to galvanize the forces of resistance so effectively in part because he was what Gladwell calls a "Connector": he knew just about everybody, particularly the revolutionary leaders in each of the towns that he rode through. But Revere "wasn't just the man with the biggest Rolodex in colonial Boston," he was also a "Maven" who gathered extensive information about the British. He knew what was going on and he knew exactly whom to tell."
Blink sounds very interesting too. It's like what they say when you answer multiple choice questions.....your first answer is usually the right one.
I'll have to read Blink next, but I read about 10 fictions to one non-fiction, can't tax the old brain too much.
Ray80: was that an inside door handle? I believe those are available on Ebay/Amazon for replacement if you can take off the door panel. I don't know if the handle is available from GM.
Yep, inside handle. I have seen replacements available, appears the ones on Ebay/Amazon require a little mechanical work beyond simple replacement as the original is kind of fused into the whole door assembly (which is why from GM only the whole assembly is available I believe). Doesn't look to tough beyond being careful not to break anything taking the panel off.
Yeah, I remember that from one dealer long ago who thought I was baby seal: offered minimum value for my trade in and MSRP for his new vehicle.
Similar to what happened to me back in the early 70’s. The guy knocked off $75 from MSRP and pushed the 4 square over to me for my signature. I guess the part that really bugged me the most was that I was insulted that he thought I looked like the type that would bite on that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Driver, It has a pretty good vehicle so far, more so after replacing brake rotors with non-GM version. I have seen quite a few around for busineses, light duty as you suggest.
If it manages to get close to 250K miles like my Grand Am did I'd likely consider it a very good vehicle.
A friend of mine told me 'you can find out how to do just about anything on YouTube'.
That's amazing...who would have thought there would be a youtube video for how to fix a door handle on an HHR?
I know we have looked up a few things, I fixed a toilet flapper and that tower thing inside the tank...all by watching youtube, and I am not a DIY person at all.
I do like the back-up camera here in Florida because we do not have parallel parking - all parking is front-first pull in parking. So when backing up, it gives you a great rear view look as well as some rear/side views as well. I also have those front and rear parking sensors. Unfortunately, they only sound out when 18" from an object. I'm still learning how to program them for higher sensitivity as well as getting the distance to 3 feet. Just haven't had the chance to reprogram those sensors.
Infiniti just came out with a computer system that brakes the car when backing up and it senses an object. Don't know if I would like that feature. Need yo study it more to find out distances and circumstances for braking.
There are so many new technological features on the new cars today it is hard to keep up with them all. Boy, I sure wouldn't want to be driving a car when the computer malfunctions. That would make a great topic for posts!
even cars are getting bad these days, but the CUV/SUV class is terrible. Tiny back windows, huge C/D pillars, etc. make it impossible to tell what is behind you unless it is about 7' tall!
My wife is really going to enjoy having that, though she never, ever backs into a spot, you do have to back out...
That is very possible. At 80k miles cars need quite a bit done, and then they are practically rebuilt to go through another life
I don't know about that. I have taken a few cars to twice that without having "quite a bit" done to them. The Hyundai Elantra went to almost 180K with the most serious thing being the timing belt being replaced.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"...I still think the majority of blame (by far) lays on the good people of America."
You make a good point. Mr. X makes $50K per year and his wife is a stay at home mom. The bank says that he is approved for a $350K house. That doesn't mean that he can afford such a house. He is only approved for the loan based on his credit, longevity at work, a small savings account, etc. Mr. X fails to take into consideration that he has one or possibly two car payments, utilities to pay, groceries to buy, a furniture payment, dental bills, etc. He is foolish enough to believe that the bank is saying that he is capable of making the monthly payment. The bank could care less about your monthly payment. They are offering a loan package which will be bundled with other loan packages in order to raise big profits for the bank.
The situation is made worse if the client is not well educated or has trouble understanding the English language. Even well educated people do not always have common sense or any clue as to financial reasoning. As you say, many people have a feeling of entitlement or, as in the case of many young people, the attitude that they can't wait to live the good life. Many do not understand the process of earning and saving for the future or that rewards come with time and hard work. Instant gratification appears to be the rule of the day. Unfortunately for some, the lesson was learned the hard way. The price for this lesson fell on many of us as taxpayers. I certainly don't envy the next generation who will be faced with cleaning up this mess.
I had no idea that you could reprogram the front and rear sensors. Thanks so much for sharing that bit of informaiton! I need to get that done. I would like a warning that is a bit more than 18 inches.
I don't know if all sensor systems can be adjusted, but the one in my car can be made more or less sensitive and adjust distance sensitivity. I just haven't had the time to play with the sensors in the computer screen.
It's so true. Everybody wants everything NOW. The economy doesn't work if every single person makes $100 - $150K per year. I was talking to someone who owns a restaurant. This person said they have trouble hiring bus boys in May & June because it's prime landscaping season. I guess they can make $150 cash per day cutting grass. All of this person's bus boys are illegal immigrants. He pays them cash. This person had tO go out & hire 2 American bus boys. This Person made a mistake with their pay when he hired them, bus boys can work for less than min wage (completely his fault) & paid them minimum wage (they're on the books). So he had to pay them min wage for 40 hrs, time & a half of OT for 15 hours, plus they get a percentage of the waiters' tips.
These 2 bus boys' TAKE HOME pay was $600 for the week. One of them saw his check, said: "screw this," as he threw his apron on the floor and stormed out.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Your comments ring very true, nyccarguy. Even for people like me who are retired. I was offered a job as a sales manager a couple of years ago - $100,000 a year plus bonus, etc. I thought quite a bit about taking the position in a very upscale car dealership, but then I started thinking and assessing my income, needs, and my life at the time as a retiree.
I get $1850 a month from social security (which, at that time I would have had to give up), and $5500 a month in my pension. That's over $80,000 a year, and I was not working. Why would I want to work 60+ hours a week with aggravation and stress for $18,000 more per year? I would have to be nuts. End of that story!
There is a correlation between those kids you mentioned and me - can make as much or more doing less! I worked very, very hard and very long and stressful hours in school administration and ghe retail car business. I've earned GHIS peace and quiet, believe me! I'm sure lots of people who follow this post site are in the same position and have worked very hard so that the last years of our lives could be restful and enjoyable!
I earned what I now have and lost a small fortune in 2008 (my 401k was lost and will never see that money again). And who knows how long my pension will last with Illinois on the verge of bankruptcy. I put 9% of every penny I earned into my pension fund and now I could possibly lose that.
Mike - you made the right choice. It's not worth breaking your balls for an extra $18K per year. You worked hard for many years and have a fantastic pension & social security. My job, while steady as the sunrise doesn't offer a pension (my name's on the door though) & I'm quite sure Social Security WILL NOT be around by the time I'm ready to retire (I'm 36).
My generation knows how to spend, spend, spend. Very different from you guys who grew up & were raised by children of the depression. Save, save, save.
Let's say you (any of you retired guys) were at your job making whatever & you got a raise that turned out to be an extra $50/ month. For the most part, you'd put that extra $50/ month in your savings account & almost make like it wasn't there. That was your new car fund or your new house fund or your new bathroom fund, or your "in case my wife's XG350 throws a rod because the damn dealer put the wrong oil in it" fund.
My generation says, fantastic. I just got a big raise, so now I can go and buy a new cell Phone, up my data plan, buy an iPad for my wife and one for my 6 year old. If I put the extra money away, its not going to make much of a difference so I might as well spend it on stuff.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yes, you are right. But now, with our economy on the verge of another recession, perhaps things will change back to when I was a kid. Yes, when I got a raise, I put it in the bank! My own kids spend every dime they make, and more. But with money getting tight again, there has been a great movement for millions of people paying off debt. Almost 1 trillion in personal debt has been paid off on the last 3 years. People are slowly becoming more frugal WIYH their money. That is why the economy is dipping again - people aren't spending but rather have decided to pay down debt.
That is a big change for our society. But with people paying off their debts, consumption is way down - sort of like a double whammy - to the economy that is.
We are very close in age and how true. Lately with the wedding coming up I've been spending more than ever. I had a talk with my Fiance and said after the wedding/hoenymoon things will go back to normal. I want to let everything settle out, pay down the equity line, etc.
We are very lucky to be starting out with just about everything we need (house with a brand new kitchen, three cars, etc) but need to come back down to earth.
I do like the back-up camera here in Florida because we do not have parallel parking - all parking is front-first pull in parking. So when backing up, it gives you a great rear view look as well as some rear/side views as well.
‘Mike’, you were not in here when I bought my Genny in ’09 and Mrs. jmonroe was not all that thrilled that I bought a new toy and then to make matters worse, I traded her ’06 Sonata LX that had just turned 13K miles while driving to Ohio to get it. Ok, that was a little background info. The next day when we were now back home, I tried to show her some of the features about the car and it has more than its share of those to be sure. I put the car in reverse to activate the back-up camera. Just to be disagreeable she says, “cute, who needs a fancy car that has something like that”? I proceed to tell her that it’s not cute and it could be very functional if she just gave it a chance and I proceed to show her some of the other toys. She was not impressed at all. Just kept saying, “I don’t know why you were such a baby and had to have this car”.
Fast forward to November 2011 when we had to replace the XG350 that blew up. The first thing she says she wants, after she finds out what AWD is (thus the 2012 Legacy Limited), was, “I want my car to have one of those things, you know, the thing that shows you what’s behind you as you’re backing up”. :confuse: To get the back-up camera with the Subie you have to get a “package”, so the car has NAV, Bluetooth, moonroof, Homelink and who knows what else? She uses the Homelink all the time and BTW, I like it and have had it on our cars since ’05. However, she will NEVER use the NAV because she never strays too far from where we live and she has her primary and backup routes to the mall well memorized. She will not dial out while driving but she can take a call via the Bluetooth so that will get some use. She will use the moon roof sometimes, like I do, to purge the car of the summer’s heat which we have plenty of right now; probably equal to what you have in Florida.
So, I guess you can say she made a snap dislike decision about the back-up camera.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You and TJC78 are such fine young men. You restore my faith in the younger generation. I'm proud to know both of you. I sometimes forget how young you both are because you think like so many of us older folks.
You made a great point about people bringing this on themselves. People are also very quick to blame other people (anybody but themselves). "This is all George Bush's fault," "This is what happens when you let Democrats run the country," "I can't wait for Obama's Presidency to end," "GM, & AIG got bailed out... What about me?" "Tax the rich more, they can afford it!"
The Notorious BIG said: "Don't be mad, UPS is hirin'.". Unfortunately there are too many people out there who say: " I make more sitting at home collecting unemployment."
Mike - very funny that you spoke of another recession. I wasn't aware we pulled out of the current mess.
One thing is for sure. We are in a DEEP HOLE and it's going to take my generation and a big chunk of my children's generation to climb out of it.
I've been a saver all my life. I lost approximately $80,000 (I know there are people who LOST a lot more in their 401Ks) selling my condo back in April 2010 (put it on the market in May 2008). I was only able to put 10% down on my house. Thankfully I'd saved every dime of my tax returns from the 7 years I owned the condo for the down payment on my house. I've had to start over again. With 3 children starting over has proven to be difficult.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I like to tell my family that being cheap is a virtue. And I am very virtuous.
we are just happy to almost have thing 1 through college (he is going into senior year), still afloat financially, and him coming out with minimal debt (maybe 15K or so). With an ivy league engineering degree, he better be able to handle that!
so, the wife gets to finally get a new car (we certainly have not been doing much there lately, her van is going on 8 years old!) And yes, I know that prudence says keep it another bunch of years, but every once in a while, you get to do something nice for yourself! after all, you don't live forever, and after a major health scare, you can really appreciate that.
But, if we buy a new car and take on a loan for the first time in at least 5 years, and something bad happens financially (job, medical, whatever) I sure as heck won't be blaming anyone but myself for not being able to afford my house or car!
In that case you may want to read Jonah Leher's nonfiction "Proust was a Nueroscientist". It's a wonderfully lively read on how the arts informed the many insights in neuroscience. You do not have to be a scientist or an artsy-fartsy scholar to understand and appreciate the connections.
NYC. I bought my house in 2005. The market was NUTS to say the least. The only thing that has helped me is I put a ton down and bought a home with some needs. I could probably sell it now for a little more than I paid and would still loose some of the money I put in. Thankfully with the exception of a new electrical service I did everything myself (with some help from my family/friends). If I had to pay full price for everything I did, I would loose a lot more if I had to sell.
RE:401K. After the big drop off I went super aggresive with all my investment elections and I'm happy to report my 401K is now finally above where it was when the bottom fell out. I'm gonna transfer about 35% or so of it to safer investments, but I think I made the right move at the time. Last quarter it was up over 10%, this quarter not so good.
pay off the house? I just refi'd for 30 years! actually a 10 year arm.
But, that was to roll in the HELOC that we used for all the (much needed) remodeling (and I really need to post some pictures of that), free up the $$ for the last few projects, and cut the payment to less than the old mortgage was.
I don't expect to be here more than 10 years (or even quite that long), since by then my youngest should be long out of college, and I won't need a big 4 BR colonial with killer property taxes (but at least we have good schools, that I will no longer feel like paying for). So I'll take whatever the equity is at the time, and move on south.
As you say, many people have a feeling of entitlement or, as in the case of many young people, the attitude that they can't wait to live the good life.
Don’t deny the cry babies for wanting what the rest of us had to wait years to get. They might be hit by a bus tomorrow and then where would they be, huh! When we, only Mrs. j and I, moved to SC in ’92 we built a house that was just what we wanted, although being selfish for once, it was way more than what we needed for the two of us; bigger than 3200 sq. ft. I remember saying to Mrs. jmonroe, “Isn’t this stupid? Here we are about to build a house this size and the kids are gone. When we could have used a house this size we couldn’t afford it. People our age are downsizing. This is all backwards”.
When we were applying for the loan the gal said something like, “why are you only building a house this size, you qualify for much more”. I said, “its way more than we need already so let’s get on with it”. As we were leaving she said, “since you’re building and people always change their minds along the way and add something, if you decide you want to borrow more, let me know, it won’t be a problem”. As it turns out we did do some modifying and while the price was going to be higher, fortunately we had it in the bank and I was all for taking it out of our savings account and giving the builder the difference which was about $11K. Nope, Mrs. j had drawn a line in the savings account that she did not want to go below and said, “lets just borrow $6K more and I’m satisfied”. I said, “why bother”, but we did.
She is the keeper of the accounts so maybe that is best because sometimes I think I’m a big shot although not quite like the generation of today that has to have everything RIGHT NOW.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sounds like an interesting read. Most people on Amazon.com gave the book excellent reviews. One person who reviewed the book gave this outline.
(Note the quotation marks everyone) "The different chapters look at a poet, four novelists, a chef, a painter, and a composer. The chapters each follow similar patterns. Lehrer initially prepares us for each artist with a brief biography at the beginning. He then delves into certain works and exposes the neurological insights of the artists. Once we understand the artist's view on the mind, Lehrer shifts from art to science to show discoveries in neuroscience that pertain to the artist's ideas. Finally, Lehrer attempts to draw similarities between what the artist believed and what neuroscience has discovered."
The book sounds fascinating...I'll add it to my non-fiction list.
People tend to prefer one or the other, fiction or non-fiction, and I prefer non-fiction because it is light and provides escapism I guess. But, once in awhile I like to actually learn something while I am reading and this book does sound interesting.
You've done everything right with the house (well, except to buy it in 2005....). People don't get that unless you've somehow gotten yourself hopelessly underwater - to the point where a foreclosure isn't going to wreck your credit any further than you've already screwed it up - it's almost always best to keep at it. The value will eventually go up and meanwhile you have a place to live.
I was late to the buying a house game but it was the beginning of me being reasonably responsible with my money.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I try to be pretty responsible. I saved for a long time before I bought the house and sold my both my old Lincolns (one beater, one nice one). The best part is even just 7 years in, I could sell it pay off the mortgage, HELOC and still walk away with a nice chunk of change.
I don't know about that. I have taken a few cars to twice that without having "quite a bit" done to them.
I agree 100%. My Jeep(110,000 miles) and 3 Series(134,000 miles) haven't needed any major repairs, period. The Mazda has had a clean bill of health from @60,000 to it's current 106,000 miles, and my X3 didn't require a big ticket repair until nearly 140,000 miles.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
"...didn't require a big ticket repair until 140,000..."
Let me pick your knowledgeable brain. I know that timing BELTS are changed every 60-90k miles but what about timing CHAINS? How long do they last and is there any way to check them for wear?
The last car I own with a timing chain dropped it at 139k with no warning and some serious valve damage. I'd like avoid that.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
>How long do they last and is there any way to check them for wear?
If given proper oil changes, most are good for hundreds of thousands of miles. There are usually design patterns in the setup that may make some vulnerable to earlier failure. A good mechanic will let you know if yours is one of those.
Testing for wear of the chain or gears would be by seeing how much back and forth play is in the chain. The would mean moving the crankshaft pulley with a large wrench while being able to see the rocker arms by removing the valve covers or by looking through the oil filler and assessing how much the crankshaft can move before the camshaft shows movement via the rocker arms. On my Buick engine the camshaft is viewable also through a small opening for the sensor that tells the computer the position of the camshaft. In old days you just rocked the crankshaft pulley and watched the distributor rotate with the cover off. Those days are gone for most vehicles.
...what about timing CHAINS? How long do they last and is there any way to check them for wear?
It really depends on the individual engine family; as imidazol97 noted, most engines that utilize timing chains do not require chain replacement until they reach very high mileages. The 4.0 inline six in my Wrangler will probably never require a timing chain. The four in my 1995 3 Series will probably get one at 175,000 miles- primarily due to the fact it spends several days per year at the track.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
It seems as though reality is defeating perception. We have all heard that that the economy is doing poorly and probably we are in a double-dip recession but not so in the auto industry where sales were up in June 2012. What gives?
I found this link that gives a detail sales breakdown by month and year for each model. Basically sales were up in each category except for large cars. Enjoy! http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/sales-stats.html
It seems as though reality is defeating perception
Auto sales usually pick up in May/June/July/August due to end of year sales, however there was a big jump from 2011 to 2012 and the only possible rationale I can offer is that people have been putting off buying/leasing new cars for quite some time due to the economy and I feel they just could not put the decision off any longer. Also, interest rates and money factors continue to be the lowest they have been in 30 years. Leasing has increased considerably as well due to the lowering of requirements for leasing in terms of credit scores (i.e., 720+ has been the rule of thumb for many leasing arms of manufacturers, but that has been lowered to 680 in recent months).
Factory orders were also up for last month, but I feel that is just a fluke in an economy, world-wide, that is in for another deep recession. Even China is feeling the negative effects of this drain. Consumer confidence, however, which is a better gauge of the near future, was down considerably in recent months.
In summary, all the signs (with the exception of auto sales) are negative toward an improving economy, both in North America and Europe/Asia. The Fed continues to keep interest rates artificially low, but that has done little, if anythings, to improve our eonomic indicators. Yes, we are in for another recession and I believe this one will not be as bad as the one in 2009/2010. I believe recovery will be a little stronger and faster, but not until 2014.
Comments
and the 140K? Probably if you check other round numbers, you will find just as many. Look at say 110K, 120K, etc.
I also think 140 is a point where people that have skimped on maintenance realize that the car is about to come apart at the seams, and want to bail so some other sucker has to deal with it.
or, like my sister, you just got tired of it, and again, mentally you think you are starting to push your luck.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Did you see my later post where I did the same milage search in Tampa and found over a hundred listings with 140,000 miles? Seems to be a very common milage for these old beaters, everywhere. As someone said it could be rounding of milage to an even number or the milage where cars start to fall apart and people dump them.
The human brain is designed to see patterns. Sometimes we see them when they aren't really there like seeing pictures in clouds.
One pattern I see on CL is in the phone numbers that go with the ads. Sometimes I'll feel I've seen a certain number before and sure enough, when I search it, I find some sleazy dealer selling multiple cars as an "owner" so he doesn't have to give a warranty. There are also "title flippers" who buy junk and then flip them for a higher price without ever registering them in their own name. When the car blows up their name was never on the title. :lemon:
It isn't just new car dealers who will say anything to make a sale.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That is very possible. At 80k miles cars need quite a bit done, and then they are practically rebuilt to go through another life....maybe not another 80k miles but maybe another 60k miles, which would bring them to the 140k mile mark!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Unbelievable! Something is going on. I always say for every problem there has got to be a solution, and for this there is an answer.
I have another few possibilities. These could be cars that are sold at auctions but since regular dealers won't take a car with 140K miles on it, the private guys buy them for next to nothing...a token $1000 bucks or something.
The other thing is unsrupulous auto dealers know they can't sell these cars on their lots so they sell them privately, or sell them off to people (I use the word loosely) who will put them on CL.
I think anything is possible in the used car business. When we were in Florida there were lots of Used Car Road Shows, they set up a big tent in a parking lot and sell the worst used cars possible....fresh from the auction, or cars dealers don't want. They don't even clean them up. And the prices aren't that great. The funny thing is, they seem like pretty decent salespeople. Though, I know they are completely unscrupulous selling junk like that.
I think that is a real find....you should get 60 Minutes to look into it!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nah! I took stick's suggestion and searched other milages like 130k or 120k and found the same pattern (always listen to an accountant when it comes to numbers).
Looks like I was just seeing pictures in clouds.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oh, if you did it by mileage then I guess they all would be the same.
If you did it by price, and most seemed to be around $3000, then they are at the low point in their life and would have about that many miles on them.
I looked up Kijiji which is like CL in the U.S. and the first car that had mileage was 140K, but it was kilometers which is only 85K miles. :sick:
I still think there is a conspiracy going on. Someone is collecting cars with 140K miles on them and selling them off to an unsuspecting public....... :shades:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"What do you mean I can't afford it? I'm a good person, I have a good job, my neighbor just got one and I know he makes less than I do. I deserve it."
Yes, people have been conditioned to think like that by marketing, but still again - they are supposed to be adults and know what's good for them. Old Roman rule said there is no harm to the willing. Today people always seem to blame somebody else for their misfortune, even when it is a result of their poor decisions. There is always somebody else at faults - best candidate is somebody with money, or better, an evil faceless corporation that preys on good people. They can pay, nobody will get harmed, cause as we all know, they have all the money. They should know I had no money, so now it's their fault.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
It explains why successful people are successful.
I'm interested in that one - I'm currently reading another of his books, "Blink," which talks about how making snap judgments might result in the best, most accurate judgments; i.e., the more info you have sometimes, the more confusing the decision process is to your brain.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Yes, Gladwell has written a few bestsellers where he takes topics, and finds why certain rules of life happen the way they do.
In the Tipping Point he finds that certain situations come together and create a force that just happens to work...for example in the case of Paul Revere (and note the quotation marks so you know it's a quotation regarding the book);
"Paul Revere was able to galvanize the forces of resistance so effectively in part because he was what Gladwell calls a "Connector": he knew just about everybody, particularly the revolutionary leaders in each of the towns that he rode through. But Revere "wasn't just the man with the biggest Rolodex in colonial Boston," he was also a "Maven" who gathered extensive information about the British. He knew what was going on and he knew exactly whom to tell."
Blink sounds very interesting too. It's like what they say when you answer multiple choice questions.....your first answer is usually the right one.
I'll have to read Blink next, but I read about 10 fictions to one non-fiction, can't tax the old brain too much.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What do you think of your HHR....besides the door handle. It must be a pretty good vehicle to make it to 140K miles.
Would you consider buying another one? What were the reasons you bought it in the first place?
I thought they would make a pretty good vehicle for light work...like a house painter or something
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Similar to what happened to me back in the early 70’s. The guy knocked off $75 from MSRP and pushed the 4 square over to me for my signature. I guess the part that really bugged me the most was that I was insulted that he thought I looked like the type that would bite on that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If it manages to get close to 250K miles like my Grand Am did I'd likely consider it a very good vehicle.
Here you go
That's amazing...who would have thought there would be a youtube video for how to fix a door handle on an HHR?
I know we have looked up a few things, I fixed a toilet flapper and that tower thing inside the tank...all by watching youtube, and I am not a DIY person at all.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I do like the back-up camera here in Florida because we do not have parallel parking - all parking is front-first pull in parking. So when backing up, it gives you a great rear view look as well as some rear/side views as well. I also have those front and rear parking sensors. Unfortunately, they only sound out when 18" from an object. I'm still learning how to program them for higher sensitivity as well as getting the distance to 3 feet. Just haven't had the chance to reprogram those sensors.
Infiniti just came out with a computer system that brakes the car when backing up and it senses an object. Don't know if I would like that feature. Need yo study it more to find out distances and circumstances for braking.
There are so many new technological features on the new cars today it is hard to keep up with them all. Boy, I sure wouldn't want to be driving a car when the computer malfunctions. That would make a great topic for posts!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
My wife is really going to enjoy having that, though she never, ever backs into a spot, you do have to back out...
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't know about that. I have taken a few cars to twice that without having "quite a bit" done to them. The Hyundai Elantra went to almost 180K with the most serious thing being the timing belt being replaced.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You make a good point. Mr. X makes $50K per year and his wife is a stay at home mom. The bank says that he is approved for a $350K house. That doesn't mean that he can afford such a house. He is only approved for the loan based on his credit, longevity at work, a small savings account, etc. Mr. X fails to take into consideration that he has one or possibly two car payments, utilities to pay, groceries to buy, a furniture payment, dental bills, etc. He is foolish enough to believe that the bank is saying that he is capable of making the monthly payment. The bank could care less about your monthly payment. They are offering a loan package which will be bundled with other loan packages in order to raise big profits for the bank.
The situation is made worse if the client is not well educated or has trouble understanding the English language. Even well educated people do not always have common sense or any clue as to financial reasoning. As you say, many people have a feeling of entitlement or, as in the case of many young people, the attitude that they can't wait to live the good life. Many do not understand the process of earning and saving for the future or that rewards come with time and hard work. Instant gratification appears to be the rule of the day. Unfortunately for some, the lesson was learned the hard way. The price for this lesson fell on many of us as taxpayers. I certainly don't envy the next generation who will be faced with cleaning up this mess.
Richard
Richard
I don't know if all sensor systems can be adjusted, but the one in my car can be made more or less sensitive and adjust distance sensitivity. I just haven't had the time to play with the sensors in the computer screen.
Good luck!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
These 2 bus boys' TAKE HOME pay was $600 for the week. One of them saw his check, said: "screw this," as he threw his apron on the floor and stormed out.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Your comments ring very true, nyccarguy. Even for people like me who are retired. I was offered a job as a sales manager a couple of years ago - $100,000 a year plus bonus, etc. I thought quite a bit about taking the position in a very upscale car dealership, but then I started thinking and assessing my income, needs, and my life at the time as a retiree.
I get $1850 a month from social security (which, at that time I would have had to give up), and $5500 a month in my pension. That's over $80,000 a year, and I was not working. Why would I want to work 60+ hours a week with aggravation and stress for $18,000 more per year? I would have to be nuts. End of that story!
There is a correlation between those kids you mentioned and me - can make as much or more doing less! I worked very, very hard and very long and stressful hours in school administration and ghe retail car business. I've earned GHIS peace and quiet, believe me! I'm sure lots of people who follow this post site are in the same position and have worked very hard so that the last years of our lives could be restful and enjoyable!
I earned what I now have and lost a small fortune in 2008 (my 401k was lost and will never see that money again). And who knows how long my pension will last with Illinois on the verge of bankruptcy. I put 9% of every penny I earned into my pension fund and now I could possibly lose that.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
My generation knows how to spend, spend, spend. Very different from you guys who grew up & were raised by children of the depression. Save, save, save.
Let's say you (any of you retired guys) were at your job making whatever & you got a raise that turned out to be an extra $50/ month. For the most part, you'd put that extra $50/ month in your savings account & almost make like it wasn't there. That was your new car fund or your new house fund or your new bathroom fund, or your "in case my wife's XG350 throws a rod because the damn dealer put the wrong oil in it" fund.
My generation says, fantastic. I just got a big raise, so now I can go and buy a new cell Phone, up my data plan, buy an iPad for my wife and one for my 6 year old. If I put the extra money away, its not going to make much of a difference so I might as well spend it on stuff.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Yes, you are right. But now, with our economy on the verge of another recession, perhaps things will change back to when I was a kid. Yes, when I got a raise, I put it in the bank! My own kids spend every dime they make, and more. But with money getting tight again, there has been a great movement for millions of people paying off debt. Almost 1 trillion in personal debt has been paid off on the last 3 years. People are slowly becoming more frugal WIYH their money. That is why the economy is dipping again - people aren't spending but rather have decided to pay down debt.
That is a big change for our society. But with people paying off their debts, consumption is way down - sort of like a double whammy - to the economy that is.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
We are very close in age and how true. Lately with the wedding coming up I've been spending more than ever. I had a talk with my Fiance and said after the wedding/hoenymoon things will go back to normal. I want to let everything settle out, pay down the equity line, etc.
We are very lucky to be starting out with just about everything we need (house with a brand new kitchen, three cars, etc) but need to come back down to earth.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
‘Mike’, you were not in here when I bought my Genny in ’09 and Mrs. jmonroe was not all that thrilled that I bought a new toy and then to make matters worse, I traded her ’06 Sonata LX that had just turned 13K miles while driving to Ohio to get it. Ok, that was a little background info. The next day when we were now back home, I tried to show her some of the features about the car and it has more than its share of those to be sure. I put the car in reverse to activate the back-up camera. Just to be disagreeable she says, “cute, who needs a fancy car that has something like that”? I proceed to tell her that it’s not cute and it could be very functional if she just gave it a chance and I proceed to show her some of the other toys. She was not impressed at all. Just kept saying, “I don’t know why you were such a baby and had to have this car”.
Fast forward to November 2011 when we had to replace the XG350 that blew up. The first thing she says she wants, after she finds out what AWD is (thus the 2012 Legacy Limited), was, “I want my car to have one of those things, you know, the thing that shows you what’s behind you as you’re backing up”. :confuse: To get the back-up camera with the Subie you have to get a “package”, so the car has NAV, Bluetooth, moonroof, Homelink and who knows what else? She uses the Homelink all the time and BTW, I like it and have had it on our cars since ’05. However, she will NEVER use the NAV because she never strays too far from where we live and she has her primary and backup routes to the mall well memorized. She will not dial out while driving but she can take a call via the Bluetooth so that will get some use. She will use the moon roof sometimes, like I do, to purge the car of the summer’s heat which we have plenty of right now; probably equal to what you have in Florida.
So, I guess you can say she made a snap dislike decision about the back-up camera.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
The Notorious BIG said: "Don't be mad, UPS is hirin'.". Unfortunately there are too many people out there who say: " I make more sitting at home collecting unemployment."
Mike - very funny that you spoke of another recession. I wasn't aware we pulled out of the current mess.
One thing is for sure. We are in a DEEP HOLE and it's going to take my generation and a big chunk of my children's generation to climb out of it.
I've been a saver all my life. I lost approximately $80,000 (I know there are people who LOST a lot more in their 401Ks) selling my condo back in April 2010 (put it on the market in May 2008). I was only able to put 10% down on my house. Thankfully I'd saved every dime of my tax returns from the 7 years I owned the condo for the down payment on my house. I've had to start over again. With 3 children starting over has proven to be difficult.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
we are just happy to almost have thing 1 through college (he is going into senior year), still afloat financially, and him coming out with minimal debt (maybe 15K or so). With an ivy league engineering degree, he better be able to handle that!
so, the wife gets to finally get a new car (we certainly have not been doing much there lately, her van is going on 8 years old!) And yes, I know that prudence says keep it another bunch of years, but every once in a while, you get to do something nice for yourself! after all, you don't live forever, and after a major health scare, you can really appreciate that.
But, if we buy a new car and take on a loan for the first time in at least 5 years, and something bad happens financially (job, medical, whatever) I sure as heck won't be blaming anyone but myself for not being able to afford my house or car!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
In that case you may want to read Jonah Leher's nonfiction "Proust was a Nueroscientist". It's a wonderfully lively read on how the arts informed the many insights in neuroscience. You do not have to be a scientist or an artsy-fartsy scholar to understand and appreciate the connections.
Heck, you're a downright saint! :P
Disclaimer: So am I.
I think almost anyone makes better choices on money as they get older. I certainly did. Now it's only a few years before the house is paid off.....
NYC. I bought my house in 2005. The market was NUTS to say the least. The only thing that has helped me is I put a ton down and bought a home with some needs. I could probably sell it now for a little more than I paid and would still loose some of the money I put in. Thankfully with the exception of a new electrical service I did everything myself (with some help from my family/friends). If I had to pay full price for everything I did, I would loose a lot more if I had to sell.
RE:401K. After the big drop off I went super aggresive with all my investment elections and I'm happy to report my 401K is now finally above where it was when the bottom fell out. I'm gonna transfer about 35% or so of it to safer investments, but I think I made the right move at the time. Last quarter it was up over 10%, this quarter not so good.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
But, that was to roll in the HELOC that we used for all the (much needed) remodeling (and I really need to post some pictures of that), free up the $$ for the last few projects, and cut the payment to less than the old mortgage was.
I don't expect to be here more than 10 years (or even quite that long), since by then my youngest should be long out of college, and I won't need a big 4 BR colonial with killer property taxes (but at least we have good schools, that I will no longer feel like paying for). So I'll take whatever the equity is at the time, and move on south.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Don’t deny the cry babies for wanting what the rest of us had to wait years to get. They might be hit by a bus tomorrow and then where would they be, huh! When we, only Mrs. j and I, moved to SC in ’92 we built a house that was just what we wanted, although being selfish for once, it was way more than what we needed for the two of us; bigger than 3200 sq. ft. I remember saying to Mrs. jmonroe, “Isn’t this stupid? Here we are about to build a house this size and the kids are gone. When we could have used a house this size we couldn’t afford it. People our age are downsizing. This is all backwards”.
When we were applying for the loan the gal said something like, “why are you only building a house this size, you qualify for much more”. I said, “its way more than we need already so let’s get on with it”. As we were leaving she said, “since you’re building and people always change their minds along the way and add something, if you decide you want to borrow more, let me know, it won’t be a problem”. As it turns out we did do some modifying and while the price was going to be higher, fortunately we had it in the bank and I was all for taking it out of our savings account and giving the builder the difference which was about $11K. Nope, Mrs. j had drawn a line in the savings account that she did not want to go below and said, “lets just borrow $6K more and I’m satisfied”. I said, “why bother”, but we did.
She is the keeper of the accounts so maybe that is best because sometimes I think I’m a big shot although not quite like the generation of today that has to have everything RIGHT NOW.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sounds like an interesting read. Most people on Amazon.com gave the book excellent reviews. One person who reviewed the book gave this outline.
(Note the quotation marks everyone)
"The different chapters look at a poet, four novelists, a chef, a painter, and a composer. The chapters each follow similar patterns. Lehrer initially prepares us for each artist with a brief biography at the beginning. He then delves into certain works and exposes the neurological insights of the artists. Once we understand the artist's view on the mind, Lehrer shifts from art to science to show discoveries in neuroscience that pertain to the artist's ideas. Finally, Lehrer attempts to draw similarities between what the artist believed and what neuroscience has discovered."
The book sounds fascinating...I'll add it to my non-fiction list.
People tend to prefer one or the other, fiction or non-fiction, and I prefer non-fiction because it is light and provides escapism I guess. But, once in awhile I like to actually learn something while I am reading and this book does sound interesting.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was late to the buying a house game but it was the beginning of me being reasonably responsible with my money.
Moot point, I'm not going anywhere!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I agree 100%. My Jeep(110,000 miles) and 3 Series(134,000 miles) haven't needed any major repairs, period. The Mazda has had a clean bill of health from @60,000 to it's current 106,000 miles, and my X3 didn't require a big ticket repair until nearly 140,000 miles.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Let me pick your knowledgeable brain. I know that timing BELTS are changed every 60-90k miles but what about timing CHAINS? How long do they last and is there any way to check them for wear?
The last car I own with a timing chain dropped it at 139k with no warning and some serious valve damage. I'd like avoid that.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If given proper oil changes, most are good for hundreds of thousands of miles. There are usually design patterns in the setup that may make some vulnerable to earlier failure. A good mechanic will let you know if yours is one of those.
Testing for wear of the chain or gears would be by seeing how much back and forth play is in the chain. The would mean moving the crankshaft pulley with a large wrench while being able to see the rocker arms by removing the valve covers or by looking through the oil filler and assessing how much the crankshaft can move before the camshaft shows movement via the rocker arms. On my Buick engine the camshaft is viewable also through a small opening for the sensor that tells the computer the position of the camshaft. In old days you just rocked the crankshaft pulley and watched the distributor rotate with the cover off. Those days are gone for most vehicles.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh oh, the dreaded 140K miles....time to unload it on CL. :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It really depends on the individual engine family; as imidazol97 noted, most engines that utilize timing chains do not require chain replacement until they reach very high mileages. The 4.0 inline six in my Wrangler will probably never require a timing chain. The four in my 1995 3 Series will probably get one at 175,000 miles- primarily due to the fact it spends several days per year at the track.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Nah, we're going to let my son eke 4-5 more years out of it...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I found this link that gives a detail sales breakdown by month and year for each model. Basically sales were up in each category except for large cars.
Enjoy! http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/p/sales-stats.html
Auto sales usually pick up in May/June/July/August due to end of year sales, however there was a big jump from 2011 to 2012 and the only possible rationale I can offer is that people have been putting off buying/leasing new cars for quite some time due to the economy and I feel they just could not put the decision off any longer. Also, interest rates and money factors continue to be the lowest they have been in 30 years. Leasing has increased considerably as well due to the lowering of requirements for leasing in terms of credit scores (i.e., 720+ has been the rule of thumb for many leasing arms of manufacturers, but that has been lowered to 680 in recent months).
Factory orders were also up for last month, but I feel that is just a fluke in an economy, world-wide, that is in for another deep recession. Even China is feeling the negative effects of this drain. Consumer confidence, however, which is a better gauge of the near future, was down considerably in recent months.
In summary, all the signs (with the exception of auto sales) are negative toward an improving economy, both in North America and Europe/Asia. The Fed continues to keep interest rates artificially low, but that has done little, if anythings, to improve our eonomic indicators. Yes, we are in for another recession and I believe this one will not be as bad as the one in 2009/2010. I believe recovery will be a little stronger and faster, but not until 2014.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger