The outside temperature sounds like an FM radio station number.
We need some of that cool air from Canada. Can Drive100 sends up a few thousand cubic miles of cool air?
I remember going to Sault St. Marie weekend before July 4 to ride the excursion train on into Canada. We rode the sight-seeing boat through the locks the next morning and I happened to have my medium winter jacket in the car and it was NOT heavy enough. Temp must have been down near freezing. I want that kind of air!!!
gg- Whew... less than a year in that BMW would have been a shock, even for you.
fez- Congrats! Sounds like you are getting some serious treatment.
jmonroe- Thanks for the links. I'll check out that story out when I have some time for quality reading. But what's this about a discount? When Kirstie suggested I come back and visit, she told me that I needed to pay all my back dues! It took me a week of negotiations, but I got her down to 50%, an extra key, and she threw in floor mats.
And which one of you yahoos ticked off isell so that he won't come around any more???
Not likely to end up in BK court. I doubt she'll live that long and even if she does when you get to the world class hospitals there are lots of programs for people who can't afford the treatment. I'm really surprised they don't already have her in such a program. Sad case. She's in her 20s and has a highly rare for of leukemia - fewer than a dozen cases recorded in the world.
If she does beat this thing (I'm big in her corner) I think it is worth more in bragging rights that a few million.
Of course in the real world hospitals are required to treat patients and worry about the money later. Anyone who thinks we didn't have universal health care before Obama is kidding themselves. We just had a lousy system. The new one isn't where we need to be but at least it will get more people covered rather than essentially passing the billing over to the companies already insuring you and me and raising those rates.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Hmmm, never thought of that. Will mention to the doctor when I see him next that your brother contracted that. I'm still having a few problems breathing every so often so I use an inhaler the doctor prescribed. Also still breaking out in night sweats, but no fever. I'm supposed to get another chest X-ray next Friday to see if the pneumonia has subsided.
Maybe it was 2005 when Wilma hit us. All I know is Wilma was supposed to hit us as a weak category 1 hurricane, but when she hit us, she was a category 3.
Thanks for your thoughts regarding my health, and also for proving to me that I'm getting old and can't remember one year from the next.
We need some of that cool air from Canada. Can Drive100 sends up a few thousand cubic miles of cool air?
Yeh, sure, when it is broiling down there you want us to send you some cold air, when it is freezing cold you blame us for it.
Temperature here was 96 yesterday, so I can't help you anyway. Usually that warm air comes up from your way (Note, I didn't say hot air), and this time it got here via Chicago.
Sault Ste Marie is in a much cooler area, above Lake Superior, so that's quite a ways North of Toronto. We are pretty similar to maybe Chicago in Latitude.
The game was a memorable experience. When we got there, our tickets wouldn't scan through, so we ended up having to wait a permission to go in for over 1/2 an hour. The game had already started by the time we got to our seat, but good news was that the bases were loaded for the Yankees. The seats were great, right behind home plate, 3 rows back. Got lots of phones from people who could see me on tv. In addition, the people to my right were a family that lives in the same town and I knew from church and socially. They are Yankee fans, so that made it even better. My first call was from my wife, 'Are you sitting next to Ann... and her family?' Yup, that's them. Later on, the ladies' brother called her and said to her, 'Who's that guy next to you? You two seem to be having little too much fun'. One of the unoffical rules we learned about was no talking on the phone during the game. Texting is ok because you can hold the phone out of sight. I waited until play was over until looking at my messages of talking on the phone, except one time, the conversation went on a bit long. When I looked up, the batter was stepping into the batter's box, but the home plate umpire was turned around glaring at me. :surprise: What a great experience.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Hmmm, never thought of that. Will mention to the doctor when I see him next that your brother contracted that.
I don’t know what hospital you were at but my brother was at the Delray Beach Hospital (I’m pretty sure that was the name of the hospital). He went there when he wasn’t feeling well at the insistence of my SIL. He was admitted and they thought it was the regular strain of pneumonia and he was given whatever they give you for that but when he didn’t respond to that like he should have (about the second day) they brought in some infectious disease experts and the next day they had it diagnosed as Legionnaires Disease. They gave him some designer drugs made for that and that did it, although he was there about a week.
Like ‘richard’ said earlier, there is an answer for most everything, so if they haven’t gotten you back to normal by now it would be worth mentioning the bit about Legionnaires Disease. It can’t hurt.
…and also for proving to me that I'm getting old and can't remember one year from the next.
Don’t feel bad, I’ve been accused of having CRS disease for a few years lately myself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
stopped at my Acura dealer to see a used BMW X3. which of course was outside, and I spotted it when we parked. So, dragged the wife and daughter over to check it out. Turned out to be a dud. dark silver was not a winner, and the black interior did not.
plus, my wife looked inside and saw the normal wear and tear, and pointed out that it was "all marked up". so, the used option is off the table (she would just keep her van instead). She wants her mid-life treat, and it needs to be new (the car, not me...)
So, we scoped out a few new RDXs in the row. all black, which seems to be the vast majority of what is out there. But, there was an ILX next to them in a color the wife had been waiting to see ("amber brownstone", a sort of grayish tan). turns out, she was not all that fond of it afterall, but did like the dark gray RDX we saw going out for a test drive ("graphite lustre I think).
oh, the good day part? If you want to look at the stock outside in peace, a day like today was even better than going on a Sunday when they are closed! Not a chance in the world that a salesperson was coming out to accost you today.
Not a chance in the world a salesman would accost you...
One of my pet peeves regarding car salespeople is that they just don't allow a customer to browse a used or new car lot unaccosted. So when I became a sales manager, I made it clear that a customer is not a customer until he/she entered the dealership through the front door. Then, and only then, we're they to be greeted. It was the sales manager's responsibility to enforce this policy.
Thus, I had a sign made up to be posted at all entrances to the new and used car lots informing prospective customers that they were free to browse the inventory without disruption from a salesperson and if they needed any assistance to please come to the showroom. I received outstanding and positive feedback from our customers that they appreciated the company's professionalism and sensitivity.
until he/she entered the dealership through the front door. Then, and only then, we're they to be greeted.
I really like that policy. I sometimes just want to look around without being hounded. I think clothing stores learned this lesson, they used to pounce on you as soon as you entered the store.
Now, they usually greet you and say something like if you need help just ask. I learned in a sales course not to ask a customer a "yes" or "no" question because that just requires one answer and the discussion is closed. But, a question that gets the customer talking is better, "What kind of cars were you looking for today?".
I think letting customers look around is good, people like to browse and not have to defend themselves initially. If a customer is interested he will go in and ask for help.
I think letting customers look around is good, people like to browse and not have to defend themselves initially. If a customer is interested he will go in and ask for help
I don't mind being approached and asked if I need help- but if I'm truly just browsing I expect to be left alone after the initial contact. That said, an Ohio BMW dealer lost an easy and lucrative sale back in 2006 when I went to their lot with cash in hand to buy one of two CPO 540i Spors they had in their inventory.t. Not only was I ignored while checking out the cars on the lot, I couldn't find anyone to help me in the CPO showroom either. After fifteen minutes of being ignored we left- never to return. They should have known I wasn't a stroke; I showed up with my wife and son in the 2004 X3. Perhaps my BMW F1 windbreaker didn't meet their dress code. Morons.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If I am out looking, I actually expect, and am fine with, having someone come out to greet me. But, I also expect that if I tell them I really just want to browse around, that they will give me a card and tell me to come on inside if I have any questions. I really don't need a chaperon if I say I don't.
Funny thing to me, over the years the only place where I really found myself completely ignored, even though I was standing in the showroom obviously looking around for a person to talk to, and nothing, was at a Chevy dealer. a couple of times. Even when I finally headed to the door, nothing.
maybe they knew there was really no chance I was going to buy a chevy?
conversely, when I walked into a high end store, I was treated like royalty. BMW< Volvo, etc.
I may have told this story before but years ago I was poking around looking at cars. I see K-car (could have been a Plymouth or Dodge - don't remember which) on parked in front of a lot and stop to take a peek. (This was 1982 so it was a little bit of curiosity. After a short time a nice enough old guy comes out and asks if he can help and I said I was just looking and it wasn't really up my alley. He basically tells me that's fine and if I want help just ask if gives me his card and says if he can help me with anything any time just call.
Well, I didn't end up calling him back but htree years later I married his daughter.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I don't mind being approached and asked if I need help- but if I'm truly just browsing I expect to be left alone after the initial contact.
I can see that too, no harm in asking but salesmen should let you look if that is all you want to do.
This new state of the art Mercedes place openned in town. The cars outside are in pools of water, there is a coffee shop, the service area is immaculate, they have a nail and beauty salon, coffee bar etc. We sat in about 10 different cars in the showroom and not a salesman approached.
It didn't matter, model for model, we liked bmws and Audis more. We could tell from just sitting in the cars how it felt. I was glad we didn't have to deal with a salesperson.
Well, I didn't end up calling him back but htree years later I married his daughter.
I guess that was before you were a member here and didn't know car shopping is a serious business and is not to be taken lightly. Sometimes out of the blue you get a good deal.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
When I was working at a luxury brand dealership as a salesman (first time I worked in the car business after retiring from education), the sales manager told me when I started that the less you know about invoices, costs, leases, etc., the more I would make in this business. I couldn't figure out why he said that at the time, so I just forgot about it.
About two months later, on New Years Eve, a couple came into the showroom looking for a new coupe convertible. The wanted a specific color and interior, which I saw come off a transport truck the day before. Luckily for me, it was available even though there was a short supply of them due to its popularity (there was a waiting list for orders and deliveries, but this was a very unpopular color). He wanted to lease it for 60 months and his credit was less than glowing, but OK.
After a demo drive he said he wanted the car NOW to take his wife to a big New Years bash later that evening. We went into ghe showroom, started paperwork for credit and negotiating, and then went to the manager. He wrote down a monthly lease payment on my sheet and told me to present it to the customer. I did what he said (payment was $1125 per month with $3800 down - car MSRP'd at $68,750 which 10 years ago was a lot of money, needless to say). He looked at it and said it was way more than he thought it would be. I reminded him that his credit score was 688 which meant he could not get the best rate available in terms of money factor, which was true, and that there was a waiting list for this car but luckily he came to the biggest dealership in the country where we get additional allocations, which was also true. He gave me a counter offer of $1100 a month with $2500 down. I took his offer to the manager who accepted the offer and told me to get the car ready for delivery and finish the paperwork.
After delivering the new car, the manager calls me into the main office. He asked me what I thought my commission was on this leased convertible. I said I didn't know. But the average commission was about $1800, but since we accepted his reduced counter offer, I guessed it would be closer to $1500. He laughed and said to me, "...remember what I told you when you started with us a few months ago that the less you know about costs, etc., the more you would make?". I responded yes and he said I had made a commission of over $5300 because they leased the car for over MSRP. I nearly passed out. I also felt guilty about selling a car for so much over MSRP. He told me that the customer knew how difficult it was to get a convertible and that the customer let his emotions take control of his wallet. To this day, I still feel guilt over that deal.
So, the moral of this story is that not all deals are out of the blue!
I had made a commission of over $5300 because they leased the car for over MSRP...I still feel guilt over that deal.
Nice sales story.
And all this time I thought the average commission on a typical new car sale was about $200 and perhaps slightly higher for luxury models. Does anybody really know how salesmen/women are compensated?
As to guilt, my most recent salesman did not feel any guilt when our agreed transaction price turned out to be much different from what I had bargained for.
We had agreed on invoice plus $500. But that invoice price turned out to be very different from Edmunds and in the end the final price was only $200 below MRSP. Yet I thought he was one of the most pleasant salesmen I had ever met. So much so that I always visited with him when I brought my car in for service. Unfortunately he died unexpectedly a few weeks ago.
The story I just related took place over 10 years ago. At that time, my average commission was $350 per new car sold. Most of my deals netted me $200, but on newly introduced models that were "hot", I could make upwards of $2000. But it all averaged out at about $350.
Sales people earn about 25% commission on the first 8 or so units sold in a calendar month on the NET PROFIT of any car they sell. After 8 units sold in a month, commission goes up to 30% and then to 35%, depending on total units sold in a given month. If I sold 35 cars a month, commission on the 1st and 2nd tier levels were increased to the highest %age I was eligible for. Then, there were special bonuses paid called "spiffs" for selling x number of cars on a weekend or for selling used cars on the lot that had aged 30 days since taken in trade.
Each dealership pays commissions in a similar manner, but not exactly as I was paid. Also, if there was low net profit on the sale, I was paid a mini-commission of $200 per car
The profit on a car is determined differently at each dealership. For example, let's say the gross on a new car sold is $1900. First, a "house pack" is deducted from that figure, usually about $600 for prep, used car inspections, gasoline for demo drives, interest on inventory (called floor plan), to name a few. Each dealership is different, so I can't speak for all of them.
Sales people earn about 25% commission on the first 8 or so units sold in a calendar month on the NET PROFIT of any car they sell.
Thanks for the insight and yes you have answered my question. And Wow! the car biz seems really tough. Any commissions based on "net profit" is a slippery slope as the profit margin is getting thinner and thinner these days.
That's for sure! Sales people in the car business are becoming less and less reliant on commission percentages and are geared/attuned to reaching sales targets to earn bonuses and special spiffs. The only way a sales person can earn a living on commissions only is to work for Porsche, Ferrari, Rolls, Bentley, etc., where discounts off MSRP are almost rare and far between or almost non-existent.
Today's sales people earn a living off their $200 mini-deals and bonuses. At a dealership I know well, the average salesperson is selling 20 high end cars a month at $200 a pop, on average, but makes another $2500+ on bonus and spiffs. Sales people in many dealerships receive $250-$500 a month if their CSI is at 95% or better. I used to earn $250 a month in bonus if I received 6 or more perfdct surveys and no bad surveys below 90%.
Not easy these days to make a living in the car business. The hours are awful and often you need to make a delivery on your day off.
*jmonroe, I just remembered another story that happened about 6 months after I starting working as a salesperson in that high end dealership I mentioned in my prior post.
I was working the afternoon/evening shift one Friday night (can't understand how I could remember it was a Friday night, but it definitely was), when a heavy set 35 or something man walked into the showroom. He wanted to buy a car that he saw at another dealership, but the other dealership didn't have the color or interior he wanted, and we had several. He took a car for a test drive with me and fell in love with it. Upon returning to the dealership, we sat down and I began to get all the paperwork ready for the start of negotiations when he tells me that he has been shopping at other dealerships and wants our best price.
I went to the sales manager at the desk and he gives me this number to take out to the guy. It was full MSRP! I told the manager he would walk out if I presented this number. The manager told me if he did start to leave, to give him this other number on another piece of paper, which was $2300 BELOW DEALER INVOICE! I responded again and said, "...what if he decided to buy the car at that number?" The manager responded, "...Mike, he's just in here late at night and it's after closing time, and he just wants to bust our b-lls!" I again reiterated to him that what if he should want the deal? He said to me, "...don't worry, he won't, but if I'm wrong and he accepts the deal, we'll have to sell the car to him at that price. I just want to get this guy out of here so we can close up!"
I go back outside to the showroom and present the MSRP price. He looks at me and says, "...that's your lowest price? Are you kidding. That's full sticker!" So as he gets up to leave, and knowing my manager would hit the ceiling if I didn't do what he told me to do (besides he was standing on a corner of the showroom with he keys out getting ready to lock up the showroom), I said, "...wait a minute. Here's my final price, take it or leave it!" He takes one look at the price +++ (plus tax, title fees and dealer fees which were about $399 back then), and says to me, "...get the car ready, I'm going home in it!"
I walk over to the manager, told him what had occurred, and he said good, sell him the "f---en" car and let's get out of here.
I finally got out of there at midnight after delivering the car to him and going over all the features and equipment.
Next morning, I walk in at 8:30 AM, my regular time for Saturday, and notice that the manager I dealt with last night hadn't gotten in yet. We always had a sales meeting on Saturday mornings at 8:30 AM, so I walked over to the meeting and sat down. The General Manager of the dealership stood up and said, "...Mike, stand up and tell us what happened here last night with your sales manager and the customer you sold the car to! So, I stood up and recounted the happenings as I recounted them to you above. After I finished my presentation, which took about 4 minutes, he told me to sit down and thanked me for doing exactly what the manager had told me to do. Then he looked up at the sales people (about 35 of us, that's how big this dealership was) and said, "...NOW, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHY THIS MANAGER NO LONGER WORKS FOR THIS DEALERSHIP!!!!!?"
This is a true story and happened exactly like I told it. So, you never know when you walk into a dealership if you are going to get that "out of the blue good deal, or even STUPENDOUS deal!
Any commissions based on "net profit" is a slippery slope as the profit margin is getting thinner and thinner these days.
*bwia, one more bit of information about profit margins getting thinner and thinner these day. You are correct, the difference between MSRP and dealer cost and factory invoice is, in fact, getting closer and closer, averaging about 7% for most manufacturers. That's compared to 12 to 20% 20 + years ago. I remember that Mercedes Benz in the 1980's had a 20% mark up on all of its cars. I know, because I bought one at invoice, a 300SDL in 1987 for $40,000 + tax and fees and the MSRP was $50,000.
But there's a change in the way dealers are reimbursed for the loss in the mark ups or margins. As an example, a dealership can be given cash incentives amounting to up to $1000 per car for CSI above a certain % for new car sales and service customers, for meeting and/or beating your sales goals for the month, for bringing in loan and lease business to the financial arms of the manufacturer, just to name a few. A dealership might not get the full $1000, but can qualify for amounts up to that.
Unfortuately, the salesperson does not get to share in that money. Also, any dealer fees charged (especially here in Florida) are not made part of the grosss profit for a a car in most dealerhips.
So, we sure don't want to get to sympathetic for the dealerships who are still making as much, if not more, on the adjusted reimbursements and incentives. If these dealerships weren't making the same kinds of money they used to, they wouldn't be in business. They just make it or earn it differently.
I know I could never survive as a sales person in a new car dealership today. Long hours, horrible income, and all the hate and discontent from customers and managers. Not a fun job, but I guess in this eonomy with car sales being the only bright spot in our awful economy, a job is still a job!
I really like the style of that Mini Cooper S Countryman. It looks great in black. It seems like the perfect vehicle for running around town, or even on two or three hour trips. I would imagine that it is excellent on gas, right? Hope your offer is accepted; it seems very reasonable to me. Good luck.
You have a memory like a steel trap! That was an excellent summary. Heck, I spent two days trying to catch up on the two weeks that I missed. From now on, I'll just ask you to bring me up to date. You are now the official keeper of "Edmund's Diary".
Anyone who thinks we didn't have universal health care before Obama is kidding themselves.
This is true, my sisters step daughter has a server case of lupis (it almost killed her) and she had bills exceeding $1 million which was all covered by public aid.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Mike....interesting insight on the innerworkings of car sales. Thanks for that. I find it fascinating. I tend to deal with "veteran" sales people. My Acura sales person has been at the same dealership for 17 years. My BMW dealership has been at the sale BMW dealership for 14 years.
They know and appreciate the fact that I'm not going to waste their time, nor will I let them waste mine.
I'm a quick deal. Even dealing for my SO's Audi, at a dealership I'd never been to, in a city that I'd never bought a car before. I got to the dealership at 10:30 a.m., on a Saturday. And, I told the sales person I'd be out of there by noon, either with a new car, or with the car I drove up in. I handed him the deal sheet I prepared.
"Either we make this deal, or we don't." It doesn't matter one way or the other, and either way, you'll quickly be on to your next customer."
I think that my plumbing problem out shines yours a bit. They unclogged the main line from the house to the street. Due to tree roots coming out with the "snake" each time, they have now concluded that I must replace the pipe from my house to the street---a $2,000 job, not counting putting the landscaped award winning lawn back in shape.
Things are running fine right now. I wonder if they are just guessing that the tree roots have cracked or broken the pipe? After all, that is an expensive guess. On top of that, I read my home warranty booklet and even consulted with them by telephone. They won't pay for the pipe when tree roots are involved. They did pay for the $250 unclog. I've never had much success with these home warranty packages. They either won't cover the problem or they send some jackleg who does cheap bidding to get the business. I'm calling in my own plumber tomorrow for a second opinion. I wish that my Edmund's plumber friends were here. i could trust you guys.
We still love this old barn. We've owned plenty of older homes, so these kinds of problems are not foreign to us. To be perfectly honest, this is our favorite house yet. It was so well built in 1950 with such wonderful materials, and the design is just beautiful.
Richard, when I read the first line of your post, what I expected to follow was a discussion of your leaking bladder or prostrate or kidneys, but you disappointed me. You set me up for the fall, so to speak!
So, we sure don't want to get to sympathetic for the dealerships who are still making as much, if not more, on the adjusted reimbursements and incentives. If these dealerships weren't making the same kinds of money they used to, they wouldn't be in business. They just make it or earn it differently.
Thanks for your honesty. I know more about the car biz today than I did before I got here in July of 2005 but I knew enough even then to know that if the dealership wasn’t making money on the sale, not necessarily money on the car they just sold you, they “wouldn’t be in business”, as you said.
I have read a few posts here over the years where the posters have said they wanted to leave enough profit in the deal just to be fair to the salesman. I’m sorry but I can’t think like that when I’m at the negotiating table. It’s hard enough for me to keep my brain working on my side of the table so I know I can’t let it work the other side too. The people in the biz are big boys/girls so I have to give them credit for knowing how to make a living. Call me hard but that’s the way I think when I’m buying a car.
If you care to, go look at post 2599 over in the now retired forum “Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories”, I made about buying my first Hyundai. The infamous ’05 XG350 that blew an engine in November 2011. Long story short, the dealer made money on bonuses, at least that’s what I think, but to be hard about this again, I really don’t care.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well, since a Sebring convertible wasn't good enough to carry you home, I'll just cancel my trip to New York. Driver can have the pleasure of picking you up.
Seriously, we're all so happy to hear the news. I'm so proud of the good fight that you have waged---all done with a positive attitude and a sense of humor. I think that "Hero" is a good word to use here.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I've been down the bladder, prostate, and kidney roads previously. The guys here remember my prostate scare. I much prefer to have the house plumbing problem! It's also much cheaper.
I wish that my Edmund's plumber friends were here. i could trust you guys.
When I was in my first house I had tree roots from my neighbors Weeping Willow about 35 feet away that got into my main drain line. After, I rented a commercial heavy duty electric snake (probably what your plumber used) 3 times, I went next door and told the guy he had to do something about his tree. He was very appreciative because he said he had been having problems with his drain and had a plumber come over at least 5 times to unclog his drain but the plumber never said anything to him about roots. My neighbor just thought it was his kids clogging up the drain and he was blaming them. I guess you could say the plumber wasn’t going to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs. My neighbor got rid of the tree and neither one of us had another problem after that. So I’ve come to learn, Weeping Willows will send out roots to almost no limit to find water and that seemed to be the case for both me and my neighbor.
You said your house was built in 1950. I built my first house in 1969. That was a time before they used plastic pipe like they do today. Back then and surely for you in 1950, terra cotta pipe in 2 or 3 foot sections was used. If the pipe didn’t crack from settling over time then they surely opened up at the tar joints where they were coupled together. You mentioned award winning landscaping so I have to believe you do in fact have a root problem and the best way to permanently solve that is to go through the expense of having the line replaced with the heavy walled ABS plastic that they use today. Be sure it’s ABS and heavy walled like schedule 80. Schedule 40 will work but 80 is better and if you're going to have it done sch. 80 does not cost that much more. The labor should be the same. Talk it over with your plumber. ABS is Black not white or off white like PVC or CPVC which should definitely not be used.
As far as those home Warranty Policies I don’t get them. They have more holes than a 12 inch strainer but maybe you can get something out of it at some point.
Good luck.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, Richard, it sure is! I was not trying to get personal or snotty, for sure. It's just funny how you opened your post response - I started laughing as I re-read that first line several times.
I remember back about 20 years ago when I had some problems with my house plumbing. Every time we had heavy rains, my sump pump almost never stopped running. It was very strange since the sump pump was just trying to pimp out the foundation water. I had the sewer line routed several times, but it always started again.
Finally, I had a contractor out. He said I probably had a break in the line at the street where my plumbing emptied into the main city line. They back-hoed the parkway area and found that when the builder covered the junction with backfill, a large rock broke the connection. It cost me $3500 to have the problem fixed, and that was big money back on the 1980's. It was actually the fault of the city inspector since they had no record of a plumbing inspection having been done prior to the backfill. So, the city gave me back $2000 since they could not prove that an inspection had been done and to avoid my taking them to court. I just got lucky my attorney asked the city for a copy of the inspection. They probably never inspected the junction.
I'm with you. Most of the dealers near me keep expanding and building new palaces, so they have to be turning a profit.
and to be cruel, it is not my problem or concern if the salesperson how or if the salesperson is getting compensated. that is between him/her and the dealership. But, I have no doubt that the principals are making money, and probably figuring how to screw the salesguy out of everything possible!
in my recent looking for a wife mobile, I heard (on the RDX thread here) that a dealer in Jersey (about 1.5-2 hours from me) was offering crazy prices. To the extent that posters were crying foul. So, asked for an internet quote, did some follow up for the details, and darned if they aren't blowing out the new models at below invoice (per Edmunds) cost. Plus no extras or gimmicks.
are they making or losing money? damned if I know, or really care. I just know that they are offering to sell me a car at a lower than expected price, of their own free will. So I would be happy to take it. I think they are just trying to buy volume now, but that works to my benefit!
Of course I will take the email with the internet quote to my local dealer (if we decide to buy one of these) and ask if they want to match it. if not, I'll go on a road trip. But again, up to them and free will to take or leave it.
Sounds like one of those British soap operas that are on as fillers on PBS stations when I'm wanting to see practical things like This Old House Visits, etc.
Comments
That's an inside joke. AFAIK Isell is still retired and hangs out elsewhere on Edmunds. I was just replying to him in another thread.
Holy CRAP!!!! It is pretty sizzling out there today. Stay cool everyone.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
We need some of that cool air from Canada. Can Drive100 sends up a few thousand cubic miles of cool air?
I remember going to Sault St. Marie weekend before July 4 to ride the excursion train on into Canada. We rode the sight-seeing boat through the locks the next morning and I happened to have my medium winter jacket in the car and it was NOT heavy enough. Temp must have been down near freezing. I want that kind of air!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
fez- Congrats! Sounds like you are getting some serious treatment.
jmonroe- Thanks for the links. I'll check out that story out when I have some time for quality reading. But what's this about a discount? When Kirstie suggested I come back and visit, she told me that I needed to pay all my back dues! It took me a week of negotiations, but I got her down to 50%, an extra key, and she threw in floor mats.
And which one of you yahoos ticked off isell so that he won't come around any more???
If she does beat this thing (I'm big in her corner) I think it is worth more in bragging rights that a few million.
Of course in the real world hospitals are required to treat patients and worry about the money later. Anyone who thinks we didn't have universal health care before Obama is kidding themselves. We just had a lousy system. The new one isn't where we need to be but at least it will get more people covered rather than essentially passing the billing over to the companies already insuring you and me and raising those rates.
Hmmm, never thought of that. Will mention to the doctor when I see him next that your brother contracted that. I'm still having a few problems breathing every so often so I use an inhaler the doctor prescribed. Also still breaking out in night sweats, but no fever. I'm supposed to get another chest X-ray next Friday to see if the pneumonia has subsided.
Maybe it was 2005 when Wilma hit us. All I know is Wilma was supposed to hit us as a weak category 1 hurricane, but when she hit us, she was a category 3.
Thanks for your thoughts regarding my health, and also for proving to me that I'm getting old and can't remember one year from the next.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
$4 million...ouch !! That is why those with insurance pay $100. for an aspirin and $50. for a kleenex.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yeh, sure, when it is broiling down there you want us to send you some cold air, when it is freezing cold you blame us for it.
Temperature here was 96 yesterday, so I can't help you anyway. Usually that warm air comes up from your way (Note, I didn't say hot air), and this time it got here via Chicago.
Sault Ste Marie is in a much cooler area, above Lake Superior, so that's quite a ways North of Toronto. We are pretty similar to maybe Chicago in Latitude.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Glad to hear it! See, if you give the nurses enough trouble they try to get you out as soon as possible!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
When we got there, our tickets wouldn't scan through, so we ended up having to wait a permission to go in for over 1/2 an hour.
The game had already started by the time we got to our seat, but good news was that the bases were loaded for the Yankees.
The seats were great, right behind home plate, 3 rows back.
Got lots of phones from people who could see me on tv.
In addition, the people to my right were a family that lives in the same town and I knew from church and socially. They are Yankee fans, so that made it even better.
My first call was from my wife, 'Are you sitting next to Ann... and her family?'
Yup, that's them.
Later on, the ladies' brother called her and said to her, 'Who's that guy next to you? You two seem to be having little too much fun'.
One of the unoffical rules we learned about was no talking on the phone during the game.
Texting is ok because you can hold the phone out of sight.
I waited until play was over until looking at my messages of talking on the phone, except one time, the conversation went on a bit long.
When I looked up, the batter was stepping into the batter's box, but the home plate umpire was turned around glaring at me. :surprise:
What a great experience.
I don’t know what hospital you were at but my brother was at the Delray Beach Hospital (I’m pretty sure that was the name of the hospital). He went there when he wasn’t feeling well at the insistence of my SIL. He was admitted and they thought it was the regular strain of pneumonia and he was given whatever they give you for that but when he didn’t respond to that like he should have (about the second day) they brought in some infectious disease experts and the next day they had it diagnosed as Legionnaires Disease. They gave him some designer drugs made for that and that did it, although he was there about a week.
Like ‘richard’ said earlier, there is an answer for most everything, so if they haven’t gotten you back to normal by now it would be worth mentioning the bit about Legionnaires Disease. It can’t hurt.
…and also for proving to me that I'm getting old and can't remember one year from the next.
Don’t feel bad, I’ve been accused of having CRS disease for a few years lately myself.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
stopped at my Acura dealer to see a used BMW X3. which of course was outside, and I spotted it when we parked. So, dragged the wife and daughter over to check it out. Turned out to be a dud. dark silver was not a winner, and the black interior did not.
plus, my wife looked inside and saw the normal wear and tear, and pointed out that it was "all marked up". so, the used option is off the table (she would just keep her van instead). She wants her mid-life treat, and it needs to be new (the car, not me...)
So, we scoped out a few new RDXs in the row. all black, which seems to be the vast majority of what is out there. But, there was an ILX next to them in a color the wife had been waiting to see ("amber brownstone", a sort of grayish tan). turns out, she was not all that fond of it afterall, but did like the dark gray RDX we saw going out for a test drive ("graphite lustre I think).
oh, the good day part? If you want to look at the stock outside in peace, a day like today was even better than going on a Sunday when they are closed! Not a chance in the world that a salesperson was coming out to accost you today.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
One of my pet peeves regarding car salespeople is that they just don't allow a customer to browse a used or new car lot unaccosted. So when I became a sales manager, I made it clear that a customer is not a customer until he/she entered the dealership through the front door. Then, and only then, we're they to be greeted. It was the sales manager's responsibility to enforce this policy.
Thus, I had a sign made up to be posted at all entrances to the new and used car lots informing prospective customers that they were free to browse the inventory without disruption from a salesperson and if they needed any assistance to please come to the showroom. I received outstanding and positive feedback from our customers that they appreciated the company's professionalism and sensitivity.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I really like that policy. I sometimes just want to look around without being hounded. I think clothing stores learned this lesson, they used to pounce on you as soon as you entered the store.
Now, they usually greet you and say something like if you need help just ask.
I learned in a sales course not to ask a customer a "yes" or "no" question because that just requires one answer and the discussion is closed. But, a question that gets the customer talking is better, "What kind of cars were you looking for today?".
I think letting customers look around is good, people like to browse and not have to defend themselves initially. If a customer is interested he will go in and ask for help.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I love that policy. There aren't many out there like you, that is for sure.
BTW, out and about tonight I saw the new GS in person. I like it a lot. It was white/beige. What color did you get?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I don't mind being approached and asked if I need help- but if I'm truly just browsing I expect to be left alone after the initial contact.
That said, an Ohio BMW dealer lost an easy and lucrative sale back in 2006 when I went to their lot with cash in hand to buy one of two CPO 540i Spors they had in their inventory.t. Not only was I ignored while checking out the cars on the lot, I couldn't find anyone to help me in the CPO showroom either. After fifteen minutes of being ignored we left- never to return. They should have known I wasn't a stroke; I showed up with my wife and son in the 2004 X3. Perhaps my BMW F1 windbreaker didn't meet their dress code.
Morons.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Funny thing to me, over the years the only place where I really found myself completely ignored, even though I was standing in the showroom obviously looking around for a person to talk to, and nothing, was at a Chevy dealer. a couple of times. Even when I finally headed to the door, nothing.
maybe they knew there was really no chance I was going to buy a chevy?
conversely, when I walked into a high end store, I was treated like royalty. BMW< Volvo, etc.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Well, I didn't end up calling him back but htree years later I married his daughter.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Good deal! A lot better than a K Car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The GS350 is "Nebula Gray" with that new "Flaxen Analine Perforated" leather (a dark saddle color).
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I can see that too, no harm in asking but salesmen should let you look if that is all you want to do.
This new state of the art Mercedes place openned in town. The cars outside are in pools of water, there is a coffee shop, the service area is immaculate, they have a nail and beauty salon, coffee bar etc. We sat in about 10 different cars in the showroom and not a salesman approached.
It didn't matter, model for model, we liked bmws and Audis more. We could tell from just sitting in the cars how it felt. I was glad we didn't have to deal with a salesperson.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I guess that was before you were a member here and didn't know car shopping is a serious business and is not to be taken lightly. Sometimes out of the blue you get a good deal.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But was there a documentation fee? ADM? Is it a lease or permanent deal? And warranty?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
27 years and still going fine....
Sometimes, but certainly not always, to be sure.
When I was working at a luxury brand dealership as a salesman (first time I worked in the car business after retiring from education), the sales manager told me when I started that the less you know about invoices, costs, leases, etc., the more I would make in this business. I couldn't figure out why he said that at the time, so I just forgot about it.
About two months later, on New Years Eve, a couple came into the showroom looking for a new coupe convertible. The wanted a specific color and interior, which I saw come off a transport truck the day before. Luckily for me, it was available even though there was a short supply of them due to its popularity (there was a waiting list for orders and deliveries, but this was a very unpopular color). He wanted to lease it for 60 months and his credit was less than glowing, but OK.
After a demo drive he said he wanted the car NOW to take his wife to a big New Years bash later that evening. We went into ghe showroom, started paperwork for credit and negotiating, and then went to the manager. He wrote down a monthly lease payment on my sheet and told me to present it to the customer. I did what he said (payment was $1125 per month with $3800 down - car MSRP'd at $68,750 which 10 years ago was a lot of money, needless to say). He looked at it and said it was way more than he thought it would be. I reminded him that his credit score was 688 which meant he could not get the best rate available in terms of money factor, which was true, and that there was a waiting list for this car but luckily he came to the biggest dealership in the country where we get additional allocations, which was also true. He gave me a counter offer of $1100 a month with $2500 down. I took his offer to the manager who accepted the offer and told me to get the car ready for delivery and finish the paperwork.
After delivering the new car, the manager calls me into the main office. He asked me what I thought my commission was on this leased convertible. I said I didn't know. But the average commission was about $1800, but since we accepted his reduced counter offer, I guessed it would be closer to $1500. He laughed and said to me, "...remember what I told you when you started with us a few months ago that the less you know about costs, etc., the more you would make?". I responded yes and he said I had made a commission of over $5300 because they leased the car for over MSRP. I nearly passed out. I also felt guilty about selling a car for so much over MSRP. He told me that the customer knew how difficult it was to get a convertible and that the customer let his emotions take control of his wallet. To this day, I still feel guilt over that deal.
So, the moral of this story is that not all deals are out of the blue!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Nice sales story.
And all this time I thought the average commission on a typical new car sale was about $200 and perhaps slightly higher for luxury models. Does anybody really know how salesmen/women are compensated?
As to guilt, my most recent salesman did not feel any guilt when our agreed transaction price turned out to be much different from what I had bargained for.
We had agreed on invoice plus $500. But that invoice price turned out to be very different from Edmunds and in the end the final price was only $200 below MRSP. Yet I thought he was one of the most pleasant salesmen I had ever met. So much so that I always visited with him when I brought my car in for service. Unfortunately he died unexpectedly a few weeks ago.
The story I just related took place over 10 years ago. At that time, my average commission was $350 per new car sold. Most of my deals netted me $200, but on newly introduced models that were "hot", I could make upwards of $2000. But it all averaged out at about $350.
Sales people earn about 25% commission on the first 8 or so units sold in a calendar month on the NET PROFIT of any car they sell. After 8 units sold in a month, commission goes up to 30% and then to 35%, depending on total units sold in a given month. If I sold 35 cars a month, commission on the 1st and 2nd tier levels were increased to the highest %age I was eligible for. Then, there were special bonuses paid called "spiffs" for selling x number of cars on a weekend or for selling used cars on the lot that had aged 30 days since taken in trade.
Each dealership pays commissions in a similar manner, but not exactly as I was paid. Also, if there was low net profit on the sale, I was paid a mini-commission of $200 per car
The profit on a car is determined differently at each dealership. For example, let's say the gross on a new car sold is $1900. First, a "house pack" is deducted from that figure, usually about $600 for prep, used car inspections, gasoline for demo drives, interest on inventory (called floor plan), to name a few. Each dealership is different, so I can't speak for all of them.
I hope this answered your question.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That was my belly laugh for the day. Good one. You get the blue ribbon for the best crack of the day!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks for the insight and yes you have answered my question. And Wow! the car biz seems really tough. Any commissions based on "net profit" is a slippery slope as the profit margin is getting thinner and thinner these days.
That's for sure! Sales people in the car business are becoming less and less reliant on commission percentages and are geared/attuned to reaching sales targets to earn bonuses and special spiffs. The only way a sales person can earn a living on commissions only is to work for Porsche, Ferrari, Rolls, Bentley, etc., where discounts off MSRP are almost rare and far between or almost non-existent.
Today's sales people earn a living off their $200 mini-deals and bonuses. At a dealership I know well, the average salesperson is selling 20 high end cars a month at $200 a pop, on average, but makes another $2500+ on bonus and spiffs. Sales people in many dealerships receive $250-$500 a month if their CSI is at 95% or better. I used to earn $250 a month in bonus if I received 6 or more perfdct surveys and no bad surveys below 90%.
Not easy these days to make a living in the car business. The hours are awful and often you need to make a delivery on your day off.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
*jmonroe, I just remembered another story that happened about 6 months after I starting working as a salesperson in that high end dealership I mentioned in my prior post.
I was working the afternoon/evening shift one Friday night (can't understand how I could remember it was a Friday night, but it definitely was), when a heavy set 35 or something man walked into the showroom. He wanted to buy a car that he saw at another dealership, but the other dealership didn't have the color or interior he wanted, and we had several. He took a car for a test drive with me and fell in love with it. Upon returning to the dealership, we sat down and I began to get all the paperwork ready for the start of negotiations when he tells me that he has been shopping at other dealerships and wants our best price.
I went to the sales manager at the desk and he gives me this number to take out to the guy. It was full MSRP! I told the manager he would walk out if I presented this number. The manager told me if he did start to leave, to give him this other number on another piece of paper, which was $2300 BELOW DEALER INVOICE! I responded again and said, "...what if he decided to buy the car at that number?" The manager responded, "...Mike, he's just in here late at night and it's after closing time, and he just wants to bust our b-lls!" I again reiterated to him that what if he should want the deal? He said to me, "...don't worry, he won't, but if I'm wrong and he accepts the deal, we'll have to sell the car to him at that price. I just want to get this guy out of here so we can close up!"
I go back outside to the showroom and present the MSRP price. He looks at me and says, "...that's your lowest price? Are you kidding. That's full sticker!" So as he gets up to leave, and knowing my manager would hit the ceiling if I didn't do what he told me to do (besides he was standing on a corner of the showroom with he keys out getting ready to lock up the showroom), I said, "...wait a minute. Here's my final price, take it or leave it!" He takes one look at the price +++ (plus tax, title fees and dealer fees which were about $399 back then), and says to me, "...get the car ready, I'm going home in it!"
I walk over to the manager, told him what had occurred, and he said good, sell him the "f---en" car and let's get out of here.
I finally got out of there at midnight after delivering the car to him and going over all the features and equipment.
Next morning, I walk in at 8:30 AM, my regular time for Saturday, and notice that the manager I dealt with last night hadn't gotten in yet. We always had a sales meeting on Saturday mornings at 8:30 AM, so I walked over to the meeting and sat down. The General Manager of the dealership stood up and said, "...Mike, stand up and tell us what happened here last night with your sales manager and the customer you sold the car to! So, I stood up and recounted the happenings as I recounted them to you above. After I finished my presentation, which took about 4 minutes, he told me to sit down and thanked me for doing exactly what the manager had told me to do. Then he looked up at the sales people (about 35 of us, that's how big this dealership was) and said, "...NOW, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHY THIS MANAGER NO LONGER WORKS FOR THIS DEALERSHIP!!!!!?"
This is a true story and happened exactly like I told it. So, you never know when you walk into a dealership if you are going to get that "out of the blue good deal, or even STUPENDOUS deal!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
*bwia, one more bit of information about profit margins getting thinner and thinner these day. You are correct, the difference between MSRP and dealer cost and factory invoice is, in fact, getting closer and closer, averaging about 7% for most manufacturers. That's compared to 12 to 20% 20 + years ago. I remember that Mercedes Benz in the 1980's had a 20% mark up on all of its cars. I know, because I bought one at invoice, a 300SDL in 1987 for $40,000 + tax and fees and the MSRP was $50,000.
But there's a change in the way dealers are reimbursed for the loss in the mark ups or margins. As an example, a dealership can be given cash incentives amounting to up to $1000 per car for CSI above a certain % for new car sales and service customers, for meeting and/or beating your sales goals for the month, for bringing in loan and lease business to the financial arms of the manufacturer, just to name a few. A dealership might not get the full $1000, but can qualify for amounts up to that.
Unfortuately, the salesperson does not get to share in that money. Also, any dealer fees charged (especially here in Florida) are not made part of the grosss profit for a a car in most dealerhips.
So, we sure don't want to get to sympathetic for the dealerships who are still making as much, if not more, on the adjusted reimbursements and incentives. If these dealerships weren't making the same kinds of money they used to, they wouldn't be in business. They just make it or earn it differently.
I know I could never survive as a sales person in a new car dealership today. Long hours, horrible income, and all the hate and discontent from customers and managers. Not a fun job, but I guess in this eonomy with car sales being the only bright spot in our awful economy, a job is still a job!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Richard
Richard
This is true, my sisters step daughter has a server case of lupis (it almost killed her) and she had bills exceeding $1 million which was all covered by public aid.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Acura sales person has been at the same dealership for 17 years. My BMW dealership has been at the sale BMW dealership for 14 years.
They know and appreciate the fact that I'm not going to waste their time, nor will I let them waste mine.
I'm a quick deal. Even dealing for my SO's Audi, at a dealership I'd never been to, in a city that I'd never bought a car before. I got to the dealership at 10:30 a.m., on a Saturday. And, I told the sales person I'd be out of there by noon, either with a new car, or with the car I drove up in. I handed him the deal sheet I prepared.
"Either we make this deal, or we don't." It doesn't matter one way or the other, and either way, you'll quickly be on to your next customer."
I drove away with 15 minutes to spare.
Things are running fine right now. I wonder if they are just guessing that the tree roots have cracked or broken the pipe? After all, that is an expensive guess. On top of that, I read my home warranty booklet and even consulted with them by telephone. They won't pay for the pipe when tree roots are involved. They did pay for the $250 unclog. I've never had much success with these home warranty packages. They either won't cover the problem or they send some jackleg who does cheap bidding to get the business. I'm calling in my own plumber tomorrow for a second opinion. I wish that my Edmund's plumber friends were here. i could trust you guys.
We still love this old barn. We've owned plenty of older homes, so these kinds of problems are not foreign to us. To be perfectly honest, this is our favorite house yet. It was so well built in 1950 with such wonderful materials, and the design is just beautiful.
Richard
We're just grateful that it's still running---like an old car that you just love.
It's good to hear from you again. Don't be such a stranger.
Richard
Richard, when I read the first line of your post, what I expected to follow was a discussion of your leaking bladder or prostrate or kidneys, but you disappointed me. You set me up for the fall, so to speak!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Thanks for your honesty. I know more about the car biz today than I did before I got here in July of 2005 but I knew enough even then to know that if the dealership wasn’t making money on the sale, not necessarily money on the car they just sold you, they “wouldn’t be in business”, as you said.
I have read a few posts here over the years where the posters have said they wanted to leave enough profit in the deal just to be fair to the salesman. I’m sorry but I can’t think like that when I’m at the negotiating table. It’s hard enough for me to keep my brain working on my side of the table so I know I can’t let it work the other side too. The people in the biz are big boys/girls so I have to give them credit for knowing how to make a living. Call me hard but that’s the way I think when I’m buying a car.
If you care to, go look at post 2599 over in the now retired forum “Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories”, I made about buying my first Hyundai. The infamous ’05 XG350 that blew an engine in November 2011. Long story short, the dealer made money on bonuses, at least that’s what I think, but to be hard about this again, I really don’t care.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Seriously, we're all so happy to hear the news. I'm so proud of the good fight that you have waged---all done with a positive attitude and a sense of humor. I think that "Hero" is a good word to use here.
Richard
Richard
When I was in my first house I had tree roots from my neighbors Weeping Willow about 35 feet away that got into my main drain line. After, I rented a commercial heavy duty electric snake (probably what your plumber used) 3 times, I went next door and told the guy he had to do something about his tree. He was very appreciative because he said he had been having problems with his drain and had a plumber come over at least 5 times to unclog his drain but the plumber never said anything to him about roots. My neighbor just thought it was his kids clogging up the drain and he was blaming them. I guess you could say the plumber wasn’t going to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs. My neighbor got rid of the tree and neither one of us had another problem after that. So I’ve come to learn, Weeping Willows will send out roots to almost no limit to find water and that seemed to be the case for both me and my neighbor.
You said your house was built in 1950. I built my first house in 1969. That was a time before they used plastic pipe like they do today. Back then and surely for you in 1950, terra cotta pipe in 2 or 3 foot sections was used. If the pipe didn’t crack from settling over time then they surely opened up at the tar joints where they were coupled together. You mentioned award winning landscaping so I have to believe you do in fact have a root problem and the best way to permanently solve that is to go through the expense of having the line replaced with the heavy walled ABS plastic that they use today. Be sure it’s ABS and heavy walled like schedule 80. Schedule 40 will work but 80 is better and if you're going to have it done sch. 80 does not cost that much more. The labor should be the same. Talk it over with your plumber. ABS is Black not white or off white like PVC or CPVC which should definitely not be used.
As far as those home Warranty Policies I don’t get them. They have more holes than a 12 inch strainer but maybe you can get something out of it at some point.
Good luck.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, Richard, it sure is! I was not trying to get personal or snotty, for sure. It's just funny how you opened your post response - I started laughing as I re-read that first line several times.
I remember back about 20 years ago when I had some problems with my house plumbing. Every time we had heavy rains, my sump pump almost never stopped running. It was very strange since the sump pump was just trying to pimp out the foundation water. I had the sewer line routed several times, but it always started again.
Finally, I had a contractor out. He said I probably had a break in the line at the street where my plumbing emptied into the main city line. They back-hoed the parkway area and found that when the builder covered the junction with backfill, a large rock broke the connection. It cost me $3500 to have the problem fixed, and that was big money back on the 1980's. It was actually the fault of the city inspector since they had no record of a plumbing inspection having been done prior to the backfill. So, the city gave me back $2000 since they could not prove that an inspection had been done and to avoid my taking them to court. I just got lucky my attorney asked the city for a copy of the inspection. They probably never inspected the junction.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
and to be cruel, it is not my problem or concern if the salesperson how or if the salesperson is getting compensated. that is between him/her and the dealership. But, I have no doubt that the principals are making money, and probably figuring how to screw the salesguy out of everything possible!
in my recent looking for a wife mobile, I heard (on the RDX thread here) that a dealer in Jersey (about 1.5-2 hours from me) was offering crazy prices. To the extent that posters were crying foul. So, asked for an internet quote, did some follow up for the details, and darned if they aren't blowing out the new models at below invoice (per Edmunds) cost. Plus no extras or gimmicks.
are they making or losing money? damned if I know, or really care. I just know that they are offering to sell me a car at a lower than expected price, of their own free will. So I would be happy to take it. I think they are just trying to buy volume now, but that works to my benefit!
Of course I will take the email with the internet quote to my local dealer (if we decide to buy one of these) and ask if they want to match it. if not, I'll go on a road trip. But again, up to them and free will to take or leave it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sounds like one of those British soap operas that are on as fillers on PBS stations when I'm wanting to see practical things like This Old House Visits, etc.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,