We have all experienced strange occurrences with at least one new car we've purchased in our lives. Whether the car was a lemon or had a strange sound or some other ominous quirk. When you work in the car business, stories always seem to circulate about these "gremlins" that seem to take a brand new car and make it act like it was 20 years old.
I remember one such experience when I first started working in the car business. We had a huge inventory of a mid sized SUV that was a tremendous seller for us. I had a young man come in and was interested in this particular vehicle, a mid sized SUV that MSRP'd at about $41,000. I went over the car with him on the showroom floor, pointing out all it's features and benefits. He wanted to test drive one do I pulled one up front for him to drive. We pulled out and about a block from the dealership, we switched seats so he could drive. About 5 minutes into the demo drive, we heard a loud noise coming from YHE front of the vehicle. He pulled over, and when we got out of the SUV, we saw a huge puddle of fluid pouring out of the engine compartment. I called the dealership on the cell phone and asked them to send over a tow truck and someone with another SUV so we could continue the demo drive. I explained to the customer that even though the SUV had been rated tops in its class, there is always one that breaks down because of one thing or another. He said no problem and about 10 minutes later, the tow truck arrives and a driver with another demo pulls up. (I'll tell you now that a transmission cooler line had come loose and was being hit by the fan, causing the line to break and lose transmission fluid).
After we finished the demo drive, he said he liked the vehicle and wanted to buy it if YHE price was right. I wrote up the preliminary paperwork and went to see the manager. I told him what had happened on the demo ride, so he discounted the SUV right off the bat by $3000, which was most of the profit in the vehicle. He told me to tell the customer that he was selling the vehicle at almost dealer invoice to make up for the bad experience. I did what the manager directed me to and the customer took the deal immediately! I then completed the paperwork and delivered the vehicle to the customer.
The very next day, I got a frantic call from the same customer telling me his brand new SUV was leaking this red fluid from under the engine and that the car could not be put into gear. Also, that a tow truck was bringing the car back to the dealership. When the vehicle arrived with the customer at the service department, the service manager said, after inspecting under the hood, that a transmission cooler line had snapped out of its housing and was leaking transmission fluid. The customer yells, "...BUT I JUST BOUGHT THIS CAR YESTERDAY! It has the same issue as the demo we drove yesterday!"
It seems that there had been a service advisory issued to inspect all vehicles of this model produced during a specific month for loose transmission cooler lines improperly assembled at the factory. Unfortunately, our service department had not gotten around to inspecting over half our inventory. Who new how many other vehicles were having the same problems.
The customer wanted his money back and, because the title work had not yet been processed, the customer got his check back with no questions asked.
They found 5 other SUV's with the same defect after inspecting the rest of the inventory. And of course, I was out a sale and my commission!
Yes, we've all been there at one time or another. After buying a brand new Porsche 944 Turbo back in the 1980's, I remember being dragged to Baily, Bittle and Banks (upscale jewelry store) in the Chicago suburbs and buying my lovely wife a Rolex ladies Date Just in gold and stainless steel. Ahhh, yes, those were the good old days!
I set up home theater systems for my friends all the time.
Do you also do plumbing for your friends. I was telling the guys at tennis about the $1000 bill to fix one pipe, for 3 hours work.
They thought it was ridiculous so I decided to call the customer service department of this company. I was very polite, I said they did a beautiful job, the fellow who worked on it was a professional, he diagnosed the problem and fixed it quickly, but it was a lot for 3 hours work.
She said they don't pay by the hour and that I agreed to the price. I explained that they were late and I had to have it fixed for Sunday, otherwise I would have got another offer.
She said she would take it to management and they would get back to me. I said, word of mouth is very important and I just talked to 16 guys who had played tennis that morning.
I mean, did you ever have a problem where the appraiser didn't value the car high enough for the customer, and it actually cost you a sale.
I really liked our BMW guy and I would have loved to buy my wife's car from him. The appraiser valued her trade in at $4000 less than I found it was worth online.
The salesman worked hard to notify us about the new models and let us test drive cars, and work out a price. But the appraisal guy blew the whole deal for him.
I feel really bad, but, glad she found a car she likes better. That must have really hurt....especially since you talked about the sales per month really affecting his pay.
When I counseled a student, and later teachers, I always sat in a chair beside them.
Less confrontational than sitting across from each other with a desk between you.
My wife and I needed a sandwich at a Tim Hortons place here. We asked for them to be made on whole wheat and waited by the counter.
Lots of people got their orders and i asked where ours were.
He said these were ours on white bread. I said we asked for whole wheat.
He said the computer screen says you ordered white bread. He wouldn't make us a whole wheat one because the computer screen said we ordered white. So, I asked to talk to the manager.
She came out, took us over to a table, and made certain she was sitting with us, around the table, not across from the table.
She asked what the problem was. I told her. She says the kid was new and won't last long. She gave us a free meal.
Not having a desk between you is a very friendly jesture.
It seems that there had been a service advisory issued to inspect all vehicles of this model produced during a specific month for loose transmission cooler lines improperly assembled at the factory. Unfortunately, our service department had not gotten around to inspecting over half our inventory. Who new how many other vehicles were having the same problems.
They found 5 other SUV's with the same defect after inspecting the rest of the inventory. And of course, I was out a sale and my commission!
This is something I just don’t understand about the car biz. The manufacture finds a problem and notifies the dealerships but these bulletins are not given the attention they deserve. How hard can it be to put a sheet on the windshield and on the dash/steering column where you insert the key/push the button warning the person that the car has to be inspected for a notification prior to sale? Hell, the keys should be put in a locked cabinet that only the sales manager/service manager has access to. All this does is give a bad rap to the manufacture, the car, the dealership and at the end of the line, a salesman like you loses a sale.
Something tells me that after this occurrence the dealership must have put a new policy in place regarding bulletins. If they didn’t then the problem can only be repeated.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
and in this case, most likely the guy went elsewhere, and bought a unit that had exactly the same problem (but fixed before he got it) and paid a lot more for it.
Of course, *driver. It's happened loads of times when I was a salesperson and because the used car manager under appraised my customer's trade, I lost the sale.
But when I went into management and I started appraising cars, I used a very methodical system to value a trade and rarely lost a sale because of what I put on a car:
*look the car up on Manheim and see what the car was wholesaling at *look the car up in Black Book and see what they had to say about it's value *determine if I was going to wholesale the car or keep it on my lot *run a CARFAX on the car to check for titled date, accidents, repairs and service history
Then I put a value on the trade. If the customer balked, I would bring him/her over to my computer and pull up the CARFAX, the Manheim results, and show Black Book estimates. That was all I usually had to do to close the trade part of the sale.
But there are always those customers who think their trade is worth it's weight in gold, and those people are lost causes. I can't value a trade at retail, which is what some people wanted me to do. So, I then said I would give them retail value for their trade, but then they had to give me sticker for the new car. Or, I would tell them to sell the car privately, but shows them the sales taxes they would have to pay without the trade. Even then, some customers thought their trades were so valuable that the Smithsonian Institute should buy it.
*driver, in other words sometimes you just can't give a customer everything they want for their car because you would be better off not selling them a car. I don't know how or why your BMW dealership arrived at $20,000 for your trade and Audi gave you $24,000. It is quite possible there were heavy incentives available on the Audi so he could "show" more for your car, but it is very odd that there was a $4000 difference on valuation from one dealer to another - very odd!!!
From my recollection of the story, that would have been very doubtful, *stickguy! If memory serves me right, he used just about every expletive in the known English language, an some from the "unknown" English language as he was leaving the dealership. Nope, I'm willing to bet all my sales plaques and trophies that he didn't buy a vehicle from this manufacturer.
I told this story about a month ago, but when we were looking to trade my wife's 3 Series, the local Audi dealer offered $1,000 under auction price while our BMW dealer made a buy offer of $1,500 over auction price- in other words, they would give us that amount whether we bought another car from them or not. Needless to say, that left a bad taste in our mouth with respect to the Audi dealer. That said, they've apparently cleaned up their act, as the Audi salesperson working with us on the Mini Cooper has been very pleasant and professional.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Still on the truck hunt, and came across this Frontier on craigslist. I mostly moved on from the Fronty, but this price seems really aggressive. My first reaction was its a combo of rebates that no one person actually qualifies for, but looking at incentives section on edmunds, there aren't THAT many incentives available, or at least listed. MSRP is $31440, with edmunds listing invoice as $29055 as spec'd. Not sure if it fits the bill or not for me, but might be worth investigating.
I would do the same if it was a used car of the brand I sell.
No doubt; but I expected a more realistic offer from the Audi store- as I stated in my original post, I would have bought the A4 I was looking at if they had merely offered me the auction price for the 3er.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
There is but one day in my short career selling cars that I will never forget. It was the best of days and it was the worst of days!
The busiest time of the year for car sales used to be the month of December. I believe this is still true today, but when I was selling cars, December was a killer month. I remember this day was on a Friday, the day before Christmas Eve Day in the mid 2000's. All the manufacturers have special incentives for the final month of the year called "The Winter Sales Event", "The December To Remember Sales Event", "The December Opportunity Sales Event", or some other event that is run in December.
I arrived at the dealership at 8:00 AM as I had an early appointment. I worked with the customer and succeeded in selling him a new mid sized sedan - not much gross so it was a mini deal with minimum commission. By the time I did all the paperwork and delivered the car. It was 10:30 AM. He left very happy, and as I was walking back to the showroom, I met another customer who was looking for the flagship sedan, of which we had a shortage for some reason. We had only 5 on stock and he wanted one right away. I showed him what I had and he settled on a Black Cherry sedan that MSRP'd at $68,800. I told him I couldn't discount the car because of the limited availability, but he didn't care so long as he could take it home that day. So, he bought the car and paid cash for it. He got $500 off sticker, so I made a nice commission.
At 1:30 PM, a friend of my Dad came in and wanted the newly introduced SUV. I showed him what I had in inventory and after test driving a black one, I sold it to him at $1200 under sticker, which was a great deal considering the vehicle had come out only the month before. By 3:45 PM, I had delivered my 3rd vehicle for the day.
I went back on the floor and the greeter gave me a customer who was looking for two cars - one for his son and one for his daughter. His children were not with him, but he knew exactly what they wanted - identical cars but in different colors. We went out to the new car lot and he found just what he wanted for then - two smaller sedans, one with a 5-speed and one with an automatic. We went back inside and since he was buying two cars, I got him a price of $500 over invoice for each. We wrote up the two cars, got him through finance, and I drove one of them up to his home in Delray Beach and he followed me with the other new car. We then were driven back to the dealership by his wife where he picked up his car and they both went home.
It was 7:30 PM by the time I got to my office. The showroom was jammed with customers waiting for a salesperson. I was supposed to leave at 6:00 PM, but the general manager asked me to just take one of the waiting customers before I left.
I was introduced to this delightful retired widow who lived in the same condo development as I did. We shared some stories while we were looking on the new car lot for a new car for her. I landed her on a car that she really liked, test drive it, and went back to the showroom. I began negotiations and had her trade appraised. I barely made it back to the desk as I was ready to fall on my face I was so exhausted. Yo make a long story a little shorter, I sold the car and made a nice commission. After delivering the car, I trudged back to the showroom to put the paperwork in the sold box. I was so exhausted (it was now 10:30 PM) I couldn't think of driving home. I called a cab and went straight home.
So, I had concluded the best and the worst day of my car selling career - the best in that I had sold and delivered 6 new cars in one day - and the worst day in that I was so beat and stressed, I had quit my job working for that dealership before taking a cab home! The car business is a very tough business, but it can sure get to you.
I am assuming the BMW dealer offered you more for you BMW because he sells BMW's! I would do the same if it was a used car of the brand I sell.
In my case the Audi dealer gave me more, much more than the bmw dealer...and I am pretty sure I know why.
The BMW dealer claims they would have to put $4000 into the car, then try to make $4000 on it. They may have to warrranty it if the customer buying it wants it certified.
The Audi sales manager has more freedom to act. He'll take the car, and put it on the lot and make a few $1000 on it, and at worse turn it around and make a quick $1000 on it and be happy......and they got a new customer that switched to Audi.
but I expected a more realistic offer from the Audi store-
They just weren't hungry enough to make a sale. I would guess another Audi dealer would have been very aggressive in trying to convert a bmw customer into an Audi customer.
My Audi dealer was sure happy to convert me. Just depends on the particular Audi dealer.
It's my honest opinion that auto sales will remain strong for the rest of this year. This is based on the tremendous improvements in technology and wide variety of models to choose from.
My hat is off to Hyundai and Kia. Hyundai for it's Genesis and Sonata models and Kia for it's outstanding improvements and upgrades to their Optima model. The sales of these Korean entries are startling. Another surprise is the success Toyota is having with their Camry and Corolla models in the face of all those recalls. Lexus has had tremendous success with their IS250 and IS350 models and BMW with its 3 series.
In conclusion, because foreign auto manufacturers have been building more and more of their cars and SUV's in the US, they have been able to keep their production costs down and do not have to pay duties on cars produced here. So long as auto prices remain relatively stable, sales will continue to be strong. Couple that with extremely low interest rates for leases and auto loans, sales will continue to show strength.
But if interest rates rise, gasoline prices go up unexpectedly due to problems with Iran, and/or unemployment rates stay above 8% or go even higher along other negatives associated with the presidential election, the bottom will fall out of car sales as well as general retail sales.
Mike....what I've noticed, probably over the last decade, all dealerships I'vr tried to trade with state the'll wholesale the trade, regardless of how nice, desireable and saleable the trade was. Then, I check their used lot, to find they put my trade on the lot. The whole "wholesale" ploy doesn't resonate with me anymore.
The whole "wholesale" ploy doesn't resonate with me anymore
*graphicguy, just because they say they will wholesale the car and then put it on their lot does not mean they are deceiving you. Let me explain.
If I took in a trade that I intended to wholesale, the owner or used car manager might over-rule me the next day or two and decide to put a few bucks into the car and put it out on the lot on the hope it will sell quickly so they could make a few bucks. But that doesn't mean the car is not going to be wholesaled on a week or two. But when I appraised a car and decided that I should wholesale it, there was a very good reason. It could have been miles, interior condition, color, just to name a few. So you should not feel "taken" just because a dealer said he was going to wholesale it and doesn't at first. Is all based on a business decision and one that is made by the higher ups on the dealership.
They may have also found out that the wholesale market had changed for that particular trade which could mean they would lose money if they went ahead and tried to wholesale it.
Bu I do see your point - it is so easy to lie to a customer and just say they have to wholesale the trade. I don't see the advantages of saying one thing to a customer and then do something else. Not very smart if you want to maintain solid customer trust.
something else helping sales now is interest rates. They are so low, it does not really cost that much (interest wise) to finance out longer (say 5 years). Combine that with longer warranties on many cars (especially powertrain), and just generally better reliability and longer lasting vehicles, and it is much safer to spread the payments out over 5 years making a car more affordable.
I am looking for my wife now (no wait, I have a wife, I am looking for a car for her, yeah, that's it!), and for various reasons may end up going with a 5 year note (normally my rule was never more than 3, and pay it off early). But, anything we get will have at least 5 years on the PT, and we plan to keep it for at least 10 years (and only put on about 10K/year) so in the big scheme of things, not a worry)
They just weren't hungry enough to make a sale. I would guess another Audi dealer would have been very aggressive in trying to convert a bmw customer into an Audi customer.
The salesperson was definitely ambivalent; that whole deal about "maybe next week we can get you a better deal when the UCM is back" just struck me as lazy and unmotivated. The dealer has since relocated to new and impressive digs and hired a more effective sales team. The salesperson we are currently working with on the Mini is much more professional and already mentioned that she'd like to see me switch to an Audi- but I told her that I'm hopelessly biased towards RWD and inline sixes... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Everything a dealer says is designed to get you to pay more for a car... You just have to ignore it and stick with your plan
Exactly! When I was trading in a V8 dealers said I would have got more if I was trading a 6, if I had a 6 I would get more for a V8, if you have a manual they would give you more for an automatic, if you have a 2 door you would get more if you had a 4 door and on it goes.
With the last car they offer a low price because they can buy the same car at the "bmw auction" for a low price...blah blah blah.
All garbage talk......find out what your car is really worth and don't let them give you their phony stories. And, I think you do better these days if you switch makes. I think it was an advantage to stay with your brand a few years ago....dealers wanted your make on their lot.......these days manufacturers are more competitive and they want you to switch to their brand. That's just my opinion.
Some quotes which illustrate the point I was attempting to make -
All of us "American Boys" owe everything to immigration -
"America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts." “Remember, remember always, that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists.”
No person is "Illegal", we are all, in the end, just people -
“I take issue with many people's description of people being "Illegal" Immigrants. There aren't any illegal Human Beings as far as I'm concerned.”
My point is we should not dismiss immigrants simply because they entered the country "illegally". I do agree there should be some recognition that some immigrants did not use legal procedures. For people who contribute to society, I thing something like community service would suffice. We should also tighten the boarders, though a wall make no sense.
A quote regarding public schools -
"Public schools were designed as the great equalizers of our society - the place where all children could have access to educational opportunities to make something of themselves in adulthood."
No Child Left Behind was doomed from the start. Tying school funding to measureable goals like assessments makes no sense, far too simplistic. Each school is unique requiring unique solutions.
Education mandates at the national level are essential. We must not allow tyranny at the local level to defeat the purpose of public education. For example, there are communities in the South which believe teaching creation rather than science is education. We must not allow such silliness.
If you go with AWD it will be like RWD with extra good handling and safety
Not really. IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) Audi is F/AWD system. This means its really a FWD vehicle that when called for can direct a % of available power to the rear wheels. In day to day driving it will perform like FWD.
A BMW with AWD with be RWD based and apply power to the front wheels as needed. In normal driving it should perform similar to its RWD brothers.
I've gone back and forth between FWD and RWD a few times. To me it really doesn't matter. I can driver either in the snow, and my primary concern is a soft quiet ride so the handling advantage of RWD isn't a big deal to me.
Not really. IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) Audi is F/AWD system
I don't have time to research your premise, but I think it is a misconception. When I drive an Audi AWD car, there is absolutely NO torque steer, so I think the power is provided by the best combination of wheels at the time.
Most AWD cars are good, particularly Suburu, BMW and Audi. Many reviewers believe the Audi Quattro is best for snow.
I have to go to work so I can't give you the definitive answer, but I can only say from driving the car, if an Audi AWD is bias to FWD I would be very surprised.
Mike...what you state is I'm sure true. But, as Driver and I have experienced, whatever it is we have to trade, isn't ideal for what the dealer wants on his lot. As mentioned, that's happened without fail every time I've tried to trade a car over the last decade. or so.
I probably trade what most would consider "Cream Puffs", the vast majority of the time.. They are cars which have a combination (sometimes all) of low miles, desirable models, with desirable options, that have always been garaged, have been well cared for, and look good, in mainstream colors. I'd get...."we'd wholesale that" as a trade response, followed shortly by the "black book, Manhheim report, etc, which always shows the least a car would sell for at auction or what black book says (whichever is lowest). Two weeks later, it's on the lot.
That's why I always put my own number on my trade (based on research of what similar cars sell for in my area and what I feel is a reasonable figure where the dealer can make a reasonable profit).
Ordinarily, that number includes a "buy" offer from the used car dept of the dealer that sells that mark as new. I look at KBB, NADA, my bank's loan value on the car. Then, I come up with a number. It's normally somewhere between the straight "buy offer" and KBB/NADA.
That's the number I base part of my offer to buy their new car (another number I research thoroughly). All I really care about is the difference between the two.
A dealer can wax poetically all day about wholesaling or auctioning my trade. How the color isn't ideal. How the market is soft on my popular car these days, etc. What they do with the trade after we sign the deal paperwork doesn't matter to me. They can wholesale it, put it on their lot, drive it as a company demo (which has happened in the past on one of my very nice trades).
That's how I came up with my "one offer" way of buying a car. Either you can do it, or you can't. Regardless of the reasoning, if you can't, no harm, no foul. We'll shake hands and part ways. If you can, I just bought a car from you (and you get my trade).
In reality, I'm a real easy buyer. I try to set myself up to be in and out of a dealership in less than 90 minutes, to the acceptance of the deal (if they reject my deal, I'm out the door in 20 minutes), to F&I, to inspection, to driving off their lot.
When I was trading in a V8 dealers said I would have got more if I was trading a 6, if I had a 6 I would get more for a V8, if you have a manual they would give you more for an automatic, if you have a 2 door you would get more if you had a 4 door and on it goes.
*driver, remember my post about what Lexus wanted to originally give me for my 2012 E350? They wanted to give me $49000.00. The car had 4000 miles on it, originally listed for $62325.00 and was loaded. They gave me no excuses as to why they were giving me so little, just said, "...it will be very difficult for us to sell or wholesale such a car with low miles if we gave you any more!"
Well, I gave them the original Monrony Sticker from the Benz and I got them up to $52,000. That made the deal. They sold me the new car for invoice, and I originally paid $55300.00 for the Benz, so I made out great. But most people paid $60,000 for that same Benz.
To make a long story short, I was there for a car wash last week and my Benz was still on the lot. I asked the Managers why they hadn't wholesaled it or sold it yet, and they said quite frankly, "...We can't even get $50,000 on a wholesale sale and we've had no bites at $52,000, so we will take anything above $50,000 for it and lose a few bucks!"
*driver, there is an example of what dealers are up against if they overvalue a car, which they did with mine. They will probably lose $3,000 on the trade before it's all over. But of course, when things are average out, it really doesn't make much of a difference in the long run.
All I am trying to say is that when appraising a car, an appriaser must take into consideration many, many factors - and the most important factor is "what I can sell this car for" or "what can I wholesale this car for?" If he makes too many mistakes, he'll be collecting unemployment insurance quickly. I know you are very, very concerned over the fact that BMW offered you $4000 less than Audi, and you are angry over it. We all know this because you have posted this aggravation many, many, many times since you bought the Audi. All I'm trying to do is show you the car business from a variety of perspectives, rather than just one perspective.
All of us are always anti-dealer when it comes to buying cars and valuing our trades. It's part of the process - this distrust we all of for auto dealers. Remember, I, too, distrust them, just as much as you do and the rest of us here on this forum. I just tend to do better than most because I was lucky enough to be in the business as both a salesperson and as a sales manager. So I know all the tricks, the lying, etc. I'm able to go into a dealership, show them one of my previous business cards, and I am immediately on an equal playing field with them. But most of the rest of our friends here on this forum do not have that advantage, and that is why I try to help out as much as I can by relating stories, experiences, sharing my expertise, etc.
I am extremely empathetic with all of us on this forum as auto dealers are not friends of the buyer, they are enemies. Use some of my expertise in turning the tables on them next time you buy or lease a car.
1. Look up on Edmunds, kbb, cars.com, etc., the approximate value of your trade as a trade in, not as a private sale. Value it as GOOD, not perfect, because there is no such thing as a perfectly clean car. My Benz was perfectly clean, but I valued it as Good, and I got what I wanted. Next, go to several dealers and get their appraisals on a new car. If you average all the appraisals and all the listings from online sources, you will arrive at a fair trade-in value for your car. So, this part of buying a new car is settled.
2. Price the new car on Edmunds, kbb, cars.com, make note of invoice and determine any incentives. Now, you know what the car cost the dealer, within a few hundred bucks. Buying a car at $500 over invoice, give or take a few bucks, it exactly what most people think is fair once all incentives are taken into consideration.
3. Make offers at several dealerships, at about $500 over. One will make the deal, believe me, unlesss the car you want to buy is brand new on the market or newly redesigned.
I know I've posted this info before, but I though I would post it again. If anyone of our friends on this forum is going to buy a car, feel free to pick my brain. I haven't got much of anything else to do anyway.
Yes, *graphicguy, you are an easy buyer and an easy sale! You do your homework on both the trade and the new car. Read my post above, as I believe we are on the same page.
When I go into a dealership to buy a car, which is usually once a year, sometimes even twice, I am interested only in driving the car and determining if this is the car I want to drive for a year or so. I went into the Lexus dealership on a Saturday, having no intention of buying a new car. When I drove the GS350, I was truly infatuated by the technology, the ride, the handling, the acceleration, and the looks. They tried everything in their power to sit me down to buy the car, but I said I just didn't like the color, and the color I wanted was not available for another month.
I went home, did some research on the car, and found invoice as well as the fact that there was a conquested incentive of $1500. I researched my trade and Manheim said it was worth about $50,000 wholesale, but they had put only 2 cars through the sale, and I am sure both were Premium 1 cars, not Premium 2 cars. I knew what I paid for my Benz, so I deducted $4000 from my buy figure and settled on $51,000.
My Dad and I went over to the same dealership the next day, Sunday, and the next to the last day of the month. My Dad like the gray and the saddle interior, etc., so I decided to drive it one more time. At the end, I bought the car because I got what I wanted for the trade (actually $1000 more) and I paid dealer invoice. I also got a 60 month loan on $15,000 for 2.6% simple interest, also a good deal for 60 months.
Yes, it take lots and lots of homework and preparation to buy a new car, and if more people would take car buying as serioiusly as do you, *driver and me, as well as many of our friends here on this forum, things would be a lot better for all.
Not really. IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) Audi is F/AWD system.
Audi Quattro drive delivers power to all four wheels equally, unless it is needed in other wheels. Read this simple explanation of how it works and why it works so well; How Quattro Drive Works
I have to get back to work, but will check other posts soon,
But, as Driver and I have experienced, whatever it is we have to trade, isn't ideal for what the dealer wants on his lot.
Two weeks later, it's on the lot.
Put me in your group too.
When the XG350 blew up I was starring at putting 3 grand into it because neither the dealer or Hyundai would do it as warranty work. The car was 7 years old but until this mishap it was a perfect car but I was growing a little tired of it even though it was Mrs. j’s car. I was almost ready to look at the Equss and use her car as the trade before any of this happened but I was trying to figure out how to pull that off and while I was procrastinating, the XG350 thing happened. Anyway, after I was told that it would not be covered under warranty I go into the show room and I’m looking at the Sonata Turbo just to see what that thing was going for. A salesman comes over and asks if he could help. I tell him the story and he’s just shaking his head. I said if you guys can give me a knock out deal on a Turbo because of what just went on in your service dept. I could be interested but you’re going to have to really do something for me. I told him I wanted a price on the XG350 as it sat and if I liked that we could talk about his car. He says he going to get a price for the XG350 as it sat with the blown engine. He comes back in about 20 minutes and tells me the used car manager would give me $2K even, as it sat. Of course I said that will never work because if it had a working engine the books said it would be worth around $6K as a trade, in the near perfect condition it was in. He then wants to know what I want. I said $2600. I figured by the time I paid 3 grand for the engine and added tax I might be able to get around $6K for the car in that condition but I would still be out a little more than $3K. FWIW, both of my sons said I’d never get anything near $6K but I disagreed with both of them about that. The salesman goes off and comes back with an offer of $2100 and says, “that’s it, the used car manager said he’d have to find a wholesaler for it and he’d be lucky to even get $2100 for it but to keep a customer he’d go up to $2100”. Nice guy, huh?
We all know that I bought Mrs. j the Subie in November 2011 and I did not use the XG350 as a trade. I was either going to sell it as it sat or have an engine dropped in it and sell it like that. After the Subie purchase I decided to go see the used car manager at the Hyundai store, where the XG350 sat in their parking lot waiting for me to come and get it or have them fix it. The used car manager said he remembered seeing the car and still had his paper work on the offer and he pulls it out and says, “yeah, here it is. I’ll give $2100 for it”. I said, “you know it’s worth more than that so that won’t work”. He asks what I want and I say $2900. He about falls off his chair and says, “OK, it’s worth more than 21 but I can’t give you 29, you have to know that yourself”. I said then we can’t do business today and as I’m pushing my chair back he says, “OK, you got a raw deal. Factory reps can be a real PITA to deal with but I don’t want you to go away with a bad taste in your mouth about us so I’ll give you $2800 but that’s as high as I can go”. That was good enough for me because that was more than I felt I was going to get for it so I took that offer, but I wasn’t going to take $2100, I knew that. Maybe $2300 just to feel good that I could bump him up a little but not $2100.
A week later, this car, that would have to be wholesaled, was on his lot for just under $10K. I don’t for a minute think that he got that for it but I think he probably got something just a little south of $8K for it.
They always seem to have a reason why they have to steal your trade even today with used cars bringing unbelievable prices.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Audi Quattro drive delivers power to all four wheels equally
OK, it is a different system than I was thinking. I still have read some reviews that in terms of pure handling BMWs RWD biased system is better. I'm convinced in everyday driving it wouldn't matter.
I'll tell you one thing. I checked out the A4 on the website, and the interior looks fantastic.
I was almost ready to look at the Equss and use her car as the trade before any of this happened but I was trying to figure out how to pull that off and while I was procrastinating, the XG350 thing happened.
That will teach you to stop procratinating! If you would have dropped 60K on an Equus none of this would have happened!
They always seem to have a reason why they have to steal your trade even today with used cars bringing unbelievable prices
It sounds like both your and *driver have had some bad experiences with trades, but trades are usually the stumbling blocks to make the deal everyone wants to make. The used car market has been quite good lately, which is why I am somewhat stymied as to why there is such a tremendous difference in the valuing of trades from one dealer to the next. I can see a thousand or two difference, but not $4,000 or $6,000. That is difficult for me to comprehend after being in the business.
Remember, often a dealer can put more into a car than it's worth because there are incentives on the new car that most people are unaware of. As an example, let's say that a car's real value as a wholesale piece is $5,500. The new car has a dealer incentive of $1500 on it. Thus, it is possible for the dealer to appraise the car for $7,000 even though it isn't worth that much. It's all a matter of creativity on the part of the dealership.
I wouldn't trust your dealer with my business, that's for sure. I don't like the smart-alicky way he did business with you. Can't stand liars and cheats. Gets to me, to be sure.
When I go in to buy a car, and I feel the dealership is being condescending, I leave. If I feel they are lying, I leave. They might try to get me back in the showroom after I had just left, but I turn and say to them, "...you had your chance and you blew it! Go take someone else for a ride, I'm not playing your game!"
We all have stories about dealerships and being cheated or lied to. Unfortunately, that is the nature of the beast. But because I know what the truth is by being prepared before going into a dealership, just like you were, *jmonroe, and *driver, we get what we expect - a good deal!
"America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts." “Remember, remember always, that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists.”
I never said there was anything wrong with immigration. Both sets of my grandparents, all four of them, got off a boat in the late 1890’s. However, they did it “legally and from what I heard, it wasn’t a drop dead given that you would get papers even back then but they waited their turn, kept applying and finally they did it “legally”. Please note that it was done “legally”.
No person is "Illegal", we are all, in the end, just people –
Ah...making your own laws, are you? Maybe because YOU don’t like someone YOU can shoot them. Do you really think the courts will agree with you about that? Ok, maybe you know better than that. How about not paying Federal taxes because you think they’re illegal and too high. Try that one and you’ll be posting a reply even later than getting back to my reply to you about immigration.
“I take issue with many people's description of people being "Illegal" Immigrants. There aren't any illegal Human Beings as far as I'm concerned.”
Very nice, bleeding hearts can always say it best. Just don’t forget that we have laws and they must be obeyed. If you don’t like them you’ll have to get them changed. We have a judge in here; maybe he can tell you how to go about doing that
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
that has me paranoid with taking my time finding the right new car for the wife. I live in fear that the odyssey will crap out on me before I can get rid of it!
Mike...you're right. We're agreeing in different ways, me thinks!
When you traded your MB 350 for the Lexus, there may have been trunk money on the Benz, along with the Conquest money (what was that amount....$3K?).
I know the dealership my GF bought the S4 from also had a Benz and BMW store side-by-side-by-side to their Audi store. I originally pulled into the Benz side when I first arrived by mistake. They had a very nice E350 4Matic coupe sitting out front which I was eyeballing before heading into their Audi store next door.
A salesperson approached me (as I had my son's Accord which I was driving at the time). He asked if I was interested in the E (of course, who wouldn't be?). I told him I was there for the Audi store. He pointed me in the right direction. But, he also asked if I had another car, other than the Accord. I told him I actually owned a BMW. He said that there was $3K conquest cash on the E, if I was truly interested.
Relaying this to your E350 trade. Buy price was $60K. Take off the $3K for Conquest. You're at a solid $57K for a very nice, and NEW E350. Personally, if it were me? I'd go for the $57K new E350, vs $52K-$53K used one.
Seems like the dealer had a series of events which all hit at once which affected your trade. One of the very few times that a dealer has a unit which they over valued.
If I were in their shoes, I'd use your Benz trade as a Manager's car. Hold onto it a year. Write part of it off, and then sell it as a dealership executive car.
whatever it is we have to trade, isn't ideal for what the dealer wants on his lot. And it never will be as long as he gets to lower the price of yours.
I came here in 2005 complaining about a used 2005 Mustang I was trying to buy 80 miles away. Did a phone call, got them to $22k and drove there in my trade which was a year newer than the Mustang. Once they discovered my trade had solid value of more than the Mustang, their Mustang popped back up to $24,995. No sale. Some salesman here asked if I had the $22k in writing. No, but I wrote down the conversation verbatim. Didn't matter. Dealer tricks. It's happened to all of us.
The new car has a dealer incentive of $1500 on it. Thus, it is possible for the dealer to appraise the car for $7,000 even though it isn't worth that much. It's all a matter of creativity on the part of the dealership.
I will walk out of any dealer who attempts to hide rebate. I probably told this before but I'll tell it again.
My best friend's father had just passed away and his mother needed a new car. She wanted an Elantra. Hard loaded, with leather etc.
I was brought into the mix to help seek one out and do the deal. She has never purchased a car and my buddy hates it. I say no problem and start doing research.
Since she knew exactly what she wanted it was pretty easy to find. The local automall has the exact unit she will be happy with (Stickguy knows the place). I do some homework and look up the invoice price, rebates, etc.
I show all this to my buddy and his mother and was preparing to make an offer of invoice plus $250 minus rebate. I then added in taxes and a $100 doc fee to come up with an OTD number. This was a cash deal.
We get there and I allow them to make us their offer first. The salesman comes out and says "I can offer a great price" . I say let's see it. It was MSRP minus $1000. I look at him and say "where is your discount?"
He replies "what do you think the $1000 is?" I explain that is from Hyundai, not the dealer. He still insists, that is the discount.
I get up to leave (before even showing them our offer) and then the manager comes over. I explain I was not happy that he tried to "hide" the rebate and that I would give someone else the business. He asked what would get us to do the deal. I took my OTD # I had in my head and deducted the $250 and the DOC fee.
They took it, to move a unit. My buddy just shook his head and the mother was thrilled because the car cost even a bit less than she thought.
Does it really matter when to talk about your trade-in: Before or after purchase?
Most car buying services and websites recommend that buyers should lock in the final purchase price of a new car before talking trade. I am beginning to think perhaps the opposite is true.
If the sales manager can see the total picture then he can structure a deal that would benefit both parties. But if you talk trade after purchase then the dealer is probably going to low ball your trade since you do not have much bargaining power at this point.
Am I am wrong or does it really matter if you talk trade before or after purchase?
Mike...you're right. We're agreeing in different ways, me thinks!
*graphicguy, I actually paid $55,300 for the $63,000 Benz because I used my USAA buying plan, which was invoice less $2000 at the time, and I also got $2000 additionally from MB Financial, because I had a loan with MB at the time. So, I actually used the new Mercedes for $3000 for 6 months, which is why I can buy cars frequently, as mentioned in a post a few months ago.
There was actually a $1500 conquest, which came off the bottom line as cash. As for Mercedes Benz, truly a geat car, especially their E350. I truly enjoyed owning them for 5 years, but you get tired of the same car after 5 years, as I did with BMW. It was time to venture forth into something different, and I did not see any advantage in going back to BMW, for sure, to drive yet another 535i, and I did not like Audi A6 or A7. LIked the A8, but I am not going to spend $85,000 for a car, any more than I would spend that on a 7 Series BMW or S Class Mercedes.
Lexus LS460 is just to much of a luxury, cushy car. But this new GS is truly a great car for the money, rides great, 4 difference settings for ride and handling, all the way up to Sport+ which really stiffens the car up nicely because it adjusts the shocks and sterring.
I always buy cars in the $50,000 to $60,000 range. USAA did not have any special deals on Lexus - they rarely do.
I can easily see myself back in a Mercedes Benz when they change the body style in 2014 or 2015. In the meantime, I am driving a 2013, and can see myself enjoying this car for a couple of years, which is strange for me to say, but with the economy the way it is right now, I am trying to conserve a little, financially.
In conclusion, yes we see things from the same perspective regarding trades and used cars and how to purchase new cars.
I checked out the A4 on the website, and the interior looks fantastic. When do you get yours?
There were lots of things we liked more about the A4 compared to the 335, and one is the interior. That has been the strong point for Audi for the last few years.
I think AWD offers superior handling and control, so in my opinion, an AWD car should handle better than even a RWD. My non-expert opinion is that BMW does specialize more in handling so I think they get the engineering right when it comes to cornering, steering and handling....but, for the average person, the Audi has superb handling.
By the time you put your order in it takes 2 to 3 months for Audi to build the car and ship it, and then prepare it in Canada. It comes by train from Halifax. They estimate it will arrive in late August or early September...kind of builds up the suspense.
I hear they are planning on making Audis in the US soon. That should cut costs and speed up delivery time.
That will teach you to stop procratinating! If you would have dropped 60K on an Equus none of this would have happened!
You know, over the 4th of July my sons and I got into a car discussion, hard to believe but it’s true. I pretty much mentioned that same line to Mrs. j and I have done this a time or two before and I always get the same LOOK.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sticker from the Benz and I got them up to $52,000.
The original MSRP was $62K. By the time they try to make a bit of profit on it they have to try to sell it for $55k. I would not have done this deal if I was the appraiser. Someone could buy the new one for less than $60K. Someone that can afford a $55K car would probably prefer getting a brand new one exactly the way they want it for $5K more.
I would question if I was a possible customer....why did some guy trade in an almost new Mercedes for a Lexus? There could be a very good reason, but it could also mean the previous owner had some real issues with the car.
I don't think I am that upset about the $4000 difference BMW offered me for the trade. I just think they were foolish to lose a sale, when the same car is being sold for about $8k to $10K more than they wanted to give me. I think they just made a very bad business decision. In fact I am not upset at all, because we found a car we like more. I just think what they did should be taught in auto selling school....how to lose a customer the easy way.
If the sales manager can see the total picture then he can structure a deal that would benefit both parties. But if you talk trade after purchase then the dealer is probably going to low ball your trade since you do not have much bargaining power at this point.
I agree. If you have a car to trade it’s going to come out sometime. So why not right at the beginning? When the dealer knows all the facts he can jumble the numbers all he wants as long as the end of the deal is what you want.
Maybe I say this because I think I know how the game works. I know it worked for me when I bought the Genny in ’09. In fact, I bumped them up $600 for the ’06 Sonata LX that was the trade. I would have settled for $350 more but they said OK to my wanting $600 more. They wanted my trade because that is where they were going to make their money on that deal.
It’s been said that “knowledge is power”. I’m not in need of any power. I just want what my research says I should get...on both ends.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Comments
We have all experienced strange occurrences with at least one new car we've purchased in our lives. Whether the car was a lemon or had a strange sound or some other ominous quirk. When you work in the car business, stories always seem to circulate about these "gremlins" that seem to take a brand new car and make it act like it was 20 years old.
I remember one such experience when I first started working in the car business. We had a huge inventory of a mid sized SUV that was a tremendous seller for us. I had a young man come in and was interested in this particular vehicle, a mid sized SUV that MSRP'd at about $41,000. I went over the car with him on the showroom floor, pointing out all it's features and benefits. He wanted to test drive one do I pulled one up front for him to drive. We pulled out and about a block from the dealership, we switched seats so he could drive. About 5 minutes into the demo drive, we heard a loud noise coming from YHE front of the vehicle. He pulled over, and when we got out of the SUV, we saw a huge puddle of fluid pouring out of the engine compartment. I called the dealership on the cell phone and asked them to send over a tow truck and someone with another SUV so we could continue the demo drive. I explained to the customer that even though the SUV had been rated tops in its class, there is always one that breaks down because of one thing or another. He said no problem and about 10 minutes later, the tow truck arrives and a driver with another demo pulls up. (I'll tell you now that a transmission cooler line had come loose and was being hit by the fan, causing the line to break and lose transmission fluid).
After we finished the demo drive, he said he liked the vehicle and wanted to buy it if YHE price was right. I wrote up the preliminary paperwork and went to see the manager. I told him what had happened on the demo ride, so he discounted the SUV right off the bat by $3000, which was most of the profit in the vehicle. He told me to tell the customer that he was selling the vehicle at almost dealer invoice to make up for the bad experience. I did what the manager directed me to and the customer took the deal immediately! I then completed the paperwork and delivered the vehicle to the customer.
The very next day, I got a frantic call from the same customer telling me his brand new SUV was leaking this red fluid from under the engine and that the car could not be put into gear. Also, that a tow truck was bringing the car back to the dealership. When the vehicle arrived with the customer at the service department, the service manager said, after inspecting under the hood, that a transmission cooler line had snapped out of its housing and was leaking transmission fluid. The customer yells, "...BUT I JUST BOUGHT THIS CAR YESTERDAY! It has the same issue as the demo we drove yesterday!"
It seems that there had been a service advisory issued to inspect all vehicles of this model produced during a specific month for loose transmission cooler lines improperly assembled at the factory. Unfortunately, our service department had not gotten around to inspecting over half our inventory. Who new how many other vehicles were having the same problems.
The customer wanted his money back and, because the title work had not yet been processed, the customer got his check back with no questions asked.
They found 5 other SUV's with the same defect after inspecting the rest of the inventory. And of course, I was out a sale and my commission!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Yes, we've all been there at one time or another. After buying a brand new Porsche 944 Turbo back in the 1980's, I remember being dragged to Baily, Bittle and Banks (upscale jewelry store) in the Chicago suburbs and buying my lovely wife a Rolex ladies Date Just in gold and stainless steel. Ahhh, yes, those were the good old days!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Do you also do plumbing for your friends. I was telling the guys at tennis about the $1000 bill to fix one pipe, for 3 hours work.
They thought it was ridiculous so I decided to call the customer service department of this company. I was very polite, I said they did a beautiful job, the fellow who worked on it was a professional, he diagnosed the problem and fixed it quickly, but it was a lot for 3 hours work.
She said they don't pay by the hour and that I agreed to the price. I explained that they were late and I had to have it fixed for Sunday, otherwise I would have got another offer.
She said she would take it to management and they would get back to me.
I said, word of mouth is very important and I just talked to 16 guys who had played tennis that morning.
We'll see!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard - "various people spend their money in various ways." My problem is I run out of money before I run out to various....
I really liked our BMW guy and I would have loved to buy my wife's car from him. The appraiser valued her trade in at $4000 less than I found it was worth online.
The salesman worked hard to notify us about the new models and let us test drive cars, and work out a price. But the appraisal guy blew the whole deal for him.
I feel really bad, but, glad she found a car she likes better. That must have really hurt....especially since you talked about the sales per month really affecting his pay.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Less confrontational than sitting across from each other with a desk between you.
My wife and I needed a sandwich at a Tim Hortons place here. We asked for them to be made on whole wheat and waited by the counter.
Lots of people got their orders and i asked where ours were.
He said these were ours on white bread. I said we asked for whole wheat.
He said the computer screen says you ordered white bread. He wouldn't make us a whole wheat one because the computer screen said we ordered white. So, I asked to talk to the manager.
She came out, took us over to a table, and made certain she was sitting with us, around the table, not across from the table.
She asked what the problem was. I told her. She says the kid was new and won't last long. She gave us a free meal.
Not having a desk between you is a very friendly jesture.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They found 5 other SUV's with the same defect after inspecting the rest of the inventory. And of course, I was out a sale and my commission!
This is something I just don’t understand about the car biz. The manufacture finds a problem and notifies the dealerships but these bulletins are not given the attention they deserve. How hard can it be to put a sheet on the windshield and on the dash/steering column where you insert the key/push the button warning the person that the car has to be inspected for a notification prior to sale? Hell, the keys should be put in a locked cabinet that only the sales manager/service manager has access to. All this does is give a bad rap to the manufacture, the car, the dealership and at the end of the line, a salesman like you loses a sale.
Something tells me that after this occurrence the dealership must have put a new policy in place regarding bulletins. If they didn’t then the problem can only be repeated.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Of course, *driver. It's happened loads of times when I was a salesperson and because the used car manager under appraised my customer's trade, I lost the sale.
But when I went into management and I started appraising cars, I used a very methodical system to value a trade and rarely lost a sale because of what I put on a car:
*look the car up on Manheim and see what the car was wholesaling at
*look the car up in Black Book and see what they had to say about it's value
*determine if I was going to wholesale the car or keep it on my lot
*run a CARFAX on the car to check for titled date, accidents, repairs and service history
Then I put a value on the trade. If the customer balked, I would bring him/her over to my computer and pull up the CARFAX, the Manheim results, and show Black Book estimates. That was all I usually had to do to close the trade part of the sale.
But there are always those customers who think their trade is worth it's weight in gold, and those people are lost causes. I can't value a trade at retail, which is what some people wanted me to do. So, I then said I would give them retail value for their trade, but then they had to give me sticker for the new car. Or, I would tell them to sell the car privately, but shows them the sales taxes they would have to pay without the trade. Even then, some customers thought their trades were so valuable that the Smithsonian Institute should buy it.
*driver, in other words sometimes you just can't give a customer everything they want for their car because you would be better off not selling them a car. I don't know how or why your BMW dealership arrived at $20,000 for your trade and Audi gave you $24,000. It is quite possible there were heavy incentives available on the Audi so he could "show" more for your car, but it is very odd that there was a $4000 difference on valuation from one dealer to another - very odd!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
From my recollection of the story, that would have been very doubtful, *stickguy! If memory serves me right, he used just about every expletive in the known English language, an some from the "unknown" English language as he was leaving the dealership. Nope, I'm willing to bet all my sales plaques and trophies that he didn't buy a vehicle from this manufacturer.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I am assuming the BMW dealer offered you more for you BMW because he sells BMW's! I would do the same if it was a used car of the brand I sell.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
No doubt; but I expected a more realistic offer from the Audi store- as I stated in my original post, I would have bought the A4 I was looking at if they had merely offered me the auction price for the 3er.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
There is but one day in my short career selling cars that I will never forget. It was the best of days and it was the worst of days!
The busiest time of the year for car sales used to be the month of December. I believe this is still true today, but when I was selling cars, December was a killer month. I remember this day was on a Friday, the day before Christmas Eve Day in the mid 2000's. All the manufacturers have special incentives for the final month of the year called "The Winter Sales Event", "The December To Remember Sales Event", "The December Opportunity Sales Event", or some other event that is run in December.
I arrived at the dealership at 8:00 AM as I had an early appointment. I worked with the customer and succeeded in selling him a new mid sized sedan - not much gross so it was a mini deal with minimum commission. By the time I did all the paperwork and delivered the car. It was 10:30 AM. He left very happy, and as I was walking back to the showroom, I met another customer who was looking for the flagship sedan, of which we had a shortage for some reason. We had only 5 on stock and he wanted one right away. I showed him what I had and he settled on a Black Cherry sedan that MSRP'd at $68,800. I told him I couldn't discount the car because of the limited availability, but he didn't care so long as he could take it home that day. So, he bought the car and paid cash for it. He got $500 off sticker, so I made a nice commission.
At 1:30 PM, a friend of my Dad came in and wanted the newly introduced SUV. I showed him what I had in inventory and after test driving a black one, I sold it to him at $1200 under sticker, which was a great deal considering the vehicle had come out only the month before. By 3:45 PM, I had delivered my 3rd vehicle for the day.
I went back on the floor and the greeter gave me a customer who was looking for two cars - one for his son and one for his daughter. His children were not with him, but he knew exactly what they wanted - identical cars but in different colors. We went out to the new car lot and he found just what he wanted for then - two smaller sedans, one with a 5-speed and one with an automatic. We went back inside and since he was buying two cars, I got him a price of $500 over invoice for each. We wrote up the two cars, got him through finance, and I drove one of them up to his home in Delray Beach and he followed me with the other new car. We then were driven back to the dealership by his wife where he picked up his car and they both went home.
It was 7:30 PM by the time I got to my office. The showroom was jammed with customers waiting for a salesperson. I was supposed to leave at 6:00 PM, but the general manager asked me to just take one of the waiting customers before I left.
I was introduced to this delightful retired widow who lived in the same condo development as I did. We shared some stories while we were looking on the new car lot for a new car for her. I landed her on a car that she really liked, test drive it, and went back to the showroom. I began negotiations and had her trade appraised. I barely made it back to the desk as I was ready to fall on my face I was so exhausted. Yo make a long story a little shorter, I sold the car and made a nice commission. After delivering the car, I trudged back to the showroom to put the paperwork in the sold box. I was so exhausted (it was now 10:30 PM) I couldn't think of driving home. I called a cab and went straight home.
So, I had concluded the best and the worst day of my car selling career - the best in that I had sold and delivered 6 new cars in one day - and the worst day in that I was so beat and stressed, I had quit my job working for that dealership before taking a cab home! The car business is a very tough business, but it can sure get to you.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
In my case the Audi dealer gave me more, much more than the bmw dealer...and I am pretty sure I know why.
The BMW dealer claims they would have to put $4000 into the car, then try to make $4000 on it. They may have to warrranty it if the customer buying it wants it certified.
The Audi sales manager has more freedom to act. He'll take the car, and put it on the lot and make a few $1000 on it, and at worse turn it around and make a quick $1000 on it and be happy......and they got a new customer that switched to Audi.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They just weren't hungry enough to make a sale. I would guess another Audi dealer would have been very aggressive in trying to convert a bmw customer into an Audi customer.
My Audi dealer was sure happy to convert me. Just depends on the particular Audi dealer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
We've had a bubble in everything from houses to stocks,
but cars just keep on climbing. Do you think there is a bubble
about to bust with wages dropping and unemployment rising?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
It's my honest opinion that auto sales will remain strong for the rest of this year. This is based on the tremendous improvements in technology and wide variety of models to choose from.
My hat is off to Hyundai and Kia. Hyundai for it's Genesis and Sonata models and Kia for it's outstanding improvements and upgrades to their Optima model. The sales of these Korean entries are startling. Another surprise is the success Toyota is having with their Camry and Corolla models in the face of all those recalls. Lexus has had tremendous success with their IS250 and IS350 models and BMW with its 3 series.
In conclusion, because foreign auto manufacturers have been building more and more of their cars and SUV's in the US, they have been able to keep their production costs down and do not have to pay duties on cars produced here. So long as auto prices remain relatively stable, sales will continue to be strong. Couple that with extremely low interest rates for leases and auto loans, sales will continue to show strength.
But if interest rates rise, gasoline prices go up unexpectedly due to problems with Iran, and/or unemployment rates stay above 8% or go even higher along other negatives associated with the presidential election, the bottom will fall out of car sales as well as general retail sales.
So, you have my take on auto sales!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
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*graphicguy, just because they say they will wholesale the car and then put it on their lot does not mean they are deceiving you. Let me explain.
If I took in a trade that I intended to wholesale, the owner or used car manager might over-rule me the next day or two and decide to put a few bucks into the car and put it out on the lot on the hope it will sell quickly so they could make a few bucks. But that doesn't mean the car is not going to be wholesaled on a week or two. But when I appraised a car and decided that I should wholesale it, there was a very good reason. It could have been miles, interior condition, color, just to name a few. So you should not feel "taken" just because a dealer said he was going to wholesale it and doesn't at first. Is all based on a business decision and one that is made by the higher ups on the dealership.
They may have also found out that the wholesale market had changed for that particular trade which could mean they would lose money if they went ahead and tried to wholesale it.
Bu I do see your point - it is so easy to lie to a customer and just say they have to wholesale the trade. I don't see the advantages of saying one thing to a customer and then do something else. Not very smart if you want to maintain solid customer trust.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I am looking for my wife now (no wait, I have a wife, I am looking for a car for her, yeah, that's it!), and for various reasons may end up going with a 5 year note (normally my rule was never more than 3, and pay it off early). But, anything we get will have at least 5 years on the PT, and we plan to keep it for at least 10 years (and only put on about 10K/year) so in the big scheme of things, not a worry)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The salesperson was definitely ambivalent; that whole deal about "maybe next week we can get you a better deal when the UCM is back" just struck me as lazy and unmotivated. The dealer has since relocated to new and impressive digs and hired a more effective sales team. The salesperson we are currently working with on the Mini is much more professional and already mentioned that she'd like to see me switch to an Audi- but I told her that I'm hopelessly biased towards RWD and inline sixes... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Exactly! When I was trading in a V8 dealers said I would have got more if I was trading a 6, if I had a 6 I would get more for a V8, if you have a manual they would give you more for an automatic, if you have a 2 door you would get more if you had a 4 door and on it goes.
With the last car they offer a low price because they can buy the same car at the "bmw auction" for a low price...blah blah blah.
All garbage talk......find out what your car is really worth and don't let them give you their phony stories. And, I think you do better these days if you switch makes. I think it was an advantage to stay with your brand a few years ago....dealers wanted your make on their lot.......these days manufacturers are more competitive and they want you to switch to their brand. That's just my opinion.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you go with AWD it will be like RWD with extra good handling and safety.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
All of us "American Boys" owe everything to immigration -
"America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts." “Remember, remember always, that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists.”
No person is "Illegal", we are all, in the end, just people -
“I take issue with many people's description of people being "Illegal" Immigrants. There aren't any illegal Human Beings as far as I'm concerned.”
My point is we should not dismiss immigrants simply because they entered the country "illegally". I do agree there should be some recognition that some immigrants did not use legal procedures. For people who contribute to society, I thing something like community service would suffice. We should also tighten the boarders, though a wall make no sense.
A quote regarding public schools -
"Public schools were designed as the great equalizers of our society - the place where all children could have access to educational opportunities to make something of themselves in adulthood."
No Child Left Behind was doomed from the start. Tying school funding to measureable goals like assessments makes no sense, far too simplistic. Each school is unique requiring unique solutions.
Education mandates at the national level are essential. We must not allow tyranny at the local level to defeat the purpose of public education. For example, there are communities in the South which believe teaching creation rather than science is education. We must not allow such silliness.
Not really. IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) Audi is F/AWD system. This means its really a FWD vehicle that when called for can direct a % of available power to the rear wheels. In day to day driving it will perform like FWD.
A BMW with AWD with be RWD based and apply power to the front wheels as needed. In normal driving it should perform similar to its RWD brothers.
I've gone back and forth between FWD and RWD a few times. To me it really doesn't matter. I can driver either in the snow, and my primary concern is a soft quiet ride so the handling advantage of RWD isn't a big deal to me.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I don't have time to research your premise, but I think it is a misconception. When I drive an Audi AWD car, there is absolutely NO torque steer, so I think the power is provided by the best combination of wheels at the time.
Most AWD cars are good, particularly Suburu, BMW and Audi. Many reviewers believe the Audi Quattro is best for snow.
I have to go to work so I can't give you the definitive answer, but I can only say from driving the car, if an Audi AWD is bias to FWD I would be very surprised.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I probably trade what most would consider "Cream Puffs", the vast majority of the time.. They are cars which have a combination (sometimes all) of low miles, desirable models, with desirable options, that have always been garaged, have been well cared for, and look good, in mainstream colors. I'd get...."we'd wholesale that" as a trade response, followed shortly by the "black book, Manhheim report, etc, which always shows the least a car would sell for at auction or what black book says (whichever is lowest). Two weeks later, it's on the lot.
That's why I always put my own number on my trade (based on research of what similar cars sell for in my area and what I feel is a reasonable figure where the dealer can make a reasonable profit).
Ordinarily, that number includes a "buy" offer from the used car dept of the dealer that sells that mark as new. I look at KBB, NADA, my bank's loan value on the car. Then, I come up with a number. It's normally somewhere between the straight "buy offer" and KBB/NADA.
That's the number I base part of my offer to buy their new car (another number I research thoroughly). All I really care about is the difference between the two.
A dealer can wax poetically all day about wholesaling or auctioning my trade. How the color isn't ideal. How the market is soft on my popular car these days, etc. What they do with the trade after we sign the deal paperwork doesn't matter to me. They can wholesale it, put it on their lot, drive it as a company demo (which has happened in the past on one of my very nice trades).
That's how I came up with my "one offer" way of buying a car. Either you can do it, or you can't. Regardless of the reasoning, if you can't, no harm, no foul. We'll shake hands and part ways. If you can, I just bought a car from you (and you get my trade).
In reality, I'm a real easy buyer. I try to set myself up to be in and out of a dealership in less than 90 minutes, to the acceptance of the deal (if they reject my deal, I'm out the door in 20 minutes), to F&I, to inspection, to driving off their lot.
*driver, remember my post about what Lexus wanted to originally give me for my 2012 E350? They wanted to give me $49000.00. The car had 4000 miles on it, originally listed for $62325.00 and was loaded. They gave me no excuses as to why they were giving me so little, just said, "...it will be very difficult for us to sell or wholesale such a car with low miles if we gave you any more!"
Well, I gave them the original Monrony Sticker from the Benz and I got them up to $52,000. That made the deal. They sold me the new car for invoice, and I originally paid $55300.00 for the Benz, so I made out great. But most people paid $60,000 for that same Benz.
To make a long story short, I was there for a car wash last week and my Benz was still on the lot. I asked the Managers why they hadn't wholesaled it or sold it yet, and they said quite frankly, "...We can't even get $50,000 on a wholesale sale and we've had no bites at $52,000, so we will take anything above $50,000 for it and lose a few bucks!"
*driver, there is an example of what dealers are up against if they overvalue a car, which they did with mine. They will probably lose $3,000 on the trade before it's all over. But of course, when things are average out, it really doesn't make much of a difference in the long run.
All I am trying to say is that when appraising a car, an appriaser must take into consideration many, many factors - and the most important factor is "what I can sell this car for" or "what can I wholesale this car for?" If he makes too many mistakes, he'll be collecting unemployment insurance quickly. I know you are very, very concerned over the fact that BMW offered you $4000 less than Audi, and you are angry over it. We all know this because you have posted this aggravation many, many, many times since you bought the Audi. All I'm trying to do is show you the car business from a variety of perspectives, rather than just one perspective.
All of us are always anti-dealer when it comes to buying cars and valuing our trades. It's part of the process - this distrust we all of for auto dealers. Remember, I, too, distrust them, just as much as you do and the rest of us here on this forum. I just tend to do better than most because I was lucky enough to be in the business as both a salesperson and as a sales manager. So I know all the tricks, the lying, etc. I'm able to go into a dealership, show them one of my previous business cards, and I am immediately on an equal playing field with them. But most of the rest of our friends here on this forum do not have that advantage, and that is why I try to help out as much as I can by relating stories, experiences, sharing my expertise, etc.
I am extremely empathetic with all of us on this forum as auto dealers are not friends of the buyer, they are enemies. Use some of my expertise in turning the tables on them next time you buy or lease a car.
1. Look up on Edmunds, kbb, cars.com, etc., the approximate value of your trade as a trade in, not as a private sale. Value it as GOOD, not perfect, because there is no such thing as a perfectly clean car. My Benz was perfectly clean, but I valued it as Good, and I got what I wanted. Next, go to several dealers and get their appraisals on a new car. If you average all the appraisals and all the listings from online sources, you will arrive at a fair trade-in value for your car. So, this part of buying a new car is settled.
2. Price the new car on Edmunds, kbb, cars.com, make note of invoice and determine any incentives. Now, you know what the car cost the dealer, within a few hundred bucks. Buying a car at $500 over invoice, give or take a few bucks, it exactly what most people think is fair once all incentives are taken into consideration.
3. Make offers at several dealerships, at about $500 over. One will make the deal, believe me, unlesss the car you want to buy is brand new on the market or newly redesigned.
I know I've posted this info before, but I though I would post it again. If anyone of our friends on this forum is going to buy a car, feel free to pick my brain. I haven't got much of anything else to do anyway.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Yes, *graphicguy, you are an easy buyer and an easy sale! You do your homework on both the trade and the new car. Read my post above, as I believe we are on the same page.
When I go into a dealership to buy a car, which is usually once a year, sometimes even twice, I am interested only in driving the car and determining if this is the car I want to drive for a year or so. I went into the Lexus dealership on a Saturday, having no intention of buying a new car. When I drove the GS350, I was truly infatuated by the technology, the ride, the handling, the acceleration, and the looks. They tried everything in their power to sit me down to buy the car, but I said I just didn't like the color, and the color I wanted was not available for another month.
I went home, did some research on the car, and found invoice as well as the fact that there was a conquested incentive of $1500. I researched my trade and Manheim said it was worth about $50,000 wholesale, but they had put only 2 cars through the sale, and I am sure both were Premium 1 cars, not Premium 2 cars. I knew what I paid for my Benz, so I deducted $4000 from my buy figure and settled on $51,000.
My Dad and I went over to the same dealership the next day, Sunday, and the next to the last day of the month. My Dad like the gray and the saddle interior, etc., so I decided to drive it one more time. At the end, I bought the car because I got what I wanted for the trade (actually $1000 more) and I paid dealer invoice. I also got a 60 month loan on $15,000 for 2.6% simple interest, also a good deal for 60 months.
Yes, it take lots and lots of homework and preparation to buy a new car, and if more people would take car buying as serioiusly as do you, *driver and me, as well as many of our friends here on this forum, things would be a lot better for all.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Audi Quattro drive delivers power to all four wheels equally, unless it is needed in other wheels. Read this simple explanation of how it works and why it works so well;
How Quattro Drive Works
I have to get back to work, but will check other posts soon,
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Two weeks later, it's on the lot.
Put me in your group too.
When the XG350 blew up I was starring at putting 3 grand into it because neither the dealer or Hyundai would do it as warranty work. The car was 7 years old but until this mishap it was a perfect car but I was growing a little tired of it even though it was Mrs. j’s car. I was almost ready to look at the Equss and use her car as the trade before any of this happened but I was trying to figure out how to pull that off and while I was procrastinating, the XG350 thing happened. Anyway, after I was told that it would not be covered under warranty I go into the show room and I’m looking at the Sonata Turbo just to see what that thing was going for. A salesman comes over and asks if he could help. I tell him the story and he’s just shaking his head. I said if you guys can give me a knock out deal on a Turbo because of what just went on in your service dept. I could be interested but you’re going to have to really do something for me. I told him I wanted a price on the XG350 as it sat and if I liked that we could talk about his car. He says he going to get a price for the XG350 as it sat with the blown engine. He comes back in about 20 minutes and tells me the used car manager would give me $2K even, as it sat. Of course I said that will never work because if it had a working engine the books said it would be worth around $6K as a trade, in the near perfect condition it was in. He then wants to know what I want. I said $2600. I figured by the time I paid 3 grand for the engine and added tax I might be able to get around $6K for the car in that condition but I would still be out a little more than $3K. FWIW, both of my sons said I’d never get anything near $6K but I disagreed with both of them about that. The salesman goes off and comes back with an offer of $2100 and says, “that’s it, the used car manager said he’d have to find a wholesaler for it and he’d be lucky to even get $2100 for it but to keep a customer he’d go up to $2100”. Nice guy, huh?
We all know that I bought Mrs. j the Subie in November 2011 and I did not use the XG350 as a trade. I was either going to sell it as it sat or have an engine dropped in it and sell it like that. After the Subie purchase I decided to go see the used car manager at the Hyundai store, where the XG350 sat in their parking lot waiting for me to come and get it or have them fix it. The used car manager said he remembered seeing the car and still had his paper work on the offer and he pulls it out and says, “yeah, here it is. I’ll give $2100 for it”. I said, “you know it’s worth more than that so that won’t work”. He asks what I want and I say $2900. He about falls off his chair and says, “OK, it’s worth more than 21 but I can’t give you 29, you have to know that yourself”. I said then we can’t do business today and as I’m pushing my chair back he says, “OK, you got a raw deal. Factory reps can be a real PITA to deal with but I don’t want you to go away with a bad taste in your mouth about us so I’ll give you $2800 but that’s as high as I can go”. That was good enough for me because that was more than I felt I was going to get for it so I took that offer, but I wasn’t going to take $2100, I knew that. Maybe $2300 just to feel good that I could bump him up a little but not $2100.
A week later, this car, that would have to be wholesaled, was on his lot for just under $10K. I don’t for a minute think that he got that for it but I think he probably got something just a little south of $8K for it.
They always seem to have a reason why they have to steal your trade even today with used cars bringing unbelievable prices.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
OK, it is a different system than I was thinking. I still have read some reviews that in terms of pure handling BMWs RWD biased system is better. I'm convinced in everyday driving it wouldn't matter.
I'll tell you one thing. I checked out the A4 on the website, and the interior looks fantastic.
When do you get yours?
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
That will teach you to stop procratinating! If you would have dropped 60K on an Equus none of this would have happened!
:P
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
It sounds like both your and *driver have had some bad experiences with trades, but trades are usually the stumbling blocks to make the deal everyone wants to make. The used car market has been quite good lately, which is why I am somewhat stymied as to why there is such a tremendous difference in the valuing of trades from one dealer to the next. I can see a thousand or two difference, but not $4,000 or $6,000. That is difficult for me to comprehend after being in the business.
Remember, often a dealer can put more into a car than it's worth because there are incentives on the new car that most people are unaware of. As an example, let's say that a car's real value as a wholesale piece is $5,500. The new car has a dealer incentive of $1500 on it. Thus, it is possible for the dealer to appraise the car for $7,000 even though it isn't worth that much. It's all a matter of creativity on the part of the dealership.
I wouldn't trust your dealer with my business, that's for sure. I don't like the smart-alicky way he did business with you. Can't stand liars and cheats. Gets to me, to be sure.
When I go in to buy a car, and I feel the dealership is being condescending, I leave. If I feel they are lying, I leave. They might try to get me back in the showroom after I had just left, but I turn and say to them, "...you had your chance and you blew it! Go take someone else for a ride, I'm not playing your game!"
We all have stories about dealerships and being cheated or lied to. Unfortunately, that is the nature of the beast. But because I know what the truth is by being prepared before going into a dealership, just like you were, *jmonroe, and *driver, we get what we expect - a good deal!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I never said there was anything wrong with immigration. Both sets of my grandparents, all four of them, got off a boat in the late 1890’s. However, they did it “legally and from what I heard, it wasn’t a drop dead given that you would get papers even back then but they waited their turn, kept applying and finally they did it “legally”. Please note that it was done “legally”.
No person is "Illegal", we are all, in the end, just people –
Ah...making your own laws, are you? Maybe because YOU don’t like someone YOU can shoot them. Do you really think the courts will agree with you about that? Ok, maybe you know better than that. How about not paying Federal taxes because you think they’re illegal and too high. Try that one and you’ll be posting a reply even later than getting back to my reply to you about immigration.
“I take issue with many people's description of people being "Illegal" Immigrants. There aren't any illegal Human Beings as far as I'm concerned.”
Very nice, bleeding hearts can always say it best. Just don’t forget that we have laws and they must be obeyed. If you don’t like them you’ll have to get them changed. We have a judge in here; maybe he can tell you how to go about doing that
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
When you traded your MB 350 for the Lexus, there may have been trunk money on the Benz, along with the Conquest money (what was that amount....$3K?).
I know the dealership my GF bought the S4 from also had a Benz and BMW store side-by-side-by-side to their Audi store. I originally pulled into the Benz side when I first arrived by mistake. They had a very nice E350 4Matic coupe sitting out front which I was eyeballing before heading into their Audi store next door.
A salesperson approached me (as I had my son's Accord which I was driving at the time). He asked if I was interested in the E (of course, who wouldn't be?). I told him I was there for the Audi store. He pointed me in the right direction. But, he also asked if I had another car, other than the Accord. I told him I actually owned a BMW. He said that there was $3K conquest cash on the E, if I was truly interested.
Relaying this to your E350 trade. Buy price was $60K. Take off the $3K for Conquest. You're at a solid $57K for a very nice, and NEW E350. Personally, if it were me? I'd go for the $57K new E350, vs $52K-$53K used one.
Seems like the dealer had a series of events which all hit at once which affected your trade. One of the very few times that a dealer has a unit which they over valued.
If I were in their shoes, I'd use your Benz trade as a Manager's car. Hold onto it a year. Write part of it off, and then sell it as a dealership executive car.
I came here in 2005 complaining about a used 2005 Mustang I was trying to buy 80 miles away. Did a phone call, got them to $22k and drove there in my trade which was a year newer than the Mustang. Once they discovered my trade had solid value of more than the Mustang, their Mustang popped back up to $24,995. No sale. Some salesman here asked if I had the $22k in writing. No, but I wrote down the conversation verbatim. Didn't matter. Dealer tricks. It's happened to all of us.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I will walk out of any dealer who attempts to hide rebate. I probably told this before but I'll tell it again.
My best friend's father had just passed away and his mother needed a new car. She wanted an Elantra. Hard loaded, with leather etc.
I was brought into the mix to help seek one out and do the deal. She has never purchased a car and my buddy hates it. I say no problem and start doing research.
Since she knew exactly what she wanted it was pretty easy to find. The local automall has the exact unit she will be happy with (Stickguy knows the place). I do some homework and look up the invoice price, rebates, etc.
I show all this to my buddy and his mother and was preparing to make an offer of invoice plus $250 minus rebate. I then added in taxes and a $100 doc fee to come up with an OTD number. This was a cash deal.
We get there and I allow them to make us their offer first. The salesman comes out and says "I can offer a great price" . I say let's see it. It was MSRP minus $1000. I look at him and say "where is your discount?"
He replies "what do you think the $1000 is?"
I explain that is from Hyundai, not the dealer.
He still insists, that is the discount.
I get up to leave (before even showing them our offer) and then the manager comes over. I explain I was not happy that he tried to "hide" the rebate and that I would give someone else the business. He asked what would get us to do the deal. I took my OTD # I had in my head and deducted the $250 and the DOC fee.
They took it, to move a unit. My buddy just shook his head and the mother was thrilled because the car cost even a bit less than she thought.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Most car buying services and websites recommend that buyers should lock in the final purchase price of a new car before talking trade. I am beginning to think perhaps the opposite is true.
If the sales manager can see the total picture then he can structure a deal that would benefit both parties. But if you talk trade after purchase then the dealer is probably going to low ball your trade since you do not have much bargaining power at this point.
Am I am wrong or does it really matter if you talk trade before or after purchase?
*graphicguy, I actually paid $55,300 for the $63,000 Benz because I used my USAA buying plan, which was invoice less $2000 at the time, and I also got $2000 additionally from MB Financial, because I had a loan with MB at the time. So, I actually used the new Mercedes for $3000 for 6 months, which is why I can buy cars frequently, as mentioned in a post a few months ago.
There was actually a $1500 conquest, which came off the bottom line as cash. As for Mercedes Benz, truly a geat car, especially their E350. I truly enjoyed owning them for 5 years, but you get tired of the same car after 5 years, as I did with BMW. It was time to venture forth into something different, and I did not see any advantage in going back to BMW, for sure, to drive yet another 535i, and I did not like Audi A6 or A7. LIked the A8, but I am not going to spend $85,000 for a car, any more than I would spend that on a 7 Series BMW or S Class Mercedes.
Lexus LS460 is just to much of a luxury, cushy car. But this new GS is truly a great car for the money, rides great, 4 difference settings for ride and handling, all the way up to Sport+ which really stiffens the car up nicely because it adjusts the shocks and sterring.
I always buy cars in the $50,000 to $60,000 range. USAA did not have any special deals on Lexus - they rarely do.
I can easily see myself back in a Mercedes Benz when they change the body style in 2014 or 2015. In the meantime, I am driving a 2013, and can see myself enjoying this car for a couple of years, which is strange for me to say, but with the economy the way it is right now, I am trying to conserve a little, financially.
In conclusion, yes we see things from the same perspective regarding trades and used cars and how to purchase new cars.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
When do you get yours?
There were lots of things we liked more about the A4 compared to the 335, and one is the interior. That has been the strong point for Audi for the last few years.
I think AWD offers superior handling and control, so in my opinion, an AWD car should handle better than even a RWD. My non-expert opinion is that BMW does specialize more in handling so I think they get the engineering right when it comes to cornering, steering and handling....but, for the average person, the Audi has superb handling.
By the time you put your order in it takes 2 to 3 months for Audi to build the car and ship it, and then prepare it in Canada. It comes by train from Halifax. They estimate it will arrive in late August or early September...kind of builds up the suspense.
I hear they are planning on making Audis in the US soon. That should cut costs and speed up delivery time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You know, over the 4th of July my sons and I got into a car discussion, hard to believe but it’s true. I pretty much mentioned that same line to Mrs. j and I have done this a time or two before and I always get the same LOOK.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The original MSRP was $62K. By the time they try to make a bit of profit on it they have to try to sell it for $55k. I would not have done this deal if I was the appraiser. Someone could buy the new one for less than $60K. Someone that can afford a $55K car would probably prefer getting a brand new one exactly the way they want it for $5K more.
I would question if I was a possible customer....why did some guy trade in an almost new Mercedes for a Lexus? There could be a very good reason, but it could also mean the previous owner had some real issues with the car.
I don't think I am that upset about the $4000 difference BMW offered me for the trade. I just think they were foolish to lose a sale, when the same car is being sold for about $8k to $10K more than they wanted to give me. I think they just made a very bad business decision. In fact I am not upset at all, because we found a car we like more. I just think what they did should be taught in auto selling school....how to lose a customer the easy way.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree. If you have a car to trade it’s going to come out sometime. So why not right at the beginning? When the dealer knows all the facts he can jumble the numbers all he wants as long as the end of the deal is what you want.
Maybe I say this because I think I know how the game works. I know it worked for me when I bought the Genny in ’09. In fact, I bumped them up $600 for the ’06 Sonata LX that was the trade. I would have settled for $350 more but they said OK to my wanting $600 more. They wanted my trade because that is where they were going to make their money on that deal.
It’s been said that “knowledge is power”. I’m not in need of any power. I just want what my research says I should get...on both ends.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Actually Audi decided to build its North American plant in Mexico.
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012/04/audi-opts-for-new-plant-in-mexico/