I will walk out on any dealer tries to hide a rebate
I was not talking about rebates or conquest money. I was talking about internal manufacturer's dealer cash available, at times, on certain cars or on a dealer reaching a goal of selling so many units. These incentives are not advertised because they are strictly between the dealer and the manufacturer.
So, if Audi has a special incentive for its dealers if they achieve a specific goal, that money can be used to reduce a possible loss on a trade, or enables the dealer to sell a car below invoice.
Do you understand what I am trying to communicate?
When I was a sales manager, I would often have $500 available in the form of a certificate that I could use to submit with a deal to the manufacturer to have a credit issued to the dealership. The certificate is between the dealer and the manufacturer, and has nothing to do with the buyer. These certificates might apply to any car model sold in a given month over 40 in a particular dealership. So the manufacturer would say to the dealership, "...for every Audi A4 sold in your dealership in July over 40, you will receive a $500 certificate which will reduce the invoice of that particular model by $500."
These are the types of incentives I was talking about, not available to customers or consumers!
Yes Mike I understand. I mis-read your post. I've just had what I explained happen more than once and find it dis-honest.
I can only imagine before the internet how many people didn't realize there were manufacturer rebates and the dealer basically sold the car at full MSRP.
Oh, without any doubt. There are many other types of dealer cash available from the manufacturer that a customer is not eligible for. These certificates can also be based on reaching a monthly or quarterly sales goal.
Remember in one of the recent posts we discussed the "shrinking differences" between invoice and MSRP? There really isn't a reduction in dealer profits because the loss of dealer profits from MSRP and invoices has been replaced by CSI cash to dealers for both sales and service, special certificates for achieving sales goals, etc., to name a few. Then, there is dealer, not customer, cash available on certain models and from the manufacturer's financing arm for achieving specific goals.
This information is not generally known to the public because it is strictly between the dealership and the manufacturer. It's what keeps the owners of dealerships in the plus column instead of the minus column.
but only invoice was a "real" number (in quotes, since as you note, manufacturers can adjust that as needed). MSRP is pretty much just a fantasy number to have as a starting point.
so what is the difference if invoice is 25, and MSRP was 28 but gets slashed to 27, if the real market selling price is 26k?
Actually Audi decided to build its North American plant in Mexico.
Thanks for the article, that was very interesting. I was sure they would locate it next to the Passat plant in Chatanooga. But, with labor costs being $8 compared to $50 it really makes sense.
People don't like to wait these days so having the plant in Mexico will really speed up deliveries. Ordering from Europe takes almost 3 months, if you order a Passat made in Chatanooga it takes 4 to 6 weeks.
I wonder what all the workers in the USA are going to be left making in a few years. :confuse:
VW built some cars in Mexico and they build a ton in Brazil. For a company who wants to make gains in the US to build a plant in Mexico to build Audi's for US sales is pure heresey!!! I would not buy a car from Audi if they build it in Mexico! Any more than I would buy any car here that is built in the western hemisphere that is not built in the USA. I don't mind buying a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes built in Germany, but if they are purposely bypassing The USA, they will never earn my business - NEVER EVER!!!
I don't buy American cars because the do not appeal to me. Many Japanese and Korean cars are built here in the USA. But for Audi to snub the USA for its new plant is unforgivable! That's just the way I feel. I don't mean to slight any of you Forum members, but I am an American, and I have a right to buy what I want from wherever I want.
But for Audi to snub the USA for its new plant is unforgivable!
Your principles are very noble, but business is business. If you can build the same car, for a lot less money in Mexico, you have to do it.
I remember when I was about 13 years old I wanted to buy a transister radio, and I specifically wanted an American make...none of that stuff made in Japan! The salesman showed me a Zenith, made in America, it was big, bulky, ugly, cost much more than the Japanese model. How patriotic are you when it comes down to it? I would have been crazy to buy the Zenith.
Where are your TVs made? People will buy the best product they can and will gravitate to the one that costs the least. The world is a global marketplace. Mexicans need money so they can build products you can make in the U.S. Companies like Apple make products where it suits them....and people buy their products because they represent a good value.
Labor is the biggest cost in making a car. If you can make a car for $1000s of dollars less, and the quality can be maintained, you won't stay in business unless you build it where you can do that.
When I bought the ’09 Genny V8 from a dealer in Ohio, I got his internet price and compared it to what Edmunds TMV was and what the 2 locals guys could do, even if they had the color I wanted, which neither of them had (Cabernet Red Pearl). This guy in Ohio had a jaw dropping price as far as Son #1 and I were concerned as a result of our research on this newly introduced car. I tried to get it for less but he did not budge one cent. Ok, I tried and I agreed to his price for his car. I’ve already told about getting $600 more for my car so now I’m ready make the deal.
From my first call to the salesman to get info on the car I was going to pay cash and he knew it. I wasn’t in favor of giving Mrs. j (the one who handles the check book in our house) any monthly reminders that I was getting a toy that she was not thrilled about to begin with. I’d take her best shot once but I wasn’t going to be shot at every month for a few years. So, I figured cash was the best way to make this purchase.
While doing my research here at Edmunds and other sites I saw that I was eligible for a Hyundai $500 loyalty discount because I had an ’06 Sonata LX that I was trading in and that I knew about. That was just gravy because I was still going to make the purchase even if they didn’t have that program going on at the time.
Now for my question:
After we come to terms for the sale, with me getting $600 more for my trade, the F&I guy now comes over to the salesman’s desk where Mrs. j, Son #1 and I are sitting and says, “I just saw on my computer when I turned it on this morning that you are eligible for a $750 discount if you agree to finance at least $10K”. I can’t remember now what the rate was but it was a little less than what I could get from my local bank before I gave up on that idea for the previously mentioned reason. He goes on to say, “since you were willing to pay cash anyway I thought you might be interested because I doubt that you have any credit problems. So, what do you want to do”? Well, what I want to do is save money. In all of my research I did not see this offered. Even after I bought the car and took the minimum $10K financing offer I never saw this on any car site or even Hyundai’s site. I’m guessing that they wanted to make a little more via the credit they get for bringing financing to Hyundai. The F&I guy did say that he’d like me to finance the car for at least three months then at the third payment just pay it off if I wanted to but do at least 3 months.
Son #1 hears this and pulls out his financial calculator and punches in some numbers and says, “that sounds like a good deal but I hope you know that you aren’t going to save all of that $750 even if you only finance for just the 3 months. But, it looks like you will still save something over $620, though”. I have heard of buyers agreeing to this 3 month thing then paying off the loan immediately and then the F&I guy gets nothing. Since I would not have saved a little over $600 if he didn’t bring this to my attention, I (she) made payments for those three months then paid it off. That I felt was the fair thing to do. I’m not a total grouch about things involving money.
So, was I correct about my guess that somebody made at least something additional because I did the 3 month financing thing and somehow it was worth it to them?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
*jmonroe, your guess is as good as mine! It is quite possible that he made $50-$100 out of that maneuver, because there is always a little mark-up on the rate. Usually, the difference between what the dealer's "buy rate" is and the consumer's rate is comes to about 1%. When I got the loan on my Mercedes, the advertised rate for tier 1 credit was 1.9% a 1% mark up for the dealer. That is how I was able to get .9% for 60 months.
Does it really matter when to talk about your trade-in: Before or after purchase?
I've done it every which way and it doesn't matter, as long as you know what the new car is selling for, and what your trade is worth on the wholesale market.
I think, it is a little more logical to make sure the price they give you on the new car sounds good to you. And, then see what they say about the trade. At some point you need to know the price of both, so you can go back and forth and work on the price of the new one and/or your trade and come to a satisfactory price.
dealer's "buy rate" is and the consumer's rate is comes to about 1%.
You know, when I read JMs post it occurred to me that car manufacturers are sometimes heavy in cash, and they want to expand their sales, so they throw in their own cash to sell cars. I am not an accountant, and I am not great on financial matters, but it seems to me this is a smart way to sell more cars. People love buying a car with low interest loans, and if the manufacturer is going to lower the interest rates, it could be very compelling for some buyers to take them up on the offer.
My way out guess is Hyundai was offering this rate to entice customers. The salesman was smart enough and nice enough to offer the special deal to JM even though he didn't need it or want it. But, it was a nice jesture and might have made him a more loyal customer for that salesman.
>My point is we should not dismiss immigrants simply because they entered the country "illegally". I do agree there should be some recognition that some immigrants did not use legal procedures. For people who contribute to society, I thing something like community service would suffice.
It's improper to try to justify someone's being here illegally as something that's just sort of okay because they're a human being afterall. There are laws stating how someone is supposed to gain permission to come into this country based on quotas. Why should some be excused for having ignored those rules?
This post is doing just that: trying to excuse people violating laws. But then that has become common even in the top reaches of our government.
It's also ridiculous to have a country like Mexico lecture us about having to allow people from Mexico into our country illegally while they themselves treat illegal crossing of their SOUTHERN border very harshly.
Try violating some of the laws like IRS collection laws and see if the government accepts the "kid gloves" excuse me it's nothing to worry about treatment.
The dealers are quite aware that you drove to the dealership in a car! The first question I used to ask my customers was, "...are you planning to trade your vehicle?" I asked that question just before we started negotiations. If the customer said "NO", I moved on to the next set of questions, but knew that 75% of all purchases (not leases) involved a trade so we would start negotiations knowing full well that the trade was goning to come into the deal.
Of this is the mindset of the dealership, why play games? You derive no advantage by withholding the truth. Dealership personnel read the same advice columns on Edmunds and KBB as you do and know that they advise to keep the trade out until the last minute. On the other side, the dealer knows for the most part that the trade will enter the picture sooner or later.
I always am up front about the trade and let them know that from the start. I also let them know what their invoice is for the new car and what I expect for the trade. That lets them know that if they are going to make a deal, it's going to be a very short deal for them. That gets management involved immediately which is what you really want to do.
>Education mandates at the national level are essential.
I keep having trouble finding in the Constitution where funding and controlling schools is part of the federal government's responsibilities. It ain't there. Funding is a State's Right and Responsibility. The federal government needs to butt out. Perhaps the clipping of the Commerce Clause excuse by the SC will bring some reality to the self enlargement of the federal government with powers they are not supposed to have.
"...the dealers are quite aware that you drove to the dealership in a car..."
I solve that problem by driving into the dealership in cars that no lot in their right mind would want to buy. I remember on one of my car purchases where the salesman looked out at my car and asked "you're not trading THAT in....are you?" :lemon:
It really freaked him out when I said I would be paying cash.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But, with labor costs being $8 compared to $50 it really makes sense.
The company I work for has moved millions of dollars of "value-added" production to Mexico (Chihuahua) or the Czech Republic. It turns out that the primary reason has to do with corporate tax rates.
I try to catch the programming on the Velocity Channel on cable. Does anyone else watch this cable channel?
Like right now, they have a program on called "WHEELER DEALERS" where they buy run down older vehicles and either restore them or bring them back to life and then resell them. They show you a step by step story on how they find the cars, how they repair and restore them, and then how they sell them.
They also have a show called "CHASING CLASSIC CARS" with Wayne Carrini. He locates rare classics and owns a restoration business. They show how he restores them and then takes them to auction.
Both shows are a must see if you enjoy restoration and the search for classic cars to restore and auction.
$27.5K for a FOCUS????? That's insane... :sick: Wow, talking inflation. I understand this is not same old Focus, but 27 grand???? Unless it has 5 thousand cash rebate (it does not), I don't know...
Ten years ago I paid less than 24 grand for a pocket-rocket WRX. Back then "regular" four cylinder compact cars would rarely cross 20 grand - and if it did, you either got a souped-up engine, or all options under the Sun. 27 grand is a six-cylinder midsize territory. Not all of them, no other options, but still.
This is Consumer Reports school of buying cars. I don't particularly think it has any real advantage, except perhaps for people who cannot handle more than one-two numbers at a time - which may be half of this beautiful country...
To the other half, it should make no difference whether they get purchase price and trade offer at the same time, or not.
Nice to have all of you experienced "sub-hosts" here , particularly while I was away at monthly wine club.
A bit of politics creeps in now & then, but we try to stay as far away as we can from that subject, and similar ones like religion and unions. The first two, we shun here almost entirely, and the latter, well... we have a separate discussion for that.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
dino001, You hit the nail on the head. A new Focus ST, 2.0 turbo(250 hp) maxes out at about the same price. The auto trans on the non ST is another $1100. Wow... pretty much covers it.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Boy, *dino, handling one or two numbers at a time doesn't say ver much about our educational system, does it?
Let's face it, if a car buyer takes a few hours to research his trade online and the invoice of the new car online, it sure pays off in making the car buying process less iffy and/or frustrating. When I was in the business, it made my life and job so much less stressful when a customer came in with printed copies of kbb or Edmunds trade valuations and invoice info on the exact car the customer wanted. If the customer said he wanted "x dollars" for his trade and would pay $500 over invoice for the new car, I would make the deal immediately, so long as there was no major departure from trade value as shown on Manheim. My philosophy was simple - why go back and forth with negotiations with a customer who might pay $100 more and take an hour or so to get that $100? Made no sense.
The most important part of selling a car to a knowledgeable and well-prepared buyer is to make sure to have him select the exact car off the lot or identify one that was incoming from the port. If a customer wanted to place an order for a car, I was less tempted to sell it for $500 over because there was no advantage to the dealership to delay the sale for 6-8 weeks and then run into problems with the trade 8 weeks down the road.
Remember, the average consumer advice is directed at people who would start their car deal conversation "I don't want to pay more than X per month", which you and I know is equivalent to saying "I have no clue what I'm doing - hit me with all you've got". Those people often have a vague concept of cost, profit, interest rate. All they can handle is one number - monthly payment.
All they can handle it is one number - monthly payment...
*dino, monthly payment shoppers/buyers are the most dangerous customers in the world - TO THEMSELVES!!! But, even back 5 or 6 years ago, there were very few of those, except leasing customers, who are all monthly payment shoppers , for the most part. They don't care how they or you get there, just keep my monthly payments below $500 a month (lease buyers).
Car buyers looking to own their cars seemed to be more interested in terms, such as length of loan, interest rates and down payment. I found it much easier to lease a car to a customer than to sell a car to a customer. The monthly payment buyer is the easiest sale for a car dealership. The all cash customer was always the most difficult customer to sell. At least those are from my experiences as a salesperson as well as a sales manager.
Yes, *stickguy, I saw that tonight. I love that show. The have another new episode next Wednesday evening at 9:00 PM eastern daylight time. Yes, they have some great shows on that channel, but Wheeler Dealers and Chasing Classic Cars are my two favorites! Love those shows!
It may be because it is much easier to make deal look better for a payment buyer than cash buyer. It may also be because cash buyer is less motivated than payment/lease buyer. Cash buyer may want the product, but mental excercise to part with big chunk of money is much harder than some "per month" number. When letting go thousands of dollars all at once, the sense of loss is definitely much higher than paying every month. Monthly payment allows you never see big pile of money, it disapears before. Cash purchase means there is literally pile of money and it is transferred to somebody else.
Morever, cash buyer usually knows their own value and has better awareness of power of their money, whereas lease buyer, especially one who is interested in keeping it "under" some amount is in much weaker position, which in turn makes them much more "hungry" for the car they can later brag about, especially if they got a "great deal" of 499/month.
Very late but just popping in to let you know I am reporting from HOME!! As in here. To stay. With all my stuff. As in NOT a visit!
I have a long ways to go yet - probably a year or more - but now I can go into NYC every couple of weeks and be done. This I can live with.
First trip from here since I was admitted to the hospital back in early March is 7/23. Will deal with the doc and then go back to Hope Lodge and play for my now friends.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Nah, don't worry... I didn't shoot anybody. The wife and I bought a "new" 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, which will be her primary ride. I'll trying hanging onto my Buick Regal for another year or two.
We decided to try to keep to a larger size vehicle for travel purposes. So after test driving the Veracruz, it seemed to fit all our needs. Ample room to seat 7, all the safty features, sunroof, power liftgate, sporty looking, price, nice interior, comfortable and powerful ride witht he 3.8 260hp engine, front seat bun warmers, bluetooth ,and a first aid kit (for whoever messes with a member from "Team Jipster'.) :mad:
The Veracruz GLS was a lot demo with 6,000 miles. MSRP was $32,000. Sale price was $27,000 (included mileage discount and dealership discount). I guess that's okay. The wife really liked it, so what are you gonna do?
As witht he MPV, the dealership was getting ready to close. We were gonna go home, the general manager says to me, "if we can get you a crazy price on that suv, you interested?". I say what my definition of a great price is and yours is probably different, but you are welcome to try against one of Edmunds finest!
(to be continued.. I'm tired from counting out all that money I handed over a few hours ago) :sick:
Great to hear, *fezo! At least you are free of that "ball and chain" tying you away from home. Just keep getting stronger and keep us up to date on your progress.
Just curious, jip. Did you check out the Ford Escape as an alternative before buying? (I'm a fan of the Escape) What made you buy the Veracruz over anything else you tested?
Prepare for the wrath of jmonroe for buying a Hyundai.
If a customer wanted to place an order for a car, I was less tempted to sell it for $500 over
I only remember buying one car from the lot, and I ordered about maybe 15.
What percentage of people buy a car from stock? The chances of having a car with the right equipment and color seem pretty slim to me. Unless you are Isell and color, equipment or make don't matter.
just popping in to let you know I am reporting from HOME!!
Nice to have you home. Now, catch up with the 100 or so posts you have missed for the last 2 days. The good news is "You are really going to appreciate your own house".
I bought a "new" car once with a few hundred miles on it. They said the owner drove it for a couple of weeks. Then I found a french fry on the floor beside the seat. That pretty well took the "new" out of that purchase.
The Veracruz was compared to the Lexus RX when it first came out. It is a nice SUV (I have sat in them at the dealer). Very roomy and Hyundai's 3.8 is a nice engine (decent MPG and low end torque).
Did you check out the Ford Escape as an alternative before buying? (I'm a fan of the Escape) What made you buy the Veracruz over anything else you tested?
Ford Escape would be too small. My mother-in-law has a Mercury Mariner, sibling to the Escape or Explorer, can't recall. Would have been great for a 5 seater, but too small otherwise. And we did test drive the Hyundai Santa Fe, which was my first choice. But wife liked the 7 passenger seating and overall space of the Veracruz.
In looking at midsize suv's in general, most either didn't have 3rd row seating, or the seating was too small. i.e Toyota Highlander. The ones with larger 3rd row seating were generally priced much higher.
So the Veracruz was actually the first vehicle we looked at in person. It seemed to be the perfect fit. I have never been a great fan of buying "demos". But, it only had 6,000 miles ( I did check for french fries and found none)... looked just as "new" as the 2012's.The price seemed right, warranty expanded to 20 years/200000 miles by dealership.
Whoa....lots happened in a day. Jipster....great on the Veracruz. I've always liked those and if in the market for a crossover, that would have been near the top of the list of what I'd be looking at. Congrats!
Fezo...WOW....even more great news. That's wonderful that you're home. Must feel great.
Mike....love Chasing Classic Cars and Wheeler Dealer. Didn't get to see WD last night as the GF had some friends over for their "wine club" (go ahead and make the joke....I always do). Who can watch TV when there's a bunch of females drinking different wines and telling stories that get more and more....ummm...."blue", the more wine they drink. Actually, it's pretty funny!
I know the American version of Top Gear (is it still on?) is absolutely dreadful. But, if there was another program that would deserve an American version, it would be Wheeler Dealer. I know on a couple of the shows, they actually came to the states to fix up and sell a Chevy Pickup, a Dodge Charger, and a Chevy Belair. Thoroughly enjoyed those.
Thanks. I was a bit surprised at the power and acceleration during the test drive. Wish the mpg were a bit better. Seems to be right around what we got from the Mazda MPV we traded in.
Below is a photo link if anyone wants to take a look. It's at Oxmoor Hyundai, which has been booed here before, but they own both Hyundai dealerships in Louisville. It's in the new car section, the very first listing.
Wheeler Dealers is great as is CCC with Wayne. His knowledge is pretty amazing and I love when he goes on "shopping trips" for cars with clients. I just can't imagine those auctions and the amount of money getting thrown around.
The Belair episode was good, especially when they car caught on fire.
Fezo, must feel great to be home.
"wine club"
GG, funny you mention this. Two of my Fiance's bridesmaids showed up last night (after planning something for the wedding) and the conversations between them were quite interesting to say the least!
I just sat on the couch watching TV, sipping a beer.
We had our food tasting last night for the wedding. I'm still full. They brought out a full spread of appetizers, a salad, six entrees each (said they were half portions, still big), dessert and all the cocktails you wanted. It was a great experience and re-assured us this is the right venue. Not that it mattered because its only 3 months out and they have a sizeable amount of our money!
Below is a photo link if anyone wants to take a look.
Congratulations and nice looking vehicle. There is no doubt, you get a lot of vehicle for the money with a Hyundai, unless you are JMonroe.
Now, did you use the Jipst Method, because it sounds like you thought the price was fair and you didn't have to wrestle the poor salesman down to the ground?
Congratulations on the new car. I appreciated the dealer link showing the vehicle. I like that they gave a map on the page. I hear the advertisements for the dealer or group on 840 all the time, if I'm remembering right. I wondered where they were located. Now I know they're just off the Watterson in the St. Matthews mall exit area.
Is that the dealer who a couple years back was running sexually suggestive commercials that were cute but a little over-the-top for daytime radio?
There is something strange going on with this forum. Last night I could not get in here from home because Edmunds did not recognize my email/password so I had to wait until I got to work this morning to answer this post. Then when I tried to get in from favorites here at work the first time that didn’t work so I had to get in through the Forms tab on the Edmunds home page. The second time I tried it through favorites, same thing. I waited a few minutes then tried my favorites again and that time it worked. I smashed my keyboard at home pretty good the other night so I thought that fixed my problem there, but like a three year old, it needs another whack to make it believe I’m serious about this. Anybody else having this problem? NO NO !!!!, do not suggest that ‘richard’ makes a house call to check out my wiring.
I can’t explain this work thing but it seems to be OK now although it is a little slower than usual.
It is quite possible that he made $50-$100 out of that maneuver, because there is always a little mark-up on the rate.
That is my take on it!
Mike Thanks for trying to answer this. I guess a dealership can do almost anything to make an extra buck or two. In the end I still saved a little over $600 so I guess I was just a little curious about this last minute thing about a “discount”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There is something strange going on with this forum. Last night I could not get in here from home because Edmunds did not recognize my email/password so I had to wait until I got to work this morning to answer this post. Then when I tried to get in from favorites here at work the first time that didn’t work so I had to get in through the Forms tab on the Edmunds home page
I've had exactly same problem for weeks now on one of my computers (small laptop), when using Explorer. The website works fine with two other computers (desktops) that I have access to, both also using IE and Windows 7. So go figure. I went as fas as downloading Firefox on the laptop and the website now works fine with it. Really weird stuff :confuse:
this site is always up and down, and tends to run (load) very slow at times. Then I will get a error screen that the site is not found (or some such).
this AM, I noticed it being particularly slow, but a little later on, it was flying (pages opening quick, etc.). So hopefully they were doing an upgrade that will actually work!
Comments
I was not talking about rebates or conquest money. I was talking about internal manufacturer's dealer cash available, at times, on certain cars or on a dealer reaching a goal of selling so many units. These incentives are not advertised because they are strictly between the dealer and the manufacturer.
So, if Audi has a special incentive for its dealers if they achieve a specific goal, that money can be used to reduce a possible loss on a trade, or enables the dealer to sell a car below invoice.
Do you understand what I am trying to communicate?
When I was a sales manager, I would often have $500 available in the form of a certificate that I could use to submit with a deal to the manufacturer to have a credit issued to the dealership. The certificate is between the dealer and the manufacturer, and has nothing to do with the buyer. These certificates might apply to any car model sold in a given month over 40 in a particular dealership. So the manufacturer would say to the dealership, "...for every Audi A4 sold in your dealership in July over 40, you will receive a $500 certificate which will reduce the invoice of that particular model by $500."
These are the types of incentives I was talking about, not available to customers or consumers!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I can only imagine before the internet how many people didn't realize there were manufacturer rebates and the dealer basically sold the car at full MSRP.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Oh, without any doubt. There are many other types of dealer cash available from the manufacturer that a customer is not eligible for. These certificates can also be based on reaching a monthly or quarterly sales goal.
Remember in one of the recent posts we discussed the "shrinking differences" between invoice and MSRP? There really isn't a reduction in dealer profits because the loss of dealer profits from MSRP and invoices has been replaced by CSI cash to dealers for both sales and service, special certificates for achieving sales goals, etc., to name a few. Then, there is dealer, not customer, cash available on certain models and from the manufacturer's financing arm for achieving specific goals.
This information is not generally known to the public because it is strictly between the dealership and the manufacturer. It's what keeps the owners of dealerships in the plus column instead of the minus column.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
so what is the difference if invoice is 25, and MSRP was 28 but gets slashed to 27, if the real market selling price is 26k?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Thanks for the article, that was very interesting. I was sure they would locate it next to the Passat plant in Chatanooga. But, with labor costs being $8 compared to $50 it really makes sense.
People don't like to wait these days so having the plant in Mexico will really speed up deliveries. Ordering from Europe takes almost 3 months, if you order a Passat made in Chatanooga it takes 4 to 6 weeks.
I wonder what all the workers in the USA are going to be left making in a few years. :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
VW built some cars in Mexico and they build a ton in Brazil. For a company who wants to make gains in the US to build a plant in Mexico to build Audi's for US sales is pure heresey!!! I would not buy a car from Audi if they build it in Mexico! Any more than I would buy any car here that is built in the western hemisphere that is not built in the USA. I don't mind buying a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes built in Germany, but if they are purposely bypassing The USA, they will never earn my business - NEVER EVER!!!
I don't buy American cars because the do not appeal to me. Many Japanese and Korean cars are built here in the USA. But for Audi to snub the USA for its new plant is unforgivable! That's just the way I feel. I don't mean to slight any of you Forum members, but I am an American, and I have a right to buy what I want from wherever I want.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Your principles are very noble, but business is business. If you can build the same car, for a lot less money in Mexico, you have to do it.
I remember when I was about 13 years old I wanted to buy a transister radio, and I specifically wanted an American make...none of that stuff made in Japan! The salesman showed me a Zenith, made in America, it was big, bulky, ugly, cost much more than the Japanese model. How patriotic are you when it comes down to it? I would have been crazy to buy the Zenith.
Where are your TVs made? People will buy the best product they can and will gravitate to the one that costs the least. The world is a global marketplace. Mexicans need money so they can build products you can make in the U.S. Companies like Apple make products where it suits them....and people buy their products because they represent a good value.
Labor is the biggest cost in making a car. If you can make a car for $1000s of dollars less, and the quality can be maintained, you won't stay in business unless you build it where you can do that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
From my first call to the salesman to get info on the car I was going to pay cash and he knew it. I wasn’t in favor of giving Mrs. j (the one who handles the check book in our house) any monthly reminders that I was getting a toy that she was not thrilled about to begin with. I’d take her best shot once but I wasn’t going to be shot at every month for a few years.
While doing my research here at Edmunds and other sites I saw that I was eligible for a Hyundai $500 loyalty discount because I had an ’06 Sonata LX that I was trading in and that I knew about. That was just gravy because I was still going to make the purchase even if they didn’t have that program going on at the time.
Now for my question:
After we come to terms for the sale, with me getting $600 more for my trade, the F&I guy now comes over to the salesman’s desk where Mrs. j, Son #1 and I are sitting and says, “I just saw on my computer when I turned it on this morning that you are eligible for a $750 discount if you agree to finance at least $10K”. I can’t remember now what the rate was but it was a little less than what I could get from my local bank before I gave up on that idea for the previously mentioned reason. He goes on to say, “since you were willing to pay cash anyway I thought you might be interested because I doubt that you have any credit problems. So, what do you want to do”? Well, what I want to do is save money. In all of my research I did not see this offered. Even after I bought the car and took the minimum $10K financing offer I never saw this on any car site or even Hyundai’s site. I’m guessing that they wanted to make a little more via the credit they get for bringing financing to Hyundai. The F&I guy did say that he’d like me to finance the car for at least three months then at the third payment just pay it off if I wanted to but do at least 3 months.
Son #1 hears this and pulls out his financial calculator and punches in some numbers and says, “that sounds like a good deal but I hope you know that you aren’t going to save all of that $750 even if you only finance for just the 3 months. But, it looks like you will still save something over $620, though”. I have heard of buyers agreeing to this 3 month thing then paying off the loan immediately and then the F&I guy gets nothing. Since I would not have saved a little over $600 if he didn’t bring this to my attention, I (she) made payments for those three months then paid it off. That I felt was the fair thing to do. I’m not a total grouch about things involving money.
So, was I correct about my guess that somebody made at least something additional because I did the 3 month financing thing and somehow it was worth it to them?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
*jmonroe, your guess is as good as mine! It is quite possible that he made $50-$100 out of that maneuver, because there is always a little mark-up on the rate. Usually, the difference between what the dealer's "buy rate" is and the consumer's rate is comes to about 1%. When I got the loan on my Mercedes, the advertised rate for tier 1 credit was 1.9% a 1% mark up for the dealer. That is how I was able to get .9% for 60 months.
That is my take on it!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I've done it every which way and it doesn't matter, as long as you know what the new car is selling for, and what your trade is worth on the wholesale market.
I think, it is a little more logical to make sure the price they give you on the new car sounds good to you. And, then see what they say about the trade.
At some point you need to know the price of both, so you can go back and forth and work on the price of the new one and/or your trade and come to a satisfactory price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You know, when I read JMs post it occurred to me that car manufacturers are sometimes heavy in cash, and they want to expand their sales, so they throw in their own cash to sell cars. I am not an accountant, and I am not great on financial matters, but it seems to me this is a smart way to sell more cars. People love buying a car with low interest loans, and if the manufacturer is going to lower the interest rates, it could be very compelling for some buyers to take them up on the offer.
My way out guess is Hyundai was offering this rate to entice customers. The salesman was smart enough and nice enough to offer the special deal to JM even though he didn't need it or want it. But, it was a nice jesture and might have made him a more loyal customer for that salesman.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's improper to try to justify someone's being here illegally as something that's just sort of okay because they're a human being afterall. There are laws stating how someone is supposed to gain permission to come into this country based on quotas. Why should some be excused for having ignored those rules?
This post is doing just that: trying to excuse people violating laws. But then that has become common even in the top reaches of our government.
It's also ridiculous to have a country like Mexico lecture us about having to allow people from Mexico into our country illegally while they themselves treat illegal crossing of their SOUTHERN border very harshly.
Try violating some of the laws like IRS collection laws and see if the government accepts the "kid gloves" excuse me it's nothing to worry about treatment.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The dealers are quite aware that you drove to the dealership in a car! The first question I used to ask my customers was, "...are you planning to trade your vehicle?" I asked that question just before we started negotiations. If the customer said "NO", I moved on to the next set of questions, but knew that 75% of all purchases (not leases) involved a trade so we would start negotiations knowing full well that the trade was goning to come into the deal.
Of this is the mindset of the dealership, why play games? You derive no advantage by withholding the truth. Dealership personnel read the same advice columns on Edmunds and KBB as you do and know that they advise to keep the trade out until the last minute. On the other side, the dealer knows for the most part that the trade will enter the picture sooner or later.
I always am up front about the trade and let them know that from the start. I also let them know what their invoice is for the new car and what I expect for the trade. That lets them know that if they are going to make a deal, it's going to be a very short deal for them. That gets management involved immediately which is what you really want to do.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I keep having trouble finding in the Constitution where funding and controlling schools is part of the federal government's responsibilities. It ain't there. Funding is a State's Right and Responsibility. The federal government needs to butt out. Perhaps the clipping of the Commerce Clause excuse by the SC will bring some reality to the self enlargement of the federal government with powers they are not supposed to have.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I solve that problem by driving into the dealership in cars that no lot in their right mind would want to buy. I remember on one of my car purchases where the salesman looked out at my car and asked "you're not trading THAT in....are you?" :lemon:
It really freaked him out when I said I would be paying cash.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That was a good one!!! Have to remember that.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The company I work for has moved millions of dollars of "value-added" production to Mexico (Chihuahua) or the Czech Republic. It turns out that the primary reason has to do with corporate tax rates.
Go figure.
I try to catch the programming on the Velocity Channel on cable. Does anyone else watch this cable channel?
Like right now, they have a program on called "WHEELER DEALERS" where they buy run down older vehicles and either restore them or bring them back to life and then resell them. They show you a step by step story on how they find the cars, how they repair and restore them, and then how they sell them.
They also have a show called "CHASING CLASSIC CARS" with Wayne Carrini. He locates rare classics and owns a restoration business. They show how he restores them and then takes them to auction.
Both shows are a must see if you enjoy restoration and the search for classic cars to restore and auction.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
http://www.inventory.ford.com/services/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FAHP3N21- - CL432325&refid=FV
If I could get a deal on it, hmmm.
Ten years ago I paid less than 24 grand for a pocket-rocket WRX. Back then "regular" four cylinder compact cars would rarely cross 20 grand - and if it did, you either got a souped-up engine, or all options under the Sun. 27 grand is a six-cylinder midsize territory. Not all of them, no other options, but still.
Wow...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
To the other half, it should make no difference whether they get purchase price and trade offer at the same time, or not.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
A bit of politics creeps in now & then, but we try to stay as far away as we can from that subject, and similar ones like religion and unions. The first two, we shun here almost entirely, and the latter, well... we have a separate discussion for that.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
You hit the nail on the head.
A new Focus ST, 2.0 turbo(250 hp) maxes out at about the same price.
The auto trans on the non ST is another $1100. Wow... pretty much covers it.
Boy, *dino, handling one or two numbers at a time doesn't say ver much about our educational system, does it?
Let's face it, if a car buyer takes a few hours to research his trade online and the invoice of the new car online, it sure pays off in making the car buying process less iffy and/or frustrating. When I was in the business, it made my life and job so much less stressful when a customer came in with printed copies of kbb or Edmunds trade valuations and invoice info on the exact car the customer wanted. If the customer said he wanted "x dollars" for his trade and would pay $500 over invoice for the new car, I would make the deal immediately, so long as there was no major departure from trade value as shown on Manheim. My philosophy was simple - why go back and forth with negotiations with a customer who might pay $100 more and take an hour or so to get that $100? Made no sense.
The most important part of selling a car to a knowledgeable and well-prepared buyer is to make sure to have him select the exact car off the lot or identify one that was incoming from the port. If a customer wanted to place an order for a car, I was less tempted to sell it for $500 over because there was no advantage to the dealership to delay the sale for 6-8 weeks and then run into problems with the trade 8 weeks down the road.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2018 430i Gran Coupe
coincidentally, I am watching a W-D episode right now. They have have a new one on tonight (a MB SL I believe)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
*dino, monthly payment shoppers/buyers are the most dangerous customers in the world - TO THEMSELVES!!! But, even back 5 or 6 years ago, there were very few of those, except leasing customers, who are all monthly payment shoppers , for the most part. They don't care how they or you get there, just keep my monthly payments below $500 a month (lease buyers).
Car buyers looking to own their cars seemed to be more interested in terms, such as length of loan, interest rates and down payment. I found it much easier to lease a car to a customer than to sell a car to a customer. The monthly payment buyer is the easiest sale for a car dealership. The all cash customer was always the most difficult customer to sell. At least those are from my experiences as a salesperson as well as a sales manager.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Yes, *stickguy, I saw that tonight. I love that show. The have another new episode next Wednesday evening at 9:00 PM eastern daylight time. Yes, they have some great shows on that channel, but Wheeler Dealers and Chasing Classic Cars are my two favorites! Love those shows!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Morever, cash buyer usually knows their own value and has better awareness of power of their money, whereas lease buyer, especially one who is interested in keeping it "under" some amount is in much weaker position, which in turn makes them much more "hungry" for the car they can later brag about, especially if they got a "great deal" of 499/month.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
As in here. To stay. With all my stuff. As in NOT a visit!
I have a long ways to go yet - probably a year or more - but now I can go into NYC every couple of weeks and be done. This I can live with.
First trip from here since I was admitted to the hospital back in early March is 7/23. Will deal with the doc and then go back to Hope Lodge and play for my now friends.
We decided to try to keep to a larger size vehicle for travel purposes. So after test driving the Veracruz, it seemed to fit all our needs. Ample room to seat 7, all the safty features, sunroof, power liftgate, sporty looking, price, nice interior, comfortable and powerful ride witht he 3.8 260hp engine, front seat bun warmers, bluetooth ,and a first aid kit (for whoever messes with a member from "Team Jipster'.) :mad:
The Veracruz GLS was a lot demo with 6,000 miles. MSRP was $32,000. Sale price was $27,000 (included mileage discount and dealership discount). I guess that's okay. The wife really liked it, so what are you gonna do?
As witht he MPV, the dealership was getting ready to close. We were gonna go home, the general manager says to me, "if we can get you a crazy price on that suv, you interested?". I say what my definition of a great price is and yours is probably different, but you are welcome to try against one of Edmunds finest!
(to be continued.. I'm tired from counting out all that money I handed over a few hours ago) :sick:
Great to hear, *fezo! At least you are free of that "ball and chain" tying you away from home. Just keep getting stronger and keep us up to date on your progress.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Prepare for the wrath of jmonroe for buying a Hyundai.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I only remember buying one car from the lot, and I ordered about maybe 15.
What percentage of people buy a car from stock? The chances of having a car with the right equipment and color seem pretty slim to me. Unless you are Isell and color, equipment or make don't matter.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Nice to have you home. Now, catch up with the 100 or so posts you have missed for the last 2 days. The good news is "You are really going to appreciate your own house".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I bought a "new" car once with a few hundred miles on it. They said the owner drove it for a couple of weeks. Then I found a french fry on the floor beside the seat. That pretty well took the "new" out of that purchase.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Amen, er, I mean, that's good brother, mmm, maybe that shouldn't be used either. Ah, well, OK then.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Congrats!!
The Veracruz was compared to the Lexus RX when it first came out. It is a nice SUV (I have sat in them at the dealer). Very roomy and Hyundai's 3.8 is a nice engine (decent MPG and low end torque).
Good luck with it!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited was the worst and
Lexus LS460L was one of the Best ever tested.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Ford Escape would be too small. My mother-in-law has a Mercury Mariner, sibling to the Escape or Explorer, can't recall. Would have been great for a 5 seater, but too small otherwise. And we did test drive the Hyundai Santa Fe, which was my first choice. But wife liked the 7 passenger seating and overall space of the Veracruz.
In looking at midsize suv's in general, most either didn't have 3rd row seating, or the seating was too small. i.e Toyota Highlander. The ones with larger 3rd row seating were generally priced much higher.
So the Veracruz was actually the first vehicle we looked at in person. It seemed to be the perfect fit. I have never been a great fan of buying "demos". But, it only had 6,000 miles ( I did check for french fries and found none)... looked just as "new" as the 2012's.The price seemed right, warranty expanded to 20 years/200000 miles by dealership.
Fezo...WOW....even more great news. That's wonderful that you're home. Must feel great.
Mike....love Chasing Classic Cars and Wheeler Dealer. Didn't get to see WD last night as the GF had some friends over for their "wine club" (go ahead and make the joke....I always do). Who can watch TV when there's a bunch of females drinking different wines and telling stories that get more and more....ummm...."blue", the more wine they drink. Actually, it's pretty funny!
I know the American version of Top Gear (is it still on?) is absolutely dreadful. But, if there was another program that would deserve an American version, it would be Wheeler Dealer. I know on a couple of the shows, they actually came to the states to fix up and sell a Chevy Pickup, a Dodge Charger, and a Chevy Belair. Thoroughly enjoyed those.
Thanks. I was a bit surprised at the power and acceleration during the test drive. Wish the mpg were a bit better. Seems to be right around what we got from the Mazda MPV we traded in.
Below is a photo link if anyone wants to take a look. It's at Oxmoor Hyundai, which has been booed here before, but they own both Hyundai dealerships in Louisville. It's in the new car section, the very first listing.
http://oxmoorhyundai.com/Louisville-KY/For-Sale/New/Hyundai/Veracruz/2011-GLS-Gr- ay-SUV/2574148/
The Belair episode was good, especially when they car caught on fire.
Fezo, must feel great to be home.
"wine club"
GG, funny you mention this. Two of my Fiance's bridesmaids showed up last night (after planning something for the wedding) and the conversations between them were quite interesting to say the least!
I just sat on the couch watching TV, sipping a beer.
We had our food tasting last night for the wedding. I'm still full. They brought out a full spread of appetizers, a salad, six entrees each (said they were half portions, still big), dessert and all the cocktails you wanted. It was a great experience and re-assured us this is the right venue. Not that it mattered because its only 3 months out and they have a sizeable amount of our money!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I have to imagine a '69 Charger storming the back country roads in Britain must scare a few people.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Congratulations and nice looking vehicle. There is no doubt, you get a lot of vehicle for the money with a Hyundai, unless you are JMonroe.
Now, did you use the Jipst Method, because it sounds like you thought the price was fair and you didn't have to wrestle the poor salesman down to the ground?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Is that the dealer who a couple years back was running sexually suggestive commercials that were cute but a little over-the-top for daytime radio?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can’t explain this work thing but it seems to be OK now although it is a little slower than usual.
It is quite possible that he made $50-$100 out of that maneuver, because there is always a little mark-up on the rate.
That is my take on it!
Mike Thanks for trying to answer this. I guess a dealership can do almost anything to make an extra buck or two. In the end I still saved a little over $600 so I guess I was just a little curious about this last minute thing about a “discount”.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've had exactly same problem for weeks now on one of my computers (small laptop), when using Explorer. The website works fine with two other computers (desktops) that I have access to, both also using IE and Windows 7. So go figure. I went as fas as downloading Firefox on the laptop and the website now works fine with it. Really weird stuff :confuse:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
this AM, I noticed it being particularly slow, but a little later on, it was flying (pages opening quick, etc.). So hopefully they were doing an upgrade that will actually work!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.