the contour ( a 2l 4, At) was just a nasty little thing to drive. uncomfortable, noisy, slow, just all around beastly.
Those cars were probably too big and heavy for a Ford 4 cyl engine. just a nasty little thing to drive. uncomfortable, noisy, slow, just all around beastly.
'65 MGB (tightest steering and shifter ever) bought in '69 to a '73 240Z bought new(224K miles at the end) to a '72 Datsun 510 (modified heavily and driven over 100K miles) to a '91 Miata to a '94 Type S Miata to a '94 Eagle Vision to a '00 Lincoln LS (large & heavy, but fun) to an '08 Acura TSX (excellent car, only problem is that the wrong pair of wheels is being driven).
These cars, plus my KW (driven only 210K miles) have taken me 1.3 million miles.
This is easy for me since I've only been driving since 1992:
1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (my first car) -> 1998 Ford Explorer Sport (leased for 2 years when I graduated college) -> 2000 Saab 9-3 (leased in 1999) -> 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH (bought new as a leftover in April 2002)
1990 BMW E30 BMW 325i (bought it for $950 as a project car) -> 2010 Acura TSX Tech (Cash 4 Clunked the BMW, inherited from my wife) -> 2011 BMW E90 328xi
My enchantingly beautiful wife:
2000 Mazda Protege ES -> 2007 BMW X3 3.0 si -> 2010 Acura TSX Tech -> 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I've always had a good car and a beater car. Also I had a friend that ran a car auction and let me buy with the dealers. They would run up with their paint thickness meters and yellow blue books while I just bid when I really liked one. The dealers set the price, I just edged them when I found something that I had to have and didn't want to pay retail for. Sometimes I sold to dealers and still made a profit when I got tired of them. There's money in cars if you're on the right side of the deal.
it wasn't, but I was working under the theory that a teenage boy should not have anything fast. For that purpose, it worked.
That was a really clever plan....I like it!
I don't know if Ford should advertise some of their cars that way, "Great car if you have a teen with raging hormones - this car will keep them under control".
Just out of curiosity how much difference did you pay...if you don't mind answering.
I paid $8000 + tax + tags/title + fees. I originally paid $57,000 for the 2013, so since the gave me $50,000, it cost me $7000 to drive the car 8 months. Also, remember, the new 2014 was $2000 more than the 2013 - but I got an additional $1000 off invoice because I had just qualified for the MBCA fleet coupon.
I also paid cash this time since MBFS has not offered incentives for over 2 years - so it did not pay to take out a small loan - besides it's nice to have the title to a car for a change.
stickguy...if those Contours had any parts from the Ford Tempo, I understand your pain.
I can't remember all of my cars, but in the early 90s I needed a commuter car as I was driving back and forth to Chicago every other week for work. The Tempo fit the bill (I thought), bought it new. It would barely go over 65. And, when it did, you couldn't even hear the radio. On top of all that, it would stall while I would be driving down the interstate, for no apparent reason. I should have had it lemoned. But, the dealership kept trying one thing after another. Even independent shops (which I had to pay vs dealership's warranty service) couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Paint was terrible. A/C barely worked. It was just a terrible car.
Some of the more memorable cars I've owned.....
-'69 MGB GT (used) -'82 TransAM (new...made more noise than power....305 with 150 HP) -Several Mustangs....mostly track cars...last one an '05 GT bought new -numerous BMWs....all 3 Series -Acura TL (miss that car) -and....the current Audi S4...you guys already know the story behind that one
That's about what I calculated using the handy Driver's Quick Calculation method.
Basically, you traded cars in less than a year and it didn't cost you too much more per year than if you had driven the 2013 for 3 or 4 years. Especially, when youtrade next time because the 14 is probably worth $4K more than the 13 would have been at that time.
The point being, sometimes it doesn't cost as much as people think it does to drive a new car. And, it is a type of forced savings, like those whole life insurance policies....10 years down the road you find your car is worth nothing, and you have to go in and pay for a new car without a trade-in.
My friends have a drinking game tied in to the cars I have owned. I'm 39.Got my license in 1991 at age 17.
here goes: 1973 Ford Gran Torino ( Mom's Car) 1986 Olds Cutlass Ciera (after I crashed the Gran Torino) 1985 Nissan 200SX 1986 Buick Skylark (Mom's car) 1987 Chevy Camaro (after I wrapped the Nissan around a tree and walked away without a scratch) 1993 Pontiac Grand AM (traded both the Camaro and the Skylark. Mom had stopped driving by that time and Dad didnt drive at all) 1995 Chevy Blazer (traded Grand Am) 1998 Honda Accord EX (my first brand new car) Leased 1998 Lincoln Continental (end of Accord lease) 1992 Honda prelude (toy car) ended up donating it because it had numerous problems 1999 Mazda 626 (traded Lincoln because I had taken a job with a 1 hour commute and gas was killing me. What a mistake) 1998 Infiniti I30 (traded Mazda 626 after my buddies mocked me for going from a Lincoln to a Mazda) Got married in 2002 and added a second car 1993 Honda Accord (bought for wife) 2000 VW Jetta (traded 1993 Accord) 2000 Volvo S80 (traded Infiniti I30) 2006 Honda Accord (traded Jetta. Leased new) 2006 Pontiac G6 (traded Volvo. Leased New) 1995 Cadillac STS (picked up at end of Accord lease) 2009 Pontiac Vibe (NEW when I turned in the G6) 2004 Toyota Sienna (traded the Cadillac when the kid was born) 2011 Cadillac CTS (trade the Vibe less than 2 years after I bought it. Leased the Caddy new) 2009 Ford Flex (traded the Sienna for a low mileage 2 year old Flex) 2001 Acura RL (picked it up after the CTS lease was up. Wanted to drive without a payment for a while) 2013 VW Passat SE (leased new when my Acura got rear ended and totalled)
1949 Chevrolet (my first car) 1989 Ford F150 (my first brand new vehicle) 1967 Plyouth Barracuda Formula "S" 1970 Dodge Challenger convertible 1976 Trans Am (Smokey and the Bandit, only mine was red) 1971 Peugeot 504 (bought "very used", but was my introduction to foreign cars, other than Volkswagen beetles)
And I want to chime in as agreeing with driver100, "sometimes it doesn't cost as much as people think it does to drive a new car".
1998 Honda Accord EX (my first brand new car) Leased 1998 Lincoln Continental (end of Accord lease) 1992 Honda prelude (toy car) ended up donating it because it had numerous problems 1999 Mazda 626 (traded Lincoln because I had taken a job with a 1 hour commute and gas was killing me. What a mistake)
OK, I have a few questions, but, for a start;
How come you leased a 98 Honda and then got a 98 Lincoln? Oh, it just came to me, the Lincoln was used. But, why did you go from a Honda to a LIncoln?
Why was trading the Lincoln for a Mazda a mistake? Obviously, gas mileage was better but what wasn't better?
Not too much brand loyalty....just wondering why you chose the cars you did.....sometimes you go to extremes, economy to luxury and visa versa?
The 98 Accord was a lease. Lease was ending. I had a contact at the Lincoln dealership and saw the Continental on the lot and loved it. Was a beautiful car.
I took a ton of abuse on the Mazda 626. At that point in my life, my friends and I all had nice cars. Acura, BMW, Infiniti etc. We were in our mid 20s. So here, I come pulling up with a Mazda and my friends were relentless. Plus, the Mazda was gold and just pretty cheap looking. Especially in comparison to my Lincoln. Shallow, I know.
Most of the New cars I bought were from the GM stable. We had/have the GM card and I would use the points to use as a down payment.
In other cases it was just something that caught my fancy. I had always wanted a Prelude, found one cheap, and bought it. The Volvo I stumbled upon at a dealership.
The Jetta was a spur of the moment purchase. The 93 Accord was a piece of junk and really borderline safe to drive. Saw a teaser ad in the Newspaper on a Memorial Day weekend. The car was ridiculously low priced. I drove to the dealer and low and behold they actually had the car. I remember debating whether or not to buy it and the Sales manager comes out and looks me in the eye and says, "Don't be stupid. Buy the car. 99% of the time we put these cars in the paper as a teaser and don't ever have the car." So, I bought it. Wife loved it and actually cried when we traded it in.
There are few things I enjoy better than the hunt for a car. Unfortunately, with the last purchase, 2013 Passat, I was really under the gun to get something and was having some serious family issues. Worked out though. Love the car.
Plus, the Mazda was gold and just pretty cheap looking. Especially in comparison to my Lincoln. Shallow, I know
Interesting story about how you got the cars you did. The comment about being shallow because of the Mazda reminds me of a good friend.....He bought his $130K Maserati, but then he bought a 2012 Fiat 500 to get around in the winter time. I think he drives the Fiat more than the Maserati. He said, he loves the way it handles and zips around, and he never has to worry about someone hitting it.
He said it doesn't mean anything to him having the Maserati...he has done it once and it is now out of his system, doesn't need to do it again. But, since it will have so few miles on it, he will probably keep it for a long time. I'm not so sure, I think he will get something between a Maserati and a Fiat so he can use it all year round.
Thought I would add a twist to the genealogy project and share how bad luck caused me to get rid of some of my cars before their time.
1973 Mercury Comet (stolen, but found by police burned--insurance paid full MRSP) 1966 used Chevy Coviar (temporary replacement--stolen never found) 1981 Dodge Mirada (stolen--never recovered) 1984 Olds Cutlass (*open end lease--at end of lease term residual price was so high that I bought the car. Will never lease again) 1987 Mazda 323 (Drunk driver totaled unoccupied parked car) 1988 Olds Cutlass (gave it away in 2004 in exchange for deck paint job) 1999 Volvo S70 (loaned to my son-in-law who was slammed from behind at a red light--totaled) 2000 Volvo V70 (totaled---electrical fire, out of warranty. Big fight between insurance Co. and Volvo on who should pay. Insurance paid low ball amount) 1998 Nissan Altima (purchased from my wife and sold it five days later for a $3,000 profit. Finally a good ending)
2000 Volvo V70 (totaled---electrical fire, out of warranty. Big fight between insurance Co. and Volvo on who should pay. Insurance paid low ball amount)
I am surprised you kept driving! That must have been some "hood" you lived in for those first 3 cars.
That must have been some "hood" you lived in for those first 3 cars.
That all happened in the great city of Boston where I worked. That was in the days before Lojack or sophisticated alarm systems. Oh, how I missed those simple times.
This guy has a new leased BMW that rolls away on it's own....BMW says there is nothing wrong with the car.
I had a 2008 BMW 535i that would discharge its battery whenever it rained during a thunderstorm. The dealer's service department could not identify the cause or fix the problem even though it showed up on the car's computer. So BMW had another identical car built for me and when I took delivery 2 months later, the same identical battery discharge occurred under the same conditions. BMW refused to acknowledge there was a defect in the 535i yet they offered to buy me out since I owned the car. I was so disgusted with BMW (after owning a 2005, 2006, 2007, and then 2-2008's) I ran, not walked to a Mercedes dealer to buy a new car.
I will never again own a BMW because of that. They don't admit to problems with their cars in the public's eye, just in private.
I will never again own a BMW because of that. They don't admit to problems with their cars in the public's eye, just in private
I think it can happen from time to time with any make. I have told the story about our 1995 Volvo...it was still under lease and the engine would just die at any time....no rhyme or reason when or where.
Took it to dealer one and they gave it back supposedly fixed, but wasn't. Same with dealer 2. Dealer 3 brought someone from head office in. Still never fixed. We turned it in almost a year early....dealer was good enough to let us out of the lease with a small penalty. Pretty well turned me off Volvos....I'd consider one but I would have to be very impressed.
My wifes 2003 Mercedes C Class wagon had a power window that failed just a month after the warranty was up. That was a $450 repair. I'd take a chance on an MB but I would have to be really impressed with that too.
I agree it is frustrating, and I know you enjoy and feel confident and good about Mercedes, so it is best not to rock the boat.
1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (Burg/Grey). 100K, traded in. First Car.
1993 Ford Taurus LX 3.8 (Silver/Grey). 97K, traded in. Car gave FORD the "Fix or Repair Daily" slogan.
1998 Oldsmobile 88 LS (Burg/Cream). 18K, leaked water inside from day one. Multiple dealers couldn't fix. Traded.
1979 Lincoln Continental Town Coupe. (baby blue/blue) 275K, total POS gas hog. Loved it! Kept it for two years while having the 88 and Solara, eventually junked.
2000 Solara SLE V6 (pearl white/beige) 27K, 36 month lease kept full term. Fantastic car in every respect.
1989 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. (white/blue). 72K My favorite car I've ever owned. Complete cream puff. Had from Nov 2001 to 05. Private sale for $1000 above book.
2003 Toyota Avalon XL (slate blue/beige). 33K, traded out of lease a little early. Good car, but will never be a huge favorite of mine.
2006 Toyota Avalon XLS (pearl white/dk grey). 33K kept full term 36 month lease. Loved this car, powerful, roomy, decent MPG and reliable.
2009 Hyundai Genesis sedan V6 (burg/beige). 22K Had it two years, got a great buyout from a dealer and pocketed $1500 bucks selling before lease was up. Car rode like a truck and stranded me three times.
2012 Buick LaCrosse PIII (black/grey). Still own w/ 17K. Wife is driving now. We both like it alot. Will probably get replaced with an Enclave.
2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate 80K (white/black). Inherited from my Grandfather. Will probably keep a very long time. Great car, like it alot.
1999 Chevy S10 Ext Cab V6. 114K (beige/black). I've had it about 7 years, but it almost never gets driven and needs work. Will be for sale soon, I think.
Oh, I am sure I could talk myself into it if cheap enough, thinking of all the practical uses that I would never do, and I would learn to hate it quick enough.
"The Tempo fit the bill (I thought), bought it new. It would barely go over 65."
GG--
I remember that I went with my studio and professorial colleague (20+ years my senior) when he bought a powder blue Tempo in about 1988. He only asked the salesman one question: "Does this car have a reverse gear that doesn't sound like a rubber band?" The salesman said, yeah. We took it for a test drive and he said he appreciated that the car had wheels larger than a riding mower. Back at the lot he paid full boat for it and didn't even dream of dickering, which I believe he felt was unseemly and declasse. I wish I could remember what the Tempo replaced--some nondescript American sedan from the 70s.
Later the Tempo spent a fair amount of time in the shop with more than a few mechanical problems. It was hard taking even short trips with him as he smoked Camel no filters nearly constantly while driving. He wasn't disappointed when at some point in the early 90s some "blue hairs" (his description of the women in the other car) t-boned him at an intersection. I believe he replaced it with a Nissan Sentra, which was his first foreign nameplate and last car before he died.
Gogiboy
ps. I know what he meant by rubber band reverse gear as my 88 VW Golf had it (although it wasn't listed as a feature on the Monroney Sticker).
1. 1973 Dart Sport from mom - ugly yellow, but any replacement part was $20 at the junk yard
2. Used 1984 EXP Turbo only 20,000 miles - MONEY PIT - many things broke or simply fell off, but when the turbo went at 75,000 miles it time to move on
3. New 1991 VW GTI - loved that car and drove the heck out of it. Road trip from Seattle to the Bay area and back in 1991 to see the Huskies play Cal. Being a Washington car it had no AC...and yes we nearly died of head stroke between the bay and southern Oregon...
4. Very used Mazda B2200 (can't recall the exact year) - Sold the GTI to get some $$ issues resolved and my grandfather sold (gave) me his old truck...however could not pass emissions the following year so traded it in
5. Used 1995 Toyota Tacoma SX - loved this truck, 4WD standard cab with buckets and a canopy to cover the dog in the back - we had all kinds of fun, and wish I would have kept it to this day
6. New 2001 Mitsu Montero Sport - no payments for 12 months(...oops) financially it was a bad move but he car was solid - 10 years and nearly 100k with no issues - became my wife's car - and now is a CPO 2008 Lexus RX 350 - bullet proof, but a little dull to drive.
7. New 2004 Mazda 3 "S" model. 5 Speed, Leather, only thing missing was navigation - also loved it, but it had a light floaty feeling in the corners - likely the tires...but after 4 years...
8. New 2008 Mercedes Benz C350 - absolutely love this car - fun to drive, plenty of pep and solid as a bank vault, just hit 33,000 miles. Will be curious to see the updated C class next year
For those of you who are also part of CCBA, this is a re-post and I apologize:
As you all know, my current DD is a 2011 BMW 328xiA which I am madly in love with. Today I had to bring my car in for service (trunk latch, adaptive headlight, & battery cable recall) and was provided a loaner car to drive. I've had a fantastic experience with 2 previous loaner cars, a 2011 335d & a 2013 X1 28i. Today's loaner car write up is on the 2013 BMW F30 328xiA sedan.
I sit down in the car, adjust the seat & the mirrors, look for a place to stick the key (it's keyless go dummy!), put my foot on the brake, push the start button, tap the car into Drive and I'm ready to roll. The 4cyl N20 Turbocharged engine is most definitely nowhere nearly as smooth as my car's Inline 6 and kind of clatters like a diesel at idle.
The 1st thing I notice is the the new F30 is bigger than my E90. Bigger trunk, bigger back seat, more headroom, wider center console. Bigger, but not as comfortable. The new center console is wider and my right leg is not comfortable resting up against it.
The seats are nice and firm. Even though they are no Sport Seats, they have thicker bolsters than my car. I notice the buttons on the dash board are located much higher than they are in my car. The screen is smaller and I look down at the i-Drive controller and realize that this car doesn't have Navigation. No big deal, but the smaller screen looks like an afterthought. The steering wheel is bigger and is not as thick as the steering wheel in my car. Dash & interior materials are high quality.
Navigating my way out of the dealership's back lot, I notice the featherlight steering. I stop a minute after starting the car to adjust my seat some more and the car shuts off. What? Oh, auto stop/start. Take your foot off of the brake or tug the steering wheel and the car fires right back up instantaneously.
Right out of the dealership I notice how vague the steering response is and how soft the suspension is tuned. A few traffic lights later and I notice the "drive mode" button. I figure out the car is in "eco-pro" mode and toggle is forward 2 notches until it says "you are now in sport mode." Now we are getting somewhere. I notice the steering tightens up to an acceptable level and throttle response is instantaneous. I can't give it a full nail the gas and merge test because there is just too much traffic.
Once I'm on the highway, I figure I'll just toggle back down to "eco-pro" mode to see what kind of MPGs this baby can return. The car wallows, is unresponsive, and provides the same steering "feel" as a 1991 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Station Wagon. This lasts for approximately 25 seconds. I think to myself: "what are they kidding me?"
I toggle back into "sport" mode and notice the same thing that happened before, except now the 8 speed automatic shifts into 6th and won't go any higher, even though I'm cruising. Toggling the car into "comfort" mode dials back on the throttle response and steering weight. Plus the car will shift into 8th gear. But now the car is not as tight.
Pay the toll, dial up "sport" mode and mash the gas on the way out. The 8 speed autobox shifts crisply and the motor rockets the car forward. The engine and transmission are paired perfectly. You can tell they were designed together.
So now "sport" is the way to make the car drive decent. So in order to keep the revs down, select "sport," slide the beer tap shifter to the left, and "manually" shift into 8th gear.
Hit a decent amount of "bad weather" traffic once I hit the CT border. The brakes don't seem as strong as my E90, there seems to be a bit of pedal float until the brakes bite, and I can actually feel the car dive under semi hard braking.
While I was cruising, the trip computer said I was consuming fuel at a rate of 32 mpg. Even with the traffic, the car still returned 30.5 mpg. Good fuel economy numbers are nice, but that's not the main reason you buy "the ultimate driving machine."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I could write this piece myself. I simply HATE the new steering. It's an utter disaster, failure wrapped in misery. The engine/tranny combo is not as smooth, but it is fast, notably faster than my E91. The mileage is definitely much better, but I'm still unconvinced I'd trade new for old, even if the steering was better. However, I understand why they did that - people care about the speed and mileage, not as much about audio from the engine.
BTW, if you get Nav with F30, the screen would be larger - in the same place, but much wider. More less same size as on E9x. Also, I did not care for the standard seats too much, they actually made my thighs hurt. They may be better than previous standard seats, but still nowhere they should be. Sports seats are still way to go, if you want it.
Finally, IMHO Ultimate Driving Machine it is NOT. Not anymore.
I have seen an F30 w/ NAV & noticed the larger screen. To me it looks like the "POP-up" type from the 1st generation X3, but it is fixed.
I got to drive the car this morning. There's a lot less traffic when I leave @ 6:30 AM. The F30 seems to take twisty roads at a higher rate of speed than my E90, but it is not happy about it. The body pitches and rolls. The ride on the highway is comfortable, but not solid & hunkered down like my E90. My wife's Pilot gives better steering feedback.
I know Dino that you think I'm foolish for leasing & for many reasons you've stated, you are right. Even with the cash incentives & pumped up residual, my current E90 is going to be worth A LOT less than its stated lease end buyout when the lease is up. As it is now, my car with 23K miles is crossing the block at $26K. It's going to be worth much less in 17 months with 50K on the clock. As much as I love the car, I'm not willing to overpay for it at the end of the lease.
The F30 at any cost is not worth it to me. I'm definitely going to buy my next car & stick to a $25k - $30K budget.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Today's loaner car write up is on the 2013 BMW F30 328xiA sedan
I could have written that same post....I have to agree with your findings completely. The soft steering is to try to capture more of the North American market of course. If you want to drive the ultimate driving machine you have to keep the car in sport mode.
We were underwhelmed. That is why we liked the A4, it isn't as refined as the 328. Still has that old European charm. Audi needs an A4 with a manual transmission though.....not offered in Canada at least unless you go with an S model, but then you have to change to winter tires.
Good review, well done. btw...you can bypass the off/on feature, I only put it on if I am coming up to a long light or a train.
I know Dino that you think I'm foolish for leasing & for many reasons you've stated, you are right
I never said that and I do not think that. Lease can be a good option, especially those subsidized ones, like you got. I think I can take such lease myself. However, the cars that I have liked and bought do not have offers even near that nice. BMW targets their lease subsidies toward high-volume or just-to-be-discontinued models. My wagon was neither at the time I bought it, so lease wasn't even close.
I understand your sentiment about the E90 lease return. When they pump up residual so much (to make payment term more pallatable), it is almost impossible to accept buying such overpriced car at the time of return. The only thing I'd do is keep my eyes open and be ready to deal, if they come up with an offer. They likely will not, but if they do (say offer to sell it to you at more realistic value), you could jump on it. It is an unlikely scenario, but possible. You just make sure there is nothing for them to charge you on wear and tear. You won't be able to do anything to miles, if you exceed the allowance, but scratches, dings, tires, and those things you just fix.
BTW, how are your tires at the moment? I have same mileage, almost to the dot and my Contis (Extremes, not Pros) are getting ripe for replacement in couple of thousand miles. Just about what I expected - not great, but I knew about it. Your Pros will last longer, however I wonder if you'l be able to stretch them to the end of the term and be able to return the car without new tires. It may be worth doing some anticipation calc. If you see they're wearing faster, then I'd change them sooner rather than later, as then you'd be one to enjoy the new tire, not the next guy. However, if you really think you can pull off keeping them till the end and not pay, then by all means...
The LED's are superior to the previous year's HID's.
I agree with Mike. I had HID's in a VW Passat (the real one, not the water down version) and in a Grand Cherokee. I thought there were great. The Passat had the adaptive lights (they turn with the car.) I missed that feature with the Jeep.
However, I do not miss that feature or HID's with my LED lights in my Wrangler. They are brighter, have better spread, and will last a long time (I had to replace one HID light in the Passat.)
gogiboy...even during the American manufacturer's "malaise" years (mid '70s to mid '90s), I thought the Tempo was a very poor attempt by Ford.
I spent so much time in the service dept with that Tempo, that I felt like I was a dealership employee. Finally, they said it was out of warranty so they wanted to charge me for stalling issue, that they never fixed in the first place. It also knocked like a persistent Jehovah's Witness.
I found a solution, finally. Back then I was going to the track with our junk Mustang (which ran solid 12s). We used the highest octane fuel we could find, which only one gas station carried. It contained lead, too (for a car designed for unleaded fuel). That took care of the knocks and the stalling, but at $4/gal (which was a lot at the time).
I was young(er) then and naive. I should have fought with Ford to lemon it, but didn't.
NYC...you're experiences with the new F30 BMWs are the same as mine when they let me test drive a couple. They're making them soft. I'm sure they'll sell more as a result. But, they're no longer "special" cars...expecially knocking on the $50K door. There are a whole lot better alternatives....most of them less expensive that offer a lot more.
I think the answer will depend on sports package (summer) vs. non-SP. I doubt any SP owner is getting more than 30K - guys here can confirm/deny that notion. Non-SP should be a bit longer, I wonder myself how much longer. As I heard, the RFTs tend to wear faster than their regular counterparts, even with same tread patterns and rubber compounds.
I think it is safe to say (based on reports here and other places) that BMW has "sold out".
It's all about sales and market share. I wonder if it will be a success or if it will cancel out, meaning that they will pick up a bunch of sales to those who like "soft" but will also lose a bunch from the purists.
I've always said you can't be everything to everyone and it appears BMW is looking to do that. Lexus, can't do BMW and maybe BMW shouldn't be trying to do Lexus.
So far they seem successful, sales are still rising at good pace. I only wonder if the trend will sustain. There were several other manufacturers trying to change their approach in search of marketshare, it was never really successful. The only success so far is Volkswagen - they gutted out their entry level trim models, made Corolla out of Jetta (even in styling), stretched and cheapened entry Passat and it seems to be working.
I'll post my automotive geneology. Please note, I am old:
1978 VW Scirocco: White, black interior. Recaro seats, lovely wood gearshift knob and no A/C. Light, tight and tossable. IIRC, 77 horsepower. And, rust never sleeps. Sold it to a HS kid, 6 months later I drove by a body shop and there it was out front, side smashed in. I hope no one was hurt. This begat:
1984 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo: Arrest me red. Test drove with my Dad, first time the turbo kicked in: SOLD! Dad said he could see the money leaving my wallet, into the salesman's hand as the RPMs climbed. Fun, practical and reliable. My family had good luck with Mitsu's, a shame what has become of Mitsu in the US. Sold to a Dr. who was buying it for his daughter. He couldn't figure out reverse, kept grinding it, noting something was wrong with the tranny. His daughter had no such issue. He tried it again, I said the next time you grind reverse, you have bought the car! His daughter convinced him, he bought it, lucky girl. This begat:
1988 Acura Integra: Bright white exterior, black interior. A la Scirocco, light, tight and fun! May be the best screwed-together car I've owned, when you closed the door you were hermetically sealed in! Dug the pop-up headlights, hatchbacks ruled the day! Stereotypically reliable, both the Mitsu and Acura needed nothing beyond routine maintenance. This begat:
1990-1996: Personally, a dark period. I went into sales, had a series of forgettable, but serviceable four door domestic sedans (Olds 88, Mercury Sable, Dodge Intrepid). However, I lived vicariously through my wife:
1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R. See Scirocco, Mirage Turbo and Integra. 1995 Saab 900se. Expeciting first child, was deathly afraid wife would want a minivan or SUV. Saab hatch was wonderful. 2002 Lexus RX300. Second child on the way, wife done with manual trannys and every woman on earth seemed to want the RX. Still have it, but now it is the first born's driver. And mine, come this winter.
Now, back to me:
1999 Chrysler 300M. Silver, black interior. After leaving sales, I bought my co. Intrepid. Which I liked well enough (far from the Japanese build quality I had come to know, but reliable, good looking, practical and relatively fun) to take a chance and break all my rules: Never buy a first model year, domestic, Chrysler! I just fell for the 300M, and had 5.5 years of relatively trouble free driving enjoyment. But, it was a BIG car, and I grow bored easily. So, this begat:
2005 Acura TL. Abyss Blue, gray interior. Back to the future! Like my Integra, a well built, reliable, fun, practical piece of machinery. And, IMHO, unlike the current TL, a timeless, handsome design. I Zaino'd the heck out of it! Biggest (surprising) downside: lousy in the snow. Tires, most likely, but I bought dedicated snows/rims, problem solved. But, first time I've felt the need for snow shoes, and I'm a life-long New Englander/skier. Of course, eventually mid-life crisis has smacked me upside the head, and I had a bit of a windfall. So, this begat:
2009 Jaguar XK Coupe. Silver, charcoal interior. Grace with pace. V8, leather, wood, head-turning style. Fast, quiet, lovely ride, handles well, decent mpg. What is not to love? Oh, yeah. It don't go in snow. Duh, summer rubber, 275/35 in back. And, this will begat:
? Where do I go from here? My son said I must go Aston Martin. He is so fond of quoting Jeremy Clarkson, who while loving the XK himself, noted it just screams, "I bought a Jag because I can't afford an Aston Martin!" Truth be told, I'm not sure I can afford the Jag, but in 100 years it is very likely I will no longer be alive. So, there.
And, the wife? After 10 years with the Lexus, she bought an '11 BMW 535xi. She said it was more fun than the MB E Class and wanted to seat 5 over the Audi A7. Of course, after a Lexus RX300, I think a Smart car might be considered fun! Ok, not a Smart...
To be continued, hopefully!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
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Of course, eventually mid-life crisis has smacked me upside the head, and I had a bit of a windfall. So, this begat: 2009 Jaguar XK Coupe.
Interesting and expensive choices. None of my business, of course, but hope that does not begat your children's college education or trust funds. But then again, you said it was a windfall, so a Jaguar or a DB 9 won't put much of a dent in your budget anyway.
oh, my bad. no harm, no foul. I misunderstood what your thoughts about my leasing my BMW were. I do agree with you that it is more expensive to lease. I know people that have much greater financial means than I do and they only buy, not lease.
My only thing with the miles is that I want to be careful NOT to go over. My lease allows me 50,000 miles. From past experiences (my parents), I know that at 50,100 miles the BMWs call for brakes. I don't want to spend money on new brakes just to turn the car in. But at that point, the car will be out of warranty, so I can just have an indie shop do the work.
My tires are wearing nicely. I highly doubt they'll last the entire 50,000 mile life of the lease. I think I should be able to get another 12K out of them. As long as I can make it through next winter. I will definitely switch out the all seasons for a set of summer only high performance tires. I'll stick with run flats of course.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
No, XK was the budget/windfall. I've named it, "The X-401(k)!" :surprise:
As long as I have blood and vital organs to sell, kids are good for college. Trust funds? I trust that they will fund my old age... Besides, isn't Obama or Deval sending all our kids to college, while paying off our mortgages?
What do my cars and my investments have in common? They're both depreciating assets... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
No problem. I might have come across as a "lease hawk", but that's just because I see a lot of people not understanding the lease, putting huge downpayments and doing other things that essentially wipe out all the lease advantages for sake of low payment. I believe it is generally true that if you can't afford to buy, you can't afford to lease - with exception of those subsidized leases, which are equivalent of large sticker discounts. Inflated residual can be worth thousands of dollars vs. purchasing price. Say if "real" 36 month residual on $45K car is 50% and the lease uses 55%, it's worth over two thousand dollars before even money factor is applied. Inflate it to 60% and you get over five grand total subsidy vs. purchase - and that is before even price negotiations . Drop the purchase price by couple of thousand and suddenly it's a no brainer even for somebody who could buy it outright, especially if money factor is also low. There were no such subsidies on wagon. Money factor was an equivalent of 4-5% (my loan was 2.6%) and redisual was not so hot, either. Add fees (both acquisition and disposal) and the thing was just terrible. But those outgoing xi sedans in 2012 were surely great to lease at the time.
The original equipment tires are Good Year Eagles 245/R45/19.
btw....I think you are fine leasing in your situation. Car is used for business any way so won't cost much more to lease than own, and may give you more flexibility at trade in time. You may even find someone who wants to buy it from you. Not a big deal either way IMHO.
other things that essentially wipe out all the lease advantages
Leases can be a good thing in certain situations. Like i said, I needed a new Jeep to start my business. I couldn't afford to buy, but I could lease. A good reliable vehicle really helped to get me started....don't know if I could have done it with an older vehicle.
Besides, I leased for 30 months then leased again for 24 months. Couldn't have found a way to get a new car for that price if I bought.
Sometimes, it is better to spend the money, get what you need and want, and not always try to find the most economical way to do things.
btw....I think having a nice new vehicle made me feel better too, and that can mean the difference between success and failure.
Comments
Those cars were probably too big and heavy for a Ford 4 cyl engine.
just a nasty little thing to drive. uncomfortable, noisy, slow, just all around beastly.
Doesn't sound like much fun to drive, at all.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
he was not at all sad a year later when I upgraded him to an Acura TL.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
These cars, plus my KW (driven only 210K miles) have taken me 1.3 million miles.
1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT (my first car) -> 1998 Ford Explorer Sport (leased for 2 years when I graduated college) -> 2000 Saab 9-3 (leased in 1999) -> 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH (bought new as a leftover in April 2002)
1990 BMW E30 BMW 325i (bought it for $950 as a project car) -> 2010 Acura TSX Tech (Cash 4 Clunked the BMW, inherited from my wife) -> 2011 BMW E90 328xi
My enchantingly beautiful wife:
2000 Mazda Protege ES -> 2007 BMW X3 3.0 si -> 2010 Acura TSX Tech -> 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
They would run up with their paint thickness meters and yellow blue books while I just bid when I really liked one.
The dealers set the price, I just edged them when I found something that I had to have and didn't want to pay retail for.
Sometimes I sold to dealers and still made a profit when I got tired of them.
There's money in cars if you're on the right side of the deal.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
That was a really clever plan....I like it!
I don't know if Ford should advertise some of their cars that way, "Great car if you have a teen with raging hormones - this car will keep them under control".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I paid $8000 + tax + tags/title + fees. I originally paid $57,000 for the 2013, so since the gave me $50,000, it cost me $7000 to drive the car 8 months. Also, remember, the new 2014 was $2000 more than the 2013 - but I got an additional $1000 off invoice because I had just qualified for the MBCA fleet coupon.
I also paid cash this time since MBFS has not offered incentives for over 2 years - so it did not pay to take out a small loan - besides it's nice to have the title to a car for a change.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I can't remember all of my cars, but in the early 90s I needed a commuter car as I was driving back and forth to Chicago every other week for work. The Tempo fit the bill (I thought), bought it new. It would barely go over 65. And, when it did, you couldn't even hear the radio. On top of all that, it would stall while I would be driving down the interstate, for no apparent reason. I should have had it lemoned. But, the dealership kept trying one thing after another. Even independent shops (which I had to pay vs dealership's warranty service) couldn't figure out what was wrong.
Paint was terrible. A/C barely worked. It was just a terrible car.
Some of the more memorable cars I've owned.....
-'69 MGB GT (used)
-'82 TransAM (new...made more noise than power....305 with 150 HP)
-Several Mustangs....mostly track cars...last one an '05 GT bought new
-numerous BMWs....all 3 Series
-Acura TL (miss that car)
-and....the current Audi S4...you guys already know the story behind that one
That's about what I calculated using the handy Driver's Quick Calculation method.
Basically, you traded cars in less than a year and it didn't cost you too much more per year than if you had driven the 2013 for 3 or 4 years. Especially, when youtrade next time because the 14 is probably worth $4K more than the 13 would have been at that time.
The point being, sometimes it doesn't cost as much as people think it does to drive a new car. And, it is a type of forced savings, like those whole life insurance policies....10 years down the road you find your car is worth nothing, and you have to go in and pay for a new car without a trade-in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
'70 Ford Galaxie coupe > '77 Ford Cobra II > '76 Jeep CJ-5 > '82 Honda Accord hatchback > '88 Mazda 323GTX > '95 Nissan Pathfinder SE > '98 Honda CR-V > '02 Honda CR-V > '08 Subaru Impreza > '06 BMW 330Ci
2nd car:
'67 BMW 2000CS > '84 Porsche 911 Targa > baby boy
Wife's car:
'90 Nissan 240SX > '94 Acura Vigor > '97 Honda Accord > '99 Honda Accord > '01 Honda Accord > '03 BMW 325i > '05 BMW 330Ci convertible > '08 BMW X3 > '11 Infiniti G37XS sedan > '11 BMW X3
Baby boy's car:
'92 Acura Legend > '87 BMW 325iS > Infiniti/BMW or whatever is available..
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here goes:
1973 Ford Gran Torino ( Mom's Car)
1986 Olds Cutlass Ciera (after I crashed the Gran Torino)
1985 Nissan 200SX
1986 Buick Skylark (Mom's car)
1987 Chevy Camaro (after I wrapped the Nissan around a tree and walked away without a scratch)
1993 Pontiac Grand AM (traded both the Camaro and the Skylark. Mom had stopped driving by that time and Dad didnt drive at all)
1995 Chevy Blazer (traded Grand Am)
1998 Honda Accord EX (my first brand new car) Leased
1998 Lincoln Continental (end of Accord lease)
1992 Honda prelude (toy car) ended up donating it because it had numerous problems
1999 Mazda 626 (traded Lincoln because I had taken a job with a 1 hour commute and gas was killing me. What a mistake)
1998 Infiniti I30 (traded Mazda 626 after my buddies mocked me for going from a Lincoln to a Mazda)
Got married in 2002 and added a second car
1993 Honda Accord (bought for wife)
2000 VW Jetta (traded 1993 Accord)
2000 Volvo S80 (traded Infiniti I30)
2006 Honda Accord (traded Jetta. Leased new)
2006 Pontiac G6 (traded Volvo. Leased New)
1995 Cadillac STS (picked up at end of Accord lease)
2009 Pontiac Vibe (NEW when I turned in the G6)
2004 Toyota Sienna (traded the Cadillac when the kid was born)
2011 Cadillac CTS (trade the Vibe less than 2 years after I bought it. Leased the Caddy new)
2009 Ford Flex (traded the Sienna for a low mileage 2 year old Flex)
2001 Acura RL (picked it up after the CTS lease was up. Wanted to drive without a payment for a while)
2013 VW Passat SE (leased new when my Acura got rear ended and totalled)
1949 Chevrolet (my first car)
1989 Ford F150 (my first brand new vehicle)
1967 Plyouth Barracuda Formula "S"
1970 Dodge Challenger convertible
1976 Trans Am (Smokey and the Bandit, only mine was red)
1971 Peugeot 504 (bought "very used", but was my introduction to foreign cars,
other than Volkswagen beetles)
And I want to chime in as agreeing with driver100, "sometimes it doesn't cost as much as people think it does to drive a new car".
1949 Chevrolet (my first car)
1989 Ford F150 (my first brand new vehicle)
But, you probably came out ahead if you kept your 49 Chevy for 40 years!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
1998 Lincoln Continental (end of Accord lease)
1992 Honda prelude (toy car) ended up donating it because it had numerous problems
1999 Mazda 626 (traded Lincoln because I had taken a job with a 1 hour commute and gas was killing me. What a mistake)
OK, I have a few questions, but, for a start;
How come you leased a 98 Honda and then got a 98 Lincoln? Oh, it just came to me, the Lincoln was used. But, why did you go from a Honda to a LIncoln?
Why was trading the Lincoln for a Mazda a mistake? Obviously, gas mileage was better but what wasn't better?
Not too much brand loyalty....just wondering why you chose the cars you did.....sometimes you go to extremes, economy to luxury and visa versa?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I took a ton of abuse on the Mazda 626. At that point in my life, my friends and I all had nice cars. Acura, BMW, Infiniti etc. We were in our mid 20s. So here, I come pulling up with a Mazda and my friends were relentless. Plus, the Mazda was gold and just pretty cheap looking. Especially in comparison to my Lincoln. Shallow, I know.
Most of the New cars I bought were from the GM stable. We had/have the GM card and I would use the points to use as a down payment.
In other cases it was just something that caught my fancy. I had always wanted a Prelude, found one cheap, and bought it. The Volvo I stumbled upon at a dealership.
The Jetta was a spur of the moment purchase. The 93 Accord was a piece of junk and really borderline safe to drive. Saw a teaser ad in the Newspaper on a Memorial Day weekend. The car was ridiculously low priced. I drove to the dealer and low and behold they actually had the car. I remember debating whether or not to buy it and the Sales manager comes out and looks me in the eye and says, "Don't be stupid. Buy the car. 99% of the time we put these cars in the paper as a teaser and don't ever have the car." So, I bought it. Wife loved it and actually cried when we traded it in.
There are few things I enjoy better than the hunt for a car. Unfortunately, with the last purchase, 2013 Passat, I was really under the gun to get something and was having some serious family issues. Worked out though. Love the car.
Interesting story about how you got the cars you did. The comment about being shallow because of the Mazda reminds me of a good friend.....He bought his $130K Maserati, but then he bought a 2012 Fiat 500 to get around in the winter time. I think he drives the Fiat more than the Maserati. He said, he loves the way it handles and zips around, and he never has to worry about someone hitting it.
He said it doesn't mean anything to him having the Maserati...he has done it once and it is now out of his system, doesn't need to do it again. But, since it will have so few miles on it, he will probably keep it for a long time.
I'm not so sure, I think he will get something between a Maserati and a Fiat so he can use it all year round.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
1973 Mercury Comet (stolen, but found by police burned--insurance paid full MRSP)
1966 used Chevy Coviar (temporary replacement--stolen never found)
1981 Dodge Mirada (stolen--never recovered)
1984 Olds Cutlass (*open end lease--at end of lease term residual price was so high that I bought the car. Will never lease again)
1987 Mazda 323 (Drunk driver totaled unoccupied parked car)
1988 Olds Cutlass (gave it away in 2004 in exchange for deck paint job)
1999 Volvo S70 (loaned to my son-in-law who was slammed from behind at a red light--totaled)
2000 Volvo V70 (totaled---electrical fire, out of warranty. Big fight between insurance Co. and Volvo on who should pay. Insurance paid low ball amount)
1998 Nissan Altima (purchased from my wife and sold it five days later for a $3,000 profit. Finally a good ending)
I am surprised you kept driving! That must have been some "hood" you lived in for those first 3 cars.
This guy has a new leased BMW that rolls away on it's own....BMW says there is nothing wrong with the car.
BMW caught on surveilance tape, rolling away on it's own
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That all happened in the great city of Boston where I worked. That was in the days before Lojack or sophisticated alarm systems. Oh, how I missed those simple times.
I had a 2008 BMW 535i that would discharge its battery whenever it rained during a thunderstorm. The dealer's service department could not identify the cause or fix the problem even though it showed up on the car's computer. So BMW had another identical car built for me and when I took delivery 2 months later, the same identical battery discharge occurred under the same conditions. BMW refused to acknowledge there was a defect in the 535i yet they offered to buy me out since I owned the car. I was so disgusted with BMW (after owning a 2005, 2006, 2007, and then 2-2008's) I ran, not walked to a Mercedes dealer to buy a new car.
I will never again own a BMW because of that. They don't admit to problems with their cars in the public's eye, just in private.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I think it can happen from time to time with any make. I have told the story about our 1995 Volvo...it was still under lease and the engine would just die at any time....no rhyme or reason when or where.
Took it to dealer one and they gave it back supposedly fixed, but wasn't. Same with dealer 2. Dealer 3 brought someone from head office in. Still never fixed. We turned it in almost a year early....dealer was good enough to let us out of the lease with a small penalty. Pretty well turned me off Volvos....I'd consider one but I would have to be very impressed.
My wifes 2003 Mercedes C Class wagon had a power window that failed just a month after the warranty was up. That was a $450 repair. I'd take a chance on an MB but I would have to be really impressed with that too.
I agree it is frustrating, and I know you enjoy and feel confident and good about Mercedes, so it is best not to rock the boat.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (Burg/Grey). 100K, traded in. First Car.
1993 Ford Taurus LX 3.8 (Silver/Grey). 97K, traded in. Car gave FORD the "Fix or Repair Daily" slogan.
1998 Oldsmobile 88 LS (Burg/Cream). 18K, leaked water inside from day one. Multiple dealers couldn't fix. Traded.
1979 Lincoln Continental Town Coupe. (baby blue/blue) 275K, total POS gas hog. Loved it! Kept it for two years while having the 88 and Solara, eventually junked.
2000 Solara SLE V6 (pearl white/beige) 27K, 36 month lease kept full term. Fantastic car in every respect.
1989 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. (white/blue). 72K My favorite car I've ever owned. Complete cream puff. Had from Nov 2001 to 05. Private sale for $1000 above book.
2003 Toyota Avalon XL (slate blue/beige). 33K, traded out of lease a little early. Good car, but will never be a huge favorite of mine.
2006 Toyota Avalon XLS (pearl white/dk grey). 33K kept full term 36 month lease. Loved this car, powerful, roomy, decent MPG and reliable.
2009 Hyundai Genesis sedan V6 (burg/beige). 22K Had it two years, got a great buyout from a dealer and pocketed $1500 bucks selling before lease was up. Car rode like a truck and stranded me three times.
2012 Buick LaCrosse PIII (black/grey). Still own w/ 17K. Wife is driving now. We both like it alot. Will probably get replaced with an Enclave.
2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate 80K (white/black). Inherited from my Grandfather. Will probably keep a very long time. Great car, like it alot.
1999 Chevy S10 Ext Cab V6. 114K (beige/black). I've had it about 7 years, but it almost never gets driven and needs work. Will be for sale soon, I think.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
I really do have focusing issues.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It needs ball joints, bad. If I ever get the time, I'd could do it myself (with a friend's help) but I'll probably have it done and then sell it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
but first and foremost, I am cheap.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
GG--
I remember that I went with my studio and professorial colleague (20+ years my senior) when he bought a powder blue Tempo in about 1988. He only asked the salesman one question: "Does this car have a reverse gear that doesn't sound like a rubber band?" The salesman said, yeah. We took it for a test drive and he said he appreciated that the car had wheels larger than a riding mower. Back at the lot he paid full boat for it and didn't even dream of dickering, which I believe he felt was unseemly and declasse. I wish I could remember what the Tempo replaced--some nondescript American sedan from the 70s.
Later the Tempo spent a fair amount of time in the shop with more than a few mechanical problems. It was hard taking even short trips with him as he smoked Camel no filters nearly constantly while driving. He wasn't disappointed when at some point in the early 90s some "blue hairs" (his description of the women in the other car) t-boned him at an intersection. I believe he replaced it with a Nissan Sentra, which was his first foreign nameplate and last car before he died.
Gogiboy
ps. I know what he meant by rubber band reverse gear as my 88 VW Golf had it (although it wasn't listed as a feature on the Monroney Sticker).
1. 1973 Dart Sport from mom - ugly yellow, but any replacement part was $20 at the junk yard
2. Used 1984 EXP Turbo only 20,000 miles - MONEY PIT - many things broke or simply fell off, but when the turbo went at 75,000 miles it time to move on
3. New 1991 VW GTI - loved that car and drove the heck out of it. Road trip from Seattle to the Bay area and back in 1991 to see the Huskies play Cal. Being a Washington car it had no AC...and yes we nearly died of head stroke between the bay and southern Oregon...
4. Very used Mazda B2200 (can't recall the exact year) - Sold the GTI to get some $$ issues resolved and my grandfather sold (gave) me his old truck...however could not pass emissions the following year so traded it in
5. Used 1995 Toyota Tacoma SX - loved this truck, 4WD standard cab with buckets and a canopy to cover the dog in the back - we had all kinds of fun, and wish I would have kept it to this day
6. New 2001 Mitsu Montero Sport - no payments for 12 months(...oops) financially it was a bad move but he car was solid - 10 years and nearly 100k with no issues - became my wife's car - and now is a CPO 2008 Lexus RX 350 - bullet proof, but a little dull to drive.
7. New 2004 Mazda 3 "S" model. 5 Speed, Leather, only thing missing was navigation - also loved it, but it had a light floaty feeling in the corners - likely the tires...but after 4 years...
8. New 2008 Mercedes Benz C350 - absolutely love this car - fun to drive, plenty of pep and solid as a bank vault, just hit 33,000 miles. Will be curious to see the updated C class next year
:shades:
As you all know, my current DD is a 2011 BMW 328xiA which I am madly in love with. Today I had to bring my car in for service (trunk latch, adaptive headlight, & battery cable recall) and was provided a loaner car to drive. I've had a fantastic experience with 2 previous loaner cars, a 2011 335d & a 2013 X1 28i. Today's loaner car write up is on the 2013 BMW F30 328xiA sedan.
I sit down in the car, adjust the seat & the mirrors, look for a place to stick the key (it's keyless go dummy!), put my foot on the brake, push the start button, tap the car into Drive and I'm ready to roll. The 4cyl N20 Turbocharged engine is most definitely nowhere nearly as smooth as my car's Inline 6 and kind of clatters like a diesel at idle.
The 1st thing I notice is the the new F30 is bigger than my E90. Bigger trunk, bigger back seat, more headroom, wider center console. Bigger, but not as comfortable. The new center console is wider and my right leg is not comfortable resting up against it.
The seats are nice and firm. Even though they are no Sport Seats, they have thicker bolsters than my car. I notice the buttons on the dash board are located much higher than they are in my car. The screen is smaller and I look down at the i-Drive controller and realize that this car doesn't have Navigation. No big deal, but the smaller screen looks like an afterthought. The steering wheel is bigger and is not as thick as the steering wheel in my car. Dash & interior materials are high quality.
Navigating my way out of the dealership's back lot, I notice the featherlight steering. I stop a minute after starting the car to adjust my seat some more and the car shuts off. What? Oh, auto stop/start. Take your foot off of the brake or tug the steering wheel and the car fires right back up instantaneously.
Right out of the dealership I notice how vague the steering response is and how soft the suspension is tuned. A few traffic lights later and I notice the "drive mode" button. I figure out the car is in "eco-pro" mode and toggle is forward 2 notches until it says "you are now in sport mode." Now we are getting somewhere. I notice the steering tightens up to an acceptable level and throttle response is instantaneous. I can't give it a full nail the gas and merge test because there is just too much traffic.
Once I'm on the highway, I figure I'll just toggle back down to "eco-pro" mode to see what kind of MPGs this baby can return. The car wallows, is unresponsive, and provides the same steering "feel" as a 1991 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Station Wagon. This lasts for approximately 25 seconds. I think to myself: "what are they kidding me?"
I toggle back into "sport" mode and notice the same thing that happened before, except now the 8 speed automatic shifts into 6th and won't go any higher, even though I'm cruising. Toggling the car into "comfort" mode dials back on the throttle response and steering weight. Plus the car will shift into 8th gear. But now the car is not as tight.
Pay the toll, dial up "sport" mode and mash the gas on the way out. The 8 speed autobox shifts crisply and the motor rockets the car forward. The engine and transmission are paired perfectly. You can tell they were designed together.
So now "sport" is the way to make the car drive decent. So in order to keep the revs down, select "sport," slide the beer tap shifter to the left, and "manually" shift into 8th gear.
Hit a decent amount of "bad weather" traffic once I hit the CT border. The brakes don't seem as strong as my E90, there seems to be a bit of pedal float until the brakes bite, and I can actually feel the car dive under semi hard braking.
While I was cruising, the trip computer said I was consuming fuel at a rate of 32 mpg. Even with the traffic, the car still returned 30.5 mpg. Good fuel economy numbers are nice, but that's not the main reason you buy "the ultimate driving machine."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
BTW, if you get Nav with F30, the screen would be larger - in the same place, but much wider. More less same size as on E9x. Also, I did not care for the standard seats too much, they actually made my thighs hurt. They may be better than previous standard seats, but still nowhere they should be. Sports seats are still way to go, if you want it.
Finally, IMHO Ultimate Driving Machine it is NOT. Not anymore.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I got to drive the car this morning. There's a lot less traffic when I leave @ 6:30 AM. The F30 seems to take twisty roads at a higher rate of speed than my E90, but it is not happy about it. The body pitches and rolls. The ride on the highway is comfortable, but not solid & hunkered down like my E90. My wife's Pilot gives better steering feedback.
I know Dino that you think I'm foolish for leasing & for many reasons you've stated, you are right. Even with the cash incentives & pumped up residual, my current E90 is going to be worth A LOT less than its stated lease end buyout when the lease is up. As it is now, my car with 23K miles is crossing the block at $26K. It's going to be worth much less in 17 months with 50K on the clock. As much as I love the car, I'm not willing to overpay for it at the end of the lease.
The F30 at any cost is not worth it to me. I'm definitely going to buy my next car & stick to a $25k - $30K budget.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I could have written that same post....I have to agree with your findings completely. The soft steering is to try to capture more of the North American market of course. If you want to drive the ultimate driving machine you have to keep the car in sport mode.
We were underwhelmed. That is why we liked the A4, it isn't as refined as the 328. Still has that old European charm. Audi needs an A4 with a manual transmission though.....not offered in Canada at least unless you go with an S model, but then you have to change to winter tires.
Good review, well done. btw...you can bypass the off/on feature, I only put it on if I am coming up to a long light or a train.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I never said that and I do not think that. Lease can be a good option, especially those subsidized ones, like you got. I think I can take such lease myself. However, the cars that I have liked and bought do not have offers even near that nice. BMW targets their lease subsidies toward high-volume or just-to-be-discontinued models. My wagon was neither at the time I bought it, so lease wasn't even close.
I understand your sentiment about the E90 lease return. When they pump up residual so much (to make payment term more pallatable), it is almost impossible to accept buying such overpriced car at the time of return. The only thing I'd do is keep my eyes open and be ready to deal, if they come up with an offer. They likely will not, but if they do (say offer to sell it to you at more realistic value), you could jump on it. It is an unlikely scenario, but possible. You just make sure there is nothing for them to charge you on wear and tear. You won't be able to do anything to miles, if you exceed the allowance, but scratches, dings, tires, and those things you just fix.
BTW, how are your tires at the moment? I have same mileage, almost to the dot and my Contis (Extremes, not Pros) are getting ripe for replacement in couple of thousand miles. Just about what I expected - not great, but I knew about it. Your Pros will last longer, however I wonder if you'l be able to stretch them to the end of the term and be able to return the car without new tires. It may be worth doing some anticipation calc. If you see they're wearing faster, then I'd change them sooner rather than later, as then you'd be one to enjoy the new tire, not the next guy. However, if you really think you can pull off keeping them till the end and not pay, then by all means...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I agree with Mike. I had HID's in a VW Passat (the real one, not the water down version) and in a Grand Cherokee. I thought there were great. The Passat had the adaptive lights (they turn with the car.) I missed that feature with the Jeep.
However, I do not miss that feature or HID's with my LED lights in my Wrangler. They are brighter, have better spread, and will last a long time (I had to replace one HID light in the Passat.)
Without a doubt, LED lights are the future.
How many miles are you BMW guys getting out of your tires?
I am at 25K miles and they seem alright...hoping to get 40K.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
LED's are the future, both in your car and your house.
:shades:
I spent so much time in the service dept with that Tempo, that I felt like I was a dealership employee. Finally, they said it was out of warranty so they wanted to charge me for stalling issue, that they never fixed in the first place. It also knocked like a persistent Jehovah's Witness.
I found a solution, finally. Back then I was going to the track with our junk Mustang (which ran solid 12s). We used the highest octane fuel we could find, which only one gas station carried. It contained lead, too (for a car designed for unleaded fuel). That took care of the knocks and the stalling, but at $4/gal (which was a lot at the time).
I was young(er) then and naive. I should have fought with Ford to lemon it, but didn't.
NYC...you're experiences with the new F30 BMWs are the same as mine when they let me test drive a couple. They're making them soft. I'm sure they'll sell more as a result. But, they're no longer "special" cars...expecially knocking on the $50K door. There are a whole lot better alternatives....most of them less expensive that offer a lot more.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
It's all about sales and market share. I wonder if it will be a success or if it will cancel out, meaning that they will pick up a bunch of sales to those who like "soft" but will also lose a bunch from the purists.
I've always said you can't be everything to everyone and it appears BMW is looking to do that. Lexus, can't do BMW and maybe BMW shouldn't be trying to do Lexus.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
2018 430i Gran Coupe
1978 VW Scirocco: White, black interior. Recaro seats, lovely wood gearshift knob and no A/C. Light, tight and tossable. IIRC, 77 horsepower. And, rust never sleeps. Sold it to a HS kid, 6 months later I drove by a body shop and there it was out front, side smashed in. I hope no one was hurt. This begat:
1984 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo: Arrest me red. Test drove with my Dad, first time the turbo kicked in: SOLD! Dad said he could see the money leaving my wallet, into the salesman's hand as the RPMs climbed. Fun, practical and reliable. My family had good luck with Mitsu's, a shame what has become of Mitsu in the US. Sold to a Dr. who was buying it for his daughter. He couldn't figure out reverse, kept grinding it, noting something was wrong with the tranny. His daughter had no such issue. He tried it again, I said the next time you grind reverse, you have bought the car! His daughter convinced him, he bought it, lucky girl. This begat:
1988 Acura Integra: Bright white exterior, black interior. A la Scirocco, light, tight and fun! May be the best screwed-together car I've owned, when you closed the door you were hermetically sealed in! Dug the pop-up headlights, hatchbacks ruled the day! Stereotypically reliable, both the Mitsu and Acura needed nothing beyond routine maintenance. This begat:
1990-1996: Personally, a dark period. I went into sales, had a series of forgettable, but serviceable four door domestic sedans (Olds 88, Mercury Sable, Dodge Intrepid). However, I lived vicariously through my wife:
1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R. See Scirocco, Mirage Turbo and Integra.
1995 Saab 900se. Expeciting first child, was deathly afraid wife would want a minivan or SUV. Saab hatch was wonderful.
2002 Lexus RX300. Second child on the way, wife done with manual trannys and every woman on earth seemed to want the RX. Still have it, but now it is the first born's driver. And mine, come this winter.
Now, back to me:
1999 Chrysler 300M. Silver, black interior. After leaving sales, I bought my co. Intrepid. Which I liked well enough (far from the Japanese build quality I had come to know, but reliable, good looking, practical and relatively fun) to take a chance and break all my rules: Never buy a first model year, domestic, Chrysler! I just fell for the 300M, and had 5.5 years of relatively trouble free driving enjoyment. But, it was a BIG car, and I grow bored easily. So, this begat:
2005 Acura TL. Abyss Blue, gray interior. Back to the future! Like my Integra, a well built, reliable, fun, practical piece of machinery. And, IMHO, unlike the current TL, a timeless, handsome design. I Zaino'd the heck out of it! Biggest (surprising) downside: lousy in the snow. Tires, most likely, but I bought dedicated snows/rims, problem solved. But, first time I've felt the need for snow shoes, and I'm a life-long New Englander/skier. Of course, eventually mid-life crisis has smacked me upside the head, and I had a bit of a windfall. So, this begat:
2009 Jaguar XK Coupe. Silver, charcoal interior. Grace with pace. V8, leather, wood, head-turning style. Fast, quiet, lovely ride, handles well, decent mpg. What is not to love? Oh, yeah. It don't go in snow. Duh, summer rubber, 275/35 in back. And, this will begat:
? Where do I go from here? My son said I must go Aston Martin. He is so fond of quoting Jeremy Clarkson, who while loving the XK himself, noted it just screams, "I bought a Jag because I can't afford an Aston Martin!" Truth be told, I'm not sure I can afford the Jag, but in 100 years it is very likely I will no longer be alive. So, there.
And, the wife? After 10 years with the Lexus, she bought an '11 BMW 535xi. She said it was more fun than the MB E Class and wanted to seat 5 over the Audi A7. Of course, after a Lexus RX300, I think a Smart car might be considered fun! Ok, not a Smart...
To be continued, hopefully!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
1. a husband/wife team who just bought a car together
2. a car salesperson who has sold a car to a memorable husband/wife team
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Interesting and expensive choices. None of my business, of course, but hope that does not begat your children's college education or trust funds. But then again, you said it was a windfall, so a Jaguar or a DB 9 won't put much of a dent in your budget anyway.
My only thing with the miles is that I want to be careful NOT to go over. My lease allows me 50,000 miles. From past experiences (my parents), I know that at 50,100 miles the BMWs call for brakes. I don't want to spend money on new brakes just to turn the car in. But at that point, the car will be out of warranty, so I can just have an indie shop do the work.
My tires are wearing nicely. I highly doubt they'll last the entire 50,000 mile life of the lease. I think I should be able to get another 12K out of them. As long as I can make it through next winter. I will definitely switch out the all seasons for a set of summer only high performance tires. I'll stick with run flats of course.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
As long as I have blood and vital organs to sell, kids are good for college. Trust funds? I trust that they will fund my old age... Besides, isn't Obama or Deval sending all our kids to college, while paying off our mortgages?
What do my cars and my investments have in common? They're both depreciating assets... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Thanks for your reply....it helps. I have non-SP so I guess if I can get 35K or more miles on them I should be satisfied.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The original equipment tires are Good Year Eagles 245/R45/19.
btw....I think you are fine leasing in your situation. Car is used for business any way so won't cost much more to lease than own, and may give you more flexibility at trade in time. You may even find someone who wants to buy it from you. Not a big deal either way IMHO.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Leases can be a good thing in certain situations. Like i said, I needed a new Jeep to start my business. I couldn't afford to buy, but I could lease. A good reliable vehicle really helped to get me started....don't know if I could have done it with an older vehicle.
Besides, I leased for 30 months then leased again for 24 months. Couldn't have found a way to get a new car for that price if I bought.
Sometimes, it is better to spend the money, get what you need and want, and not always try to find the most economical way to do things.
btw....I think having a nice new vehicle made me feel better too, and that can mean the difference between success and failure.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250