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  • jasmith52jasmith52 Member Posts: 462
    Well somebody must see something in those old Hondas that I don't. If I were going to drop $4700 on a used car I sure wouldn't buy a 9-year old Honda with 115k miles on it. I'd much rather have a something like 4-year old Taurus or Century or a 5-year old Impala. Besides being newer those cars will probably have half or less of the miles on them.

    But what do I know !
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Well somebody must see something in those old Hondas that I don't. If I were going to drop $4700 on a used car I sure wouldn't buy a 9-year old Honda with 115k miles on it. I'd much rather have a something like 4-year old Taurus or Century or a 5-year old Impala. Besides being newer those cars will probably have half or less of the miles on them.

    But what do I know !


    Let me hear ya say it again Brother. Get on your soap box, I got your back on this one. ;)
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Its strange folks would pay that kind of $$$ for
    a OLD miled up cam/cord !!!!

    My friend brought her 88 honda crx up from Fla. to NY.
    120k miles, cold AC, clean as a whistle !
    honda dealer offered her $500 as a trade in.........

    Sold it herself in 1 day for $3500 bucks and she could of asked for more! 3 guys fighting over it !!!!!!!

    I see it now and again. Some kid has it all ghettoed (spl)
    up with stickers, wing, spinnaz,and a set of "dubs" !!
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Correct....I was gong to comment earlier. It's kid appeal (acceptance) of the honda....but there is another forum for best vehicles for new drivers.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That 115,000 mile Honda is probably going to be more reliable than those other cars you mentioned with half the miles.

    Still, I do think those cars are a lot of car for the money as USED cars. I wouldn't touch one new because of the terrible depreciation.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    isell, seems like a conflicted post. :confuse:

    the vehicle represents a good value because of reliability and lower cost of ownership, but also yes, because of desireability and one's ability to sell it after owning it for many years for a good sum.

    in essence, it ends up being a better priced vehicle that something cheaper that doesn't hold it's value as well, and isn't as desireable.

    just my opinion.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Although the cars used as examples aren't **bad** cars, they still won't hold up in the long run like a Honda or a Toyota will.

    And they have dismal resale value. I think we would all agree on that.

    So, if a person happens to LIKE that Taurus or Impala, they can be a good value as used cars. A person might pay the same thing for a five year old one than a ten year old Honda with twice the miles.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    It does blow me away the money wholesalers pay for these cars. We have started to trade for quite a few of them on Fusion's and Edges. I mean we are not getting no $5K for them and at least here a 50K mile commuter car will always bring more then a 100K+ mile car don't care what kind it is. Whats funny to me is the 4 banger will bring more then the 6 :confuse: :confuse:
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    If memory serves, a couple months ago, Honda was running the exact same lease deal (same amount down and monthly payment) on the Accord SE and the Accord SE V6... Hmm, do I want 100 extra horsepower for the same amount of money out of pocket?

    Anyway, the big difference I see between the reliability of a 50k Taurus and a 110k Honda is that, by 50k, the Taurus has needed little more than oil changes, but by 110k, the Honda has needed not just oil changes but a coolant, ATF, and timing belt replacement. So availability of maintenance records is more important on the Honda.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Having just taken two sons through the teen age years, I can say older Honda Civics are the most desireable cars that parents buy their kids. I'm not surprised of the recent posts about the 98 Civic that went for full asking price of $4700.

    They get great mileage, have the latest safety equipment, and are rock solid reliable. Honda did it right with the Civic.

    And right there with it is the CRV. My youngest (19) is driving my 99 CRV with 130K miles and I'm amazed at the prices those things are still pulling in. I'm hoping it lasts until he finishes college.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The older car that the seller had 400K miles on... having the A/C go out in winter is a huge incentive to get a new car in a day or two as well.(no A/C = virtually no defroster!)

    115K is nothing - it's like buying an old Volvo 240 with 115K on it. "Barely broken in" is a common comment you hear. :)
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    good point. we sold a honda accord with 150K and a toyota corolla with 180K. great vehicles at that mileage, unlike other makes/mileage after 10+ years of reliable service.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >unlike other makes/mileage after 10+ years of reliable service.

    That is a part of the nurtured image that's not unique to those cars as some would want us to believe. My 93 Buick with 150K mi and 10 years on her has some body blemishes from golf balls and road trash that flipped up and hit the lower door but it ran great. The 3800 motor, the transmission, worked great. Everything worked including power windows, air conditioning, auto trunk unlock, radio...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    ok, i see your point. i didn't mean to imply ALL other makes / models would fail the 150K+ / 10Y+ test. however, maybe it's me, but here in ATL, i see lots and lots of 10Y+ model accords and toyotas on the highway driving along-side my now 5yr, purchased used accord. it's possible that i'm more inclined to notice them, having owned them. i'm planning on my honda giving me 10Y of trusty service. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >didn't mean to imply ALL other makes

    I understand. There are other factors in the longevity of cars and that's the demographics of those who buy them and then maintain them. There are demographic groups that fall all over themselves to carefully maintain a particular car because it's told to them that they must follow everything the dealer says and more or "else" the warranty may not be honored. Others are financially more affected. They buy a cheaper car because of lack of financial resources or interest and maintain that car at a lesser level; so that mode that's popularly sold with lots of discounts get lesser treatment. In the area where I grew up long ago that was afforded to Fords. And they typically had a higher failure rate needing repair earlier than the Chevrolets bought by people with more interest in putting money into maintainance and who were more careful to keep up their cars.

    My point is there is an owner factor, a dealer factor, a car "image" factor, and I suppose others that all fit into longevity of the model.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Most makes/models should pass the so called 150K+ / 10 year test. Of course any car needs to be taken care of to make sure it get there but they can easily do it. I see many Fords, Chevy's, Hyundais etc. that have to be pushing the 10 year mark all the time.

    My current daily drive is a Hyundai that I am planning on getting 10 years of trusty service out of (so far so good).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Maybe, maybe not. With 115K miles its primary systems may still go strong, but little things like CV joints/axles, 3rd timing belt, fuel pump, etc. will need repairs. They have a "right" to break - and they will. And it will cost. Physics can't be cheated. But I can see owners excusing that because it's an old car, whereas a small defect in 60K mile Impala will be interpreted "what do you expect - it's GM, isn't it?".

    The old Civic vs newer Impala (or any similar) comparison is result of over reaction to quite valid concerns on GM side (fleet depreciation, past reliability, generally unapealing product, etc.) and overrewarding Honda, where statistically superior reliability is interpreted as total freedom from failures to the point where an objective and emotionally unattached person cannot justify purchasing Honda.

    As much as I like Japanese cars (and I own one), I do not see 10-12 year 100K+ Honda being worth more than 4-5 year old 60K Impala, especially after recent GMs reliability improvements. I'm no fan of GMs products whatsoever - they are cheap, drive like crap, and they don't even manufacture type of product I would want. I do not see myself buying any of their product new, but given a choice as above, I'd not hesitate, pending results of vehicle inspection. However, couple of thosands dollars difference, or couple of years, or a few thosand miles, and the choice becomes obvious the other way.

    The fact that "market" thinks otherwise is only relevant to a point. Market "chose" Microsoft products, even when they were clearly inferior to the competition.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Exactly, the key to any car is taking care of it. If you don't maintain it then you will have problems with no one to blame but your self. I am running a 2001 Explorer with 157K on it and have had to have the Ball Joints replaced but other then that there has been no major repairs in its history. You just got to spend the $$ to have the 30K interval services done. They are pricey but well worth it in the long run.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, timing belts call for replacement at 105,000 miles. CV joints rarely go bad unless the boots somehow get ripped and people don't bother replacing the boots before grit get's in and ruins the joint. Even then, it's not a huge expense. I have NEVER heard of a fuel pump going bad on a Honda but I guess it can happen.

    You may not see a 10 year old Honda being worth more than a 5 year old Impala but it's a fact.

    BTW, our third car that sits behind a gate in our side year is a 1989 Buick Le Sabre T-Type that we bought new. The bulletproof 3800 engine blew a piston at 75,000 miles. Very unusual since that is probably the best engine GM has ever produced. Today it has 140,000 miles and everything works on it. Last year, I think I drove it 200 miles.

    I wouldn't be afraid to drive it to California tomorrow.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    have NEVER heard of a fuel pump going bad on a Honda but I guess it can happen

    That's why any dealer's or non-dealer's garage I know recommends fuel pump change at timing belt. Just in case, of course. But since the NEVER go bad, why exactly they recommend it?

    C'mon - Hondas, Toyotas et al are good cars, but please - there is a threshold of common sense we should not cross. I know several people who had their Accords literally falling apart (not even that old). Things do happen and regardless of how well built a vehicle is, at 100K+ miles they will to lesser or greater extent perhaps, but they will.

    You may not see a 10 year old Honda being worth more than a 5 year old Impala but it's a fact

    No - it's an opinion - shared by many I will admit - hence the market prices. But it is worth more TO THEM, which is fine with me, but it does not make it a fact.

    Stock market values some companies way too high or to low. Of course, it eventually corrects the valuation, but it sometimes takes months or years.

    People have a lot of brand preferences that make them buy certain product at a premium over another. In a sense, the value of that product does increase because of the demand. However, there is a threshold of "irrational exuberance". I think market did pass it in case of used Hondas or Toyotas - but it's again my opinion and lets leave it at that.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You are confusing the water pump with a fuel pump. Since everything is apart during a water pump job, the water pump (with 100,000 miles) is exposed and easy to replace. It just makes sense to replace it.

    And, no, I can't remember hearing of a bad fuel pump on a Honda but I'm sure it happens.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Ooops - I of course meant water pump al along :blush::blush:

    I stick to my assesment, though - I would go against the "market" opinio, or rather - would take advantage of it by getting something I think is better.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    No - it's an opinion - shared by many I will admit - hence the market prices.

    I think you just made isell's argument. The market price is the market price, despite how good a car is. If people pay more for the 10 yr old Honda, that may be their opinion but it drives up the value. He just stated the fact that the Honda is worth more than the 5 yr old Impala.

    My 95 Accord that my son now drives has 220K miles so I tend to buy the Honda argument but I'm well aware that other cars last that long and that other Hondas have issues. I guess I trust the people in the business to know resale values because it is how they make their living. :)
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    The market price is the market price, despite how good a car is. If people pay more for the 10 yr old Honda, that may be their opinion but it drives up the value. He just stated the fact that the Honda is worth more than the 5 yr old Impala.

    I would say this. I would buy a 5 year old Impala with 50k miles over the Honda with 110k miles because I assess the risk of failure of the older car to be greater.

    Why? Because once you get much above 100k miles, a lot is riding on how well the car was maintained throughout the period of ownership.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,280
    That was the point I was trying to make earlier. If the 110k Honda is a one-owner with a full service history and the Impala is an unknown, the picture changes.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,565
    I tend to think that the big advantage in reliability and maintenance issues that Honda enjoys is much more pronounced over the first 100K miles.. Pretty much bulletproof and hassle-proof, even with shoddy maintenance...

    Once a car reaches 100K, they all seem to need parts replacement, and the individual car they are given seems to be more important than whether they are domestic or imports...

    I don't find 150K Hondas to be that much more reliable or of lower cost to maintain than any other model, though they seem to have that reputation.

    just my off-topic $0.02..

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  • cwalticwalti Member Posts: 185
    ...I dare you!!! :-)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have to disagree.

    Reputations are EARNED.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you bring up some very valid points...surveys have shown that the spread in reliability between domestics vs imports narrows quite a bit as the mileage/age increases.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    The reason old Honda's and Toyota's are worth so much is because people hate having to deal with crooked and fraudulent mechanics that overcharge. With a Honda or Toyota, even if its really old, you rarely have to deal with a mechanic.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have noticed that as cars age and accumulate miles people slack off on the maintenance.

    They figure the car isn't worth much so they just do the bare minimum. They skip major services and only fix what breaks.

    They figure the car isn't going to last long and sure enough, negelected, it won't.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    We bought a '92 Civic Hatchback with 166K miles on it, kept and drove it up to 200K, and didn't have to spend much of anything until we sold it (where we decided new brakes and brake parts per the mechanics recommendation would be a good idea). We ended up selling it for $2700 cash. EXTREMELY economical car to own, virtually no depreciation. It still ran strong and will probably reach 300K easy. Granted, the dealer who sold it to us did already replace the water pump, the brake pads, and the emblems.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Why? Did someone steal them?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Heck, it sounds to me like a Honda store having a Service Department is a complete waste of money. All they need is a scheduled maintanence lane. Because never in the history of auto manufacturing has a Honda ever broke down. :D:D
  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    For an example, I drive a 1990 Honda Accord with 144K miles. In the past few years, I have had to replace the slave and master cylinder, front rotators and pads, replaced a broken knob on the AC, and did the timing belt "stuff" for the second time (first time @70K). That's it for a car that is over 17 years old. This is just one example of how little an old Honda needs repaired. How many domestics last this long with so little repair work?

    :shades:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Not quite but I have seen a lot ov VERY high miled up Hondas that have never needed major work.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    My wife ran a '94 Civic up to 100,000 miles a few years ago. No problems with the engine or tranny, but the a/c compressor went out @45,000 miles, various interior parts kept falling off (plasic covers and knobs), and the headliner started falling down at one point. This is very odd for us, as we take really good care of our cars, and typically don't have these kinds of problems that usually result from abuse.

    She now has an '06 Element, EX, 4wd, automatic. We have had it a year as of today, and it only has 8,000 miles on it. I am hoping it holds up better than the Civic.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    In the past few years, I have had to replace the slave and master cylinder, front rotators...

    Need a little help here.

    I know what a master cylinder is but what is a "slave"? Could this be a wheel cylinder? I know some people refer to parts of the ABS as "slaves", is that what you're doing here?

    Front "rotators", I know you meant "rotors", so I'm not going to question this. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • bamaflumbamaflum Member Posts: 39
    Thanks, I did mean rotors. I'm not a mechanic, but the clutch has a couple of cylinders that periodically need to be replaced. I call them a master and slave cylinder.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Yes, apparently Honda emblems are quite a popular steal on older Honda's. One person steals yours, so you steal someone else's to replace your own type syndrome???

    So rather than sell us a Honda with no emblems on it, the dealer smartly replaced them.

    I consider anything having to do with the brake system, including all parts, to be maintenance once you reach 125K miles, and not really a repair.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bdc2020bdc2020 Member Posts: 58
    We bought a used 1995 Saturn in '97. It's at 105,000 miles. Only 1 repair ever, the 02 sensor went bad. Granted not a lot of miles, but the car is 12 years old now, was bought used, and never sits in a garage and is used daily in stop-and-go traffic to get me to/from work and do our errands. We got our money out of it for sure. It's worth nothing now on trade/sale IMO, but I don't care as I never buy any car thinking it's an investment. I'll drive it till it dies.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Out of all the transactions I have done over the years when ever I think of this one I feel a little guilty, then I remember how big of an A-hole this customer was and it goes away real quick and I just smile.

    The year was 1996, I was at my desk trying to figure out how I was going to make a couple grand in gross to get to a bonus level. I had the units but needed gross. So I was spending the majority of the day avoiding new car customers and looking for a used car deal.

    I catch a sales call and a guy starts telling me about his broke down Volvo Wagon and if I could tell him how to get it towed there so he could trade it for a used taurus wagon we had. i say no problem, I will send a truck now where do you live.

    So about 2 hours later him and and the car roll in on the tow truck. Good looking car, no calls other then it would not start. He said he had been trying for days. It was 8 years old with 95K miles on it.

    So any how we tell him we will give him $2500 for it on a wholesale bid, he says fine and ends up switching to a new taurus to get the rebate. Crap I say another short deal and I am no closer to the gross level I need to be at.

    BTW this guy was a real homer, just a sad, man who had nothing good to say about anything and he talked to his wife and kids on the phone like a dog. i have no respect for guys who bad mouth there wife like he did. I know if it was not for my wife i would be no where near as successful as I am.

    Anyhow the guy leaves in his new ride and the Tow Truck driver comes buy to get paid. I happen to say to him "Wouldn't jump start huh? He said I don't know the azz hole it belonged to would not let me try. So I think what the hell let me grab a jump box. That puppy fired right up like nobody's business. Come to find out there was a dead cell in the battery.

    My $2500 piece instantly turned into a $5300 Piece and my mini deal turned into $2600 after the cost of battery.

    Now if this guy had not told his wife on the phone to STFU, and told his little girl that he did not care what her and her mother made for dinner, and if had not told me that he would rather have a root canal then talk to some one like me I probably would have called him back and told him we got more for his trade. But like Earl say, its all about the karma.

    Oh and before anyone starts doubting as to weather or not I would have called him back. I have done it in the past. The greatest call in the world is calling some one and telling them you missed a rebate or something and you will be mailing them a check for $XXX. Talk about icing a customer for life ;)
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    good story joel! its nice to finally hear a story instead of which brand of vehicle is better/will last longer :P

    -thene :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We don't have any Fits to drive either. They are almost always sold before they ever arrive.

    We tried to keep one in stock for people to drive but that didn't work very well. We had a constant line up of people during busy times wanting to drive it. In addition some of the other stores in the area were sending people to us just to test drive.

    So, now I tell people they can drive their Fit after it arrives. If, for any reason, they decide they don't like it, we will tear up their deposit check.

    So far, this hasn't happened.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I consider anything having to do with the brake system, including all parts, to be maintenance once you reach 125K miles, and not really a repair.

    I consider brake work to be maintenance even when it happens at 40K miles, like it usually happens to me.

    Since we’re talking about brakes, if you’re out there Joel, I have a question about son no. 2’s, 2001 Explorer.

    Would you mind marching out to your service dept. and asking why the emergency brake shoes had to be replaced at 89K miles. I just replaced them last Saturday and I can’t understand how they wear out if they are only used when you apply the emergency brakes. The drums never turn against them when the car is parked, so how do they wear out? The only thing I can think of is when you are backing up the self adjusters move the shoes against the drums and eventually they wear out. If that’s the case he and his wife drive in reverse way too much. They do, however, have a rear garage that slopes down toward the back and they always back the car down the driveway so it’s easier to pull into the garage. This of course means they are pretty much on the brakes all the time while backing down the driveway.

    FWIW, only one side was completely worn out (lining completely worn off down to the metal shoe) causing the familiar grinding sound which is what told him he had a problem (he’s my son so he’s pretty bright). The opposite side was only half worn out.

    Yes, yes, while I was in there I replaced the combination rotor/drum, regular brake pads and the calipers on both sides. Cost him around $260 for all the parts. The dealer said they would have charged a little over $740. He says he owes me. Yeah, and I’ll probably collect for this work just after he pays for everything else I spent on him until he went out on his own, including four years at Penn State.

    So, whadaya say, you gonna do this for me? I’ve never done nothin bad to you ….. yet. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Why doesn't Honda manufacture enough Fits to overflow your lots? Or to at least stock up similar to the Civic.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Beats me. I know they are building another facility to build them. I think they got blindsided by the demand.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Why doesn't Honda manufacture enough Fits to overflow your lots? Or to at least stock up similar to the Civic.

    Economics

    Supply down

    Demand high

    Profit good

    Get to many of them and the next thing ya know someone wants to negotiate hold back.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    threw in the 1.8L VTEC of the Civic in the sport Fit.

    Now that should be quite fast.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
This discussion has been closed.