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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Advice from any "expert" should always be taken worth a grain of salt...and that goes for the ones on both sides of the coin.

    Many of the "negotiate your best car deal" experts are just as full of crap as the "how to hold top gross on every deal" experts.

    Treat people the way you would want to be treated...and if all else fails, take ardent notes, and write a blog exposing the most annoying people you come in contact with!
  • fitrnfitrn Member Posts: 47
    very well said... I just ask that if a question seems offensive it may be from ignorance not meant for insult so a patient meaningful response is a beautiful thing... we all have tough days and are here for a reason either to learn or to share.... :blush:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Yeah, a lot of "experts" that write books and articles that scare people into believing we are all just horrible people to deal with.

    I suspect some of these "experts" are people who tried and failed in this business.
    But a lot of the horror stories are so true. A lot of stores have constant turnover of salespeople and management.

    Thie is exactly why I always suggest asking your family and friends for a REFERRAL instead of just walking in.

    Much of my business comes to me in that fashion!


    You got that right. And allot if it is the same old regurgitaed crap you read everywhere. I really like the guys who are slamming car salesmen for greed yet they are charging $19.95 for a bunch of useless information you can get or free :):D
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, I'm still here and I have been since the beginning.

    And I (usually) play "nice".
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    i appreciate the sentiment, but i am not working for life is good - but a start up company who's shirts are similar (yet different) to the life is good brand (they are the closest i can compare to). so in essence you bought from my competitor! argh!

    Well if that don't beat all. A poster buying from a competitor. :sick:

    Try this. You said in a previous post "a la life is good", just say "a la (insert the name of your outfit here)" and see if that gets by security.

    You know the real posters here will help you out and spread the word.

    Just don't forget where you got your start. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I think you misunderstood my post. The Jist is we get customers who come in arrogant or defensive because of the treatment or perceived treatment they have received at the hands of other dealers. It is my job to show them how we are different. And I might add, not all customers are honest or nice. Most are however.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I have been rude (venting) here and I apologize.
    I seem to keep being off on my numbers and would like an honest explanation.
    I drive a 91 Camaro pro street mostly. It frappe'd the trans recently. I went on ebay and bid on a 2005 Mustang (Yellow GT A/T with Shaker 1000).
    Don't really want a Mustang, but love the stereo. I was hi bid but didn't meet reserve. Guy calls me from Crown Automotive (Nissan) in NC and says he'll sell for $22k. (Edmunds says $21,780 retail) Fine. I say I have trade, he's ok with that. I drive 2 hours, leave key in my car for appraiser and look for coffee. I have title and cash. My trade is 2006 Toyota Solara SLE V6 with trade-in from Edmunds at $18 and change. I figure we'll be $3k apart and haggle over 3 or 5 hundred. No problem. He presents the paper with $6,109 difference. I said where are my keys and where is my car. He says what's wrong. I am bending over as far as I can on a $28k sticker Toyota with 13k miles, but he wants what I see as 3 thousand free dollars. Please tell me why dealers are always off by 3 to 4 grand. Is it them or is it me? I'm trading down a year. If cars were reversed would I still have to pay difference? ps I actually get along with people just fine, but car dealers elude me. :confuse:

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • fitrnfitrn Member Posts: 47
    I was wondering since you sell hondas do you have any info about the release of the 2008 fit??? I can't seem to find any confirmations, only speculations. Have you heard anything or know where I can go to research it? I have run into dead ends :confuse:
  • fitrnfitrn Member Posts: 47
    that is frustrating for sure,, just keep your patience finding a dealership that will treat you well.... it is worth the wait....
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Is it them or is it me?"

    It is you, Mako1a. You have unrealistic expectations and that makes car buying very frustrating.

    The dealer gives you a price. You can either pay what they ask or make your own offer. Yes, it is that simple.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The new models usually start showing up in September.

    No reason to think otherwise on the Fits.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't understand...

    You don't really want to buy a Mustang but you love the stereo??

    Why not just dump a grand on a killer system for your Solara?
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Could this be another potential customer for rlatham? :blush:
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Unfortunately a lot more goes into putting a used car value on a vehicle than just looking up what KBB and Edmunds say. They're OK for getting an idea (usually taking an average is a reasonable assessment) but not the source most dealers use to appraise cars. To give you an idea... I have a 2006 BMW 325i. Two months ago, I looked at NADA Online who said my car should trade for $31k (more than I paid for it new), Edmunds, who said my car should trade for $26k, Kelly who said $24K, the Black Book $21k, and up-to-date auction reports ($20k-$24k). As you can see... that's a HUGE difference between all the sources. If your car is not one the dealer is going to keep on his lot... they have to go with what the auctions say the car is worth, and unfortunately that information is not available to the public.

    Now... what you didn't include in your post here is a reasonable assessment of what your car is worth. Is your Solara currently owned by a celebrity or otherwise an extremely rare car? If not, there's no way you'll get the "excellent" value for it without the dealer padding the value of the trade. What kind of condition is your car compared to other vehicles of the same model equipment and year? If it appears to be in good shape.. but all the other 2006 Solara's are in good shape... unfortunately your car can't really be more than "average"

    Keep in mind... just like we have to sell you our car, if you want to trade yours, you have to sell it to us too. A busy used car department can see up to if not more than 100 used cars a day. If you want more than "average book" for the car, you're going to have to make it stand out a bit more than "here's my keys, what's it worth"

    If all that seems to be too much of a hassle... try selling it on your own. Since you know how buying cars works so well you should be excellent at it!!!
  • fitrnfitrn Member Posts: 47
    any idea if it will be a hybrid?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Even if the dealer plans to keep the car traded in, it is still only worth what the dealer can buy one at the auction for. Some cars can be so "back of book" that it's staggering. Most domestics fit in that catagory and cars that use a lot of gas are really suffering now.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Another thought on the same subject... did you take regional information into account? For example, a 2 wheel drive Jeep Grand Cherokee is going to sell for a lot more in Florida than Chicago... and a two hour drive from where I work would see a significantly decreased value for anything imported (it's Ford and Chevy country out there!!!)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I seriously doubt it.

    People aren't standing in line for the hybrids we have now.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    absolutely!!!!!
  • fitrnfitrn Member Posts: 47
    and if I may ask, any idea if there are more options? It seems Honda has been mum on the subject because I can't find any info anywhere :cry: ... Thanks for the info :)
  • cwalticwalti Member Posts: 185
    I can see your frustration, but I also think you walk into these situations with more assumptions than clear understandings. I too do not know where the exact limits are and how a dealer REALLY gets compensated. But when I walk into a dealer's cave I am prepared and I have a clear understanding as to what numbers I am willing to agree. I also announce my expectations beforehand and suggest that the closer to these numbers theirs are the smoother the transaction will be. If the gap is too wide, I thank everybody for their time and go home, until a better deal pops up. Keep your expectations realistic and your assumptions closer to ZERO, and a car salesman will not goad you into a situation you don't like. I never understood how people can walk into a dealership not having a good understanding of what it is! It is not a school for one to learn, nor is it a training camp. It is a business venture that is to generate cash for the stake holders. The more critically a customer can discern what he is faced with, the more a dealer has to conduct himself in straight and professional manner. A salesman can only push around an unprepared din-dong that walks in without a clue as to what is going on, and it is not his responsibility to educate the ding-dong!!!
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    "A salesman can only push around an unprepared din-dong that walks in without a clue as to what is going on, and it is not his responsibility to educate the ding-dong!!!"

    THANK YOU!!!
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    unrealistic expectations? Is it the trade thing? Would KBB be more realistic? Where are the realistic numbers I can accept or reject before driving on a lot? What specifically is wrong with my calculations that we are always 3-4 thousand off?

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • cwalticwalti Member Posts: 185
    B I N G O ! ! ! !

    ...it takes a Honda man to tell a Toyord or Foryota driver... :-)
    I would NEVER trade a car for it's factory or custom stereo!!
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    The way we work here, I get 3-5 bids on the trade, show them to the customer, and top bid is my ACV. (actual cash value) This is also my trade allowance
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Did you discuss your expectations for your trade before you left, or did you just turn up expecting KBB value?
  • cwalticwalti Member Posts: 185
    The hybrid is a flawed concept and only gained the market access because of our ignorant and stupid legislature. for future transportation, it will not be a viable option.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    By realistic, I assume you mean what you can expect a dealer to offer you on trade for your car. The best way you can get that is to get your dealers liscense and start going to the auctions.

    Now, if that isn't something you're prepared to do...

    Check Kelly Blue Book. Get the "fair" trade value...(don't bother with too many knit-picky details...most dealers don't care whether a car has upgraded wheels) Oh yeah...and modifications, paint work, body work, unclean carfax, etc... seriously hurts a cars value. When you get the "fair" value...estimate you're going to be within $1500 in either direction...and depending on the vehicle and the market you're trading it...up to $5000 in either direction.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Maybe it's just because I'm new here...but I find it rather entertaining customers are coming in here looking for sympathy. This is, afterall, a salesperson's rant board...
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I guess this is our "modern world" huh?

    No more like the product of its environment, how id the neighborhood that it is in? Has it also declines?

    I know some Sears stores that are very trashy and some that are very nice. They seem to mirror their environment more than anything else.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    They put $18 something on my trade as it is perfect. They raised the price on the Mustang because he "forgot" he quoted me $22k on the phone after ebay ended and his boss wouldn't sell for that. Huh? He called me the next day and came $500 off. I said there is zero chance I'll ever be on your lot again. As far as buying a car for a stereo. Sounds reasonable to me. I already have a perfect car in the Solara, It's just boring to me. Camaro has a superb stereo which I missed after 1 day in the shop.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Rlatham,

    It's a bit strange. Do us all a favor and post some of your stories. I've run a bit dry recently. That or I just don't have patience to write one all out right now. (The pollen is getting to me.)

    Oh ya, pay no mind to people flaming you. Just keep up with the stories. This is the reason why we have so many posts here, because it all started with a story.

    -mOO
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    The vast majority of people I sell cars to I'd love to see again. Most of my customers are very friendly, easy going people...very much like myself. Occasionally I get one who I really don't care if I ever see them again or not because they're just so downright nasty.

    Two days ago I got a call from one of my formers in the second category.

    I obviously did something right for him when he bought the car because no matter how hard I try he won't go away. This time, he wants to trade his large german luxury sedan on a rugged station wagon. No matter how you cut it, on it's best day his car is only worth $10,000...he won't trade it for less than $18,000.

    The car he wants to buy is priced exceptionally (it's a $31,000 car) in the lower $20,000's. He won't buy the car for more than $20,000.

    I told him to go away...he didn't.

    "I have on record that cars just like mine sold for $17,000...and so I won't take less than $18,000 for it"

    "That's nice...sell it yourself"

    "I can't do that, I don't have time"

    "Well, this is what I'll give you for it...if you don't like it...you can sell it yourself"

    "Ok, I'll sell it myself"

    "How much room do you have left in the car we're looking at?"

    "$100-200 if that"

    "Well if you give me an extra $3000 off I'll take it"

    "Have a nice day"

    "What?"

    "I said...have a nice day."

    I heard a long pause and then *click*

    I love when people hang up on me.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    next time...get it in writing...ok...next subject.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    A customer walks in..." Hi, I'ld like to see your invoice on that Scion" Rude or not? Anyone?

    Not rude since its a response to industry practices.

    Or a customer who takes endless cellphone calls with a devise jammed in his/her ear while I am trying to conduct business.. Rude or not?

    Depends of who is the customer is and why they are taking the phone call. My sister is a medical doctor who oft times is on call. Her cell phone ringing can be a matter of life and death. Situations like that no.

    Joe blow just taking any and all calls yes.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I don't find it surprising that people have unrealistic expectations, whether it's the value of their trade, the amount they think you should sell them a car for, or what their 'rights' are.

    However, it does make me smile (and more) when they actually get upset that they're not going to get their own way. :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Not sure what you mean by "options".

    There are a lot of dealer installed accessories you can certainly add.
  • ventureventure Member Posts: 3,165
    You are a very fortunate buyer to have someone covering your back when you buy a car. As for me and I’m pretty sure, the others here, we just don’t have this luxury.

    The last time I was ready for a car I was looking at the Mazda 6 Grand Touring. As hard as I tried I just could not buy one from that dealership. The sales guy I was working with said he located what I wanted in the next state (this was on a Friday afternoon). I asked him to call them and make sure he could get it and I would even drive their trade down to Maryland to pick it up. He said he would call Monday morning and let me know when to start out to get it.

    Monday morning came and went and no phone call. I stopped in Monday afternoon. He still hadn't called the other dealership. I persuaded him to call and he found out that the car I was interested in was still on the boat. :sick:

    The next day I bought my BMW - what I *really* wanted anyway. (At another dealership since my friend doesn't sell BMW).

    The next time I saw my friend I mentioned that there was no way I could buy a car at his dealership no matter how hard I tried. He just laughed and said that wasn't the first time he had heard that story. :)

    So let’s just be good poster buddies.

    Everything is good. If you need a Chevy, Hyundai, Mazda, or Cadillac I may be able to fix you up. ;)

    2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport

  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "My sister is a medical doctor who oft times is on call. Her cell phone ringing can be a matter of life and death. Situations like that no."

    Funny you should say that. My father and brother are both physicians at a large teaching hospital and both have been, or are on-call on average one week every 45-60 days and both have been called in to deal with an ICU crisis or pronounce a patient brain dead--not a pleasant prospect to be sure. I've never seen either of them use a cell phone while attempting to work any transaction although both carry a pager and can either retrieve their phone or ask to borrow one. It's my opinion that the misuse of cell phones has created a new level of arrogant rudeness that some attempt to deflect by declaring self-importantly, "I have an emergency".

    I just spent several hours at three different dealerships and never once reached for my cell phone nor did any of the salesmen. Imagine that! I even bought a car.

    Gogiboy
  • ineptinept Member Posts: 4
    o.k.

    I've been mishandled. I need to know if I have an out or not.

    Two days ago we bought a Mazda 3 from a local dealership. After some give and take we bought the car we "almost" wanted. The salesman stated that he would sell it to us for $1 over invoice. Anyways...no "other/extra" costs are ever mentioned until we agree on a price and car.

    So, the purchase agreement is pushed forward and on it is a "dealer fee" of 598.00 and a documentation fee of $99.00.
    I knew it was a rip-off add-on. I agreed to it!!!!! I thought to myself that this is how they can afford to sell me a car at invoice...no big deal. I wasn't too happy about it, but ...my wife loved the car. We had picked it out and agreed to purchase it...

    O.k...I'm going to make this short. We bought on Friday. Found out over the weekend that the side air-bags that the salesman said were standard on this model are not, and we don't have them. We made concessions on what we wanted to get the side air bags. We called the dealer and they have agreed to swap out vehicles for one with the side air bags...

    The problem is:

    $598 "dealer fee"
    The "invoice price" that the salesman quoted me is $300 higher than Edmunds says it should be including options...

    So...it looks like that adds up to about a $900.00 rip off...more or less.

    Can I take the car back when we "swap" and re-do the paperwork and tell them I'm no longer interested in their "deal?"
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I've never seen either of them use a cell phone while attempting to work any transaction although both carry a pager and can either retrieve their phone or ask to borrow one.

    My sister carries both the pager and cell phone. I think she said they try her one way first then the other way next.

    I just spent several hours at three different dealerships and never once reached for my cell phone nor did any of the salesmen.

    I can pretty much say the same thing. FWIW checking the timers on my phones I use mine on average something like 6 minutes a day.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Ok...

    "The "invoice price" that the salesman quoted me is $300 higher than Edmunds says it should be including options... "

    Two words: Ad fees. Almost every manufacturer has them...yes they're a legit invoice charge...Edmunds does not report on these...and they disclose this clearly.

    $598 "dealer fee"

    Probably prep charge or freight charge...you're not very specific on this one...if you don't think it's legal talk to a lawyer...keep in mind they're a large organization who has lots of lawyers working for them...if it weren't legal they wouldn't do it. (keep in mind ethics and laws are two different things)

    Technically they do not even have to do the swap for airbags. They have a signed contract that you are going to pay them what you agreed to for that particular car. The "3 day cooling off period" for cars is a myth except in one or two states. If you try to just give the car back they'll probably not honor the swap anymore...so you'll be stuck with the car you've got now....oh...and don't get nasty. If you get too nasty they have every right to throw you out and no longer honor the swap.

    Bring up your concerns with the manager...other than that best of luck...you're going to need it.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "Your opinion is very incorrect. However if I am going to drop $20K+ on something I am surely going to do my research and make sure I am making the right choice. Its not like I am spending 65 cents at a pop machine."

    Snake--surely you can get your Hyundais for well south of $20K can't you? ;)

    I see that Edmunds lists the Accent GLS with 06 accessory group minus customer cash for a TMV of $14,090. That's $6+K you can devote to 65 cent sodas and new accounting software for tax season. :)

    Gogiboy

    Gogiboy
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Snake--surely you can get your Hyundais for well south of $20K can't you?

    Azera's are much higher than $20K, many of the higher end Sonatas are north of $20K.

    Not to mention the Caddy in the garage.

    It still stands that if I am dropping that much money on anything I will do a lot of research on it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ineptinept Member Posts: 4
    O.k. I'm pretty sure you must be the guy I bought the car from. Or a salesman.

    The $598 is a "special benefits package."

    and, no...there was no advertising fee on the "vehicle invoice." and there should not be. Any advertising fee should be stated as such and would be considered an additional fee, not part of the vehicle cost.

    The salesman specifically told me that the side impact airbags were "standard" on the model of vehicle I purchased. We opted for an automatic instead of a manual because the salesman told us that they did not have a manual with the side air bags...

    so, he's either an idiot, liar or has no idea what he is talking about.

    The best part is that they offered us a free tank of gas if we came to the dealership so they could help fill out the "customer satisfaction survey..." I'll rip them a new one. They can have their tank of gas.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    hahaha...you make me laugh...you come on a salespersons rant forum and accuse me of being a salesperson...which I am and am proud of it.

    I believe you're the idiot...because you didn't pay close enough attention to realize you were getting ripped off.

    You could have avoided some confusion there if you would have asked to see it...but ad fees are legit manufacturer to dealer invoice charges. Edmunds even says so...and really...if you would have done a little research BEFORE going to buy your car this whole situation wouldn't have happend now would it?

    I'm afraid you're much like the customer who was griping about trade values earlier. It's not our job to baby sit you all.

    Tried to help but you flamed...don't get angry at me for your mistakes.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Hey, folks, this is getting out of hand. The topic is "Stories from the Sales Frontlines." It is not a suitable place to ask advice of sales people. If you want some appropriate Forum for seeking advice from salespeople please make use of Smart Shopper - Suggest a topic of discussion.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • ineptinept Member Posts: 4
    Actually, I came here for advice/help. You offered neither. Just a lame "line" from a salesman.

    I didn't call you an idiot. I stated that the salesman that I bought the car from "may" be an idiot. And, since you are a salesman...he may be you. (of course, the joke was lost on you...)

    I just think that if a "knowledgeable salesman" tells you that the model of car you are purchasing has side air bags as a standard feature..then it should be so. If it's not so..then what is a customer supposed to assume, and what is your recourse.

    I bought the car, I signed the papers, I'll live with the consequences.

    But, If they don't want to make "their" mistake right, I'll slam them completely on the survey. Apparently that's somewhat important in your miserable little lives.

    Thanks for your help?????????????????
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Please reread this: tidester, "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" #9922, 26 Mar 2007 8:48 pm

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • ineptinept Member Posts: 4
    Are you asking me to reread this...or is this being sent "up higher?"

    rlatham started it...I saw it. <<<<<joke!
This discussion has been closed.