One more thing - if you can, don't settle on one car. The only real power you have in this kind of negotiation is to get up and leave, and that only works if you have a real alternative. So, unless you absolutely have to have, say, a 530i, keep the E350 and GS350 as meaningful (you'd be willing to buy one) options. If, on the other hand, you absolutely have to have a particular make/model/color, well, be prepared to pay to satisfy your needs!
I still have all those amplifiers and the subs sitting in the garage.
Oh My That's like unplugging a few injectors on a Vette because it's too fast. That "Mach 1000" 3 amp unit you have from the 04 is better than the Shaker 1000. Not to mention rare.
My wife said I'm a "shell of a man " without my Camaro. Moping around all day waiting for it to come home all fixed.
I'll wait for the Camaro and drive the wussie Solara till it trades or just goes away.
texas.....maybe personal preference, but I'm a big believer that you can get paralysis by analysis when shopping different brands models.
I do my research. Pick the car/model I want. And then, negotiated on that particular brand/model.
I don't pay more for making up my mind early in the process. I just eliminate the alternatives. It saves me time and headaches. If the dealer is willing to deal with my offer on my choice, good for both of us. If not, the next dealer of my chosen brand/model is right down the road.
Admittedly, it's a little tougher on some brands, than others. For example, there are only two Lexus dealers in my 'burg. They're both owned by the same person. I've tried to deal fairly with both stores, but could never come to a deal because they've locked down hefty margins that are adhered to by both stores. That's probably why I've never bought from either of them.
As a side note, if I really wanted a Lexus, I wouldn't have any issues with going to the next town to get one (or the town after that).
Mercedes doesn't interest me because of a variety of reasons.
All that said, all the Audi, Porsche, BMW delaerships around me have different owners. They are higly competitive with each other. That nets good deals.
Throwing too many model/brand variables into the mix does little more than frustrates the buyer and the seller. No need to make it difficult. Decide how much you're willing to pay. Go the the store(s) that carry your model. Make your offer. They either accept it. Or, you move on. Telling the dealer you're also looking at "Y", when you really want "X" doesn't help.
rl....it's a two way street. As a salesperson, if the sale is too hard to make, or takes more time than you're willing to give, I'd think you'd pass on a person such as you describe.
I'm sure your customer was a very nice lady. You chose to work with her and it turned out well. She bought a car. You made a sale.
If you don't like dealing with the way the sale went, I suppose you could have tuned her over to one of your colleagues who may have not minded as much dealing with her.
the story was meant to be entertaining not complaining...
After watching us...none of my colleagues wanted to...lol.
I do pass on people on occasion. For instance...two days ago someone was test driving a vehicle with me on the highway and decided to take the vehicle up to 120 miles an hour. I told him to stop immedietly... from there I drove the vehicle back to the dealership and sent him home.
I will always pass on a customer who thinks I need to sell them a car...no matter how badly I actually need it. For me...the customer's attitude is everything. If you treat me how you would want to be treated if you were in my position...I treat you with the same respect...which is why I refused to pass on this lady...all she was is crazy :P
From my recent experience, it is really necessary to get to two or three alternatives before heading off to a dealership to start the looking process. Otherwise, you waste a lot of hours looking at various models that you are marginally interested in.
Use car shows, driving events, and car rentals as opportunities to identify cars that you are interested in. Then make a choice of three to decide from. It makes it a lot quicker.
I have yet to see ANY deal of a Lexus. Of course, the minute I get a good price for a 2007 for my driver, the salesman calls him and tells him that the 2008s are on there way :mad:
Yep, two or three, max. And it can be another dealer of the same brand, if they aren't owned by the same people. Just that there has to be a real ablility to get up and move on, if necessary.
Having something of a bad back, I must be able to sit in the car comfortably. That is mainly what I am looking at as a do or die. Research-wise, I am down to three cars. The Acura RL, which I can get at a great price, but whose fuel economy bothers me. The M35 which seems to be just as bad on fuel economy, loud and a bit rough around the edges, and the 5 series, which is the most expensive and has the least power. The fuel economy bothers me more environmentally than cash numbers, because I know that overall, it doesn't really amount to all that much per year.
I have driven the RL, and it fits well and I like the way it drives. So the RL is still in. After I come back from my upcoming cruise, I will test out the BMW 5 and the M35. Most of the choice will then be on a cost/benefit basis. It may be that the RL can be had for 5,000 less than the BMW or the M35, and I will have to see if that is so, and if either the BMW or the M35 seem to be worth the extra bucks.
So, of my 3 real choices, I expect to whittle it down to two, then get the best deal I can, which means, is the more expensive car worth the amount of more money I have to pay.
Thanks to everyone for their insight, and I plan to do my shopping mid-week, in the early afternoon.
Not disagreeing about the need to have other alternatives as far as shopping is concerned. I think that's a good thing. But, if you're interested in two or thre difference manufacturers, all with 2 or 3 different models you're interested in, you're going to be spinning your wheels for a long time.
I also agree that to narrow down what you want can be done by "window shopping" when the dealership is closed and using the car shows to do some research.
Once you narrow it down, for example, an Accord, then you can get down to the nitty gritty of negotiations. If you're looking at an Accord, a Subaru Outback, a Chevy Impala, A Ford 500, a Camry, youre' going to make yourself nuts trying to decide, not only the price you want to pay, but also the car you really want. That is, if you tell your salesperson you're also looking at all the other alternatives. They aren't likly to get to the best price if you're still trying to decide what car it is you really want.
I don't either!!! Because...not only is the dealership reputation at stake...but...imagine a customer taking you and an S2000 out at 100 miles an hour down a highway and someone cutting you off... Even the best case scenario and the most skilled driver could prove fatal!
Just got the best e-lead ever - A fellow from 2000 miles away just inquired if we had a headlight for a 2006-2007 RR Sport in stock. I said we did, but unfortunately they were all attached to vehicles. Perfect e-lead for a slow day.
On demo drives, I tend to keep people on a pretty tight leash. I won't put up with people who do dumb or dangerous things.
I wouldn't either.
When I was test driving before I bought this past June, I was driving down an interstate at about 60MPH and I said to the salesman I was going to step on it to see how the V6 responded. It responded very well, before I knew it I was going about 85 MPH. Since I don't usually drive this fast, I started braking and the salesman said, "Oh, it can do a lot better than that, I've had these things well over 100 MPH a couple of times along this stretch and so did the last guy who test drove with me yesterday". I said, "This is plenty good enough for me".
I'm sure glad he wasn't driving so he could have tried to impress me with the cars capability.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I almost felt sorry for the salesguy that went with me when I test drove my Cobra. I was sold before I left 2nd gear.
I didn't do anything too crazy, but I've learned that anything is twice as scary when you're sitting on the side with no steering wheel or brakes.
When I bought my Civic, I'd never driven a 5 speed before. I actually had the salesperson drive it for about 10 minutes to see how it rode, what the road/wind noise was like, etc. Then I took it out for about 5 minutes of fairly jerky driving. I walked out with the car that day. I'm sure she padded the price a bit to compensate for her seasickness.
When I go in to buy a car, I've picked out exactly what I want (model, trim, color, etc). I do my research and buy from the first dealer as long as I'm getting somewhere close to what I think I should be paying. I'm not going to spend days to knock a few bucks off of my monthly payment.
Usually, I end up going to between 2 and 5 dealers to find a good salesperson that's willing to work with me. Maybe it's the way I look, but I tend to get ignored or given the brush off. Then I drive over to the next dealer that offers the car I'm looking for.
I'm thinking all my (and my wifes) purchases from now on will be at the local dealership here in Galveston (sells 8+ different makes on 3 lots). Their service people are amazing and I've been impressed when chatting with their sales guys while getting my car worked on that I'll always give them the first crack, and have actually ruled out cars because I'd have to take them to another dealer to be serviced.
Rlatham, I have enjoyed your stories and your humility!! :P I also appreciate your sense of customer service.... I truly thought this forum thread was for both sides customer and sales rep as I jumped into the middle to ask about something (which I won't even mention the dirty word)... "stories from the frontlines" to my mind means both sides as both have some stories to share... I truly did not mean to come and intrude upon the designated area for saleman to swap stories etc.. It is a bit misleading I must say...Anyhow, I appreciate the help and I'm enjoying the stories so thanks for sharing .. a nonsales peep...
Maybe, maybe not. and I seriously doubt that these people would have come out and said that I refeered them and/or that the salesman would remember me.
Why? Because they think like you do.
No they don't think like me because if they did they wouldn't have a 5 car month.
I can only assume that you "excelled" at a minimum rate.
Remember what they say about assuming something. But if you must know you assume wrong.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My Mits eclipse is the first car I bought through a dealer (and still is the only so far until the fit gets here!) Well, I did a really dumb thing. I was young, timid and uninformed about the whole process. The sales rep brought me out to the car then walked away without saying a word. A few min later he came back with the key, it was the wrong key and he did the same thing, off without a word. He was the silent type and fairly young, as was I. Anyway, when he finally found the right key he handed it to me, took my license and walked away, not saying a word. So I assumed I was ready to test drive the car since he opened the door and let me in. Off I went.. doo doo dahh... then I started thinking, "uh Oh, I dont remember seeing plates on the car! If I get pulled over, I dont have my license" (yes several minutes and 3 miles too late). But I blew it off thinking, "oh well there must be paperwork in the car and Im sure this happens all the time, he would have said something to me or told me to follow him or something. I must be covered by the dealership." So when I got back the sales rep was waiting. He was not so happy but we had a laugh and then I got slammed in F&I. Needless to say, Im sure Im a story for someone, "oh yeah, this chick walked in and drove off with the car!" And yes, I deserved to get slammed since I was uninformed and naive. :sick: :P
.... I truly thought this forum thread was for both sides customer and sales rep as I jumped into the middle to ask about something ...
...It is a bit misleading I must say...
I agree but if you read the very first post it said:
"Since we've got a number of discussions in which consumers can share their shopping stories, this topic is specifically for salespeople to share their stories, good and bad".
Hey, don't feel bad I wonder how many posters read this before jumping in. I know I didn't. :surprise: It appears that rule was broken long ago.
Good thing, this would have been a very boring forum having to listen to only the sales guys tell their tales.
I never liked history anyhoo. How many people ever start at the beginning of anything? ('snake', don't you dare say a word)
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hey, now I think that qualifies as an entertaining story from the sales frontlines... er, doesn't it?
I wish I could have seen that salesman's face when he discovered you took off without him! Because he had both the license plate and your driver's license, I'm assuming you didn't perform any high-speed maneuvers during your test drive, eh? :P
I personally don't think you deserved to get slammed, though. If you were young and naive, seems that your sales rep could have tried out some communication skills with you!
Off-topic, but responding to previous post: Which 5 series are you considering? I'm guessing the 530i? If so, you may discover that inline-6 engine provides better acceleration than the hp number indicates.
I'm also a fan of Acura, but if you enjoy driving, I suspect you'll notice some of the benefits of the BMW and M35 over the RL.
When doing cost/benefit analysis, remember BMW provides free maintenance for the first 4 yrs or 50K miles. You'll definitely save some money during that period of ownership. After that, the BMW will probably be a little more expensive to maintain than either of the other two models.
Ok, you gotta be honest with yourself on this one, Snake. Even for you this retort was weak.
If people are referred, then they tell you who sent them. Why? Because if a random stranger comes up and asks for me, I always ask them where they came from and who sent them. That's pretty simply solved. So I do know if snakeweasel sent someone to me. Always. There isn't any grey area there.
As far as my assumptions, I'm only going off what you give me over this wonderful thing called the internet. If it's all a lie or act, then let me know.
One thing I do know though, a combative or "know it all" type of attitude just doesn't sell a bunch of cars. Someone who can adapt to the people they are speaking with can sell more cars.
C'mon Snake, you can do better than this. Form a decent argument for me and then we can talk. Surely you took a class or two in debate.
By the way, you mentioned that the two Lexus dealers in Cincinnati are related and don't vary on price.
To be honest, I doubt that the situation is much different here in Chicago. On several occasions, we have been looking for a Lexus model, sought bids, all of which came in within $200.
Drove an Rx330 with a Nav system today, That was pretty cool but also quite distracting. Fortunately, the new ones call out the turns.
We have a similar situation with Lexus dealers here in Phoenix. I think there are only two owners for the 3-4 Lexus dealers.
In the summer of 2003, I requested bids for an RX330. Locals dealers came in within $300 of each other. Southern Cal dealers came in much lower. I saved at least $1500 (based on the best bids I received locally) by buying from a dealer in Ontario, CA. They even picked us up from our hotel an hour away and drove us to the dealership. Before I made the trip, I contacted the local dealer to see if they would come within $500 of the California bid. Yes, that's correct -- I was willing to pay $500 more to the local guys. I even forwarded them the other bid (email). Unfortunately, they couldn't do it.
Switch forward to December 2006. My co-worker tries the same thing on an IS250 purchase. I believe he ended up buying from Riverside, at least $1000 lower than local Lexus dealers were willing to go for him.
Sure, we have to go thru the local DMV office to get the tags, but I think that hassle is countered by the $200+ we also saved on Doc Fees.
Personally, if I am a Lexus dealer and I am selling my full allotment of vehicles, why do I want to discount any vehicles?
Honestly, how many people are willing to travel 300 miles to save $1000, especially when you might find that the price in California may not be "real"?
Do realize that for a lot of Lexus buyers, price is probably less of a concern than service on the vehicle (and the hassles related to it). The Lexus driver in my fleet always makes me get several quotes ... and then always chooses the dealership closest to his house.
I have this fascination with car sales. There aren't too many $50,000 items out there that only bring in hundreds of dollars. I'll tell you even clothes are marked up around 100%, and that's when you buy larger quantities. I think it became "How cheap can I get it?" instead of "What is it worth to me?" And since I am going... A lot of other places make a lot more money on you than car dealerships. Starbucks anyone?
I will pick up my new 2007 Honda CR-V EX-L AWD tomorrow. This is the first time that I bought a car sight unseen. I was not able to get the color with the options that I wanted at the two local Honda dealers in my area.
So, I started calling around the three state area (called at least 10 dealers) and found one 350 miles from my home that had the exact CR-V that I wanted coming in on the boat from Japan.
I wired the money Monday and the dealer "DHL'd" the paperwork to me so that I could get tags and pay the taxes in my state. The odometer statement said that my new baby has 5 miles on it!
I've never owned a Honda before.
Several posts back about the salesguy that couldn't tell if the Accord had a full tank of gas or not was not surprising to me. When I drove the CR-V (if the Accord is like the CR-V), I had to look really close to figure out the gas level. ALL of my other cars have the needle type gas gauge.
My sister-in-law recently bought a new CR-V too. I drove it to lunch the other day and tried to figure out the gauges as they are electronic. The little lines are small and white which will take some getting used to. Maybe from the back seat or passenger seat, it was difficult for the salesman to see.
My question to the sales guys is.... have you had a customer that bought a car sight unseen and things went terribly wrong on delivery? :surprise:
(I hate to bring this up) But, I asked the dealer to make me an extra key. Since I am paying full pop for this car (also added fog lights and splash guards), I thought it wouldn't be too much to ask the dealer to throw in an extra key that was 'Not chipped.' I am going to use the car as a "Dingy" vehicle behind my new Motorhome (picking up in 1.5 weeks) and need a key that will not start the car but will release the ignition. The dealer said "no problem, we will make you a key". You think they might be out $3 ??? :confuse:
Mark156 PS. I go away for 12 days and there are almost 700 posts to read...wow!
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
How can something in a thread with no real topic have something off topic.
As far as referrals I have gotten from people who have shopped me and bought else where. Here is a list of them from the last 15 years
............
OK that was easy
Next
How old is a 2003 Model?
I guess it depends, it is 5 "model" years old, and 4 "calender" years old.
2003 to 2004 to 2005 to 2006 to 2007 to 2008
Next
Websales Guy If I were you I would base it number of appointments generated for the dealership, and closing ratio I.E how many you get through the door, and how many buy when they get there. Then a flat percentage of all income generated through web sales, front, back, aftermarket, the whole thing. i would even set up a Service Contract link on your site and field questions for those. F&I guys love walk in Service Contracts, it helps the penetration #'s. The key to being succesfull is being on there good side. I would also have a link on your site for people to apply for credit, they fill it out and the app comes straight to you, you. You get the app, you do some quick qualifying, set an appt and then T.O it to the F&I. The success of this will depend on how strong your special finance department is, because 90% of those apps will have problems. But it will also come in handy when you are working a deal over the internet and you need to get a customer submitted, they can shoot an app straigh to you. IMO you are setting yourself up for some hard times if you try to implement the $100 BD form the sales people. There will end up being hard feelings.
I'm also a car sales nut ('er fan). I agree that the markup is low compared to many other products. I'm in the propane buiness. (I don;t know Hank Hill.) We're lucky to make $0.02/gallon operating cash flow and that's home delivery. Gas stations can make $0.07/gallon and more and that's serve yourself while you burn more gas going to get it...
Anyway, there's a good article about pricing in Money magazine (April 2007). I found it very interesting. It begins with, "Seven elementary lessons in why things cost what they do - and how to use that knowledge to get a better deal."
As far as referrals I have gotten from people who have shopped me and bought else where. Here is a list of them from the last 15 years
............
I rest my case. Certain people who post on this forum and live in fantasy land need to visit a place called the real world. It may crush their ideas of how things operate though.
With regards to Lexus, they're nice cars, that are sold in nice showrooms. But, my experience with trying to buy one has been less than exemplary. This was a while ago, but when the IS 350 came out, I test drove one and liked it. The two Lexus dealers in Cincinnati are owned by the same person (someone I know). Their sales people weren't the most helpful....especially when I started talking about discounts. One of the Lexus salespeople actually left me strranded after a test drive and I started talking about discounts. He left me at his desk and never returned. I finally just left. At the very least, he could have said "we don't discount, but thanks for coming in". He didn't even do that. There wasn't another customer in the dealership at the time, either.
I got the feeling that they wanted "laydowns" (buying at MSRP with no negotiations) to buy their cars. Not a bad "gig" if it works for you.
Luckily, I went to my local BMW stores and found a 3 series I liked better than the IS. And, they were willing to deal. I bought the BMW and have been very pleased with both the car and the dealership experience.
Another car I liked was the Acura RL. At the time I was looking, it was priced at the very high end of the range I was willing to spend (a hair under $50K). Don't know why, but they never seemed to catch on with the public. So, now they're priced right near $40K with incentives and discounts. If they were available at that price when I was looking, my decision might have been different.
I looked at the M35, too. Nice cars, but equipping one the way I wanted took me back to that $50K range.
The 530i is nice, too. But, I really liked the way the 3 Series drove....even more than the 5 series.
Long and short of it, if the Lexus dealer was more amenable on price, I'd probably be driving a Lexus, and never would have made it to the BMW dealership. It's nice having Starbucks and widescreen TVs in your showroom. But, the bottom line, I don't live in the dealership. Those amenities (which I'm sure is paid for by the hefty margins they make) don't do a thing for me when I drive off the dealer's lot.
It's always puzzled me why Honda does (your dealership may well be different). Honda's are not exactly distressed merchandise and Honda themselves have a good handle on production with flexible assembly lines etc. and yet they still over produce to some extent causing their dealers margins to slip, the Odyssey is probably the prime example in recent years. I suppose it boils down to the fact that Honda, the manufacturer, makes more money on volume and if that means feeding their dealers to the wolves then so be it.
GG, I never saw the value in the RL. For an excellent vehicle, I really thought the TL delivered. For the money, I think it gives you a much better value. Plus, their resale is very good as well.
In regards to the Lexus brand, their are 4(?) dealers here in Atlanta. 3 of them are on the northside and 1 on the southside. If you want a discount, you have to go to the southside. The northside dealers keep a hold on their pricing pretty well. I'd love to work there, but there seems to be a waiting list to get in on the sales there.
I suppose it boils down to the fact that Honda, the manufacturer, makes more money on volume and if that means feeding their dealers to the wolves then so be it.
This definitely depends on what vehicle you're talking about on the Honda lot. The CR-V, Civics, and Fits all seemed to be fighting to keep up with demand for a long time. The new Odysseys did as well in the beginning.
Then supply catches up with demand and they just keep producing. Every manufacturer seems to "feed their dealers to the wolves" at one point or another. Some are worse than others of course.
Personally, if I am a Lexus dealer and I am selling my full allotment of vehicles, why do I want to discount any vehicles?
True. Good point.
Honestly, how many people are willing to travel 300 miles to save $1000...
Actually, after posting my info, I went back to check my numbers. My savings was more in the vicinity of $2200. Subtract maybe $300-$400 for gasoline, hotel, and one-way car rental, and the net is still well above $1500. In reality, we made a little mini-vacation out of the deal, enjoying our stay in CA.
It must be hard for Honda to predict demand. I don't think it's so much feeding us to the wolves as it is trying to measure future demand from an ever changing marketplace.
Comments
I always hand out my business card to everyone I talk to. And yes, I had people come seek me out after some time, on the rare occasion.
Most of the "buyers" however come looking for me within a couple of weeks though.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Oh My That's like unplugging a few injectors on a Vette because it's too fast. That "Mach 1000" 3 amp unit you have from the 04 is better than the Shaker 1000. Not to mention rare.
My wife said I'm a "shell of a man " without my Camaro. Moping around all day waiting for it to come home all fixed.
I'll wait for the Camaro and drive the wussie Solara till it trades or just goes away.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
the technology...not the actual vehicles :-p
I do my research. Pick the car/model I want. And then, negotiated on that particular brand/model.
I don't pay more for making up my mind early in the process. I just eliminate the alternatives. It saves me time and headaches. If the dealer is willing to deal with my offer on my choice, good for both of us. If not, the next dealer of my chosen brand/model is right down the road.
Admittedly, it's a little tougher on some brands, than others. For example, there are only two Lexus dealers in my 'burg. They're both owned by the same person. I've tried to deal fairly with both stores, but could never come to a deal because they've locked down hefty margins that are adhered to by both stores. That's probably why I've never bought from either of them.
As a side note, if I really wanted a Lexus, I wouldn't have any issues with going to the next town to get one (or the town after that).
Mercedes doesn't interest me because of a variety of reasons.
All that said, all the Audi, Porsche, BMW delaerships around me have different owners. They are higly competitive with each other. That nets good deals.
Throwing too many model/brand variables into the mix does little more than frustrates the buyer and the seller. No need to make it difficult. Decide how much you're willing to pay. Go the the store(s) that carry your model. Make your offer. They either accept it. Or, you move on. Telling the dealer you're also looking at "Y", when you really want "X" doesn't help.
I'm sure your customer was a very nice lady. You chose to work with her and it turned out well. She bought a car. You made a sale.
If you don't like dealing with the way the sale went, I suppose you could have tuned her over to one of your colleagues who may have not minded as much dealing with her.
After watching us...none of my colleagues wanted to...lol.
I do pass on people on occasion. For instance...two days ago someone was test driving a vehicle with me on the highway and decided to take the vehicle up to 120 miles an hour. I told him to stop immedietly... from there I drove the vehicle back to the dealership and sent him home.
I will always pass on a customer who thinks I need to sell them a car...no matter how badly I actually need it. For me...the customer's attitude is everything. If you treat me how you would want to be treated if you were in my position...I treat you with the same respect...which is why I refused to pass on this lady...all she was is crazy :P
Use car shows, driving events, and car rentals as opportunities to identify cars that you are interested in. Then make a choice of three to decide from. It makes it a lot quicker.
I have yet to see ANY deal of a Lexus. Of course, the minute I get a good price for a 2007 for my driver, the salesman calls him and tells him that the 2008s are on there way :mad:
That's probably your best weapon when buying.
I've done it and it doesn't hurt one bit. As long as it has tires and shiny paint, I don't have a problem doing that at all.
Like I've said countless times here; this car buying thing ain't hard at all.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
On demo drives, I tend to keep people on a pretty tight leash. I won't put up with people who do dumb or dangerous things.
I have driven the RL, and it fits well and I like the way it drives. So the RL is still in. After I come back from my upcoming cruise, I will test out the BMW 5 and the M35. Most of the choice will then be on a cost/benefit basis. It may be that the RL can be had for 5,000 less than the BMW or the M35, and I will have to see if that is so, and if either the BMW or the M35 seem to be worth the extra bucks.
So, of my 3 real choices, I expect to whittle it down to two, then get the best deal I can, which means, is the more expensive car worth the amount of more money I have to pay.
Thanks to everyone for their insight, and I plan to do my shopping mid-week, in the early afternoon.
I also agree that to narrow down what you want can be done by "window shopping" when the dealership is closed and using the car shows to do some research.
Once you narrow it down, for example, an Accord, then you can get down to the nitty gritty of negotiations. If you're looking at an Accord, a Subaru Outback, a Chevy Impala, A Ford 500, a Camry, youre' going to make yourself nuts trying to decide, not only the price you want to pay, but also the car you really want. That is, if you tell your salesperson you're also looking at all the other alternatives. They aren't likly to get to the best price if you're still trying to decide what car it is you really want.
I once made a guy pull a Prelude over. I tried to take off and leave him standing there but he knew what I was going to do and got in quickly.
I don't need that!
I wouldn't either.
When I was test driving before I bought this past June, I was driving down an interstate at about 60MPH and I said to the salesman I was going to step on it to see how the V6 responded. It responded very well, before I knew it I was going about 85 MPH. Since I don't usually drive this fast, I started braking and the salesman said, "Oh, it can do a lot better than that, I've had these things well over 100 MPH a couple of times along this stretch and so did the last guy who test drove with me yesterday". I said, "This is plenty good enough for me".
I'm sure glad he wasn't driving so he could have tried to impress me with the cars capability.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I didn't do anything too crazy, but I've learned that anything is twice as scary when you're sitting on the side with no steering wheel or brakes.
When I bought my Civic, I'd never driven a 5 speed before. I actually had the salesperson drive it for about 10 minutes to see how it rode, what the road/wind noise was like, etc. Then I took it out for about 5 minutes of fairly jerky driving. I walked out with the car that day. I'm sure she padded the price a bit to compensate for her seasickness.
When I go in to buy a car, I've picked out exactly what I want (model, trim, color, etc). I do my research and buy from the first dealer as long as I'm getting somewhere close to what I think I should be paying. I'm not going to spend days to knock a few bucks off of my monthly payment.
Usually, I end up going to between 2 and 5 dealers to find a good salesperson that's willing to work with me. Maybe it's the way I look, but I tend to get ignored or given the brush off. Then I drive over to the next dealer that offers the car I'm looking for.
I'm thinking all my (and my wifes) purchases from now on will be at the local dealership here in Galveston (sells 8+ different makes on 3 lots). Their service people are amazing and I've been impressed when chatting with their sales guys while getting my car worked on that I'll always give them the first crack, and have actually ruled out cars because I'd have to take them to another dealer to be serviced.
Last year two young guys took out a used S2000 and blew the motor in it. :sick:
And last year a saleman at a local GM dealer was paralyzed on a test drive with some young guys in a Caddy CTS-V after they hit a wall. :sick:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Maybe, maybe not. and I seriously doubt that these people would have come out and said that I refeered them and/or that the salesman would remember me.
Why? Because they think like you do.
No they don't think like me because if they did they wouldn't have a 5 car month.
I can only assume that you "excelled" at a minimum rate.
Remember what they say about assuming something. But if you must know you assume wrong.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We can all learn something here.
...It is a bit misleading I must say...
I agree but if you read the very first post it said:
"Since we've got a number of discussions in which consumers can share their shopping stories, this topic is specifically for salespeople to share their stories, good and bad".
Hey, don't feel bad I wonder how many posters read this before jumping in. I know I didn't. :surprise: It appears that rule was broken long ago.
Good thing, this would have been a very boring forum having to listen to only the sales guys tell their tales.
I never liked history anyhoo. How many people ever start at the beginning of anything?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A word.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wish I could have seen that salesman's face when he discovered you took off without him! Because he had both the license plate and your driver's license, I'm assuming you didn't perform any high-speed maneuvers during your test drive, eh? :P
I personally don't think you deserved to get slammed, though. If you were young and naive, seems that your sales rep could have tried out some communication skills with you!
Which 5 series are you considering? I'm guessing the 530i? If so, you may discover that inline-6 engine provides better acceleration than the hp number indicates.
I'm also a fan of Acura, but if you enjoy driving, I suspect you'll notice some of the benefits of the BMW and M35 over the RL.
When doing cost/benefit analysis, remember BMW provides free maintenance for the first 4 yrs or 50K miles. You'll definitely save some money during that period of ownership. After that, the BMW will probably be a little more expensive to maintain than either of the other two models.
If people are referred, then they tell you who sent them. Why? Because if a random stranger comes up and asks for me, I always ask them where they came from and who sent them. That's pretty simply solved. So I do know if snakeweasel sent someone to me. Always. There isn't any grey area there.
As far as my assumptions, I'm only going off what you give me over this wonderful thing called the internet. If it's all a lie or act, then let me know.
One thing I do know though, a combative or "know it all" type of attitude just doesn't sell a bunch of cars. Someone who can adapt to the people they are speaking with can sell more cars.
C'mon Snake, you can do better than this. Form a decent argument for me and then we can talk. Surely you took a class or two in debate.
-Moo
To be honest, I doubt that the situation is much different here in Chicago. On several occasions, we have been looking for a Lexus model, sought bids, all of which came in within $200.
Drove an Rx330 with a Nav system today, That was pretty cool but also quite distracting. Fortunately, the new ones call out the turns.
In the summer of 2003, I requested bids for an RX330. Locals dealers came in within $300 of each other. Southern Cal dealers came in much lower. I saved at least $1500 (based on the best bids I received locally) by buying from a dealer in Ontario, CA. They even picked us up from our hotel an hour away and drove us to the dealership. Before I made the trip, I contacted the local dealer to see if they would come within $500 of the California bid. Yes, that's correct -- I was willing to pay $500 more to the local guys. I even forwarded them the other bid (email). Unfortunately, they couldn't do it.
Switch forward to December 2006. My co-worker tries the same thing on an IS250 purchase. I believe he ended up buying from Riverside, at least $1000 lower than local Lexus dealers were willing to go for him.
Sure, we have to go thru the local DMV office to get the tags, but I think that hassle is countered by the $200+ we also saved on Doc Fees.
Honestly, how many people are willing to travel 300 miles to save $1000, especially when you might find that the price in California may not be "real"?
Do realize that for a lot of Lexus buyers, price is probably less of a concern than service on the vehicle (and the hassles related to it). The Lexus driver in my fleet always makes me get several quotes ... and then always chooses the dealership closest to his house.
I'll go along with that.
BTW, since it's that time of day, I'm going to Dunkin Donut, their coffee is better and it doesn't cost as much.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So, I started calling around the three state area (called at least 10 dealers) and found one 350 miles from my home that had the exact CR-V that I wanted coming in on the boat from Japan.
I wired the money Monday and the dealer "DHL'd" the paperwork to me so that I could get tags and pay the taxes in my state. The odometer statement said that my new baby has 5 miles on it!
I've never owned a Honda before.
Several posts back about the salesguy that couldn't tell if the Accord had a full tank of gas or not was not surprising to me. When I drove the CR-V (if the Accord is like the CR-V), I had to look really close to figure out the gas level. ALL of my other cars have the needle type gas gauge.
My sister-in-law recently bought a new CR-V too. I drove it to lunch the other day and tried to figure out the gauges as they are electronic. The little lines are small and white which will take some getting used to. Maybe from the back seat or passenger seat, it was difficult for the salesman to see.
My question to the sales guys is.... have you had a customer that bought a car sight unseen and things went terribly wrong on delivery? :surprise:
(I hate to bring this up) But, I asked the dealer to make me an extra key. Since I am paying full pop for this car (also added fog lights and splash guards), I thought it wouldn't be too much to ask the dealer to throw in an extra key that was 'Not chipped.' I am going to use the car as a "Dingy" vehicle behind my new Motorhome (picking up in 1.5 weeks) and need a key that will not start the car but will release the ignition. The dealer said "no problem, we will make you a key". You think they might be out $3 ??? :confuse:
Mark156 PS. I go away for 12 days and there are almost 700 posts to read...wow!
How can something in a thread with no real topic have something off topic.
As far as referrals I have gotten from people who have shopped me and bought else where. Here is a list of them from the last 15 years
............
OK that was easy
Next
How old is a 2003 Model?
I guess it depends, it is 5 "model" years old, and 4 "calender" years old.
2003
to
2004
to
2005
to
2006
to
2007
to
2008
Next
Websales Guy
If I were you I would base it number of appointments generated for the dealership, and closing ratio I.E how many you get through the door, and how many buy when they get there. Then a flat percentage of all income generated through web sales, front, back, aftermarket, the whole thing. i would even set up a Service Contract link on your site and field questions for those. F&I guys love walk in Service Contracts, it helps the penetration #'s. The key to being succesfull is being on there good side. I would also have a link on your site for people to apply for credit, they fill it out and the app comes straight to you, you. You get the app, you do some quick qualifying, set an appt and then T.O it to the F&I. The success of this will depend on how strong your special finance department is, because 90% of those apps will have problems. But it will also come in handy when you are working a deal over the internet and you need to get a customer submitted, they can shoot an app straigh to you. IMO you are setting yourself up for some hard times if you try to implement the $100 BD form the sales people. There will end up being hard feelings.
Anyway, there's a good article about pricing in Money magazine (April 2007). I found it very interesting. It begins with, "Seven elementary lessons in why things cost what they do - and how to use that knowledge to get a better deal."
............
I rest my case. Certain people who post on this forum and live in fantasy land need to visit a place called the real world. It may crush their ideas of how things operate though.
-Moo
They simply roll that into the price of the car.
Sounds good though!
I got the feeling that they wanted "laydowns" (buying at MSRP with no negotiations) to buy their cars. Not a bad "gig" if it works for you.
Luckily, I went to my local BMW stores and found a 3 series I liked better than the IS. And, they were willing to deal. I bought the BMW and have been very pleased with both the car and the dealership experience.
Another car I liked was the Acura RL. At the time I was looking, it was priced at the very high end of the range I was willing to spend (a hair under $50K). Don't know why, but they never seemed to catch on with the public. So, now they're priced right near $40K with incentives and discounts. If they were available at that price when I was looking, my decision might have been different.
I looked at the M35, too. Nice cars, but equipping one the way I wanted took me back to that $50K range.
The 530i is nice, too. But, I really liked the way the 3 Series drove....even more than the 5 series.
Long and short of it, if the Lexus dealer was more amenable on price, I'd probably be driving a Lexus, and never would have made it to the BMW dealership. It's nice having Starbucks and widescreen TVs in your showroom. But, the bottom line, I don't live in the dealership. Those amenities (which I'm sure is paid for by the hefty margins they make) don't do a thing for me when I drive off the dealer's lot.
Good for them!
GG, I never saw the value in the RL. For an excellent vehicle, I really thought the TL delivered. For the money, I think it gives you a much better value. Plus, their resale is very good as well.
In regards to the Lexus brand, their are 4(?) dealers here in Atlanta. 3 of them are on the northside and 1 on the southside. If you want a discount, you have to go to the southside. The northside dealers keep a hold on their pricing pretty well. I'd love to work there, but there seems to be a waiting list to get in on the sales there.
-Moo
This definitely depends on what vehicle you're talking about on the Honda lot. The CR-V, Civics, and Fits all seemed to be fighting to keep up with demand for a long time. The new Odysseys did as well in the beginning.
Then supply catches up with demand and they just keep producing. Every manufacturer seems to "feed their dealers to the wolves" at one point or another. Some are worse than others of course.
-Moo
True. Good point.
Honestly, how many people are willing to travel 300 miles to save $1000...
Actually, after posting my info, I went back to check my numbers. My savings was more in the vicinity of $2200. Subtract maybe $300-$400 for gasoline, hotel, and one-way car rental, and the net is still well above $1500. In reality, we made a little mini-vacation out of the deal, enjoying our stay in CA.
Personally, I think it's too bad a dealer in California wants to busically spoil a good market.
But as a "consumer", I'm not complaining! :P
I am from So. Calif and that is a HORRIBLE, RUINED marketplace. I couldn't work there!