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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Everyone knows it's not the salespeople who make the BIG money...it's the owner of the dealership. My neighbor who is in her mid 90's... her husband owned the largest Lincoln/Mercury dealership in the area for decades. After her husband died, she sold the dealership and all I know is.... she still gets new cars every few years even though the she sold over 30 yrs ago. And she is one of the wealthiest people in my neighborhood. (we just know these things) THE OWNERS MAKE THE MONEY!

    Mark :)
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Why would you want to offer the amount you are willing to pay? I would first offer what I would want to pay, which would be quite a bit less than the 'willing' to pay amount."

    If you are willing to pay $20K, you could try offering $19K. However, the sales person would try very hard to bump you up and would be very persistent and, after a good deal of sufferring, you would increase your offer to $20K.

    On the other hand, you could cut out the sufferring and just offer $20K and be done with it.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "Why would you want to offer the amount you are willing to pay? I would first offer what I would want to pay, which would be quite a bit less than the 'willing' to pay amount."

    If you are willing to pay $20K, you could try offering $19K. However, the sales person would try very hard to bump you up and would be very persistent and, after a good deal of sufferring, you would increase your offer to $20K.

    On the other hand, you could cut out the sufferring and just offer $20K and be done with it.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    People like snake castigate you for not having your customers best interests at heart.

    Nope I don't. I do however do that when people say something like that then say that its not their fault if the customer pays to much.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I know what a typical car dealership makes and I know what other types of companies makes.

    you would rather have the Starbucks franchise.

    Nope I would take owning a dealership over owning something that doesn't exist.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    What exactly is a "lease purchase"?

    Well in accounting there is whats called a capital lease where all the risks of ownership transfers over to the lessee, but most car leases have those elements so I don't think thats it.

    I know GM has a "smart lease" that. IIRC, is a lease with a balloon payment. that could be it.

    Or it could just be a basic lease and the wrong terminology was used.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Wouldn't you rather have a frosty cold one when you test out that luxury SUV ?

    You could combine it with a police station so they can book the DWI there and then.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    He owes money on his trade and he doesn't want to go 72 months.

    He owes $5,800.

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Hey Isell, it's actually pretty simple. The folks are purchasing their leased vehicle. That's all.

    -Moo
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Wouldn't you rather have a frosty cold one when you test out that luxury SUV ?

    You could combine it with a police station so they can book the DWI there and then.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    8:00pm I'm standing up front waiting on an up. My manager runs up to me and starts freaking out because someone is on the lot not being helped. I respond in kind. Irritated because all I need to hear is that someone needs help and I'll go help 'em. I didn't see the bastards.

    I go check on them. Mother and son. Son is a real pain in the [non-permissible content removed]. Smart alec comments about everything. Acts like he knows how to negotiate. Mom is interested in Altima and Maxima. Wants to test drive both. I ask a couple of qualifying questions. She says she wants to finance, trade-in her Pontiac Breeze ( lol) and she's only shopping against the S2000. (rofl)

    This woman is in her 50's, she's balding, her dye job is showing and her son's a fat buffoon who thinks he can negotiate. Wow. Hooray for my last up.

    So we start with an SL Altima. Keep in mind, this is my bell to bell, I've already sold 2 today and had a couple of mangled ups. Also, the pollen is destroying me. I'm weak at the knees with the amount of pollen I've swallowed.

    We start to take our test drive and I'm directing them on city streets. Son proclaims that he wants to go on the highway and Mom demands to drive the vehicle up a hill. Great. So I tell her to turn around and she is able to manipulate an 8 point turn with expert precision. Off to a great start.

    Get on the highway and we almost get killed by 2 cop cars that come within inches of our vehicle as they pull someone over. We shrug that off and then start to come back to the dealership on the highway. We run out of gas.

    So we sit there. And wait for someone to pick us up. And sit there. And the son says he thinks this should be worth a discount. I agree. Finally help arrives and we get back to the dealership. Mom actually handled it pretty well. Son handled it by asking me inane questions about the vehicle he isn't purchasing.

    When we get back inside the dealership, I tell the rest of the guys to shutup about it because they are hooting and hollering at me. I ask the customer if they still want to drive the Maxima. No. Would you like to take an Altima home tonight? Yes, but the price has to be right. Great, follow me.

    We sit down in my office and I get the trade put together and find that we have the exact vehicle they are looking for. Drive-out with trade is $26,430. I ask for their signature. They offer me $19,000 drive-out. I ask them if this is some kind of joke. They say no. I respond, we need to be on a Sentra. Mom says, I don't like that. I think to myself that I've done something horrible in the past because karma has come back to get me. I usher them out quietly and thank them for wasting my time.

    My manager is still laughing at me for the gas debacle as he watches them leave.

    I drive home and pull into my driveway. I get out and promptly slam my fingers in the door. I was going to take the trash up to the curb.

    I have done something wrong recently. I'm just trying to figure out what it was. I don't want to repeat it.

    -Moo
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    On the other hand, you could cut out the sufferring and just offer $20K and be done with it.

    Or you can go in expecting to spend $15.1k and let the guy sell it to you for $13.9 as I did.

    You must be shopping at Honda dealerships. :D
  • websalesguywebsalesguy Member Posts: 13
    Joe,

    Thanks for the aeraging metric. As for getting BD's from sales, I have had the same guys see me talking to someone and come up to us and say "hey Joe, remember me, I sold your son a car 50 years ago," and say to me, Bill, mind if i work with Mr Jones...

    I have no problem getting 100 from these guys. They're (the customers)are in the showroom because I invited them in.

    p.s. the guy this month that made 17k by in comm selling SUV's and a used cars can afford it. :-)
  • websalesguywebsalesguy Member Posts: 13
    Joe,

    Thanks for the aeraging metric. As for getting BD's from sales, I have had the same guys see me talking to someone and come up to us and say "hey Joe, remember me, I sold your son a car 50 years ago," and say to me, Bill, mind if i work with Mr Jones...

    I have no problem getting 100 from these guys. They're (the customers)are in the showroom because I invited them in.

    p.s. the guy this month that made 17k by in comm selling SUV's and a used cars can afford it. :-)
  • websalesguywebsalesguy Member Posts: 13
  • websalesguywebsalesguy Member Posts: 13
    LMAO

    And I thought I was having a bad day. I patiently waited for a customer to measure every possible space configuration for which he was to build some kind of camper on the inside of a 3500 diesel van. No money and a 510 score. He said his credit was average, when I was doing the pre close...............
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Moo:

    Sounds like you need to take some time at home tonight to relax and unwind. I recommend a glass of wine along with a nice, light-hearted movie to help you forget the stressful day you experienced today. May I suggest something like "Training Day" or maybe "A Clockwork Orange"?

    When you go to bed, pray that you don't wake up as the new live-action star of "Groundhog Day 2 -- The Sequel"!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,440
    BMW was running 28 month leases on Z4s and 5-series back in December... They were great deals, as they used the 24-month residual..

    Nissan is big on running the "extra 3 month" leases.. again only dropping the residual by 1% from the normal term.. 27 month vs. 24 and 39 month vs. 36...

    Infiniti actually had decent 12-month leases on the FX35/45 last fall.

    I find a lot of dealership personnel have no idea how a lease is calculated... they just punch the numbers in the computer, and see what spits out.. They will swear to you that the 36 month lease is cheaper than the 24 month lease, because that is what it was last month.. never mind that the 24 month residual is 3% higher this month.

    GG.. was that at Performance Honda that you ran into the wonderful sales manager? Seems unusual for that store..

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I don't see why any dealer wouldn't accommodate a lease customer with whatever term the customer needs. E.g. if my company assigns me to an out of state location for 23 months I am sure I could work out a 23 month lease.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Sorry that your day was lousy but glad that you took the time to share it. You write well. Your stuff gives me a sense of what it's like to be in car sales.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't take "ups" anymore but I would have taken one look at those people and gone the other way.

    Brutal schedule you work too. We don't have "bell to bells".
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Brutal schedule you work too. We don't have "bell to bells".

    Dang, wish I could say that. This week I will clock 76 hours. Granted it is my long week because its my Sunday in the box. I only catch every third Sunday.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Our F&I people have a pretty good schedule. We have six of them now.

    Me, I'm a 9-5 guy with Thursdays and Sundays (usually) off.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ‘graph’ has had a hard time the last couple of times out. Oh, he comes here as a nice even tempered guy but when he gets to the showroom he must be a real bear to work with.

    Now, take me (you’d make Mrs. jmonroe very happy) I act tough here but when I go to the showroom and see that nice shiny sheet metal, I’m a total laydown.

    I’m sure if you sales guys would admit it, you’re full of minis.

    A while back we had a couple guys here who had the same strategies about car buying. So much so that some people think they’re the same person. They he would negotiate for a considerable amount of time to get the sales people “invested” in the deal so they wouldn’t want to lose a sale after all that hard work and would succumb to their his price. I’m sure it wasn’t a day at the beach dealing with this guy and I’m beginning to think (because of the extended absence) they he may still be at the table working a salesperson up one side and down the other.

    Some people are probably true to their word and then there are the rest of us. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Everyone knows it's not the salespeople who make the BIG money...it's the owner of the dealership

    And why shouldn't they? They put up the money and took all the risk.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Oh, he comes here as a nice even tempered guy but when he gets to the showroom he must be a real bear to work with.

    He may very well. Forums don't always translate everything perfectly. I kind of doubt it though. (This is way off topic and the hosts will probably ban us all for continuing to talk about members, but....)

    GG seems perfectly reasonable to me. He's just trying to buy a vehicle for himself or a friend the best way he knows how. I really can't imagine that he would treat anyone poorly or condescend to them. Those situations are really the only time that I start to get ugly with someone. I treat you with respect and I expect the same in return.

    He works as a manager of a number of sales guys. I would think he knows how it works. My guess is he just ran into some bad luck with specific people that worked there. Kinda like my day yesterday.

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Ty Jimbres.

    It wasn't all bad, but that beer at the end of the day tasted very good. It washed all the pollen away.

    Your stuff gives me a sense of what it's like to be in car sales.

    I wish that the high parts of selling were more interesting. I'll try to write about some of the good times too. It just hasn't seemed to have been as interesting in the past. There are ups and downs, sometimes very significant swells, and you have to be able to roll with all of 'em.

    Interesting job for sure.

    -Moo
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Our F&I people have a pretty good schedule. We have six of them now.

    Me, I'm a 9-5 guy with Thursdays and Sundays (usually) off.

    6, WOW ,you all must be big time. How many a month do you all average? We have 6 front line managers total. 2 F&I, 2 on the desk, and 2 in used cars, and around 15 or so slales people. Plus a selling truck MGR and a Internet/advertising/what ever the owner wants guy.

    An average month for us is 130, good 150, rocking 185. Those are new and used combined. But when we get to our new location we will be the big dogs in the zone.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    Must defend myself here.....

    bobst....mostly, I do exactly what you do. I've done my research. I'm confident in the numbers. I make my offer. They try to bump. I walk at the bump. Some dealerships want you to sit down and negotiate. When you don't, they're faced with a decision. As you know, they either accept your offer, or you walk. When you get some of these dealerships "off their sales script", they either respond well, or not at all.

    kyfdx....it was Performance. I've found out a little more about the SM at that dealership. He was previously a salesman at the Ford dealership I bought the Mustang at under invoice a few years ago. I didn't know it at the time, but supposedly he was offered the credit for the sale. He certainly didn't do the delivery of the car, so I was unaware (a greenpea, who I'd neve met before actually did the delivery). My understanding, he had the highest average gross at the Ford store. When he was faced with my "no gross" deal, on a hot car, he got a little bent, and didn't/wouldn't take it. Consequently, he took that attitude to his new job as the SM at the Honda store. When I walked in to the Honda store, he had already "sized me up" and wasn't about to take a low gross deal, no matter who I knew. He made that very apparent. That's why he jumped in immediately instead of letting me dance with the salesperson. It's too bad that some let ego get in the way of a sale.

    Lexus is Lexus. The way I view it, if BMW is willing to deal, so should their competition (which Lexus is). Still, there's no cause for rudeness. Heck, maybe the salesguy who left me stranded had a heart attack when I mentioned discount and he couldn't come back. No one told me, though.

    volvo...maybe I do come across as "difficult to work with"...even though I don't think I am. I'm confident, but you never know how others perceive that. There are dealerships that know if I step foot in the door, I'm not there to kick the tires. A few people (as the Honda SM showed me) don't want to deal with me. That's fine, too. I'm not asking them to invite me home for dinner.

    moo...enjoy the GG bashing while you can. You're one post away from someone here teeing off on you..... :P :shades: ;)
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    moo...enjoy the GG bashing while you can. You're one post away from someone here teeing off on you.....

    Lol, I know. I'm surprised the forum has been this gentle with me for so long. Perhaps I'm getting soft. Only Snake has tried to banter with me and as usual he gave up again.

    (Let's see if that will do the trick.)

    -Moo
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We do over 400 cars. This month should hit about 430.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    :surprise:

    our little podunk dealership that i worked at was lucky if we got out 40 cars a month, nevermind 400!!

    -thene
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    We do over 400 cars. This month should hit about 430.

    How many sales people? 40+?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    So what?
    As Audi said, they have the risk. Alot of dealers go broke too.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    I know what a typical car dealership makes and I know what other types of companies makes.

    I don't think you have clue what the typical dealership makes.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,925
    the solution is simple, close the doors.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    We sit down in my office and I get the trade put together and find that we have the exact vehicle they are looking for. Drive-out with trade is $26,430. I ask for their signature. They offer me $19,000 drive-out. I ask them if this is some kind of joke. They say no. I respond, we need to be on a Sentra. Mom says, I don't like that. I think to myself that I've done something horrible in the past because karma has come back to get me. I usher them out quietly and thank them for wasting my time.

    The only bummer with this story is they didn't settle on a $19k Maxima. :surprise: :P

    One thing I've been meaning to ask ya Moo, is if you were to buy a new Nissan sedan TODAY would you go with an Altima or Maxima, and why? As someone who drives both cars nearly every day, as a huge Nissan fan I'm really interested in your input. Thanks!!
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    im sure moo will respond too, but being a huge nissan fan, i think i would lean towards the new altima (v6 in a 6sp of course!) its a little bit lighter, very sharp looking, and much less than the maxima. don't get me wrong, i love the max...but the new altima is just hot!

    my two cents...(even though you didn't ask for them!)

    -thene :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I think we have 25 now including myself and the 2.5 guys in my Internet Dept.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You know, I like Nissans too. I really do.

    They just somehow seem to miss the mark a lot of times. The Quest is a good example of that. To me, the Altimas and Maximas look too much alike anymore.

    And as used cars, they don't hold a strong resale like Honda nad Toyota. This actually makes them a good value as used cars.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    i was never a fan of the quest - they could have done so much more with it, and it just missed the mark completely. it's not terrible, its just not great.

    the new altima (v6 model) has really become what the maxima used to be. the maxima is kinda in no-mans land now, but its still a nice car. its just so close in pricing to the G35 (which is a hot car!) that it almost doesn't make much sense. it is roomier though than the G...

    i was dissapointed in the new sentra. i own a 2003 Sentra SE-R Spec V, and now the spec V looks like every other sentra, just in wacky colors like yellow (which i have and love). at least mine had a different front fascia than the regular sentras...

    im starting to see myself drifting towards infiniti with regards to styling - they've really hit some home runs (in my opinion of course) and are turning themselves around...we'll see about nissan...

    my inlaws are huge honda fans - FIL just ordered a CRV in that red color. they have a civic hybrid too. nice cars - i just like the sportiness that nissan offers :)

    -thene :)
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    im sure moo will respond too, but being a huge nissan fan, i think i would lean towards the new altima (v6 in a 6sp of course!) its a little bit lighter, very sharp looking, and much less than the maxima. don't get me wrong, i love the max...but the new altima is just hot!

    Thanks thene - on some level I agree with you. The problem that I cannot reconcile with myself is that I like the Maxima's interior, but the Altima's size and grunt. I love my '03 Max, but I'm past halfway through my ownership of the thing and have started thinking. If I went with an Altima I would have to give up the interior "luxe" of my Max (not to mention the devestatingly powerful stereo), and I'm not sure I want to do that.

    IMO, the Infiniti G35 sedan should have been the new Maxima. :(

    My problem with this is I love my Nissan dealership, and the Infiniti dealership is owned by quite possibly the slimiest dealer group in the entire state of Michigan. They are hard-line old school "throw the keys on the roof" type operations, and not pleasant to do business with. When I get closer to buying, I'll ask my Nissan service dept. if they work on G35s. That might solve my problem, I'll just have Costco or someone handle the deal on the car itself. :P

    And who knows, maybe the '10/'11 Maximas will be 400 hp firebreathing V8 AWD monster sedans...if I can hold out that long. :)
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    One thing I've been meaning to ask ya Moo, is if you were to buy a new Nissan sedan TODAY would you go with an Altima or Maxima, and why?

    I'd have to run with the Altima. The horsepower changed this year. Maximas have gone to 240 and the Altima to 270. There are a number of features that you can't get on both, one or the other has it, but overall.... the Altima takes my business right now.

    Maxima is due to be redesigned for '08 model year. Lots of changes coming. Soon to look like the M's. Don't get me wrong, the Maxima has some nice features, but the Altima has all the new technology. I like it very much.

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Not too fast, Craig. I agree with you on the Quest. That '04 model was a brute. The build quality was miserable. The new ones are quite a bit better, but still suffering from the previous models problems.

    Right now, the new Altima has a strong resemblance to the G. The Maxima MY '08 will have a strong resemblance to the M. So that will be changing a bit.

    There are two vehicles in particular that are very strong for resale. #1 Muranos. Excellent vehicle. #2 Altimas. Starting from '04 and up.

    Nissan has come a long way. I love the fact that they make exciting vehicles. I can get excited about selling them.

    -Moo
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    They just somehow seem to miss the mark a lot of times. The Quest is a good example of that. To me, the Altimas and Maximas look too much alike anymore.

    And as used cars, they don't hold a strong resale like Honda nad Toyota. This actually makes them a good value as used cars.


    My folks actually love their Quest, although I personally hate it. It's a nice enough van, but the driver's seat is made for hobbitses. You can actually move the seat forward enough so it is TOUCHING THE DASHBOARD! And then, of course it only goes back a couple feet. My mom is 5"3', my father is 6"3' and it destroys his knees.

    I know the resale isn't quite Honda or Toyota level, but you can't put a price on a car's soul. ;) I've driven Accords and Camries, and there is just no contest. The Accord was a nice car but didn't do much for me (something about Honda interiors I've never liked), and I actively hated the Camry.

    I would expect them to dramatically change the look of the next Maxima, so it doesn't look so much like an Altima.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    And who knows, maybe the '10/'11 Maximas will be 400 hp firebreathing V8 AWD monster sedans...

    that's awesome!!! would it have scales and a tail too? ;)

    -thene :)
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    I know the resale isn't quite Honda or Toyota level, but you can't put a price on a car's soul.

    agreed! honda and toyotas make nice cars, but i don't want a nice car, i want a car with soul!

    -thene :shades:
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    Right now, the new Altima has a strong resemblance to the G. The Maxima MY '08 will have a strong resemblance to the M. So that will be changing a bit.

    I didn't realize the Maxima refresh was coming so soon!

    The M is a VERY nice car, but at the end of the day I'd rather have something smaller. I suspect I'll hold onto my (paid off) Maxima until my other bills come down, and then spring for a loaded Altima or stripper G35. :shades:

    Thanks for the info, BTW, and my apologies to everyone else for going off-topic. I just had to know. :blush:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I wasn't knocking Nissans. They are good cars.

    They just seem to miss the mark. Just my opinion.

    In my life I have owned several. I even had a Datsun pickup that wouldn't die.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Understood. The old "Pickup" and the XE model were workhorses. People loved those damn trucks.

    -Moo
This discussion has been closed.