Stories from the Sales Frontlines

thenebean

i think people have become conditioned to lie to salespeople because that is what all the "experts" say you should do. either that or they figure since "ALL" dealers lie, why can't i?

just be the better person and be honest, even if the other side of the table sometimes isnt. in the end, the one who is honest is the better person, and that is worth something. you don't ever have to buy if anything makes you feel uncomfortable. that's the kicker. yet people buy anyways, then blame the dealer. there is nothing anyone can ever do to make you buy, and if you do, then its no one's fault but your own. take responsibility people!

time to blow this popsicle stand! (not the message board, my cubicle!!)

-thene

mac24

I'm talking about the situation where the customer does their research and get effectively told " Nah, that's rubbish, you wasted your time". An immediate put down to establish a better negotiating position for the salesperson. I guess it works because, like screamer ads and tent sales, it's used so often.

A far better approach, which I've also experienced, is to say, "Well you're close but you haven't included ad fees or delivery" for instance. Of course, if the customer then goes on to call you a liar, bring out the baseball bat by all means!

jipster

Customers flat out lie all of the time...

Beings that you don't care to be lumped in with all the sleazy/dishonest salespeople, I'm sure you meant to say "some customers".

oregonboy

touche, jipster.

But I have trouble with the word "beings". Are you from the Midwest? There is a lady from Nebraska in the office that uses same word (I think), but the way she says it, it would be spelled "bein's" (pronounced: bee-inns) She drops the "Gs" from all words whether she's "comin' or goin' or just hangin' around".

All in fun, no offense intended - james

oldfarmer50

"...that they cannot produce in writing..."

Don't salesmen hate to put quotes in writing for fear that the customer will shop it all over town. Perhaps you should just call the other salesman and pretend to be the customer and say: " Hi, this is Joe Blow and I just wanted to check that figure you gave me."

isellhondas

I didn't say **ALL** customers lie. Most don't. Most of my customers are a pleasure to deal with and about a third or more of my cusotmers are repeat customers or referrals.

oldfarmer50

"Customers flat out lie..."

I try never to knowingly tell a lie to a salesman. Otherwise how could he help me get information I need to make a decision.

On the other hand I have caught the majority of the car salespeople I have dealt with in at least one lie of omission every time I have tried to purchase a car.
Examples: "This interest rate is about 6%" (closer to 12%)
"That price I gave you was yesterday's price, today it's $500 more"
"Those price guides don't keep up with REAL car prices. Used Chryslers have been going UP in value lately."
"No, we never fix dents in our used cars."

Some customers may feel that this is how the game is played. This is why I think for all the pot stirring Bobst does, his method is one of the better ways to buy a car.

tidester

"That price I gave you was yesterday's price, today it's $500 more"

To which the obvious reply is "Yesterday I was considering buying the vehicle, today I am not. Good day. "

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jipster

Are you from the midwest?

"Beings" that I'm from Louisville, Kentucky... I guess that would make me mid southeast.

Took a trip up to the Washington/Oregon area a few years back...really beautiful country.

rlatham

Well...I only ask for it in writing if it's something absurd that I can't do...otherwise I just take their word for it and do the deal...it's a lot less headache that way. I actually hate negotiating. If there's a number I can close you at, tell me what it is...if I can't do it the worst I can say is no.

rlatham

"That price I gave you was yesterday's price, today it's $500 more"

Well...if you would have bought a Subaru Outback on the first day of October last year...that would have been the case, they decreased the rebates...

cotmc

I attribute some of the problems with customers (dishonesty, fear, unfriendly bias) to questionable advertising practices and sales claims they experienced in the past. I've seen several examples from floor sales, newspaper ads, Finance reps, etc. Most of these types of experiences are from many years back, though.

Examples:

1) Newspaper Ad: "Get a brand new Camcortima LX for only $14,998!"

Translation: Dealership is offering one car at this price, and only if you qualify for the Owner Loyalty, Armed Services, and College Grad rebates.

2) Finance Rep: "This Extended Warranty package is an awesome deal! You can always buy it later, but I've heard it will go up in price another $250 at the start of next month."

Translation: The Extended Warranty price is probably fixed for the entire model year, but I want to make a sale...

3) Another Newspaper Ad example: "We are pricing our new Maxilon GXE models at $19,999. We have several in stock. Everyone qualifies!"

Translation: Listed price does not include additional cost of the "protection" package that includes pin stripes, door edge guards, mud flaps, and a glorified wax job. This automatically adds $750 to the $19,999 price. No exceptions.

4) Radio Ad: "Get up to $5000 or more on your trade!!"

Translation: ???

joel0622

It is the never ending debate. What came first the chicken or the egg? The customers says the sales people lie and the sales people say the customers lie. There is undeniable truth of both.

Everyone here has a story of how a dealer someplace at some time told them a lie, and I can find probably no less the 30 places on this message board where the advice given has been to lie.

So really there is no end to the finger pointing, what we need to do is trace it back to some cave man selling a wheel to another cave man and find out what happened first:

Did the wheel buyer say I will be back and never return

Or

Did the wheel seller say it had never been wrecked yet you could see a big chip knocked out on the back side.

madmanmoo

Hold your horses there. Rebates change. I told a customer this specifically before. If they buy today, there price will be such and such, if they purchase the next day, it will be higher. When they came back to purchase the next day, guess what? It's higher.

That isn't our decision. That's the manufacturer.

-Moo

joel0622

Moo, that will happen here tomorrow, I guarentee it. Programs end today and there will be some rebates that don't come back.

lrguy44

It is not the fact that both dealers and customers have been and are deceitful. My problem is the generalizations on both sides of this forum. Most of my customers are up front, honest, and fun to work with. But I personally resent posts that say all salespeople are dishonest, lie cheat etc. Maybe I am having a sensitive day - a good Manhattan tonite will cure that....

oldfarmer50

"Rebates change."

Just for the record, this was on Feb. 20th. There were no rebates that I knew of. An honorable salesman such as yourself would have said exactly what you did. This salesman did not.

madmanmoo

Ya, when I was selling Hondas that happened. When Honda brings a deal along, you need to hop on it. Because the programs do and will end.

The guy came back and was very angry with me because the price went up. I had told him that was going to happen. It was the last day of Honda's month. Just like today is. He ended up buying a Kia. It made me a laugh a little bit, but what was he thinking? He must have been reading those forums about salespeople always lying to you to make sure you do business that same day. Well, this time I wasn't.

-Moo

madmanmoo

Fair enough. That's a pretty crappy way to do business.

-Moo

cotmc

I think if you read my previous post more carefully, you'll see I was not intending to prolong the "never ending debate" about who lies the most. I was hoping to present some new examples of why some customers are weary or ornery when they visit you.

With the exception of my 2nd example, I was presenting examples of advertising that, at one time, was quite abundant in the industry. I'm sure there are still some dealers who follow similar styles of advertising. These are not examples of one person lying to another. I would refer to these examples as creative advertising. I'm guessing it goes without saying that you are not in favor of these types of advertisements, but somebody near the top of the food chain must be approving them! :confuse:

punkr77

I've found that finding the right salesperson and dealer makes all the difference. A portion are patently dishonest, a portion don't know what they're selling, and a portion are good people trying to make an honest buck. I think I spend more time shopping for a dealer and salesperson than I do the actual car. By the time I walk into the dealer, I've usually picked out the car, got financing arranged, and a rough price in mind. Nevertheless, I've ended up going to between 2-5 dealers before I make it into an office to make the deal.

Maybe they just don't like the look of me, or maybe I just have bad luck. Either way, those salespeople lost a quick and easy commission and I wasted my time.

rlatham

agreed...especially at or near the end of a month! All 3 of the brands I sell end today as well isell.

boomchek

Did the wheel buyer say I will be back and never return Or
Did the wheel seller say it had never been wrecked yet you could see a big chip knocked out on the back side.

The wheel buyer bought a square wheel elsewhere cause it was cheaper. :P :P

isellhondas

"Used Chryslers have been going UP in value lately"

?????

Is that a lie or a bad dream??

isellhondas

I like the screamer ads that proclaim among other things...

" ALL CREDIT APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED!!"

They may not get APPROVED but they definatly will be ACCEPTED!

boomchek

It's interesting to see so many different types of people asking silly questions (I guess the stupid question is the one not asked, right?) Most of the crowd 99% was good though:

Looker: What is the 09 Pilot going to look like?
Me: I don't know because it's still in the development, and we won't see it until fall of 08.
Looker: Well that's stupid, why do they have to keep it a secret anyhow? What's the big deal? It's not like Honda is some kind of top of the line company that needs to keep secrets!

Ok, there............

Looker: How much can the Ridgeline tow?
Me: 5000 lbs.
Looker: Ummm, yeah that won't work for me that might be a problem.
Me: Why, how big is your trailer, what are you towing?
Looker: I don't own a trailer, and I'm not planning on towing anything.
Me: So how is that a problem? :confuse: :confuse:

Looker: I want to buy an all electric vehicle.
Me: I don't think you can buy one in BC yet.
Looker: Oh I already ordered one of the Tesla roadsters, and I put a deposit on it that's worth more than your Hybrid.
Me: right right right
Looker: The 06, and o7 Teslas are sold out, the 08s are half sold, I will be getting an 09 model.
Me: if 08s are still available then why don't you get an 08?
Looker: cause I want them to work out all the bugs.
Me thinking (if you did put a deposit on a Tesla, why are you asking me for an electric car, is he trying to impress me or something?).

boomchek

Or the screamer ads that everyone is approved.

Sure they are:

if they have a cosigner
if they give a huge downpayment
if they agree to a 28.8% interest rate

joel0622

Cotmc, I was not directing my post at you, it just happen to be yours that i clicked the reply button on. its all just in the spirit of the conversation

snakeweasel

likewise don't believe anything the customer tells you...that price $2000 better than you can do on your best day the other dealer offered them that they cannot produce in writing probably never happened...

Gee how am I supposed to produce it in writing when all the salesmen here say they will never provide it in writing?

stickguy

Well, I believe that every deal (and price offer) stands alone. So, just because the price offered today was X, that doesn't mean the price tomorrow or next week will stil be X. Maybe it will be higher, maybe lower. Of course, they salesguy probably couldn't give a real # today, but the concept is sound.

jmonroe

" ALL CREDIT APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED!!"

My favorite is:

"IF WE CAN'T BEAT YOUR BEST LEGITIMATE DEAL WE WILL GIVE YOU THE CAR".

I wonder how many cars they've given away.

jmonroe

rworrell

Boom, these are fantastic--how many more days of the show will you be working? Post more! I think the Ridgeline question is my favorite, but really, it's so hard to choose...

snakeweasel

I wonder how many cars they've given away.

Well you know that any offer they can't beat is simply not legitimate.

For a deal to be legit you have to have a sales contract (but then why would you be at another dealer?), notarized and witnessed by the Pope.

madmanmoo

(Brings out whip.)

Gee how am I supposed to produce it in writing when all the salesmen here say they will never provide it in writing?

Gee. How are we supposed to carry on an intelligent conversation when everyone deals in generalities and stereotypes?

(Puts whip away.)

-Moo

madmanmoo

Those are good posts, Boom. Good stuff. :P :P

-Moo

venture

Our local Chevy dealer ran an ad a few months ago that caught my eye.

In big red letters it said "Buy This Car for $77 a Month".

In small letters - it was for a used Cavalier with a retail cost of $13,000, with a $4,500 down payment, etc. (I made up the numbers because I forget what they were, but you get the idea). :confuse:

tidester

If they buy today, [their] price will be such and such, if they purchase the next day, it will be higher.

That condition was not specified in the OP.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

cwalti

I am 'your' customer, and I will NOT BS or lie to you!

I will do my research, and will try to negotiate the best possible deal, full-well understanding that this deal has to make sense on your end as well!! I have had a positive experience, with 'my Honda pusher' Natalie in Westminster, CA, and will try to do business there again, because of the straight up approach, and the attractive bottom lines I have received. I have bought two cars myself, and sent friends and family and stranger there... All returned happy!

punkr77

I wouldn't take it personally. Some people are just compulsive liars. Then theres people who will lie to save them embarrassment because of their credit history or ignorance. They're likely the same peope who would lie to their doctor. Guess they don't think that the other guy will figure it out. It can actually be kinda funny, like a two year old covered in chocolate and crumbs denying that he ate all the cookies.

Generally, I think it's kind of like bluffing during poker, and some people are good at it and some people aren't. I've never felt the need to lie to a salesperson. It's especially stupid when you're fibbing about what other dealers are offering you. Unless it's their first week on the job, they know better what cars are going for than I ever will.

I'm more of a care bear buyer. In most situations, I've found sugar gets you more than vinegar. Unfortunatly, some salespeople will try to take advantage of that. I'm a nice guy, but I'm also smart enough to know when someone's trying to snow me. At that point the care bear goes away, and so do I.

thenebean

Gee how am I supposed to produce it in writing when all the salesmen here say they will never provide it in writing?

Please provide in writing ALL of the salespeople here who have said that. The only person I know that is adamant about it is isell. I know when I sold we gave quotes in writing, and i never said i would never do it.

tsk tsk snake, making all encompassing statements such as this. you should know better

-thene :P

au1994

My favorite is:

"We'll pay off your trade no matter how much you owe!!!!"

Of course you will, and then roll it right into the price of the new car!

dino001

I love:
YOU PAY $14,999*
*price after $3000 trade of cash down

It's the local "favorite" on Dodge and some non-lux imports.

So three grand comes from Santa Claus, doesn't it?

rockfish1

I have seen a number of references to the world renounced "BOBST CAR BUYING METHOD" but could not find it detailed in the 10319 messages. I easily may have missed it in my searches.

Could the method be explained again or do I have to buy the book?

jmonroe

"We'll pay off your trade no matter how much you owe!!!!"

I forgot about this one. I take back what I said in post 10308. This is my favorite screamer add or radio commercial. Now this one I'm sure has attracted the chronic payment buyer over and over. How else would they be upside down to the extent they are?

The only thing that can help the chronic payment buyers that fall for this is a law preventing this kind of truth in advertising.

Thanks 'au1994',

jmonroe

rlatham

The only thing that can help the chronic payment buyers that fall for this is a law preventing this kind of truth in advertising

Some might argue that GAP coverage will do just that... :confuse:

madmanmoo

I have seen a number of references to the world renounced "BOBST CAR BUYING METHOD"

I think it's hysterical that you said "world renounced" instead of "renowned". LOL!

Basically what Bobst does is walk into a dealership and hand the salesman a piece of paper with his offer. If they don't accept it, he leaves and goes to the next dealership and offers them slightly lower until someone accepts.

Works for him apparently. He loves it.

-Moo

british_rover

Basically what Bobst does is walk into a dealership and hand the salesman a piece of paper with his offer. If they don't accept it, he leaves and goes to the next dealership and offers them slightly HIGHER until someone accepts.

Works for him apparently. He loves it.

I fixed your mistake there...

audia8q

I find the discussion of who is a bigger liar, salesperson or customer, very amusing..... its almost like the salesperson and customer are two different species that are only allowed to get together once ever few years....Last time I checked they are both the same people you see at the mall, church, your kids school, etc...when dealing with the public you see that many folks are down right sleazy and would cheat their own mothers if they had the chance....They can be bankers, lawyers, car salespeople, middle management etc...When money is involved it can bring out the worst in people.

madmanmoo

Thanks BR, I guess that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense would it. LOL.

-Moo

jmonroe

Thanks BR, I guess that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense would it. LOL.

Please check your work before submitting it. If it weren't for Rover you would have given Bobst a bad name.

Then again maybe you were trying to sneak in the "Moo Method" so that when customers went to another dealer they could have a good laugh and you could share these laughs at a salesperson's convention.

jmonroe