Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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If you are trading in a Kia, that's not too bad. :P
Thats not always the case. I'm one of those bizarre salespeople who doesn't like negotiating. If you give me a number...I see if I can hit it. If I can...I do it. If not... I just tell them I can't do it and give the best number I possibly can. Negotiating is a waste of time. You know walking in what number you'll be happy buying the car for. Just tell me that number. I don't understand customers (cars or otherwise) with the "there's a better deal out there" mentality. No matter what you're looking at, be it a TV, a Car, a House, whatever... there's always a better deal out there than the one you got. With TV's and houses though, we just take what we got and we don't think about it again. With a car, if you find a better deal out there after you purchase, then the mentality is that the salesperson "screwed" you. In all likelyhood...Best Buy made more off you on that 40 inch plasma than the car dealer made selling you that Jetta. And in 3 years, that Jetta will have retained more of its initial value than that TV. :confuse: :sick:
Yeah, it is true that we pay cash because we don't buy expensive cars. In the past years, we haven't had a trade because we gave our older cars to our children.
We had a trade in 1995, the first time I used the Bobst Method. I offered our Taurus plus $13600 for a new Honda, but they did not accept. I went somewhere else, offered $13750, and they took it. I gave them a check and the keys for our wretched Taurus (what a relief to get rid of that awful thing!) and drove away in a nice new Accord and took my daughter out for lunch.
Bob failed to mention that he also uses his patented method at restaurants as well. It took about 2 hours of hopping from one restaurant to another, but he finally found a deli that was interested in his business.
All in all, it was a very successful day. The EMT's came quickly when his daughter was extremely low on blood sugar and were very understanding. Alls well that ends well.
-Moo
Would this be called: "The Bobst Salesperson Method"?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The last thing in the world I want to do is burn my bridges at one dealership, then have to start the whole process of finding another vehicle optioned out like I want somewhere else.
The bobst method may be good for those who don't like to negotiate, or for greenpeas. But, for seasoned pros like the jipster, you'll do better $$$ wise by negotiation... plus it's less of a hassle, IMO.
edited: Plus negotiation is fun, fun ,fun... at least to me it is.
It was a little different than car buying. After they refused my lowball over for our lunch, we tried to walk out but their bouncer stopped us. Have you ever considered having a bouncer at your store?
Interesting concept, would really be sort of a "reverse bouncer", right? Since they're trying to keep the customers in the establishment instead of out...
We used to have an auto group here in town that had tossers and blockers instead of bouncers. They'd either toss people's keys up on the roof or block in their cars when they got fed up and wanted to leave without doing a deal!
Negotiate for fun...fun...fun all you want. But, the whole way, you're getting "bumped....bumped....bumped"!
First, I doubt it's "live." I'm sure there is some algorithm that responds to whatever you put in, with parameters. I bailed out after a few back and forths. But it was a pretty easy way to "negotiate." If you hit a price you want to pay, it "accepts" your bid and sends you an email or something that you take to the dealership (you have to sign up for this) and seal the deal.
So my question is, has anyone heard of this or used it? Experiences? I apologize if this has been discussed at some other time.
Thanks.
Though I can relate to it. Several times I called dealerships about vehicles advertised in the paper. Salesman tells me that it's available and to come on in for a test drive. I drive(only 15-20 minutes) to said dealership within the hour, and suddenly the car is not available. It's been "sold". On two separate other occasions I came in and was told the car(s) had been in a fender bender while being backed out by a salesperson and it was in the body shop... then directing me to another higher priced vehicle. Perhaps in both our cases these were just incidents of the dreaded "honest mistakes" people sometimes make. :sick:
Negotiate for fun...But, the whole way, you're getting bumped...bumped.."
Oh, negotiation is fun for me alright. I enjoy playing the game. As long as the buyer is in control of the bumping it's a good strategy. It lets dealership save face, and builds good will to getting a lower price.
Price your vehicles:
To start selling, simply enter a Buy Now price and a Hidden Floor price (the minimum price you are willing to accept for the vehicle).
If so, how do you know that your offer has been refused?
Do you accept a verbal refusal as a final refusal?
First of all, let me say I feel honored and privledged to be in direct correspondence with the author of the famous "Bobst Method" of car buying.
Secondly, I let the salesman sell the car to me... not the other way around. I believe time investment can work for the informed buyer as well as it can for the dealership. I'll try to get the salesperson to throw out the first number. If it's higher than what I want to pay(usually is) I'll say so. Eventually I will make a counter offer or the salesperson will ask.
If after a period of time, there is no acceptance of my offer, I take that as a refusal and get up to leave... usually saying I will need to check my numbers. When I did this two times on my MPV purchase, the salesmanager asked me to wait and he'd check his numbers again and try to work something out. Both times he came back with offers much closer to what I wanted.
Do you accept a verbal refusal as a final refusal?
Yes, if I got a verbal refusal then I would take that as a final refusal.
I hear what you're saying, but rest assured some of us attempt to be just as "tight" with other big ticket items as we are with car purchases.
Examples:
For our big-screen TV purchase last year, I was prepared to wait 2-3 months for a good sale price. I was determined not to pay anywhere near the list price, and I was keeping several options open. After about a month, I found a great sale at Fry's Electronics. To verify this was the best price, I checked pricing on the internet, and then I called up Best Buy to see if they could price match (which is their policy to do). Response: "Sorry. That price is lower than we typically pay for them."
For our current house, I waited and purchased a spec home that was about $50K lower than contracted by the original buyer. On our previous home purchase, which we contracted with a builder, my realtor and I dogged the sales rep to get approval for a slightly larger incentive than they were originally offering. Yes, I'm sure the builder made a vastly superior profit margin on that house versus a VW dealer with a Jetta sale, but I tried my best to even the field, just a little...
I say it in a toned down voice, shaking my head.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Huh?
I was talking about people who say what do you mean $8000 for a trade, just last year it was a $16,000 car. referring to the Window sticker, not the $12,000 they actually paid after rebates and discounts.
I was more then anything being a smart [non-permissible content removed].
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1) Would you agree that a customer's expectations on the trade-in value of his car is one of the most significant stumbling blocks to completing a purchase agreement?
2) If so, then why won't pricing sources for us consumers, such as KBB.com, provide more accurate "real-world" trade-in estimates for used cars? :confuse: The estimates I typically see are inflated well above the real-world auction/wholesale prices.
For as many transactions as I have been involved, only a couple of my trades were reasonably close to the estimates provided by KBB. A typical scenario: KBB.com says my car, which has been detailed and in absolutely pristene condition, is worth $19K when priced within the "Good" condition (I know better than to use the "Excellent" price!); yet the best trade-in bid I can get is $17K. :mad: There is an immediate impulse response to show frustration at the dealer, but I know it isn't the dealer's fault. It's likely the pricing info that is to blame, along with my ignorance for believing it!
-thene
As you know that the guide price is going to be a couple of thou' too high, why not just lower your expectations by the same amount?
But my expectations aren't the main point of my question.
If a reasonably intelligent and handsome young engineer like myself
Wouldn't it be easier for everyone involved if these consumer pricing guides, such as KBB, took more of a "conservative" approach to their pricing estimates? :confuse:
For example, gas just hit 3.00/gallon here. People will overreact and frantically try to trade their tankers in.
Well, others have the same idea. We DON'T WANT your tanker because we know it's going to rot on our lot. The dealers that sell them don't want them, the wholesalers don't want them and they " No Sale" at the auction.
So, the books say that Expedition is worth 12,000. We get reluctant bids for 7500.00 and become the bad guys.
So, yes, an undesirable trade can kill a sale.
"IF WE CAN'T BEAT YOUR BEST LEGITIMATE DEAL WE WILL GIVE YOU THE CAR".
I wonder how many cars they've given away.
We have a screamer ad dealer here that in both radio and tv says
"IF WE CAN'T GET YOU APPROVED, WE'LL GIVE YOU A CAR" and
the they advertise a 'special' approval software like it's the holy grail to approve everyone.
Absolutely. No Questions.
If so, then why won't pricing sources for us consumers, such as KBB.com, provide more accurate "real-world" trade-in estimates for used cars?
It's funny you should ask. I actually sent KBB an e-mail a few months ago to ask them how they come up with their values. They said some of what they put on cars is random based on a calculated depreciation...and then they also calculate it based on what dealers give for cars. Well...all of us know what dealers give for cars on paper isn't always what they're actually paying for it....sometimes it can be significantly more. In some states, you're better off taking the lower price for your trade rather than the padded price and getting the lower sale price for the car...because you pay much less in taxes.
Also...people have a bad habit of self-appraising their car. Which tends to mean "excellent" all the time. You've gotta be realistic when you're trying to figure out what your car is worth. If you've got a one or two year old car, send out a quote request for a new one just like it...then look at Kelly. The dealer is going to have to ask between $2000 and $3000 less than what you can get a new one for...and then they're probably going to pay you between $2000 and $3000 below that because just like in new cars, what we ask for a used one rarely is what we sell it for...plus there is siginficant (even in the best retailable cars) reconditioning costs. (detailing, shop fees, new tires, etc...)
We certainly don't disclose information like this!
When I sold allot of the time I wouldn't even ask if there was a payoff. When we agreed to a deal or they asked what the payment would be I would ask for a title, if they said they didn't have it because there was a lien I would just ask if they wanted to write a check for the balance or include it in the new loan. That really brings home the fact that the two have nothing to do with each other. It also kept me from getting discouraged early in the deal because of negative equity.
Are NADA or Mannheim Auction numbers/data readily available to consumers, to more accurately gauge our trade-in before we visit dealerships?
Remember houses are unique items, no two are exactly alike. So it is theoretically impossible for someone to get a better deal on a house.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
KBB, hell!
I've got access (through a local friend) to Manheim data. A couple of days ago, I decided to see what my truck would bring on trade -- I'm a CCBA charter member, you see, and it's been almost six months.
So I leave the truck with the guy at the Pontiac dealership where I've been a customer before and take my bike to work.
When I pick it up, the number is, ta-dah!, $10. I tell him the only proper answer to a cash offer on an automobile is a smile and a thank you, and I'm doing that.
Then I pull out the Manheim numbers I've got and ask him, these are 06's with 15 and 20k miles and they're pulling $12 and more; mine's got two thousand miles and it's an '07... what gives?
What gives is that he doesn't want it on his lot, so he had his wholesaler look at it, who was there picking up another unwanted pickup truck, and the limit was $10,500.
Now keep in mind, this is for a truck he probably can't buy at auction for under $13, plus the fees. I can buy it new for $16 and not a penny less.
But I can't fault the guy; if he doesn't want it and doesn't want to make a dissertation out of getting rid of it, what else should he do?
So even with the latest and greatest information available, it still comes down to what is it worth to *the dealer*. And I can't argue with that.
Good thing I still like the old girl... and I'm convinced I could get my money back if I sell it privately. But i don't have my eyes on anything specific yet, so I'm not going through the pain and suffering.
OTOH, there is absolutely no excuse for the idiotic data provided by KBB in particular, and also Edmunds in many cases. That really screws up things!
-Mathias
I would definately argue it IS possible for someone to get a better deal on a house. You just have to compare apples to oranges a bit. If the apple is bruised and rotten, and costs $.15 but the orange is perfect and costs $.20 which one is the better deal? Obviously...unless you like spoiled fruit...the Orange is the better deal.
I paid about $250k for my condo. It's new construction. I took advantage of about $20,000 in rebates and got the interior configured exactly to my specifications. About two blocks from here, a smaller place, that was older, and not configured exactly to my specifications that needed a good amount of work was for sale for about $275k at the same time I bought mine with no rebates available. Both were first-floor units. Obviously, mine was the better deal.
trade-in's are not easy for the comsumer to figure out.
Here in the Chicago area two blocks can be the difference between night and day. Take your example I can place they other condo in a location where it would be the bargain of the century and yours two blocks away would be greatly overpriced.
the fact is that no two pieces of property are the same and therefore it is difficult to compare.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Above are several posts (including my own) discussing homes and real estate, each with the Title of "Re: Bobst Car Buying Method".
Does the Bobst Method work for real estate? :surprise:
Several months ago the best resource Edmunds ever had (from the consumer view) took his leave from the Real-World Trade-in Value board (RRoyce). A shame, but during the several years that he provided (entertaining and dead-nuts accurate) data, we all learned that auction values are all that matter, and that they vary across the country, and that they depend on things like color.
The car you've got is only worth what you (or the store) can sell it for at auction. These values aren't public, because if they were, we'd know what the stores know.
Oh my.
No offense, Volvomax. You provide helpful data, but Royce did it with flair.
I guess it could.
Wouldn't have worked for my house though.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not so with cars. They are, like it or not, commodities.
In a way, yes.
When buying a house, you make an offer in writing.
The seller knows if they refuse the offer and make a counter-offer, then your original offer is off the table and they may not get it back. The seller can't play games. They have to make a decision.
It is kind of like a car buyer making an offer, letting the sales person squirm for a few minutes, and then walking out. The time for playing games is over. The sales manager has to make a decision.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper