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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    you got him lrguy, so he won't respond ;)

    plus, with used cars, you don't know how they were maintained, how they were driven, the types of roads (was it being driven over pitted roads with lots of bumps, putting wear and tear on the shocks)

    too many variables...no way to get two used cars exactly alike - its like finding two people who are exactly alike! even twins arent!

    -thene :)
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I hereby nominate Bobst for president! He already lives in the neighborhood...
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    jipster....I don't have any qualms with the way you buy. We're different in our approach, that's all. I know the price I'm going to drive away with. In your approach, I'm not sure you do. Maybe you have that target price in mind and want to play the game until you get to it. On the other hand, I know mine up front and cut to the chase immediately.

    The story I related about helping a friend to buy a Sonata is one of the few times I didn't know what price would be the "end price". I knew a bit about the market for those cars, but not as much as I usually like. I knew a bit about prices in my area, but again, not as much as I usually know. That was a function of her being all over the map regarding what she wanted. I was prepared to help her buy an Accord. But, she went from that, to an Altima, to a Civic, to finally, a Sonata. I had to use your methods to get her a good deal on that Sonata. It just took longer than I like. Once they weren't willing to move any more, and I wasn't willing to move anymore, we came to a deal. She wouldn't let me walk. If she had let me go in and "do my thing" the way I wanted, I'm fairly certain I could have saved her another $100 or so....maybe not at the same dealer, but what I was thinking was "doable" somewhere. She had to have that Sonata, in that color, with those particular options, from that particular dealer. So, I was a bit limited with what I could do. Still, she got a good deal.

    The story I related about the Mustang was nothing more than pointing out that I went down your way to buy one based on the dealership agreeing on the phone that...

    1) They had the car I wanted (and no one else in my vicinity did)
    2) They would sell it at the Ford A plan price (which they said they would, and then didn't once I got in the store)

    They wanted to negotiate (from ADM sticker, no less). I didn't. They knew that up front. Yet, they still had me drive down there to get me in the door. Believe me, it was a very short and very curt conversation. The salesman even ran out to the driveway as I was driving away and wanted me to sit down at his desk. I wasn't about to get into a negotiating session with him. I knew that after a long "give and take", he still wasn't going to be close to the price I was willing to pay, so why bother.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    " About two blocks from here, a smaller place, that was older, and not configured exactly to my specifications that needed a good amount of work was for sale for about $275k at the same time I bought mine with no rebates available. Both were first-floor units. Obviously, mine was the better deal."

    Ah, but in some cities 2 blocks is a different world :-)
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Fortunately in my town it isn't. I live in a planned community in a relatively upscale suburb. The "older" condo is two years old and is within my community. It was just on a different phase of the construction.
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    Fortunately in my town it isn't. I live in a planned community in a relatively upscale suburb. The "older" condo is two years old and is within my community. It was just on a different phase of the construction

    Maybe it had more upgrades, or lesser condo fees.
    Or maybe a larger property, or backing onto something better, or a walkout basement.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    I'm goin' to shift gears away from real estate and thank all of you who responded regarding my questions/issues with Trade-In Values. Based on your responses, I guess I need to accept the fact that estimating trade-in values is far from an exact science! Whereas I look for order, there is only chaos. :(

    Well, at least there seems to be some consensus here that KBB trade-in estimates are often whacked.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    :shades: Ah Hah - you catch on. If it were an exact science, I would have been out of a job years ago. And also we did not even mention (but will for Snakes's benefit) that in high end trades absence of service records will also effect trade value. :confuse:
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    I knew that would be the case - it always is
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I guess I need to accept the fact that estimating trade-in values is far from an exact science!

    I feel for ya. I believe you said in a previous post that you are a technical guy, me too (or at least I was when I was a working stiff). Therefore, for most people, especially us, this trying to hit a moving target just ain't right.

    Someone otta create a law of physics for this car buying stuff. :blush:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Right, in my method I don't know the exact price I will be driving away with... just that it will be within a range. If it falls in the lowest price range, great for me. If it falls in the upper(of low) then I'm still happy as it will be a good deal.

    Yes, the way you worked your Sonota deal sounds a lot like the way I worked my MPV deal. Except at a certain point I started, and was prepared to walk, if progress started to lag to much.

    I only buy a new(er) vehicle every 3 or 4 years on average, so cutting to the chase isn't a priority with me. Even though I was lied to and given the runaround by a few dealerships, my 2 cars purchases in 2004 were both exciting and enjoyable.

    I'm sure my next car purchase will involve about 2 years of research, 19 hours of test drives... and about 7 hours of negotiation. Moo... where did you say your dealership was again? ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I'm sure my next car purchase will involve about 2 years of research, 19 hours of test drives...

    I would have thought ... anyone who would go through this to buy a car would want to save time when they got to the negotiating table but I guess you ain't in a hurry to do that first wax job. ;)

    Moo... where did you say your dealership was again?

    Good idea. Then let us know if he'll fall for the "Moo Method" of negotiating. :surprise:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    "Good idea. Then let us know if he'll fall for the "Moo Method" of negotiating."

    Ha!

    If jipster attempts the "Moo Method" of negotiation on Moo, himself, then I wouldn't be surprised if Moo counters with the two-fingered "Moe Method"! :P

    (Hey, I resemble that remark! Nyuk, nyuk!)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    No he doesn't, I just know that he will never acknowledge that there can be two identical used cars.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Even in the same development two blocks can be a world of difference. Take for instance my house, if it were across the street it would be worth at least $15K less simply because of the view from the back.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • shannonfshannonf Member Posts: 2
    a better deal is a state of mind you may save a hundred bucks or two but is it worth it all the driving and negotiating i have found that the best deal is in the long run when you dont ask for the dealer to lose or make nothing on your deal pay invoice less rebates call it a day everyones happy and your not the tight-wad who cares about noone the reality is that only at the dealer that is local can you truly get the best deal including service and truthfully its not about price you want to win and somtimes (a lot) you dont realize the good deal you will pay top dollar for shoes and appliances why not be easy on the dealer
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    wow i never thought i would miss a period so much
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    wow i never thought i would miss a period so much

    Great response.

    My thoughts exactly. I'm no English/Writing Major (as everyone here will agree) but even I do better than that.

    When you have to read a post 2 or 3 times, something everything gets lost in the translation. :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Wow, I'm dizzy after reading that one and trying to decipher it.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    It's the bobst posting method: Use only lower case letters and the space bar. Short and sweet. No wasting time using silly shift and punctuation keys. Chances are that a reader will decipher it before you leave your computer chair. Then they will flag you down and accept your post. If they don't, another will come along and make an attempt. Sooner or later someone will figure it out and respond.
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    the cool thing about no punctuation, though, is we could all read it and make it mean totally different things :P
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    if i understand it correctly it will not be easy for the dealer to pay top dollar for shoes
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Therefore, for most people, especially us, this trying to hit a moving target just ain't right.

    You got that right! It doesn't help our aim when this moving target keeps taking such highly illogical turns. :P

    Someone otta create a law of physics for this car buying stuff.

    The most applicable law I can come up with is Murphy's Law. ;)
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Someone otta create a law of physics for this car buying stuff.

    Okay, someone's gotta do it - enjoy!

    Laws of Sales Motion with apologies to Sir Isaac:

    I A sale in motion tends to stay in motion and a sale at rest deserves it.

    II The acceleration of a customer from the showroom varies in proportion to the applied force of a sales pitch and inversely with a customer's ego.

    III For every sales action there is an equal and totally unrelated reaction.

    And, of course, the thermodynamics of the buying process with apologies to Carnot, Gibbs, Clausius and Thomson:

    I You can't win.

    II You can't break even.

    III You can't even get out of the game! :)

    However, the overriding law would be the Automotive Butterfly Effect, with apologies to Edward Lorentz, which states:

    A butterfly flapping its wings in East Timor may induce a vortical collapse of Big Three sales in the U.S.

    :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The most applicable law I can come up with is Murphy's Law.

    Yeah... you're right. Afterall he is, by far, the greatest Lawman in our universe. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Okay, someone's gotta do it - enjoy!

    Laws of Sales Motion with apologies to Sir Isaac:


    Yes, it was enjoyable.

    Only a savvy Host could have put it into words like that. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    snake - there can't. there are too many variables. you mean to tell me you think you could find two cars with the same exact miles driven, same color, bought on the same day and owned for the same amount of time, same scrapes, dings, dents, same maintenence routine, same types of roads driven, same type of gas used, etc. you really believe that all of this is possible?

    c'mon snake, you're too smart for that!!

    -thene ;)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    snake - there can't. there are too many variables.

    There may be a lot of variables but for a lot of models there are way to many sold not to have two out there that are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockfish1rockfish1 Member Posts: 113
    Snake, you have it right in saying two cars can be identical. In buying and selling cars, a single buyer or seller can easily equate in their minds that two cars are identical. The difference of two or three dings, two or three carpet stains, two or three thousand miles on tires and brakes may not matter to certain buyers or sellers resulting in their minds that the cars are identical.

    If you parked your blue 2001 Sludgemobiles LX in a LargeMart parking lot close to any other blue 2001 Sludgemobiles LX would you or the other owner accidently walk up to the wrong blue 2001 Sludgemobiles LX and try to open the door before realizing that they were at the wrong car?
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    snake - we're not talking just the model/trim level/color. with used cars, you have to take into consideration the condition of the vehicle, the history, etc. these things change how good a vehicle is. you will not find two used vehicles that have the same condition - even if model/color etc are the same.

    if you're talking NEW cars, well then that's a different story...

    -thene :)
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    I'm sure my next car purchase will involve about 2 years of research, 19 hours of test drives... and about 7 hours of negotiation. Moo... where did you say your dealership was again?

    Nothing wrong with that. If I took all the hours I spent researching before I even set foot in a dealership (including caressing the new iron when the dealerships are closed), I'd probably be in that same ballpark.

    You and moo should YouTube your encounter at the negotiation table. I'd find it entertaining.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Know what's scary about this whole thing? I was also nicknamed "Moe" as a kid because of my black hair and bowl cut. Mama didn't care too much for paying for those fancy haircuts.

    As far as the Shannon post, I want to thank everyone who commented on that post. That was one of the funniest exchanges I've seen between our members here. And of course you know, grammar is near and dear to my heart. You guys need to slam me one time for misuse!

    I just threw my damn back out yesterday while I was working on the yard. I was picking up a piece of equipment and turned, then POP! I fell over and my wife is just looking at me. She tries to help me up and I tell her to leave me alone. I'm giggling to myself as I'm looking up at the sky. I'm wondering again how a 31 year old can act so much like an old man sometimes.

    I thought it would be gone right away, but I was again overcome with laughter as I could barely walk anywhere. The mirth is gone. Now it just pisses me off. Rx drugs here we come. Oh yeah, but to keep this on-topic. I STILL sold a car.

    My business manager called and told me that one of my customers wanted to go ahead with the deal I presented him on Wednesday. Business manager heard my story, decided to not let the deal get split. He did all the paperwork, clean-up and delivery for me. Now that's some love!

    Anyhow, I'm off to the doc. Wish me luck!

    -Moo
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Ya, but the problem is, he plans to do the 2 years of research, 19 hours of test drives... and about 7 hours of negotiation with me firmly planted at his side.

    Jipster is a tricky little [non-permissible content removed]. The funny thing is, I'll still take his head off! :blush:

    -Moo
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    .... [non-permissible content removed]. The funny thing is, I'll still take his head off!

    LOL. I'll crush you like a pimple on a pigs [non-permissible content removed]. I'll have you so far underneath a "mini" they'll have to scrape you off the ground with a spatula.

    As a gesture of goodwill though, after the vehicle is delivered, I'll throw in one of those Moe "chili bowl" haircuts your mama use to give you... no charge. :P
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    you two are too funny! thanks for the laughs!!

    moo - hope your back feels better!!!

    TGIF!!

    -thene :)
  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,701
    Moo,

    You're at a Nissan dealer in the Atlanta area right?

    2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I was picking up a piece of equipment and turned, then POP!

    Absolute textbook way to rupture a disc. Lift something and twist to one side. The pain comes from the muscles trying to protect the damaged area. Most people over thirty manage to do it at some time or another, so you're not alone.

    It should resolve with rest and drugs, but it'll always be a weak point from then on. If you have leg pain or numbness too, take it very seriously and don't try to tough it out.

    Good luck, and try not to write up too many crazy deals while you're on those good meds. :shades:
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Well Madman, I am twice your age and my back is better than it was when I was 31. I hope your back improves like mine has. Orthotics have helped a lot.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yup I did the same thing once back when I worked for UPS. Crowched down to pick up a 60ish lbs package and someone called my name as I was standing up. I turned to see who it was and bam I went to the floor of the trailer.
  • shannonfshannonf Member Posts: 2
    ;)Okay. Thank you for the remarks so full of wit. I won't lie I did get a laugh out of them. Really there is alot of people that just dont know when to stop when negotiating and for me it doesn't seem worth the trouble or time to shop from Maine to Spain for a hundred or two hundred dollars.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ;)Okay. Thank you for the remarks so full of wit. I won't lie I did get a laugh out of them.

    Now that's better. I got all of that .... the first time. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    No offense, Volvomax. You provide helpful data, but Royce did it with flair.

    The difference is that I work for a living. :D
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Car condition isn't really the determining factor, esp at an auction.
    The mindset of the buyer matters more.
    If there is a glut of a particular car, say when a bank or captive sells lease returns, the price will go down.
    Even if the identical car sold a week earlier for more money.
    It still comes down to demand.
  • cotmccotmc Member Posts: 1,081
    Tidester: Classic! That was some funny stuff -- especially your twist to Newton's Laws of Motion! :P

    Shannon: Thanks for being a good sport! :D

    GG: Forget YouTube! Judging by their recent exchanges within this forum, I'm beginning to think the encounter between Moo and Jipster at the negotiation table might become a screenplay for the next Quentin Tarantino movie. :P
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    ;)Okay. Thank you for the remarks so full of wit.

    Such a good sport... we meant no harm. ;)
  • rlathamrlatham Member Posts: 50
    Ok...so today I closed a deal with the longest negotiating period since I started selling cars 3 years ago. I've only been working on this car since October 2006!

    Can anyone beat that?
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    not a state record, but a county record! Good Job :shades:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    which county???
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Easily.

    I have had deals that lasted a year or more.

    The longest I can think of was someone that I talked to in June of 2005 Initialy. We went back and forth for several months and could not settle on anything. She came back in about six months later and we did the whole dance again. A couple of months later we were back at it and that continued for a couple of months. Finally in October of 2006 I closed her down on a Supercharged Range Rover Sport after dozens of phone calls, at least ten visits to the showroom and probably twenty emails.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Other then people I have coached on credit and got there scores high enough to buy one.

    Good job on both your parts on hanging in there.
This discussion has been closed.