Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Is that for all makes of cars? There is this one dealership that I drive by each and every day many times stopping for a light right in front of it. I don't think I ever saw anyone in that dealership. I seriously doubt they sold very many cars. But since the sell Bentleys my guess is that don't have to sell many.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Let me rephrase this.
Damages over $2k IS NOT considered a rebuilt.
The car we appraised had suspicious and unknown history. It was a badly repaired car. We offered to pay him $2k for the Civic since he insisted on a number and we did not want the car. We offered him $2k for the car because that's what we would have paid if it was a rebuilt.
We did not want the car. So we lowballed him so he would go away.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The fleet and lease guys work solely on their repeats and orphan customers, and lease renewals, they do not take floor ups.
The do about 20 a month each.
The rest of us do an average of about 10-15 a month, with a handful doing 15 -20 a month.
I worked at another small Honda store where there were 6 saleguys and one "fleet" guy. This guy does 30-40 cars every month.
The problem was (and why I left that store), was that everything revolved around him. He would have 2 or 3 customers in at once, and get the managers to work deals for him, plus he'd make his appointments wait, and because the store was on an up system, he'd still be taking ups while with his customers in the store.
It wasn't really fair for the others as you could do a shift waiting for an up, and this guy would say it's his appointment, or his turn or whatever.
People used to come in and ask for him, not even knowing what he looked like or who he was. I have a feeling he was paying off the receptionsits to put all the calls to him as well.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Truth told, if I were in car sales, that's exactly what I'd do. I'd flip the receptionist a $10 for every call, or "up" she steered my way that turned into a sale. Slow day? I'd make it a $20 bill for each one.
Works wonders.
Great scene from Rodney Dangerfield "Back to School" when he is explaining to the professor about paying off the Garbage Disposal Company and he says "I can assure you those fellas are not the Boy Scouts" haaaaa
-mike
Would you help out the receptionist with her search for a new job when you both got fired
I am sure it happens in places, if it happened here you would either get fired or the rest of the sales staff would make your life so miserable you would quit. Bird Dogging the Service Writer or Parts Truck Driver is one thing, but the recpionist? That would never fly, she has a direct impact on everyones income on the floor.
Oh, I would put a considerable (2-3000) nonrefundable deposit down ... I've had to do it before. They absolutely flat out won't order - and no one could get MTs out of the allocation. Apparently the MT Elements are popular somewhere because no one I spoke to could snag our first or second color choice (there were 10 on the build list). We went to WI to get color #2 off the lot.
-mike
Some b/o managers get cases of beer from me if they can roll cars before the end of the months, etc.
Parts, and service too. I've given whiskey, tequilla, etc.
The guys appreciate it, and do favours for me if I need any, with no questions asked.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
-mike
I'm surprized to read that you would do something like that. I think it's a dirty, rotten, back stabbing way to make a buck... and would not have any part of it.
If salespeople are doing that to each other, I can only imagine what they are doing to the customer.
-mike
-mike
You are splitting hairs there. The reason for tip is the service being provided. Its not the integrity of the tip that is being questioned. Its the integrity of the service offered.
It may be an accepted practice where you live. And like I said there is nothing wrong with this practice if you are talking about the service writers, techs, courtesy driver, etc. But the receptionist, that can draw to much controversy.
-mike
there is a difference there!
just my two cents...
-thene
-mike
Kinda like tipping to get a seat at one of the fancy NY restaurants, right?
I think the difference between a tip which is moral and a bribe which is not is the effect it has on others. If the waitress brings you your dinner and gives you great service she gets a tip. If you pay the waitress to bring you food off someone else's table it is a bribe.
By the same token if the money you pay the receptionist takes money away from another salesman who would have otherwise received it, it's a bribe.
Last year the host at the Saratoga Raceway was fired for extorting bribes of up to $200 for tables at the clubhouse restaurant. He protested that it was just a customary tip. The inspector general thought different.
All the NYC folks couldn't understand the fuss.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think "tipping" is the wrong choice of words in this situation. "Bribe" or "payoff" is much more appropriate.
edited: Just read your post oldfarmer, couldn't agree more.
Haaaa you guys are funny, calling a tip a bribe!
-mike
in other businesses, your employer and your company would be at extreme risk because of that kind of methodology in conducting business. because it is tolerated in your business, at your dealership, by you and the people that work with you... well, it's pretty unfortunate. take care.
As for a dealership caring if the receptionist get's a $10 tip to direct sales to a particular salesmen? I hightly doubt they'd care since for them it's the bottom line, they are in business to make money, if the sales are all generated by 1 person they still get their cut of the profits regarless of who is the sales person.
-mike
Stick to Wall Street Brother
it's called junkets, where you take clients out for expensive dinners, or you take them to FLA for a Golf weekend,
We just had a Senator go to jail here for that very same thing.
Interesting to see some of the reactions though.
A bit of cash to smooth things out never hurts. Unfortunately it's the way of the world.
-mike
I'm looking for a couple of new best friends with money.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
God its boring here at work today.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Since the salesman didn't ask you to leave you were at liberty to sit in the vehicle all you wanted while 'your' salesperson attended to others.
You already knew that "orders" were possible.
Grand - were you having a bad day or what? This guy was not about to leave me alone with the vehicle and spent his time reading the sticker to me - actually pretty useless. Are you his Uncle?
(solicitation removed... thanks to helpful members)
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Your prior post stated you worked on Wall Street.... present tense. Which is it?
...just playing major devils advocate with you guys. Interesting to see some of the reactions though.
A lot of people on "Smart Shoppers" call that trolling.
Unfortunately it's the way of the world.
A bit of an over generalization. Not everyone behaves in such an unethical manner. You and GG think it okay, about 6 others disagree. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, don't quite understand how someone could condone such a practice.
Basically this tipping practice, as you call it, is taking money out of the salesmans co-workers pocket to pad his own. I'm sure when the "tip" is presented it is done secretively/under the table, out of view of the other salespeople. Just sounds shady to me.
Let me make things clear that I (along with the other sales guys), assumed that's what must be happening there, but it was not proven.
But that's the only explanation we could have come up with as to why people are coming in to see this guy without ever seeing him before.
Plus he does not advertise anywhere.
As for the tip vs bribe thing. I agree. Paying someone off to unfairly send them all the business is a bribe. Paying someone for doing a favour once in a while would be a tip.
Even if that's what's really happening there, I'm sure the managers wouldn't do anything about it because this guy does half the volume of that dealership.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Unfortunately it's the way of the world.
Interesting? What did you expect? I think the "way of the world" is more generally aligned with an attitude of fair play. When you "advocate" a team member using unethical means to suppress the performance of his teammates you're going to be challenged.
I think the members here are in the fair play camp and have little patience for slick operators.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Yes, I am his uncle, he reported that he found you to be a
bit of a nuisancefascinating human being, and having read your account I can see why. He's a decent guy at heart, I hope you remember him next year if you do end up buying a 4-Runner.As for "team members" taking work away from other team members? C'mon if it was a team effort then they would be salaried workers and not paid commissions at all. Any business that is setup where commissions are at stake as part of your job, be it car dealers, gold traders, stock brokers, etc. you will find folks doing whatever it takes to get the job done and put food on the table for their kids and family.
Tipping originally was done BEFORE the service was rendered "To Insure Promptness" is where TIP is derived from, so technically you should TIP before the service is provided and a Tip is for someone going above and beyond what is needed of them, like the receptionist that throws you some extra folks, etc.
Car Dealers, Stock Brokers, etc all are pretty sleazy and non-upfront people, just the nature of the business, so it doesn't suprise me that such practices take place.
Similarly in my biz if I have someone who helps me get my job done, I'm going to take em to lunch every now and again, or give em something above and beyond what I would normally do. It's all about relationships and networking, that's how you get the edge in this world.
As was stated this is 100% conjecture on our part about the salesman who is out in front. Maybe he's out pounding the pavement in his free time and that's why these people come in and ask for him. Maybe he has a lot of contacts and has networked over the years and can bring in the volume of customers he does. We simply don't know all the facts in this case and thus can't make an informed judgement on it.
-mike
I've stated before. I had a very brief (albeit very successful) sales career before I was charged with leading sales (and support and marketing) with my firm. While it's not car sales, there are plenty of obvious things that can be transferred.
A little bit of insight....sales people's first (and some say only) goal is to produce revenue. Short of doing anything that will get the SEC's attention, or someone getting arrested, producing revenue is the primary goal. Obviously, some sales are more complex than others, but the results have to be the same....the sale is made. Anyone who thinks differently is being naive.
Now, in this instance, you may not like the thought of "tipping" someone...a receptionist, the lot boy, service personnel, etc. It is a way to get more leads sent your way. My guess is, if you're using that as a tool to get to the top of the sales heap in your store, you're producing good revenue with good margins, it's not going to matter to management how you do it (legally, of course). I don't even believe it's unethical. For example, giving the customer a "kickback" to buy from you WOULD BE unethical.
In general, I find those that are the most creative in their sales roles usually are the most successful. Giving your receptionist some sort of reward to throw some "bones" your way is creative.
I doubt your colleagues, on the sales floor, are going to tell you they do it. It's their little secret. But, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut it's being done....whether you know it or not.
Do you really believe the top sales person at your store got there by just taking "ups"? Think again!
Well giving the best price though to a customer is kinda like a kickback.
Some dealers do a $50 referral for customers to send them more customers, and I bet they'll be sending them to their own salesman.
-mike
This should provide some insight: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/d14.html
Also:
The history of tipping
In 1972, George Foster, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at UC Berkeley, looked at the origins of words meaning "tip" or "gratuity" in several language. He found that, frequently, it evolved from 'drink money' -- supporting the idea that the practice began in eating establishments. Foster theorized that tipping started with a desire to avoid envy on the part of the server and to send the message that the server should have a drink at the customer's expense.
The origin of the word English word "tip" is less clear. One popular theory says it's is an acronym of "to insure promptness." Jesse Sheidlower, Principal Editor in North America for the Oxford English Dictionary, says that's wrong, because acronyms weren't popular in English until the 1920s. "'Tip," says Sheidlower, "began as a verb in the seventeenth century, used in the language of thieves, meaning 'to give'." By the early eighteenth century, the meaning included "to give a gratuity to a servant or employee".
(from: http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/07/pf/tipping/)
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you may not last all that long as a host here with an attitude like that.
We've heard story after story here about one sales person closing a customer when another could not. But, if you're keeping your leads flowing, more than the next guy, you're generally going to sell more.
moo relayed a story a while back about one of his sales people acosting other sales associates to get an "up". That's unethical (and probably would be considered assault).
But, knowing the receptionist's birthday (and giving him/her a b-day present) would be OK, right? Giving that same person a bottle of their favorite wine is OK, right? Recognizing over and above efforts by that same person for being helpful to you isn't any different. That can come in the form of cash, a b-day present or a bottle of wine.
I ask service personnel who their best sales person is, all the time. If I buy from that sales person, I tell them that they were recommended by the service person. Think I wouldn't be flipping the service person a "thank you" gift for that allowance? I would, in a heart beat...and then I'd tell them to keep the leads coming.
Sales people win awards all the time for stellar performance. Helping those that help you get there (by getting you more leads) is just good business. Sales isn't done in a vacuum.
Hmm what makes you say that? I can't take any payoffs here to let people keep posting! haaa
You guys in this topic are way way to serious! This is the internet, leisure time, supposed to be fun, light hearted. You guys are all doom and gloom here! haaaaa I guess I'll go back to the Motorsports Area, things are a bit lighter there! haaaa
-mike
moo relayed a story a while back about one of his sales people acosting other sales associates to get an "up". That's unethical (and probably would be considered assault).
But, knowing the receptionist's birthday (and giving him/her a b-day present) would be OK, right? Giving that same person a bottle of their favorite wine is OK, right? Recognizing over and above efforts by that same person for being helpful to you isn't any different. That can come in the form of cash, a b-day present or a bottle of wine.
Sales people win awards all the time for stellar performance. Helping those that help you get there (by getting you more leads) is just good business. Sales isn't done in a vacuum
Agree with you, I think we are on the same page here.
-mike
Sorry, I've been a user here before or at the same time as most hosts. I don't host this area and therefore, I'm posting my own opinions, is it wrong that hosts post? I would think you guys would want us involved in the discussions rather than just here to delete your posts when you step out of line etc.
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
Stay if you want, but you may want to tone it down. It's your choice. Maybe we are serious (to you) since so many of our posts are concerning our $$$$$. Is there anything wrong with that? IMHO, we do have fun! I can't wait to see jmonroe's and several other posts.
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host