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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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He did play a lot of golf. Are the people who own the stores generally like this, or was he ususual?
If he owned the place, I'll still give him kudos for passing out what looked to me like accurate auction data, presented in an entertaining way. Maybe he had a Jones for the internet.
The people who pretend to run the place where I work couldn't (or are afraid to) make anyone laugh, . . .as if they ever wanted to.
Either way, thanks for your continuing effort. I can't remember who started this thread, but he dropped out about the time Royce picked up -- you've picked up when Royce dropped out, as nearly as I can tell.
Esp if you have people to do the heavy lifting.
Some owners are very hands on, other not so much.
Terry always struck me more as a wholesaler w/ a resale license, rather than a full time, full service dealer.
some up's ask to drive a used taurus. MOO thinks, 'hey the sales manager showed me some love the other day, he can go on the test drive'.
he says to the sales manager, "my back really hurts, can you take the up's out for a ride?".
the sales manager gives him a look, but says ok. as he leaves his office, MOO says 'i think the car needs a jump and some gas. i'll keep your chair warm while you are gone'. sales manager greets the prospective buyers, and says 'give me a few minutes to get the car ready. take a look at this altima brochure while you are waiting'.
he then goes over to crazy sales guy and tells him, get the taurus a jump, put some gas in it, then go get MOO and throw him in the trunk!
on the test drive, he explains the banging from the back of the car as a thumping stereo and it is playing the popular song 'HELP! HELP! Let me out!'.
He closes the sale, based on the great stereo.
MOO, i hope your back feels better soon!
Proper exercise can help a lot too. I used to have lots of back issues but after doing the right types of exercises for the back its better than it was when I was little more than half my age.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One reason he could post so often is that he doesn't need a lot of sleep. Used to be, the first thing I'd do when I got up in the morning was fire up my computer, check on things at work, then look for Terry's latest musings. I'd usually get a good laugh and start my day out right. He'd post at 05:00 and 05:30, many times from hotel rooms near auctions that he flew to.
And that was at a time when he was supposed to be retired. I suspect he's one of those people that don't like sitting still for very long.
His blurb says:
..... I started in Auto Sales over 20 Yrs ago as a salesman and I guess I just got a little tired of working for someone else .. so I said - "self", time to move on ....... ............................... So anyway, I saved up a few bucks (and got a little lucky) and I bought into my first Dealership in 1990, then bought another ... and that was 7 stores ago. I travel to a lot of the Auctions between Florida, the mid-west and the Philly area --- I get to see a couple of thousand vehicles a week, at least ........................ If you have any questions, crazy stories, wacky thoughts, just ask or just email me on any other related items. I will be more than happy to respond .............................................. Terry.
His perspective was unique because he traveled so much and knew what colors worked where, when convertibles picked up in the NE again, how miles mattered less in CA where everyone "drives 50 miles for a latte" and all those little nuances that make a difference. I'd love to know what his actual accuracy was; my guess is about $400 each way on a normal car, maybe less. He's truly amazing.
Sorry for waxing sentimental here for a while, but it was great fun while it lasted.
To imply that volvomax lacks "flair" is as unkind as it is untrue. I tried on a few occasions to help out with valuations when I could pick them off of Manheim, and I found it's one heck of a time-consuming job. I think it's great that volvo steps up to the plate when he can.
Of course, wouldn't know from flair beyond the flareside pickups...
-Mathias
Guy kept coming in every few months, trying to do a deal on a Pilot. The negotiations didn't start until about a month before he bought, but he was in and out back and forth, test driving.
After some time I wrote him off as a flake, but kept giving him my time, and attention.
He ended up buying a Pilot and a Ridgeline all in one shot. So overall it was worth it.
He started his process all over again, coming in every two weeks, looking for a sporty car for his wife and himself, and another for his son. Since I know him fairly well, I just give him the keys and plates to any car on the lot, and tell him to test drive it for as long as he likes (reasonably few hours max).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Just as an example:
Somebody repalces the badge on the back of their BMW 325i with a 330i badge.
Somebody replaces the grille and wheels on their GMC Yukon to make it look like a DENALI (bad example, but you get the idea).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Finally bought the car in December of 2003...
Easily, 20 months....
Is this normal?
Only here...
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Of course, I did sell off a Ranger and a Deville before I replaced them with the Ridgeline.
Example: guy brings in a 01 Civic coupe that he wants to outright sell to us. The vehicle was from another province, so the accident check from our insurance company in BC won't show any accident history. The panels didn't align in some places which was very noticeable, and the paint on the quarter panel and the door was different shades (the Civic color was the weird orange Handa offered in 2001 or 2002).
On top of that there was a bucket of paint for the car in the trunk from the body shop. The customer tells us that it's his brother's car and he's selling it for him, and the paint was just to touch up a scratch.
I told him we're not interested in buying the car, and explained to him why. He insisted so I told him $2k (price we would have paid for a rebuild). Naturally he didn't take the offer.
Another instance was a girl who wanted to trade in her 92 BMW 3 series for a Civic. She bought the car from a family friend (who is a car broker) about 6 months prior. It was a grey market import from Japan. Black 3 series BMW with "M" badging on it, automatic. When writing down info on the appraisal form, she told me her car is a M3. I told her impossible because M3 sedans didn't come out until 1997. (I thought maybe they had an early version in Japan, but it seemed very unlikely). She insisted that it was an M3, so I wnet out to have a look.
There was no embroidery on the seats, there was no "M" lettering on the engine cover, in fact, there was no VIN number anywhere on the car. Not on the dash, not on the door jam, not under the hood. On top of that her registration read that it's a BMW 518i :surprise: . So not only this was an unknown model, but also had the wrong paperwork with it. I told her we don't want the car (because of all those things), and that she should walk, no, run, back to ther "family friend" and get this mess sorted out. And she paid about $10k for the car. The odo showed 35000kms (20k miles) or something ridiculously small like that.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Not sure but if all goes as planned I will not be buying a car for another 2-3 years. Yet I am doing a little research now just in case.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Somebody replaces the grille and wheels on their GMC Yukon to make it look like a DENALI (bad example, but you get the idea).
Not really, but we have made huge mistakes before that the buyer benefits from. Normally these are just from the looking at the wrong thing in the book.
On more then one occasion over the years we have looked at the wholesale for a 4X4 when the unit was a 4X2. There has also been times when trading for a car site unseen that the sales person gives a less then accurate description and we end up loading up in a sled. But as they say, there is an [non-permissible content removed] for every seat and we are usually able to get out, or it comes out of the sales persons commission.
When the folks get to my office they are asked to sign a trade disclosure, one of the questions is if your trade has ever been wrecked. They are asked this up front but some times they "accidently" forget about the damage till they are in my office and asked again, then asked to sign a document stating so, then they selective memory loss seems to end.
It had all of the badging and S wheels etc. but when you drove it you could tell it was a six cylinder and of course the VIN break and CARFAX came back as a six cylinder Cayenne.
I look forward to our meeting. Per the board, we shall video it and display our negotiation talents on YouTube. Would you flip a coin for the last couple of hundred dollars? I have a feeling you would.
-Moo
Did I go to school with you at Auburn?
Btw, thanks for all the well-wishes everyone. Bobst and snake actually made me feel a little better about the whole thing. I was worried and irritated about being so "young" and having back troubles. Good to know that it can improve.
Doc said it was a torn muscle and prescribed some pretty heavy duty drugs. It's a bit difficult to sell cars when you're drooling, but I'm in this morning. I'm going to work as much as I can.
Again, thanks for all the good vibes, I know they are helping. Also, I guarantee a story from today as the meds will surely produce something silly.
-Moo
If a catch in my own back had put me on the floor at your age, I would have had that all done. I'd be worried about damage that doesn't recover. My wife is currently scheduled to see a neurosurgeon about longtime back problems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Who am I to argue!?
If pain persists, I'll get back to him and we'll go down that line.
Thanks for the suggestions, though!
-Moo
I just I knew that I would like the lifestyle (traveling the country). I rented three units to 'get a feel' of what I would want, etc, etc.
So, on Tuesday, I will pick up my new 2008 Monaco Dynasty. YEAH! The serious research started about 3 months before purchase. Over the years, I went to every RV show that was in my area.
It's amazing what looks good on the outside and even on the inside but really are pieces of junk. If my budget was really limited, I would by the highest line used unit I could. Monaco custom-makes their Roadmaster chassis just for the use of a motorhome.
About Moo's back... I just did the same thing to mine. I COULD NOT MOVE! Nothing makes you feel old (48) to have to use a walker to go to the bathroom... and even then, I couldn't lift the walker. I COULD NOT put any weight on my back at all. So, lifting the walker was not going to happen. I had to tilt the walker forward and "walk it" to where I was going.
After an MRI... I have a herniated disk.. good drug and pelvic exercises seem to work but I still have a little numbness in my upper thigh... the next step is to get a needle injected into the disk to make it go back completely. Right now, I feel great and don't want that to happen ever again!
Mark156
As long as I get to bring the coin (I'll take heads)... sure thing.
P.S Drooling while on the job could be a good thing... get you that sympathy sale. Remember Cosmo Kramer?
I take it you have actually done this before. If so, I think I know where you may have gotten your training.
I posted on one of these boards a while back that I once had a dealer try this on me in the late 80’s. I had never heard of this tactic before so when he first suggested it I said NO. Then I had a thought; I said to the guy OK lets flip. If you win you get your price but if I win you sell at $300 less that what I’m offering (I’m pretty sure this was the number but I’m not positive now). We were off by $300 so I figured this was fair because I knew my number was doable. Guess what? He sold it to me at my price; he didn’t want to flip when he heard my final offer.
I guess I just had to let him know that I would only play this game on my terms.
Nice try but does it ever work? However, I wouldn’t blame you for wanting to try this on ‘jip’. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So if I run into a brick wall, we flip for it and both smile at the end. Just part of keeping the job fun.
-Moo
So if I run into a brick wall, we flip for it and both smile at the end. Just part of keeping the job fun.
I can understand you wanting more gross, that’s only natural for a sales guy. When gambling, I feel both sides should be on a level field. Another way of putting it is; both sides should have something to win or lose. Doing it your way is like gambling against a loaded deck, that’s why I like my way much better.
You definitely have all the fun but what about the buyer?
I’ll show mine if you’ll show yours.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So, I take it that you wouldn't want to GAMBLE with me. :surprise:
BTW, when did you first here of doing the "Flip Thing". Like I said before, until the late 80's it had never happened to me. And when I mentioned it to co-workers, family, friends etc. no one had ever heard of it. In fact, some of my co-workers accused me of bringing back a 'tall tale' from the negotiating table!!
For days after hearing this, whenever they saw me they would reach into there pocket, take out a coin and flip it but I got the last laugh. When I became there manager, at review time, I would take out a coin and say, "which one of these categories would you put yourself in"?
I guess I live in the back woods of Pittsburgh.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I love to gamble, just not with the houses money. I am always ready though for a poker game or a round of golf
BTW, when did you first here of doing the "Flip Thing".
I can rememebr the first time I saw it. It was in 1994 and I was a Green Pea, the MGR came out to my desk and asked the guy if he would flip for the $450 we were apart. He did and the customer won the flip. A flip of a coin cost me $157.50 my part
Good for you. As soon as he offered you that he was basically admitting that your price was doable. It would be a win-win for him and you wouldn't benefit at all from it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And all this while you thought my mother raised a dopey.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Then who did raise you?
Ducking and running.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Why are damages >$2000 considered a rebuild when $2000 these days isn't much?
A small bump costs over $2000 sometimes.
They have to get with the times.
Last thing we need is to buy-in a Civic with mismatched paint and panels, in a color that nobody wants to begin with. Easier to say no than to deal with neverending problems later.
As for cars with damages over $2k, we know that usually up to $5k damage is usually nothing too major.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Recently have spent a lot of time on Edmunds and some other sites researching cars. Am going to be retiring at the end of 2008 and will have to buy another car as my company car will, of course, be going away.
Have pretty much decided on a 4-Runner, but had never even sat in one of the newer models. Went to the SE PA dealership that where we have the wife's Toyota serviced on Saturday afternoon. Was dressed sort of Saturday afternoon ratty but was approached quickly enough. Told the salesman that I understand pretty much how their jobs worked (am in industrial sales myself) and just wanted a few minutes of their time to get a little information and possibly just SIT in a 4-runner for a few minutes.
The 1st thing he said was to tell me about the new Sequoia coming out next year. Told him it was far larger and more expensive than I needed and in any case I did not like to buy 1st year production of any manufacturer, and steered him back to the 4-runner. Asked him what type of options were generally on the 4-runners that they received and asked whether or not the dealership was amenable to a factory order as I could do this well ahead of the needed delivery date without difficulty.
Was told that this was not possible - "Nobody can do that - just have to choose from what comes in". Told him that I knew from research that it certainly was possible, but that I recognized that some dealerships did not want to deal with it. He changed his tune and said that "Well yes - it could be done but would take 4 months or so" which I already knew. The whole time we were talking his eyes were roving elsewhere and it was obvious to me that he wished I would just go away.
OK - here is the point. I was pretty ticked off at the treatment I received. This as a large Bucks County dealership that we have always perceived as being professional based upon our dealings with the service department, and I was upset enough at the salesman that I was ready to write a letter to the management detailing my experience. However I said to my wife that I felt that some of the responsibility for the experience was probably mine. After all I DID go there on a busy Saturday afternoon, and was honest (or stupid) enought to tell them upfront that the actual purchase was a year out. OTOH, I do feel that this man represented his dealership very poorly and that the owners deserve to know.
What do you think?
Having said that, your experience is not uncommon. I wouldn't worry about it or bother with the letter. I'd just move on and find someone else.
If you feel as if you want to return to this dealership, then I'd call the owner/general manager. Though the response given to you from that particular salesman is fairly typical... from what I've read. Mainly the part of being brushed off.
Happy Easter to all!
First problem, you came on a busy Saturday. This is the day when there are more customers than the salespeople can handle. If you are not buying TODAY they want to get on to the next customer as quickly as possible. Perhaps a visit on a quiet, cold rainy weekday when you are the only customer in the store will get you better treatment.
Second, you want to order your car. I've asked this question here several times and I still don't understand the logic. The sales people are quite consistent in their responses however, they don't like orders. They want to move what's on the lot. Part of it is they don't trust you to honor the deal and not buy somewhere else in the meantime. I also suspect that there may be some financial incentive within their community that they don't want to reveal. Perhaps there is some extra commission on off the lot sales.
Bottom line, a possible sale a year off doesn't even register on their radar.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I actually purposely dress down when I go to dealerships, just to see how they would treat me, usually I get the same thing as you, despite the fact that I could walk out with their most expensive car on the lot that same day.
Of course once they hear that I'm a Wall Street trader who just got a big bonus, their eyes light up and they start to salivate. By that time though they've already shot themselves in the foot and are SOL on a sale with me.
-mike
-mike
Go back there and sit in a 4-Runner. If you like it, ask if you can take a used one for a test drive. Since it will be a year and a half before you buy one, don't put miles on a brand new one.
As a car salesperson...this is something I really don't understand about other car salespeople. I wish people would ONLY factory order. Of my 15-20 sales a month, usually 5-6 of them are factory orders...and that number is growing! Why would I rather factory order? First thing...you get to get the customer exactly what they want and usually at today's price. There's no messing around with DXing (which is a royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed]), and when the car comes in, that's basically a freebie for that month that you don't have to worry about. Furthermore, a lot of times, while the customer is waiting for their vehicle to arrive, they're talking about the perfect car they just ordered to all their friends, and they're talking about you as the salesperson. Usually out of my 5-6 factory order sales a month, 3-4 of them are referrals from other people who are ALSO waiting for their car to arrive! If this pattern continues, over the next year or two, I'll be selling 25 factory orders a month, just to referrals. Who wouldn't like that??? Yes, it's true not everyone buys the car they order, however, 95% do!
But don't people who buy off the lot a lot of times are talking about the perfect car they just bought to all their friends, and they are talking about you as the salesperson?
Also don't you get a lot of referrals from people that have bought off the lot?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think that anticipatory buzz is lost on much of todays "I want it, and I want it now!" society.
Also don't you get a lot of referrals from people that have bought off the lot?
Yes...you get that too...however...the most you get of someone bubbling about their new car is a month or so. When you order their car you get them bubbling about their new car from the time they sign the deposit until the same month or so after! Which would you rather have, someone talking about the car they just bought for a month, or four months of them talking to all their friends about the car they're getting and just got?
Moreover - people who order tend to be very particular about their product, which indicates much higher level of enthusiasm for the purchase and much more thought. As such, they would be very vocal about anyone who was actually willing to listen to them at the dealers and say "No problem" rather than "Mister - nobody buys those manual transmission wagons - I have ten sedans with auto just waiting for you - and believe me it's what you want".
Isell loves to beat on people who are particular with color. I understand why, but there is nothing more turning off (at lest for me) than a salesman saying that whatever you feel or desire is not that important, or worse - your particular choices show some questionable judgment or intelligence however polite it might be said.
If there is a guy ou there, who is willing to simply say "Sir, I understand - unfortunately we don't have it, nor does any other guy in Florida, the closest there is now is no sunroof and different color, but factory order is not a problem - here is the offer and the papers and I'm SO HAPPY to take that order for you" - he is my guy.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Guy told me that he had sold Fords for "years".
Sort of my general feeling - but others feel differently.
A certain part of me agrees with you as I noted in the original post. I suspect that I would have been happier if he would have politely said just that.
"Second, you want to order your car. ...the lot sales."
You may well be right.
"Bottom line, a possible sale a year off doesn't even register on their radar."
I suspect that you are right about this also - BUT I'm sure that it would register on the owner's radar