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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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That horrible, ruined marketplace just happens to be the number one market for cars and trucks in the world. It is also, in large degree, the trendsetter of automotive style and automotive practices.
I suspect what you don't like is that the market sets prices and quasi-monopolistic dealer networks can't influence and dictate price in the SoCal market. If there are too many Lexus (or any other make) dealers in the SoCal market then let them come and go with the business cycle just like any other business. The same goes for someone trying to get into a sales career in SoCal. If there is a marketplace for his skills then he will be rewarded per the market. Otherwise he/she should find something else to do.
It looks like there is yet another guy who can fall in love with another piece of sheetmetal if the cost and experience is not worth the asking price to that guy. :surprise:
It's definitely nice work if you can get it and so far, for Lexus, they're getting it. So good for them.
I know two other people who felt the same way, one bought a BMW and one bought an Infinity. Both could have well afforded the price of the Lexus but wouldn't allow themselves to be taken advantage of. Can you believe that?
The thing that really bugged them was the attitude at the Lexus stores (two different ones). Maybe Lexus provides dealership training when you get a franchise.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Is there something about your personality you're not disclosing to us? :P
It is also the area that cause you to need a piece of paper signed just to use the bathroom at the dealership.
Any state that needs a "Bill Of Rights" to go buy a car really needs a reality check.
There is not enough money in the world to get me to work F&I in that state. You get set up for failure on a one way street every day.
The sales people stand outside in a line waiting for an "up". They "call" their ups as they spot them..." White Pontiac"...THAT'S MY UP!!
In some stores, the salespeople aren't allowed inside the store unless they have a customer. If they let a customer go without turning them over to a "closer", they are fired on the spot! If one closer can't get the job done, they will bring in another one.
Turnover of sales people and management is constant.
" Trendsetter" ? I don't think so!
-Moo
How many stores did you work at while you were there? You're basically setting up anyone who reads these forums from SoCal to be extremely edgy when trying to buy a vehicle.
My brother bought one out there and did just fine. One vehicle out of many, but at least there is one decent story from a young guy buying a Ford pickup.
-Moo
What does that mean ? Is this some kind of left-handed joke ?
While a car-buyers "bill of rights" might seem unusual. It only developed after some un-seemly dealers and their tactics brought it on themselves. The bill-of-rights as I understand it lets:
1) a used car buyer may purchase a 2-day return option
2) defines clearly what a "certified used car" is and is-not
3) discloses what "add-on" items cost as a separate deal
4) limits loan interest rate markup to 2-2.5 %
Now what's so horrible about that.
you guys (or your friends) brought this legislation on yourself.
Amen. I'm still waiting for Florida to regulate the $499 "dealer" or "doc" fee.
It means that half of crap you have to get signed now days stems from something that happened in California.
While a car-buyers "bill of rights" might seem unusual. It only developed after some un-seemly dealers and their tactics brought it on themselves. The bill-of-rights as I understand it lets:
1) a used car buyer may purchase a 2-day return option
2) defines clearly what a "certified used car" is and is-not
3) discloses what "add-on" items cost as a separate deal
4) limits loan interest rate markup to 2-2.5 %
Now what's so horrible about that.
There is nothing wrong with it, its just the fact that you need one. What state is so weak as a whole that it needs the goverment to hold there hand to buy a car?
I have read the whole thing, and its not that big of a deal, as a matter of fact with people having to "buy" the right to have a 2 day return policy, and then the consumer has to pay a restocking fee if they bring it back it looks like extra money for the dealer.
I personaly am willing to take responsibilitie for my own actions and do not need the Goverment to hold my hand at every turn.
Here is a link to the whole thing for anyone interested
bill of rights
Maybe I do paint too dismal of a picture because there certainly are good stores in CA as well as the typical ones.
By typical, I mean the hard core liner-closer stores.
This is when asking family and friends for a referral can be so important. Avoid the places that run the full page screamer ads etc.
Ha! That reminds me of another point we usually follow regarding TV or radio ads: The louder the announcer's voice, the more we need to stay away!
He's not typically one for options, but I ultimately talked him into a 3s touring with moonroof/cd. They have those great 27-month lease deals going on now, so I did the math and told him this was the way to go. He could even buy it out in the end and still save money.
Anyway, to make it real short, we were handed off to the sales manager right away, although I'm not sure why as I had the impression the salesguy was quite experienced. We have his trade-in appraised and they actually offered $300 over its true value. OK. So far so good. I tell him we want the lease deal. Now, if you know about the current deals, we're talking around $2k down and $203/mo including taxes on a touring model. Granted, now we're dealing with the "s" and some extra options, so I know we're a few bucks off and should hit right around $210. Of course, he asks what payment we want ... so I say $190.
He comes back saying we would need to give the trade AND $2300 to get to $190. With just the trade, we're at $278. HUH??? So I go over the numbers, tell him the MF, residual, trade, blah, blah, blah. He looks like a deer in the headlights. Seriously does not know what to do with me. He asks how could I possibly know all of this. He says something must be wrong with my math, etc. Finally he relents and goes back to finance. He then comes back with a whole new sheet and says they accidentally ran a 23-month lease. We wound up right about where I figured in the first place.
After we signed everything and were about to drive off, the manager comes out to tell me how impressed he was and if I ever wanted a job, etc. I'm sure he was just shining me on. I found it pretty funny, though.
SO, question 1. Who the heck does a 23-month lease??? I never heard of such a thing.
2nd, would a sales manager REALLY not realize there was something wrong with those numbers? I mean, he fought me pretty hard for a while. It wasn't until I said we'd need to go home and run through the numbers again that he reluctantly went to double-check his. Can you really get to the level of manager and not be used to seeing numbers and knowing something is almost 25% off?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2nd, would a sales manager REALLY not realize there was something wrong with those numbers? I mean, he fought me pretty hard for a while. It wasn't until I said we'd need to go home and run through the numbers again that he reluctantly went to double-check his. Can you really get to the level of manager and not be used to seeing numbers and knowing something is almost 25% off?
Question 1: I don't know. Till now I didn't know people did 27 month leases
Question 2: Did he really know? I don't know that either. I would like to think it was a mistake, but you are dealing with a business who screwed up so bad in the past putting the screws to people that today they are not afforded the opportunity of making an honest mistake. We are guilty till proven innocent on all counts.
Some leasing sources allow odd terms...but as you know mazda is currently running 27 & 39 month terms...I'm not making an excuse for the guy just speculating...my guess is the guy running the numbers pushed the wrong term button and never double checked....on my lease screen the term is a tiny little number mixed in with a bunch of others so unless you look close its easy to make the mistake....I made a good one the other day, I was desking 6 deals at the sametime and I quoted the finance charge instead of the payment (.8% rate so there wasnt much finance charge)on one of them....payment was $560 and finance charge was $520.....We easily cleared it up but it was a simple mistake because I was doing to many things at once....Our dealer computer system (sameone used by most dealers) requires the user to manually input the numbers for a lease..including term, rate, residual etc...they arent just "pulled up" automatically..for $300K per year in computer click fees what would you expect, something automatic and menu driven? :P
Is there something about your personality you're not disclosing to us?
LOL!!!! That may very well be. Truth told, all of the dealerships I mentioned are owned by the same person.....Honda and Lexus stores (he also owns a local Toyota store). I had mentioned a while back that my late father was friends with the owner. I'm friends with the owner's daughter. The father is semi-retired, living in Florida. The daughter just so happens to oversee his dealerships (spread over 2 states). When I'm in the market for any of those brands, I give her a call. She "cuts me a deal" (usually a very small amount over invoice less holdback...it depends on the unit I'm looking at) and turns me over to one of the sales people/managers to complete the purchase.
I would imagine that I'm considered a "house sale" and little if any commission is paid on a sale to me. Most of the people at the dealerships know me because of my friendship. When they see me walk in the door, they know they're going to do some amount of work for little or no pay. For that fact alone, they don 't like working with me. Or, maybe it is my sparkling personality that turns them off.
When I was abandoned at the Lexus dealership, and relayed my experience earlier this week at the Honda store, my principal contact was out of town and I didn't have her to cut a deal and run interference for me. Consequently, I was treated poorly in both cases.
isell.....I don't think there's anything wrong with competition. If you've got the two Lexus stores I spoke about, who are owned by the same person, the competition for their product is really going to be non-existent.....thus, the higher margins. Some call that holding margins. I call it price fixing. If I were really interested in a Lexus, I'd probably have to abandon the dealerships in the Cincinnati area and go to Dayton, Columbus, or maybe even Lexington.
moo.....Acura makes a fine product. I just read a C&D review of the MDX. It won a comparison between some very stiff competition from LR, MB, Cadillac, VW. The MDX uses a similar engine and drivetrain as the RL. While the TL is also a good car, it's FWD only. There are inherent drawbacks to that. That's why I like the RL. It's AWD. At $50K it's a bit hard to swallow. At $40K-$41K, even $42K, it's much more pallatable. That's true considering you have to pay $36K to get the TL-S. Apparently, the majority of consumers feel the same way as you do. The RL is a slow seller, while the TL has done well.
From my limited experience, leases are always in 3-month increments. So 24, 27, 30, 33, etc. Making 23 a very very odd duck.
I should have finished the story by saying that, unlike the story i posted at the dodge dealer, we got to the F&I office and the numbers were right as promised and there was no pushing for spit shine or any garbage like that. Overall, a relatively pleasant experience.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
Good point. When we were doing allot of leasing are competitors would say that. Due to the fact that technically when you leave the dealer you only have 23 payments left because you make the 1st payment the day you lease it.
Eh, no big deal. I was just curious if there really was such a thing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Most sales people like "spoons" or house deals.
They do get paid a commission, usually a mini, but it counts as a sale.
Now, maybe the Lexus guys typically make more than the mini, but even they won't turn up their nose at an easy sale.
GG is getting dogged today for his personality. That makes me laugh.
-Moo
You could very well be right. It could be my personality. I don't mind a bit of "chit-chat" when buying a car, but mostly, it's a business transaction. I treat it as such. I do get frustrated when I ask for a purchase price, and they return from "the office" with a payment schedule. I do get frustrated when I ask for a 36 month finance price and they come back with a 36 month lease price. I do get frustrated when I make an appointment, and the sales or finance guy keeps me waiting...sometimes for an extended time.
In short, I want to do a deal quickly. I know what I'm willing to pay. It's an easy decision on their part. Either they can do it, or they can't. Please don't waste my time (or theirs) trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Maybe that comes across in my demeanor. I think of myself as personable. I don't shout. I don't insult. I don't demand. What's not to like? I'm easy-peasy when dealing on a car. If a dealer does what they say they're going to do, I will certainly do what I say I'm going to do.
Most dealers welcome me. They know I'm an easy sale (just not the most profitable one). Odds are, if I walk into the showroom, there's a good possibility I'm there to buy (for me or someone else).
I do have a hard time getting a deal with the dealerships I mentioned before unless I invoke the owner's name. I think they are a throwback, though. I don't fit into their typical "sales mold" of how they do business. They like to start with the sales person, then hand the customer off to the closer, and maybe even the sales manager to build the sale. I don't do that. That's another reason they probably don't like dealing with me.
Some dealerships (and customers) make it much harder than it has to be.
moo...yes, I am being "dogged" today. That's funny....especially coming from you. Pot meet kettle. :P :P :P
Which can come across wrongly to the salesperson.
We get alot of people who come in w/ a chip on their shoulders, after a while it does get old.
As for your local dealer, Lexus stores don't have liner-closer mentalities. They do however make profit, and so are unlikely to tolerate the typical invoice buyer.
They don't have to discount, if they can get away with not doing so.
It sounds like they can do so in their given market.
Yes, they may drive a few people out of their market, or even to other brands but in the end they get their fair share and make $$ doing it.
On the other hand, you "want to do a deal quickly. I know what I'm willing to pay."
Heck, if you know what you are willing to pay, why not just offer that amount and make it easy for everyone?
I have a very sarcastic approach to things and sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut....a lady came in the other night and stopped at the salesdesk to let me know how much she hates carpeople (mind you Ive never seen this woman b4 in my life)She was really snotty about it to...I just sorta stared at her for about 10 seconds and said thats ok I hate customers...she got a very puzzled look on her face and decided I might not be the one she should be whinning to..for some reason she still purchased the car. It's amazing what saving somebody $50 will do.
Why would you want to offer the amount you are willing to pay? I would first offer what I would want to pay, which would be quite a bit less than the "willing" to pay amount.
I love it. I feel like I've stepped into bizarro forum day.
Quick story about a couple of my ups today. I did sell 2 today, but I had a customer early in the day who wanted to check his options on lease purchase and a new vehicle.
Good credit, money down, only a little upside down in his current lease. He told me specific payments that he would do business at on each vehicle. I obviously want to sell a new car more than a lease purchase, so I tried my best to put him in a brand new vehicle. Wouldn't work. So I told him we would do his lease purchase. He tells me he has to think about his budget and let me know in the morning.
??? He tells me he'll do business today on the lease purchase at a specific number, but then says he needs to think about it. I'm missing something for sure. Can't figure it out. I supposedly have an appointment with him for Saturday. We'll see.
The folks I just finished up with. Brother and sister. Brother has '00 SE Pathfinder with Bose and roof. 138,000 miles. Catalytic converter is out and his price at our dealership is going to $1,500 worth of work. His vehicle is worth $4,000. And that's with my Used car manager being nice. He wants to be at no more than $400/mos on an '05 LE Pathfinder that I have. The price on that is $27,495.
I tell him before we start doing anything. Sir, you can't purchase that vehicle for the price per month you want to spend. I hate to take it away from you, but it just isn't possible. I did get an extremely nice '04 Murano that is completely loaded that we can get for you at that price. He drives it, likes it, but says he'd rather have the Pathfinder. I play along, but this is a waste of time if he's being honest with me.
All the numbers work out and we're 5k away from doing business after he says he'll put down 2k. His sister is telling me that we need to come down more on the price. Sister, does it matter if I do discount it more? We're 5k apart. We're on the wrong car. Well, we need to think about it.
.........
Frustrating day with these sorts of ups. She thinks he should go look at Jeeps because they have rebates.
It's just math folks. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, you need to change up what you're thinking. I don't pull these numbers out of a hat. When I try to save us both time by moving you away from vehicles you can't afford, please believe me and save us all a headache.
Pollen is so bad right now that I think my lungs have turned yellow. I can't see through my contacts because of the yellow tint.
-Moo
Its not now "how cheap can I get it" and it never was "whats it worth to me". The economic reality is that it is now and always has been a combination of the two. Its simple if "how cheap can I get it" is more than "What its worth to me" then the person doesn't buy it. If it is the opposite then it usually sells somewhere between the two price points.
Look at it this way, you are in the middle of a mall and you need to get product 'X' and its worth $50 to you. At one end of the mall you know there is a store selling it for $50 and on the other end you know there is a store selling it for $40, where do you go? You go to the store selling it for $40.
And since I am going... A lot of other places make a lot more money on you than car dealerships. Starbucks anyone?
Lets face it the typical Starbucks has to sell an awful lot of coffee to make the same gross profit that the average dealership makes in one car sale.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My guess is that if you look long enough and hard enough and ask enough people you could find a lease for any number of months you want.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But they will do it with a lot more traffic and a dramatically reduced overhead. Many fast food outlets are more profitable in total dollars than many car dealerships.
So just put him in one of those 7 year car loans. If his trade is worth $4k and you sell him the 05' for $23.5k net ($23.5k = $27.5 - $4k) then do a 7 year loan on $23.5k at 9%.
I get a payment of $378/month.
What's the big problem ?
And they say car dealers make the transaction more difficult?
Something like
Mr jlawrence01, I have what I think is a great deal here. We will trade for $14350 OTD. I need your signature by the X please and I will have you out of here in 45 minutes.
Then I shut up, I don't speak again till the customer does. I will leave the office if I have to. All along we have been going with the customer, at first offer it is time to start taking control of the sale. unless you have a very, very good negotiator with you this is never a problem, you know within 30 seconds of giving the offer. You can also tell real quick if from there they are just jacking you for a few extra bucks or if you are truly still apart.
I get a payment of $378/month.
What's the big problem ?
People like snake castigate you for not having your customers best interests at heart. :P
If you actually knew what the typical car dealership made per car, you would rather have the Starbucks franchise.
I would bet anything that a Starbucks grosses more in a week then we do. Not even counting there online sales
What exactly is a "lease purchase"?
Is Nissan running some kind of special program or something?
For me, it's either a lease or it's a purchase.
Go to a mall sometime and look at some of the smaller stores. Most of them only do a few thousand in sales on a daily basis. Many only make a profit because of the holidays.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Perhaps there is a business opportunity here. Starbucks and Lexus. Don't spill your frappe' though on that test drive !
Alternately, since car buyers tend to be a nervous bunch maybe some alcoholic beverages would calm everybody down.
Wouldn't you rather have a frosty cold one when you test out that luxury SUV ?
I would give you some links but they would go to dealer sites. Just google ford dealer starbucks and you will hit several of them. Some full service and some that just offer the brand coffe
GG: That's it!! The next time you go to that Lexus or Honda dealer, wearing your hockey mask (or whatever it is that scares the sales staff away from you), just bring along a 6-pack of Bud Light with you! :P
(Sorry... couldn't resist on Bizarro Forum day.)
Hey thanks for the tip !
Now I know how to go onto the lot and "just look"
beter yet, when they come back at you with the "If I could get X, would you buy the car today ?" well just slip on the hocky mask.