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Well then, if you keep that analogy about battery swaps/propane tank swaps, you'll have to look at your $10,000 EV batteries as worth the same as a $25 tank, and just as carelessly traded off.
I wouldn't think of it as owning the battery. All batteries will be refurbished and refilled and they will be all kept to a high standard. If they aren't then that person will be tracked down and charged . Batteries will basically be sealed. You are kind of like leasing or renting the battery. If you want to keep the same battery, you can do that, but you will have to wait around until it is fully charged. When you buy your car you may just be leasing the battery....not actually owning it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That was hilarious! And then John Wayne's real name was Marion.......go figure.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Malaysian Plane Disappearance
After one week and numerous false leads the search site has expanded to 2,200 square miles. Can anyone speculate on what really happened? Pilot suicide, catastrophic failure, terrorism, or perhaps a "Bermuda Triangle" like vortex?
The news media mentioned that ordinary citizens can also do a satellite search. Is it Google Earth or some other service? BTW, does anyone have a link to that site?
Again, may the departed souls of those perished rest in eternal peace.
"I wouldn't think of it as owning the battery. All batteries will be refurbished and refilled and they will be all kept to a high standard. If they aren't then that person will be tracked down and charged . Batteries will basically be sealed."
Tesla is supposed to provide a battery replacement and/or a full charge at charging stations along interstates. The range of a fully charged battery is supposed to be 300+ miles.
I have an appointment next week for an extended demo ride and will be asking these very questions. The demo drive is 35 minutes long; presentation just before the drive for 15 minutes; the post-demo-drive extended presentation runs 30 minutes for Q&A.
They also provide a relatively easy-to-understand manual.
2021 Genesis G90
>
Mike, I for one will be looking forward to your review. I mentioned that I talked to a guy who has a Tesla and he loves it. He has owned many luxury cars but he thinks the Tesla is the best.
He likes it because it is very quiet, the interior, the comfort, the reliability bedause few things can go wrong. I did ask him if the air conditioner was efficient and he said that wasn't as strong as in a regular car - might be something to ask about for a Floridian.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have had personal experience with Monro Muffler, and can attest that they are some of the shadiest repair shops I've ever dealt with. Briefly, when my son had his Elantra, he was looking to get his brakes replaced. I checked the master cylinder and the brake lines....they were all fine. I drove his car, and removed one of the wheels. He had some pads left, but the "squeaky wear indicators" made themselves heard. To be on the safe side I told him to get some quotes to get the brake pads replaced.
An hour later, my son calls me and tells me that the "free" brake inspection at Monro wasn't free at all. They said he needed new brakes, rotors, master cylinder and brake lines, to the tune of $1,800. I told him to just get his car back and that he should get another quote.
Well, they wouldn't take his car off the rack, stating it was too dangerous to do so, and to let him drive away.
I don't think he was any more than 19 at the time and really had no idea what to do.
I went to the shop and did everything except throttle the shop "manager" for trying to take advantage of my son. I actually had to call the police and report the shop for "stealing" my son's car before they'd put the wheels back on and get the car off the rack.
I will say that any customers they had in their shop that day made skid marks out of their wiating room, with their cars.
Made a report to their HQ, the Regional Manager, BBB, but of course, I never received a reply.
Will the batteries be subject to regular updates? Will they be susceptible to the blue screen of death? All like the Microsoftware Gates claims we are actually renting but don't own... :grin
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LOL. Well, Tesla is collaborating with Apple, so no blue screen of death. It looks like Ford is becoming more wise in that regard and dumping Microsoft in the near future
Tesla does regularly remotely update vehicles' firmware, so I would expect the battery interface would be no different.
Tesla and Apple are possibly in discussions regarding Tesla's gigabit battery factory. I presume Apple is interested in buying batteries.
Ford isn't dumping MSFT. They are in discussions with multiple OS developers on the next generation of Sync. Blackberry's QNX OS is one of the platforms being considered. Remember that Microsoft didn't create Sync or MyFord Touch. They supplied the OS.
For all of us Apple fans, the latest iOS update (as of yesterday, I think) includes all the functionality that iOS enabled cars can use off an iPhone (at least 4s) and iPad. Don't know of any cars that are enabled yet. But, if I were a betting man, you may see a lot of manufacturers utilize the Apple car functions and UI rather than develop them in house.
Robr, the OS is not meeting expectations. Perhaps you have insider info I don't, but here's what the press is stating:
Why_Ford_is_dumping_Microsoft_for_Blackberry_s_QNX_OS
Edit: I did a little more research and saw Ford hasn't confirmed the move. Many articles state Ford is dumping MS, but Ford has not confirmed they are doing so and that Blackberry is the new OS.
Like I said in a previous post, I don’t have my original tank anymore that came with the grill I bought in 1997 because I turned it in at Lowes for one of those Rhino exchange tanks last Summer. About 2 years before that when I went to the place where I always got refills, I had this conversation with the guy who was going to fill the tank:
Guy: This tank is more than 10 years old. I’m not supposed to refill it when they are this old (he shows me the stamp on the tank) but it’s in very good shape so I’ll fill it for you anyway”.
As he’s filling the tank.
Guy: How have you taken such good care of it this long. There’s only a little bit of rust on it and that’s on the very bottom. None on any of the tanks surface.
Me: Since it’s made out of steel and sits outside all the time I wax it every Spring.
Guy: Are you serious?
Me: As a heart attack.
Guy: I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.
Me: I said again about it being made of steel and just like my cars I wax it.
The guy looks over at the Genny and commented about how nice it looked. Then we had a little conversation about cars.
I had that tank filled at that place several times after that by different guys and I never heard any of them say anything about the tanks age.
When I went to Lowes to get the exchange tank I asked the guy about the date on my tank to make sure I could trade it in and he said not to worry about it; the refill place would handle that. OK, at least I asked. You better believe before I put it in the car the first thing I looked for was the date stamped on the tank. The tank I got was only 2 years old. I couldn’t help thinking about what they did with my out of date tank.
I pass this on so you guys don’t get exchange tanks that should have been taken out of service.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You aren't going to get a 300+ range out of Tesla batteries in any kind of normal driving--that's not going to happen. And in winter with all accessories on, it's going to be considerably less.
It's not a question of whether someone anecdotally "likes" their car (what's not to like?)--it's a question of whether selling every car you make at a loss is a sound business model.
Perhaps you missed these financial metrics:
Tesla's 2013 Fourth-quarter gross margin was at 25 percent, but the automaker predicts that it will reach 28 percent for 2014. That easily trumps Ford's 15.5% gross profit margin and General Motors' 12%. Is Tesla overly optimistic?
"Tesla Motors' financial earnings report for the fourth quarter 2013 was music to investors' ears as its loss shrank significantly and profits beat expectations.
According to The Wall Street Journal, Tesla reported a profit of $46 million (33 cents a share), which beat analyst forecasts of 21 cents a share.
Tesla's fourth-quarter loss decreased to $16.2 million, which is much slimmer than the $90 million loss a year earlier.
More good news is that Tesla's vehicle sales rose to $610.9 million from $294.4 million a year ago. The Palo Alto, California automaker said it delivered 6,900 Model S electric cars globally in Q4.
Tesla sees Model S deliveries increasing to 7,400 in the first quarter, and hitting 35,000 total for 2014. This represents a 55 percent increase from 2013's overall sales. " http://www.dailytech.com/Tesla+Motors+Reports+HigherThanExpected+Q4+Earnings+Slims+Loss/article34360.htm
Tesla isn't making money from selling cars, however. That's taxpayer money. It's a very slick card trick at this point.
It doesn't matter...if they are smart enough to make a profit while losing money making cars they are survivors.......and they are expected to be profitable at making cars in the near future.
Teslas will go over 200 miles on a charge. Improvements will come - the world doesn't stand still - and battery swapping may just be the answer. In fact, think of it, not only will they make money from selling vehicles, they'll make money on the fuel source. BRILLIANT
This is a very good article entitled
Car Dealers Are Terrified of Tesla’s Plan to Eliminate Oil Changes
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't pay much attention to Musk's pixie dust (which I must admit, is some of the purest dust on the street right now, and it gives you quite a high). I pay more attention, in my own amateur/investor way, to things like the fact that 37% of all Tesla stockholders are in a short position---so basically 1 of 3 publicly held stockholders are hoping that Teslas continue to catch fire.
Don't get me wrong--I think it's a fine car. Just not a good investment.
Just read a news report Telsla cars are now banned from dealerships selling them in New jersey due to state regulations.. This would be the 3rd state to do this to the company.
Tesla Banned From Selling Cars In New Jersey
| by BRUCE SHIPKOWSKI
Posted: 03/12/2014 9:17 am EDT Updated: 03/12/2014 9:59
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — State motor vehicle officials have approved a regulation that would require all new car dealers to obtain franchise agreements to receive state licenses, a move critics say will hurt the electric-car industry's attempts to expand.
The regulation, adopted Tuesday by the state's Motor Vehicle Commission by a 6-0 vote, effectively prohibits companies from using a direct-sales model, which cuts out the middleman and takes vehicles directly to customers through smaller retail establishments. It will take effect April 1.
The regulation was supported by the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers, which has noted that state law has long required automakers to sell their vehicles through dealers.
But Palo Alto, Calif.-based Tesla Motors, one of the electric-car companies that would be affected by it, called it "an affront to the very concept of a free market."
Tesla said in a statement posted on its corporate website that it has been "working constructively" with the commission and Republican Gov. Chris Christie's administration since last year to delay the proposal so it could be handled through "a fair process" in the state Legislature. The company said the commission and the Christie administration went "beyond their authority to implement the state's laws at the behest of a special interest group looking to protect its monopoly at the expense of New Jersey consumers."
Administration officials disputed Tesla's claims.
"Since Tesla first began operating in New Jersey one year ago, it was made clear that the company would need to engage the Legislature on a bill to establish their new direct-sales operations under New Jersey law," spokesman Kevin Roberts said. "This administration does not find it appropriate to unilaterally change the way cars are sold in New Jersey without legislation, and Tesla has been aware of this position since the beginning."
Tesla has two retail locations in New Jersey and has planned to expand in the state in an effort to sell its electric cars, which retail for around $60,000 before incentive
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
It's hard to predict the future in the stock market. As for history, well, I sure wish I bought Tesla at less than $50 a share one year ago and sold it for $230 a share today. It's been a good investment for some people.
it's been a good BET for some people...it was never a good investment by any sober calculation.
Even Warren Buffett bet $11 billion on IBM in 2011--I bet he's sorry. And HE thinks about these things before he pulls a trigger.
But...Hey, if you have the guts for this sort of thing, more electric power to ya' !
Oh, the old "free market" pitch. As if Tesla is operating in a free market? With tax credits and emission credits? I don't THINK so.....more of that awesome pixie dust.
If Musk thinks that Toyota isn't moving a 1000 ton block of concrete over his head as we speak, think again....
I have sat in one at the retail location near me but haven't driven one. Not that I haven't had the opportunity to do so, I have gotten a few invites but none really convenient. But I would love to drive one some day.
On a related note I did have the opportunity to drive Fords Electric Focus. I was really impressed with it, so smooth and so quite.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What's the range on the EV Focus?
IIRC it's around 80 miles, not the best out there but far from the worse. For me just commuting to and from work I would need to recharge every three days.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But, why do car dealers need to have dealerships? That sounds very un-American. What exactly constitutes "a dealership" anyway. I hope Tesla finds a way around that one...that just doesn't make sense. Whether they get breaks or not, play the handout game or not...they use the rules to their advantage and that is fair.....what is the logical reason for needing a dealership?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Dealership franchises were created by the automakers themselves, as a way to distribute (unload if you will) and market their inventory. Nothing worse for someone like Ford to pile up inventory and have to store and protect it.
For a toy car company like Tesla, this might not matter at all, but for the big boys it sure does. Tesla could easily spoon out its 21,000 vehicles a year, but Ford's 2,493,918?
I'd like to see Tesla direct-sell and service 2 million cars without dealers--then I'd be a believer.
I noticed a couple the long term review Tesla's have had their drive train replaced.
Of course these cars get pushed beyond what most owners will do.
The logical reason is to sell cars. The issue with this is who owns the dealership. States have greatly limited the ability for a manufacture to own a retail location that sells cars.The big benefit with dealerships being independently owned is that a manufacturer can expand it's distribution channels with little investment as the dealership owner pays the set up of the dealership and the expenses in running it. Also if the dealerships were all owned by the manufacturers then it opens up a greater possibility of price fixing. Fewer players makes it easier for those players to get together and fix prices.
On the other hand it is estimated that the current dealership set up with independently owned dealerships can add up to 10% to the price of a car.
As for Tesla, right now with the volume that they are selling it doesn't make much sense to have a traditional dealership network.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It is my understanding that Teslas business plan does call for a dealership network once certain sales numbers are reached.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
yes that makes sense of course. At 21,500 units a year, Tesla could sell cars door to door. I think they do this in Japan, or used to.
By your definition Shift EVERY investment is a bet. Some with more risk than others. Taxes and death are your only guarantees in this world.
One thing I've witnessed over and over is the technology adoption lifecycle holds true for disruptive technology. There will be innovators who embrace technology advancement and accept risk, cost, and some inconvenience to do so. There will be laggards who wait until the technology is fully mature and its growth on significant decline. Between those two you have the early adopters, early majority, and late majority forming the heart of the bell shaped adoption curve. I truly believe Tesla represents disruptive change. Some of us will adopt earlier than others, and that's just fine. Not everyone is comfortable being an innovator or early adopter with certain change/technology.
Or it could be a technology dead end, like a Blackberry or (perhaps) Google Glass. Technology also has a historical record of destroying itself. It's not all up and up forever, and sometimes not "up" at all. I don't see how an EV itself can be "disruptive"--it's as old as the hills and is really only a different propulsion for a device we are all quite used to. A Tesla in terms of concept and use, is no different than a 1935 Chevrolet.
Now Musk himself might be "disruptive" but only in the sense say of Branson and Virgin Airlines. He might disrupt a business but the effect of his product on society will be barely a ripple. Branson's airplanes don't go 5,000 miles an hour. They fly at the same speed planes did 40 years ago.
An electric car with 200+ mile range utilizing a battery that has the potential to be swapped in half the time of filling a tank of gasoline, which can be recharged at home or at a Tesla charging station in little time, and sold through direct sales channels is highly disruptive. We're talking the potential obsolescence of gas stations, auto dealers, and most service stations. This is huge and I applaud the change.
Gasoline cars weren't all that different than horse and buggy in concept and use not that long ago. Remind me, how many buggies were sold last year?
sure wish I bought Tesla at less than $50 a share one year ago and sold it for $230 a share today. It's been a good investment for some people.
Usually those high flyers come crashing down at some point. You have to be very lucky to time things right. I remember a few years ago Krispy Kreme Doughnuts was like that. Went through the roof then crashed. Plug Power was even worse, went from $10 to over $120 before crashing back to pennies.
You'd be better off taking your money to the track.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Amen. The big boys in Wall Street manipulate the news and the stocks. If a stock appears to be up and coming, they already have heavily invested. When Time magazine (NY Times) and the network talking heads say a stock is a good investment, that means you invest in it to hold the price while they sell their early purchases for good gains.
It's not a market for the uninformed. I figured that out decades ago when my advisor at a Cincy firm said he started recommending a stock I had purchased based on reading several nvestment inewsletters regularly at the library. Wow. A broker learning from me!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can't get the link to work, but according to it, Studebaker produced an electric car in 1902 that could travel up to 40 miles at 13 mph. They produced electric cars for about 10 years.
Electricity has to come from somewhere, so I think electric cars will continue to be a boutique item unless there is some breakthrough in power generation.
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If Tesla wants to reinvent the wheel why should they be made to play on the same field as the established boys. Would you say amazon is unfair because they found a way to sell goods without a brick and mortar store? Is it unfair for Walmart to get goods made in China so they can offer stuff cheaper?
Regular car manufacturers use a dealer network to cover as much area as possible....then dealers realized they could make even more money by servicing those same cars. Tesla won't need a full service dealership because their cars won't need service...they just need a shop location...why should they be penalized.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you are bored or lonely this could provide hours of entertainment. It answers the question, "What happens to old cars that even old farmer no longer drives".
The Car Grinder
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know we had a coffee discussion a few days ago. You'll hate me, but I drink a few cups of instant coffee on the weekends. During the week, I drink a couple of cups from the single serving coffee machine at work.
This morning I went to make my second cup and the burner I wanted to use on our glass top stove didn't heat up.
Looked at a couple of repair videos on youtube. First one, the guy opens the range top and the whole repair goes out of the view of the camera
Second one was a nine months pregnant lady replacing the burner element. That pretty much shamed me into ordering the part and I will replace the element myself.
Looks pretty easy. 4 screws and 5 wires.
Loving this discussion. TESLA isn't going to exist as an entity like Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, etc. It has taken multiple decades for those companies to take on the form they have today. Along the way there were failures, consolidations, bailouts, etc, etc.
TESLA is giving pushback to the status quo. They're challenging the way car manufacturers sell cars, how they store inventory, even how they make and propel their vehicles.
I suspect the traditional dealer network could be the biggest casualty in all of this. I'm not so certain the "regular" car manufacturers aren't at least slightly rooting for TESLA to break the franchise choke they themselves created. Between financing inventory, to kickbacks, to training, to overseeing, etc. the dealer channel, it isn't exactly the most efficient, nor the least expensive way to sell cars. Served it's purpose, but now, I'm not so sure. Just to close down a dealer channel (like Pontiac, or Plymouth, or Mercury) is a huge expense.
Add to that, particularly with electric cars, any maintenance that the dealers offered would be next to nill. Heck, a "Quick Lube" place would be able to replace a battery pack.
All it would take is one state to allow TESLA to sell directly, and the rest, over time, would follow.....especially if there would be some sort of factory store that would slide right into the franchisees place to pay taxes.
The consumer has been asking for this for years. No one likes the current way of business to buy a car. We've heard time and again how it's becoming increasingly difficult to make money selling cars. The days of "smoke and mirrors" pricing are going away, if they haven't already.
Will TESLA survive? Not sure. I think some of what they've developed will....battery tech, electrics for the masses, maybe even the way we buy cars. Fact is, Ford, GM, Honda...any of them could do what TESLA has done. They could do it quicker, cheaper, and probably put out a better product....IF THEY WANTED TO.
My guess is they'll let TESLA take the upfront "knocks", and then enter the market. The first step is to peel away the current state franchise laws, though.
Is it the heater or could it be the control knob portion?
I've always wondered how the diagnosis worked on those. We have one and, knock on wood, it's been perfect. Of course it's a Maytag :grin. The dots on the glass have popped off so some burner areas don't look pretty like when it was new.
Take a look on this applianceblog for your stove. Someone else may have asked a similar question for diagnosis help. I joined for $5 long ago, lifetime ability to ask questions. The main blog covers all kinds.
There are other sources for the service manuals for repair of many things. I'll look up that link when I can later in the day. We're off to Columbus to visit my son.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I had the same problem with our Kenmore when it was about 3 years old. I called Sears and ordered the burner. It was the dual burner that you can use the small burner in the center or both the small one and the large outer one at the same time.
The guy I talked to knew exactly what I wanted. He said he had the exact same stove and he knew about it being a dual burner. Of course when it arrived it was the wrong one.
Then I called a local appliance repair guy. He said it looked like the burner was bad, but he said he would replace the wire running to the power source. It worked - for a while. A day or so later it stopped working. I went to a local electric supply store and told them my story. They sell a special high temperature wire for ranges. The repair guy used regular wire.
I bought a foot of the wire (only needed about 4 inches) and the corresponding ends. It's been working fine now for over two years.
The moral of the story - open it up and have a look. It might just be a wire. I always try the easiest solution first.
2020 Ascent Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
@imidaazol97
Good thought, so I checked. There are 2 sets of lights tied to the burner knobs. 1 set for each bank(left/right) and another set tied to each burner.
These are functioning normally.
Sorry for the long post but here goes...
Speaking of Tesla’s Model S, I could not help but notice the inefficient use of electric propulsion in the 2014 McLaren P1. According to Automobile Magazine the McLaren hybrid “can run on pure electricity for up to 6.8 miles, or up to 120 mph, whichever comes first. An on-board charger can recharge the 3.9-kWh lithium iron phosphate battery, which is tucked into the rear cowl, in two hours flat at 240 volts.” http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1403-2014-mclaren-p1-review/#ixzz2w2hdqmkM
And that’s what makes Tesla’s contribution to the BEV so compelling with a range of over 265 miles on one charge and at a price of less than $90K to boot. Many remarked on the need to bring the price of a Tesla to under $35,000 to reach mass market appeal but that would be a big mistake. Most buyers equate high price to high quality and prestige. A $30K Tesla would tarnish and dilute the brand image and not to mention a losing proposition on the income statement and resulting share price.
Some time ago, I mentioned that luxury brands make up only 5% of sales but over 50% of auto manufacturers’ profits. With quick charging and battery swapping stations Tesla has removed all of the objections one may have to buying an all electric car.
Naturally, dealers would like to get their hands on Tesla’s potentially lucrative business but they add nothing to the value chain. In Massachusetts, at one time dealers had a monopoly on servicing new automobiles under warranty. But the practice is no more since the voters demanded change. And now, you can take your car to any repair shop or service station and be rest assured that these repairs are covered by the manufacturer’s warranty.
So using Massachusetts as an example it won’t be long before New Jersey, Texas, et al recapitulate and allow Tesla to sell its cars directly to the final consumer.
Technology like a Blackberry wasn't a dead end, just look at all the Smart phones out there. The technology evolved and moved ahead, it's just that Blackberry didn't keep up with it.
As for Google Glass the technology will progress and likely will take a different form.
It's the propulsion that is disruptive. It's quite and has a flat power curve plus for 90% of the people 90% of the time there is no side trip to refuel.
Yes and an F-18 in terms of concept and use is no different than a Sopwith Camel but given a choice which one would you want to take into combat?
I am not to sure about that, with more companies bringing out EV's Tesla with the first long range car will be viewed as an innovator.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Detroit electric had one that they advertised as going 80 miles with top speeds of 20 MPH back in the 1910's. Some people reported getting as many as 200 miles on a single charge with one.
I do believe that it is more efficient to generate the electricity in large power plants for electricity for cars than to run cars on gasoline.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Then car dealers should not worry and pull all their political power to stop Tesla. Yet they do exactly that.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Yep I have saved a lot of cash looking up how to repair household items on the internet. Once the dryer went out and she who must be obeyed called a repairmen who quoted something like a minimum of $150 just to come out and look at it. With about 15-20 minutes of internet research a 15 minute trip to the appliance parts place and 25 minutes of work replacing a $40 part and the dryer works like new.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One day perhaps, but not quite just yet. When equation of energy storage, price, range and portability equation is solved, then it will be so. So far the energy stored in gasoline has better overall package for individual transportation than any battery can offer. It may change, but not today.
2018 430i Gran Coupe